Originally posted by ennymith Never underestimate the lazyness of MMO players.Unrealistic looking for group requirements show up almost like clockwork.There will still be a precieved requirement for several top damage dealers and one or two good support classes. Thieves, Necro, Mesmer, and Engis will be the least popular. Warriors, Ele's, Guardians and Rangers should have no problems.Players are lazy. Why depend on some Rube Goldberg series of combos/team work, when several DDers and strong support classes can do it with the least fuss?I have seen plenty of MMOs with the trinity, where players can still beat dungeons without the trinity, if they are all skilled and work as a team, however that is always an exception. Most of the time players prefer what gets the job done with the least effort, which is usually some class combination that time has shown to be the min-max solution.
+1- and there will no doubt be parsers eventually regardless of whether Anet is okay with it. So regardless of the changes Anet has brought to the traditional roles of the genre it's not going to affect the laziness that is omnipresent if you're PUGing. Sadly not everyone has a pre-made group of besties ready to go.
Originally posted by donpopuki Only time will tell. Areananet has made many promises but it won't be completely apprant until the game has been out a few months. My hunch is to watch the guardian. Guardain seems too traditonal tanky. But until we see how it all fits together it's too early to make a call.
Do you believe the devs can control who players choose to exclude from grouping?
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what
it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience
because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in
the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you
playing an MMORPG?"
You can complete every single dungeon in the game by using 5 of the same classes (5 thief, 5 ele, etc.).
Not sure you understand the OP's post.
Although, they can be completed with all of the same class. As the OP stated, some classes tend to lend themselves better to situations/roles than others and, therefore, become the "preferred" class makeup.At that point elitist jerks and lazy people bar class/role makeups that don't fit the "mold". Will it happen in GW2? Simple answer.. Yes. Should it? No.
Everyone keeps blaming theorycrafters, elitist jerks, or just plain ignorance on why people are more inclined to attempt to optimize their group instead of just grabbing whomever - when the game mechanics allow you to complete the content with whomever.
In reality, Time is most likely the true driving force behind group optimization:
Ultimate Online was released in 1997.
Everquest was released in 1999.
World of Warcraft was released in 2004.
On average, most MMO enthusiasts have been around the genre for about 10 years. Whereas a large number of us were in our 20's when we first got into MMOs, time has passed and we're now pushing into our early 30's.
On average, most of us are no longer in school and able to define our own schedules. On average, most of us are no longer working at a coffee shop or Walmart and have excessive free time.
The reality is that the playerbase has grown up, settled into a real job, been married and potentially had a few kids. The 20 something playerbase is the exception in this genre, not the norm. As such, Time... is the most important thing to us.
So - whereas theorycrafters, elitist jerks and ignorant people still do exist and drive the perception of elitist optimized group forming. The majority of the players simply realize they have a limited amount of time to play, and as such are more inclined to spend 5 minutes longer attemptig to find the most optimized group - instead of taking anyone in the group, just for fun, and spending an additional 30-60 minutes trying to complete the content.
Eh...not sure about left out but I can see a lot of pugs least in the beginning thinking a Guardian is a must have.
1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.
2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.
3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.
Will there be classes and builds that certain players will want? YES
Will there be Min/Maxing happening with this MMO? YES
Will there be classes left out when joining an Dungeon Party? YES
All these things will still happen, nothing is gonna stop it, people will be people, if someone said that Guardians is a Must, certain groups will always have a Guardian, but it doesn't mean that Guardian that you have is good at being a Guardian.
The players that will be in my Friend's list will be players that knows what the hell they are doing, regardless of Class or Profession.
Having the Optimal Build and Class combination still requires those players to know how to play and when to do what they need to do.
If there is 5 Warriors for a dungeon, I will still go through the dungeon, because they might be the best Warriors out there, each avoid the damages, and killing every boss like a BOSS, would be the quickest Dungeon ever, and still won't be the best combination and Maxing setup.
Personally I would avoid all parties that seeks an specific role, or specific class, its not even worth the try if they are already broadcasting that they can not play any other way except this way. That just tells me that this party can not adapt, nor change their playstyle when required. They are so set in their ways, that if a boss does something different, or an Rare encounter happens, a wipe is guaranteed. Who the hell wants to join a party like that?
I think what will happen after everyone gets used to the game would be, I choose someone else because You never avoid the fire on the ground, or you triggered every single trap everytime we went into the dungeon. Or you use range weapons when in melee, and melee when in range. Or you are always drunk, or you never wait for the group, not a team player.....etc
Instead of , you are an Warrior I need a Ranger.
Life is a Maze, so make sure you bring your GPS incase you get lost in it.
I doubt it's just elitist jerks or lazy players who would stick to an 'optimal' group composition.
How about people who don't have much time to play and want to accomplish as much as possible during their play session?
Not everyone is ok wiping over and over again, and most players would want to maximize their success rates, especially for challenging content.
What easier way to succeed than to pick the right professions for the team?
Tips for people who don't want to be left out (for challenging content, NOT story mode dungeons, DEs or PUGs)
1. Make friends and stick with a guild or group as early as possible in the game. Don't expect to solo to level cap and then find a group who won't pick and choose.
2. Learn your profession, skills, builds, gear, and play it well.
3. Play nice, and you'll get invited again. Most players would rather play with a polite, mature player who's average, than a skilled jerk.
Comments
+1- and there will no doubt be parsers eventually regardless of whether Anet is okay with it. So regardless of the changes Anet has brought to the traditional roles of the genre it's not going to affect the laziness that is omnipresent if you're PUGing. Sadly not everyone has a pre-made group of besties ready to go.
Do you believe the devs can control who players choose to exclude from grouping?
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Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you playing an MMORPG?"
@OP
You can complete every single dungeon in the game by using 5 of the same classes (5 thief, 5 ele, etc.).
Not sure you understand the OP's post.
Although, they can be completed with all of the same class. As the OP stated, some classes tend to lend themselves better to situations/roles than others and, therefore, become the "preferred" class makeup.At that point elitist jerks and lazy people bar class/role makeups that don't fit the "mold". Will it happen in GW2? Simple answer.. Yes. Should it? No.
Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)
Everyone keeps blaming theorycrafters, elitist jerks, or just plain ignorance on why people are more inclined to attempt to optimize their group instead of just grabbing whomever - when the game mechanics allow you to complete the content with whomever.
In reality, Time is most likely the true driving force behind group optimization:
Ultimate Online was released in 1997.
Everquest was released in 1999.
World of Warcraft was released in 2004.
On average, most MMO enthusiasts have been around the genre for about 10 years. Whereas a large number of us were in our 20's when we first got into MMOs, time has passed and we're now pushing into our early 30's.
On average, most of us are no longer in school and able to define our own schedules. On average, most of us are no longer working at a coffee shop or Walmart and have excessive free time.
The reality is that the playerbase has grown up, settled into a real job, been married and potentially had a few kids. The 20 something playerbase is the exception in this genre, not the norm. As such, Time... is the most important thing to us.
So - whereas theorycrafters, elitist jerks and ignorant people still do exist and drive the perception of elitist optimized group forming. The majority of the players simply realize they have a limited amount of time to play, and as such are more inclined to spend 5 minutes longer attemptig to find the most optimized group - instead of taking anyone in the group, just for fun, and spending an additional 30-60 minutes trying to complete the content.
1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.
2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.
3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.
Will there be favorites ? YES
Will there be classes and builds that certain players will want? YES
Will there be Min/Maxing happening with this MMO? YES
Will there be classes left out when joining an Dungeon Party? YES
All these things will still happen, nothing is gonna stop it, people will be people, if someone said that Guardians is a Must, certain groups will always have a Guardian, but it doesn't mean that Guardian that you have is good at being a Guardian.
The players that will be in my Friend's list will be players that knows what the hell they are doing, regardless of Class or Profession.
Having the Optimal Build and Class combination still requires those players to know how to play and when to do what they need to do.
If there is 5 Warriors for a dungeon, I will still go through the dungeon, because they might be the best Warriors out there, each avoid the damages, and killing every boss like a BOSS, would be the quickest Dungeon ever, and still won't be the best combination and Maxing setup.
Personally I would avoid all parties that seeks an specific role, or specific class, its not even worth the try if they are already broadcasting that they can not play any other way except this way. That just tells me that this party can not adapt, nor change their playstyle when required. They are so set in their ways, that if a boss does something different, or an Rare encounter happens, a wipe is guaranteed. Who the hell wants to join a party like that?
I think what will happen after everyone gets used to the game would be, I choose someone else because You never avoid the fire on the ground, or you triggered every single trap everytime we went into the dungeon. Or you use range weapons when in melee, and melee when in range. Or you are always drunk, or you never wait for the group, not a team player.....etc
Instead of , you are an Warrior I need a Ranger.
Life is a Maze, so make sure you bring your GPS incase you get lost in it.
I doubt it's just elitist jerks or lazy players who would stick to an 'optimal' group composition.
How about people who don't have much time to play and want to accomplish as much as possible during their play session?
Not everyone is ok wiping over and over again, and most players would want to maximize their success rates, especially for challenging content.
What easier way to succeed than to pick the right professions for the team?
Tips for people who don't want to be left out (for challenging content, NOT story mode dungeons, DEs or PUGs)
1. Make friends and stick with a guild or group as early as possible in the game. Don't expect to solo to level cap and then find a group who won't pick and choose.
2. Learn your profession, skills, builds, gear, and play it well.
3. Play nice, and you'll get invited again. Most players would rather play with a polite, mature player who's average, than a skilled jerk.