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F2P games are EXPENSIVE!

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  • OberholzerOberholzer Member Posts: 498
    To me it usually looks like a lot (not all but a lot) of the f2p backers are folks that keep saying "I like it, it lets me play a lot of games" which to me seems to be when the game gets to the point where it starts to require money they just move on to the next. I don't think the real attraction are any of theses games, the real attraction is they can play free for a bit. Just my opinion of course. I like b2p and I would still pay a sub if it was worth it. Maybe f2p could work if they got it right. Doesn't seem to be much of that.
  • Ethos86Ethos86 Member Posts: 124

    False statements OP, here are 3 arguments that might change your idea on that subject:

     

    - cash shops are as expensive as you personally want, not every game is buy 2 win (example GW2)

    - B2P games can have a very high production quality (example GW2)

    - most subscribtion based games added a cash shop (micro-transactions) to it on top of the sub fee (example WoW)

     

    No more words need to be spend on this pointless discussion, it's rediculous how some people only see doom in F2P or B2P model.

  • JabasJabas Member UncommonPosts: 1,249
    Originally posted by Aeolron
    Originally posted by Jabas
     

     

    The F2P is more costly. Why? Because SOME P2P games have a CS and with that CS and sub fee you get a number of coins if you will per month to spend in the CS, a Prime example of this is AOC, pay a sub fee, Funcom gives you points to spend in their store per month so you get:

     

    P2P = Access to ALL the game content + items+skills+ area's and a Bonus, if a CS is in game, get points per month!

    F2P= Free game, no need to buy it, SOME access to certain parts of the game, Some soso items you can use , basicly P2W model and most F2P games which is more costly then a P2P MMORPG and thus also defeating the purpose of grouping with others to raid high end areas or even do dungeons, Just buy it from the CS.

    I play both type of games and i spend less money in a F2P game.

    If i like a F2P game i suport them, with a limit of 15bucks per month.

    The diference is i pay when i want and spend the way i want. And normally i dont need to put money every month.

    If im playing a F2P game and fell the need of CC and 15 per month is not enouph i simply quit, for me the model is not well implemented and its a money "scam".

     

    Freedom of choise dont work to everyone, if someone spend alot of money in a game and then complain was not the game fault...

  • AeolronAeolron Member Posts: 648
    Originally posted by Ethos86

    False statements OP, here are 3 arguments that might change your idea on that subject:

     

    - cash shops are as expensive as you personally want, not every game is buy 2 win (example GW2)

    - B2P games can have a very high production quality (example GW2)

    - most subscribtion based games added a cash shop (micro-transactions) to it on top of the sub fee (example WoW)

     

    No more words need to be spend on this pointless discussion, it's rediculous how some people only see doom in F2P or B2P model.

    Lol ok you really need to drop GW2 off the radar here bud.

    The OP is meaning games like were once P2P and went over to F2P games, GW2 is built on F2P/B2P but still requires you to buy items in that CS as well, and how do you know whats in the GW2 store? You a dev or something??

  • GTwanderGTwander Member UncommonPosts: 6,035
    Originally posted by Aeolron
    GW2 is built on F2P/B2P but still requires you to buy items in that CS as well, and how do you know whats in the GW2 store? You a dev or something??

    How can you say it requires you to buy items in the CS, then get argumentative over whether anyone knows whats in the store or not?

    Very strange.

    Writer / Musician / Game Designer

    Now Playing: Skyrim, Wurm Online, Tropico 4
    Waiting On: GW2, TSW, Archeage, The Rapture

  • seridanseridan Member UncommonPosts: 1,202
    Originally posted by Aeolron

    Lol ok you really need to drop GW2 off the radar here bud.

    The OP is meaning games like were once P2P and went over to F2P games, GW2 is built on F2P/B2P but still requires you to buy items in that CS as well, and how do you know whats in the GW2 store? You a dev or something??

    Maybe he played during a BWE? There is no "requirement" to buy items in the GW2 CS

    Block the trolls, don't answer them, so we can remove the garbage from these forums

  • Loke666Loke666 Member EpicPosts: 21,441
    Originally posted by Nebless

    Guess what ... It only cost's money if you want it to.

    I play LotRO and use the ingame TP I earn to pay for everything.  I've played DDO for a couple of years now and put a wopping $20.00 into it (just in case you don't want to do the math that comes out to .83cents a month).  Haven't put any money into AoC, PotBS or STO and I've had loads of fun in all those games.

    Would I still play if they were P2p?  Some of them yes, others no.

    Bottom line, if you just have to have that brand new shiney that just came out to make your game play enjoyable .... go for it.  Me?  No thanks.

    It also matters from game to game, some less force you to buy stuff or you can´t even enter the high level zones. Other are more generous and there you can grind whatever you need.

    Personally I prefer B2P since the devs needs to get in their cost and with B2P the devs can make the item shop purely cosmetic.

    Don´t forget that LOTRO and DDO actually got in plenty of money on box sales and monthly fees before they became F2P, something a game releasing as F2P need to earn from the itemshopor possible adds ingame making games releasing as F2P more likely to force you buy stuff then games changing model later.

  • AeolronAeolron Member Posts: 648
    Originally posted by Jabas
    Originally posted by Aeolron
    Originally posted by Jabas
     

     

    The F2P is more costly. Why? Because SOME P2P games have a CS and with that CS and sub fee you get a number of coins if you will per month to spend in the CS, a Prime example of this is AOC, pay a sub fee, Funcom gives you points to spend in their store per month so you get:

     

    P2P = Access to ALL the game content + items+skills+ area's and a Bonus, if a CS is in game, get points per month!

    F2P= Free game, no need to buy it, SOME access to certain parts of the game, Some soso items you can use , basicly P2W model and most F2P games which is more costly then a P2P MMORPG and thus also defeating the purpose of grouping with others to raid high end areas or even do dungeons, Just buy it from the CS.

    I play both type of games and i spend less money in a F2P game.

    If i like a F2P game i suport them, with a limit of 15bucks per month.

    The diference is i pay when i want and spend the way i want. And normally i dont need to put money every month.

    If im playing a F2P game and fell the need of CC and 15 per month is not enouph i simply quit, for me the model is not well implemented and its a money "scam".

     

    Freedom of choise dont work to everyone, if someone spend alot of money in a game and then complain was not the game fault...

    Just keep in mind, F2P games are more costly, why the hell would MMO companies like SOE put their games like EQ 1 and 2 , DCUO then Funcom AOE,anarchy, Ncsoft, COH/COV , Aion , Lineage 2 just to name afew, up on the F2P market? Because they know people are suckers for when they see " FREE" and they actualy believe it is " FREE" which is funny, thats a great marketing tactic and works nearly all the time.

    These companies do this because they know if they get the odd player to stay in their F2P games that they WILL buy something from the CS or in some way force them there.

    The reason why P2P isn't going to hot is because it's this " buy our game for $49.99+$15.00 monthly and you can have complete access to our game" when people see a dollar sign like that it's like " Yeesh what happens if I don't like it" ? Understandable for sure, I bought MMORPGs back in my day and got screwed, but I will always pay to play because in the long run it is cheaper.

    F2P Players might not spend a monthly fee, but they WILL spend money in the CS and instead of seeing 15 a month, they see you know 3-5 bucks here and there , and that adds up alot, part of that instant gratification, another thing WoW brought onto the MMORPG world, because in Madden , UO , EQ, haha you had to WORK for it.

  • AeolronAeolron Member Posts: 648
    Originally posted by GTwander
    Originally posted by Aeolron
    GW2 is built on F2P/B2P but still requires you to buy items in that CS as well, and how do you know whats in the GW2 store? You a dev or something??

    How can you say it requires you to buy items in the CS, then get argumentative over whether anyone knows whats in the store or not?

    Very strange.

    Because , I am in CB and I get alot of chests that " Require" a key to open , and redirects me to CS so nice try.

    Very true

  • seridanseridan Member UncommonPosts: 1,202
    Originally posted by Aeolron
    Originally posted by GTwander
    Originally posted by Aeolron
    GW2 is built on F2P/B2P but still requires you to buy items in that CS as well, and how do you know whats in the GW2 store? You a dev or something??

    How can you say it requires you to buy items in the CS, then get argumentative over whether anyone knows whats in the store or not?

    Very strange.

    Because , I am in CB and I get alot of chests that " Require" a key to open , and redirects me to CS so nice try.

    Very true

    Have you ever opened one of those chests? I wonder how they pick people for CB these days

    Block the trolls, don't answer them, so we can remove the garbage from these forums

  • GTwanderGTwander Member UncommonPosts: 6,035
    Originally posted by Aeolron
    Originally posted by GTwander
    Originally posted by Aeolron
    GW2 is built on F2P/B2P but still requires you to buy items in that CS as well, and how do you know whats in the GW2 store? You a dev or something??

    How can you say it requires you to buy items in the CS, then get argumentative over whether anyone knows whats in the store or not?

    Very strange.

    Because , I am in CB and I get alot of chests that " Require" a key to open , and redirects me to CS so nice try.

    Very true

    So it's untrue that those keys drop from boss mobs, and the chest typically contain uninspired junk?

    Writer / Musician / Game Designer

    Now Playing: Skyrim, Wurm Online, Tropico 4
    Waiting On: GW2, TSW, Archeage, The Rapture

  • ChilliesauceChilliesauce Member Posts: 559
    Originally posted by GTwander
    Originally posted by Aeolron
    Originally posted by GTwander
    Originally posted by Aeolron
    GW2 is built on F2P/B2P but still requires you to buy items in that CS as well, and how do you know whats in the GW2 store? You a dev or something??

    How can you say it requires you to buy items in the CS, then get argumentative over whether anyone knows whats in the store or not?

    Very strange.

    Because , I am in CB and I get alot of chests that " Require" a key to open , and redirects me to CS so nice try.

    Very true

    So it's untrue that those keys drop from boss mobs, and the chest typically contain uninspired junk?

    From my beta experince, the key drop rate was horrible. I would rather just buy it from CS then grind for keys.  If keys drop at good rate why even have those in CS to begin with?

    image

  • seridanseridan Member UncommonPosts: 1,202
    Originally posted by GTwander

    So it's untrue that those keys drop from boss mobs, and the chest typically contain uninspired junk?

    A few keys are available as quest rewards in the Personal Story. The chests contain miniatures, tonics and some boosters nothing essential to play or be competitive in any way imaginable

    Block the trolls, don't answer them, so we can remove the garbage from these forums

  • GTwanderGTwander Member UncommonPosts: 6,035

    Miniatures as in chibi pets that follow you around?

    Game is officially pay to win.

    Writer / Musician / Game Designer

    Now Playing: Skyrim, Wurm Online, Tropico 4
    Waiting On: GW2, TSW, Archeage, The Rapture

  • JabasJabas Member UncommonPosts: 1,249
    Originally posted by Aeolron
    Originally posted by Jabas
    Originally posted by Aeolron
    Originally posted by Jabas
     

     

     

     

    Just keep in mind, F2P games are more costly, why the hell would MMO companies like SOE put their games like EQ 1 and 2 , DCUO then Funcom AOE,anarchy, Ncsoft, COH/COV , Aion , Lineage 2 just to name afew, up on the F2P market? Because they know people are suckers for when they see " FREE" and they actualy believe it is " FREE" which is funny, thats a great marketing tactic and works nearly all the time.

    These companies do this because they know if they get the odd player to stay in their F2P games that they WILL buy something from the CS or in some way force them there.

    The reason why P2P isn't going to hot is because it's this " buy our game for $49.99+$15.00 monthly and you can have complete access to our game" when people see a dollar sign like that it's like " Yeesh what happens if I don't like it" ? Understandable for sure, I bought MMORPGs back in my day and got screwed, but I will always pay to play because in the long run it is cheaper.

    F2P Players might not spend a monthly fee, but they WILL spend money in the CS and instead of seeing 15 a month, they see you know 3-5 bucks here and there , and that adds up alot, part of that instant gratification, another thing WoW brought onto the MMORPG world, because in Madden , UO , EQ, haha you had to WORK for it.

    The way you put things i agree, but this was the old P2P model.

    I dont have problems with EXCLUSIVE P2P model, and on this case i prefer P2P but what we have now in most P2P games around is B2P + P2P + CC, and i think this is to much.

    Considering this i prefer F2P games with CC because the game is only expensive for me if i want.

  • SiveriaSiveria Member UncommonPosts: 1,416

    The f2p games that are the worse are ones that nickle and dime you for game features that are a core part of it, takes Phantasy Star Online 2, its f2p.. but.. if you wanna ever trade with another player, your gonna have to pony up 15/month to get that ability, now you can still buy from a players myshop, but without that "subfee" you cannot have your own myshop, or even do a direct char to char trade. They also made mag leveling extremly slow, and of coruse they also sell mag food items that give the mag like 3+ levels per. While the mag thing ain't a big deal, locking trading away behind a cash shop item kinda irks me. Mind you this will hurt the rmt indistry a tad, but then again they sub to games like wow to sell their ingame funds, so in reality it'll prob do nothing except piss the playerbase off.

    Being a pessimist is a win-win pattern of thinking. If you're a pessimist (I'll admit that I am!) you're either:

    A. Proven right (if something bad happens)

    or

    B. Pleasantly surprised (if something good happens)

    Either way, you can't lose! Try it out sometime!

  • AeolronAeolron Member Posts: 648
    Originally posted by GTwander

    Miniatures as in chibi pets that follow you around?

    Game is officially pay to win.

    Say one wrong thing about GW2 and all the fanbois come out defending it with honor LOL

  • korent1991korent1991 Member UncommonPosts: 1,364
    Originally posted by Sameer1979
    Originally posted by Nebless

    Guess what ... It only cost's money if you want it to.

    I play LotRO and use the ingame TP I earn to pay for everything.  I've played DDO for a couple of years now and put a wopping $20.00 into it (just in case you don't want to do the math that comes out to .83cents a month).  Haven't put any money into AoC, PotBS or STO and I've had loads of fun in all those games.

    Would I still play if they were P2p?  Some of them yes, others no.

    Bottom line, if you just have to have that brand new shiney that just came out to make your game play enjoyable .... go for it.  Me?  No thanks.

    Not all F2P MMOS work on same basis as LOTRO and DDO but even then best deal is to stick to monthly sub for F2P titles. F2P is just a gimmick and ends up hurting your pocket even more.

    Hahaha... Wait, and you think subscription is NOT a legal robbery?! It's overpriced and at todays cost of subs 95% is just pure profit after first month or so... And I agree with what Nebless said, if I think the game's not worth the money they're asking me to spend in the cash shop I'm not going to spend that money... simple as that.

    I think GW2 model will be the best for the future (ofcoures, if cash shop stays vanity and time convinience ONLY without any real game advantage to those buying stuff of it)...

    "Happiness is not a destination. It is a method of life."
    -------------------------------

    image
  • korent1991korent1991 Member UncommonPosts: 1,364
    Originally posted by GTwander
    Originally posted by Aeolron
    GW2 is built on F2P/B2P but still requires you to buy items in that CS as well, and how do you know whats in the GW2 store? You a dev or something??

    How can you say it requires you to buy items in the CS, then get argumentative over whether anyone knows whats in the store or not?

    Very strange.

    http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Gem_Store

    No, I'm not a dev. They tell me what is in the shop.

    "Happiness is not a destination. It is a method of life."
    -------------------------------

    image
  • ChilliesauceChilliesauce Member Posts: 559
    Originally posted by korent1991
    Originally posted by Sameer1979
    Originally posted by Nebless

    Guess what ... It only cost's money if you want it to.

    I play LotRO and use the ingame TP I earn to pay for everything.  I've played DDO for a couple of years now and put a wopping $20.00 into it (just in case you don't want to do the math that comes out to .83cents a month).  Haven't put any money into AoC, PotBS or STO and I've had loads of fun in all those games.

    Would I still play if they were P2p?  Some of them yes, others no.

    Bottom line, if you just have to have that brand new shiney that just came out to make your game play enjoyable .... go for it.  Me?  No thanks.

    Not all F2P MMOS work on same basis as LOTRO and DDO but even then best deal is to stick to monthly sub for F2P titles. F2P is just a gimmick and ends up hurting your pocket even more.

    Hahaha... Wait, and you think subscription is NOT a legal robbery?! It's overpriced and at todays cost of subs 95% is just pure profit after first month or so... And I agree with what Nebless said, if I think the game's not worth the money they're asking me to spend in the cash shop I'm not going to spend that money... simple as that.

    I think GW2 model will be the best for the future (ofcoures, if cash shop stays vanity and time convinience ONLY without any real game advantage to those buying stuff of it)...

    Subscription might be a robbery but how F2P which is nothing more than a glorious free trial is any better? if it is between choosing two evils i will go with the lesser one that is monthly sub.

    The day GW2 B2P model takes over the industry, we will see. But as i see in future more and more games will go F2P and get more expensive. Like others said even in F2P model best thing to do is to pay 12 to 15 bucks a month to access entire game without any restrictions. So how does it matter whther a game is F2P or P2P. For players like me the transition makes no difference.

    image

  • CaldrinCaldrin Member UncommonPosts: 4,505
    Originally posted by seridan
    Originally posted by Caldrin

    You do realise GW2 will make most of its money from micro transactions in its cash shop right?

    At least in Guild Wars 2 the Cash Shop isn't essential in order to play, you can avoid buying anything from there and still be competitive, there is no P2W. In other words for lots of people it is going to cost only the box price and nothing more, others can pay some more as they see fit

    Dont bet on it...

  • aesperusaesperus Member UncommonPosts: 5,135
    Originally posted by Chilliesauce
    Originally posted by korent1991

    Hahaha... Wait, and you think subscription is NOT a legal robbery?! It's overpriced and at todays cost of subs 95% is just pure profit after first month or so... And I agree with what Nebless said, if I think the game's not worth the money they're asking me to spend in the cash shop I'm not going to spend that money... simple as that.

    I think GW2 model will be the best for the future (ofcoures, if cash shop stays vanity and time convinience ONLY without any real game advantage to those buying stuff of it)...

    Subscription might be a robbery but how F2P which is nothing more than a glorious free trial is any better? if it is between choosing two evils i will go with the lesser one that is monthly sub.

    The day GW2 B2P model takes over the industry, we will see. But as i see in future more and more games will go F2P and get more expensive. Like others said even in F2P model best thing to do is to pay 12 to 15 bucks a month to access entire game without any restrictions.

    Because it gives players the choice BEFORE they spend their money. Subscription games ask you to put down a high price before you even play the game. They are more expensive than single player, or standard online multiplayer games right out of the box.

    With a free 2 play game, you get to try it for free (glorified free trial, w/e), and if the game sucks, you don't have to spend a dime on it. That's a pretty big deal. The incentive there is that (at least in the west), studios need to start putting more effort into their games to turn a profit. It completely puts the ball in the consumer's court. On a f2p model, if you make a crap product, people don't give you a damned thing. In a sub model, if you make a crap product, you can still turn a profit if you market it decently. There's pleanty of examples of both of these. When you can get away w/ fire & forget launches in an MMO, it's a very bad thing for us gamers. F2P is one of the few ways of ensuring that studios can't get away with that.

  • ChilliesauceChilliesauce Member Posts: 559
    Originally posted by aesperus
    Originally posted by Chilliesauce
    Originally posted by korent1991

    Hahaha... Wait, and you think subscription is NOT a legal robbery?! It's overpriced and at todays cost of subs 95% is just pure profit after first month or so... And I agree with what Nebless said, if I think the game's not worth the money they're asking me to spend in the cash shop I'm not going to spend that money... simple as that.

    I think GW2 model will be the best for the future (ofcoures, if cash shop stays vanity and time convinience ONLY without any real game advantage to those buying stuff of it)...

    Subscription might be a robbery but how F2P which is nothing more than a glorious free trial is any better? if it is between choosing two evils i will go with the lesser one that is monthly sub.

    The day GW2 B2P model takes over the industry, we will see. But as i see in future more and more games will go F2P and get more expensive. Like others said even in F2P model best thing to do is to pay 12 to 15 bucks a month to access entire game without any restrictions.

    Because it gives players the choice BEFORE they spend their money. Subscription games ask you to put down a high price before you even play the game. They are more expensive than single player, or standard online multiplayer games right out of the box.

    With a free 2 play game, you get to try it for free (glorified free trial, w/e), and if the game sucks, you don't have to spend a dime on it. That's a pretty big deal. The incentive there is that (at least in the west), studios need to start putting more effort into their games to turn a profit. It completely puts the ball in the consumer's court. On a f2p model, if you make a crap product, people don't give you a damned thing. In a sub model, if you make a crap product, you can still turn a profit if you market it decently. There's pleanty of examples of both of these. When you can get away w/ fire & forget launches in an MMO, it's a very bad thing for us gamers. F2P is one of the few ways of ensuring that studios can't get away with that.

    I think when i said F2P is nothing more than a glorious free trial it covered the point of not paying for the client. You just said what i was saying.

    My point of view regarding cost is more on the side of 'what is best and smarter choice for consumer' and in my opinion if you want un restricted access to F2P titles, stick to monthly sub. But if you don't mind restriction then F2P is good deal.

    image

  • XthosXthos Member UncommonPosts: 2,739

    If no one payed, these games would be out of business, someone is spending....

     

    I myself prefer sub games, with no cash shop...I like knowing what I am spending, and I do not like the lure/chances of a f2p cash shop becoming a p2w...

     

     

  • LoktofeitLoktofeit Member RarePosts: 14,247
    Originally posted by Chilliesauce
     Like others said even in F2P model best thing to do is to pay 12 to 15 bucks a month to access entire game without any restrictions. So how does it matter whther a game is F2P or P2P. For players like me the transition makes no difference.

     

    • If you only wanted some extras one month, you paid only for those extras. With sub you still paid full price.
    • If didn't play for one month, you paid paid nothing. With sub you still paid full price.
    • If you consume less content than other players, you paid nothing or less over time depending on the content. With sub you still paid full price.
    The difference is in the flexibility and choice that it affords the players. Add in that F2P only works when the free players are playing, so there is an incentive for the dev to keep creating content and upgrading the game for the entire playerbase. As a result, F2P games often have free expansions, more in-game events and giveaways, and regular content updates whereas with subscription the approach by most companies is to treat it like a product, not a service.

    There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
    "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre

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