Same thing. The difference is what you perceive as scam.
What you see as scam, I see as a choice. Maybe not a choice for you, but it might be a choice for others and I have no desires to have any institutions to tell corporations what to sell, how, when or where....
True but it is still annoying when EA and Activision buys up and kills every competent independant developer, like Westwood & Bioware... The list is long.
This leads to us getting very few choices, you can buy EA, Activision or play a boardgame. It is still choices but in the 80s hundreds of AAA games released every year out of thousand of games. Now we PC gamers get 1-2 AAA games a month and they often are just so-so.
Funny enough is the game I had most fun with the last 12 months "Cavemen2cosmos" which is free... That is a great choice even if graphics aren´t as good as it should be.
Greetings.I recently took a broader look and found out something ridiculous, at least to european/american mindset (we russians are used getting spit in the face after we pay money to someone, or saying in queues just to hear a "fk off" from the vendor, etc).Basically, when in dark medieval days you bought a pair of boots, you could rely on them being quality product that will serve you well. And if not, you could come back to the marketplace, slap the vendor with the boots you bought, and that was the worst humiliation for the vendor and noone would buy from him afterwards. Nowadays, you dont even have right to EXPECT to have a working product for your money. You pay money, and think its fine that you will get a non-ready, buggy, unstable or even unplayable pieece of shit!This is especially evident in MMO market.When Aion got released, it was just unplayable. For several days, people couldnt even start playing the game, they'd just get DC'ed over and over or not being able to log in. I didnt play AIon but i have acquintances who did. It was awful.When Diablo 3 got released, it had weeks of serious problems. People couldnt log in, or would get DC/ed from the server, auction house would fail to work, etc. It went so bad that it lead to official lawsuits in South Korea! I bought Diablo3 like a week after release and still, for a week or two, i had problems EVERY DAY. Every day i would either be unable to log in, or would have to spend 10 minutes re-typing my password over and over to log in, or would get my money taken and no item delivered from AH for days... Now, people would come on forums and defend the game, saying that ITS OKAY BECAUSE ITS LAUNCH TIME, BE PATIENT IT WILL BE FIXED SOON.Now i am GW2 fan and awaiting release, and i hear here and there that some of the bugs or obviously missing features wont get fixed and that "we shouldnt be naive and hope it will", that "WvWvW will be unplayable the first several weeks until they fix the lag and find the right balance of amount of people per zone". And that "of course on launch it will be hardly playable because its an MMO launch".It seems that consumers now believe in their mass that you cannot even HOPE for a launch of an MMO to go as it should. Its not that you cannot demand it, its that you cannot even HOPE for it, since you'd be a fool if you do.What happened? What happened to our rights, to the idea of capitalism that competition means services will become better and better, and those who cannot provide better quality will move away from market, and those who provide better quality will stay. However, what we see is that the quality is DEGRADING and consumers are manipulated to believe its inevitable and the only way it can actually be.In past days, there would be no need for patches at all! You could buy a PlayStation game and play it without any patches required at all. You could buy a PC game and play it without any patches required at all, although sometimes they would come out of course. But nothing game breaking would get into release versions. You could expect to buy a game that actually works (if your PC is up to the specs) without issues!Nowadays, you can buy a game that requires you to install shitloads of DRM software that lags and hangs and fizzles so you spend hours just to get your game going. You can buy a game that has its single player only playable online, and so you have problems playing singleplayer game because company didnt prepare enough servers for all the people in the world playing it. Nowadays, when you buy a Massive Multiplayer Online product, you are told not to expect ANYTHING for your money in the first several days or weeks - like its just okay you pay for nothing!?If i cannot enjoy the game, because its publisher or developer failed, what am i paying for? Would someone pay for a pair of autumn boots that have holes in them, only to be told that in some weeks or so (maybe over a month) they can receive a free patch that will fix those holes, but meanwhile they'll have their feet constantly soaked because water and dirt come in through the holes?Worst of all, consumers were pushed to a state when they dont expect to get anything for their money.What happened?
As for boots as you mentioned initially I think the reason a lot of things of that nature aren't of the quality I knew when I was younger is because of where a lot of those things are produced now. Software i guess especially online games must be tough due to the number of things that can go wrong. I never think there's an excuse for a game being released as a buggy, half finished mess but there will always be people that have issues. Frequently I'll see folks post they're having x or y problem with their game and then others chime in about the same issue and I won't be experiencing any of it. Just seems there will never be perfection for games.
Originally posted by IstrebiteI 2 GdemamiServer-side problems are as unforseen as manufacturer-side problems that caused only half of the product to be sealed in a can. But in latter case, this is treated as a fraud, but you want to convince me that in the former case, its perfectly legal?
I am not even sure you are serious on this one...
1) It is no fraud. Fraud implies ill intentions. Do zou imply that Blizzard caused server issues on purpose? 2) The complexity of game server cluster and infrastructure are incomparable. 3) Both cases are completely different.
While bean can content missing is a matter of QA, Blizzard got their servers overloaded by extreme demand for the game.
So if you want to make an analogy, it would be blaming bean producer for not finding your favorite bean can on shelves of your favorite shop.
Or in Windmill example:
I cannot guarantee you the wind will be blowing all the time but when it will, I will guarantee you the Windmill will work.
Blizzard or any other online service does not say anything else. Do you find such guarantee unreasonable or insufficient? Sure, your choice and good luck finding one that fits your needs.
But then again, do not ask for some arbitrary institution or authority to dictate what those needs are supposed to be for everyone.
Most things in this world are "you get what you pay for" with thte exception of Apple products that are overpirced crap.
I'll use my other hobby as an example, I'm a very keen cyclist who covers 200km a week.
I would never buy a £200 bike as they are just rubbish, heavy, poor parts and generally will cost you as much in repairs over a decade as just spending £2000 on a good bike in the first place would have. The same can be applied to pretty much everything else.
Gaming doesnt really work this way though there can be a blinding indie game for under a fiver or you can be expecte to pay £60 for what turns out to be a 4 hour long lemon.
A bycycle is rather cheap to make. A MMO cost over $50M at least, expensive stuff like that are always outside the rules.
Drilling oil is also expensive so a few companies control the market. Same with fighter planes, graphics cards and CPUs, medicine, basically anything that have a very high development cost.
Stuff like beer or anything else 2 competent guys could make with good quality in their garage (as they could with games on the C-64) works fine.
The thing is, 2 guys CAN make a good quality game in thier garage today. The PROBLEM is to many gamers want high quality everything except gameplay. People can blame the developers or publishers all they want. But untill consumers stop buying the product (like you said in your first post) they are going to keep making movies with bad gameplay.
The other thing I wish people would stop doing is buying PC ports that are horrible unless they are on a huge discount. Games like Dark Souls (which I badly wanted on PC), Prototype2, ect should never ever see a sale on PC. Games like Alan Wake deserve to have millions of copies sold. All 3 are good games imo on console. However only one of them took the time to do a proper PC port.
Just like with any product, it is YOUR responsibility to do proper research before you invest your money in it.
Sadly that's not how it is with games. People will buy a game a whole year before the game is released. Now who is really to blame here?
If people stop buying a product, the company will change the product to get them to buy again. In recent years, MMO companies found out that offering trinkets and boosts in pre-order boxes solved that for them. The ball is in the consumer's court now.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
I get what the op is saying. However a lot of folks continue to buy products from the very folks they have complained about for years. If is up the person who is purchasing a product to go hey you know what these guys make cruddy games, maybe I should wait a while.
Same goes in real life a lot of products that use to have quality names, now make mostly throw away products, the reason is they want you to come back.
The only real way to handle this kind of behaviour is not to reward said company with your business.
For instance I will never reward bioware with my business again, I know folks will blame ea but for the most part bioware did this to themselves. Ea on the other had also has a bad reputation, and I am hesitant to deal with them in fact I only had the one game swtor from them. There are other game companies as well such as perfect world/cryptic who I would never deal with again either.
I just say you know what your getting, or you should in advance with game companies. It is up to you if you want to take that chance or not. Choose wisely.
@OP, I get what you're saying but MMOs are notorious for poor launches. If you don't like it, your best bet is to wait a bit before playing a new MMO.
Most other games are pretty much finished when they are released. Console games are generally more reliable and polished at release compared to PC games which are often just ports
Mission in life: Vanquish all MMORPG.com trolls - especially TESO, WOW and GW2 trolls.
Torches and pitchforks, prepare for boarding, follow me boys, Yaaarrrrr!?
Not much new here, think the first time I read this rant was around 1979.
Every single DOS+Windows release since, too...heh.
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
Why is it OK for everything in the world to be resold as used except software?
IP/copyright law covers quite a bit more than just software. The RIAA may want to have a little chat if they catch you reselling music, too.
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
True but it is still annoying when EA and Activision buys up and kills every competent independant developer, like Westwood & Bioware... The list is long.
This leads to us getting very few choices, you can buy EA, Activision or play a boardgame. It is still choices but in the 80s hundreds of AAA games released every year out of thousand of games. Now we PC gamers get 1-2 AAA games a month and they often are just so-so.
Funny enough is the game I had most fun with the last 12 months "Cavemen2cosmos" which is free... That is a great choice even if graphics aren´t as good as it should be.
Actually this is not because EA and Activision became the dominant player - it is because of the costs and time involved in creating a AAA title have increased 100 fold. In the 80's, in truth, AAA titles did not exist. Most games that were released had a developement team of half a dozen to a dozen people at most. I remember when the second (I believe it was the second - may have been the third) ) Wing Commander came out. It was reported as costing 1 million dollars to develope (and this was the early 90's) which was a huge, unheard of cost. Today, a AAA title can easily cost 100 times that and have a developement team of over 100 well paid professionals (MMOs can easily have over 400). You could also pump a new game out to market in a few months. Now some games two three or more years to complete.
It is simply impossible to create the number of AAA titles that 'came out in the 80s' both due to time and money necessary. This is one reason indie titels are starting to take off again (and if you do anything outside of console gaming - which you may - you should be aware of this). There are a lot of quality, fun cost effective indie games available on the market that are worth your money and time.
It is simply impossible to create the number of AAA titles that 'came out in the 80s' both due to time and money necessary.
Well, coders in much shorter supply, and working in primitive languages (COBOL) too. And face it, the average 16-bit 286 based computer couldn't have run an MMO anyway...hell, you were lucky if you could keep Windows 3.1 running for two hours without a BSOD.
But there's some 90s anachronisms creeping into discussion of a minimum-capability MMO, doesn't belong in the 80s at all. You can't run it with a 1200 baud modem and term software.
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
The Game company owns the IP - the software, you don't. Buying the game is a license to play it, not owning it. Any software is like that. That is why if you read the EULA, you normally cannot sell in game items for RL money (except for Blizzard with Diablo 3). It is the same with music, etc.
There is alot of money that goes into developing a game. That investment has to be protected if they want to get money out of it.
Because gamers are idiots and let developers get away with it...
Why is it OK for everything in the world to be resold as used except software?
What game software cannot be resold as used?
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Because gamers are idiots and let developers get away with it...
Why is it OK for everything in the world to be resold as used except software?
What game software cannot be resold as used?
Most newer software/games cannot be resold. Most of the time, the game key is tagged to your name or email address. You cannot resell that.
Interesting.
So pretty much it's a recent thing due to stuff like Origin and such?
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Originally posted by Kyleran I suppose if they ever made a 250.00 game it might have quality levels that would surprise you. (but no guarantees of course, many expensive things are actually quite poor in fact)
I'd be interested to see what kind of response the seemingly affluent gaming consumer would be to this game Would there be anywhere near the number of pre-orders? Would there be massive returns or charge-backs if the game did not deliver as promised? Or would they just throw it in the closet with the other myriads of failed games they have piling up in greater and greater numbers? $250 vs $60 would be an interesting sight
As to the OP: Today's market is more about throw away products. Games are also included in this. How many "bad games" sit on the shelf of the average gamer, MMOs included, instead of being returned? "It's only $60." DVD players get replaced with new ones when they stop working. TVs are the same way. Cars and computers seem to be the two biggest exceptions to this. Cars cost less to repair than to buy new and computers are easily worked on and repaired or upgraded.
The reason gamers receive less than stellar products at release is because we, the consumer, support the inferior products. Unfortunately, too many gamers would have "the shakes of withdrawal" if they could not play a new game. So out comes the credit card and away they spend! ...and in comes the released before ready game.
I think, too, that ego factors in for some gamers. It seems to be a mark of "coolness" to say, "Yea. I played the game from day 1." There are very few games *I* have played from day 1. Most of the games I have in my closet are Game of the Year editions Look at how posters use the "I played the game from beta test." as some kind of badge of honor. That now seems to be better than playing the game from day 1. So many gamers will pre-order or stand in line at the game store just to be able to say, "Yea. I played from day 1." Again, we, the consumers, reward the game companies for lackluster release performance.
What *I* don't want to see is the Government, any government, stepping in and trying to "protect us poor, dumb consumers." People get what they pay for. It is up to them to be smart and responsible about it. And if their purchase falls short of expectations, then it is up to them to make things right.
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse. - FARGIN_WAR
I'd be interested to see what kind of response the seemingly affluent gaming consumer would be to this game Would there be anywhere near the number of pre-orders?
I'd be interested to see if the OPs claims of bug-free software-without-patches ever did hold any weight. I suspect it's selective memory, hard at work. I worked with DOS-based software, both as a user and a coder. His memory seems to be..a little different from mine.
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
There is a big differnce between a 'quality product' and a 'perfect product'. Plus, the performance of said product isn't entirely in the developers hands. With the variety of systems it needs to run on, there are bound to be unforseen issues. Any MMO gamer that has been involved in a launch expects there to be issues. Of course many gamers exaggerate how bad the problems at launch are (i.e., Aion was unplayable - which is not true at all, many people were patient with queues and played plenty). Consumers have EVERY right to expect a quality game that is finished and polished. Anything less is a disservice to the genre.
If in 1982 we played with the current mentality, we would have burned down all the pac man games since the red ghost was clearly OP. Instead we just got better at the game.
I'd be interested to see what kind of response the seemingly affluent gaming consumer would be to this game Would there be anywhere near the number of pre-orders?
I'd be interested to see if the OPs claims of bug-free 80/90s software ever did hold any weight. I suspect it's selective memory, hard at work. I worked with DOS-based software, both as a user and a coder. His memory seems to be..a little different from mine.
Agreed. One of the cool things about Wolf3D is that it just worked.
I didn't have to
make edits to my config.sys or autoexec.bat file
rearrange my EMS/XMS allocation
know the port, interrupt handler or DMA of my sound card
hope my video card was one of the handful of brands/models supported
stop midgame for some oddball anti-piracy system such as entering the fifth word from page 4 paragraph 5 of the manual
Wolf3D was a refreshing change in a sea of games that required a lot of extra effort just to get them to run, let alone run stable.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Originally posted by LoktofeitWolf3D was a refreshing change in a sea of games that required a lot of extra effort just to get them to run, let alone run stable.
I remember feeling a similar sense of relief when WinXP came out.
3.1 thru 95...wrecked some hardware with those repeated BSODs.
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
I'd be interested to see what kind of response the seemingly affluent gaming consumer would be to this game Would there be anywhere near the number of pre-orders?
I'd be interested to see if the OPs claims of bug-free 80/90s software ever did hold any weight. I suspect it's selective memory, hard at work. I worked with DOS-based software, both as a user and a coder. His memory seems to be..a little different from mine.
Agreed. One of the cool things about Wolf3D is that it just worked.
I didn't have to
make edits to my config.sys or autoexec.bat file
rearrange my EMS/XMS allocation
know the port, interrupt handler or DMA of my sound card
hope my video card was one of the handful of brands/models supported
stop midgame for some oddball anti-piracy system such as entering the fifth word from page 4 paragraph 5 of the manual
Wolf3D was a refreshing change in a sea of games that required a lot of extra effort just to get them to run, let alone run stable.
I think you've managed to identify the start of the "dumbing down" of PC gaming, prior to this it really was only for those who could understand and master the intracacies of a DOS based computer.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Comments
True but it is still annoying when EA and Activision buys up and kills every competent independant developer, like Westwood & Bioware... The list is long.
This leads to us getting very few choices, you can buy EA, Activision or play a boardgame. It is still choices but in the 80s hundreds of AAA games released every year out of thousand of games. Now we PC gamers get 1-2 AAA games a month and they often are just so-so.
Funny enough is the game I had most fun with the last 12 months "Cavemen2cosmos" which is free... That is a great choice even if graphics aren´t as good as it should be.
i would rather go and eat my snacks ,than wasting my time on games
As for boots as you mentioned initially I think the reason a lot of things of that nature aren't of the quality I knew when I was younger is because of where a lot of those things are produced now. Software i guess especially online games must be tough due to the number of things that can go wrong. I never think there's an excuse for a game being released as a buggy, half finished mess but there will always be people that have issues. Frequently I'll see folks post they're having x or y problem with their game and then others chime in about the same issue and I won't be experiencing any of it. Just seems there will never be perfection for games.I am not even sure you are serious on this one...
1) It is no fraud. Fraud implies ill intentions. Do zou imply that Blizzard caused server issues on purpose?
2) The complexity of game server cluster and infrastructure are incomparable.
3) Both cases are completely different.
While bean can content missing is a matter of QA, Blizzard got their servers overloaded by extreme demand for the game.
So if you want to make an analogy, it would be blaming bean producer for not finding your favorite bean can on shelves of your favorite shop.
Or in Windmill example:
I cannot guarantee you the wind will be blowing all the time but when it will, I will guarantee you the Windmill will work.
Blizzard or any other online service does not say anything else. Do you find such guarantee unreasonable or insufficient? Sure, your choice and good luck finding one that fits your needs.
But then again, do not ask for some arbitrary institution or authority to dictate what those needs are supposed to be for everyone.
Does not bother me at all, I am concerned about what I can play rather than what I cannot...
Again, if you want to be annoyed and bothered, it is your choice
The thing is, 2 guys CAN make a good quality game in thier garage today. The PROBLEM is to many gamers want high quality everything except gameplay. People can blame the developers or publishers all they want. But untill consumers stop buying the product (like you said in your first post) they are going to keep making movies with bad gameplay.
The other thing I wish people would stop doing is buying PC ports that are horrible unless they are on a huge discount. Games like Dark Souls (which I badly wanted on PC), Prototype2, ect should never ever see a sale on PC. Games like Alan Wake deserve to have millions of copies sold. All 3 are good games imo on console. However only one of them took the time to do a proper PC port.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
I get what the op is saying. However a lot of folks continue to buy products from the very folks they have complained about for years. If is up the person who is purchasing a product to go hey you know what these guys make cruddy games, maybe I should wait a while.
Same goes in real life a lot of products that use to have quality names, now make mostly throw away products, the reason is they want you to come back.
The only real way to handle this kind of behaviour is not to reward said company with your business.
For instance I will never reward bioware with my business again, I know folks will blame ea but for the most part bioware did this to themselves. Ea on the other had also has a bad reputation, and I am hesitant to deal with them in fact I only had the one game swtor from them. There are other game companies as well such as perfect world/cryptic who I would never deal with again either.
I just say you know what your getting, or you should in advance with game companies. It is up to you if you want to take that chance or not. Choose wisely.
Let your wallet do the speaking.
@OP, I get what you're saying but MMOs are notorious for poor launches. If you don't like it, your best bet is to wait a bit before playing a new MMO.
Most other games are pretty much finished when they are released. Console games are generally more reliable and polished at release compared to PC games which are often just ports
Mission in life: Vanquish all MMORPG.com trolls - especially TESO, WOW and GW2 trolls.
Torches and pitchforks, prepare for boarding, follow me boys, Yaaarrrrr!?
Not much new here, think the first time I read this rant was around 1979.
Every single DOS+Windows release since, too...heh.
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
Because gamers are idiots and let developers get away with it...
Why is it OK for everything in the world to be resold as used except software?
IP/copyright law covers quite a bit more than just software. The RIAA may want to have a little chat if they catch you reselling music, too.
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
Actually this is not because EA and Activision became the dominant player - it is because of the costs and time involved in creating a AAA title have increased 100 fold. In the 80's, in truth, AAA titles did not exist. Most games that were released had a developement team of half a dozen to a dozen people at most. I remember when the second (I believe it was the second - may have been the third) ) Wing Commander came out. It was reported as costing 1 million dollars to develope (and this was the early 90's) which was a huge, unheard of cost. Today, a AAA title can easily cost 100 times that and have a developement team of over 100 well paid professionals (MMOs can easily have over 400). You could also pump a new game out to market in a few months. Now some games two three or more years to complete.
It is simply impossible to create the number of AAA titles that 'came out in the 80s' both due to time and money necessary. This is one reason indie titels are starting to take off again (and if you do anything outside of console gaming - which you may - you should be aware of this). There are a lot of quality, fun cost effective indie games available on the market that are worth your money and time.
Well, coders in much shorter supply, and working in primitive languages (COBOL) too. And face it, the average 16-bit 286 based computer couldn't have run an MMO anyway...hell, you were lucky if you could keep Windows 3.1 running for two hours without a BSOD.
But there's some 90s anachronisms creeping into discussion of a minimum-capability MMO, doesn't belong in the 80s at all. You can't run it with a 1200 baud modem and term software.
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
The Game company owns the IP - the software, you don't. Buying the game is a license to play it, not owning it. Any software is like that. That is why if you read the EULA, you normally cannot sell in game items for RL money (except for Blizzard with Diablo 3). It is the same with music, etc.
There is alot of money that goes into developing a game. That investment has to be protected if they want to get money out of it.
What game software cannot be resold as used?
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Most newer software/games cannot be resold. Most of the time, the game key is tagged to your name or email address. You cannot resell that.
Interesting.
So pretty much it's a recent thing due to stuff like Origin and such?
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
As to the OP:
Today's market is more about throw away products. Games are also included in this. How many "bad games" sit on the shelf of the average gamer, MMOs included, instead of being returned? "It's only $60." DVD players get replaced with new ones when they stop working. TVs are the same way. Cars and computers seem to be the two biggest exceptions to this. Cars cost less to repair than to buy new and computers are easily worked on and repaired or upgraded.
The reason gamers receive less than stellar products at release is because we, the consumer, support the inferior products. Unfortunately, too many gamers would have "the shakes of withdrawal" if they could not play a new game. So out comes the credit card and away they spend! ...and in comes the released before ready game.
I think, too, that ego factors in for some gamers. It seems to be a mark of "coolness" to say, "Yea. I played the game from day 1." There are very few games *I* have played from day 1. Most of the games I have in my closet are Game of the Year editions
Look at how posters use the "I played the game from beta test." as some kind of badge of honor. That now seems to be better than playing the game from day 1. So many gamers will pre-order or stand in line at the game store just to be able to say, "Yea. I played from day 1." Again, we, the consumers, reward the game companies for lackluster release performance.
What *I* don't want to see is the Government, any government, stepping in and trying to "protect us poor, dumb consumers." People get what they pay for. It is up to them to be smart and responsible about it. And if their purchase falls short of expectations, then it is up to them to make things right.
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
I'd be interested to see if the OPs claims of bug-free software-without-patches ever did hold any weight. I suspect it's selective memory, hard at work. I worked with DOS-based software, both as a user and a coder. His memory seems to be..a little different from mine.
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
There is a big differnce between a 'quality product' and a 'perfect product'. Plus, the performance of said product isn't entirely in the developers hands. With the variety of systems it needs to run on, there are bound to be unforseen issues. Any MMO gamer that has been involved in a launch expects there to be issues. Of course many gamers exaggerate how bad the problems at launch are (i.e., Aion was unplayable - which is not true at all, many people were patient with queues and played plenty). Consumers have EVERY right to expect a quality game that is finished and polished. Anything less is a disservice to the genre.
If in 1982 we played with the current mentality, we would have burned down all the pac man games since the red ghost was clearly OP. Instead we just got better at the game.
Agreed. One of the cool things about Wolf3D is that it just worked.
I didn't have to
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
I remember feeling a similar sense of relief when WinXP came out.
3.1 thru 95...wrecked some hardware with those repeated BSODs.
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
I think you've managed to identify the start of the "dumbing down" of PC gaming, prior to this it really was only for those who could understand and master the intracacies of a DOS based computer.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon