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I was SUPER excited until....

PaRoXiTiCPaRoXiTiC Denison, TXPosts: 576Member Uncommon

I got on here and saw that the combat is not twitch based, FPS style right and left mouse click.

You guys making this game just royally f'ed up. I would never buy this game without the FPS style combat. You are screwing up, please change it NOW!

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Comments

  • EntinerintEntinerint brooklyn, NYPosts: 843Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by PaRoXiTiC

    I got on here and saw that the combat is not twitch based, FPS style right and left mouse click.

    You guys making this game just royally f'ed up. I would never buy this game without the FPS style combat. You are screwing up, please change it NOW!

    Could not agree more.  They could keep everything else the way it is, but this is a deal-breaker.

  • AcidonAcidon Salem, ORPosts: 797Member

    I don't have a problem with them going with the more standard MMO fare.  All of the lore is there.  I think it will be a fun romp being a MMORPG.

    I think I'm going to install Morrowind again.. Liked that more than Oblivion, personally.  Enjoyed modding more with it as well.

    I know, going off-topic.

    Playing: H1Z1, The Crew, Defiance, APB:Reloaded
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  • ZylaxxZylaxx Erlanger, KYPosts: 2,574Member
    Originally posted by Entinerint
    Originally posted by PaRoXiTiC

    I got on here and saw that the combat is not twitch based, FPS style right and left mouse click.

    You guys making this game just royally f'ed up. I would never buy this game without the FPS style combat. You are screwing up, please change it NOW!

    Could not agree more.  They could keep everything else the way it is, but this is a deal-breaker.

    I disagree, everyone knows that TES combat is the worst element of their games.  I love how they are doing the 2 weapon skills, 3 class skills and 1 elite skill in a hotbar based GW2'ish style actiony style combat. 

    Everything you need to know about Elder Scrolls Online

    Playing: GW2
    Waiting on: TESO
    Next Flop: Planetside 2
    Best MMO of all time: Asheron's Call - The first company to recreate AC will be the next greatest MMO.

    image

  • EntinerintEntinerint brooklyn, NYPosts: 843Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Zylaxx
    Originally posted by Entinerint
    Originally posted by PaRoXiTiC

    I got on here and saw that the combat is not twitch based, FPS style right and left mouse click.

    You guys making this game just royally f'ed up. I would never buy this game without the FPS style combat. You are screwing up, please change it NOW!

    Could not agree more.  They could keep everything else the way it is, but this is a deal-breaker.

    I disagree, everyone knows that TES combat is the worst element of their games.  I love how they are doing the 2 weapon skills, 3 class skills and 1 elite skill in a hotbar based GW2'ish style actiony style combat. 

    It may be the worst element of those games (and they said that about Oblivion, not Skyrim), but it is miles better than uninvolved typical MMO hotbar crap.  There is no player skill or involvement.  It is lazy and boring.

    Originally posted by Acidon

    I don't have a problem with them going with the more standard MMO fare.  All of the lore is there.  I think it will be a fun romp being a MMORPG.

    I think I'm going to install Morrowind again.. Liked that more than Oblivion, personally.  Enjoyed modding more with it as well.

    I know, going off-topic.

    Morrowind is definitely my favorite as well, but Skyrim's combat was fantastic.  Oblivion had its charms but it was, in my opinion, the weakest of the previous three.

  • ZylaxxZylaxx Erlanger, KYPosts: 2,574Member
    Originally posted by Entinerint
    Originally posted by Zylaxx
    Originally posted by Entinerint
    Originally posted by PaRoXiTiC

    I got on here and saw that the combat is not twitch based, FPS style right and left mouse click.

    You guys making this game just royally f'ed up. I would never buy this game without the FPS style combat. You are screwing up, please change it NOW!

    Could not agree more.  They could keep everything else the way it is, but this is a deal-breaker.

    I disagree, everyone knows that TES combat is the worst element of their games.  I love how they are doing the 2 weapon skills, 3 class skills and 1 elite skill in a hotbar based GW2'ish style actiony style combat. 

    It may be the worst element of those games (and they said that about Oblivion, not Skyrim), but it is miles better than uninvolved typical MMO hotbar crap.  There is no player skill or involvement.  It is lazy and boring.

    Originally posted by Acidon

    I don't have a problem with them going with the more standard MMO fare.  All of the lore is there.  I think it will be a fun romp being a MMORPG.

    I think I'm going to install Morrowind again.. Liked that more than Oblivion, personally.  Enjoyed modding more with it as well.

    I know, going off-topic.

    Morrowind is definitely my favorite as well, but Skyrim's combat was fantastic.  Oblivion had its charms but it was, in my opinion, the weakest of the previous three.

    Might be boring for you but its more realistic and it gives players the freedom to have multitudes of skill to use.  Now I can swing my 2H BroadSword and use things like Cleave, Mortal Strike, Pummel or what ever style of skill you want.  As opposed to left click, left click, left click and ohh hey heres another left click.....Now that is BORING!

    Everything you need to know about Elder Scrolls Online

    Playing: GW2
    Waiting on: TESO
    Next Flop: Planetside 2
    Best MMO of all time: Asheron's Call - The first company to recreate AC will be the next greatest MMO.

    image

  • KingGatorKingGator Tampa, FLPosts: 428Member Uncommon

    If you want to play an fps game then go play one, this is an mmorpg, which should play like one. I am starting to feel like this game is going to have some success.  It might be just because if it is good the months of irrational hate threads here are going to be worth the price of admission to borrow a  turn of phrase. :)

  • EntinerintEntinerint brooklyn, NYPosts: 843Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Zylaxx
    Originally posted by Entinerint
    Originally posted by Zylaxx
    Originally posted by Entinerint
    Originally posted by PaRoXiTiC

    I got on here and saw that the combat is not twitch based, FPS style right and left mouse click.

    You guys making this game just royally f'ed up. I would never buy this game without the FPS style combat. You are screwing up, please change it NOW!

    Could not agree more.  They could keep everything else the way it is, but this is a deal-breaker.

    I disagree, everyone knows that TES combat is the worst element of their games.  I love how they are doing the 2 weapon skills, 3 class skills and 1 elite skill in a hotbar based GW2'ish style actiony style combat. 

    It may be the worst element of those games (and they said that about Oblivion, not Skyrim), but it is miles better than uninvolved typical MMO hotbar crap.  There is no player skill or involvement.  It is lazy and boring.

    Originally posted by Acidon

    I don't have a problem with them going with the more standard MMO fare.  All of the lore is there.  I think it will be a fun romp being a MMORPG.

    I think I'm going to install Morrowind again.. Liked that more than Oblivion, personally.  Enjoyed modding more with it as well.

    I know, going off-topic.

    Morrowind is definitely my favorite as well, but Skyrim's combat was fantastic.  Oblivion had its charms but it was, in my opinion, the weakest of the previous three.

    Might be boring for you but its more realistic and it gives players the freedom to have multitudes of skill to use.  Now I can swing my 2H BroadSword and use things like Cleave, Mortal Strike, Pummel or what ever style of skill you want.  As opposed to left click, left click, left click and ohh hey heres another left click.....Now that is BORING!

    Realistic...?  That's a joke right?  Is that how you fight in reality?

    You do realize you can do all that stuff and still have twitch-based combat.  Ever played Darkfall?  Or Mortal Online?  You can bind abilities just like the trusty hotbar, but you have to actually manually use them, not wait for your character to decide to use them.

    A big difference is, in hotbar cooldown combat you aren't doing any of that.  Your character is doing it at your command.  It is the difference between puppeteering and actually being the character.  I don't know about you but when I play a role-playing game I like to play a role, not watch my character do as he's told like some kind of RTS hybrid. 

    Also, I was high warlord in WoW and if I ever had to press more than two buttons one-on-one before the other guy was dead there was something very wrong.  Macros.  Twitch combat takes away the ability to use combat macros almost completely. 

    Also, you have to AIM, which means you need to not only be thinking tactically, but you need the reflexes and the aiming to actually hit someone.  You need to lead with your spells, account for gravity with your arrows, and make sure you are in range for a melee attack.

    You also can use and have to account for your surroundings.

    All this makes twitch-based combat like in Skyrim, Darkfall or Mortal much more exciting, challenging, dynamic, involving and fun than anything the hybrid RTS system can do.

  • KingGatorKingGator Tampa, FLPosts: 428Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Entinerint
    Originally posted by Zylaxx
    Originally posted by Entinerint
    Originally posted by Zylaxx
    Originally posted by Entinerint
    Originally posted by PaRoXiTiC

    I got on here and saw that the combat is not twitch based, FPS style right and left mouse click.

    You guys making this game just royally f'ed up. I would never buy this game without the FPS style combat. You are screwing up, please change it NOW!

    Could not agree more.  They could keep everything else the way it is, but this is a deal-breaker.

    I disagree, everyone knows that TES combat is the worst element of their games.  I love how they are doing the 2 weapon skills, 3 class skills and 1 elite skill in a hotbar based GW2'ish style actiony style combat. 

    It may be the worst element of those games (and they said that about Oblivion, not Skyrim), but it is miles better than uninvolved typical MMO hotbar crap.  There is no player skill or involvement.  It is lazy and boring.

    Originally posted by Acidon

    I don't have a problem with them going with the more standard MMO fare.  All of the lore is there.  I think it will be a fun romp being a MMORPG.

    I think I'm going to install Morrowind again.. Liked that more than Oblivion, personally.  Enjoyed modding more with it as well.

    I know, going off-topic.

    Morrowind is definitely my favorite as well, but Skyrim's combat was fantastic.  Oblivion had its charms but it was, in my opinion, the weakest of the previous three.

    Might be boring for you but its more realistic and it gives players the freedom to have multitudes of skill to use.  Now I can swing my 2H BroadSword and use things like Cleave, Mortal Strike, Pummel or what ever style of skill you want.  As opposed to left click, left click, left click and ohh hey heres another left click.....Now that is BORING!

    Realistic...?  That's a joke right?  Is that how you fight in reality?

    You do realize you can do all that stuff and still have twitch-based combat.  Ever played Darkfall?  Or Mortal Online?  You can bind abilities just like the trusty hotbar, but you have to actually manually use them, not wait for your character to decide to use them.

    A big difference is, in hotbar cooldown combat you aren't doing any of that.  Your character is doing it at your command.  It is the difference between puppeteering and actually being the character.  I don't know about you but when I play a role-playing game I like to play a role, not watch my character do as he's told like some kind of RTS hybrid. 

    Also, I was high warlord in WoW and if I ever had to press more than two buttons one-on-one before the other guy was dead there was something very wrong.  Macros.  Twitch combat takes away the ability to use combat macros almost completely. 

    Also, you have to AIM, which means you need to not only be thinking tactically, but you need the reflexes and the aiming to actually hit someone.  You need to lead with your spells, account for gravity with your arrows, and make sure you are in range for a melee attack.

    You also can use and have to account for your surroundings.

    All this makes twitch-based combat like in Skyrim, Darkfall or Mortal much more exciting, challenging, dynamic, involving and fun than anything the hybrid RTS system can do.

    Circle strafing while frantically mashing 5 hot binds isn't what makes an mmorpg a good game. I would rather you have to think a little bit and account for cool downs. My twitch skills are ok, but what about people that aren't 21 years old and into console games that don't have great twitch skills? Why would a dev make them TOTALLY uncompetitive with you l33t kids? It doesn't make financial sense.  Really what mmo's are missing is content, not "new"(code name for FPS combat which is NOT new) mechanics or skill based/non trinity games(both code name for games with only utility dps classes/roles)

  • EntinerintEntinerint brooklyn, NYPosts: 843Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by KingGator
    Originally posted by Entinerint
    Originally posted by Zylaxx
    Originally posted by Entinerint
    Originally posted by Zylaxx
    Originally posted by Entinerint
    Originally posted by PaRoXiTiC

    I got on here and saw that the combat is not twitch based, FPS style right and left mouse click.

    You guys making this game just royally f'ed up. I would never buy this game without the FPS style combat. You are screwing up, please change it NOW!

    Could not agree more.  They could keep everything else the way it is, but this is a deal-breaker.

    I disagree, everyone knows that TES combat is the worst element of their games.  I love how they are doing the 2 weapon skills, 3 class skills and 1 elite skill in a hotbar based GW2'ish style actiony style combat. 

    It may be the worst element of those games (and they said that about Oblivion, not Skyrim), but it is miles better than uninvolved typical MMO hotbar crap.  There is no player skill or involvement.  It is lazy and boring.

    Originally posted by Acidon

    I don't have a problem with them going with the more standard MMO fare.  All of the lore is there.  I think it will be a fun romp being a MMORPG.

    I think I'm going to install Morrowind again.. Liked that more than Oblivion, personally.  Enjoyed modding more with it as well.

    I know, going off-topic.

    Morrowind is definitely my favorite as well, but Skyrim's combat was fantastic.  Oblivion had its charms but it was, in my opinion, the weakest of the previous three.

    Might be boring for you but its more realistic and it gives players the freedom to have multitudes of skill to use.  Now I can swing my 2H BroadSword and use things like Cleave, Mortal Strike, Pummel or what ever style of skill you want.  As opposed to left click, left click, left click and ohh hey heres another left click.....Now that is BORING!

    Realistic...?  That's a joke right?  Is that how you fight in reality?

    You do realize you can do all that stuff and still have twitch-based combat.  Ever played Darkfall?  Or Mortal Online?  You can bind abilities just like the trusty hotbar, but you have to actually manually use them, not wait for your character to decide to use them.

    A big difference is, in hotbar cooldown combat you aren't doing any of that.  Your character is doing it at your command.  It is the difference between puppeteering and actually being the character.  I don't know about you but when I play a role-playing game I like to play a role, not watch my character do as he's told like some kind of RTS hybrid. 

    Also, I was high warlord in WoW and if I ever had to press more than two buttons one-on-one before the other guy was dead there was something very wrong.  Macros.  Twitch combat takes away the ability to use combat macros almost completely. 

    Also, you have to AIM, which means you need to not only be thinking tactically, but you need the reflexes and the aiming to actually hit someone.  You need to lead with your spells, account for gravity with your arrows, and make sure you are in range for a melee attack.

    You also can use and have to account for your surroundings.

    All this makes twitch-based combat like in Skyrim, Darkfall or Mortal much more exciting, challenging, dynamic, involving and fun than anything the hybrid RTS system can do.

    Circle strafing while frantically mashing 5 hot binds isn't what makes an mmorpg a good game. I would rather you have to think a little bit and account for cool downs. My twitch skills are ok, but what about people that aren't 21 years old and into console games that don't have great twitch skills? Why would a dev make them TOTALLY uncompetitive with you l33t kids? It doesn't make financial sense.  Really what mmo's are missing is content, not "new"(code name for FPS combat which is NOT new) mechanics or skill based/non trinity games(both code name for games with only utility dps classes/roles)

    Red and yellow are contradicting arguments.  It is more likely that "having to think" as a requirement (which it isn't btw) is much less common than a gamer with good reflexes.  It would most likely put players on a more level playing field.

    Cool-down combat is all about memorization.  Once you have things memorized (cool-down timers, rotation, etc.), the game is the same every time.  Trust me, I've been there.  It gets old, rote and stale really fast.

    Twitch-combat is all about adaptation, because nothing is ever certain, so you have to constantly be on your toes for the changes in a battle, accounting for all possibilites.

    That is more exciting, more engaging and ultimately will make people want to play more, to become better at the game.

    Also, we're not talking about what MMOs are missing or what makes them good.  I could care less about any other MMORPG.  We're talking about the fact the The Elder Scrolls MMORPG is missing many elements (combat being the most egregious) that make the Elder Scrolls series unique and attractive compared to all the other poorly-designed, boring RPGs on the market.

    You would think they would take the staples of the franchise and do their best to translate them to the MMO format.  The lore is not something that most TES fans are nearly as interested in as the gameplay.  The lore is pretty standard fantasy fair, you can find it anywhere.  But no other RPG plays like TES.  That's why it is game of the year and sells more copies than Dragon Age, Mass Effect, The Witcher and any other RPG out there.

    The devs of this game are blind if they think the lore alone will carry over TES fans.  They took the easy way out, because twitch combat is harder to balance.  It doesn't look like TES, it doesn't feel like TES and it doesn't play like TES.  So why is it being labeled as TES?

    Why not just call it what it is: DAOC2?

  • WizardryWizardry Ontario, CanadaPosts: 8,453Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by PaRoXiTiC

    I got on here and saw that the combat is not twitch based, FPS style right and left mouse click.

    You guys making this game just royally f'ed up. I would never buy this game without the FPS style combat. You are screwing up, please change it NOW!

    I like more depth in my combat than simply left/right mouse buttons.Even that has not been done in RPG's,in UT99 for example it means a LOT because it is for primary and secondary fire.Many games also like to use the mouse for movement so again that makes things more messed up.

    FPS designs work for them and rpg's for them because they are not the same type of games.

    I have tried the FPS setup in two different rpg games and i found it so bad that i quit almost instantly.I do not like to feel a game is incredibly cumbersome to play.Example people don't like bad UI,well trying to incorporate FPS settings into a rpg does the same thing,it makes it into a bad UI.

    The latest try was in TERA,the only way to make it feel at all comfortable was to bind two attacks to the two mouse buttons.However that does nothing for the other myriad of spells/abilities you would have to make macros or keybinds for.

    If you still don't beleive me that it just is a terrible idea,i wil use an example of when i played FFXI.

    The combat was so versatile and in depth,you could have easily 2 full macro sets [20 macros] and easily add more.You would have macros for changing gear into attack mode/defensive mode/buffing mode ect ect.Now try to imagine you are trying to hold aim on an enemy all the while trying to constantly make game changes to meet the situation?It iseriously is IMPOSSIBLE.

    The ONLY way it works is if you have literally the simplest combat structure that takes no thinking,then ya you can just do what we FPS gamers call POINT n CLICK.I think THE GAME is far more important than worrying about FPS aiming.

    I get my point n click fix in fps games where the skill is more abotu weapon selection and the map environment,again something rpg's do not utilize at all.

     

     


    Samoan Diamond

  • EntinerintEntinerint brooklyn, NYPosts: 843Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Wizardry
    Originally posted by PaRoXiTiC

    I got on here and saw that the combat is not twitch based, FPS style right and left mouse click.

    You guys making this game just royally f'ed up. I would never buy this game without the FPS style combat. You are screwing up, please change it NOW!

    I like more depth in my combat than simply left/right mouse buttons.Even that has not been done in RPG's,in UT99 for example it means a LOT because it is for primary and secondary fire.Many games also like to use the mouse for movement so again that makes things more messed up.

    FPS designs work for them and rpg's for them because they are not the same type of games.

    I have tried the FPS setup in two different rpg games and i found it so bad that i quit almost instantly.I do not like to feel a game is incredibly cumbersome to play.Example people don't like bad UI,well trying to incorporate FPS settings into a rpg does the same thing,it makes it into a bad UI.

    The latest try was in TERA,the only way to make it feel at all comfortable was to bind two attacks to the two mouse buttons.However that does nothing for the other myriad of spells/abilities you would have to make macros or keybinds for.

    If you still don't beleive me that it just is a terrible idea,i wil use an example of when i played FFXI.

    The combat was so versatile and in depth,you could have easily 2 full macro sets [20 macros] and easily add more.You would have macros for changing gear into attack mode/defensive mode/buffing mode ect ect.Now try to imagine you are trying to hold aim on an enemy all the while trying to constantly make game changes to meet the situation?It iseriously is IMPOSSIBLE.

    The ONLY way it works is if you have literally the simplest combat structure that takes no thinking,then ya you can just do what we FPS gamers call POINT n CLICK.I think THE GAME is far more important than worrying about FPS aiming.

    I get my point n click fix in fps games where the skill is more abotu weapon selection and the map environment,again something rpg's do not utilize at all.

     

     

    Have you even played a TES game?  Those are basically fantasy FPSs.  If you don't like them, why even bother being interested in a TES MMO?

    I agree however, TERA was awful, so cumbersome because you still maneuvered like a traditional MMO, it was appalling.  You can't just bind attacks to the mouse buttons and expect it to work, there is a lot more that goes into it than that.

    Also, have you ever played Dark Messiah?  First-person fantasy combat with multi-player.  It was AMAZINGLY fun and very very deep.  You become much more involved than in any RTS-type RPGs.  They incorporated a lot of that into Skyrim and it was much better for it.

  • KingGatorKingGator Tampa, FLPosts: 428Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Entinerint
    Originally posted by Wizardry
    Originally posted by PaRoXiTiC

    I got on here and saw that the combat is not twitch based, FPS style right and left mouse click.

    You guys making this game just royally f'ed up. I would never buy this game without the FPS style combat. You are screwing up, please change it NOW!

    I like more depth in my combat than simply left/right mouse buttons.Even that has not been done in RPG's,in UT99 for example it means a LOT because it is for primary and secondary fire.Many games also like to use the mouse for movement so again that makes things more messed up.

    FPS designs work for them and rpg's for them because they are not the same type of games.

    I have tried the FPS setup in two different rpg games and i found it so bad that i quit almost instantly.I do not like to feel a game is incredibly cumbersome to play.Example people don't like bad UI,well trying to incorporate FPS settings into a rpg does the same thing,it makes it into a bad UI.

    The latest try was in TERA,the only way to make it feel at all comfortable was to bind two attacks to the two mouse buttons.However that does nothing for the other myriad of spells/abilities you would have to make macros or keybinds for.

    If you still don't beleive me that it just is a terrible idea,i wil use an example of when i played FFXI.

    The combat was so versatile and in depth,you could have easily 2 full macro sets [20 macros] and easily add more.You would have macros for changing gear into attack mode/defensive mode/buffing mode ect ect.Now try to imagine you are trying to hold aim on an enemy all the while trying to constantly make game changes to meet the situation?It iseriously is IMPOSSIBLE.

    The ONLY way it works is if you have literally the simplest combat structure that takes no thinking,then ya you can just do what we FPS gamers call POINT n CLICK.I think THE GAME is far more important than worrying about FPS aiming.

    I get my point n click fix in fps games where the skill is more abotu weapon selection and the map environment,again something rpg's do not utilize at all.

     

     

    Have you even played a TES game?  Those are basically fantasy FPSs.  If you don't like them, why even bother being interested in a TES MMO?

    I agree however, TERA was awful, so cumbersome because you still maneuvered like a traditional MMO, it was appalling.  You can't just bind attacks to the mouse buttons and expect it to work, there is a lot more that goes into it than that.

    They've said repeatedly that they're not trying to make morrowind/skyrim online.  They're using the lore to make an mmorpg. Perhaps you just need to go fnd an mmofps to play? Planetside 2 seems like a good offering in that category. Circle strafing and alts binds aren't all I need for an mmorpg.

  • CromicaCromica West Fargo, NDPosts: 657Member Uncommon

    I have a small bit of hope that this could be an alright game only because I love TES world.

  • KingGatorKingGator Tampa, FLPosts: 428Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Entinerint
    Originally posted by KingGator
    Originally posted by Entinerint
    Originally posted by Zylaxx
    Originally posted by Entinerint
    Originally posted by Zylaxx
    Originally posted by Entinerint
    Originally posted by PaRoXiTiC

    I got on here and saw that the combat is not twitch based, FPS style right and left mouse click.

    You guys making this game just royally f'ed up. I would never buy this game without the FPS style combat. You are screwing up, please change it NOW!

    Could not agree more.  They could keep everything else the way it is, but this is a deal-breaker.

    I disagree, everyone knows that TES combat is the worst element of their games.  I love how they are doing the 2 weapon skills, 3 class skills and 1 elite skill in a hotbar based GW2'ish style actiony style combat. 

    It may be the worst element of those games (and they said that about Oblivion, not Skyrim), but it is miles better than uninvolved typical MMO hotbar crap.  There is no player skill or involvement.  It is lazy and boring.

    Originally posted by Acidon

    I don't have a problem with them going with the more standard MMO fare.  All of the lore is there.  I think it will be a fun romp being a MMORPG.

    I think I'm going to install Morrowind again.. Liked that more than Oblivion, personally.  Enjoyed modding more with it as well.

    I know, going off-topic.

    Morrowind is definitely my favorite as well, but Skyrim's combat was fantastic.  Oblivion had its charms but it was, in my opinion, the weakest of the previous three.

    Might be boring for you but its more realistic and it gives players the freedom to have multitudes of skill to use.  Now I can swing my 2H BroadSword and use things like Cleave, Mortal Strike, Pummel or what ever style of skill you want.  As opposed to left click, left click, left click and ohh hey heres another left click.....Now that is BORING!

    Realistic...?  That's a joke right?  Is that how you fight in reality?

    You do realize you can do all that stuff and still have twitch-based combat.  Ever played Darkfall?  Or Mortal Online?  You can bind abilities just like the trusty hotbar, but you have to actually manually use them, not wait for your character to decide to use them.

    A big difference is, in hotbar cooldown combat you aren't doing any of that.  Your character is doing it at your command.  It is the difference between puppeteering and actually being the character.  I don't know about you but when I play a role-playing game I like to play a role, not watch my character do as he's told like some kind of RTS hybrid. 

    Also, I was high warlord in WoW and if I ever had to press more than two buttons one-on-one before the other guy was dead there was something very wrong.  Macros.  Twitch combat takes away the ability to use combat macros almost completely. 

    Also, you have to AIM, which means you need to not only be thinking tactically, but you need the reflexes and the aiming to actually hit someone.  You need to lead with your spells, account for gravity with your arrows, and make sure you are in range for a melee attack.

    You also can use and have to account for your surroundings.

    All this makes twitch-based combat like in Skyrim, Darkfall or Mortal much more exciting, challenging, dynamic, involving and fun than anything the hybrid RTS system can do.

    Circle strafing while frantically mashing 5 hot binds isn't what makes an mmorpg a good game. I would rather you have to think a little bit and account for cool downs. My twitch skills are ok, but what about people that aren't 21 years old and into console games that don't have great twitch skills? Why would a dev make them TOTALLY uncompetitive with you l33t kids? It doesn't make financial sense.  Really what mmo's are missing is content, not "new"(code name for FPS combat which is NOT new) mechanics or skill based/non trinity games(both code name for games with only utility dps classes/roles)

    Red and yellow are contradicting arguments. 

    Why not just call it what it is: DAOC2?

    No they're not.

    And they've pretty much said it without saying it. I am becoming more and more interested in this game due to that fact.

  • Lord.BachusLord.Bachus Den HelderPosts: 9,065Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Zylaxx
    Originally posted by Entinerint
    Originally posted by PaRoXiTiC

    I got on here and saw that the combat is not twitch based, FPS style right and left mouse click.

    You guys making this game just royally f'ed up. I would never buy this game without the FPS style combat. You are screwing up, please change it NOW!

    Could not agree more.  They could keep everything else the way it is, but this is a deal-breaker.

    I disagree, everyone knows that TES combat is the worst element of their games.  I love how they are doing the 2 weapon skills, 3 class skills and 1 elite skill in a hotbar based GW2'ish style actiony style combat. 

    thats only 6 skills, compared the the endless possibilities of the GW2 system, thats near to nothing. In guildwars 2 every class has atleast 20 skills available at any time... 

     

    Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)

  • KingGatorKingGator Tampa, FLPosts: 428Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Cromica

    I have a small bit of hope that this could be an alright game only because I love TES world.

    Most of what I've read has been interesting, but they've released nothing substantial RE this game so we'll have to wait and see.

  • KingGatorKingGator Tampa, FLPosts: 428Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Lord.Bachus
    Originally posted by Zylaxx
    Originally posted by Entinerint
    Originally posted by PaRoXiTiC

    I got on here and saw that the combat is not twitch based, FPS style right and left mouse click.

    You guys making this game just royally f'ed up. I would never buy this game without the FPS style combat. You are screwing up, please change it NOW!

    Could not agree more.  They could keep everything else the way it is, but this is a deal-breaker.

    I disagree, everyone knows that TES combat is the worst element of their games.  I love how they are doing the 2 weapon skills, 3 class skills and 1 elite skill in a hotbar based GW2'ish style actiony style combat. 

    thats only 6 skills, compared the the endless possibilities of the GW2 system, thats near to nothing. In guildwars 2 every class has atleast 20 skills available at any time... 

     

     

    You'll have to explain that, from what I've seen that simply isn't the case, unless you're counting weapon swapping as well since that changes your set up, but they'll probably have some sort of dynamic for that to occur in this game as well.

  • BeermanglerBeermangler Cluj NapocaPosts: 397Member Uncommon

    So much hate, so little gameplay...

    Better to be crazy, provided you know what sane is...

  • CromicaCromica West Fargo, NDPosts: 657Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Lord.Bachus
    Originally posted by Zylaxx
    Originally posted by Entinerint
    Originally posted by PaRoXiTiC

    I got on here and saw that the combat is not twitch based, FPS style right and left mouse click.

    You guys making this game just royally f'ed up. I would never buy this game without the FPS style combat. You are screwing up, please change it NOW!

    Could not agree more.  They could keep everything else the way it is, but this is a deal-breaker.

    I disagree, everyone knows that TES combat is the worst element of their games.  I love how they are doing the 2 weapon skills, 3 class skills and 1 elite skill in a hotbar based GW2'ish style actiony style combat. 

    thats only 6 skills, compared the the endless possibilities of the GW2 system, thats near to nothing. In guildwars 2 every class has atleast 20 skills available at any time... 

     

    Only the elementalist has that amount of skills with the different attunments every other class only has your 2 weapon sets at a time, and they can't be changed in combat.

  • EntinerintEntinerint brooklyn, NYPosts: 843Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by KingGator
    Originally posted by Entinerint
    Originally posted by Wizardry
    Originally posted by PaRoXiTiC

    I got on here and saw that the combat is not twitch based, FPS style right and left mouse click.

    You guys making this game just royally f'ed up. I would never buy this game without the FPS style combat. You are screwing up, please change it NOW!

    I like more depth in my combat than simply left/right mouse buttons.Even that has not been done in RPG's,in UT99 for example it means a LOT because it is for primary and secondary fire.Many games also like to use the mouse for movement so again that makes things more messed up.

    FPS designs work for them and rpg's for them because they are not the same type of games.

    I have tried the FPS setup in two different rpg games and i found it so bad that i quit almost instantly.I do not like to feel a game is incredibly cumbersome to play.Example people don't like bad UI,well trying to incorporate FPS settings into a rpg does the same thing,it makes it into a bad UI.

    The latest try was in TERA,the only way to make it feel at all comfortable was to bind two attacks to the two mouse buttons.However that does nothing for the other myriad of spells/abilities you would have to make macros or keybinds for.

    If you still don't beleive me that it just is a terrible idea,i wil use an example of when i played FFXI.

    The combat was so versatile and in depth,you could have easily 2 full macro sets [20 macros] and easily add more.You would have macros for changing gear into attack mode/defensive mode/buffing mode ect ect.Now try to imagine you are trying to hold aim on an enemy all the while trying to constantly make game changes to meet the situation?It iseriously is IMPOSSIBLE.

    The ONLY way it works is if you have literally the simplest combat structure that takes no thinking,then ya you can just do what we FPS gamers call POINT n CLICK.I think THE GAME is far more important than worrying about FPS aiming.

    I get my point n click fix in fps games where the skill is more abotu weapon selection and the map environment,again something rpg's do not utilize at all.

     

     

    Have you even played a TES game?  Those are basically fantasy FPSs.  If you don't like them, why even bother being interested in a TES MMO?

    I agree however, TERA was awful, so cumbersome because you still maneuvered like a traditional MMO, it was appalling.  You can't just bind attacks to the mouse buttons and expect it to work, there is a lot more that goes into it than that.

    They've said repeatedly that they're not trying to make morrowind/skyrim online.  They're using the lore to make an mmorpg. Perhaps you just need to go fnd an mmofps to play? Planetside 2 seems like a good offering in that category. Circle strafing and alts binds aren't all I need for an mmorpg.

    You're right, they have said that, which makes them morons.

    It makes sense in terms of LOTRO or DDO or STO or other big-IP-based MMOs because they are not based on existing game franchises.  TES is already a game and people associate gameplay mechanics with that brand.

    If you expect me to believe that this game can be successful on the backs of the dwindled DAOC community and the standard MMO nomads who'll be gone after 3 months anyway, then you have got your head in the sand my friend.  The TES audience is in the tens of millions.  Not all are PC players, but most if not all of them will expect the game to play like TES. 

    I haven't seen you on this board until this thread so I'll give you the benefit of the doubt, but go ahead and read through the threads here.  It is overwhelmingly negative.  Even the press gave a solid "MEH" to what they saw at E3. 

    Why did they even bother making a TES MMO if they can't or won't make a TES MMO?  It makes no sense aside from having a good ole cash grab, that is already backfiring on them, with their biggest IP.

    If they want DAOC fans, make DAOC 2.  Oh wait, it was never popular enough to warrant a sequel.  Hmmmmm.  I wonder if the second go-around will have a different effect!  You know what they say about the definition of insanity.  Doing the same thing repeatedly and expecting different results.

    Also, it isn't that it is a major change, either, that ticks me, and many many others off.  It is the fact that it is a step BACKWARDS that is the issue.  If they were pushing the mechanics forward then great, innovate away!

    But the hotbar cooldown system is an outmoded system.  It was invented simply to account for technological limitations which no longer exist.  It was there to simulate things that we no longer have to simulate, we can just do.

    And is Planetside 2 a fantasy MMORPG that takes place in the TES universe and plays like TES?  If so then I'll be all over it!  Oh wait...

    Originally posted by KingGator

    No they're not.

    You gonna offer any kind of rebuttal there or should I just assume I won that one?

  • ZylaxxZylaxx Erlanger, KYPosts: 2,574Member
    Originally posted by Wizardry
    Originally posted by PaRoXiTiC

    I got on here and saw that the combat is not twitch based, FPS style right and left mouse click.

    You guys making this game just royally f'ed up. I would never buy this game without the FPS style combat. You are screwing up, please change it NOW!

    I like more depth in my combat than simply left/right mouse buttons.Even that has not been done in RPG's,in UT99 for example it means a LOT because it is for primary and secondary fire.Many games also like to use the mouse for movement so again that makes things more messed up.

    FPS designs work for them and rpg's for them because they are not the same type of games.

    I have tried the FPS setup in two different rpg games and i found it so bad that i quit almost instantly.I do not like to feel a game is incredibly cumbersome to play.Example people don't like bad UI,well trying to incorporate FPS settings into a rpg does the same thing,it makes it into a bad UI.

    The latest try was in TERA,the only way to make it feel at all comfortable was to bind two attacks to the two mouse buttons.However that does nothing for the other myriad of spells/abilities you would have to make macros or keybinds for.

    If you still don't beleive me that it just is a terrible idea,i wil use an example of when i played FFXI.

    The combat was so versatile and in depth,you could have easily 2 full macro sets [20 macros] and easily add more.You would have macros for changing gear into attack mode/defensive mode/buffing mode ect ect.Now try to imagine you are trying to hold aim on an enemy all the while trying to constantly make game changes to meet the situation?It iseriously is IMPOSSIBLE.

    The ONLY way it works is if you have literally the simplest combat structure that takes no thinking,then ya you can just do what we FPS gamers call POINT n CLICK.I think THE GAME is far more important than worrying about FPS aiming.

    I get my point n click fix in fps games where the skill is more abotu weapon selection and the map environment,again something rpg's do not utilize at all.

     

     

    Amen.  Left and Right mouse clicking is silly and unrealistic.  I much prefer the slower paced tactical feel of hot bar combat.

    Everything you need to know about Elder Scrolls Online

    Playing: GW2
    Waiting on: TESO
    Next Flop: Planetside 2
    Best MMO of all time: Asheron's Call - The first company to recreate AC will be the next greatest MMO.

    image

  • NildenNilden null, NBPosts: 1,284Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Beermangler

    So much hate, so little gameplay...

    I have this miracle power where I am able to read a 20 page game informer preview and gather that the game is elder scrolls in IP only and will be a pile of crap. I do not need to step in it to figure it out.

    How to post links.

    "classification of games into MMOs is not by rational reasoning" - nariusseldon
    Love Minecraft. And check out my Youtube channel OhCanadaGamer

  • EntinerintEntinerint brooklyn, NYPosts: 843Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Zylaxx
    Originally posted by Wizardry
    Originally posted by PaRoXiTiC

    I got on here and saw that the combat is not twitch based, FPS style right and left mouse click.

    You guys making this game just royally f'ed up. I would never buy this game without the FPS style combat. You are screwing up, please change it NOW!

    I like more depth in my combat than simply left/right mouse buttons.Even that has not been done in RPG's,in UT99 for example it means a LOT because it is for primary and secondary fire.Many games also like to use the mouse for movement so again that makes things more messed up.

    FPS designs work for them and rpg's for them because they are not the same type of games.

    I have tried the FPS setup in two different rpg games and i found it so bad that i quit almost instantly.I do not like to feel a game is incredibly cumbersome to play.Example people don't like bad UI,well trying to incorporate FPS settings into a rpg does the same thing,it makes it into a bad UI.

    The latest try was in TERA,the only way to make it feel at all comfortable was to bind two attacks to the two mouse buttons.However that does nothing for the other myriad of spells/abilities you would have to make macros or keybinds for.

    If you still don't beleive me that it just is a terrible idea,i wil use an example of when i played FFXI.

    The combat was so versatile and in depth,you could have easily 2 full macro sets [20 macros] and easily add more.You would have macros for changing gear into attack mode/defensive mode/buffing mode ect ect.Now try to imagine you are trying to hold aim on an enemy all the while trying to constantly make game changes to meet the situation?It iseriously is IMPOSSIBLE.

    The ONLY way it works is if you have literally the simplest combat structure that takes no thinking,then ya you can just do what we FPS gamers call POINT n CLICK.I think THE GAME is far more important than worrying about FPS aiming.

    I get my point n click fix in fps games where the skill is more abotu weapon selection and the map environment,again something rpg's do not utilize at all.

     

     

    Amen.  Left and Right mouse clicking is silly and unrealistic.  I much prefer the slower paced tactical feel of hot bar combat.

    I guess you've never played Mount and Blade or Mortal Online.  Slow-paced and tactical twitch-based combat.  With hotbars (for the latter).

  • ZylaxxZylaxx Erlanger, KYPosts: 2,574Member
    Originally posted by Entinerint
    Originally posted by KingGator
    Originally posted by Entinerint
    Originally posted by Wizardry
    Originally posted by PaRoXiTiC

    I got on here and saw that the combat is not twitch based, FPS style right and left mouse click.

    You guys making this game just royally f'ed up. I would never buy this game without the FPS style combat. You are screwing up, please change it NOW!

    I like more depth in my combat than simply left/right mouse buttons.Even that has not been done in RPG's,in UT99 for example it means a LOT because it is for primary and secondary fire.Many games also like to use the mouse for movement so again that makes things more messed up.

    FPS designs work for them and rpg's for them because they are not the same type of games.

    I have tried the FPS setup in two different rpg games and i found it so bad that i quit almost instantly.I do not like to feel a game is incredibly cumbersome to play.Example people don't like bad UI,well trying to incorporate FPS settings into a rpg does the same thing,it makes it into a bad UI.

    The latest try was in TERA,the only way to make it feel at all comfortable was to bind two attacks to the two mouse buttons.However that does nothing for the other myriad of spells/abilities you would have to make macros or keybinds for.

    If you still don't beleive me that it just is a terrible idea,i wil use an example of when i played FFXI.

    The combat was so versatile and in depth,you could have easily 2 full macro sets [20 macros] and easily add more.You would have macros for changing gear into attack mode/defensive mode/buffing mode ect ect.Now try to imagine you are trying to hold aim on an enemy all the while trying to constantly make game changes to meet the situation?It iseriously is IMPOSSIBLE.

    The ONLY way it works is if you have literally the simplest combat structure that takes no thinking,then ya you can just do what we FPS gamers call POINT n CLICK.I think THE GAME is far more important than worrying about FPS aiming.

    I get my point n click fix in fps games where the skill is more abotu weapon selection and the map environment,again something rpg's do not utilize at all.

     

     

    Have you even played a TES game?  Those are basically fantasy FPSs.  If you don't like them, why even bother being interested in a TES MMO?

    I agree however, TERA was awful, so cumbersome because you still maneuvered like a traditional MMO, it was appalling.  You can't just bind attacks to the mouse buttons and expect it to work, there is a lot more that goes into it than that.

    They've said repeatedly that they're not trying to make morrowind/skyrim online.  They're using the lore to make an mmorpg. Perhaps you just need to go fnd an mmofps to play? Planetside 2 seems like a good offering in that category. Circle strafing and alts binds aren't all I need for an mmorpg.

    You're right, they have said that, which makes them morons.

    It makes sense in terms of LOTRO or DDO or STO or other big-IP-based MMOs because they are not based on existing game franchises.  TES is already a game and people associate gameplay mechanics with that brand.

    If you expect me to believe that this game can be successful on the backs of the dwindled DAOC community and the standard MMO nomads who'll be gone after 3 months anyway, then you have got your head in the sand my friend.  The TES audience is in the tens of millions.  Not all are PC players, but most if not all of them will expect the game to play like TES. 

    I haven't seen you on this board until this thread so I'll give you the benefit of the doubt, but go ahead and read through the threads here.  It is overwhelmingly negative.  Even the press gave a solid "MEH" to what they saw at E3. 

    Why did they even bother making a TES MMO if they can't or won't make a TES MMO?  It makes no sense aside from having a good ole cash grab, that is already backfiring on them, with their biggest IP.

    If they want DAOC fans, make DAOC 2.  Oh wait, it was never popular enough to warrant a sequel.  Hmmmmm.  I wonder if the second go-around will have a different effect!  You know what they say about the definition of insanity.  Doing the same thing repeatedly and expecting different results.

    Also, it isn't that it is a major change, either, that ticks me, and many many others off.  It is the fact that it is a step BACKWARDS that is the issue.  If they were pushing the mechanics forward then great, innovate away!

    But the hotbar cooldown system is an outmoded system.  It was invented simply to account for technological limitations which no longer exist.  It was there to simulate things that we no longer have to simulate, we can just do.

    And is Planetside 2 a fantasy MMORPG that takes place in the TES universe and plays like TES?  If so then I'll be all over it!  Oh wait...

    Originally posted by KingGator

    No they're not.

    You gonna offer any kind of rebuttal there or should I just assume I won that one?

    If I wanted to play a FPS id play a FPS but seeing as we're talking about MMO's I along with millions of fans prefer the hotbar based MMO combat as opposed to some twitchy unrealistic system.  Lets see we have WoW which has 10 million subscriber versus DF and MO which have a combined subscription of about 24 people.  Nahh...I like the rest of the MMO community prefer the hotbar based systems because they JUST WORK.  That doesnt mean innovations in the hotbar style combat cant be iterated upon which is exactly what GW2 and TESO are looking to do.

    Everything you need to know about Elder Scrolls Online

    Playing: GW2
    Waiting on: TESO
    Next Flop: Planetside 2
    Best MMO of all time: Asheron's Call - The first company to recreate AC will be the next greatest MMO.

    image

  • warmaster670warmaster670 Simcoe, ONPosts: 1,384Member
    Originally posted by Entinerint
    Originally posted by Zylaxx
    Originally posted by Entinerint
    Originally posted by PaRoXiTiC

    I got on here and saw that the combat is not twitch based, FPS style right and left mouse click.

    You guys making this game just royally f'ed up. I would never buy this game without the FPS style combat. You are screwing up, please change it NOW!

    Could not agree more.  They could keep everything else the way it is, but this is a deal-breaker.

    I disagree, everyone knows that TES combat is the worst element of their games.  I love how they are doing the 2 weapon skills, 3 class skills and 1 elite skill in a hotbar based GW2'ish style actiony style combat. 

    It may be the worst element of those games (and they said that about Oblivion, not Skyrim), but it is miles better than uninvolved typical MMO hotbar crap.  There is no player skill or involvement.  It is lazy and boring.

    Originally posted by Acidon

    I don't have a problem with them going with the more standard MMO fare.  All of the lore is there.  I think it will be a fun romp being a MMORPG.

    I think I'm going to install Morrowind again.. Liked that more than Oblivion, personally.  Enjoyed modding more with it as well.

    I know, going off-topic.

    Morrowind is definitely my favorite as well, but Skyrim's combat was fantastic.  Oblivion had its charms but it was, in my opinion, the weakest of the previous three.

    Theres no player skill or involvement in morrowinds combat, yet you seem to like that game.

     

    ES combaty is for the most part crap, why would they immitate it for n mmo?

    Apparently stating the truth in my sig is "trolling"
    Sig typo fixed thanks to an observant stragen001.

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