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Guild Wars 2: Pleasing the Veterans

SBFordSBFord Associate Editor - News ManagerThe Land of AZPosts: 16,659MMORPG.COM Staff Uncommon

In our latest column devoted to Guild Wars 2, we take a look at what Arena.Net is doing or must do to please the many veterans that will carry over from Guild Wars 1 to the newer game. See what we think needs to happen and then leave us your thoughts in the comments.

There are millions of fans of the original Guild Wars game, and we are going to be the toughest critics that ArenaNet can try to please. One of the reasons we Guild Wars veterans fell in love with the original games, was that they were just different. While they had a lot of similarities with MMOs, such as controls and similar UI layouts, it was the importance of skills, strategy, and less emphasis on what items you had, that gave us a breath of fresh air from endless grinding. I was a player that came from playing MMOs one after the other, looking from something that felt new and interesting. When I played Guild Wars, I noticed my skills were more important than how rare and great my weapons and armor were.

Read more of David North's Guild Wars 2: Pleasing the Veterans.

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If a player spends a lot of time into playing a certain game, it becomes the only game they really see. A player can get really obsessed.

Associate Editor: MMORPG.com
Follow me on Twitter: @MMORPGMom

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Comments

  • werewoodwerewood GTA, ONPosts: 76Member

    From a business model perspective, that player base that would want to stick with GW1, is the only group of people that GW2 doesnt have to appeal to. ANet is trying to get new customers, while not loosing what they already have. Anyway, its a fair question, but not a must question I think. If someone likes a game that much he is probably like the guys who still play Vanguard or EQ. Which is again just as cool.

  • DJJazzyDJJazzy louisville, COPosts: 2,053Member

    Played GW since release in 2005. I'm pretty happy with how GW2 has developed for the most part. There are a few things which GW had that I wish GW2 had but not sure I should get into that here (I know how these threads start to break down with arguments that way).

  • ShariestShariest VarkausPosts: 44Member

    Meh never played Guild Wars The First---Altough i think i have friend who was inches away from becoming a GW I fanboy... 

    I am sometimes more than thankfull of never playing or seeing originals on this era of sequels. While waiting for GWII :)

  • BadSpockBadSpock Somewhere, MIPosts: 7,974Member

    I could never get into GW1, I tried a couple of times but the CO-RPG aspects just were too foreign to me to really feel like I was playing a MMO.

    I thought the controls were clunky and the dependance on henchman and such was offputting.

    I love GW2. It really feels like a MMO, more so than any MMO I've played since... early WoW? UO?

    The biggest I think most important game-changer Anet has done with GW2 is removing the competitive feeling to PvE where you view other players as an annoyance or direct competitor against YOUR progress.

    By making everything open, everything cooperative, everything group/party friendly (w/o actualy having to group up) is a real game changer, IMO.

    I feel like I can log in and actually play WITH other people, doesn't matter what class or level they are, doesn't matter what quest chain they are on, doesn't even matter what server they are on!

    PvE done right - and I've always been PvE > PvP.

  • ZeGermanZeGerman Andover, MAPosts: 197Member Uncommon

    My biggest concern with gw2 is the number of raw skills.  Yes there are plenty, but I felt a little limited playing mesmer cause most of the skill point skills were completely unapealing.  I think they should keep all the skills they have and reintroduce skill captures for highest level players.  These skills wouldnt be better than other skills just different and provide even more variety. 

    I know people worry that with more skills the likely hood of imbalance is hgih but that is only true for people with limited imaginations, for a while in GW1 people smite monk teams were huge and everyone screamed nerf, until people started running mesmer elemental dot teams that just destroyed them.

  • WildNatureWildNature FT CAMPBELL, KYPosts: 51Member

    Do you really think you are entitled to such a thing? REALLY!? You bought a boxed game friggen-A. Congrats...pat yourself on the back.


    * Good, honorable, gamers will continue to pay the bills so freeloaders can enjoy the game.
    * Sandboxers and Carebears are 2 sides to the same coin.

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  • tv2zulutv2zulu CopenhagenPosts: 73Member
    Originally posted by werewood

    From a business model perspective, that player base that would want to stick with GW1, is the only group of people that GW2 doesnt have to appeal to. ANet is trying to get new customers, while not loosing what they already have. Anyway, its a fair question, but not a must question I think. If someone likes a game that much he is probably like the guys who still play Vanguard or EQ. Which is again just as cool.

    There's no subscription fee, and they are not releasing any new GW1 expansions.

    From a business perspective, they want as many GW1 players to buy GW2 boxes. The GW1 cash shop is hardly going to sustain the resources required to keep GW1 profitable. Once GW2 launches, that will be the only source of income for GW1, except for the odd GW1 box sale ( for completionists that crave the HoM items in GW2 most likely ).

  • TekaelonTekaelon Brookhaven, MSPosts: 532Member Uncommon
    LOVED GW1, but I'm ready to move forward with new gameplay mechanics and better technology. Having played GW1 makes returning to the world that much more exciting because I'll be able to revisit all the old locals.
  • AnthurAnthur StolbergPosts: 686Member Uncommon

    This just reminds me off EQ/EQ2. I played both. Unfortunately many EQ players thougth EQ2 would be EQ++. But it wasn't. It was a very different game just sharing the same lore.

    Reading comments on mmorpg and elsewhere from GW1 veterans about GW2 I also see those comments that they are disappointed by GW2 because it is not a GW++. Mostly because they miss features from GW which they liked there. GW2 and GW share the same lore, but that's it. If you are not open for changes, even drastic ones compared to GW, a GW veteran will not be happy in GW2.

  • kastakasta Mineola, TXPosts: 512Member

    Absolutely hated GW1.  Bought it, played it for a few hours and gave up.  Never bought an expansion and never even saw the cash store.  GW2 I played the first BWE after prepurchasing it because I liked what they were saying and I love it.  I think I'll be playing it for quite a while.

  • makiimakii noPosts: 280Member

    super hype for a game that is boring. I loved GW1 for the pve and pvp. PvP in GW2 is so boring and not innovativ at all. I dont know much about the PvE aspect yet, since i didnt make that far., but to be honest, it didnt hook me like GW1.

    What i miss in GW2 is the fact that you need skill and teamwork to win a game. Here its just a mass zerg. That is the korean way and should be not todays standard.

  • PuraimaruPuraimaru MelbournePosts: 74Member
    Originally posted by ZeGerman

    My biggest concern with gw2 is the number of raw skills.  Yes there are plenty, but I felt a little limited playing mesmer cause most of the skill point skills were completely unapealing.  I think they should keep all the skills they have and reintroduce skill captures for highest level players.  These skills wouldnt be better than other skills just different and provide even more variety. 

    I know people worry that with more skills the likely hood of imbalance is hgih but that is only true for people with limited imaginations, for a while in GW1 people smite monk teams were huge and everyone screamed nerf, until people started running mesmer elemental dot teams that just destroyed them.

    Agreed! I feel as though a lot of the utility skills are a waste, even though Anet says every skill has a use, I found that hard to believe, and also introducing that 'tier' system was horrible, but people were complaining that there was no progression. But yeah, I feel as though skills is an area they still need to 'refine' otherwise the voices available for chars, the voice acting and the personal story.

  • illyanaillyana quezon cityPosts: 614Member Uncommon

    i love the original GW to death! played 4 months after launch, got 5 accounts, 1 with 50/50 HoM points, others got 30/50, but im ready to move on to GW2! 

    it's still got the beautiful aethetics that i love about GW1: breathtaking sceneries, beautiful player characters, fancy armor and of course the dancing!

    if there will be updates for GW1, i will definitely log back in and play. it wont ever be uninstalled from my PC. of course i wont miss any of the holiday events and the infamous April Fools jokes.

    but i'm mainly a PvEr, i only dabble in JQ/FA/AB for Pvp. the transition from GW1 to GW2 is kinder for a PvEr than to the hardcore GW1 PvPer. The PVp in GW1 is so excellently designed and highly competitive that veteran PVPer will find GW2 PVP somewhat lacking, in spite of all the additions. 

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    Have fun storming the castle! - Miracle Max

  • SamhaelSamhael Huntsville, ALPosts: 700Member Uncommon

    I have found GW1 superior in most ways to GW2.  I wish I hadn't wasted my money on the pre-purchase. I'll be giving it away when it arrives.

  • gaeanprayergaeanprayer Somewhere Out There, PAPosts: 2,320Member Uncommon

    Loved GW1, loving GW2. There's so much about GW2 that's just a better version of its predecessor. The death penalty is still painful but far more tolerable, the combat is more interactive, there's more than 20 levels that take you like an hour to cap out on, and there's progression in my skills that doesn't require hunting specific mobs (I hated that). I actually think I'll still go back and play GW1 on occasion, even when GW2 launches, but 2 is definitely the superior game for me.

    "Forums aren't for intelligent discussion; they're for blow-hards with unwavering opinions."

  • dontadowdontadow Detroit, MIPosts: 1,044Member Uncommon
    I hope they ey develop more gw 1. style adventures similar to personal stories but not tied to personal stories. I loved the emmence challenge of those types of quests
  • Zeus.CMZeus.CM ZagrebPosts: 1,788Member
    Originally posted by Samhael

    I have found GW1 superior in most ways to GW2.  I wish I hadn't wasted my money on the pre-purchase. I'll be giving it away when it arrives.

    care to elaborate?

  • HalandirHalandir nnPosts: 758Member Uncommon

    Absolutely loved and still love Guild Wars. GW2 is more "I like it, but..."

    So far GW2 seriously lack PvP formats but then: I am only interested in structured. The WvWvW may be a quick fix instead of random arena in GW, but it is not something I plan to spend much time in.

    I will probably play mostly PvE in GW2 and if structured does not introduce new meta's I will get my PvP fix in Guild Wars.

     

    We dont need casuals in our games!!! Errm... Well we DO need casuals to fund and populate our games - But the games should be all about "hardcore" because: We dont need casuals in our games!!!
    (repeat ad infinitum)

  • ThorbrandThorbrand West Palm Beach, FLPosts: 1,198Member
    Originally posted by makii

    super hype for a game that is boring. I loved GW1 for the pve and pvp. PvP in GW2 is so boring and not innovativ at all. I dont know much about the PvE aspect yet, since i didnt make that far., but to be honest, it didnt hook me like GW1.

    What i miss in GW2 is the fact that you need skill and teamwork to win a game. Here its just a mass zerg. That is the korean way and should be not todays standard.

    Samething I see in the game. The WvW is no DAoC or Shadowbane. Just a zergfest with no tactics. As far as a MMO goes it falls short compared to TSW whose PvP is just as good in a better enviroment.

  • VagabondLifeVagabondLife Grand Junction, COPosts: 91Member
    Originally posted by Thorbrand
    Originally posted by makii

    super hype for a game that is boring. I loved GW1 for the pve and pvp. PvP in GW2 is so boring and not innovativ at all. I dont know much about the PvE aspect yet, since i didnt make that far., but to be honest, it didnt hook me like GW1.

    What i miss in GW2 is the fact that you need skill and teamwork to win a game. Here its just a mass zerg. That is the korean way and should be not todays standard.

    Samething I see in the game. The WvW is no DAoC or Shadowbane. Just a zergfest with no tactics. As far as a MMO goes it falls short compared to TSW whose PvP is just as good in a better enviroment.

    Go away troll......sigh.....I sure will be glad when friday comes and you go play TSW......might keep you busy for a bit and not bashing GW2.

  • KanethKaneth Posts: 1,930Member Uncommon

    Well, my brutally honest opinion when it comes to "pleasing Vets" is, try not to. When you try to please everyone, you wind up pleasing no one. GW2 is actually a very different game than GW1, and the target audience is just as different. I remember reading interviews when GW1 was in development, and it seemed pretty clear that ANet was looking at D2 fans as a potential source of players. ANet admittedly did not intend to make a MMO with GW1, as they have referred to it as a CORPG, and considering that the founders were ex-Blizzard devs, they had an idea of the type of gamer they wanted to attract.

    GW2 is also aiming for a specific type of gamer, seemingly. ANet is taking painstaking efforts to remove griefing from PvE, they are adding in two elements of pvp, a more esport style, and a DAoC style. They are also looking at disenfranchied gamers who have been disappointed in the mmo offerings of the past 5-6 years now. On top of all of that, they are making a B2P game, which also means that they are less reliant on carrot-on-a-stick type content, and can offer up something that doesn't need to be quite as addictive as your typical P2P MMO.

    I wouldn't be surprised if many GW1 vets didn't like GW2, because the game wasn't made especially for them. It's seemingly made for a different audience. Attempting to grow your fan base is never a bad thing.

  • Mariner-80Mariner-80 Winchester, VAPosts: 347Member

    This GW1 vet is looking forward to playing GW2, but the feature (from GW1) that I'd most like to see in GW2 -- the heroes -- has now been discarded by ArenaNet.

    Whether GW2 is still as flexible for all sorts of playing styles (from solo, to small group [2 to 3 players] to full player groups) as GW1 was in its day remains to be seen, but I doubt GW2 will be anywhere near as good as GW1 was in that one, particular respect.

  • maplestonemaplestone Ottawa, ONPosts: 3,099Member
    Originally posted by Kaneth

    GW2 is actually a very different game than GW1, and the target audience is just as different.

    Then why call it Guild Wars 2?  Using a name of the format "$franchise $edition" strongly implies that you appealing to the same core audience and offering the next iteration of the same experience.

  • AmjocoAmjoco Layton, UTPosts: 4,783Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by BadSpock

    I could never get into GW1, I tried a couple of times but the CO-RPG aspects just were too foreign to me to really feel like I was playing a MMO.

    I thought the controls were clunky and the dependance on henchman and such was offputting.

    I love GW2. It really feels like a MMO, more so than any MMO I've played since... early WoW? UO?

    The biggest I think most important game-changer Anet has done with GW2 is removing the competitive feeling to PvE where you view other players as an annoyance or direct competitor against YOUR progress.

    By making everything open, everything cooperative, everything group/party friendly (w/o actualy having to group up) is a real game changer, IMO.

    I feel like I can log in and actually play WITH other people, doesn't matter what class or level they are, doesn't matter what quest chain they are on, doesn't even matter what server they are on!

    PvE done right - and I've always been PvE > PvP.

    Good post BS, I feel the exact same way. GW1 was very hard for me to get into but GW2 is the complete opposite.

    Death is nothing to us, since when we are, Death has not come, and when death has come, we are not.

  • AnirethAnireth Posts: 600Member Uncommon

    Guild Wars was absolutely horrible in that particular respect until they introduced heroes. And heroes were only needed because of the enforced class distribution like in most MMOs (take a tank, a healer, damage dealers etc.) and the uselessness of the henchman.

    It's nice to have that option, that i agree with, but Guild Wars 2 doesn't appear to need this, as there are not so many strict rules. Classes don't matter that much, you only need to atually partipcate. And if you don't, at least for dynamic events, the enemies are weaker.

    Dungeons are 5 man instances, so you do not need as many people, either, making it easier to get a group together, compared to the 8 to 12 in the original game.

    I'll wait to the day's end when the moon is high
    And then I'll rise with the tide with a lust for life, I'll
    Amass an army, and we'll harness a horde
    And then we'll limp across the land until we stand at the shore

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