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This could really be the end of Vanguard

delete5230delete5230 Posts: 2,963Member Uncommon

I'm not a marketer, however I should be because I and many of you could do a better job than SOE.

 

Decisions are by far not making any sense for both players and SOE to make a profit :

1) The Secret World was just released......GuildWars 2 releasing in August.....World of Warcraft's Panda thing is soon.  Now is not a good time for Vanguard F2P.  Like it or not Guild Wars 2 is gaining speed fast and will be a hit, if for any reason at all it's Buy-To-Play..........NOW IS THE WORST TIME IN HISTORY for any bold move by SOE to release Vanguard F2P.

2) The Vanguard F2P matrix is extremely harsh.

3) People complaining about the F2P restrictions obviously were planning on playing Vanguard ONLY for free.  Now come on what kind of mmo would Vanguard be if everyone were not purchasing any thing from the cash shop.  How do you expect to run dungeons.  Dungeons are the hart and sole of the game.  Without them Vanguard is just another " kill five rats and bring the tails back to me " mmo.

4) I can surly say that 70% here waiting for F2P are pure F2P band wagon jumpers, with no intentions of paying a dime. Come on, you know it's true.  You see them all the time is general discussion asking for the best F2P mmo, even SWTOR gets it's share of spam every few days " when is this game going f2P ".  That's just down right obnoxious thinking SWTOR will go F2P anytime soon.....Just more prof that most don't plan of paying a dime.  Again what kind of world would Vanguard be with all the F2P gimped players around you !

5) SOE is still not advertising it's new version of Vanguard.  It's still word-of-mouth.  Sure we know, we are here on mmorpg.com to search out alternatives. Were the hard core mmo players. As robust as this site is we are the minority.

THINK ABOUT THIS, AND TRY AND PROVE ME WRONG..........Ask anyone in your real life if they know what Vanguard is. Their answer would be " what ? "..........Yet most everyone knows about World of Warcraft even if they don't play, or even care about video games. " Oh ya, my son plays that silly game ". Soon the word on the street will be Guild Wars 2 like it or not.

SOE never advertises never did. But their head's are so big, it can't fit through the door !

 

Maybe SOE turned some kind of profit with all other F2P mmo's, if not Vanguard would not be worth the time, money or effort...........But now is not the time.  Bad timing, just bad.

 

 

Comments

  • delete5230delete5230 Posts: 2,963Member Uncommon

    Here is a good quot from the many bitching about the F2P on SOE's forum :

     

     

    People defending the matrix have this bizarre idea that Vanguard sells itself, but it doesn't. If it did, the game would not be in a "F2P or die" situation. For the last 3 years, anyone could have gotten a VG box for ~$4 shipped from Amazon with 30 days of unrestricted gameplay. You used to be able to buy collector's boxes for <$10.

    Now suddenly for $0, an 18gb download, and crippled gameplay, people are going to come in droves and buy gold subs or dump $50/month at cash shops? Lol.

    Vanguard does not sell itself.

    Why are people going to pay to unlock restrictions so they can play a game they weren't interested in playing in the first place? For next to nothing, people could already experience cheaper... what they plan to offer after shelling out much more $ via 'restriction lifting.' Sounds like a dumb play to me. People are going to drop a few dollars to unlock HL orange gear, or to wear some crafted? Lol.

    That reality raises the question as to why the overbearing restrictions. IMO, the owners of Vanguard, imo, just overvalue Vanguard. It's a 5 year old game. It's not getting any younger, it's not running any better, and everyday bugs are now working on their 5 year anniversary. Gold access to it, after years of neglect and lack of development, isn't worth $15 to anyone w/o a sub. The masses have spoken that already based on whatever their subscription numbers are. F2P isn't going to cause a surge in 'gold' members. I'm sure Brad's return will get more loyalists than that F2p matrix.

    I would have lowered VG "gold" sub to $9.99. $10 is a psychological level, the $15 is just too much for what VG is. However, I would have kept the $15 level though. For this platinum level, I'd offer $5 worth of Station Cash every month, double bank space, a 4th bag slot, and a 25% stacking xp modifier across all spheres on the account. 

  • StonesDKStonesDK SomewherePosts: 1,805Member

    Only thing I would add is this

     

    People who play for free never wanting to pay a dime is not a scourge of F2P games. For Vanguard to succeed, it needs a population. Wether that's paying customers or freeloaders is irrelevant. Even a free player is good for a game, simply by being present and you being able to interact with the individual.

     

    If the F2P part of the game is so agressive, playing for free is discouraged with far too many restrictions, the only thing the game is left with is paying customers. Contrary to popular belief is not the biggest population of F2P MMOs. You can argue that SoE needs to earn money on this but as I stated in previous paragraph, free players perform a service for the game as well. An important one at that too. The game has to be worth it for them as well

  • MawneeMawnee Spring Hill, FLPosts: 197Member Uncommon

    This game needs moar  "hart and sole"

  • sri_rishabhsri_rishabh Bellevue, WAPosts: 56Member

    The FTP matrix changes doen today make things a lot better for FTP players... 

    It should help more players try VG now and I am sure if they play it , they will be hooked it. At least they have given it chance now with latest updates...

  • SlampigSlampig Chantilly, VAPosts: 2,376Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by delete5230

    I'm not a marketer, however I should be because I and many of you could do a better job than SOE.

     

    Decisions are by far not making any sense for both players and SOE to make a profit :

    1) The Secret World was just released......GuildWars 2 releasing in August.....World of Warcraft's Panda thing is soon.  Now is not a good time for Vanguard F2P.  Like it or not Guild Wars 2 is gaining speed fast and will be a hit, if for any reason at all it's Buy-To-Play..........NOW IS THE WORST TIME IN HISTORY for any bold move by SOE to release Vanguard F2P.

    2) The Vanguard F2P matrix is extremely harsh.

    3) People complaining about the F2P restrictions obviously were planning on playing Vanguard ONLY for free.  Now come on what kind of mmo would Vanguard be if everyone were not purchasing any thing from the cash shop.  How do you expect to run dungeons.  Dungeons are the hart and sole of the game.  Without them Vanguard is just another " kill five rats and bring the tails back to me " mmo.

    4) I can surly say that 70% here waiting for F2P are pure F2P band wagon jumpers, with no intentions of paying a dime. Come on, you know it's true.  You see them all the time is general discussion asking for the best F2P mmo, even SWTOR gets it's share of spam every few days " when is this game going f2P ".  That's just down right obnoxious thinking SWTOR will go F2P anytime soon.....Just more prof that most don't plan of paying a dime.  Again what kind of world would Vanguard be with all the F2P gimped players around you !

    5) SOE is still not advertising it's new version of Vanguard.  It's still word-of-mouth.  Sure we know, we are here on mmorpg.com to search out alternatives. Were the hard core mmo players. As robust as this site is we are the minority.

    THINK ABOUT THIS, AND TRY AND PROVE ME WRONG..........Ask anyone in your real life if they know what Vanguard is. Their answer would be " what ? "..........Yet most everyone knows about World of Warcraft even if they don't play, or even care about video games. " Oh ya, my son plays that silly game ". Soon the word on the street will be Guild Wars 2 like it or not.

    SOE never advertises never did. But their head's are so big, it can't fit through the door !

     

    Maybe SOE turned some kind of profit with all other F2P mmo's, if not Vanguard would not be worth the time, money or effort...........But now is not the time.  Bad timing, just bad.

     

     

    Have you been to the games site? They even had an interview linked on this site... Far from word of mouth.

    And the game is going free-to-play, there will be plenty of people giving it a try regardless of Guild Wars 2 or any other game, the key word is free.

     

    That Guild Wars 2 login screen knocked up my wife. Must be the second coming!

  • Garvon3Garvon3 Worcester, MAPosts: 2,898Member
    Originally posted by delete5230

    I'm not a marketer, however I should be because I and many of you could do a better job than SOE.

     

    Decisions are by far not making any sense for both players and SOE to make a profit :

     

    2) The Vanguard F2P matrix is extremely harsh.

    3) People complaining about the F2P restrictions obviously were planning on playing Vanguard ONLY for free.  Now come on what kind of mmo would Vanguard be if everyone were not purchasing any thing from the cash shop.  How do you expect to run dungeons.  Dungeons are the hart and sole of the game.  Without them Vanguard is just another " kill five rats and bring the tails back to me " mmo.

     

     

    Errr.... dungeons are included in the game. Are you thinking about LotRO's horrible FTP model? Only big restriction on Vanguard is items.

  • sri_rishabhsri_rishabh Bellevue, WAPosts: 56Member

    Item restriction have been moved up now...here are the changes..

     

     

    • For COIN allowance, we bumped the coin limit from 1 plat to 3 plat for FREE players.
    • For ITEMS, we included "Uncommon and higher" for FREE players. Some items will still be limited but it will be on a case by case basis.
    • For In-game Mailing, we give FREE players full access, but at higher mailing rates.
    • For CHAT, we give FREE players full access.
    • For the BROKER system, we give FREE players full access, but at higher broker fees for placing items up for sale.
  • ReizlaReizla AlkmaarPosts: 3,301Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by delete5230

    Here is a good quot from the many bitching about the F2P on SOE's forum :

     

    People defending the matrix have this bizarre idea that Vanguard sells itself, but it doesn't. If it did, the game would not be in a "F2P or die" situation. For the last 3 years, anyone could have gotten a VG box for ~$4 shipped from Amazon with 30 days of unrestricted gameplay. You used to be able to buy collector's boxes for <$10.

    Now suddenly for $0, an 18gb download, and crippled gameplay, people are going to come in droves and buy gold subs or dump $50/month at cash shops? Lol.

    Vanguard does not sell itself.

    Why are people going to pay to unlock restrictions so they can play a game they weren't interested in playing in the first place? For next to nothing, people could already experience cheaper... what they plan to offer after shelling out much more $ via 'restriction lifting.' Sounds like a dumb play to me. People are going to drop a few dollars to unlock HL orange gear, or to wear some crafted? Lol.

    That reality raises the question as to why the overbearing restrictions. IMO, the owners of Vanguard, imo, just overvalue Vanguard. It's a 5 year old game. It's not getting any younger, it's not running any better, and everyday bugs are now working on their 5 year anniversary. Gold access to it, after years of neglect and lack of development, isn't worth $15 to anyone w/o a sub. The masses have spoken that already based on whatever their subscription numbers are. F2P isn't going to cause a surge in 'gold' members. I'm sure Brad's return will get more loyalists than that F2p matrix.

    I would have lowered VG "gold" sub to $9.99. $10 is a psychological level, the $15 is just too much for what VG is. However, I would have kept the $15 level though. For this platinum level, I'd offer $5 worth of Station Cash every month, double bank space, a 4th bag slot, and a 25% stacking xp modifier across all spheres on the account. 

    Kinda what I said when the F2P announcement was posted as news topic on these forums, and some ppl here made fun of me for that kind of statement...

    I agree... Vanguard as F2P with this matrix will not help the game a bit. And as I said in the news topic, I think most subscribing players will leave the game now that it'll go F2P...

    AsRock 990FX Extreme3
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  • VoiidiinVoiidiin Barrow, AKPosts: 817Member
    Originally posted by delete5230

    I'm not a marketer, however I should be because I and many of you could do a better job than SOE.

     

    Decisions are by far not making any sense for both players and SOE to make a profit :

    1) The Secret World was just released......GuildWars 2 releasing in August.....World of Warcraft's Panda thing is soon.  Now is not a good time for Vanguard F2P.  Like it or not Guild Wars 2 is gaining speed fast and will be a hit, if for any reason at all it's Buy-To-Play..........NOW IS THE WORST TIME IN HISTORY for any bold move by SOE to release Vanguard F2P.

    2) The Vanguard F2P matrix is extremely harsh.

    3) People complaining about the F2P restrictions obviously were planning on playing Vanguard ONLY for free.  Now come on what kind of mmo would Vanguard be if everyone were not purchasing any thing from the cash shop.  How do you expect to run dungeons.  Dungeons are the hart and sole of the game.  Without them Vanguard is just another " kill five rats and bring the tails back to me " mmo.

    4) I can surly say that 70% here waiting for F2P are pure F2P band wagon jumpers, with no intentions of paying a dime. Come on, you know it's true.  You see them all the time is general discussion asking for the best F2P mmo, even SWTOR gets it's share of spam every few days " when is this game going f2P ".  That's just down right obnoxious thinking SWTOR will go F2P anytime soon.....Just more prof that most don't plan of paying a dime.  Again what kind of world would Vanguard be with all the F2P gimped players around you !

    5) SOE is still not advertising it's new version of Vanguard.  It's still word-of-mouth.  Sure we know, we are here on mmorpg.com to search out alternatives. Were the hard core mmo players. As robust as this site is we are the minority.

    THINK ABOUT THIS, AND TRY AND PROVE ME WRONG..........Ask anyone in your real life if they know what Vanguard is. Their answer would be " what ? "..........Yet most everyone knows about World of Warcraft even if they don't play, or even care about video games. " Oh ya, my son plays that silly game ". Soon the word on the street will be Guild Wars 2 like it or not.

    SOE never advertises never did. But their head's are so big, it can't fit through the door !

     

    Maybe SOE turned some kind of profit with all other F2P mmo's, if not Vanguard would not be worth the time, money or effort...........But now is not the time.  Bad timing, just bad.

     

     

    Umm sorry any change to Vanguard is something needed. The game has been on life support for years now, and the F2P is a last attempt by SOE to salvage the game and make it something more than what it is now.

    Clearly you have not seen how well switching over poor performing games to a F2P model brings in much needed capitol for servers, payroll, and quite possibly future content.

    Honestly, if SOE just left things as they were GW2 and any of the other games releasing soon, or recently released would not have a single impact on those already playing vanguard, those players are playing Vanguard cause they love it and would continue no matter what game came out.

    In fact quite the ooposite will happen and more players will jump into Vanguard and try it out, providing those who end up liking it an inexpensive way to get into the game.

    Lolipops !

  • DashiDMVDashiDMV Not Saying, QCPosts: 362Member
    Originally posted by sri_rishabh

    Item restriction have been moved up now...here are the changes..

     

     

    • For COIN allowance, we bumped the coin limit from 1 plat to 3 plat for FREE players.
    • For ITEMS, we included "Uncommon and higher" for FREE players. Some items will still be limited but it will be on a case by case basis.
    • For In-game Mailing, we give FREE players full access, but at higher mailing rates.
    • For CHAT, we give FREE players full access.
    • For the BROKER system, we give FREE players full access, but at higher broker fees for placing items up for sale.

    Greetings Everyone!

    As we continue to progress toward the Free-to-Play transition, we are considering making a few changes to our Free-to-Play matrix. Below are some of the ideas we are discussing internally. We'd love to add your feedback to the mix before we make any decisions! Please note that this thread will be heavily moderated to ensure useful, constructive feedback.

     

    They haven't said officially yet that they are adding these, they could still decide not to and just use this to get some extra hype. If they do add them, it would be a nice start emphasis on START. They still have a ways to go.

     

    They really need to consider a middle tier for those who have subbed and those who pay. Add a little bit more to at least show the people that paid that VG recognizes they contributed at one point and doesn't treat them like they are nothing.

     

    You add the middle tier and the more liberal first tier, now you have players coming in, vets don't start at the ground floor but get a little boost. The vets see new players and if that was the main reason for leaving, now they have a reason to sub again and the new players that play with the vets will see progress and be encouraged to move up one tier or even go right to sub.

     

    This stuff feeds off itself in a positive way. You always give people the choice and a softer cusion if they lapse instead of just locking everything back up. The need people and they need to cast the net as wide as they can, not try to nickel and dime and hope they keep their subs and add a few thousand more. It looks like VG will get one last fair chance and if this doesn't work probably some guys get moved to EQ Next or another project and the rest canned. I can't see them waiting long for results.

    Well probably still at least one month or more until launch so hopeully they can continue the positive direction and get the matrix more flashed out.

     

    I wuld have put some of these thoughts up on the official forums but of course they make you pay to post so hopefully the message gets there by proxy.

  • sri_rishabhsri_rishabh Bellevue, WAPosts: 56Member
    Originally

     I wuld have put some of these thoughts up on the official forums but of course they make you pay to post so hopefully the message gets there by proxy.

    You need not be subscribed to post...just try

  • DashiDMVDashiDMV Not Saying, QCPosts: 362Member

    Tried from 2 accounts. A post or reply button never shows up.

  • KilsinKilsin NSWPosts: 346Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by delete5230

    Here is a good quot from the many bitching about the F2P on SOE's forum :

     

     

    People defending the matrix have this bizarre idea that Vanguard sells itself, but it doesn't. If it did, the game would not be in a "F2P or die" situation. For the last 3 years, anyone could have gotten a VG box for ~$4 shipped from Amazon with 30 days of unrestricted gameplay. You used to be able to buy collector's boxes for <$10.

    Now suddenly for $0, an 18gb download, and crippled gameplay, people are going to come in droves and buy gold subs or dump $50/month at cash shops? Lol.

    Vanguard does not sell itself.

    Why are people going to pay to unlock restrictions so they can play a game they weren't interested in playing in the first place? For next to nothing, people could already experience cheaper... what they plan to offer after shelling out much more $ via 'restriction lifting.' Sounds like a dumb play to me. People are going to drop a few dollars to unlock HL orange gear, or to wear some crafted? Lol.

    That reality raises the question as to why the overbearing restrictions. IMO, the owners of Vanguard, imo, just overvalue Vanguard. It's a 5 year old game. It's not getting any younger, it's not running any better, and everyday bugs are now working on their 5 year anniversary. Gold access to it, after years of neglect and lack of development, isn't worth $15 to anyone w/o a sub. The masses have spoken that already based on whatever their subscription numbers are. F2P isn't going to cause a surge in 'gold' members. I'm sure Brad's return will get more loyalists than that F2p matrix.

    I would have lowered VG "gold" sub to $9.99. $10 is a psychological level, the $15 is just too much for what VG is. However, I would have kept the $15 level though. For this platinum level, I'd offer $5 worth of Station Cash every month, double bank space, a 4th bag slot, and a 25% stacking xp modifier across all spheres on the account. 

    Why the hell would you quote Dielle of all people?

    Your OP is opinion and speculation, nothing more. SOE have F2P models already and make good money from them, their profits are readily available to see for yourself.

    This is a good time as players look ahead at other games and want to try other games out, being able to do that for free is always a good hook to get people in and VG is a great game, it can suck you into the lore and depth pretty quick and before you know it your leveling up, creating new classes, crafting, diploing and having a blast.

    Vanguard is in need of attention and as much as I hate F2P, I think this will help bring in the much needed players to fill the server up again.

    Most of us will remain subscribed and just enjoy the company from new players.

    VG was far from dying though as Dielle so over dramatically put it, VG was not even on life support, it was getting by slowly, making profit but with a low and steady population.

    This will hopefully be the boost we need to spread the word to get more players and get some much needed Developer love.

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