Fail condition no.1 would be that the game releases unoptimized POS like it is right now.
More on this: they stated than at the time the game is CPU driven, so its not wonder why it is laggy for many people. I personally didnt had any major issues out of locking my Elemental out of servers for hour span for some times, but it is another thing. Even on my 5 year old PC i got around 35 - 40 FPS measured with Fraps (well nothing perfect but still very smooth). So dont worry, even if you DID have performance issues, Guild Wars 2 will be GPU driven at release, and most GPU from last 5 years are strong enough to pull-out anything with DirectX 9 visuals. Notebooks, however, may be exceptions.
On topic: as a condition of failing, i can see only condition being come ridiculous design desicion that they may put some close time before release that can chase-off many potential players, made far less copies being sold than planed and many pre-purchases returned.
For ex. they can decide to make gear mandatory for game regardless, make boss drops % of items dramatically smaler and... prepare for this... introduse RMAH. Even despite this, some other game with this same system sold around 6 million copies, which is not fail from financial point of view either.
So, my final conclusion: i can hardly see game fails financially, due to all this hype and its business model, however will it manage to keep server populations for the months to come? That is question for one of my next posts.
Main MMO at the moment: Guild Wars 2 Waiting for: Pathfinder Online
The game is not DESIGNED for open PvP - what part of that don't you get.
Again, it is your opinion - and open PvP has never sold a game - PERIOD. It is a very niche market and one that A.Net, I hope, will not cater too. There are other games for open PvPers.
If all their doing is selling boxes to make a profit then its going to be very hard to make a fail condition for the game because you cant see a "sub reduction" or a revenue loss easily.
If after a year, the game only has 10,000 active players its not going matter at all because the boxes have already been sold right?.
Exception to this is the cash shop, But that relies on people actually buying to from there to make a profit anyway.
Its the same "fail" condition as any other MMO. If it only has 10k active players they will shut the servers down. Thus, fail condition.
What players think is a "fail condition" actually doesnt matter at all. A true fail condition is when the games servers shut down. Because at that point you KNOW the game is no longer making any money. GW2 will be no diffrent. When the cash shop, box sales, and expansion sales stop making Anet money they will shut the servers down plain and simple. The exception are older games that a small verry supportive playerbase still plays and the company uses money from other games to keep the servers running. A prime example would be Asherons Call. There is still a small tight community playing that. Turbine continues to run thoes servers because of D&D and LOTRO profits now. But even if they shut down AC could you really call it a failed state after a decade+ of the servers being up?
But with the design choices they have made, they don't really need to close servers. Because of the free quest function in PvE they can live with having 90% servers empty and not having to chance any thing- and they will be really good to have when alot of players return (just before a new expansion hits).
And few players realise that the don't have to merge servers to make fair WvW matchups. And even if some servers truly become low populated, nothing (except from rankings) prevent ArenaNet from letting the lowest servers join sides to make a 2vs2vs1 matchup as exsample, to get things interesting.
Originally posted by The_Korrigan Guys, learn to read post histories...
What is that meant to imply?
Wasn't meaning you - fixed my previous post so it's more obvious.
BTW, I can tell you the two fail conditions for TSW if you want, since you come here to tell us about our game.
1) It's Funcom. 'nuff said. Just PRAY that they don't screw up their launch...
2) It's just as linear as SW:TOR, same model, same story based progression... and same amount of players bored after a couple of months when they finished the storyline once.
Many like GW2 because it restores freedom of choice to the player instead of leading him on a rail. Many "veterans" have been waiting for a game like that since Asheron's Call. Those are the "success conditions" of GW2 compared to games like SW:TOR or TSW.
Respect, walk, what did you say? Respect, walk Are you talkin' to me? Are you talkin' to me? - PANTERA at HELLFEST 2023
Originally posted by The_KorriganI can tell you the two fail conditions for TSW if you want, since you come here to tell us about our game.
"Our game" lol, what if its mine too? - didn't tell anything, i'm asking.
1) It's Funcom. 'nuff said.
I thought you were a very logical man korrigan,*sigh* Should not every product be judged on its own merit? But i guess one could argue that you could see past "alleged" fails of funcom products as a precursor. However, they are all still running i beleive. So back to: "what is a games fail condition?"
2) It's just as linear as SW:TOR, same model, same story based progression... and same amount of players bored after a couple of months when they finished the storyline once.
So paraphrasing: low sub numbers because of unpopular design choices leads to failure? I would ague in this case if the game still makes a product it hasnt failed until it shuts its doors. imo
Many like GW2 because it restores freedom of choice to the player instead of leading him on a rail. Many "veterans" have been waiting for a game like that since Asheron's Call. Those are the "success conditions" of GW2 compared to games like SW:TOR or TSW.
Aye but can i not argue that many don't want this? there is still millions of wow players out there that want the very opposite?.
In closing: I think very low retention will cause the secret world to fail.
TSW - AoC - Aion - WOW - EVE - Fallen Earth - Co - Rift - || XNA C# Java Development
I bought Guild Wars, Guild Wars Factions, Guild Wars Nightfall, and two extra character slots from the cash shop. I know people will use the cash shop because they did in GW1. I will not buy GW2, and I will not use the GW2 cash shop. I am not alone in this opinion, and Anet will feel our absence even if you will not let us speak or listen to what we say.
Pardon any spelling errors
Konfess your cyns and some maybe forgiven Boy: Why can't I talk to Him? Mom: We don't talk to Priests. As if it could exist, without being payed for. F2P means you get what you paid for. Pay nothing, get nothing. Even telemarketers wouldn't think that. It costs money to play. Therefore P2W.
2) It's just as linear as SW:TOR, same model, same story based progression... and same amount of players bored after a couple of months when they finished the storyline once.
Many like GW2 because it restores freedom of choice to the player instead of leading him on a rail. Many "veterans" have been waiting for a game like that since Asheron's Call. Those are the "success conditions" of GW2 compared to games like SW:TOR or TSW.
I'd like to know how TSW is linear like SWTOR. But whatever.
Also, you do know that pve in mmorpg is story based, right? What happens when you finish the story? Yes, that's a problem that TSW does face indeed, but how is GW2 any different? I ask you, what happens when after 3 months you run out of DE, grinding dungeons, pvp in the same maps, doing more SP story, etc?
This actually ties into te OP's question. GW2 is still a themepark. What's going to happen when there's nothing left to do in the game expect grind pvp and the same pve content? You know, like all mmorpgs? If there's nothing left to do, players might start to leave, which means less money for Anet.
Pesonally, i feel this is enough to get my money's worth if i buy it, but we are talking about overall financial sucess of the game (as always in these forums)
I bought Guild Wars, Guild Wars Factions, Guild Wars Nightfall, and two extra character slots from the cash shop. I know people will use the cash shop because they did in GW1. I will not buy GW2, and I will not use the GW2 cash shop. I am not alone in this opinion, and Anet will feel our absence even if you will not let us speak or listen to what we say.
Pardon me, not meant to be an a*s, but what this have to do with topic? Wanted to say Cash Shop may be a failing condition?
If cash shop is main factor of failing, then League of Legends would be dead long ago, and LotrO would be Ghost town by now. You may be not alone, but many will use Cash Shop still (and dont even start on p2w thing, its goddamn ancient).
Main MMO at the moment: Guild Wars 2 Waiting for: Pathfinder Online
Guild Wars 2 is a huge improvement. I for one will be using the cash shop to buy additional character slots and other account items. And all expansions.
The servers aren't going to shut down. You guys are really funny. The game isn't even out yet and we have people analyzing their longevity based on gut reactions.
You guys should all be market analysts! You're SOOOOO good at it!
Originally posted by The_KorriganI can tell you the two fail conditions for TSW if you want, since you come here to tell us about our game.
"Our game" lol, what if its mine too? - didn't tell anything, i'm asking.
It was a "way to speak", so to day... your game for now seems to be TSW, according to your signature, icon, post history. You're welcome to play GW2 of course.
1) It's Funcom. 'nuff said.
I thought you were a very logical man korrigan,*sigh* Should not every product be judged on its own merit? But i guess one could argue that you could see past "alleged" fails of funcom products as a precursor. However, they are all still running i beleive. So back to: "what is a games fail condition?"
But I am logical... Funcom screwed AO, a VERY good game I played in beta and at release, because of a bugged and incomplete release. They screwed AoC's release again. And there are already hints of lag and also mysterious crashes to desktop in TSW beta... and we are a few days from release. My logic makes me be VERY cautious when it comes to Funcom products, and rightfully so. I hope, for you fans, that I am wrong though.
2) It's just as linear as SW:TOR, same model, same story based progression... and same amount of players bored after a couple of months when they finished the storyline once.
So paraphrasing: low sub numbers because of unpopular design choices leads to failure? I would ague in this case if the game still makes a product it hasnt failed until it shuts its doors. imo
SW:TOR hasn't failed, but is doing major server transfers as we speak. Rift, another very linear MMO, had to do the same. Remember, we talk about fail CONDITIONS (your own word!) here. Those games didn't totally fail (yet), but lost a substancial part of their player base.
Many like GW2 because it restores freedom of choice to the player instead of leading him on a rail. Many "veterans" have been waiting for a game like that since Asheron's Call. Those are the "success conditions" of GW2 compared to games like SW:TOR or TSW.
Aye but can i not argue that many don't want this? there is still millions of wow players out there that want the very opposite?.
According to Blizzard themself, only 30% of the players continue to play after level 10. I'm not making that up, it comes from an official source. They actually made changes, and keep on making more in Pandaria, to try to change that. So there's a HUGE potential player base which did not adhere to the WoW clone model. GW2 is a good candidate for those people.
In closing: I think very low retention will cause the secret world to fail.
I don't think TSW will fail completely, but I have no doubt it will end free to play just like Conan. We are one week before release, and it's way too late to change the "fail conditions" that are already built into the core of the game.
As for GW2 - I don't see any major fail conditions so far. You may tell me "what will people do at level 80", and that's where the game's payment model comes in... ANet has the incentive to add frequent, substancial and fun content additions to keep people paying for them, and playing.
Respect, walk, what did you say? Respect, walk Are you talkin' to me? Are you talkin' to me? - PANTERA at HELLFEST 2023
I was not a GW1 fan, but I am a big GW2 fan and I can tell you it is going to take a lot more than 7 million total sales over years and years to make GW2 as much of a "success" as GW1 simply because the development time/costs of GW2 have to be a whole heck of a lot bigger than GW2.
it is going to take a lot more than 7 million total sales over years and years to make GW2 as much of a "success" as GW1 simply because the development time/costs of GW2 have to be a whole heck of a lot bigger than GW2.
Originally posted by jessie360 This thread takes all my lulz.
Guild Wars (the original) is still going strong.
Guild Wars 2 is a huge improvement. I for one will be using the cash shop to buy additional character slots and other account items. And all expansions.
The servers aren't going to shut down. You guys are really funny. The game isn't even out yet and we have people analyzing their longevity based on gut reactions.
You guys should all be market analysts! You're SOOOOO good at it!
I never started anything of the sort. Go read my op in its entirety.
I'm actually praising their marketing minds here. But i would like to know what would put a "spana in the works"
TSW - AoC - Aion - WOW - EVE - Fallen Earth - Co - Rift - || XNA C# Java Development
I was not a GW1 fan, but I am a big GW2 fan and I can tell you it is going to take a lot more than 7 million total sales over years and years to make GW2 as much of a "success" as GW1 simply because the development time/costs of GW2 have to be a whole heck of a lot bigger than GW2.
Not saying you're wrong, but where did you get your inside info? Has Anet released their budget and expenses for both GW1 and GW2? How did you compare them?
I believe people need to back up their claims if they are to be taken seriously.
Unless you know inside information personally, you have no clue what it would take to make this game successful; you are just using arbitrary numbers you think make sense.
Originally posted by FredomSekerZ players might start to leave, which means less money for Anet.
My question was does it really? lol but whatever
Well i'd say so. It's important to remmeber P2P games also sell boxes, with most of them selling abit over 1 million. If this was the only measure of sucess, there's no real failed p2p game. So, thread end? Also, SWTOR sold 2 million.
Also, you do know that pve in mmorpg is story based, right? What happens when you finish the story? Yes, that's a problem that TSW does face indeed, but how is GW2 any different? I ask you, what happens when after 3 months you run out of DE, grinding dungeons, pvp in the same maps, doing more SP story, etc?
Make an alt and experience entirely new content? Revisit old areas and experience the old DEs but in a drastically different way (different outcomes)?
There are at least 15 different personal stories for you to explore, with countless variations in them, after all you answer 3 questions to form your story. They will probably reach a very high level, unlike other MMOs where your Personal Story ends rather quickly.
There are also the three factions afterwards, you need 3 characters at least for them, so no you won't manage to do all this in 3 months, it's impossible.
Also keep in mind that even if you play the exact same Personal Story twice you can a) make choices that affect the story (not just dialogue) and b) everytime you leave a town you don't know the state of the world, DEs are really Dynamic (hence the name) and have different outcomes, so you face different objectives.
The devs already stated that holidays from GW1 will transfer to GW2, most offer new quests and new activities for players to explore and enjoy, even coming back just for them is possible. There will be free and paid expansions as well so I don't think we will run out of content in 2013
Replayability is very very high in the game.
Block the trolls, don't answer them, so we can remove the garbage from these forums
Comments
GW2 will fail until they add open pvp.
More on this: they stated than at the time the game is CPU driven, so its not wonder why it is laggy for many people. I personally didnt had any major issues out of locking my Elemental out of servers for hour span for some times, but it is another thing. Even on my 5 year old PC i got around 35 - 40 FPS measured with Fraps (well nothing perfect but still very smooth). So dont worry, even if you DID have performance issues, Guild Wars 2 will be GPU driven at release, and most GPU from last 5 years are strong enough to pull-out anything with DirectX 9 visuals. Notebooks, however, may be exceptions.
On topic: as a condition of failing, i can see only condition being come ridiculous design desicion that they may put some close time before release that can chase-off many potential players, made far less copies being sold than planed and many pre-purchases returned.
For ex. they can decide to make gear mandatory for game regardless, make boss drops % of items dramatically smaler and... prepare for this... introduse RMAH. Even despite this, some other game with this same system sold around 6 million copies, which is not fail from financial point of view either.
So, my final conclusion: i can hardly see game fails financially, due to all this hype and its business model, however will it manage to keep server populations for the months to come? That is question for one of my next posts.
Main MMO at the moment: Guild Wars 2
Waiting for: Pathfinder Online
I actually cant see that as a fail condition lol.
TSW - AoC - Aion - WOW - EVE - Fallen Earth - Co - Rift - || XNA C# Java Development
The game is not DESIGNED for open PvP - what part of that don't you get.
Again, it is your opinion - and open PvP has never sold a game - PERIOD. It is a very niche market and one that A.Net, I hope, will not cater too. There are other games for open PvPers.
GW2 will not fail.
Oh look, i dont love not having open world PvP so GW2 will fail and will be worst dissapointment in industry since E.T.
I really dont want to sound like Fanboy, but some people here are making me to lol.
EDIT: typo
Main MMO at the moment: Guild Wars 2
Waiting for: Pathfinder Online
Guys, learn to read post histories... for this one:
Obvious agenda is... obvious ;-)
*makes Jedi mind trick move with his hand" this game is not for you, and you do not want to post on its forum... =P
Respect, walk
Are you talkin' to me? Are you talkin' to me?
- PANTERA at HELLFEST 2023
What is that meant to imply?
TSW - AoC - Aion - WOW - EVE - Fallen Earth - Co - Rift - || XNA C# Java Development
But with the design choices they have made, they don't really need to close servers. Because of the free quest function in PvE they can live with having 90% servers empty and not having to chance any thing- and they will be really good to have when alot of players return (just before a new expansion hits).
And few players realise that the don't have to merge servers to make fair WvW matchups. And even if some servers truly become low populated, nothing (except from rankings) prevent ArenaNet from letting the lowest servers join sides to make a 2vs2vs1 matchup as exsample, to get things interesting.
Wasn't meaning you - fixed my previous post so it's more obvious.
BTW, I can tell you the two fail conditions for TSW if you want, since you come here to tell us about our game.
1) It's Funcom. 'nuff said. Just PRAY that they don't screw up their launch...
2) It's just as linear as SW:TOR, same model, same story based progression... and same amount of players bored after a couple of months when they finished the storyline once.
Many like GW2 because it restores freedom of choice to the player instead of leading him on a rail. Many "veterans" have been waiting for a game like that since Asheron's Call. Those are the "success conditions" of GW2 compared to games like SW:TOR or TSW.
Respect, walk
Are you talkin' to me? Are you talkin' to me?
- PANTERA at HELLFEST 2023
In closing: I think very low retention will cause the secret world to fail.
TSW - AoC - Aion - WOW - EVE - Fallen Earth - Co - Rift - || XNA C# Java Development
I bought Guild Wars, Guild Wars Factions, Guild Wars Nightfall, and two extra character slots from the cash shop. I know people will use the cash shop because they did in GW1. I will not buy GW2, and I will not use the GW2 cash shop. I am not alone in this opinion, and Anet will feel our absence even if you will not let us speak or listen to what we say.
Boy: Why can't I talk to Him?
Mom: We don't talk to Priests.
As if it could exist, without being payed for.
F2P means you get what you paid for. Pay nothing, get nothing.
Even telemarketers wouldn't think that.
It costs money to play. Therefore P2W.
I'd like to know how TSW is linear like SWTOR. But whatever.
Also, you do know that pve in mmorpg is story based, right? What happens when you finish the story? Yes, that's a problem that TSW does face indeed, but how is GW2 any different? I ask you, what happens when after 3 months you run out of DE, grinding dungeons, pvp in the same maps, doing more SP story, etc?
This actually ties into te OP's question. GW2 is still a themepark. What's going to happen when there's nothing left to do in the game expect grind pvp and the same pve content? You know, like all mmorpgs? If there's nothing left to do, players might start to leave, which means less money for Anet.
Pesonally, i feel this is enough to get my money's worth if i buy it, but we are talking about overall financial sucess of the game (as always in these forums)
My question was does it really? lol but whatever
TSW - AoC - Aion - WOW - EVE - Fallen Earth - Co - Rift - || XNA C# Java Development
If the game did more money than total running cost it ain´t a total failure as long as it will stay up for some years.
I would say success is to sell more boxes than GW1 (3,5 million accounts, a bit over 7 million boxes all together).
Anything in between is mediocrity.
Pardon me, not meant to be an a*s, but what this have to do with topic? Wanted to say Cash Shop may be a failing condition?
If cash shop is main factor of failing, then League of Legends would be dead long ago, and LotrO would be Ghost town by now. You may be not alone, but many will use Cash Shop still (and dont even start on p2w thing, its goddamn ancient).
Main MMO at the moment: Guild Wars 2
Waiting for: Pathfinder Online
This thread takes all my lulz.
Guild Wars (the original) is still going strong.
Guild Wars 2 is a huge improvement. I for one will be using the cash shop to buy additional character slots and other account items. And all expansions.
The servers aren't going to shut down. You guys are really funny. The game isn't even out yet and we have people analyzing their longevity based on gut reactions.
You guys should all be market analysts! You're SOOOOO good at it!
I don't think TSW will fail completely, but I have no doubt it will end free to play just like Conan. We are one week before release, and it's way too late to change the "fail conditions" that are already built into the core of the game.
As for GW2 - I don't see any major fail conditions so far. You may tell me "what will people do at level 80", and that's where the game's payment model comes in... ANet has the incentive to add frequent, substancial and fun content additions to keep people paying for them, and playing.
Respect, walk
Are you talkin' to me? Are you talkin' to me?
- PANTERA at HELLFEST 2023
I was not a GW1 fan, but I am a big GW2 fan and I can tell you it is going to take a lot more than 7 million total sales over years and years to make GW2 as much of a "success" as GW1 simply because the development time/costs of GW2 have to be a whole heck of a lot bigger than GW2.
I cannot argue with that
EQ2 fan sites
I never started anything of the sort. Go read my op in its entirety.
I'm actually praising their marketing minds here. But i would like to know what would put a "spana in the works"
TSW - AoC - Aion - WOW - EVE - Fallen Earth - Co - Rift - || XNA C# Java Development
Not saying you're wrong, but where did you get your inside info? Has Anet released their budget and expenses for both GW1 and GW2? How did you compare them?
I believe people need to back up their claims if they are to be taken seriously.
Unless you know inside information personally, you have no clue what it would take to make this game successful; you are just using arbitrary numbers you think make sense.
Well i'd say so. It's important to remmeber P2P games also sell boxes, with most of them selling abit over 1 million. If this was the only measure of sucess, there's no real failed p2p game. So, thread end? Also, SWTOR sold 2 million.
that blizzard quote is taken out of context
only 30% of TRIAL players play beyond 10
http://ve3d.ign.com/articles/news/52996/World-Of-Warcraft-70-Of-Trial-Players-Give-Up-Before-Level-Ten
EQ2 fan sites
I was remarking on what others have said, not you OP.
Make an alt and experience entirely new content? Revisit old areas and experience the old DEs but in a drastically different way (different outcomes)?
There are at least 15 different personal stories for you to explore, with countless variations in them, after all you answer 3 questions to form your story. They will probably reach a very high level, unlike other MMOs where your Personal Story ends rather quickly.
There are also the three factions afterwards, you need 3 characters at least for them, so no you won't manage to do all this in 3 months, it's impossible.
Also keep in mind that even if you play the exact same Personal Story twice you can a) make choices that affect the story (not just dialogue) and b) everytime you leave a town you don't know the state of the world, DEs are really Dynamic (hence the name) and have different outcomes, so you face different objectives.
The devs already stated that holidays from GW1 will transfer to GW2, most offer new quests and new activities for players to explore and enjoy, even coming back just for them is possible. There will be free and paid expansions as well so I don't think we will run out of content in 2013
Replayability is very very high in the game.
Block the trolls, don't answer them, so we can remove the garbage from these forums