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Matt Firor Quote

VhalnVhaln Chicago, ILPosts: 3,159Member

From an interview with PC Gamer..

 

"At this point in the evolution of MMOs, every MMO has tried something at one point or another that you're going to do in your game. There aren't any more truly innovative features." ~Firor

 

Anyone who feels that way should get out of any sort entertainment industry. They should realize they have no place doing anything remotely creative.  From this quote alone, I would say that any MMO he's in charge of will be worthless.  He should just be an accountant or something, not making games.

 

Also, practically answers my question as to how much creative power he had over DAOC, during most of its core development.  I'd guess close to none, but that he probably did have a lot to do with TOA and the less catastrophic but just derivitively lame Catacombs.

When I want a single-player story, I'll play a single-player game. When I play an MMO, I want a massively multiplayer world.

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Comments

  • PatrtykPatrtyk Buena park, CAPosts: 21Member

    I wonder if anyone at bethedsa is sad about the fate of the game.

    I think were not going to see another stand alone Elder Scrolls for some time when this thing goes pear shaped

     

  • GTwanderGTwander San Diego, CAPosts: 6,035Member

    Somewhere, there is a Todd Howard, sitting in his big-boy chair... and pretending hear didn't hear that.

    Writer / Musician / Game Designer

    Now Playing: Skyrim, Wurm Online, Tropico 4
    Waiting On: GW2, TSW, Archeage, The Rapture

  • EntinerintEntinerint brooklyn, NYPosts: 843Member Uncommon

    Just because he can't think of anything new or interesting doesn't mean it isn't out there.

    Perhaps he's trying to say that pretty much all the features that set TES apart in the RPG world have been done in the MMO world.

    They have.  They just haven't been done by a AAA studio with a massive budget, hundreds of devs, and rolled all into one amazing game.

    Darkfall has some features that are reminiscent of TES, Mortal online has others, etc.

    Take those two as a foundation and build on them with TES' rich lore, and polish them with your millions of dollars and hundreds of devs, and you have a winning formula.

    Or don't.  Or just rehash your ten-year-old DAOC design doc and hope the dwindling DAOC kids and MMO nomads keep the game alive.  Good luck with that.

  • SEANMCADSEANMCAD Houston, TXPosts: 5,348Member
    Originally posted by Vhaln

    From an interview with PC Gamer..

     

    "At this point in the evolution of MMOs, every MMO has tried something at one point or another that you're going to do in your game. There aren't any more truly innovative features." ~Firor

     

    Anyone who feels that way should get out of any sort entertainment industry. They should realize they have no place doing anything remotely creative.  From this quote alone, I would say that any MMO he's in charge of will be worthless.  He should just be an accountant or something, not making games.

     

    Also, practically answers my question as to how much creative power he had over DAOC, during most of its core development.  I'd guess close to none, but that he probably did have a lot to do with TOA and the less catastrophic but just derivitively lame Catacombs.

    I would agree. In fact, out of other entertainment methods such as books, TV, movie etc gaming has barely even started to open the creative window given what is possible using the technology.

    Correlation does not imply causation

  • GravargGravarg Harker Heights, TXPosts: 3,332Member Uncommon

    That's why at E3 it was the year of the sequels.  Almost every game at E3 was an already known IP.  It's not just MMOs, it's everything.

  • PyrateLVPyrateLV Las Vegas, NVPosts: 1,096Member Common
    Originally posted by Vhaln

     

    "At this point in the evolution of MMOs, every MMO has tried something at one point or another that you're going to do in your game. There aren't any more truly innovative features." ~Firor

     

    This proves that Matt Firor (of DAOC Fame!) is just an Imitator and not an Innovator.

    Yeah, just what Im looking for in a Lead Developer of an MMO. Lack of innovative vision.

     

    Tried: EQ2 - AC - EU - HZ - TR - MxO - TTO - WURM - SL - VG:SoH - PotBS - PS - AoC - WAR - DDO - SWTOR
    Played: UO - EQ1 - AO - DAoC - NC - CoH/CoV - SWG - WoW - EVE - AA - LotRO - DFO - STO - FE - MO - RIFT
    Playing: Skyrim
    Following: The Repopulation
    I want a Virtual World, not just a Game.
    ITS TOO HARD! - Matt Firor (ZeniMax)

  • IstavaanIstavaan CorkPosts: 1,350Member

    How about coming up with new ideas instead of doing what has already been done before. He pretty much stated that ESO will be unoriginal.

  • EntinerintEntinerint brooklyn, NYPosts: 843Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by PyrateLV
    Originally posted by Vhaln

     

    "At this point in the evolution of MMOs, every MMO has tried something at one point or another that you're going to do in your game. There aren't any more truly innovative features." ~Firor

     

    This proves that Matt Firor (of DAOC Fame!) is just an Imitator and not an Innovator.

    Yeah, just what Im looking for in a Lead Developer of an MMO. Lack of innovative vision.

     

    Well if you look at it, DAOC was not revolutionary, it was evolutionary.  It was Everquest +1.  Same basic design, with one extra feature.  Now that feature was pretty fun for its time, but you can't expect this guy to be a visionary or an innovator.  He blew his load ten years ago and now he's just trying to rehash his old, mediocre success.

    Look at the rest of his resume.  It's a freaking horror story of terrible games and terrible ideas: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matt_Firor

  • NaughtyPNaughtyP Edmonton, ABPosts: 793Member

    It's like they want to attract negative press lol.

    Enter a whole new realm of challenge and adventure.

  • EntinerintEntinerint brooklyn, NYPosts: 843Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by NaughtyP

    It's like they want to attract negative press lol.

    Maybe they're hoping that with all the negative outlook on the game, people will be so pleasently surprised that it even runs properly, that they'll buy it.

    That'll be the day.

  • PyrateLVPyrateLV Las Vegas, NVPosts: 1,096Member Common

    Every time Matt Firor or Paul Sage opens their mouths they end up pissing players off.

    The only players that are happy about TESO are Themeparkers and DAOC fans.

     

    Has anyone noticed that since the initial announcement, and the 2-3 weeks after where they were almost constantly doing interviews, that now we havent heard anything? Not one article or interview in over a week.

     

    They expected a huge positive following and when they didnt get it, and were even raked over the coals about TESO, they have now retreated into hiding. Tails tucked between their legs.

    Whats the matter Mr. Firor? Cant take the heat? Have you come to the realization that your game design is a failed design?

    Tried: EQ2 - AC - EU - HZ - TR - MxO - TTO - WURM - SL - VG:SoH - PotBS - PS - AoC - WAR - DDO - SWTOR
    Played: UO - EQ1 - AO - DAoC - NC - CoH/CoV - SWG - WoW - EVE - AA - LotRO - DFO - STO - FE - MO - RIFT
    Playing: Skyrim
    Following: The Repopulation
    I want a Virtual World, not just a Game.
    ITS TOO HARD! - Matt Firor (ZeniMax)

  • IstavaanIstavaan CorkPosts: 1,350Member

    their showing at E3 was pathetic.

  • PyrateLVPyrateLV Las Vegas, NVPosts: 1,096Member Common

    Even their epic 3 way PvP will be redundant by the time TESO releases.

    By the time TESO is released, there will already be other games out and established with 3way PvP. TSW, RIFT, GW2 and probably a few others.

    TESOs Faction v Faction v Faction will be old news. The game is already behind the times and its still in Alpha.

    TESO will be a non-starter

    Tried: EQ2 - AC - EU - HZ - TR - MxO - TTO - WURM - SL - VG:SoH - PotBS - PS - AoC - WAR - DDO - SWTOR
    Played: UO - EQ1 - AO - DAoC - NC - CoH/CoV - SWG - WoW - EVE - AA - LotRO - DFO - STO - FE - MO - RIFT
    Playing: Skyrim
    Following: The Repopulation
    I want a Virtual World, not just a Game.
    ITS TOO HARD! - Matt Firor (ZeniMax)

  • UhwopUhwop Wilm, DEPosts: 1,663Member Uncommon

    I said it like a month ago, Matt Firor posseses zero crative talent. 

    It amazes me that people will come here and tell everyone that the game isn't a "clone", when the guy in charge of it, at every turn possible, keeps saying that it is!  How many times does he need to tell us that a feature in ESO is going to work like a feature in other MMO's, right down to outright saying that there's nothing new in the game, for people to start accpting that they're just making another typical themepark that will do no better then any other one that's released in the last 5 or so years.

     

    Funny how people have been painting and drawing for thousands of years, yet people still continue to make NEW and ORIGINAL art today.  By his reasoning I should have never started myself, afterall, anything I do has already been done by someone else. 

    That is the most horrible thing for someone in a creative or artistic media to ever say. 

  • EntinerintEntinerint brooklyn, NYPosts: 843Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by PyrateLV

    Every time Matt Firor or Paul Sage opens their mouths they end up pissing players off.

    The only players that are happy about TESO are Themeparkers and DAOC fans.

     

    Has anyone noticed that since the initial announcement, and the 2-3 weeks after where they were almost constantly doing interviews, that now we havent heard anything? Not one article or interview in over a week.

     

    They expected a huge positive following and when they didnt get it, and were even raked over the coals about TESO, they have now retreated into hiding. Tails tucked between their legs.

    Whats the matter Mr. Firor? Cant take the heat? Have you come to the realization that your game design is a failed design?

    Their marketing dept. is likely in a tailspin, even after they tried to post the positive parts of articles on bethblog, it didn't help matters.  All the comments are negative, there are very few defenders and most of them are trolls or are simply in denial in the face of so much crap.

    Either they are sticking their heads in the sand until beta or they are going back and seriously rethinking things, likely at the behest of their publisher, Bethesda Softworks.

  • HarttzHarttz Jacksonville, FLPosts: 91Member

    This attitude isn't limited to gaming, either.  I stumbled upon this graphic a little while back that shows the lack of creativity in movies as well:

     

    While the graphic isn't perfect it does show how sequels or adaptations of previously existing IP is far more likely to be made and more likely to be consumed now than in previous generations.  As games have become more comparable to cinematic productions (with the budgets to match) it isn't surprising that producers are looking to invest in safe bets and not looking for truly innovative material that carries greater risk.  Nobody wants to make the next Waterworld or APB.  This pressure falls equally on game designers as nobody wants a high profile failure on their resume.  It would require a truly remarkable and steadfast designer freed from the pressures of the commercial market to create a truly innovative AAA game.  Matt Firor, working on a game based on another company's IP and for a company (Zenimax) which has Jerry Bruckheimer (big budget Hollywood producer), Leslie Moonves (CEO of CBS), and a Trump on its board of directors, was never going to be that guy. 

  • EntinerintEntinerint brooklyn, NYPosts: 843Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Harttz

    This attitude isn't limited to gaming, either.  I stumbled upon this graphic a little while back that shows the lack of creativity in movies as well:

     

    While the graphic isn't perfect it does show how sequels or adaptations of previously existing IP is far more likely to be made and more likely to be consumed now than in previous generations.  As games have become more comparable to cinematic productions (with the budgets to match) it isn't surprising that producers are looking to invest in safe bets and not looking for truly innovative material that carries greater risk.  Nobody wants to make the next Waterworld or APB.  This pressure falls equally on game designers as nobody wants a high profile failure on their resume.  It would require a truly remarkable and steadfast designer freed from the pressures of the commercial market to create a truly innovative AAA game.  Matt Firor, working on a game based on another company's IP and for a company (Zenimax) which has Jerry Bruckheimer (big budget Hollywood producer), Leslie Moonves (CEO of CBS), and a Trump on its board of directors, was never going to be that guy. 

    I remember this IG, yeah, it is important to remember who pulls the purse-strings at Zenimax.  They played it as safe and close to the chest as possible, and their safe-bet gamble is going to ironically back-fire.

    But it is up to that design director, to convince the others who know nothing about games that a certain direction is the right one.  So we can safely assume Matt Firor fully supported the easy, "safe" route that has now blown up in their face, and even gathered evidence to support it.

    I can also guarantee that now, the shareholders at ZMM are coming down very hard on ZOS about the overwhelmingly negative reception this hundred-million-dollar project has so far received.

    It will be very interesting to see what they do about it, if anything.

  • UhwopUhwop Wilm, DEPosts: 1,663Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Harttz
    (snipped)

    Matt Firor, working on a game based on another company's IP and for a company (Zenimax) which has Jerry Bruckheimer (big budget Hollywood producer), Leslie Moonves (CEO of CBS), and a Trump on its board of directors, was never going to be that guy. 

     Throw in the fact that the CEO is a lawyer who's only connection to video games is being the CEO of a multimedia group that oversees divisions that are responcible for making and publishing video games. 

    People were upset with Fallout 3 because it was nothing like the original games.  It was a hit game for really no other reason then they decided to make it a sci-fi version of elder scrolls.  Sure it was a great game, but you can't really deny that as a company they decided to go with what they know works for them.

    Suprisingly, they're interpretting that success into the MMO genre by going with what they "think" will work, and abandoning what they "know" works, for them.  This may very well be a lesson learned for them, it's just unfortunate that they chose to use the ES IP.

  • coretex666coretex666 PraguePosts: 1,934Member Uncommon

    If the statement was true, I would probably be done with MMOs. Considering the position of the person making the statement, it seems to be even sadder.

    I hope that Titan will prove this wrong or ArcheAge or Repopulation...or simply any MMO to come.

    Waiting for L2 EU Classic

  • EntinerintEntinerint brooklyn, NYPosts: 843Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Uhwop
    Originally posted by Harttz
    (snipped)

    Matt Firor, working on a game based on another company's IP and for a company (Zenimax) which has Jerry Bruckheimer (big budget Hollywood producer), Leslie Moonves (CEO of CBS), and a Trump on its board of directors, was never going to be that guy. 

     Throw in the fact that the CEO is a lawyer who's only connection to video games is being the CEO of a multimedia group that oversees divisions that are responcible for making and publishing video games. 

    People were upset with Fallout 3 because it was nothing like the original games.  It was a hit game for really no other reason then they decided to make it a sci-fi version of elder scrolls.  Sure it was a great game, but you can't really deny that as a company they decided to go with what they know works for them.

    Suprisingly, they're interpretting that success into the MMO genre by going with what they "think" will work, and abandoning what they "know" works, for them.  This may very well be a lesson learned for them, it's just unfortunate that they chose to use the ES IP.

    As a big fan of the original Fallout games, I was initially a little bit peeved that Fallout 3 would be an FPSRPG, then I played it, and realized one fundamental thing.  Bethesda had taken a wonderfully fleshed-out world and pushed the series FORWARD.

    Why were the original Fallout games not FPSs?  Because it wasn't technologically feasible at the time to combine so many RPG elements with the Doom formula.  Instead they went with the Baldur's Gate formula, something that was popular at the time, and much easier to balance and code.

    Fast-forward to 2006, and you see that it is feasible.  Oblivion was a huge success for Bethesda and they had pretty much found their niche (which wasn't a niche at all according to them setting many sales records). 

    So I'm all for change if it is pushing a game forward.  I even was behind the idea that XCOM was becoming an FPS, some with Syndicate (however they both failed in many other ways, and the XCOM fps was scrapped).

    So I would be fine if ESO changed things up on the TES formula as long as it pushed the series forward!

    Right now it is just about in line with modern MMOs, nothing particularly stand-out special, but passable none-the-less.  But in terms of TES games it is a HUGE step BACKWARD.

  • tesozonetesozone Meriden, CTPosts: 2Member

    I disagree with OP and agree with Firor. You have to thinks whats possible and whats not. So don't expect someone to design an MMO that makes everyone be able to wield 10 sword and 50 shields. IT HASNT BEEN DONE YET SO WHY DONT THEY DO IT!?

  • tesozonetesozone Meriden, CTPosts: 2Member
    Originally posted by PyrateLV
    Originally posted by tesozone

    I disagree with OP and agree with Firor. You have to thinks whats possible and whats not. So don't expect someone to design an MMO that makes everyone be able to wield 10 sword and 50 shields. IT HASNT BEEN DONE YET SO WHY DONT THEY DO IT!?

    [mod edit]

    [mod edit] Fans expect too much, take what you get and be happy. So they didn't add player housing, does that mean they never will? My belief to creating a successfull mmorpg is to the good from the genre, combine all of it and polish it off. Like I said, maybe I am wrong for having an opinion.

  • AmbrosiaAmorAmbrosiaAmor Miami, FLPosts: 915Member
    I can't believe this.... yet it has been written... it has been quoted.
     

    image

  • KyleranKyleran Tampa, FLPosts: 20,008Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by tesozone
    Originally posted by PyrateLV
    Originally posted by tesozone

    I disagree with OP and agree with Firor. You have to thinks whats possible and whats not. So don't expect someone to design an MMO that makes everyone be able to wield 10 sword and 50 shields. IT HASNT BEEN DONE YET SO WHY DONT THEY DO IT!?

    [mod edit]

    [mod edit] Fans expect too much, take what you get and be happy. So they didn't add player housing, does that mean they never will? My belief to creating a successfull mmorpg is to the good from the genre, combine all of it and polish it off. Like I said, maybe I am wrong for having an opinion.

    Can't believe you just posted this sentence.

    Creating yet again another rehash of the same forumla is most certainly not what this genre needs, will only degrade it further.

     

    In my day MMORPG's were so hard we fought our way through dungeons in the snow, uphill both ways.
    "I don't have one life, I have many lives" - Grunty
    Still currently "subscribed" to EVE, and only EVE!!!
    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon

  • mklinicmklinic Pottstown, PAPosts: 1,435Member Uncommon

    While it's a different type of game, some of CCP's people were asked about this quote in an interview and I thought their responses were a bit more in line with what I would hope to hear a developer reply: http://www.pcgamer.com/2012/06/25/eve-online-devs-on-dayz-elder-scrolls-online-and-whatd-make-them-quit-the-games-industry/

    *Disclaimers: This isn't intended to compare EvE and ESO so much as display different mindsets about innovation. Also, i'm certainly a fan of EvE and, thus far, unimpressed with ESO (but hopeful...for some reason...).

    -mklinic

    "There's a point I think we're missing.
    It's in the air we raise our fists in."
    -from Behind Closed Doors by Rise Against

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