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Is the sub fee + item shop keeping anyone away?

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  • XzenXzen Member UncommonPosts: 2,607

    TSW sub fee + cash shop is keeping me away. It's the only reason I'm not going to play it.

  • thekid1thekid1 Member UncommonPosts: 789

    Out of principle I will not play a game with a sub AND a cash shop.

     

  • udonudon Member UncommonPosts: 1,803

    People shouldn't be comparing TSW to GW2 because they have different payment models.  If you want to compare TSW to something compare it to other SUB games.

    Let's see.

    EQ2 - F2P with sub option plus cash shop

    LOTR/DDO - F2P with sub option plus cash shop

    Fallen Earth - F2P with sub option plus cash shop

    SWTOR - Sub only

    RIFT - Sub Only

    Tera - Sub Only (US/EU servers)

    WoW - Sub plus cash shop.

    So the only game on that list that TSW compares to pricing model wise is WoW.  Every other Sub game that has implemented a cash shop has either be as part of a F2P conversion or followed by a F2P converstion within a year.  

    What does that say for TSW's chances of still being Sub only in a year?  I wouldn't be surprised if they already have a F2P migration plan mapped out.

  • bcbullybcbully Member EpicPosts: 11,838
    Originally posted by udon
    Originally posted by bcbully 

    Theres several hundred articles of clothing  in CC and in game stores. Why would you look like anyone else?

    No their isn't.  Their are 10 or so items in a half dozen or so colors each for each slot at most.  Overall the choices are pretty limited although I will say their were more this last weekend than weekends past so it's at least better.

    A modern day setting MMO with the graphics style of TSW should have a huge number of clothing and personalization options. If they didn't want to do that they should have gone in a more stylized art direction.  As it stands the lack of customization stands out a lot to many people.

     

    Look at what you just typed. 10 or so different item styles (short sleeve. long sleeve, short button up, long button up , Polo striped, Polo plad, tee shirts, sleeveless tees, etc) with 6-8 maybe 10 different colors for each clothing slot (Face,bach,chest,legs,shoes,hands) 

     

    Just using the low end of your numbers there are 60 x 6 articles of clothing. Tha't 360 pieces of clothing  in character creation and already in game! You call this limited? 

     

    What's missing?

    "We see fundamentals and we ape in"
  • CaldrinCaldrin Member UncommonPosts: 4,505
    Originally posted by Xzen

    TSW sub fee + cash shop is keeping me away. It's the only reason I'm not going to play it.

    Why? Just dont use the cash shop.. as stated before there will be nothing in the cash shop that you need to buy to be able to play the game, nothing in there will give an unfair advantage in pvp.. so just ignore it..

  • The user and all related content has been deleted.
  • bcbullybcbully Member EpicPosts: 11,838
    Originally posted by Soandsoso

    For the GuidWars fans.

     

    That's right, Buy to play + Cash shop. As found in arenanet's blog (Which is linked to from the official GW2 site):

    ".... Dye hues themselves will be unlockable through various means, both in-game and out."

    "With the transmutation system, you’ll be able to acquire new items known as Transmutation Stones through our in-game store that allow you to customize your appearance."

    The first one, most Guild Wars players will know. In the old game you could dye your armour. As for the transmutation stones, they're allowing you to take a set with good looks and put the look onto a armour or weapon set with better stats. And to clarify, the in-game store refers to the shop with buying items with real money already available in Guild Wars 1.  (See http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Guild_Wars_In-Game_Store).

    Sorry girls, looks like it's drab colors for the poor!

    WHY is this something worth complaining about? You have to PAY for Guild Wars 2, as you did for the old game. Then they are planning paid expansion/campaign packs. I'm guessing all are going to be around the standard price of $50-60. In a F2P game, you don't pay for anything and get an awesome game (With intentionally small item bags and ugly armours). Why would I pay $60 then, right after buying a game, to get these in game items?

    Before I go off onto a war on Cash shops, player's rights and DLC. The community manager for Anet, Regina Buenaobra has said on this controversial topic - "Our developers really care about the game, and are passionate about making it awesome for players. We understand your concerns, and we're all listening." So I suggest if you have a problem with this, to light up your torches and head to their "Elite" fansites (Which they visit) or mail them at one of the addresses found here: http://www.guildwars.com/support/contactinfo/default.php

    Now I can continue with my tirade AFTER this brief observation of NCSoft. Hopefully I did my math correctly. Feel free to check and comment.

    Before I get attacked for picking on small old Anet (Owned by NCSoft), let me bring up their quarterly reports. Which can be found at http://www.ncsoft.net/global/

    For these parts, $1 = ~1139.5 KRW. And it is KRW in the millions on their charts. If you look at the numbers, Guild Wars is still selling, despite it's last expansion being sold 3 years ago. Then take a look at their net income, which would be simply (REVENUE + GAINS) - (Losses + EXPENSES). Even after the loss of $47 mil from being sued, which I believe is under Q2 2010, they've still got $26 mil, In 1 QUARTER of the year.

    You're free to muck through the reports until you find when Guild Wars and friends released, but just looking at the current quarter, $4 million for Guild Wars. In 1/4th of the year, for an old game gone from it's hayday. That's a damn lot. Now wait until Guild Wars 2 comes out, and you and all the gamers buy it for $60. Then imagine how much bigger their profits will be when you have to pay however much it is for the "Good color" dye packs and the ability to swap armor skins and whatever else they decide is "Only cosmetic". I apologize for making this article. Their profits are so tiny, that even I make more than that.

    You guys are right. "They're only cosmetic".

    After looking through this, I believe my and your $60 isn't enough to cover cosmetics and whatever else they decide isn't. Even if it is already is on the CD.

    I've forgotten that a key feature of MMORPG's and Guild Wars wasn't to customize your characters.

    I'm ashamed of my words....

     

    Now on with the riot for justice!

    For those who've been away from Guild Wars (The first) for some time, they've also added cash shop items. I'm assuming they had a taste of the profit that could be had, because it seems that they're carrying the idea over to Guild Wars 2. It seems that the cash shop motivates them, as anyone who bought the Eye of the North expansion will remember. Do you recall the controversy over the armour recycling? (For those who don't know, prestiege armour was a big deal in GW PVE). Apparently, the designers were motivated enough by the cash shops to create unique armours as opposed to armours with copied or modified shapes and designs.

    Not only that, but long requested features, such as a "Hair dresser" or make overs for characters were added.... After 4 years of requests and a once per re-make of $10! One would assume that the use of cash shop was deemed necessary because Guild Wars 2 would be free roming and persistant, but there are many F2P games with persistance and great graphics. I am thinking this is a trend of blatant greed. Not just from Anet, but from many other game developers as well.

    This is a disturbing trend indeed, in which P2P games are including cash shops in their games and complacent gamers argue "Those are only cosmetic additions..." until mounts and game altering short cuts and "Buying to win" situations are made.

     

    I am not a fan of cash shop in any game in which we already PAID for the game. Especially if there is a subscription or the game attempts to market itself as a competitive game. Do not write me off as alarmist as WoW has added a cash shop with pets and mounts. Aion added character re-creation to their cash shop, despite their in-ability to stop bots and farmers in game. Even Team Fortress 2 has added short cuts and easy paths to getting hard to get items.

    Even console games are not immune to cash shops, althought they're marketed as DLC (Down load content) there are item packs, cosmetics and attempts to squeeze cash out of the consumer. These are especially sickening when you remember the Resident Evil 5 Vs pack. Which was just an 351 KB unlock for something ALREADY on the DISK! It's really just selling you the horse, then making you pay for it's organs.

     

     

    We as gamers must stop being so complacent and allowing ourselves to be cheaped and duped by million dollar companies. "It's just cosmetic" "You don't have to buy it". You act as if you did'nt pay for $60 dollars and got ripped off!

    What happened to us? Why did we let the trolls convince us that our valid arguments and ideals are just QQing? No one can criticize these giants anymore, any attempt is just plain old crying.

    The fanboy is the new homo sapien, doomed to buy DLC and pay double for the same amount of content our gaming forefathers so happily enjoyed.

    GG

    "We see fundamentals and we ape in"
  • VengerVenger Member UncommonPosts: 1,309

    It factored in for me but there were other larger issues.

  • SoandsosoSoandsoso Member Posts: 533
    Originally posted by cinos

    @Soandsoso: Just a minor point, but that quote regarding Transmutation stones is really outdated. Whilst you can also buy them in the shop I also acquired one by completing all the marked stuff in Queensdale. Likely there are now other ways to acquire them too.

    Additionally mobs also drop dye now. So you don't even have to use the cash shop to acquire either of those items.

    And there is clothing in TSW that you can obtain ingame as well. Like I said. Some are willing to pay for the fluff, some are willing to play for the fluff. To say that I am not going to play the game because it gave me options is foolish. That is what this post is about.

    This game gave me the option to use an item store and I wont play because of that. Most sensible people will say then just don't use the store and enjoy the game as is.

  • SovrathSovrath Member LegendaryPosts: 31,892

    As long as the item shop is just "fluff items" it doesn't matter to me.

     

    Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb." 

    Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w


    Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547

    Try the "Special Edition." 'Cause it's "Special." https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/64878/?tab=description

    Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo 
  • ThorbrandThorbrand Member Posts: 1,198

    Not the case with me since TSW is the only unique game being released this year unless AA releases also.

    Advanced version of the combat in GW2. Should be GW2 is a dumbed down version of TSW combat since TSW releases before GW2.

    Real ability wheel free for you to use as you wish. Looks at all the possibilities you have available!

    Puzzles that require you to think.

    PvE that is thrilling after T1. T1 can be a challenge but is mostly easy.

    Dungeons are amazing. Polaris rocked. Can't believe we have real dungeons again instead of what has been the standard.

    Most advanced graphics of any game released. The only true DX11 game and if you look at the world with a real graphics card you will see it. Nothing can help you if you don't have the hardware however.

    Only thing left is PvP and if by chance FunCom got it right it is the best game of the decade.

  • bcbullybcbully Member EpicPosts: 11,838
    Originally posted by Sovrath

    As long as the item shop is just "fluff items" it doesn't matter to me.

     

    and gear, and gold is not fluff imo.

     

     

     

     

     

     

    tsw has neither in the cash shop.

    "We see fundamentals and we ape in"
  • bcbullybcbully Member EpicPosts: 11,838
    Originally posted by Thorbrand

    Not the case with me since TSW is the only unique game being released this year unless AA releases also.

    Advanced version of the combat in GW2. Should be GW2 is a dumbed down version of TSW combat since TSW releases before GW2.

    Real ability wheel free for you to use as you wish. Looks at all the possibilities you have available!

    Puzzles that require you to think.

    PvE that is thrilling after T1. T1 can be a challenge but is mostly easy.

    Dungeons are amazing. Polaris rocked. Can't believe we have real dungeons again instead of what has been the standard.

    Most advanced graphics of any game released. The only true DX11 game and if you look at the world with a real graphics card you will see it. Nothing can help you if you don't have the hardware however.

    Only thing left is PvP and if by chance FunCom got it right it is the best game of the decade.

    They nailed it.

    "We see fundamentals and we ape in"
  • raistlinmraistlinm Member Posts: 673
    Originally posted by fldash

    Just curious. I really want to play this, but since I've already purchased GW2 and it doesn't have a subscription fee, I find it incredibly hard to justify paying a subscription fee for any other game. I would consider one that was perhaps half the cost of the traditional $15, but with a item shop, it really rubs me the wrong way...

    Not as much as the track record of the developers over at Funcom.

  • zimboy69zimboy69 Member UncommonPosts: 395

    sub fee alone is keeping me away

     

    I could afford  to buy the box and  keep saying to myself its  going to last me  6-12 months

     

    but the   £10 a month on top i cannot  justify,  let alone the cash shop

     

    when you have a family  you  simply have to make a choice

     

     

     

     

    image

  • BeansnBreadBeansnBread Member EpicPosts: 7,254
    Originally posted by Thorbrand

    Not the case with me since TSW is the only unique game being released this year unless AA releases also.

    Advanced version of the combat in GW2. Should be GW2 is a dumbed down version of TSW combat since TSW releases before GW2.

    Real ability wheel free for you to use as you wish. Looks at all the possibilities you have available!

    Puzzles that require you to think.

    PvE that is thrilling after T1. T1 can be a challenge but is mostly easy.

    Dungeons are amazing. Polaris rocked. Can't believe we have real dungeons again instead of what has been the standard.

    Most advanced graphics of any game released. The only true DX11 game and if you look at the world with a real graphics card you will see it. Nothing can help you if you don't have the hardware however.

    Only thing left is PvP and if by chance FunCom got it right it is the best game of the decade.

    GW2 combat is a dumbed down version of TSW combat...

     

    Thanks for the laugh.

  • SovrathSovrath Member LegendaryPosts: 31,892
    Originally posted by zimboy69

     

    when you have a family  you  simply have to make a choice

     

     

     

     

    er, I suppose.

    But if $10 per month or even $15 per month is going to force one to "make a choice" then I have to wonder if laying off games completely would be a better choice.

    I'm sure this has been mentioned but people spend more than that on movies. Or coffee for the week.

    Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb." 

    Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w


    Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547

    Try the "Special Edition." 'Cause it's "Special." https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/64878/?tab=description

    Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo 
  • L0C0ManL0C0Man Member UncommonPosts: 1,065

    Funny enough, the cash shop isn't what's keeping me away from the game... the sub is, though, for two reasons mainly.

    First reason is something that's probably unique to me on this site. I'm in Venezuela, and because of some stupid local foreign currency exchange laws I can't spend more than $400 a year online, anything I buy local means paying 4 times its price (won't go into more detail, google "cadivi" if you feel like reading more about it). That means I have to be more careful about where I spend the money, plus I already bought computer parts to upgrade my PC (mobo - memory - CPU, video card I bought last year) plus already buying GW2 doesn't leave me enough money left for both box + sub for TSW.

    The other one is with the game itself. I do believe it's an excellent game, and even with all the innovations it brings to the table (classless, leveless system, ability wheel and so on), the best and biggest thing I like about it is the athmosphere. I just can't remember any recent MMO with such a great athmosphere, and even I find it hard to remember recent single player games I've played that compare to it.

    That said... while playing on both betas I honestly felt like the fact that it is an MMO hurts it a bit. Because of such a great atmosphere and immersion I felt myself more annoyed than I ever did before with things that I accepted without a problem in other MMOs, things like going to look for a missing person (that was turned into a zombie) and finding that someone else just killed it and having to wait for it to respawn or sneaking around in the airport to try to sabotage the EMP system, and having other people do the same behind me, or just the fact of seeing so many people running around shooting and killing zombies in what should be a deserted besieged town.

    During the whole beta experience I kept thinking how much better the game would be (for me, at least) if it was more like GW1 or DDO, where you have a central hub to join people (kinda like Agartha) and then personalized instances for you and your group to play on. I don't know if it'll be like that in the rest of the game, but in the beta weekends the game felt more like a single player game with other people running around than an actual MMO (maybe that other game I won't mention that's also doing beta weekends spoiled me in that sense, while I don't consider either to be a fully superior game to the other, that particular aspect is something that other game does much better, IMHO).

    I will keep an eye on it, I do believe it's a very high quality an innovative game that deserves a huge success... I just don't feel like it offers enough for me to pay both box and sub.

    What can men do against such reckless hate?

  • bcbullybcbully Member EpicPosts: 11,838
    Originally posted by colddog04
    Originally posted by Thorbrand

    Not the case with me since TSW is the only unique game being released this year unless AA releases also.

    Advanced version of the combat in GW2. Should be GW2 is a dumbed down version of TSW combat since TSW releases before GW2.

    Real ability wheel free for you to use as you wish. Looks at all the possibilities you have available!

    Puzzles that require you to think.

    PvE that is thrilling after T1. T1 can be a challenge but is mostly easy.

    Dungeons are amazing. Polaris rocked. Can't believe we have real dungeons again instead of what has been the standard.

    Most advanced graphics of any game released. The only true DX11 game and if you look at the world with a real graphics card you will see it. Nothing can help you if you don't have the hardware however.

    Only thing left is PvP and if by chance FunCom got it right it is the best game of the decade.

    GW2 combat is a dumbed down version of TSW combat...

     

    Thanks for the laugh.

    Anet - 

    "We made it simpler"

    "We did not want people to be overwhelmed" 

     

    "Option Shock. New players at level 20 were clicking on a trait line for the first time and seeing 12 options which was very overwhelming. This gives them a bit of a reprieve to pick between a smaller number of traits at first and then learn more as they have played their character more."

     

    12 options was too overwhelming for their base?!?!?

    "We see fundamentals and we ape in"
  • udonudon Member UncommonPosts: 1,803
    Originally posted by colddog04
    Originally posted by Thorbrand

    Not the case with me since TSW is the only unique game being released this year unless AA releases also.

    Advanced version of the combat in GW2. Should be GW2 is a dumbed down version of TSW combat since TSW releases before GW2.

    Real ability wheel free for you to use as you wish. Looks at all the possibilities you have available!

    Puzzles that require you to think.

    PvE that is thrilling after T1. T1 can be a challenge but is mostly easy.

    Dungeons are amazing. Polaris rocked. Can't believe we have real dungeons again instead of what has been the standard.

    Most advanced graphics of any game released. The only true DX11 game and if you look at the world with a real graphics card you will see it. Nothing can help you if you don't have the hardware however.

    Only thing left is PvP and if by chance FunCom got it right it is the best game of the decade.

    GW2 combat is a dumbed down version of TSW combat...

     

    Thanks for the laugh.

    Way to many people confuse the act of selecting which skills you put on your skill bar with the act of fighting mobs.  The first TSW does pretty well and it's really cool, the later TSW leaves a LOT to be desired.  The sad part is you spend a thousand times longer doing the 2nd than the 1st.

    TSW, the weekest part of the game (by the devs own amission) is the part you spend the most time doing.  How did that end up happening?

  • WizardryWizardry Member LegendaryPosts: 19,332

    @ the OP..

     

    It has not been a factor for me becuase i have not thought much about playing this type of game.

    However i wil lsay i quit playing EQ2 becuase the cash shop nonsense wears on you after awhile.

    When i see more cash shop content entering a game than otherwise,i get pissed.Then to add insult bugs get less attention than the cash shop.To add even more insult i get emails telling me of new cash items and the opening login is constantly updated with cash shop.This MIGHT not happen in TSW,but it most certainly is something i don't want to see a remote chance of anymore.Developers seem to forget that the 15 bucks a month ,although not a large sum is MORE than what they need to run the bandwidth,so in essence the yare profitting off the game and the internet.

    It becomes a greed factor that i wouldn't mind so much IF the game garners the same attention.Now again this might not happen in TSW,it most certainly did in EQ2 so i quit that game.

    There is an even better way to look at it.Imagine this site offers you some value,now imagine the ydecided to charge you only 2 bucks to come here?You can use the same excuses,it is not very much only pennies a day,but would you accept it?I would not and i bet at least 90% would not.

    Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.

  • rankor2rankor2 Member UncommonPosts: 115
    Just the sub keeping me away from this. And as zimboy said when you have a family you do think about where your money goes. For me it's about the value I'd get if I payed monthly. I just don't have the time to sit and play due to commitments to my family so it would be chucking money away like having pay-tv and just watching 1 show a month.

    Cash shop doesn't bother me though.
  • bcbullybcbully Member EpicPosts: 11,838
    Originally posted by udon
     

    Way to many people confuse the act of selecting which skills you put on your skill bar with the act of fighting mobs.  The first TSW does pretty well and it's really cool, the later TSW leaves a LOT to be desired.  The sad part is you spend a thousand times longer doing the 2nd than the 1st.

    TSW, the weekest part of the game (by the devs own amission) is the part you spend the most time doing.  How did that end up happening?

    link or it didn't happen.

    "We see fundamentals and we ape in"
  • udonudon Member UncommonPosts: 1,803
    Originally posted by bcbully
    Originally posted by udon
     

    Way to many people confuse the act of selecting which skills you put on your skill bar with the act of fighting mobs.  The first TSW does pretty well and it's really cool, the later TSW leaves a LOT to be desired.  The sad part is you spend a thousand times longer doing the 2nd than the 1st.

    TSW, the weekest part of the game (by the devs own amission) is the part you spend the most time doing.  How did that end up happening?

    link or it didn't happen.

    No,  If your to lazy to look up the dev comments about combat needing improvements than call me a liar if it makes you feel better.

  • BeansnBreadBeansnBread Member EpicPosts: 7,254
    Originally posted by bcbully
    Originally posted by colddog04
    Originally posted by Thorbrand

    Not the case with me since TSW is the only unique game being released this year unless AA releases also.

    Advanced version of the combat in GW2. Should be GW2 is a dumbed down version of TSW combat since TSW releases before GW2.

    Real ability wheel free for you to use as you wish. Looks at all the possibilities you have available!

    Puzzles that require you to think.

    PvE that is thrilling after T1. T1 can be a challenge but is mostly easy.

    Dungeons are amazing. Polaris rocked. Can't believe we have real dungeons again instead of what has been the standard.

    Most advanced graphics of any game released. The only true DX11 game and if you look at the world with a real graphics card you will see it. Nothing can help you if you don't have the hardware however.

    Only thing left is PvP and if by chance FunCom got it right it is the best game of the decade.

    GW2 combat is a dumbed down version of TSW combat...

     

    Thanks for the laugh.

    Anet - 

    "We made it simpler"

    "We did not want people to be overwhelmed" 

     

    "Option Shock. New players at level 20 were clicking on a trait line for the first time and seeing 12 options which was very overwhelming. This gives them a bit of a reprieve to pick between a smaller number of traits at first and then learn more as they have played their character more."

     

    12 options was too overwhelming for their base?!?!?

    Obviously you have some serious issues understanding the difference between combat and character customization.

     

     

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