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Anyone else totally turned off from the lack of revive?

chryseschryses LondonPosts: 1,453Member Uncommon

I am really interested in TSW. 

The only thing holding me back to date is the fact I have bought GW2 on preorder and I didn't want to get hooked into another MMO beforehand.

However, I almost cracked today and grabbed a copy but then I read a review on another gaming site and what shocked me was that Funcom have not allowed reviving in group combat within dungeons. (Can someone confirm this?)

Now I totally get the hard core element and the idea that players need to work together, but all I can see is a new form of griefing and a failed idea.

Even if you participate in the combat and contribute, it states that you will be warped back to a spawn point where you get to watch the rest of the combat and once finished you won't receive any reward.  Due to this, I for one won't buy the game now.

Any current players have issues with this or isn't it too bad? Any people considering purchasing the game turned off?

 

 

 

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Comments

  • JohnnymmoJohnnymmo Salt lake, UTPosts: 99Member
    They say that if they implement this then everyone will need to chose this skill. It would destroy the mechanics. Havent heard that you miss the reward
  • GrakulenGrakulen Staff Writer St. Charles, MOPosts: 460MMORPG.COM Staff Uncommon
    Originally posted by chryses

    I am really interested in TSW. 

    The only thing holding me back to date is the fact I have bought GW2 on preorder and I didn't want to get hooked into another MMO beforehand.

    However, I almost cracked today and grabbed a copy but then I read a review on another gaming site and what shocked me was that Funcom have not allowed reviving in group combat within dungeons. (Can someone confirm this?)

    Now I totally get the hard core element and the idea that players need to work together, but all I can see is a new form of griefing and a failed idea.

    Even if you participate in the combat and contribute, it states that you will be warped back to a spawn point where you get to watch the rest of the combat and once finished you won't receive any reward.  Due to this, I for one won't buy the game now.

    Any current players have issues with this or isn't it too bad? Any people considering purchasing the game turned off?

     

     

     

    You can not rez party members that have fallen in combat.  

     

    If you die you CAN still get loot.  It happend to me while I was in Polaris. (the first instance).

  • lifeordinarylifeordinary AgadirPosts: 646Member
    Originally posted by chryses

    I am really interested in TSW. 

    The only thing holding me back to date is the fact I have bought GW2 on preorder and I didn't want to get hooked into another MMO beforehand.

    However, I almost cracked today and grabbed a copy but then I read a review on another gaming site and what shocked me was that Funcom have not allowed reviving in group combat within dungeons. (Can someone confirm this?)

    Now I totally get the hard core element and the idea that players need to work together, but all I can see is a new form of griefing and a failed idea.

    Even if you participate in the combat and contribute, it states that you will be warped back to a spawn point where you get to watch the rest of the combat and once finished you won't receive any reward.  Due to this, I for one won't buy the game now.

    Any current players have issues with this or isn't it too bad? Any people considering purchasing the game turned off?

     

     

     

    Absolutely false information. I died twice on end boss of polaris and received the shotgun in reward.

  • CaldrinCaldrin CwmbranPosts: 4,533Member Uncommon

    Nope this is a great feature... needs to be harsher punishments for ketting killed as well..

     

  • FredomSekerZFredomSekerZ Long Beach, CAPosts: 1,156Member

    How does having rez stop griefing? And no, i like it being gone. Many will complain and be annoyed (not necessarily you OP) that once dead, they have to stand there and hope the rest of the team, which means they have to ahv *gasp* patience.

  • chryseschryses LondonPosts: 1,453Member Uncommon

    Thanks for the clarification.  This is a little misleading about the loot thing.  Reading this I first interrupted it that you get nothing still.  This isn't so bad I guess but I still think its painful.  They should just give revive as hot key with a cool down. e.g. player goes down, push 'V' and you get them up but the cool down is 5 minutes.  So it will stop constant revive. 

    Insert from the review on Ten Ton Hammer.

    Funcom has argued that a res (in-combat or out-of-combat) makes grouped content far too easy, since the battle becomes more about keeping players "up" long enough to finish the fight, rather than winning the battle through sound tactics. In practice, I honestly find the lack of a resurrection hard to defend. For starters, when you die while grouped, the inability to resurrect means that you're going to have to recall to an anima well (The Secret World's resurrection points) and then run back, which takes you out of the game and away from your companions. Die in a dungeon, and things are even worse--you'll be sent to an anima well where you'll be able to watch your fellow groupmates fight it out until they either defeat the boss encounter or wipe, but you won't be able to rejoin the fight until it's effectively over. If the group wins the encounter, you've had to remain benched while they reaped the glory. If they're defeated, you just might feel somewhat responsible for not having been there to help. It truly is a no-win situation.
     

  • CaldrinCaldrin CwmbranPosts: 4,533Member Uncommon

    Then do your best not to die... hehe

     

    I honestly think its a great addition to the game... but we all like different things.. some people like the amazing self rez droid in SWTOR LOL..

  • SpottyGekkoSpottyGekko RotterdamPosts: 3,845Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by FredomSekerZ

    How does having rez stop griefing? And no, i like it being gone. Many will complain and be annoyed (not necessarily you OP) that once dead, they have to stand there and hope the rest of the team, which means they have to ahv *gasp* patience.

    And you can watch the rest of the fight in realtime via spectator camera image

     

    If the group you're in is just right for the dungeon level, losing 1 member out of five can be the start of the end of that encounter. Specially if that member was the main healer. But the side-effect of wiping is that you get to start that encounter over again, and there's time for tactics discussion. So the next attempt often goes much better.

     

    On a side note, some players in TSW clearly have no idea what they're doing. Joined a random group for a Polaris run yesterday, and was amazed to find that they didn't bother to invite anyone with healing skills. "Nah, we'll just dps it !!"... and we did, all the way to the first boss... and then we had to disband the group.

  • NeferaNefera XPosts: 426Member
    I can see this approach causing a great deal of elitism in the future, making it extremely difficult for newer players to get in groups, especially in more difficult dungeons. No experience in running the dungeon - can't get in groups - can't get experience. If any of you played GW1, you know what happened with UWSC and stones. Or HA teams and rank.
  • paul43paul43 OsloPosts: 120Member Uncommon

    You get loot if you die, but there are bugs, if someone opens lootbox just as you hit resurect, for example if you die the last second of the fight, then you dont get loot as your in loading screen.

    I like the current sysstem though, usually in a dungeon team, when there's a wipe, you wait for the healer to run back and resurect, in TSW after a wipe the team is ready to go again in 1 second...

    Very often the resspad is just next door to the boss area and you can often watch the fight without the camera.

    If you like dungeons then TSW is a great game, Funcom can really make good dungeons.

  • rpgalonrpgalon canilPosts: 430Member
    you should have played the game in the beta weekends, the mechanic is great and you don't need to wait a lot because bosses don't take forever to die. also, viewing the fight from the anima wells cams is a lot of fun, you can easily see the boss mechanics from the outside view and take note.
    I had my doubts about the fun factor being low, but after playing, I'm actually liking a lot the no ress mechanic. 
     and I'm 100% sure you get the rewards even if you died.
    @Nefera - you don't need a solid group to do the normal mode dungeons. BUT, nightmare and hell mode dungeons does indeed require "good" players.
  • BlackbrrdBlackbrrd KongsbergPosts: 811Member
    Originally posted by Nefera
    I can see this approach causing a great deal of elitism in the future, making it extremely difficult for newer players to get in groups, especially in more difficult dungeons. No experience in running the dungeon - can't get in groups - can't get experience. If any of you played GW1, you know what happened with UWSC and stones. Or HA teams and rank.

    Never had a problem with that in any of the groups I have played with. If you don't have much experience, just say: "Hey, I haven't done this fight before, what's the tactics?"

    Personally I started groups for Polaris (and Hell Risen) without having done them before and just asked if anybody had, and sure enough, somebody had and took charge. There is a group chat for a reason. ;)

  • NeferaNefera XPosts: 426Member
    @Blackbrrd - As I said, in the future. :) If you say "I've not done this before" in any of my examples, you'll get booted out faster than you can say "I'll learn". I believe that you can get groups easily this close to launch, but after half a year, remember what I said. ;)
  • atuerstaratuerstar melbournePosts: 234Member

    A - Battle res was always a crutch for bad players

    B - Spectator modes allows you to watch the fight, learn, and do better next time

    C - You DO get your loot if you die, Just solo killed last boss of darkness war and everyone got their loot.

    D - No res encourages you to play better

     

     

  • TerronteTerronte Cedar Rapids, IAPosts: 321Member

    It's pretty common that I die in dungeons and I've always been able to roll on loot. It is actually kind of fun to watch the rest scrap it out while you are in the penalty box.

    You have to remember for there to be a rez someone would have to give up one of 7 slots on their bar. I prefer they bring more to the fight than a ...well maybe someone will die...skill.

  • EvelknievelEvelknievel Ehrenfeld, PAPosts: 2,977Member
    Originally posted by lifeordinary
    Originally posted by chryses

    I am really interested in TSW. 

    The only thing holding me back to date is the fact I have bought GW2 on preorder and I didn't want to get hooked into another MMO beforehand.

    However, I almost cracked today and grabbed a copy but then I read a review on another gaming site and what shocked me was that Funcom have not allowed reviving in group combat within dungeons. (Can someone confirm this?)

    Now I totally get the hard core element and the idea that players need to work together, but all I can see is a new form of griefing and a failed idea.

    Even if you participate in the combat and contribute, it states that you will be warped back to a spawn point where you get to watch the rest of the combat and once finished you won't receive any reward.  Due to this, I for one won't buy the game now.

    Any current players have issues with this or isn't it too bad? Any people considering purchasing the game turned off?

     

     

     

    Absolutely false information. I died twice on end boss of polaris and received the shotgun in reward.

    Ahh Polaris (LOL), remember doing this instance, what a memorable time getting killed to earn my 1st blue pistol image

  • NeferaNefera XPosts: 426Member
    @Terronte - or res could be completely detached from the skill system, making it a function anyone can do GW2 style, or make it into scrolls Lineage 2 style, our make it something completely different that gives some leeway for mistakes/lag while not being a mechanism that a group could constantly rely on.
  • ariestearieste toronto, ONPosts: 3,308Member Common

    I run a raid guild in EQ2 and rezzing in-combat is a huge part of the game.  I honestly didn't know how a game would go without it.

     

    That being said, I rather like what's been done in TSW.   The fights are very engaging and there is a lot of movement and "personal responsibility" in making the fight succeed.

     

    A few things to clarify:

    1.  TSW instances have multiple revive points, so if you do die, running back after the fight is over is non-issue.

    2.  Everyone gets loot, regardless of whether they died.

    3.  Everyone gets quest update.

    4.  Everyone gets to watch the cinematic (if present).

    5.  You get the option to watch the fight in progress from the point of view of any of the still living groupmates.

     

    Overall, I think this type of death penalty allows for more interesting encounter design.  It also makes you really consider whether doing stupid stuff (like pulling too much aggro) is worth it and you end up being a better player for it.

     

    I am somewhat concerned about how this will be implemented when it comes to raiding and longer encounters.  Even the boss in Hell Raised can take 15 minutes to kill, so if you die right at the start, that is 15 minutes of twiddling your thumbs.  With longer raid encounters (Assuming raid enounters ARE longer), it might get to the point where there is too much sitting around.  However, I don't think the "can't rejoin fight" thing is hardcoded into the game.  From what I've seen, Funcom can fairly easily allow people to rejoin the fight after reviving if the design calls for it.  

     

    TL;DR - At the moment it's working quite well and allows for more interesting encounters and more intense combat.  It's not hard to change, so if doesn't work in the future, I'm sure it'll get adjusted.

     

     

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  • WickedjellyWickedjelly Yahoo, COPosts: 4,990Member

    Doesn't phase me at all. Dungeons are mostly boss oriented so really if you wipe you simply start the boss fight over again. There isn't a bunch of tedious mob trash to wade through.

    1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.

    2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.

    3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.

  • chryseschryses LondonPosts: 1,453Member Uncommon
    With all these responses at least anyone with the same concerns can get some clarity from actual player feedback.
    Thanks all
  • david361107david361107 chattanooga, TNPosts: 279Member
    Originally posted by chryses

    I am really interested in TSW. 

    The only thing holding me back to date is the fact I have bought GW2 on preorder and I didn't want to get hooked into another MMO beforehand.

    However, I almost cracked today and grabbed a copy but then I read a review on another gaming site and what shocked me was that Funcom have not allowed reviving in group combat within dungeons. (Can someone confirm this?)

    Now I totally get the hard core element and the idea that players need to work together, but all I can see is a new form of griefing and a failed idea.

    Even if you participate in the combat and contribute, it states that you will be warped back to a spawn point where you get to watch the rest of the combat and once finished you won't receive any reward.  Due to this, I for one won't buy the game now.

    Any current players have issues with this or isn't it too bad? Any people considering purchasing the game turned off?

     

     

     

    This is true there is no rez in TSW, which is great. Think of it this way, DPS has to think along with tank and healers. There is spawn points in the dungeons so you have to run back, there is a repair dude outside the dungeon which is great. The game is just different and it seems based off your post that you still like the "candy land" mmo's, TSW is not that, it's per awesome and new, loving it.

  • LachyFTWLachyFTW Miami, FLPosts: 181Member Uncommon

    I find it amazing that there is no revive, maybe people will finally learn to not stand in the obvious fire.

  • BlindchanceBlindchance WhywouldyouliketoknowPosts: 1,081Member

    They should just add downed state like in GW2 and allow everyone to revive a downed player. Addional team work, emotions and problem solved. It's not really hard, is it ?

  • TalulaRoseTalulaRose Long Island, NYPosts: 480Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by chryses

    I am really interested in TSW. 

    The only thing holding me back to date is the fact I have bought GW2 on preorder and I didn't want to get hooked into another MMO beforehand.

    However, I almost cracked today and grabbed a copy but then I read a review on another gaming site and what shocked me was that Funcom have not allowed reviving in group combat within dungeons. (Can someone confirm this?)

    Now I totally get the hard core element and the idea that players need to work together, but all I can see is a new form of griefing and a failed idea.

    Even if you participate in the combat and contribute, it states that you will be warped back to a spawn point where you get to watch the rest of the combat and once finished you won't receive any reward.  Due to this, I for one won't buy the game now.

    Any current players have issues with this or isn't it too bad? Any people considering purchasing the game turned off?

     

     

     

    You still get to roll for the rewards when the boss dies, I died just a second before and could roll just the same. The rez spot is less than a mnute away from what I have seen. Should note that I didn't get ported back to the rez spot.

    If it is like you say then its to stop overgeared players taking alts in and camping them close by and feeding them gear while the others who are OP for the encounter farm it. My friend and I would do this for alts in WoW, one of us cleared the instance and let the alt take all the boss drops while they sat at the entrance.

  • WickedjellyWickedjelly Yahoo, COPosts: 4,990Member
    Originally posted by LachyFTW

    I find it amazing that there is no revive, maybe people will finally learn to not stand in the obvious fire.

    Unfortunately some still fail to grasp this concept. Heh...

    /sigh

    1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.

    2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.

    3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.

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