Originally posted by otinanai123 These rewards aren't enough, especially for level 80s. And yes, I did some WvW in all BWEs.
U see? That is the difference between us mate. I dont need "rewards,rewards,rewards". Ill go there for PvP, that alone, if it is good enough, is THE ultimate reward. I get a bit of loot, thats fine. I get my "pvp coins" where i can buy special armor from, that is reward as well if you want. I can raid keeps with my friends, that is also a reward. I dont need the chatline "Im RR XXX and i r00xer you through the Emain". I simply dont need an E-Peen.
You see what i mean? Or better what i like? That is why taste is different to all of us which is a good thing, or?
Me loves it. And one thing beside, there is a relic, it is the Orb. And on the other hand, if you remember, RR in DaoC where not there right from the beginning. And who says that we dont get that as well? This is a new MMO and as we old ones know, no MMO was perfect from the beginning, they all "grow with time".
except DAoC which shrank with time :'(
But seriously, you say you dont need "rewards,rewards,rewards". Have you actually tested this on yourself? Have you played GW1 and enjoyed it for a long time?
There are some good points in this thread. I think the value-for-money argument listed above is a good one. Of course when viewed along those lines, there's very little reason not to play GW2 if you like single player games especially. There's just a lot of content to be played and many many hours of fun.
BUT! As I've posted, and many others have posted in other threads along these lines, it's not really about whether the game is fun for a few months. I think what these discussions are really about is "motivation" in the game post level cap. It's cool that they've gotten rid of the gear grind, I think a lot of people would agree to that. What's maybe not so cool (and I'm a huge fan of GW2 so I really WANT to like the endgame) is that on hitting 80, the cosmetic rewards might not be enough to motivate a lot of players.
Yes you can repeat or play the rest of the lower level content.
Yes you can do the dungeons.
Yes there is a pretty awesome WvWvW mode (but this is not attractive for some PvE'ers).
But really what people are worried about is a reward system. People want to "progress" or "evolve" their character in some way that's meaningful (and no, I don't consider different costumes evolving a character). I think that the skill points will do this for a while, until you max out what stats/skills your character has, but then what?
If I use Rift for a comparison. I'm not pumping Rift, I'm just using it as an example. Rift is built on a gear grind system, but it also has a post-level-cap level system called Planar Attunement : http://rift.zam.com/wiki/Planar_Attunement_(Rift)
This lets people continue to do quests, dynamic events, invasions, raids, whatever and leveling up their PA will let them distrubute poitns in this VERY large stat boost system. Rift also has 11 dungeons which also have multiple modes in which they can be completed (with different rewards).
I'm sorry to say, that even with so many dungeons, and multiple modes, they still get boring after a while.
But then on top of all this, Rift has 5 raid instances.
And oh yes one more, they have single player (or 2-player) versions of those raids, to include people who prefer not to raid in big groups.
Rift also has a down-leveling system to play with your friends at lower levels, and gain experience towards your Planar Attunement levels.
So back to GW2, it's great and I love it. I can't wait to play it. I'm going to love every minute of the leveling up experience, I can tell that already. The combat, I think, is superior to other games out there. But I just can't agree with a lot of the hype-posts about "JUST PLAY THE GAME!" or "ENDGAME STARTS AT LEVEL 2!" because I've played that game, and it's just not a valid argument when people question the longevity of the post-level-cap gameplay.
well considering that is Anets whole philosophy of how they built this game why is it not a valid argument? They said time and time again when you hit 80 it's not a complete 180 shift of what you will be doing in the game. The game was designed to play much of how you were leveling from 1-79 at level 80. If you did not enjoy or are the kind who only cares about getting that super rare drop that makes you that much stronger the game will not appeal to you as much. There are a sea of tier based gear grind for power games out there, Anet wanted to do something differn't and as someone who is tired of the gear grind to improve my character type MMO I welcome this new philosophy with open arms. Obviously there are a lot of people out their that enjoy the raid based gear grind endgame but having seen the trend of MMOs in the past decade I think it is time for a change for many people and feel gw2 brings that better than any before it.
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
WvsW is actually better than RvR in DAoC ever was. No gear advantage, no advantage through rank abilities, just you, the enemy, and the same tools for both. But then, I don't see DAoC with any kind of romantic nostalgia, but for what it is.
I agree that the rank advantage was too much, but gear advantage? In daoc? Did that even exist? Are you thinking of WoW maybe?
Originally posted by otinanai123 These rewards aren't enough, especially for level 80s. And yes, I did some WvW in all BWEs.
U see? That is the difference between us mate. I dont need "rewards,rewards,rewards". Ill go there for PvP, that alone, if it is good enough, is THE ultimate reward. I get a bit of loot, thats fine. I get my "pvp coins" where i can buy special armor from, that is reward as well if you want. I can raid keeps with my friends, that is also a reward. I dont need the chatline "Im RR XXX and i r00xer you through the Emain". I simply dont need an E-Peen.
You see what i mean? Or better what i like? That is why taste is different to all of us which is a good thing, or?
Me loves it. And one thing beside, there is a relic, it is the Orb. And on the other hand, if you remember, RR in DaoC where not there right from the beginning. And who says that we dont get that as well? This is a new MMO and as we old ones know, no MMO was perfect from the beginning, they all "grow with time".
except DAoC which shrank with time :'(
But seriously, you say you dont need "rewards,rewards,rewards". Have you actually tested this on yourself? Have you played GW1 and enjoyed it for a long time?
Hey,
yap, i played GW 1 long enough. i am looking forward to my HOM rewards. But i think we can not compare GW 1 vs GW 2, or can we? When u think about the basics, so perhaps yes, but in GW 2 there is so much more compared to GW 1.
Ah, and i forgot one thing. I might suggest that i played DaoC in EU, so our expirience in regards to RvR might be completly different as well!! Not to forget that
Originally posted by otinanai123 These rewards aren't enough, especially for level 80s. And yes, I did some WvW in all BWEs.
U see? That is the difference between us mate. I dont need "rewards,rewards,rewards". Ill go there for PvP, that alone, if it is good enough, is THE ultimate reward. I get a bit of loot, thats fine. I get my "pvp coins" where i can buy special armor from, that is reward as well if you want. I can raid keeps with my friends, that is also a reward. I dont need the chatline "Im RR XXX and i r00xer you through the Emain". I simply dont need an E-Peen.
You see what i mean? Or better what i like? That is why taste is different to all of us which is a good thing, or?
Me loves it. And one thing beside, there is a relic, it is the Orb. And on the other hand, if you remember, RR in DaoC where not there right from the beginning. And who says that we dont get that as well? This is a new MMO and as we old ones know, no MMO was perfect from the beginning, they all "grow with time".
except DAoC which shrank with time :'(
But seriously, you say you dont need "rewards,rewards,rewards". Have you actually tested this on yourself? Have you played GW1 and enjoyed it for a long time?
Hey,
yap, i played GW 1 long enough. i am looking forward to my HOM rewards. But i think we can not compare GW 1 vs GW 2, or can we? When u think about the basics, so perhaps yes, but in GW 2 there is so much more compared to GW 1.
Ah, and i forgot one thing. I might suggest that i played DaoC in EU, so our expirience in regards to RvR might be completly different as well!! Not to forget that
Wait were you a scout on excal? your name sounds familiar.
First Character was a Mage, second a Lurikeen Archer ( and tons of Alts/twinks)
Server: Lyonesse
Realm: Hibernia
Name: Finniola
And in regards to the Name Ilaya.....hmm...if you have played "Saga of Ryzom" in Eu, then you "might" know me *giggle* but i would suggest to use google for that then
First Character was a Mage, second a Lurikeen Archer ( and tons of Alts/twinks)
Server: Lyonesse
Realm: Hibernia
Name: Finniola
And in regards to the Name Ilaya.....hmm...if you have played "Saga of Ryzom" in Eu, then you "might" know me *giggle* but i would suggest to use google for that then
But seriously, you say you dont need "rewards,rewards,rewards". Have you actually tested this on yourself? Have you played GW1 and enjoyed it for a long time?
Talking for myself, I've been playing GW1 since the beginning, on and off at times (the joy of B2P) but all these years I always went back to GW1 after the "next big thing" failed miserably. Why? Because of the gameplay, because of the difficulty and the thought process involved in properly playing, both PVE and PVP. Also just like in GW2 there were countless builds to try/play and eventually master for any profession. In GW2 this is true as well. You can change your build type drastically without rolling an alt or having to change all your gear.
Were there any super elite rewards to earn in GW1? No of course not, only prettier items and titles. I was playing for fun and the challenge and it is/was enough for me, a real challenge. I don't want a power progression in a game (without a cap), all games should have a cap and/or lots of horizontal advancement/progression.
I don't want power progression in PVP and I don't want it even in PVE, why are some people so obsessed with it? The only type of game that has this kind of constant power progression is an MMO, there are countless of gamers who don't like MMOs for that reason (and lots of other reasons as well). If you've played/enjoyed other game types, except for MMOs, you should've realised why the "rewards, rewards, rewards" isn't really needed in a game.
Block the trolls, don't answer them, so we can remove the garbage from these forums
WvsW is actually better than RvR in DAoC ever was. No gear advantage, no advantage through rank abilities, just you, the enemy, and the same tools for both. But then, I don't see DAoC with any kind of romantic nostalgia, but for what it is.
I agree that the rank advantage was too much, but gear advantage? In daoc? Did that even exist? Are you thinking of WoW maybe?
There was a gear advantage. If you remember, you could get amazing stuff from master level bosses, and before that I believe crafted gear could get your resists up much higher than what you could get otherwise. Even the big bosses in Darkness Falls had some good stuff on'em.
I haven't played WvWvW in GW2 but I did have an amazing time in DAoC in RVR in NF and later in the Lab. I thought, though annoying Realm Rank was fine. It made things very challenging, that is, until a RR13 Reaver came and Reaver bombed everyone.
I think part of the fun in DAoC was the act of facing off against different races that had different classes. It's just not fun to face exact same classes over and over, done it in WOW before. Having completely different classes with different animations makes a difference.
So far this thread sounds like a wave of excuses for the games lack of endgame. More pvp that you can do before max level doesn't count as endgame. Other then the legendary weapons you'll be doing all that stuff as you level like most other MMO's. many people are saying GW2 makes you not want to subscribe anywhere because you get less game anyways. I'd say that's a gross exagerration if this is really all the endgame you guys can come up with.
Thankfully GW2 doesn't have ENDgame. Just game. I don't want it to end.
If in 1982 we played with the current mentality, we would have burned down all the pac man games since the red ghost was clearly OP. Instead we just got better at the game.
There are some good points in this thread. I think the value-for-money argument listed above is a good one. Of course when viewed along those lines, there's very little reason not to play GW2 if you like single player games especially. There's just a lot of content to be played and many many hours of fun.
BUT! As I've posted, and many others have posted in other threads along these lines, it's not really about whether the game is fun for a few months. I think what these discussions are really about is "motivation" in the game post level cap. It's cool that they've gotten rid of the gear grind, I think a lot of people would agree to that. What's maybe not so cool (and I'm a huge fan of GW2 so I really WANT to like the endgame) is that on hitting 80, the cosmetic rewards might not be enough to motivate a lot of players.
Yes you can repeat or play the rest of the lower level content.
Yes you can do the dungeons.
Yes there is a pretty awesome WvWvW mode (but this is not attractive for some PvE'ers).
But really what people are worried about is a reward system. People want to "progress" or "evolve" their character in some way that's meaningful (and no, I don't consider different costumes evolving a character). I think that the skill points will do this for a while, until you max out what stats/skills your character has, but then what?
If I use Rift for a comparison. I'm not pumping Rift, I'm just using it as an example. Rift is built on a gear grind system, but it also has a post-level-cap level system called Planar Attunement : http://rift.zam.com/wiki/Planar_Attunement_(Rift)
This lets people continue to do quests, dynamic events, invasions, raids, whatever and leveling up their PA will let them distrubute poitns in this VERY large stat boost system. Rift also has 11 dungeons which also have multiple modes in which they can be completed (with different rewards).
I'm sorry to say, that even with so many dungeons, and multiple modes, they still get boring after a while.
But then on top of all this, Rift has 5 raid instances.
And oh yes one more, they have single player (or 2-player) versions of those raids, to include people who prefer not to raid in big groups.
Rift also has a down-leveling system to play with your friends at lower levels, and gain experience towards your Planar Attunement levels.
So back to GW2, it's great and I love it. I can't wait to play it. I'm going to love every minute of the leveling up experience, I can tell that already. The combat, I think, is superior to other games out there. But I just can't agree with a lot of the hype-posts about "JUST PLAY THE GAME!" or "ENDGAME STARTS AT LEVEL 2!" because I've played that game, and it's just not a valid argument when people question the longevity of the post-level-cap gameplay.
well considering that is Anets whole philosophy of how they built this game why is it not a valid argument? They said time and time again when you hit 80 it's not a complete 180 shift of what you will be doing in the game. The game was designed to play much of how you were leveling from 1-79 at level 80. If you did not enjoy or are the kind who only cares about getting that super rare drop that makes you that much stronger the game will not appeal to you as much. There are a sea of tier based gear grind for power games out there, Anet wanted to do something differn't and as someone who is tired of the gear grind to improve my character type MMO I welcome this new philosophy with open arms. Obviously there are a lot of people out their that enjoy the raid based gear grind endgame but having seen the trend of MMOs in the past decade I think it is time for a change for many people and feel gw2 brings that better than any before it.
As I said, I agree it's a nice thing that they're trying to change the model and do away with the regular tier based gear grind. At its heart though, that is a "motivation system". So if you're doing away with the regular motivation system used in most mmos then you need to provide another motivation system. Currently I don't agree that there is any such system, despite all the awesome "content" that there is (and no, content is not the same as a motivational system - a motivational system is a game mechanic).
We will see though. It's obvious that Anet has some very clever designers, so I think they will be able to adapt their designs over time to retain people. I'm not particularly worried about the game.
However again, I do think people who say "just play the game" or "it's all endgame" are just being blindly faithful. That is a marketing line you're repeating, if anything.
Originally posted by JimmyYO So far this thread sounds like a wave of excuses for the games lack of endgame. More pvp that you can do before max level doesn't count as endgame. Other then the legendary weapons you'll be doing all that stuff as you level like most other MMO's. many people are saying GW2 makes you not want to subscribe anywhere because you get less game anyways. I'd say that's a gross exagerration if this is really all the endgame you guys can come up with.
To begin with, they talked about Orr, the erstwhile city of the gods, which has recently been turned into the abode of the dragon Zhaitan and his reanimated minions. Orr has no renown hearts, the quest-like activities that have been known to litter the lower-level areas, "because there are generally very few friendly NPCs in Orr." Instead, players' focus in Orr will be on huge events. There are roughly twice as many dynamic events in the Orrian areas as in other explorable zones; many of these are tied together as nets, rather than simple chains. Events tend to have farther-reaching effects than we've seen so far in lower-level areas, putting emphasis more on holistic zone control and cooperation than in the early game. Johanson suggested that players will need to recapture the fallen temples of the old gods and then keep control of those while also pushing deeper into the zone and fighting baddies at the frontlines.
Originally posted by JimmyYO So far this thread sounds like a wave of excuses for the games lack of endgame. More pvp that you can do before max level doesn't count as endgame. Other then the legendary weapons you'll be doing all that stuff as you level like most other MMO's. many people are saying GW2 makes you not want to subscribe anywhere because you get less game anyways. I'd say that's a gross exagerration if this is really all the endgame you guys can come up with.
Raiding is not end game, sorry. Raiding is a way for developers to make content last longer by artificial gating with items. The game does not get easier by outgearing it like in WoW and make every piece of content prior to the current content patch not count towards anything of value. Fact is that GW2 will always have more content to do then a game like WoW does since the content is always challenging and relevant, only now it does not gate you and your friends from playing together based on gear levels. Not to mention that GW2 will more then likely patch more frequenty then WoW does. (there are games that are not MMOs that provide more content) Item grinds are not fun, and neither is running Dragon Soul over and over for 9 months. Sure, GW2 will get boring if you do the same thing over and over again, but now you have the whole game to do over and over again. Not to mention there IS endgame. Legendary items, PvP, Orr, dungeons, other stuff that they have not yet announced, minigames, completing maps, and the rest of the game. What most people don't realize is how hard the game will be as you get to higher level areas. GW1 content was always much harder then anything you see in World of Dragon Soul for 9 months and Icecrown for 11 months-craft.
Originally posted by JimmyYO So far this thread sounds like a wave of excuses for the games lack of endgame. More pvp that you can do before max level doesn't count as endgame. Other then the legendary weapons you'll be doing all that stuff as you level like most other MMO's. many people are saying GW2 makes you not want to subscribe anywhere because you get less game anyways. I'd say that's a gross exagerration if this is really all the endgame you guys can come up with.
Raiding is not end game, sorry. Raiding is a way for developers to make content last longer by artificial gating with items. The game does not get easier by outgearing it like in WoW and make every piece of content prior to the current content patch not count towards anything of value. Fact is that GW2 will always have more content to do then a game like WoW does since the content is always challenging and relevant, only now it does not gate you and your friends from playing together based on gear levels. Not to mention that GW2 will more then likely patch more frequenty then WoW does. (there are games that are not MMOs that provide more content) Item grinds are not fun, and neither is running Dragon Soul over and over for 9 months. Sure, GW2 will get boring if you do the same thing over and over again, but now you have the whole game to do over and over again. Not to mention there IS endgame. Legandary items, PvP, Orr, dungeons, other stuff that they have not yet announced, minigames, completing maps, and the rest of the game. What most people don't realize is how hard the game will be as you get to higher level areas. GW1 content was always much harder then anything you see in World of Dragon Soul for 9 months and Icecrown for 11 months-craft.
I blame WoW and every other game like it for creating a system that funnels everyone into a raid or die atmosphere that trivializes everything else for overglorified dungeons where the only reason you put up with other people is either because they are your friends, or you see them as a means to an end; in this case, loot and glory.
Originally posted by JimmyYO So far this thread sounds like a wave of excuses for the games lack of endgame. More pvp that you can do before max level doesn't count as endgame. Other then the legendary weapons you'll be doing all that stuff as you level like most other MMO's. many people are saying GW2 makes you not want to subscribe anywhere because you get less game anyways. I'd say that's a gross exagerration if this is really all the endgame you guys can come up with.
Raiding is not end game, sorry. Raiding is a way for developers to make content last longer by artificial gating with items. The game does not get easier by outgearing it like in WoW and make every piece of content prior to the current content patch not count towards anything of value. Fact is that GW2 will always have more content to do then a game like WoW does since the content is always challenging and relevant, only now it does not gate you and your friends from playing together based on gear levels. Not to mention that GW2 will more then likely patch more frequenty then WoW does. (there are games that are not MMOs that provide more content) Item grinds are not fun, and neither is running Dragon Soul over and over for 9 months. Sure, GW2 will get boring if you do the same thing over and over again, but now you have the whole game to do over and over again. Not to mention there IS endgame. Legandary items, PvP, Orr, dungeons, other stuff that they have not yet announced, minigames, completing maps, and the rest of the game. What most people don't realize is how hard the game will be as you get to higher level areas. GW1 content was always much harder then anything you see in World of Dragon Soul for 9 months and Icecrown for 11 months-craft.
I blame WoW and every other game like it for creating a system that funnels everyone into a raid or die atmosphere that trivializes everything else for overglorified dungeons where the only reason you put up with other people is either because they are your friends, or you see them as a means to an end; in this case, loot and glory.
Its cool man, my 500 strength sword has more then your 450 strength sword. That means I am better then you.
OP, you lost me at, doesn't like to roll Alts. For shame. That's what shows a good MMO from the tons of horrible ones. Great replay value with a brand new class/race. I personally plan to have all 8 classes and all races and each one I will have a blast playing anytime I want without worrying about a sub fee. That IS my endgame. It's been my endgame in every other MMO I play and is usually the best way to gauge which MMOs are better and which aren't. For example. WoW had a great Alt game for many years. SWTOR however, does not. Lotro has a pretty good alt game. Rift does not. Although at least Rift, does other things fairly well and is always adding content at record paces.
Originally posted by otinanai123 You just dinged 80. You don't like leveling alts and want to finally experience GW2's endgame. What will keep you occupied for a whole year until the next expansion?
I ive played enough mmorpgs to know that you will have done everything by 2 months in gw2 and the rest relies souly on how much fun you can generate with no reward except personal fun.
Which can be done tho, I played 70 twinks in wow for many years i never got bored of the dungeons. Eventually stopped because no one does 70 twinks anymore.
TSW - AoC - Aion - WOW - EVE - Fallen Earth - Co - Rift - || XNA C# Java Development
As I said, I agree it's a nice thing that they're trying to change the model and do away with the regular tier based gear grind. At its heart though, that is a "motivation system". So if you're doing away with the regular motivation system used in most mmos then you need to provide another motivation system. Currently I don't agree that there is any such system, despite all the awesome "content" that there is (and no, content is not the same as a motivational system - a motivational system is a game mechanic).
We will see though. It's obvious that Anet has some very clever designers, so I think they will be able to adapt their designs over time to retain people. I'm not particularly worried about the game.
However again, I do think people who say "just play the game" or "it's all endgame" are just being blindly faithful. That is a marketing line you're repeating, if anything.
What you're missing, is that the whole concept of 'endgame' is symptomatic of a verticle progression scale. While there is a bit of verticle progression in GW2, the game is actually based around a horizontal progression model. As such, the whole concept of 'endgame' is moot, because it's not designed around a system that is based off of such a concept.
I know it's a foreign concept for most MMOers, but if you look at certain other games (Eve, GW1 for example), no one gives a crap about 'what is endgame!?' in those games, because the games put you at 'endgame' status very early on, and the game is more about unlocking more customization for your characters, and exploring more of the content / trying to do different thinks with the customization you end up getting. It's not about grinding for max lvl gear (though u can still do that in both games if that's your thing).
The whole concept of 'endgame' is built around the assumption that once you hit lvl cap you will be doing something completely different from what you were doing to get there. GW2 just isn't built that way, hence the claim 'the entire game is endgame'. If lvling just isn't that big of a deal, no content became irrelevant as you lvled, and gear was mostly about cosmetic options (ya I know there are stats too), then wouldn't the endgame be that you've 'unlocked' all the content available in the game, and are now free to go through it as you see fit?
I mean, lvling in this game is so ridiculously easy, that you can hit lvl 80 long before you've explored half the zones. This is unless, of course, you're one of those people who only do heart quests, nothing else, and then complain that the game doesn't have anything new.
The truth may be puzzling. It may take some work to grapple with. It may be counterintuitive. It may contradict deeply held prejudices. It may not be consonant with what we desperately want to be true. But our preferences do not determine what's true.
Choreographing my own GW2 musical about ninjas who steal turnips from baby charr who are sick with the Nornish plague. (I may need help with this one..)
I'm playing male charr as my first alt when release. If you are looking for a role of papa-charr then hit me a call and time of the audition. ... I MUST SHINE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Wow, raid or do an alt each time you want to play old content(well for a couple hours until you out level it again)
Gw 2 all content viable at all times to all of your chars including your main. That + achieves+ instances+ gear / legendaries + many forms of pvp + event nets in Orr + builds and alt gear sets = end game.
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
As I said, I agree it's a nice thing that they're trying to change the model and do away with the regular tier based gear grind. At its heart though, that is a "motivation system". So if you're doing away with the regular motivation system used in most mmos then you need to provide another motivation system. Currently I don't agree that there is any such system, despite all the awesome "content" that there is (and no, content is not the same as a motivational system - a motivational system is a game mechanic).
We will see though. It's obvious that Anet has some very clever designers, so I think they will be able to adapt their designs over time to retain people. I'm not particularly worried about the game.
However again, I do think people who say "just play the game" or "it's all endgame" are just being blindly faithful. That is a marketing line you're repeating, if anything.
What you're missing, is that the whole concept of 'endgame' is symptomatic of a verticle progression scale. While there is a bit of verticle progression in GW2, the game is actually based around a horizontal progression model. As such, the whole concept of 'endgame' is moot, because it's not designed around a system that is based off of such a concept.
I know it's a foreign concept for most MMOers, but if you look at certain other games (Eve, GW1 for example), no one gives a crap about 'what is endgame!?' in those games, because the games put you at 'endgame' status very early on, and the game is more about unlocking more customization for your characters, and exploring more of the content / trying to do different thinks with the customization you end up getting. It's not about grinding for max lvl gear (though u can still do that in both games if that's your thing).
The whole concept of 'endgame' is built around the assumption that once you hit lvl cap you will be doing something completely different from what you were doing to get there. GW2 just isn't built that way, hence the claim 'the entire game is endgame'. If lvling just isn't that big of a deal, no content became irrelevant as you lvled, and gear was mostly about cosmetic options (ya I know there are stats too), then wouldn't the endgame be that you've 'unlocked' all the content available in the game, and are now free to go through it as you see fit?
I mean, lvling in this game is so ridiculously easy, that you can hit lvl 80 long before you've explored half the zones. This is unless, of course, you're one of those people who only do heart quests, nothing else, and then complain that the game doesn't have anything new.
^ I know it's a new concept for people but overall it makes this game to me have more longevity than any game out there as long as anet keeps up with the updates as the said they plan to.
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
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except DAoC which shrank with time :'(
But seriously, you say you dont need "rewards,rewards,rewards". Have you actually tested this on yourself? Have you played GW1 and enjoyed it for a long time?
my review of GW2
well considering that is Anets whole philosophy of how they built this game why is it not a valid argument? They said time and time again when you hit 80 it's not a complete 180 shift of what you will be doing in the game. The game was designed to play much of how you were leveling from 1-79 at level 80. If you did not enjoy or are the kind who only cares about getting that super rare drop that makes you that much stronger the game will not appeal to you as much. There are a sea of tier based gear grind for power games out there, Anet wanted to do something differn't and as someone who is tired of the gear grind to improve my character type MMO I welcome this new philosophy with open arms. Obviously there are a lot of people out their that enjoy the raid based gear grind endgame but having seen the trend of MMOs in the past decade I think it is time for a change for many people and feel gw2 brings that better than any before it.
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
I agree that the rank advantage was too much, but gear advantage? In daoc? Did that even exist? Are you thinking of WoW maybe?
my review of GW2
Hey,
yap, i played GW 1 long enough. i am looking forward to my HOM rewards. But i think we can not compare GW 1 vs GW 2, or can we? When u think about the basics, so perhaps yes, but in GW 2 there is so much more compared to GW 1.
Ah, and i forgot one thing. I might suggest that i played DaoC in EU, so our expirience in regards to RvR might be completly different as well!! Not to forget that
Aerowyn's Video Compilation of ALL things Guild Wars 2
Wait were you a scout on excal? your name sounds familiar.
my review of GW2
First Character was a Mage, second a Lurikeen Archer ( and tons of Alts/twinks)
Server: Lyonesse
Realm: Hibernia
Name: Finniola
And in regards to the Name Ilaya.....hmm...if you have played "Saga of Ryzom" in Eu, then you "might" know me *giggle* but i would suggest to use google for that then
Aerowyn's Video Compilation of ALL things Guild Wars 2
I was thinking of this guy: http://www.pso-world.com/forums/showthread.php?t=138076
my review of GW2
Talking for myself, I've been playing GW1 since the beginning, on and off at times (the joy of B2P) but all these years I always went back to GW1 after the "next big thing" failed miserably. Why? Because of the gameplay, because of the difficulty and the thought process involved in properly playing, both PVE and PVP. Also just like in GW2 there were countless builds to try/play and eventually master for any profession. In GW2 this is true as well. You can change your build type drastically without rolling an alt or having to change all your gear.
Were there any super elite rewards to earn in GW1? No of course not, only prettier items and titles. I was playing for fun and the challenge and it is/was enough for me, a real challenge. I don't want a power progression in a game (without a cap), all games should have a cap and/or lots of horizontal advancement/progression.
I don't want power progression in PVP and I don't want it even in PVE, why are some people so obsessed with it? The only type of game that has this kind of constant power progression is an MMO, there are countless of gamers who don't like MMOs for that reason (and lots of other reasons as well). If you've played/enjoyed other game types, except for MMOs, you should've realised why the "rewards, rewards, rewards" isn't really needed in a game.
Block the trolls, don't answer them, so we can remove the garbage from these forums
There was a gear advantage. If you remember, you could get amazing stuff from master level bosses, and before that I believe crafted gear could get your resists up much higher than what you could get otherwise. Even the big bosses in Darkness Falls had some good stuff on'em.
I haven't played WvWvW in GW2 but I did have an amazing time in DAoC in RVR in NF and later in the Lab. I thought, though annoying Realm Rank was fine. It made things very challenging, that is, until a RR13 Reaver came and Reaver bombed everyone.
I think part of the fun in DAoC was the act of facing off against different races that had different classes. It's just not fun to face exact same classes over and over, done it in WOW before. Having completely different classes with different animations makes a difference.
If in 1982 we played with the current mentality, we would have burned down all the pac man games since the red ghost was clearly OP. Instead we just got better at the game.
As I said, I agree it's a nice thing that they're trying to change the model and do away with the regular tier based gear grind. At its heart though, that is a "motivation system". So if you're doing away with the regular motivation system used in most mmos then you need to provide another motivation system. Currently I don't agree that there is any such system, despite all the awesome "content" that there is (and no, content is not the same as a motivational system - a motivational system is a game mechanic).
We will see though. It's obvious that Anet has some very clever designers, so I think they will be able to adapt their designs over time to retain people. I'm not particularly worried about the game.
However again, I do think people who say "just play the game" or "it's all endgame" are just being blindly faithful. That is a marketing line you're repeating, if anything.
To begin with, they talked about Orr, the erstwhile city of the gods, which has recently been turned into the abode of the dragon Zhaitan and his reanimated minions. Orr has no renown hearts, the quest-like activities that have been known to litter the lower-level areas, "because there are generally very few friendly NPCs in Orr." Instead, players' focus in Orr will be on huge events. There are roughly twice as many dynamic events in the Orrian areas as in other explorable zones; many of these are tied together as nets, rather than simple chains. Events tend to have farther-reaching effects than we've seen so far in lower-level areas, putting emphasis more on holistic zone control and cooperation than in the early game. Johanson suggested that players will need to recapture the fallen temples of the old gods and then keep control of those while also pushing deeper into the zone and fighting baddies at the frontlines.
http://massively.joystiq.com/2012/07/12/arenanet-devs-talk-legendary-weapons-endgame-and-more/
"Loading screens" are not "instances".
Your personal efforts to troll any game will not, in fact, impact the success or failure of said game.
Raiding is not end game, sorry. Raiding is a way for developers to make content last longer by artificial gating with items. The game does not get easier by outgearing it like in WoW and make every piece of content prior to the current content patch not count towards anything of value. Fact is that GW2 will always have more content to do then a game like WoW does since the content is always challenging and relevant, only now it does not gate you and your friends from playing together based on gear levels. Not to mention that GW2 will more then likely patch more frequenty then WoW does. (there are games that are not MMOs that provide more content) Item grinds are not fun, and neither is running Dragon Soul over and over for 9 months. Sure, GW2 will get boring if you do the same thing over and over again, but now you have the whole game to do over and over again. Not to mention there IS endgame. Legendary items, PvP, Orr, dungeons, other stuff that they have not yet announced, minigames, completing maps, and the rest of the game. What most people don't realize is how hard the game will be as you get to higher level areas. GW1 content was always much harder then anything you see in World of Dragon Soul for 9 months and Icecrown for 11 months-craft.
I blame WoW and every other game like it for creating a system that funnels everyone into a raid or die atmosphere that trivializes everything else for overglorified dungeons where the only reason you put up with other people is either because they are your friends, or you see them as a means to an end; in this case, loot and glory.
Its cool man, my 500 strength sword has more then your 450 strength sword. That means I am better then you.
I ive played enough mmorpgs to know that you will have done everything by 2 months in gw2 and the rest relies souly on how much fun you can generate with no reward except personal fun.
Which can be done tho, I played 70 twinks in wow for many years i never got bored of the dungeons. Eventually stopped because no one does 70 twinks anymore.
TSW - AoC - Aion - WOW - EVE - Fallen Earth - Co - Rift - || XNA C# Java Development
What you're missing, is that the whole concept of 'endgame' is symptomatic of a verticle progression scale. While there is a bit of verticle progression in GW2, the game is actually based around a horizontal progression model. As such, the whole concept of 'endgame' is moot, because it's not designed around a system that is based off of such a concept.
I know it's a foreign concept for most MMOers, but if you look at certain other games (Eve, GW1 for example), no one gives a crap about 'what is endgame!?' in those games, because the games put you at 'endgame' status very early on, and the game is more about unlocking more customization for your characters, and exploring more of the content / trying to do different thinks with the customization you end up getting. It's not about grinding for max lvl gear (though u can still do that in both games if that's your thing).
The whole concept of 'endgame' is built around the assumption that once you hit lvl cap you will be doing something completely different from what you were doing to get there. GW2 just isn't built that way, hence the claim 'the entire game is endgame'. If lvling just isn't that big of a deal, no content became irrelevant as you lvled, and gear was mostly about cosmetic options (ya I know there are stats too), then wouldn't the endgame be that you've 'unlocked' all the content available in the game, and are now free to go through it as you see fit?
I mean, lvling in this game is so ridiculously easy, that you can hit lvl 80 long before you've explored half the zones. This is unless, of course, you're one of those people who only do heart quests, nothing else, and then complain that the game doesn't have anything new.
The truth may be puzzling. It may take some work to grapple with. It may be counterintuitive. It may contradict deeply held prejudices. It may not be consonant with what we desperately want to be true. But our preferences do not determine what's true.
Carl Sagan-
I'm playing male charr as my first alt when release. If you are looking for a role of papa-charr then hit me a call and time of the audition. ... I MUST SHINE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I agree!!
Gw 2 all content viable at all times to all of your chars including your main. That + achieves+ instances+ gear / legendaries + many forms of pvp + event nets in Orr + builds and alt gear sets = end game.
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D
^ I know it's a new concept for people but overall it makes this game to me have more longevity than any game out there as long as anet keeps up with the updates as the said they plan to.
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg