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If there's no increasing Tiers of Gear, then what's the point...

Master10KMaster10K LondonPosts: 3,065Member
«13

Comments

  • aspekxaspekx Brandon, FLPosts: 2,167Member

    gahd forbid the point should be ... dare i speak its name? ... fun.

    "There are at least two kinds of games.
    One could be called finite, the other infinite.
    A finite game is played for the purpose of winning,
    an infinite game for the purpose of continuing play."
    Finite and Infinite Games, James Carse

  • Master10KMaster10K LondonPosts: 3,065Member
    Originally posted by chelan

    gahd forbid the point should be ... dare i speak its name? ... fun.

    Shhh~ The F-word is forbidden in the MMORPG space. image

    image

  • cinoscinos LondonPosts: 963Member

    One of Taugrims comments:

    "GW2 addresses almost every design issue that I've had with the PVP systems of other games.

    1. there is meaningful 3-factionn World PVP, with capturable objectives (e.g. castles and towers)

    2. there is battleground PVP (aka Structured PVP) with a level playing field in terms of gear. Everyone has access to the same upgrade components

    3. there is no holy trinity so PVP outcomes for example are not driven by things like which side has more healers

    4. you can spec to have immunity to CC? if you wish"

     

    For number 4: Is that with runes, or certain traits in specific classes?

    I would gladly sacrifce dps, survivability and any kind of utility if it meant I could no longer be stunlocked. :p

  • MeowheadMeowhead New Carlisle, INPosts: 3,716Member

    Oh god, I read the title of this thread and a vein started throbbing on my forehead.  Hahahahahaha.

    So many threads where the person is legitimately asking that. xD

  • evilastroevilastro EdinburghPosts: 4,270Member

    I still play GW1 PvP when I need a PvP fix. I love that I can log in after being away for 6 months and still be competitive.

    All these threads about 'whats the point if there isn't better gear' really make me worried for the MMO community. Are they that brainwashed that they only play to get an upgrade?

    What ever happened to playing games for the fun of it?

  • xenogiasxenogias warsaw, INPosts: 1,926Member

    Sneaky. I was all ready to say "wtf another one of these really?!" lol

  • AmjocoAmjoco Layton, UTPosts: 4,777Member Uncommon

    Nice little video, ty!

    The title had me going also. How do you un-kick a dog?

    Death is nothing to us, since when we are, Death has not come, and when death has come, we are not.

  • Master10KMaster10K LondonPosts: 3,065Member
    Originally posted by Amjoco

    Nice little video, ty!

    The title had me going also. How do you un-kick a dog?

    Does the command "/unkick <name>" not  work? image

    image

  • plescureplescure leicesterPosts: 370Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Amjoco

    Nice little video, ty!

    The title had me going also. How do you un-kick a dog?

    this made me lol ^

    If someone is talking in general chat in a language you dont understand, chances are they're not talking to you. So chill out and stop bitching about it!

  • c-motc-mot FrankfurtPosts: 49Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by cinos

    One of Taugrims comments:

    "GW2 addresses almost every design issue that I've had with the PVP systems of other games.

    1. there is meaningful 3-factionn World PVP, with capturable objectives (e.g. castles and towers)

    2. there is battleground PVP (aka Structured PVP) with a level playing field in terms of gear. Everyone has access to the same upgrade components

    3. there is no holy trinity so PVP outcomes for example are not driven by things like which side has more healers

    4. you can spec to have immunity to CC? if you wish"

     

    For number 4: Is that with runes, or certain traits in specific classes?

    I would gladly sacrifce dps, survivability and any kind of utility if it meant I could no longer be stunlocked. :p


    i played ranger to 30+ and had several slot abilities that remove states actively and passively (ie. one ability will remove 1 state every 20 secs passively and removes i think upto 3 states immediatly when activated). as ranger you can also select a pet with anti-CC abilities (a brown bear for examples has a triggered skill that will remove a state from all friendly targets nearby).

    i am not sure if there are abilities that will give you real immunity to CC but as above there are many abilities that let you counter CC.

  • aesperusaesperus Hamshire, NVPosts: 5,128Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by cinos

    One of Taugrims comments:

    "GW2 addresses almost every design issue that I've had with the PVP systems of other games.

    1. there is meaningful 3-factionn World PVP, with capturable objectives (e.g. castles and towers)

    2. there is battleground PVP (aka Structured PVP) with a level playing field in terms of gear. Everyone has access to the same upgrade components

    3. there is no holy trinity so PVP outcomes for example are not driven by things like which side has more healers

    4. you can spec to have immunity to CC? if you wish"

     

    For number 4: Is that with runes, or certain traits in specific classes?

    I would gladly sacrifce dps, survivability and any kind of utility if it meant I could no longer be stunlocked. :p

    That's with certain traits / utilities.

    For example, the warrior has a trait to proc balanced stance (CC immunity) whenever you get CCed.

    It's important to note that it's never going to be permanent CC immunity. However, in some cases you can have up to around ~20 seconds or so of it with the right combination of skills and traits. You will be generally doing less damage, but a skilled player can still end most fights within 20 seconds.

  • stramastrama legazpiPosts: 14Member

    to have fun is the point. is that really too hard to grasp?

  • cinoscinos LondonPosts: 963Member
    Originally posted by strama

    to have fun is the point. is that really too hard to grasp?

    At least check the content of the op before commenting. :p

  • IndromeIndrome NortheimPosts: 292Member
    Originally posted by Amjoco

    Nice little video, ty!

    The title had me going also. How do you un-kick a dog?

    Bwahahaha! If I wasn't at work trying to look productive, I'd have lol'd. :D

     

    @OP:

    Thanks the vid, OP! If in the future trolls get all whats-the-point-y up in GW2's face, I'ma link 'em yo thread! Peace!

    (I am so happy to see "fun for having a blast" return to MMOs competitive side I am even reverting to swag-atude.)

    image

  • jdlamson75jdlamson75 Jacksonville, FLPosts: 984Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by strama

    to have fun is the point. is that really too hard to grasp?

    Slow down there, Tonto.  Read a bit before popping a vein in anger.

  • William12William12 Saint paul, MNPosts: 680Member

    except wvwvw isn't fun.  The first few hours was new and interesting, but after that it became a simple zerg fest and if you died it took 5m to get back into the fight.    The combat is the only aspect that makes it interesting otherwise its just like every other pvp game.

  • RequiamerRequiamer ???Posts: 2,034Member
    Originally posted by aesperus
    Originally posted by cinos

    One of Taugrims comments:

    "GW2 addresses almost every design issue that I've had with the PVP systems of other games.

    1. there is meaningful 3-factionn World PVP, with capturable objectives (e.g. castles and towers)

    2. there is battleground PVP (aka Structured PVP) with a level playing field in terms of gear. Everyone has access to the same upgrade components

    3. there is no holy trinity so PVP outcomes for example are not driven by things like which side has more healers

    4. you can spec to have immunity to CC? if you wish"

     

    For number 4: Is that with runes, or certain traits in specific classes?

    I would gladly sacrifce dps, survivability and any kind of utility if it meant I could no longer be stunlocked. :p

    That's with certain traits / utilities.

    For example, the warrior has a trait to proc balanced stance (CC immunity) whenever you get CCed.

    It's important to note that it's never going to be permanent CC immunity. However, in some cases you can have up to around ~20 seconds or so of it with the right combination of skills and traits. You will be generally doing less damage, but a skilled player can still end most fights within 20 seconds.

    On this point i actually made the suggestion to Anet to not have the CC stack in spvp (with a first come first serve basis), i hope they will listen, it will make group fight a lot better if only the first cc apply and the rest don't stack up untill the first one time out. It would probably eed to be tested to see what impact it have, but i would really want them to look into this. They have made a great work with cc in general and the game is improving compared to the heavy cc based mmo combat, but still i hope they can, and will put this kind of rule.

     

    PS (this is to promote and make 1vsX fight a lot better and interesting)

  • WizardryWizardry Ontario, CanadaPosts: 8,424Member Uncommon

    I agree it all makes sense from a PVP stand point,but i thought this was all about a ROLE PLAYING game?

    PVE is where the game and the GENRE matters.

    Then if a game has any depth at all,you have gear for various builds,not just a simple fighter build or a mage build but variations or each.

    I played PVP for years playing Quake/UT there is no gear,so as i said ,i do get it and it works for pvp.Even still if i was creative i would make it work,but it is MUCH easier to just eliminate anything that might need more work down the road.

    I will tell you what i think happened to this game.It was taking too long to get finished,they decided to scrap a lot of ideas,no mounts,no guild halls,no housing,remove the stat idea just go with the gear we have made.In essence  just get this game out for sale on what we have so far,this way we can always save stuff to sell in xpacs.

    You know what games have been doing for cosmetic gear?They have been selling that in the cash shops and EVERYONE on forums ,calls it meaningless.Now all of a sudden a game is using nothing but meaningless gear and it is a good design,is that not hypocritical?

    Before i go,i will say ,i also do understand looking cool or what ever,i do realize people like to look bad ass,but  that is up to the individual,that should not let the developer off the hook for lack of effort.

     


    Samoan Diamond

  • aesperusaesperus Hamshire, NVPosts: 5,128Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Wizardry

    I agree it all makes sense from a PVP stand point,but i thought this was all about a ROLE PLAYING game?

    PVE is where the game and the GENRE matters.

    Then if a game has any depth at all,you have gear for various builds,not just a simple fighter build or a mage build but variations or each.

    I played PVP for years playing Quake/UT there is no gear,so as i said ,i do get it and it works for pvp.Even still if i was creative i would make it work,but it is MUCH easier to just eliminate anything that might need more work down the road.

    I will tell you what i think happened to this game.It was taking too long to get finished,they decided to scrap a lot of ideas,no mounts,no guild halls,no housing,remove the stat idea just go with the gear we have made.In essence  just get this game out for sale on what we have so far,this way we can always save stuff to sell in xpacs.

    You know what games have been doing for cosmetic gear?They have been selling that in the cash shops and EVERYONE on forums ,calls it meaningless.Now all of a sudden a game is using nothing but meaningless gear and it is a good design,is that not hypocritical?

    Before i go,i will say ,i also do understand looking cool or what ever,i do realize people like to look bad ass,but  that is up to the individual,that should not let the developer off the hook for lack of effort.

    Well, a lot of that is personal preference, however the gear thing works about the same in both PvP and PvE.

    The big difference is that in PvP you are doing that cosmetics grind right from the start, in PvE there is a ramp-up to 80 first. PvE has a lot of different types of armor and such, though, so there is a lot of customization a vailable.

  • ButregenyoButregenyo IstanbulPosts: 483Member

    S?mply amaz?ng and my cup of cake, mystic forge just spiced the things up too... Cannot wait to fill up my pvp locker, also legendaries :P. This will be the hardest 20 days of my life.....

  • atticusbcatticusbc Burlington, VTPosts: 1,069Member
    Originally posted by William12

    except wvwvw isn't fun.  The first few hours was new and interesting, but after that it became a simple zerg fest and if you died it took 5m to get back into the fight.    The combat is the only aspect that makes it interesting otherwise its just like every other pvp game.

     

    it's a bit of a zergfest at the moment, but once there's actual motivation to play well (i.e. after launch) i'm sure we'll see it become a lot more in depth. it's all a matter of how players choose to play.
  • DanitaKusorDanitaKusor AdelaidePosts: 549Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by William12

    except wvwvw isn't fun.  The first few hours was new and interesting, but after that it became a simple zerg fest and if you died it took 5m to get back into the fight.    The combat is the only aspect that makes it interesting otherwise its just like every other pvp game.

    While I had some complaints about aspects of WvW (mostly repairs and XP/gold rewards being too low at times) it can be very fun.

    One example,

    I arrived in the Red Borderlands late on Sunday after a long siege in the Eteneral Battlegrounds that was going nowhere and had been going nowhere most of the day.

    We held nothing at all in this zone and there were about 5 of our team here.  I had a stack of various siege weapons so decided to see what I could stir up.

    First I organised the team to take a supply camp near Dreaming Bay (one of 3 large keeps in the zone).  From there we took Greenbriar a nearby tower and while the team ran off to take another supply camp, I started setting up a trebuchet at the top on Greenbriar on this wall that ran out in the direction of Dreaming Bay on a hunch.

    Around this time the blue team turned up to see why we had taken their keep so I couldn't complete the trebuchet. Fortunately along with them came some more of my teammates, so we had about 12 or 15 in the zone now.  A fun battle ensued which lasted 15 or 20mins and used up a couple of my smaller siege weapons.  In the end we now have a well defended tower in the zone and the blue team had run off towards Bluelake, the sister tower to the one we had claimed.  My team went after them.

    I ran off to the supply camp and escorted a couple of caravans back to our tower so I could complete the trebuchet.  That done, I got my team to distract the enemy at Bluelake while I attacked the gate of Dreaming Bay (also held by the evil blue team) and my hunch paid off I could just hit it at max range with my Trebuchet.  A short time later the gate was done so I ran off with 3 others to take the castle.

    It was around now I discover the size of the castle we were trying to take and had to swim across the shark infested waters.  So we called the team back from Bluelake which they weren't taking and let the blue team think we had been run off.  Shortly after 10 more people turned up at Dreaming Bay and we took the keep.

    Now we had to hold it, because the red team had just arrived and were eying our freshly painted keep and looking mean.  Two hours of bloody warfare followed as we lost the outer walls twice and had to retreat to the main keep.  I used up a balista, 2 arrow carts and a catapult and someone else also supplied an arrow cart and catapult and we now had a heavily defended keep so kept driving the red team back and out of the gate and then back they would come for another try.  Later they tried a feint, heading for Greenbriar which we still held and our last remaining supply camp which we needed to keep Dreaming Bay running and when we went to stop them they hit the keep again, although fortunately we were wise to their tricks and managed to hold everything except the supply camp which we later took back.

    The end result was a 4 hour long PvP session where we went from holding nothing to taking a tower, a keep and 2 supply camps and holding them for another 2 hours (maybe longer, I went to bed at 1am so didn't see what happened after that). We had most 15 players on our side and the blue team had a similar number, while the reds were fielding up to 25 or 30 people during their assaults on Dreaming Bay and elsewhere.

    It seems a bit stale writing about it now, but it was probably the most fun I've had in PvP for a long long time and erased a lot of the doubts that had build up over the previous 2 days. I didn't die once in the four hour encounter I had above (was level 21 at the time with a survival build and defensive utility skills). Looking forward to release now for sure.

    The Enlightened take things Lightly

  • GrahorGrahor aaaPosts: 828Member
    Originally posted by atticusbc
    Originally posted by William12

    except wvwvw isn't fun.  The first few hours was new and interesting, but after that it became a simple zerg fest and if you died it took 5m to get back into the fight.    The combat is the only aspect that makes it interesting otherwise its just like every other pvp game.

     

    it's a bit of a zergfest at the moment, but once there's actual motivation to play well (i.e. after launch) i'm sure we'll see it become a lot more in depth. it's all a matter of how players choose to play.

    Then it will forever remain a zergfest.

     

    If it can be done easily as a zergfest, what exactly is this motivation to play well?

  • IcewhiteIcewhite Elmhurst, ILPosts: 6,403Member
    Originally posted by Master10K
    Originally posted by chelan

    gahd forbid the point should be ... dare i speak its name? ... fun.

    Shhh~ The F-word is forbidden in the MMORPG space. image

    Possibly because it's defined several thousand different ways, just by the "regulars" alone.

    Semantic null value.

    Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.

  • ZeroxinZeroxin LondonPosts: 2,521Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Grahor
    Originally posted by atticusbc
    Originally posted by William12

    except wvwvw isn't fun.  The first few hours was new and interesting, but after that it became a simple zerg fest and if you died it took 5m to get back into the fight.    The combat is the only aspect that makes it interesting otherwise its just like every other pvp game.

     

    it's a bit of a zergfest at the moment, but once there's actual motivation to play well (i.e. after launch) i'm sure we'll see it become a lot more in depth. it's all a matter of how players choose to play.

    Then it will forever remain a zergfest.

     

    If it can be done easily as a zergfest, what exactly is this motivation to play well?

    It can't be done easily as a zergfest, supply camps have to be held and REMAIN held, siege weapons have to be built and used, sustained healing and projectile deflection/reflection/blocking has to be employed. The zerg cannot manage that without some sort of organization and if they employ that kind of organization, they can no longer be called a zerg.

    This is not a game.

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