Here are some actual figures, based on NPD reports.
That's a lot of sales. 14% for PC, down from Oblivion's 18%. However, that does not account for Steam Sales, which were approximately the same amount (based on Steam's stat-tracking system), bringing in PC to roughly 25%-30% of overall sales (I usually say 25% to be safe). Not a majority, but a healthy chunk to be sure.
As for sales after the first two days, I imagine as modding became more prevelant, PC's percentage has continued to rise. The CK was released, many game sites began to actively and regularly profile Skyrim mods creating a LOT of coross-pollination from the console side.
Im going to throw in the majority of those sales were probably from people not even knowing anything about ES, they just bought it because they saw dragons. This game is being marketed to PC MMO gamers, not to everyone like ES games.
With the amount of hype surrounding Skyrim, both from BGS and the fans? I'm willing to bet even most first-timers knew it was a big deal.
I agree on your second point, and will add that this is why this game will likely fail (ie: not be very successful). They are targetting the wrong audience.
Unless you have a crystal ball you can say what ever you like but until it actually hits the market its all speculation.
True, but I don't need a crystal ball for this one. It's a prediction, based on mountains of evidence, not only from TES, but from past MMOs. I could wrong, I could be right. We'll just have to wait and see.
True, but I don't need a crystal ball for this one. It's a prediction, based on mountains of evidence, not only from TES, but from past MMOs. I could wrong, I could be right. We'll just have to wait and see.
But I'm right.
:P
Since 9 out of 10 MMOs either fails or barely survives it is not a hard bet and Firor did say an incredible stupid thing here but we have far too little information to be sure of anything besides that the game wont invent the features itself.
It could still steal little known features that most other games doesnt use or something and mixing features others already have invented can make a fun game that feels like nothing you played before, just look on GW2.
But I will not put any money that ESO will do well... It sounds far too much like a new WAR for that.
You can dance in your chair for all I care. Nobody will probably care because they will look to the next big game announced. The world will not stop for any game.
Theme park gamers could very well be nomadic gamers, but so could any other type of gamer. That is just an assumption based on a personal opinion. It could also be very wrong. Gamers might not be nomadic at all if their beloved titles could provide the entertainment and excitement they require. Some game and developers can bring a title back to life several times over and others just can't get one to show any signs of life at all.
This thread is crammed full of highly disappointed people. That is understandable. I would love to see Skyrim Online. The reality is that it is just not going to happen. I have no idea exactly why, but I suspect that it is about money. A generic MMO with a multitude of familiar MMO components will sell far more boxes and subs than a complete copy of Skyrim with online multi-player features.
The reason for this different concept is because here on an MMO site people assume that their view of gaming is representative of every gamer. The reality is very different. Someone stated before that "most of the people that play Skyrim, or the Elder Scrolls also play MMOs" or something to that effect, I am paraphrasing mind you, but this is another assumption. Just because you are an MMO gamer and play an Elder Scrolls game does not mean that everyone else is. There are large groups of players that only play console games, and there are plenty of people that only play computer games.
This can be broken down into very finite groups such as players that only play Facebook games or FPS games and more or less obvious others. The main point is that too many people take their perspective or view and label everyone else with it as if there are no other options. While I would love to see Skyrim online with many if not all of the same features and design concepts I also look forward to what Zenimax has to offer and will reserve my judgement until I have played the game before choosing a yay or nay view.
I do believe that TESO is designed to attract casual gamers. The reason for this is simple. Casual gamers are easier to please, and willing to spend money without freaking out over every little hiccup they encounter. They are a big part of the MMO population. Their expectations are much lower than the hardcore players. They only play a few hours a week and they keep paying even if they are not playing. They don't read the forums, they don't rate the graphics or combat, they just play and have fun. Something hardcore MMO gamers seem to miss out on these days.
If most of the really negative people around here never play TESO, that would be for the best. I really have no desire to see you all flooding the chat channels with hate and bile due to a preconceived notion of failure. You are entitled to your opinions and you are certainly not forced to play. I just hope you folks can actually stay away though. The game could actually be fun to play, but your negativity is like a virus. Some of you are trying to kill it out of shear spite due to missed expectations. It is as if some people have decided that if you can't have the game you wanted, you are determined to make everyone else agree. I picture children throwing temper tantrums when they don't get what they want. Every post and thread seems to drip with child like frustration instead of legitimate concern.
Theme park gamers could very well be nomadic gamers, but so could any other type of gamer. That is just an assumption based on a personal opinion. It could also be very wrong. Gamers might not be nomadic at all if their beloved titles could provide the entertainment and excitement they require. Some game and developers can bring a title back to life several times over and others just can't get one to show any signs of life at all.
This thread is crammed full of highly disappointed people. That is understandable. I would love to see Skyrim Online. The reality is that it is just not going to happen. I have no idea exactly why, but I suspect that it is about money. A generic MMO with a multitude of familiar MMO components will sell far more boxes and subs than a complete copy of Skyrim with online multi-player features.
The reason for this different concept is because here on an MMO site people assume that their view of gaming is representative of every gamer. The reality is very different. Someone stated before that "most of the people that play Skyrim, or the Elder Scrolls also play MMOs" or something to that effect, I am paraphrasing mind you, but this is another assumption. Just because you are an MMO gamer and play an Elder Scrolls game does not mean that everyone else is. There are large groups of players that only play console games, and there are plenty of people that only play computer games.
This can be broken down into very finite groups such as players that only play Facebook games or FPS games and more or less obvious others. The main point is that too many people take their perspective or view and label everyone else with it as if there are no other options. While I would love to see Skyrim online with many if not all of the same features and design concepts I also look forward to what Zenimax has to offer and will reserve my judgement until I have played the game before choosing a yay or nay view.
I do believe that TESO is designed to attract casual gamers. The reason for this is simple. Casual gamers are easier to please, and willing to spend money without freaking out over every little hiccup they encounter. They are a big part of the MMO population. Their expectations are much lower than the hardcore players. They only play a few hours a week and they keep paying even if they are not playing. They don't read the forums, they don't rate the graphics or combat, they just play and have fun. Something hardcore MMO gamers seem to miss out on these days.
If most of the really negative people around here never play TESO, that would be for the best. I really have no desire to see you all flooding the chat channels with hate and bile due to a preconceived notion of failure. You are entitled to your opinions and you are certainly not forced to play. I just hope you folks can actually stay away though. The game could actually be fun to play, but your negativity is like a virus. Some of you are trying to kill it out of shear spite due to missed expectations. It is as if some people have decided that if you can't have the game you wanted, you are determined to make everyone else agree. I picture children throwing temper tantrums when they don't get what they want. Every post and thread seems to drip with child like frustration instead of legitimate concern.
A thoughtful post, to be sure, but I imagine people's disappointment will only grow as we learn more and more about the game.
Frankly, it serves ZOS right if there are tons of negative people on their forums and in their game (although I don't see why, if you're so disappointed in the game, that you'd pay any money toward it - unless its F2P in which case, divines help them). That is no-one's fault but their own. They can either course-correct and try to fix these things, or they can jam their heads firmly in the sand until launch and pretend everything is fine.
They will ultimately reap what they sow.
It is just a pity that people's hopes and dreams for a proper TES MMORPG are being reaped along with them.
You can dance in your chair for all I care. Nobody will probably care because they will look to the next big game announced.
~and I will be there too... stomping on all the flowers, and killing off the butterflies of their delusions again.
What ever turns you on
sounds like good times!
nothing more satisfying that stoping the butterfiles of delusional people who are able to take actions on their insanity simply because they have several million dollars in their pocket and the authority to tell developers what to do like puppet masters
That is the best kind of fun!
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Originally posted by Entinerint Originally posted by chefdiabloTheme park gamers could very well be nomadic gamers, but so could any other type of gamer. That is just an assumption based on a personal opinion. It could also be very wrong. Gamers might not be nomadic at all if their beloved titles could provide the entertainment and excitement they require. Some game and developers can bring a title back to life several times over and others just can't get one to show any signs of life at all. This thread is crammed full of highly disappointed people. That is understandable. I would love to see Skyrim Online. The reality is that it is just not going to happen. I have no idea exactly why, but I suspect that it is about money. A generic MMO with a multitude of familiar MMO components will sell far more boxes and subs than a complete copy of Skyrim with online multi-player features. The reason for this different concept is because here on an MMO site people assume that their view of gaming is representative of every gamer. The reality is very different. Someone stated before that "most of the people that play Skyrim, or the Elder Scrolls also play MMOs" or something to that effect, I am paraphrasing mind you, but this is another assumption. Just because you are an MMO gamer and play an Elder Scrolls game does not mean that everyone else is. There are large groups of players that only play console games, and there are plenty of people that only play computer games. This can be broken down into very finite groups such as players that only play Facebook games or FPS games and more or less obvious others. The main point is that too many people take their perspective or view and label everyone else with it as if there are no other options. While I would love to see Skyrim online with many if not all of the same features and design concepts I also look forward to what Zenimax has to offer and will reserve my judgement until I have played the game before choosing a yay or nay view. I do believe that TESO is designed to attract casual gamers. The reason for this is simple. Casual gamers are easier to please, and willing to spend money without freaking out over every little hiccup they encounter. They are a big part of the MMO population. Their expectations are much lower than the hardcore players. They only play a few hours a week and they keep paying even if they are not playing. They don't read the forums, they don't rate the graphics or combat, they just play and have fun. Something hardcore MMO gamers seem to miss out on these days.If most of the really negative people around here never play TESO, that would be for the best. I really have no desire to see you all flooding the chat channels with hate and bile due to a preconceived notion of failure. You are entitled to your opinions and you are certainly not forced to play. I just hope you folks can actually stay away though. The game could actually be fun to play, but your negativity is like a virus. Some of you are trying to kill it out of shear spite due to missed expectations. It is as if some people have decided that if you can't have the game you wanted, you are determined to make everyone else agree. I picture children throwing temper tantrums when they don't get what they want. Every post and thread seems to drip with child like frustration instead of legitimate concern.
A thoughtful post, to be sure, but I imagine people's disappointment will only grow as we learn more and more about the game.
Frankly, it serves ZOS right if there are tons of negative people on their forums and in their game (although I don't see why, if you're so disappointed in the game, that you'd pay any money toward it - unless its F2P in which case, divines help them). That is no-one's fault but their own. They can either course-correct and try to fix these things, or they can jam their heads firmly in the sand until launch and pretend everything is fine.
They will ultimately reap what they sow.
It is just a pity that people's hopes and dreams for a proper TES MMORPG are being reaped along with them.
Like many others I am disappointed that what I imagined the MMO would be like is going to have a different art style and a more casual approach. I am not so disappointed that I will hate the game out of spite, but rather give them a chance to put out what could be a quality game that is fun to play even if it is not exactly like Skyrim.
I am not certain I am going to buy it. I would wait to see actual game play, perhaps get in some beta testing if possible and make my choice at that time. Bashing the game at this stage based on some interviews is very premature at this point. People have their panties in a knot over speculation. Every time someone at Zenimax farts this board lights up with doom threads.
TESO might very well fail. I just would prefer to give them a chance to fail or not before dropping the axe. Civilized people call it a trial.
Before TESO was announced, I'm pretty sure the idea of an ES based MMO had been discussed more then a few times over the years. People would list off which ES title would be better suited, which region(s) it should take place in, etc, etc. I can't help but wonder how many of those discussions ever envisioned the set of features we are hearing about today.
I get people that approve of the info that's been released so far and glad they are happy. That said, I would put myself in the shoes of those who never expected an ES MMO to take the direction it appears to be going. Don't mistake this for being a "hater" as I am really trying to take a 'wait and see' mentality, but I can understand those who might feel a bit 'blindsided' and detached from a game that, had it continued to evolve the 'ES formula', they would have embraced with open arms....Well, this is mmorpg.com, so 'open arms' might be expecting too much, but it would have at least gotten a chest bump.
More on topic: As for the quote, I can see it is part of a larger statement, but I'm not sure that vindicates the speaker much. Honestly, this could turn out to be a great game, but maybe they should just let a community manager speak in interviews and let the production/dev people do what they do. I mean, the fact we are talking more about some guys pedigree and things he's said, rather then the game itself is a bit of a warning sign....It reminds me a bit of WarHammer in that respect.
-mklinic
"Do something right, no one remembers. Do something wrong, no one forgets" -from No One Remembers by In Strict Confidence
More on topic: As for the quote, I can see it is part of a larger statement,
I'm not really responding to you, I've just seen variations of this comment a lot in multiple locations.
"context" is usually what it comes down to.
The quote is ENTIRELY within it's context. There was no larger thought, or point that was being made to apply it to. He was speaking on the concept of innovation in MMO's and nothing more when he said what he said. The rest of what he said didn't even really have anything to do with innovation, and only contradicted what he said anyways.
He was making the point that there ISN'T MUCH ROOM TO INNOVATE, because everything you can do in an MMO has already been done. There is no outside conetext when you say that, and that is exactly what he was saying.
The point he was attempting to make was WHY YOU SEE THE SAME THINGS USED IN A LOT OF MMO'S. THAT was the context. Why are is there so much, what seems like, cut and paste development in MMO's? Because pretty much everything that can be done, has been done, and that doesn't leave much room to innovate.
He then proceeded to ramble on about people playing korean MMO's. The worste thing he actually said was that "you don't look at what other people are doing to get ideas, and use them", or something to that effect. Yet that is EXACTLY what they're doing.
Firor is back pedalling on most of the stuff he originally said.
First he said combat would be you're typical hotbar style combat, with a control scheme and feel simillar to WoW, and not "real time". When people got mad over that, he then switched to calling it "action" combat.
He said that the game needed to be familliar to the general MMOer because if the game played like skryim then people wouldn't really understand how to play it. A little paraphrasing, but that is exactly what he said. Then, in the exact same interview that the quote we're discussing came from, he said that the game would have the same races, lore, and minimul UI to be accessable to console gamers who played ES. He's trying to move away from the image that the game is developed to appeal to the "typical" mmo gamer, and make it look like they're making it with the intent to appeal to ES players.
Mcklinic is very right. Firor needs to stop talking. He's doing nothing to help the negative image the game has recieved, and only digging a deeper and deeper hole.
There's nothing that they can say about this game that is going to make people who've been playing MMO's for the last 10 years think that they have to play this. Outside of using the ES setting, there's nothing they're doing that sets it appart, and most of it's only going to appeal to people who liked the wowified version of DAoC.
You can't sell ham sandwiches to people that have been eating ham sandwiches every day for the last decade. Spicy mustard or miracle whip doesn't make your ham sandwich any more special then the other guys, and people are getting tired of eating your ham sandwiches. A little olive loaf every now and then isn't a bad thing.
Everything they're doing has already been talked up by countless other companies. There's nothing you can say at this point that people won't see through. Just shut up, develop it - you obviously don't care what any of the ES fans think - release it, and let it fall into the pit of mediocrity with every other themepark MMO that isn't WoW.
More on topic: As for the quote, I can see it is part of a larger statement,
You can't sell ham sandwiches to people that have been eating ham sandwiches every day for the last decade. Spicy mustard or miracle whip doesn't make your ham sandwich any more special then the other guys, and people are getting tired of eating your ham sandwiches. A little olive loaf every now and then isn't a bad thing.
Everything they're doing has already been talked up by countless other companies. There's nothing you can say at this point that people won't see through. Just shut up, develop it - you obviously don't care what any of the ES fans think - release it, and let it fall into the pit of mediocrity with every other themepark MMO that isn't WoW.
lol.
and at the deli next door you had a sandwich with a different tasty kind of bread on it and you walk into his store and he tells you that you dont want that kind of bread and besides its not really possible on a sandwich anyway
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
More on topic: As for the quote, I can see it is part of a larger statement,
You can't sell ham sandwiches to people that have been eating ham sandwiches every day for the last decade. Spicy mustard or miracle whip doesn't make your ham sandwich any more special then the other guys, and people are getting tired of eating your ham sandwiches. A little olive loaf every now and then isn't a bad thing.
Everything they're doing has already been talked up by countless other companies. There's nothing you can say at this point that people won't see through. Just shut up, develop it - you obviously don't care what any of the ES fans think - release it, and let it fall into the pit of mediocrity with every other themepark MMO that isn't WoW.
lol.
and at the deli next door you had a sandwich with a different tasty kind of bread on it and you walk into his store and he tells you that you dont want that kind of bread and besides its not really possible on a sandwich anyway
So Im guessing that putting a slice of cheese on that sandwich is Too Hard?
Tried: EQ2 - AC - EU - HZ - TR - MxO - TTO - WURM - SL - VG:SoH - PotBS - PS - AoC - WAR - DDO - SWTOR Played: UO - EQ1 - AO - DAoC - NC - CoH/CoV - SWG - WoW - EVE - AA - LotRO - DFO - STO - FE - MO - RIFT Playing: Skyrim Following: The Repopulation I want a Virtual World, not just a Game. ITS TOO HARD! - Matt Firor (ZeniMax)
More on topic: As for the quote, I can see it is part of a larger statement,
You can't sell ham sandwiches to people that have been eating ham sandwiches every day for the last decade. Spicy mustard or miracle whip doesn't make your ham sandwich any more special then the other guys, and people are getting tired of eating your ham sandwiches. A little olive loaf every now and then isn't a bad thing.
Everything they're doing has already been talked up by countless other companies. There's nothing you can say at this point that people won't see through. Just shut up, develop it - you obviously don't care what any of the ES fans think - release it, and let it fall into the pit of mediocrity with every other themepark MMO that isn't WoW.
lol.
and at the deli next door you had a sandwich with a different tasty kind of bread on it and you walk into his store and he tells you that you dont want that kind of bread and besides its not really possible on a sandwich anyway
So Im guessing that putting a slice of cheese on that sandwich is Too Hard?
only if the sandwhich was built with cheese in mind from the start. Otherwise, it would just feel like a tacked on feature meant to appeal to a niche crowd...A delicious tacked on feature...
-mklinic
"Do something right, no one remembers. Do something wrong, no one forgets" -from No One Remembers by In Strict Confidence
More on topic: As for the quote, I can see it is part of a larger statement,
You can't sell ham sandwiches to people that have been eating ham sandwiches every day for the last decade. Spicy mustard or miracle whip doesn't make your ham sandwich any more special then the other guys, and people are getting tired of eating your ham sandwiches. A little olive loaf every now and then isn't a bad thing.
Everything they're doing has already been talked up by countless other companies. There's nothing you can say at this point that people won't see through. Just shut up, develop it - you obviously don't care what any of the ES fans think - release it, and let it fall into the pit of mediocrity with every other themepark MMO that isn't WoW.
lol.
and at the deli next door you had a sandwich with a different tasty kind of bread on it and you walk into his store and he tells you that you dont want that kind of bread and besides its not really possible on a sandwich anyway
So Im guessing that putting a slice of cheese on that sandwich is Too Hard?
only if the sandwhich was built with cheese in mind from the start. Otherwise, it would just feel like a tacked on feature meant to appeal to a niche crowd...A delicious tacked on feature...
Here are some actual figures, based on NPD reports.
That's a lot of sales. 14% for PC, down from Oblivion's 18%. However, that does not account for Steam Sales, which were approximately the same amount (based on Steam's stat-tracking system), bringing in PC to roughly 25%-30% of overall sales (I usually say 25% to be safe). Not a majority, but a healthy chunk to be sure.
As for sales after the first two days, I imagine as modding became more prevelant, PC's percentage has continued to rise. The CK was released, many game sites began to actively and regularly profile Skyrim mods creating a LOT of coross-pollination from the console side.
Im going to throw in the majority of those sales were probably from people not even knowing anything about ES, they just bought it because they saw dragons.(No polls here or numbers just common sense seeing as the previous games didnt sell that many as skyrim) This game is being marketed to PC MMO gamers, not to everyone from little 5 year old Jimmy to grandmom trying to stay hip on her Xbox like ES games.
Let me throw you a curve ball. I play mmo's on my PC. But I got skyrim and oblivion for the PS3. Although there are probably people who trend one direction or the other, remember, there are some of us who actually utilize both pc and console for things.
Everything above has this huge assumption that you must be either pc or console, but never the twain shall meet. What a bunch of hooey. Sure there are those who only console. Sure, there are those that only pc. But I bet the bulk of the bell curve is gamers who use both.
Here are some actual figures, based on NPD reports.
That's a lot of sales. 14% for PC, down from Oblivion's 18%. However, that does not account for Steam Sales, which were approximately the same amount (based on Steam's stat-tracking system), bringing in PC to roughly 25%-30% of overall sales (I usually say 25% to be safe). Not a majority, but a healthy chunk to be sure.
As for sales after the first two days, I imagine as modding became more prevelant, PC's percentage has continued to rise. The CK was released, many game sites began to actively and regularly profile Skyrim mods creating a LOT of coross-pollination from the console side.
Im going to throw in the majority of those sales were probably from people not even knowing anything about ES, they just bought it because they saw dragons.(No polls here or numbers just common sense seeing as the previous games didnt sell that many as skyrim) This game is being marketed to PC MMO gamers, not to everyone from little 5 year old Jimmy to grandmom trying to stay hip on her Xbox like ES games.
Let me throw you a curve ball. I play mmo's on my PC. But I got skyrim and oblivion for the PS3. Although there are probably people who trend one direction or the other, remember, there are some of us who actually utilize both pc and console for things.
Everything above has this huge assumption that you must be either pc or console, but never the twain shall meet. What a bunch of hooey. Sure there are those who only console. Sure, there are those that only pc. But I bet the bulk of the bell curve is gamers who use both.
Agreed. I know a lot of people who have it for a console AND PC. They like toi play on their giant tvs and at the same time take advantage of mods.
On another note, you are definitely missing out on the Skyrim mod scene,
While I agree this is possible, I am not sure that this is what is happening here with certain people. I admit people can informed their opinion based on evidence and to allow it to evolve. However......
It is also common in the human experience to 'hear what they want to hear', and thus spin 'facts' into proof of their own particular viewpoint.
While they aren't giving away all the information and their tastes may differ from mine, that is where the least biased information is going to come from until the beta. We all know we can't trust words directly from the dev's mouths at this stage of hype-release.
So for every statement people are witch hunting for an ulterior motive or hidden agenda. There isn't enough info for people to be so emotionally invested in this imo - you admit in your own statement they aren't giving away all the info - so why predict total failure so early?
For example, the OP most certainly took a snippit from the interview and cut it off at the point where we couldn't see that it was actually a preface to him saying, 'so we aren't going to look to them for insperation' . So this discussion didn't start off as a 'let's discuss what he said' it started off by cutting a segment to prove a pre-set agenda - not to create an informed opinion based on the evidence - but rather form your opinion on just this segment of the evidence I have presented to you.
That's why I linked the whole interview. So we could actually have an honest discussion about what was actually said. Why didn't the OP link it? Well, obviously there is some attractive stuff in TESO he didn't want to muddy up his point of doom and gloom.
I have yet to read about the truly attractive stuff you speak of, despite combing the article fairly thoroughly. Can you give some examples? It may be a matter of perspective.
It must be a matter of perspective, because the next paragraph highlighted what interested me about it.
And to Entinerent - watch the interview. His openner stresses that it is the IP as their most important source of inspiration. And that the playstyle will have to reflect the TES line. And that while not a skill based model, they are using a character build model directly from the older TES games.
So there's 3 things I liked - but I'm also intrigued by the action based combat, and interested in how one will be able to customize their toon within a class. I like the idea that even if you are the same class, you can differentiate yourself from others of that class.
So see, there was plenty of interesting stuff there that not isn't being discussed.
Granted that is what he says, - and it's good stuff right?
It is more than clear to anyone who has been watching this unfold since the first announcement, that their PR department has been in a defensive tail-spin, trying to back-track from what was said in the initial GI article that compared the game to WoW more than several times (and that was a freaking FLUFF piece).
Well, I thought he was talking about antethetical research........didn't someone recently talk about the importance of that? Didn't you lambast them for NOT looking at other games. When first you tell me that they should've looked to other games and then tell me they shouldn't have looked to WoW, I see someone who does not portray consistancy of thought, but it must be nice being able to spin whatever is said about the game into a huge negative. They aren't looking to other games - fail. They are looking to other games - fail. The only part of your mind that is made up is that TESO is going to be crap - no matter what is presented to you. You've formulated that opinion based on virtually next to nothing.
I don't know if it will turn out to be a good game, a bad game or what. But I like TES, and so I'm going to keep an open mind, they haven't let me down in the past. And although it isn't Bethesda, I know this is the project Bethesda gave the green light to - for whatever reason they thought this presentation would create the best next step for the TES line, and so far, I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt.
They know they're in trouble, and they are contradicting each other in interview to interview. It's actually quite hilarious. If there was a Daily Show-esque news program regarding the games industry, they would have a field day with this.
I think you see what you want to see and hear what you want to hear. I hear a little information come out. People have questions and so they come out with further clarification. I really don't think they are reacting to nerd rage on the forums.
Also, TES games have ALWAYS been skill-based and ALWAYS allowed custom classes, so I fail to see what early TES game they're talking about, Redguard perhaps? Classes themselves were only introduced in the second game (Daggerfall) to give people some predetermined skill-sets to choose from. In Arena, you just choose your Major, Minor and Lesser skills, attributes, and leave it at that.
So don't aren't you interested? Don't you want to know more now? Or you could scream on the forums the sky is falling. He said that they were going to maintain the ability to be who and what you want, just as the series has always done, now just within the context of a class. I'm intrigued to see how/if they can pull it off. You are certain they have made baby Jesus cry.
But, as you can see, people aren't 'hearing' the things being said, but rather are already nit-picking each statement for the piece that confirms their pre-conceived notion.
Some are likely falling prey to that, yes, but others simply see it as them blowing smoke, trying to backtrack from their initial statements which were: We are making an MMORPG with TES lore for the TES fans, and "typical MMO gameplay" for the MMO fans. Now they want to try and convince the disgruntled TES fanbase that in fact their game-play was inspired by TES all along. Some of it, I'm sure was, but not enough of it. That "TES feeling" is about the whole, as Todd Howard attests to. Little tidbits here and there do not a TES game make, regardless of whether its single-player, co-op or massively multiplayer.
I just can't come to such stark conclusions because the devs 'might' be backpeddling. I heard them clarify, you heard them blowing smoke.
It already seems to be impossible to actually 'discuss' our opinions about the game - its already turned into an angry mob - and they are governed by an ever evolving rational opinion based on evidence.
And whose fault is that? It certainly isn't the mob's. They are just reacting. If things had come out positively it would be a mob of praise and clamoring for more information. It is ZOS and their PR department's job to convey the game in the clearest sense possible. They did, it was very clear from that initial 12-page GI article what their intentions were. There were some nice things, but they were heavily outweighed by disappointing and mind-boggling decisions, which crushed the hopes of a great many of the fanbase.
Ok, then, carry that pitchfork high. I'm glad you are find it morally acceptable to be part of an irrational mob. You know - if you want to crucify someone, in court you probably shouldn't say, 'well he made me mad, so can you blame me?'
Personally, I believe it is right to calmly and rationally look at the entire spectrum of this game, of which we only have a glimpse. So, isn't patience still considered a virtue? Or is it really time to nail these folks to the cross?
If I weren't such a huge TES fan I'd likely be laughing from the sidelines til I was blue in the face, but as I am, I am just so saddened and disappointed. TES is the largest selling WRPG series in history, and is widely regarded as also one of the highest quality (each one wins GOTY). ESO should have been the absolute pinnacle of what an MMORPG could have been. The fact that they have squandered that potential in order to seemingly rehash Matt Firor's ten-year-old design doc for DAOC is pretty depressing.
You absolutely need to take a chill pill. Stop watching this development so closely. Are you truly emotionally distraught because you have skepticism about a video game? Why don't you trust your instincts? If this is widely regarded as one of the highest quality rpg lines - why formulate a doom and gloom opinion about the first stages of public information which have all been edited without the interviewees input? Or at most, what I see is that seemingly conflicting information needs further explanation. Which is all I see that is happening here.
Does that mean I will stay that way? Well, it depends? Are they going to change their game to meet the needs of the millions of TES fans who want a TES MMO to play like a TES game?
Well they said it would.....but since they are obviously lying:
Would you please list for me what MY needs as a TES fan are? Since you seem to be the spokesman for what the millions want?
Listen, I would bet money I've been playing TES games longer than you - and this may come as a shock to you, but I could give a rats ass about whether this game is skill based or class based. You know why? Because I've played fun class based games. In fact, class based games made me love mmo's. So don't speak for what the millions of TES fans want, at best you are speaking for what the nerd-raging forum lurker TES fans want.
Limit your opinion to what you want out of the game and please stop extrapolating that you have every single fan of TES right behind you.
I see childish ranting - not necessarily you personally, but in general. Instead of being excited about a new way of playing the TES, you've chosen to be pissed that they didn't take the same game they've had for 10 years plus and just dropped the graphix and added a multiplayer component. Whether that would work or not is entirely immaterial, because what you truly want is the same thing you have already played (Obl/Sky) while being completely pissed because you are 'guessing' they are making the same thing you have already played (mmo's).
and at your other reply: But I like my big TV more than the mods /wink.
While I agree this is possible, I am not sure that this is what is happening here with certain people. I admit people can informed their opinion based on evidence and to allow it to evolve. However......
It is also common in the human experience to 'hear what they want to hear', and thus spin 'facts' into proof of their own particular viewpoint.
While they aren't giving away all the information and their tastes may differ from mine, that is where the least biased information is going to come from until the beta. We all know we can't trust words directly from the dev's mouths at this stage of hype-release.
So for every statement people are witch hunting for an ulterior motive or hidden agenda. There isn't enough info for people to be so emotionally invested in this imo - you admit in your own statement they aren't giving away all the info - so why predict total failure so early?
I think you might be blowing this hidden agenda thing out of proportion. My agenda is not hidden, for example, I make it plain as day. I am unhappy with the direction of this game and, unlike other games that I don't really care about, I have been anticipating a TES MMORPG, more than any other game, since I first played Arena.
If you are talking about ZOS' hidden agenda, their agenda is pretty clear too: use the TES IP to make a sequel to DAOC, cash-in. Not rocket science to figure that one out. It's just backfiring on them pretty damn hard.
You only need one piece of information to become emotionally invested as a TES fan: It is an MMORPG in the world of TES. I am emotionally invested because I am a fan of the series and have always wanted a TES MMO that plays like a TES game. The fact this game exists means the only game I have ever truly anticipated will NEVER exist.
Now I grant you, its "just a game" but for me, TES is my Star Trek, or Star Wars, or LOTR...
It may not be for you, so you don't see how one could be emotionally invested, and that's fine, but you can't discount the possibility.
For example, the OP most certainly took a snippit from the interview and cut it off at the point where we couldn't see that it was actually a preface to him saying, 'so we aren't going to look to them for insperation' . So this discussion didn't start off as a 'let's discuss what he said' it started off by cutting a segment to prove a pre-set agenda - not to create an informed opinion based on the evidence - but rather form your opinion on just this segment of the evidence I have presented to you.
That's why I linked the whole interview. So we could actually have an honest discussion about what was actually said. Why didn't the OP link it? Well, obviously there is some attractive stuff in TESO he didn't want to muddy up his point of doom and gloom.
I have yet to read about the truly attractive stuff you speak of, despite combing the article fairly thoroughly. Can you give some examples? It may be a matter of perspective.
It must be a matter of perspective, because the next paragraph highlighted what interested me about it.
And to Entinerent - watch the interview. His openner stresses that it is the IP as their most important source of inspiration. As they've said many times before: for the Lore. And that the playstyle will have to reflect the TES line. Agreed, it will have to if it wants to succeed, which means they need to make major changes. He could also be side-stepping and talking about the open-world exploration and no quest-hub thing, that they are touting as their TES featues. And that while not a skill based model, they are using a character build model directly from the older TES games. All the older TES games are skill-based!Maybe he means you will answer ten morality questions to determine your class? LOL
So there's 3 things I liked - but I'm also intrigued by the action based combat, and interested in how one will be able to customize their toon within a class. I like the idea that even if you are the same class, you can differentiate yourself from others of that class.
So see, there was plenty of interesting stuff there that not isn't being discussed.
It is indeed a matter of perspective. While some features might seem "intriguing" they are a far cry from "exciting" to me. No matter how many little nods they make toward TES, they are making much larger nods toward the AAA MMORPG rut.
It's nothing new. It had been compared to a less-polished version of the combat in Neverwinter and GW2, except with tab-targetting instead of auto-targetting.
And I have watched the interview. He is backtracking, a lot. When they say play-style they then talk about timed blocked and dodging, but do you have to aim those blocks and dogdes? No. Do you have to aim your sword swings, arrows and spells? No. It doesn't play like TES and anyone who knows anything about MMORPGs knows that the TES play-style is perfectly possible and viable.
Before E3 all they talked about is how comfortable MMO players will be with the combat. During E3 all they talked about was how much it was like TES.
Which one is the lie, because they can't both be true.
Granted that is what he says, - and it's good stuff right?
It is more than clear to anyone who has been watching this unfold since the first announcement, that their PR department has been in a defensive tail-spin, trying to back-track from what was said in the initial GI article that compared the game to WoW more than several times (and that was a freaking FLUFF piece).
Well, I thought he was talking about antethetical research........didn't someone recently talk about the importance of that? Didn't you lambast them for NOT looking at other games. When first you tell me that they should've looked to other games and then tell me they shouldn't have looked to WoW, I see someone who does not portray consistancy of thought, but it must be nice being able to spin whatever is said about the game into a huge negative. They aren't looking to other games - fail. They are looking to other games - fail. The only part of your mind that is made up is that TESO is going to be crap - no matter what is presented to you. You've formulated that opinion based on virtually next to nothing.
Antethetical research...in the GI article? No, they were saying the game is more like WoW than TES. And they were trying to make it sound good. They thought that would engender it to the WoW crowd. It didn't. it is that initial article that started the (mostly inaccurate) WoW-clone-calling. If anything it's a DAOC-clone with the TES logo slapped on the box.
They should absolutely look at other MMORPGs, where did I say they shouldn't? They should do their research and know their competition, as well as what the more cutting-edge, niche markets are into. It's due dilligence.
If you are wilfully ignorant to what others in your industry are up to then you deserve to fail.
That does not mean, however, you have to out-right copy the biggest selling of the dogs. There is a big difference between research and plagiarism.
Research would have shown them that their claims of TES-style combat being "impossible" in an MMO, as they said in the original GI article, were false, and that they couldn't use that excuse.
I don't know if it will turn out to be a good game, a bad game or what. But I like TES, and so I'm going to keep an open mind, they haven't let me down in the past. And although it isn't Bethesda, I know this is the project Bethesda gave the green light to - for whatever reason they thought this presentation would create the best next step for the TES line, and so far, I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt.
There's nothing wrong with that, but that discounts what we know about Zenimax as a corporation, and the fact that Bethesda Game Studios did not have to give a green-light to anything. Todd Howard said last year that he was "not interested in a TES MMO," well after he would have known about the project. The fact that he has yet to come out and help defend the game on the front-line of a franchise he helped bring to such success, says volumes.
They probably want him to, and he's likely refused. It could, after all, soil his good name by supporting such a blatant cash-in. That or they have made him sign an NDA that says he will not publicly share his opinion on the game.
Also, I don't think anyone is disputing whether it will be a good game, bad game, great game, or terrible game. I'm certainly not. I'm pretty sure it will at the very least be a serviceable MMORPG at least with the quality-level of Guild Wars 2, for example.
The point is, whether or not it will feel like a TES game. On their current course, it most certainly will not. That is what I wanted. That is what many wanted.
When people were speculating about the possibility of a TES MMO on the bethsoft forums, they never once hoped for anything remotely like this. They spoke of the possibilities, and the amazing revolution it could be to the AAA MMORPG market, simply by bring the features of TES into an MMO format.
They know they're in trouble, and they are contradicting each other in interview to interview. It's actually quite hilarious. If there was a Daily Show-esque news program regarding the games industry, they would have a field day with this.
I think you see what you want to see and hear what you want to hear. I hear a little information come out. People have questions and so they come out with further clarification. I really don't think they are reacting to nerd rage on the forums.
It would be easy to turn that sentiment around on you, but I won't. It isn't just the forums. It is every article, every video, every interview. The rage is prevelant everywhere. It is even, in some cases, coming from the gaming news media, in subtle ways here and there. PC Gamer asking the CCP guys about Matt Firor's staments? Gamespot's incredibly disheartening impressions video? Destuctoid's lambasting of what they saw at E3? Kotaku's half-hearted defense that quickly turned out to be a jab entitled "WOW what a difference"?
I'm not imagining this stuff, and if you want to take it all with a bucket of salt, be my guest, but if you know anything about PR, you know that word of mouth is your most powerful assett, and by and large it has turned on them. They are in damage control mode and you can guarantee that ZMM corporate is sending memos along the lines of "WTF GUYS!?" to ZOS.
It is easy to discount internet reaction in these cases, but it isn't helpful. Paul Sage said they were in fact paying attention to the feedback and the one thing they really didn't want was people to not care. According to him rage means people care, and that's better than nothing. That was right after the GI article leaked and forums, artilces and comments turned decidedly negative toward the game.
Watch these two videos. They are satirical in nature, and meant only to be funny, but illustrates pretty pointedly the roller-coaster that occured to many TES fans at the time ESO was announced.
Also, TES games have ALWAYS been skill-based and ALWAYS allowed custom classes, so I fail to see what early TES game they're talking about, Redguard perhaps? Classes themselves were only introduced in the second game (Daggerfall) to give people some predetermined skill-sets to choose from. In Arena, you just choose your Major, Minor and Lesser skills, attributes, and leave it at that.
So don't aren't you interested? Don't you want to know more now? Or you could scream on the forums the sky is falling. He said that they were going to maintain the ability to be who and what you want, just as the series has always done, now just within the context of a class. I'm intrigued to see how/if they can pull it off. You are certain they have made baby Jesus cry.
I absolutely want to know more, yes. I want to see it in action and above all I WANT to be proven WRONG. 100% that is my absolute desire right now. I want them to come out and say, "No everyone, you are all wrong, look, it is indistinguishable from the playstyle of Skyrim!" And then show a video that looks exactly like Skyrim (or ANY TES game frankly, I'd take Daggerfall over this, ha!) but with other players running around in a massive, seamless world.
Now that game looks like something amazing, and worthy of praise, even at pre-pre-pre-alpha stages.
But, as you can see, people aren't 'hearing' the things being said, but rather are already nit-picking each statement for the piece that confirms their pre-conceived notion.
Some are likely falling prey to that, yes, but others simply see it as them blowing smoke, trying to backtrack from their initial statements which were: We are making an MMORPG with TES lore for the TES fans, and "typical MMO gameplay" for the MMO fans. Now they want to try and convince the disgruntled TES fanbase that in fact their game-play was inspired by TES all along. Some of it, I'm sure was, but not enough of it. That "TES feeling" is about the whole, as Todd Howard attests to. Little tidbits here and there do not a TES game make, regardless of whether its single-player, co-op or massively multiplayer.
I just can't come to such stark conclusions because the devs 'might' be backpeddling. I heard them clarify, you heard them blowing smoke.
Clarification and stance-shifting are two very different things and if you can't tell the difference I really hope you aren't interested in politics.
It already seems to be impossible to actually 'discuss' our opinions about the game - its already turned into an angry mob - and they are governed by an ever evolving rational opinion based on evidence.
And whose fault is that? It certainly isn't the mob's. They are just reacting. If things had come out positively it would be a mob of praise and clamoring for more information. It is ZOS and their PR department's job to convey the game in the clearest sense possible. They did, it was very clear from that initial 12-page GI article what their intentions were. There were some nice things, but they were heavily outweighed by disappointing and mind-boggling decisions, which crushed the hopes of a great many of the fanbase.
Ok, then, carry that pitchfork high. I'm glad you are find it morally acceptable to be part of an irrational mob. You know - if you want to crucify someone, in court you probably shouldn't say, 'well he made me mad, so can you blame me?'
Personally, I believe it is right to calmly and rationally look at the entire spectrum of this game, of which we only have a glimpse. So, isn't patience still considered a virtue? Or is it really time to nail these folks to the cross?
And I would love to do that, truly, I would, but the combination of my love for this series as well as what they have been saying thus far simply prevents me. I'm sure I'll calm down at some point, and accept the fact that the one game I have always wanted will never, ever happen. Right now, I am in the "anger" stage of grief, and I freely admit that.
If I weren't such a huge TES fan I'd likely be laughing from the sidelines til I was blue in the face, but as I am, I am just so saddened and disappointed. TES is the largest selling WRPG series in history, and is widely regarded as also one of the highest quality (each one wins GOTY). ESO should have been the absolute pinnacle of what an MMORPG could have been. The fact that they have squandered that potential in order to seemingly rehash Matt Firor's ten-year-old design doc for DAOC is pretty depressing.
You absolutely need to take a chill pill. Stop watching this development so closely. Are you truly emotionally distraught because you have skepticism about a video game? Why don't you trust your instincts? If this is widely regarded as one of the highest quality rpg lines - why formulate a doom and gloom opinion about the first stages of public information which have all been edited without the interviewees input? Or at most, what I see is that seemingly conflicting information needs further explanation. Which is all I see that is happening here.
It's not skepticism, it's disappointment. And yes, I am that distraught. A chill-pill would do nicely. However, that would be the selfish route. Instead, I will, as painful as it is continue to voice my opinion.
This experience has actually made me sympathize with the people who were up in arms about Mass Effect 3's ending. I reacted in a similar way that you are reacting to me: "it's just a game, relax." But I suppose there are people out there who truly do love Mass Effect that much that they felt jilted by the abrupt ending. I was okay with it, not particularly pleased and I thought the extended cut did feel more satisfying, but I didn't take my opinion on it to the internet, I didn't feel stabbed in the heart/back like many Mass Effect fans did.
Now I know what they feel like and why they cried foul until something was done about it by EA, in the face of all the "chill-pills" trying to talk them down.
Does that mean I will stay that way? Well, it depends? Are they going to change their game to meet the needs of the millions of TES fans who want a TES MMO to play like a TES game?
Well they said it would.....but since they are obviously lying: From the stark contradiciton between them saying that and how the journalists have described it, I'd say that them lying (read: PR spin) is the most logical explanation.
Would you please list for me what MY needs as a TES fan are? Since you seem to be the spokesman for what the millions want?
Sure.
1. You need it to take place in the world of The Elder Scrolls and incorporate the extensive Elder Scrolls lore without destroying or re-writing it.
2. You need to feel the freedom of an Elder Scrolls game, where you are not led around by the nose, not locked into any pre-determined course, and not locked into any faction based on your choice of race.
3. You need to be able to interact with the world from a viable first and third-person perspective.
4. You need to be able to aim your attacks, and feel the weight of your hits on your enemy, using your environment to your advantage as much as your weapons or armor.
5. You need to be able to attack anyone or anything, anytime for any reason and take everything on their corpse, with just and mighty consequences for you if you do.
6. You need to find quests and tasks in non-obvious places, by investigating and talking to people, not having your quest-givers "glow."
7. You need to be able to choose to be an Imperial as a race if you so desire.
8. You need to be able to progress in the game by levelling skills through skill-use, not get generic XP from monster kills.
9. You need to be able to choose to have a custom class if you want, or pick a pre-determined set of skills.
10. You need the diverse, gritty and dangerous world of Tamriel to be seamless and explorable at any time at any level.
I would go as far to say that if you don't need at least half of these things, you are not a fan of TES. You may like it, but you could take it or leave it.
I imagine it would be similar to saying: "We're gonna make a new Star Trek show, except, instead of the Federation, we're gonna have the Empire and the Rebels, and instead of phasers, we're gonna have them use conventional firearms." Whether you like that idea or not, I guarantee you a Star Trek "fan" would not be into that. Hell, they railed about the new JJ Abrahms Star Trek reboot. I thought the movie was okay, not bad, pretty fun, but then, I'm not a fan of Star Trek, so all I cared about was it being a good movie.
Listen, I would bet money I've been playing TES games longer than you - I find it hard to believe you have been playing TES games since before "Arena" in 1994, since there weren't any released before then, still wanna bet that money? and this may come as a shock to you, but I could give a rats ass about whether this game is skill based or class based. You know why? Because I've played fun class based games. In fact, class based games made me love mmo's. So don't speak for what the millions of TES fans want, at best you are speaking for what the nerd-raging forum lurker TES fans want.
Limit your opinion to what you want out of the game and please stop extrapolating that you have every single fan of TES right behind you.
Okay, I will. I will let others speak for themselves, and if they agree with me, then great, if not, that's fine too.
But I stand by the idea that many people who have played TES and liked it are not going to feel at home in this game, even if they like other MMORPGs something will feel off to a great many people. Whether I'm right on that remains to be seen.
I see childish ranting. Instead of being excited about a new way of playing the TES, you've chosen to be pissed that they didn't take the same game they've had for 10 years plus and just dropped the graphix and added a multiplayer component. Whether that would work or not is entirely immaterial, because what you truly want is the same thing you have already played (Obl/Sky) while being completely pissed because you are 'guessing' they are making the same thing you have already played (mmo's).
What new way of playing TES? I don't see a new way. Not yet at least. I see a re-hash of old MMO tropes mashed together with a TES sticker slapped on them for brand recognition (read: TES: DAOC2) but nothing truly new about this.
See, if the MMO was actually evolving the TES formula, I'd be all about that, making changes that push it forward. Also you can't say I would want the "same thing" for the past ten years because each TES game has been different. Sure there are core tenants (most of which ESO seems to be throwing out the window) but each game has tried to evolve beyond the last game.
Why I'm pissed is not about it not being identical, or any of that. I'm angry/disappointed because, while it may be on the fore-front of what other new MMOs are doing like GW2 or Neverwinter, it is a step backwards for The Elder Scrolls as a franchise.
RPG features have always sought to simulate a fantasy world. As technology grows we get closer and closer to that simulation. Gary Gygax invented the D&D system he did to try and best simulate how it might actually happen, within the limiatations of the pen and paper medium.
Skyrim is the closest thing we've seen to a big-budget AAA fantasy simulator (ha I love that term now: fantasy simulator). One might scoff and say "but its not simulation," and they're right, its not, but its as close as they've come before doing some things that might break the game. But then you look at the modding scene, where there are tons of "immersion" mods that further the simulation aspects (eat, sleep, drink, hypothermia are some of the most popular mods available).
This is the first TES game that has not attempted to push any boundaries in the RPG genre. It is falling back on old, stale, outmoded systems that are, frankly, no longer necessary for the sophisticated RPG playerbase or the MMO format, especially those who play TES games.
But I like my big TV more than the mods /wink.
Heh I know what you mean, that's why I have my PC hooked up to a 60" plasma (don't worry, I do my word processing and web-surfing on a normal 30" monitor - but for gaming...oh good lord it's beautiful).
Edited the BG color because it was almost unreadable.
More on topic: As for the quote, I can see it is part of a larger statement,
You can't sell ham sandwiches to people that have been eating ham sandwiches every day for the last decade. Spicy mustard or miracle whip doesn't make your ham sandwich any more special then the other guys, and people are getting tired of eating your ham sandwiches. A little olive loaf every now and then isn't a bad thing.
Everything they're doing has already been talked up by countless other companies. There's nothing you can say at this point that people won't see through. Just shut up, develop it - you obviously don't care what any of the ES fans think - release it, and let it fall into the pit of mediocrity with every other themepark MMO that isn't WoW.
lol.
and at the deli next door you had a sandwich with a different tasty kind of bread on it and you walk into his store and he tells you that you dont want that kind of bread and besides its not really possible on a sandwich anyway
So Im guessing that putting a slice of cheese on that sandwich is Too Hard?
only if the sandwhich was built with cheese in mind from the start. Otherwise, it would just feel like a tacked on feature meant to appeal to a niche crowd...A delicious tacked on feature...
Im hungry now after all this sandwich talk.
The fun part of it all though is having the deli owner tell you 'you dont want it' as well as 'its not possible' while you are standing there in front of him eating a sandwhich with things on it he says you dont want and is not possible.
kind of like telling me I dont want player housing and FPS combat is not real;istcally possible in an MMO as I log into Darkfall for a massive war leaving from my house after him telling me its not possible and I dont want
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Comments
True, but I don't need a crystal ball for this one. It's a prediction, based on mountains of evidence, not only from TES, but from past MMOs. I could wrong, I could be right. We'll just have to wait and see.
But I'm right.
:P
We will see when they release it, if it fails you can jump in the air and scream I win. Not sure what your gonna win though.
Since 9 out of 10 MMOs either fails or barely survives it is not a hard bet and Firor did say an incredible stupid thing here but we have far too little information to be sure of anything besides that the game wont invent the features itself.
It could still steal little known features that most other games doesnt use or something and mixing features others already have invented can make a fun game that feels like nothing you played before, just look on GW2.
But I will not put any money that ESO will do well... It sounds far too much like a new WAR for that.
Sadly, the only winners are cynics and competitors.
But cynics are right far too often.
True, its an easier bet. I could really careless if it is a huge success or not, I just hope the game will be fun.
Me too, the world needs more fun games, not less.
If it's not fun, do I get to come back and validate my stance, then rub salt on the wounds of those defending it since the beginning?
I will accept defeat if it ends up being the second coming of christ, as a fair trade.
Writer / Musician / Game Designer
Now Playing: Skyrim, Wurm Online, Tropico 4
Waiting On: GW2, TSW, Archeage, The Rapture
You can dance in your chair for all I care. Nobody will probably care because they will look to the next big game announced. The world will not stop for any game.
~and I will be there too... stomping on all the flowers, and killing off the butterflies of their delusions again.
Writer / Musician / Game Designer
Now Playing: Skyrim, Wurm Online, Tropico 4
Waiting On: GW2, TSW, Archeage, The Rapture
What ever turns you on
Theme park gamers could very well be nomadic gamers, but so could any other type of gamer. That is just an assumption based on a personal opinion. It could also be very wrong. Gamers might not be nomadic at all if their beloved titles could provide the entertainment and excitement they require. Some game and developers can bring a title back to life several times over and others just can't get one to show any signs of life at all.
This thread is crammed full of highly disappointed people. That is understandable. I would love to see Skyrim Online. The reality is that it is just not going to happen. I have no idea exactly why, but I suspect that it is about money. A generic MMO with a multitude of familiar MMO components will sell far more boxes and subs than a complete copy of Skyrim with online multi-player features.
The reason for this different concept is because here on an MMO site people assume that their view of gaming is representative of every gamer. The reality is very different. Someone stated before that "most of the people that play Skyrim, or the Elder Scrolls also play MMOs" or something to that effect, I am paraphrasing mind you, but this is another assumption. Just because you are an MMO gamer and play an Elder Scrolls game does not mean that everyone else is. There are large groups of players that only play console games, and there are plenty of people that only play computer games.
This can be broken down into very finite groups such as players that only play Facebook games or FPS games and more or less obvious others. The main point is that too many people take their perspective or view and label everyone else with it as if there are no other options. While I would love to see Skyrim online with many if not all of the same features and design concepts I also look forward to what Zenimax has to offer and will reserve my judgement until I have played the game before choosing a yay or nay view.
I do believe that TESO is designed to attract casual gamers. The reason for this is simple. Casual gamers are easier to please, and willing to spend money without freaking out over every little hiccup they encounter. They are a big part of the MMO population. Their expectations are much lower than the hardcore players. They only play a few hours a week and they keep paying even if they are not playing. They don't read the forums, they don't rate the graphics or combat, they just play and have fun. Something hardcore MMO gamers seem to miss out on these days.
If most of the really negative people around here never play TESO, that would be for the best. I really have no desire to see you all flooding the chat channels with hate and bile due to a preconceived notion of failure. You are entitled to your opinions and you are certainly not forced to play. I just hope you folks can actually stay away though. The game could actually be fun to play, but your negativity is like a virus. Some of you are trying to kill it out of shear spite due to missed expectations. It is as if some people have decided that if you can't have the game you wanted, you are determined to make everyone else agree. I picture children throwing temper tantrums when they don't get what they want. Every post and thread seems to drip with child like frustration instead of legitimate concern.
A thoughtful post, to be sure, but I imagine people's disappointment will only grow as we learn more and more about the game.
Frankly, it serves ZOS right if there are tons of negative people on their forums and in their game (although I don't see why, if you're so disappointed in the game, that you'd pay any money toward it - unless its F2P in which case, divines help them). That is no-one's fault but their own. They can either course-correct and try to fix these things, or they can jam their heads firmly in the sand until launch and pretend everything is fine.
They will ultimately reap what they sow.
It is just a pity that people's hopes and dreams for a proper TES MMORPG are being reaped along with them.
sounds like good times!
nothing more satisfying that stoping the butterfiles of delusional people who are able to take actions on their insanity simply because they have several million dollars in their pocket and the authority to tell developers what to do like puppet masters
That is the best kind of fun!
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
Frankly, it serves ZOS right if there are tons of negative people on their forums and in their game (although I don't see why, if you're so disappointed in the game, that you'd pay any money toward it - unless its F2P in which case, divines help them). That is no-one's fault but their own. They can either course-correct and try to fix these things, or they can jam their heads firmly in the sand until launch and pretend everything is fine.
They will ultimately reap what they sow.
It is just a pity that people's hopes and dreams for a proper TES MMORPG are being reaped along with them.
Like many others I am disappointed that what I imagined the MMO would be like is going to have a different art style and a more casual approach. I am not so disappointed that I will hate the game out of spite, but rather give them a chance to put out what could be a quality game that is fun to play even if it is not exactly like Skyrim.
I am not certain I am going to buy it. I would wait to see actual game play, perhaps get in some beta testing if possible and make my choice at that time. Bashing the game at this stage based on some interviews is very premature at this point. People have their panties in a knot over speculation. Every time someone at Zenimax farts this board lights up with doom threads.
TESO might very well fail. I just would prefer to give them a chance to fail or not before dropping the axe. Civilized people call it a trial.
Before TESO was announced, I'm pretty sure the idea of an ES based MMO had been discussed more then a few times over the years. People would list off which ES title would be better suited, which region(s) it should take place in, etc, etc. I can't help but wonder how many of those discussions ever envisioned the set of features we are hearing about today.
I get people that approve of the info that's been released so far and glad they are happy. That said, I would put myself in the shoes of those who never expected an ES MMO to take the direction it appears to be going. Don't mistake this for being a "hater" as I am really trying to take a 'wait and see' mentality, but I can understand those who might feel a bit 'blindsided' and detached from a game that, had it continued to evolve the 'ES formula', they would have embraced with open arms....Well, this is mmorpg.com, so 'open arms' might be expecting too much, but it would have at least gotten a chest bump.
More on topic: As for the quote, I can see it is part of a larger statement, but I'm not sure that vindicates the speaker much. Honestly, this could turn out to be a great game, but maybe they should just let a community manager speak in interviews and let the production/dev people do what they do. I mean, the fact we are talking more about some guys pedigree and things he's said, rather then the game itself is a bit of a warning sign....It reminds me a bit of WarHammer in that respect.
-mklinic
"Do something right, no one remembers.
Do something wrong, no one forgets"
-from No One Remembers by In Strict Confidence
I'm not really responding to you, I've just seen variations of this comment a lot in multiple locations.
"context" is usually what it comes down to.
The quote is ENTIRELY within it's context. There was no larger thought, or point that was being made to apply it to. He was speaking on the concept of innovation in MMO's and nothing more when he said what he said. The rest of what he said didn't even really have anything to do with innovation, and only contradicted what he said anyways.
He was making the point that there ISN'T MUCH ROOM TO INNOVATE, because everything you can do in an MMO has already been done. There is no outside conetext when you say that, and that is exactly what he was saying.
The point he was attempting to make was WHY YOU SEE THE SAME THINGS USED IN A LOT OF MMO'S. THAT was the context. Why are is there so much, what seems like, cut and paste development in MMO's? Because pretty much everything that can be done, has been done, and that doesn't leave much room to innovate.
He then proceeded to ramble on about people playing korean MMO's. The worste thing he actually said was that "you don't look at what other people are doing to get ideas, and use them", or something to that effect. Yet that is EXACTLY what they're doing.
Firor is back pedalling on most of the stuff he originally said.
First he said combat would be you're typical hotbar style combat, with a control scheme and feel simillar to WoW, and not "real time". When people got mad over that, he then switched to calling it "action" combat.
He said that the game needed to be familliar to the general MMOer because if the game played like skryim then people wouldn't really understand how to play it. A little paraphrasing, but that is exactly what he said. Then, in the exact same interview that the quote we're discussing came from, he said that the game would have the same races, lore, and minimul UI to be accessable to console gamers who played ES. He's trying to move away from the image that the game is developed to appeal to the "typical" mmo gamer, and make it look like they're making it with the intent to appeal to ES players.
Mcklinic is very right. Firor needs to stop talking. He's doing nothing to help the negative image the game has recieved, and only digging a deeper and deeper hole.
There's nothing that they can say about this game that is going to make people who've been playing MMO's for the last 10 years think that they have to play this. Outside of using the ES setting, there's nothing they're doing that sets it appart, and most of it's only going to appeal to people who liked the wowified version of DAoC.
You can't sell ham sandwiches to people that have been eating ham sandwiches every day for the last decade. Spicy mustard or miracle whip doesn't make your ham sandwich any more special then the other guys, and people are getting tired of eating your ham sandwiches. A little olive loaf every now and then isn't a bad thing.
Everything they're doing has already been talked up by countless other companies. There's nothing you can say at this point that people won't see through. Just shut up, develop it - you obviously don't care what any of the ES fans think - release it, and let it fall into the pit of mediocrity with every other themepark MMO that isn't WoW.
lol.
and at the deli next door you had a sandwich with a different tasty kind of bread on it and you walk into his store and he tells you that you dont want that kind of bread and besides its not really possible on a sandwich anyway
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
So Im guessing that putting a slice of cheese on that sandwich is Too Hard?
Tried: EQ2 - AC - EU - HZ - TR - MxO - TTO - WURM - SL - VG:SoH - PotBS - PS - AoC - WAR - DDO - SWTOR
Played: UO - EQ1 - AO - DAoC - NC - CoH/CoV - SWG - WoW - EVE - AA - LotRO - DFO - STO - FE - MO - RIFT
Playing: Skyrim
Following: The Repopulation
I want a Virtual World, not just a Game.
ITS TOO HARD! - Matt Firor (ZeniMax)
only if the sandwhich was built with cheese in mind from the start. Otherwise, it would just feel like a tacked on feature meant to appeal to a niche crowd...A delicious tacked on feature...
-mklinic
"Do something right, no one remembers.
Do something wrong, no one forgets"
-from No One Remembers by In Strict Confidence
Im hungry now after all this sandwich talk.
Let me throw you a curve ball. I play mmo's on my PC. But I got skyrim and oblivion for the PS3. Although there are probably people who trend one direction or the other, remember, there are some of us who actually utilize both pc and console for things.
Everything above has this huge assumption that you must be either pc or console, but never the twain shall meet. What a bunch of hooey. Sure there are those who only console. Sure, there are those that only pc. But I bet the bulk of the bell curve is gamers who use both.
Agreed. I know a lot of people who have it for a console AND PC. They like toi play on their giant tvs and at the same time take advantage of mods.
On another note, you are definitely missing out on the Skyrim mod scene,
I recommend grabbing for PC too.
and at your other reply: But I like my big TV more than the mods /wink.
Edited the BG color because it was almost unreadable.
The fun part of it all though is having the deli owner tell you 'you dont want it' as well as 'its not possible' while you are standing there in front of him eating a sandwhich with things on it he says you dont want and is not possible.
kind of like telling me I dont want player housing and FPS combat is not real;istcally possible in an MMO as I log into Darkfall for a massive war leaving from my house after him telling me its not possible and I dont want
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me