Why do you think it will disapear? option to join multiple guilds? No GvG? Lack of HoH victory broadcast?
The option to join multiple guild is a turn off for me but as with everything else in GW2 I'm willing to be open minded and test it out to see how it works out.
The lack of traditional GvG is more concerning imo. Sure you can run a Tournament team filled with guild members but the focus in on the team and not the guild itself.
And the "no name" policy on the W v W seems kinda annoying to me but since the Guild tag is shown it wont be that bad.
As for capturing Keeps in the name of the guild. Thats a nice feature but only if the keeps wont change hand every few minutes. WAR had a similar system but with keeps changing hands so often it was kinda pointless (at least when I was playing it).
Why include all the polotics, tedium, DKP, second job-esque mentality and linear pre-planned progression that eschews surprise and adventure in favor of standing in a room memorizing dance steps when we now have a system that lets tons of people come together for gigantic, spur of the moment boss fights in which everyone that plays a part is rewarded and we no longer spend half the night standing around waiting inbetween the few bouts of Simon-Says that most raid fights are?
We have the giant world bosses and a system that let's armies of players all fight them without any of the previously required bullshit, why drag the bullshit along?
The ability to grab a large group of players, co-ordinate and go tackle giant world bosses is there, that's always been the aim of raiding, the excess BS that came along with it was just an unattractive byproduct of flawed systems. People that need that part of raiding have tons of games already catering to them.
I've always preferred group content over raids which began to feel contrived once they were stripped down to their basics and repeated over and over in the same form for about a decade.
Raids were a lot of fun for me when they were a special occasion and a rare event (few raid targets that were both contested and on very long respawn timers, raiding every night was not even an option), once they became the mapped out predictable grind that most games inevitably revolved around, the adventure was gone.
GW2 in its current form allows for that large scale battle scenario without any of the predictability, routine and tedious preperation/standing around, and that suits me perfectly. Raids spawned a specific social climate that was very comparable across multiple games, multiple guilds and over many years - sure some atmospheres are better than others, but overall from EQ2, EQ, WoW, Lotro, Swtor, FFXI, Rift, AoC and whatever others I'm forgetting, the experience and atmosphere was very similar.
I never found that large impersonal atmosphere even close to as enjoyable as what you get when you throw 5-6 people at a true challenge and a limited selection of abilities. Contributions are more readily apparent, people aren't just numbers in a raid frame, and it fostered a sense of camaraderie that large raid forces never matched. Despite, at various times, being in the absolute top guilds on my EQ server, WoW server and Rift server, I never once appreciated or enjoyed any raid victories anywhere near as much as I did smaller group accomplishments.
Actually that was very lightly put, to be more direct I'd say hell yes, raids really are that bad. What raids became were a contrived joke and I'm glad they'll be nowhere near GW2, as ArenaNet have managed to include group content that's challenging and reliant on teamwork, large scale PvE batles, even larger WvW battles, and all without a hint of the bullshit tedium that goes along with traditional raiding.
Why include all the polotics, tedium, DKP, second job-esque mentality and linear pre-planned progression that eschews surprise and adventure in favor of standing in a room memorizing dance steps when we now have a system that lets tons of people come together for gigantic, spur of the moment boss fights in which everyone that plays a part is rewarded and we no longer spend half the night standing around waiting inbetween the few bouts of Simon-Says that most raid fights are?
We have the giant world bosses and a system that let's armies of players all fight them without any of the previously required bullshit, why drag the bullshit along?
The ability to grab a large group of players, co-ordinate and go tackle giant world bosses is there, that's always been the aim of raiding, the excess BS that came along with it was just an unattractive byproduct of flawed systems. People that need that part of raiding have tons of games already catering to them.
I've always preferred group content over raids which began to feel contrived once they were stripped down to their basics and repeated over and over in the same form for about a decade.
Raids were a lot of fun for me when they were a special occasion and a rare event (few raid targets that were both contested and on very long respawn timers, raiding every night was not even an option), once they became the mapped out predictable grind that most games inevitably revolved around, the adventure was gone.
GW2 in its current form allows for that large scale battle scenario without any of the predictability, routine and tedious preperation/standing around, and that suits me perfectly. Raids spawned a specific social climate that was very comparable across multiple games, multiple guilds and over many years - sure some atmospheres are better than others, but overall from EQ2, EQ, WoW, Lotro, Swtor, FFXI, Rift, AoC and whatever others I'm forgetting, the experience and atmosphere was very similar.
I never found that large impersonal atmosphere even close to as enjoyable as what you get when you throw 5-6 people at a true challenge and a limited selection of abilities. Contributions are more readily apparent, people aren't just numbers in a raid frame, and it fostered a sense of camaraderie that large raid forces never matched. Despite, at various times, being in the absolute top guilds on my EQ server, WoW server and Rift server, I never once appreciated or enjoyed any raid victories anywhere near as much as I did smaller group accomplishments.
Actually that was very lightly put, to be more direct I'd say hell yes, raids really are that bad. What raids became were a contrived joke and I'm glad they'll be nowhere near GW2, as ArenaNet have managed to include group content that's challenging and reliant on teamwork, large scale PvE batles, even larger WvW battles, and all without a hint of the bullshit tedium that goes along with traditional raiding.
this is all well and good. but the bosses need to be super easy as we saw with the shadow behemoth or players will get super fed up with all the noobs that just dont pull their weight or continue failing. There is a reason why raids workand it is because people follow the raid leaders instruuctions. And no way will you get a bunch of people who randomly join the event to do exactly as they should be. Thats why either this will fail or most of these bosses will be super easy face roll. Thats just a fact.
this is all well and good. but the bosses need to be super easy as we saw with the shadow behemoth or players will get super fed up with all the noobs that just dont pull their weight or continue failing. There is a reason why raids workand it is because people follow the raid leaders instruuctions. And no way will you get a bunch of people who randomly join the event to do exactly as they should be. Thats why either this will fail or most of these bosses will be super easy face roll. Thats just a fact.
Shadow Behemoth is a level 15 encounter.
I know Anet said end game starts at level 1, but that doesn't change the fact there is a learning curve.
Still, I keep reading complains that people can't just get out of green goo - shadow behemoth fight requires loads of that (although it is red circles).
There is also a major difference - GW2 allows for scrappy less than perfect wins while in most other games it as to be perfect or is a fail, so not all of the players need to do their job 100% (which is fun because the major responsability in raids fall to the tank and the healer), just a reasonable amount of players.
Another factor is there are NPCs around a good chunk of the time, calling the attention of players to important details.
I'll wait to see it before calling it impossible.
Currently playing: GW2 Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders
this is all well and good. but the bosses need to be super easy as we saw with the shadow behemoth or players will get super fed up with all the noobs that just dont pull their weight or continue failing. There is a reason why raids workand it is because people follow the raid leaders instruuctions. And no way will you get a bunch of people who randomly join the event to do exactly as they should be. Thats why either this will fail or most of these bosses will be super easy face roll. Thats just a fact.
The Shadow Behemoth is an easy encounter because scaling doesn't work properly on it. Try the Champion Svanir Marauder at the Norn area. It took 20+ people and lots of coordinated strikes/rezzes to kill him.
Block the trolls, don't answer them, so we can remove the garbage from these forums
Why can't raiding be skilled based and have a minior gear climb?
There's the problem. Either the best gear comes from raiding, or else it doesn't. You're proposing that it should. People interested in GW2 tend not to be looking for a generic WoW-clone--and mandatory raiding is one of the major complaints about WoW-clones.
Has there ever been a raiding game where you didn't have to go raiding to get the best gear? My experience has been that raiders insist that raiding should give the best gear, and getting the best gear in the game is most of the point of raiding. Most won't explicitly admit that, but will implicitly admit it when they claim that raiding needs to give the best gear, as otherwise, no one would do it.
not really cause anet never do the clone wow type of game and in gw2 i would say the raid probably give you a unike skin on armor that wont be any advantage from others armor or game system just cosmetic ,but still anet dont want to put raid atleast for now ithink ..but they can give unike skin but not somthing that make you advantage from other type or armor (just an armor whit no stat to combine whit trasmutation stone for skin ) wish it would be great . but if anet dont want is kk i dont mind the raid and waste time forming grp and waste hours.
this is all well and good. but the bosses need to be super easy as we saw with the shadow behemoth or players will get super fed up with all the noobs that just dont pull their weight or continue failing. There is a reason why raids workand it is because people follow the raid leaders instruuctions. And no way will you get a bunch of people who randomly join the event to do exactly as they should be. Thats why either this will fail or most of these bosses will be super easy face roll. Thats just a fact.
First off, that's a logical fallacy. They do not need to make events super easy so players dont get fed up with other players not pulling their weight, that's a conclusion you came to and is reflected nowhere in ArenaNets design. Clearly they're interested in maintaining a level of challenge rather than catering to the lowest common denominator - their answer to the cries of 'it's too hard!!' is to do a better job educating new players rather than lowering the difficulty of content.
There's nothing stopping people from tackling these events as a guild, with adedicated raid leader, and no, the world bosses are not all as easy as (the introductory world boss for mid to late teens) Shadow Behemoth, who also wasn't scaling properly.
Raids work, in your opinion. I disagree. I think they're a pathetic miserable failure of what they could have been. GW2 does a much better job of presenting players with giant bosses suited for large forces than anything I've seen post Kunark in EQ. That's a hell of a long time for all of the various games to beat at the exact same tired cliche of a mechanic that's so contrived it doesn't even make sense anymore. Also, as it's being provided just about everywhere else, and ArenaNet is clearly not interested in doing the same old thing, why would they even consider including something like raids that goes directly against so much of their core design philosophies outlined for GW2?
The raid cliche doesn't need to be perpetuated in GW2, they've delivered large scale encounters capable of engaging tons of players at the same time without the tedium associated with the traditional raid cliche. They've also dedicated explorable mode dungeons for those of us that are after a challenge that's greater than open world content.
I'm glad the challenging content will be aimed at small groups of players rather than faceless armies, I find it a much more enjoyable atmosphere and am very glad they've decided to flip the bird to traditional raids. Judging by the amount of interest in a game devoid of traditional e-peen treadmill, it looks like they made a good choice.
Also, taking entire communities out of a world that relies on players to perpetuate its mechanics, and tucking them away into their own private raid instances, would defeat their entire world design. We'd end up with just another hub game where players sit around on their mounts in town waiting to be ported in to their raid instance and the entire world they built might as well not even exist.
Raiding might or might not be bad, depending on who you ask, but it'd clearly be bad for the world ArenaNet built this time around. There's just no place for the raid cliche in this games structure.
Someone who really likes raiding will not accept this as a substitue
then F them seriously, go play WOW or rift or EQ2 or the other dozen or so games out there with the standard raiding format.
and to reply to someone earlier who said you aren't forced to raid, on the contrary you are forced to raid if you want to progress your character thats why i quit Rift, i got max level, did the dungeons got the most powerful drops i could from the dungeons (mind you this is within the first couple months of the game) and basically had nothing else to do except run battlegrounds. I refused to join a raid guild because i refused to stoop to that level again (yes i was apart and even part of the leader council for one in EQ2).
so my progression of my character stopped, my choices were Raid or Reroll, since i refused to do either I quit the game. My wife is having this exact problem in EQ2 she can't dedicated the time to a raid guild but is pretty much maxed out.
so yes people are forced to raid whether you want to believe it or not in order to progress their character.
Controlled, scripted environment, with a solution players need to find.
Obviously any AI will sooner or later be figured and defeated.
The other use of raids has been time sinks - they take to organize, rewards are few, they have raid locks, etc.
All this will keep people paying the sub fee.
GW2 has grind, but it is mostly optional grind for those needing a goal other than liking the game play experience (which probably is more adictive than most other MMORPGs being more situational and active)
If that isn't enough to keep enough players active (alongside WvW and sPvP) I'm sure Anet will introduce Ai companions to keep the game enjoyable, after all, for a long time they planned on adding that to GW2 and they have a long experience of AI henchmen from GW and NPCs are already pretty common in GW2.
Currently playing: GW2 Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders
The main reason that raiding is disliked as much as it is, is because some people have looked behind the curtain and realized raiding 'is what it is'.... a treadmill using pavlovian responses to keep the consumers of content happy until there is more new content to consume. Many either do not realize this, or do realize it, and both camps find it fun to do. Many others do not find this type of content fun. Hence, a splintering of the community.
I do not have anything against raiding in general. I just prefer to run raids at least for the first couple of times for me without guidance and instructions. I want to learn the mechanics and gain the experience through exploration.
With today's raid style maps, videos, and instructions are already created; many of them before open beta just waiting to be unleashed on the rest of the world. I don't mind getting some sort of explanation of each stage and whatnot, but I know people that don't even step one foot into the instance without watching videos of what to do and how to do it.
I just don't feel as if I am playing the game if my rotation must be a certain way, my gear must be at a defined level with specific builds, and I must follow exactly in the foot steps of some video in order to complete content. I understand how and why the games are built this way, I just do not enjoy them any longer. I want to be able to build my characters and play them the way that is the most fun for me.
One of the reasons that I play most of a games content solo is that I enjoy finding my own path to success through content. This will often mean adapting my battle strategy by using movement and line of sight to my advantage. I have completed a great deal of content in many games alone with classes that are not meant to complete that content due to tenacity and creativity. Many of the group quests that should be done with two to three people I get done alone however it is rarely done in the traditional manner.
The DE content of a GW2 seems to offer up the content in such a manner that even if you repeat it, the dynamics will be changed enough that the players will have to adapt on the fly in order to find success. I enjoy the idea that a group can be formed without having to formalize it by accepting invites. I have no issues with sharing content with people if I don't have to suddenly accept an invite and then moments later get kicked from the group while they move on to something else, or find my self group leader because of the same. In some cases I leave the group in order to pick up where my chosen path has left off. The formality of grouping is unnecessary if there is no way to steal ones kills and loot.
I want to be able to explore the world in a game and take part in as much content as possible without being forced to find a formal group or wait on people. There is nothing I hate more than waiting a half hour, or an hour or however long it takes to get a group together for raid content. After finally find such a group and getting underway there is almost always one or two people that have to leave, or get booted, or some other issue leaving the whole project hanging. I hate the drama about too many of the same class, or the drama about which class performs the jobs better. I hate losing out on useful loot to the ninjas and thieves.
For me the concept of open world informal adventuring sounds perfect. I can help out people and be helped without tethering myself to a group or a guild in order to progress. I wish this style had been developed sooner.
Actually that was very lightly put, to be more direct I'd say hell yes, raids really are that bad. What raids became were a contrived joke and I'm glad they'll be nowhere near GW2, as ArenaNet have managed to include group content that's challenging and reliant on teamwork, large scale PvE batles, even larger WvW battles, and all without a hint of the bullshit tedium that goes along with traditional raiding.
this is all well and good. but the bosses need to be super easy as we saw with the shadow behemoth or players will get super fed up with all the noobs that just dont pull their weight or continue failing. There is a reason why raids workand it is because people follow the raid leaders instruuctions. And no way will you get a bunch of people who randomly join the event to do exactly as they should be. Thats why either this will fail or most of these bosses will be super easy face roll. Thats just a fact.
And there you go proving Anets point. Even just talking about raids and the elitism shines through. When you start calling people noobs and stuff.. that is what Anet is trying to cut down on. GW2 doesnt want a guild strutting around like they are king shit because they can get 20-40 people together that can play 5 to 6 hours a night. Wanna prove you are better then everyone else? Do some PvP. You dont have to sacrifice a real life to be "the best" at GW2.
If a raid gives the best loot and that loot is only really needed to raid harder content, then why do non-raiders care what loot drops in raids if it isn't something that they will need for the content they will experience. As long as the developers make content for everyone then why care?
Because we want high end progression too? We want it to be meaningful and we want it to trivialize normal PvE and PvP content just like it does for you.
WoW/EQ style raiding for the best gear against set bosses and no other content gets best gear(or is dependent on raiding) also?
Yes it really is that bad. So bad I won't play games that have it.
I do like some large scale content though. I like the large scale raids in Global Agenda. You get good gear but can get good stuff through other means too. The content itself is basically multiple waves of armies and armies of stuf coming at you and is very chaotic and fairly random as to where they come from.
That is good and fun.
Raiding as the term has come to its meaning in MMORPGs is terrible and awful. Some of that badness is merely because it takes the bad uncooperative and oppressive mechanics of the base game to an extreme and pushes people into being dysfunctional little bitches. So to some extent its not the raiding so much as the underlying design that should be blamed.
But large scale content can be fun when done well or even just in an interesting manner.
If a raid gives the best loot and that loot is only really needed to raid harder content, then why do non-raiders care what loot drops in raids if it isn't something that they will need for the content they will experience. As long as the developers make content for everyone then why care?
Because we want high end progression too? We want it to be meaningful and we want it to trivialize normal PvE and PvP content just like it does for you.
Why do people even try this horrible stupid and tired old canard in the first quote?
Gear affects the entire game!!!!!!!!!!
End of story. Do you see how many exclamation points I put in there? Its because its important. No one need say anything else. Its something every single RPG players has known since RPGs came into existentce
I mean come on there is a reason the sPvP immediately gives you the top end gear. Do raiders just intentially play stupid? Because I know for a fact many of them all know this. Yet still give this argument. Either they have an amazing ability for cognitive dissonance or they are trying to snow job the "dumb casuals" who they think don't actually put in work to analyze the games. Its so sad most raider think they have the market cornered on analyzing these games.
I don't really understand why raiding has to mean a gear grind. Personally, I would love to do hard instanced dungeons with my guild (so 10-25 ppl) just to get an achievement that says we completed it. Most of the people that will play GW2 aren't playing for loot anyway, so why not scale some dungeons up for more players and just drop the same loot, that way the guild can do events together, as just a guild, sometimes.
I don't really understand why raiding has to mean a gear grind. Personally, I would love to do hard instanced dungeons with my guild (so 10-25 ppl) just to get an achievement that says we completed it. Most of the people that will play GW2 aren't playing for loot anyway, so why not scale some dungeons up for more players and just drop the same loot, that way the guild can do events together, as just a guild, sometimes.
There are alot of guilds that have far more people than that.
This whole 10-25 is completely arbitrary. 5, 10,15,20. They would all require splitting guilds up into separate groups.
Raiding has nothing to do with "the whole guild" unless your guild happens to fit some arbitrary number some devs decided on. OR, much more likely, the guild was designed/recruited around the raid content. We all know top end guilds have done that for years and years.
Higher granularity is harder for guilds to deal with, not easier. Hard dungeons for a party size of 5 is much easier for a guild to plan around than 25. That is the nature of the beast. It is in fact a fundamental concept of computer science. Smaller granularity can be harder to implement but has more benefits and is more versatile.
Finally GW2 has large scale events. A large number of them that do not require any specific number of people. Anyone's guild participate in them. They just aren't in a dungeon instance.
This is essentially what you should ask for. Private events.
Comments
The option to join multiple guild is a turn off for me but as with everything else in GW2 I'm willing to be open minded and test it out to see how it works out.
The lack of traditional GvG is more concerning imo. Sure you can run a Tournament team filled with guild members but the focus in on the team and not the guild itself.
And the "no name" policy on the W v W seems kinda annoying to me but since the Guild tag is shown it wont be that bad.
As for capturing Keeps in the name of the guild. Thats a nice feature but only if the keeps wont change hand every few minutes. WAR had a similar system but with keeps changing hands so often it was kinda pointless (at least when I was playing it).
Why include all the polotics, tedium, DKP, second job-esque mentality and linear pre-planned progression that eschews surprise and adventure in favor of standing in a room memorizing dance steps when we now have a system that lets tons of people come together for gigantic, spur of the moment boss fights in which everyone that plays a part is rewarded and we no longer spend half the night standing around waiting inbetween the few bouts of Simon-Says that most raid fights are?
We have the giant world bosses and a system that let's armies of players all fight them without any of the previously required bullshit, why drag the bullshit along?
The ability to grab a large group of players, co-ordinate and go tackle giant world bosses is there, that's always been the aim of raiding, the excess BS that came along with it was just an unattractive byproduct of flawed systems. People that need that part of raiding have tons of games already catering to them.
I've always preferred group content over raids which began to feel contrived once they were stripped down to their basics and repeated over and over in the same form for about a decade.
Raids were a lot of fun for me when they were a special occasion and a rare event (few raid targets that were both contested and on very long respawn timers, raiding every night was not even an option), once they became the mapped out predictable grind that most games inevitably revolved around, the adventure was gone.
GW2 in its current form allows for that large scale battle scenario without any of the predictability, routine and tedious preperation/standing around, and that suits me perfectly. Raids spawned a specific social climate that was very comparable across multiple games, multiple guilds and over many years - sure some atmospheres are better than others, but overall from EQ2, EQ, WoW, Lotro, Swtor, FFXI, Rift, AoC and whatever others I'm forgetting, the experience and atmosphere was very similar.
I never found that large impersonal atmosphere even close to as enjoyable as what you get when you throw 5-6 people at a true challenge and a limited selection of abilities. Contributions are more readily apparent, people aren't just numbers in a raid frame, and it fostered a sense of camaraderie that large raid forces never matched. Despite, at various times, being in the absolute top guilds on my EQ server, WoW server and Rift server, I never once appreciated or enjoyed any raid victories anywhere near as much as I did smaller group accomplishments.
Actually that was very lightly put, to be more direct I'd say hell yes, raids really are that bad. What raids became were a contrived joke and I'm glad they'll be nowhere near GW2, as ArenaNet have managed to include group content that's challenging and reliant on teamwork, large scale PvE batles, even larger WvW battles, and all without a hint of the bullshit tedium that goes along with traditional raiding.
this is all well and good. but the bosses need to be super easy as we saw with the shadow behemoth or players will get super fed up with all the noobs that just dont pull their weight or continue failing. There is a reason why raids workand it is because people follow the raid leaders instruuctions. And no way will you get a bunch of people who randomly join the event to do exactly as they should be. Thats why either this will fail or most of these bosses will be super easy face roll. Thats just a fact.
Shadow Behemoth is a level 15 encounter.
I know Anet said end game starts at level 1, but that doesn't change the fact there is a learning curve.
Still, I keep reading complains that people can't just get out of green goo - shadow behemoth fight requires loads of that (although it is red circles).
There is also a major difference - GW2 allows for scrappy less than perfect wins while in most other games it as to be perfect or is a fail, so not all of the players need to do their job 100% (which is fun because the major responsability in raids fall to the tank and the healer), just a reasonable amount of players.
Another factor is there are NPCs around a good chunk of the time, calling the attention of players to important details.
I'll wait to see it before calling it impossible.
Currently playing: GW2
Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders
The Shadow Behemoth is an easy encounter because scaling doesn't work properly on it. Try the Champion Svanir Marauder at the Norn area. It took 20+ people and lots of coordinated strikes/rezzes to kill him.
Block the trolls, don't answer them, so we can remove the garbage from these forums
not really cause anet never do the clone wow type of game and in gw2 i would say the raid probably give you a unike skin on armor that wont be any advantage from others armor or game system just cosmetic ,but still anet dont want to put raid atleast for now ithink ..but they can give unike skin but not somthing that make you advantage from other type or armor (just an armor whit no stat to combine whit trasmutation stone for skin ) wish it would be great . but if anet dont want is kk i dont mind the raid and waste time forming grp and waste hours.
First off, that's a logical fallacy. They do not need to make events super easy so players dont get fed up with other players not pulling their weight, that's a conclusion you came to and is reflected nowhere in ArenaNets design. Clearly they're interested in maintaining a level of challenge rather than catering to the lowest common denominator - their answer to the cries of 'it's too hard!!' is to do a better job educating new players rather than lowering the difficulty of content.
There's nothing stopping people from tackling these events as a guild, with adedicated raid leader, and no, the world bosses are not all as easy as (the introductory world boss for mid to late teens) Shadow Behemoth, who also wasn't scaling properly.
Raids work, in your opinion. I disagree. I think they're a pathetic miserable failure of what they could have been. GW2 does a much better job of presenting players with giant bosses suited for large forces than anything I've seen post Kunark in EQ. That's a hell of a long time for all of the various games to beat at the exact same tired cliche of a mechanic that's so contrived it doesn't even make sense anymore. Also, as it's being provided just about everywhere else, and ArenaNet is clearly not interested in doing the same old thing, why would they even consider including something like raids that goes directly against so much of their core design philosophies outlined for GW2?
The raid cliche doesn't need to be perpetuated in GW2, they've delivered large scale encounters capable of engaging tons of players at the same time without the tedium associated with the traditional raid cliche. They've also dedicated explorable mode dungeons for those of us that are after a challenge that's greater than open world content.
I'm glad the challenging content will be aimed at small groups of players rather than faceless armies, I find it a much more enjoyable atmosphere and am very glad they've decided to flip the bird to traditional raids. Judging by the amount of interest in a game devoid of traditional e-peen treadmill, it looks like they made a good choice.
Also, taking entire communities out of a world that relies on players to perpetuate its mechanics, and tucking them away into their own private raid instances, would defeat their entire world design. We'd end up with just another hub game where players sit around on their mounts in town waiting to be ported in to their raid instance and the entire world they built might as well not even exist.
Raiding might or might not be bad, depending on who you ask, but it'd clearly be bad for the world ArenaNet built this time around. There's just no place for the raid cliche in this games structure.
Raiding is retarded lol. What's the point of raiding? To get better items. Ok. well what's the point of that? So you can raid better. Lol what?
then F them seriously, go play WOW or rift or EQ2 or the other dozen or so games out there with the standard raiding format.
and to reply to someone earlier who said you aren't forced to raid, on the contrary you are forced to raid if you want to progress your character thats why i quit Rift, i got max level, did the dungeons got the most powerful drops i could from the dungeons (mind you this is within the first couple months of the game) and basically had nothing else to do except run battlegrounds. I refused to join a raid guild because i refused to stoop to that level again (yes i was apart and even part of the leader council for one in EQ2).
so my progression of my character stopped, my choices were Raid or Reroll, since i refused to do either I quit the game. My wife is having this exact problem in EQ2 she can't dedicated the time to a raid guild but is pretty much maxed out.
so yes people are forced to raid whether you want to believe it or not in order to progress their character.
i think its good that many mmos have raiding - some people enjoy raiding
im an ex-raider that is sick of raids, and im happy that GW2 will not have raids
EQ2 fan sites
Raiding has been used as a solution for poor AI.
Controlled, scripted environment, with a solution players need to find.
Obviously any AI will sooner or later be figured and defeated.
The other use of raids has been time sinks - they take to organize, rewards are few, they have raid locks, etc.
All this will keep people paying the sub fee.
GW2 has grind, but it is mostly optional grind for those needing a goal other than liking the game play experience (which probably is more adictive than most other MMORPGs being more situational and active)
If that isn't enough to keep enough players active (alongside WvW and sPvP) I'm sure Anet will introduce Ai companions to keep the game enjoyable, after all, for a long time they planned on adding that to GW2 and they have a long experience of AI henchmen from GW and NPCs are already pretty common in GW2.
Currently playing: GW2
Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders
Well said bro... Why person think raiding is needed in every mmo is beyond..
that's the problem in gaming a general, stray away from the norm and most are like WTH that won't work...
QFT
As I said before, not every game has to be the same, not every game has to have raids.
I swear people are hypocrites. People complain when a game is a "wow clone" and then they also complain when it isn't like wow.
You can't win with a lot of folks.
The main reason that raiding is disliked as much as it is, is because some people have looked behind the curtain and realized raiding 'is what it is'.... a treadmill using pavlovian responses to keep the consumers of content happy until there is more new content to consume. Many either do not realize this, or do realize it, and both camps find it fun to do. Many others do not find this type of content fun. Hence, a splintering of the community.
I do not have anything against raiding in general. I just prefer to run raids at least for the first couple of times for me without guidance and instructions. I want to learn the mechanics and gain the experience through exploration.
With today's raid style maps, videos, and instructions are already created; many of them before open beta just waiting to be unleashed on the rest of the world. I don't mind getting some sort of explanation of each stage and whatnot, but I know people that don't even step one foot into the instance without watching videos of what to do and how to do it.
I just don't feel as if I am playing the game if my rotation must be a certain way, my gear must be at a defined level with specific builds, and I must follow exactly in the foot steps of some video in order to complete content. I understand how and why the games are built this way, I just do not enjoy them any longer. I want to be able to build my characters and play them the way that is the most fun for me.
One of the reasons that I play most of a games content solo is that I enjoy finding my own path to success through content. This will often mean adapting my battle strategy by using movement and line of sight to my advantage. I have completed a great deal of content in many games alone with classes that are not meant to complete that content due to tenacity and creativity. Many of the group quests that should be done with two to three people I get done alone however it is rarely done in the traditional manner.
The DE content of a GW2 seems to offer up the content in such a manner that even if you repeat it, the dynamics will be changed enough that the players will have to adapt on the fly in order to find success. I enjoy the idea that a group can be formed without having to formalize it by accepting invites. I have no issues with sharing content with people if I don't have to suddenly accept an invite and then moments later get kicked from the group while they move on to something else, or find my self group leader because of the same. In some cases I leave the group in order to pick up where my chosen path has left off. The formality of grouping is unnecessary if there is no way to steal ones kills and loot.
I want to be able to explore the world in a game and take part in as much content as possible without being forced to find a formal group or wait on people. There is nothing I hate more than waiting a half hour, or an hour or however long it takes to get a group together for raid content. After finally find such a group and getting underway there is almost always one or two people that have to leave, or get booted, or some other issue leaving the whole project hanging. I hate the drama about too many of the same class, or the drama about which class performs the jobs better. I hate losing out on useful loot to the ninjas and thieves.
For me the concept of open world informal adventuring sounds perfect. I can help out people and be helped without tethering myself to a group or a guild in order to progress. I wish this style had been developed sooner.
Kraken world boss over raids? Hell yes.
And there you go proving Anets point. Even just talking about raids and the elitism shines through. When you start calling people noobs and stuff.. that is what Anet is trying to cut down on. GW2 doesnt want a guild strutting around like they are king shit because they can get 20-40 people together that can play 5 to 6 hours a night. Wanna prove you are better then everyone else? Do some PvP. You dont have to sacrifice a real life to be "the best" at GW2.
The linear presentation. Dark Age of Camelot didn't have it, and had some of the best, most open ended raiding in the genre's history.
WoW, has a very poor raiding game.
Because we want high end progression too? We want it to be meaningful and we want it to trivialize normal PvE and PvP content just like it does for you.
WoW/EQ style raiding for the best gear against set bosses and no other content gets best gear(or is dependent on raiding) also?
Yes it really is that bad. So bad I won't play games that have it.
I do like some large scale content though. I like the large scale raids in Global Agenda. You get good gear but can get good stuff through other means too. The content itself is basically multiple waves of armies and armies of stuf coming at you and is very chaotic and fairly random as to where they come from.
That is good and fun.
Raiding as the term has come to its meaning in MMORPGs is terrible and awful. Some of that badness is merely because it takes the bad uncooperative and oppressive mechanics of the base game to an extreme and pushes people into being dysfunctional little bitches. So to some extent its not the raiding so much as the underlying design that should be blamed.
But large scale content can be fun when done well or even just in an interesting manner.
Why do people even try this horrible stupid and tired old canard in the first quote?
Gear affects the entire game!!!!!!!!!!
End of story. Do you see how many exclamation points I put in there? Its because its important. No one need say anything else. Its something every single RPG players has known since RPGs came into existentce
I mean come on there is a reason the sPvP immediately gives you the top end gear. Do raiders just intentially play stupid? Because I know for a fact many of them all know this. Yet still give this argument. Either they have an amazing ability for cognitive dissonance or they are trying to snow job the "dumb casuals" who they think don't actually put in work to analyze the games. Its so sad most raider think they have the market cornered on analyzing these games.
I don't really understand why raiding has to mean a gear grind. Personally, I would love to do hard instanced dungeons with my guild (so 10-25 ppl) just to get an achievement that says we completed it. Most of the people that will play GW2 aren't playing for loot anyway, so why not scale some dungeons up for more players and just drop the same loot, that way the guild can do events together, as just a guild, sometimes.
There are alot of guilds that have far more people than that.
This whole 10-25 is completely arbitrary. 5, 10,15,20. They would all require splitting guilds up into separate groups.
Raiding has nothing to do with "the whole guild" unless your guild happens to fit some arbitrary number some devs decided on. OR, much more likely, the guild was designed/recruited around the raid content. We all know top end guilds have done that for years and years.
Higher granularity is harder for guilds to deal with, not easier. Hard dungeons for a party size of 5 is much easier for a guild to plan around than 25. That is the nature of the beast. It is in fact a fundamental concept of computer science. Smaller granularity can be harder to implement but has more benefits and is more versatile.
Finally GW2 has large scale events. A large number of them that do not require any specific number of people. Anyone's guild participate in them. They just aren't in a dungeon instance.
This is essentially what you should ask for. Private events.