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Is the sub fee + item shop keeping anyone away?

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  • BartDaCatBartDaCat Member UncommonPosts: 813

    If it's just vanity items, then the answer would be "No, it doesn't bother me a bit."  If you have PROOF that it's going to be filled with something else then go ahead and display the proof for all to see, otherwise it's just addle-brained speculation.

  • Sameer1979Sameer1979 Member Posts: 362
    Originally posted by tares
    Originally posted by Sameer1979
    Originally posted by tares
    Originally posted by bcbully
    Originally posted by tares

    It doesn't make sense to have both without a free to play co-current model going too.  It really doesn't make sense when they expect 33% of revenues to come from the cash shop when there is no free to play model going.

    This is what grinded my gears,  tailsman and weapon upgrades were readily available and were upgraded often. However, at the end of zone two open beta my toon looked the same as she did when I started the game.  I go to the shops faction areas and the stores have the same outfits from the toon creation options.  The suit was the only new options I saw and even that could have been in the toon creater.

    My guess is all new clothes and styles will be put in the cash shop so my toon would always look the same if I decided to start one and play a million hours because clothes are very limited in the game, yet I'm sure will be more developed in the store.  Toon looks are important, remember all the swtor rage over gear that looked like trash bags, even after it was fixed so could make any gear have the same stats.

    There are several hundred articles of clothing in character creation of which you get to pick 5. If it is as you say (I haven't found all of them, the are not all in london) and all several hundred are in game, I can't see how that's a bad thing. 

     

    Why didn't you buy some?

    I picked the best outfit available during toon creation, like I pointed out you can pick all of the best styles during toon creation.  There is no progression in how you look without the cash shop. So my concern is those 10-15 styles of clothes per slot are the only options w/o paying for the many styles in the cash shop.

    There are not many styles as many of the options are just a colour choice. 

    So what about the cosmetic drops from dungeons and bosses? or the merchant in three starting cities? or the ones you get from your faction as you progress in ranks? you conveniently forgot to mention all that.

    No, I mentioned the shops having the same gear from the toon creation.  I look at the quest/mob rewards when I pick them up and didn't see any shirts, shoes, or any other items. If they have new fashion models drop from bosses, that is cool.

    I finished everything though and didn't see anything so checked the shop. If you made a toon in open beta 3 you could select any merchant items, beta 1 and 2 had fewer options.

    Challenge or boing grinds to get an item isn't an issue, in SWTOR I did all the space missions for a helmit and ran nOObs hrough the first instance, because hard modes didn't give social points, for social points to get cosmetic gear that can be upgraded to equal the best gear in that game.

    Not all gear is not same, for example you don't have option for gloves while making your character but you can buy those from merchant in New York. There are other different looking gear too. Also there is faction specific outfits and cosmetic drops from dungeons. There is plenty of variety in gear and we have only seen two regions in open beta so far. So nope you won't be forced to spend cash in item shop to look unique.

  • loki27loki27 Member Posts: 24

    I don't really mind when an MMO has a non-game-breaking item shop (although having it on top of a sub fee is outrageous), but it's the monthly fees themselves that I do mind in this day and age. So for me it's rather simple: I would buy the game if it didn't have a subscription fee.

    Never argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.

  • WicoaWicoa Member UncommonPosts: 1,637

    Keeping away the subscription fee is 44% higher than say the industry standard in the UK and 30% odd for the rest of EU.  I am waiting for planetside 2 which is free to play and no subscription but I will dump a months worth of fee into it every month to build points so I can be a plasma noob (tribes ascend pun).

  • fenistilfenistil Member Posts: 3,005

    Well what keeps me most is game itself. (even though after seing first cinematic I was so fired up...)

    So currently I would not play even if someone would pay for my box and sub and there would be no CS.

     

    ------------

    Still sub + CS is big no no for any mmorpg. Alredy decided I will not play TSW before beta weekends - day Funcom announced sub + CS business model.

     

  • The user and all related content has been deleted.
  • bcbullybcbully Member EpicPosts: 11,838
    Originally posted by tares
    Originally posted by Sameer1979
    Originally posted by tares
    Originally posted by bcbully
    Originally posted by tares

    It doesn't make sense to have both without a free to play co-current model going too.  It really doesn't make sense when they expect 33% of revenues to come from the cash shop when there is no free to play model going.

    This is what grinded my gears,  tailsman and weapon upgrades were readily available and were upgraded often. However, at the end of zone two open beta my toon looked the same as she did when I started the game.  I go to the shops faction areas and the stores have the same outfits from the toon creation options.  The suit was the only new options I saw and even that could have been in the toon creater.

    My guess is all new clothes and styles will be put in the cash shop so my toon would always look the same if I decided to start one and play a million hours because clothes are very limited in the game, yet I'm sure will be more developed in the store.  Toon looks are important, remember all the swtor rage over gear that looked like trash bags, even after it was fixed so could make any gear have the same stats.

    There are several hundred articles of clothing in character creation of which you get to pick 5. If it is as you say (I haven't found all of them, the are not all in london) and all several hundred are in game, I can't see how that's a bad thing. 

     

    Why didn't you buy some?

    I picked the best outfit available during toon creation, like I pointed out you can pick all of the best styles during toon creation.  There is no progression in how you look without the cash shop. So my concern is those 10-15 styles of clothes per slot are the only options w/o paying for the many styles in the cash shop.

    There are not many styles as many of the options are just a colour choice. 

    So what about the cosmetic drops from dungeons and bosses? or the merchant in three starting cities? or the ones you get from your faction as you progress in ranks? you conveniently forgot to mention all that.

    No, I mentioned the shops having the same gear from the toon creation.  I look at the quest/mob rewards when I pick them up and didn't see any shirts, shoes, or any other items. If they have new fashion models drop from bosses, that is cool.

    I finished everything though and didn't see anything so checked the shop. If you made a toon in open beta 3 you could select any merchant items, beta 1 and 2 had fewer options.

    Challenge or boing grinds to get an item isn't an issue, in SWTOR I did all the space missions for a helmit and ran nOObs hrough the first instance, because hard modes didn't give social points, for social points to get cosmetic gear that can be upgraded to equal the best gear in that game.

    You picked the "best available" out of several hundred articles of clothing? You just don't ware you favorite shirt everyday irl do you? You have a lot of options, much more than most games. Champions is about the only game that I can think of that that might give you more option in what you ware. There may be another, Idk but you get the idea.

     

    10-15 styles per slot each of those 10-15 styles has about 10 different colors. How many styles of pants are there irl? I know I'd be hard pressed to think of 15 different styles of pants. 

     

    As far as the difference between beta 1, 2, and 3, it's beta. ofcourse if a dev is doing the right thing there will be more "things" as beta goes on. That's what beta is for. Now that you have a lot more choices availible to you, get some PAX and change those dirty jeans and old shirt image

    "We see fundamentals and we ape in"
  • FelconianFelconian Member Posts: 103

    YES YES ..and YES ...op its a ripoff and they should be taken to the Human Right NGO's

    When STO did that i kicked it to the curb... Greed ..thats all ...if you make a good open world MMO game your subs will be enough.

    They expecting idiots to fall for this.....

    Oh wait are they offering LIFETIME subs ...ROFL.... ROFL

  • MechanismMechanism Member UncommonPosts: 143
    Cash shops in a sub game just seem like a self inflicted cancer to me. It is effort spent by the developer that will never make their game more attractive to new customers.
    Both players and developers benefit from more subscribers, opening a CS just seems like giving up on that.
  • wasim470wasim470 Member Posts: 243
    MMO Companies been Greedy for long, I enough don't think I’ll ever pay a sub again, after looking at what Anet did offer with no Sub fee and a very fair shop as i see it, Gems for gold and gold for Gems.
     
  • sindraodsindraod Member Posts: 28

    I'm no mathematician, but...

    sub fee + item shop + EA = epic fail

  • tysonj25tysonj25 Member UncommonPosts: 66

    15 dollars a month isn't even one trip for me to the movies (heck I pay 115 a month for cable and don't get 20 hours of enjoyment a month) and if I get 10+ hours a month in enjoyment... worth it. As for cash shop I have never bought anything  in 15+ years in MMO gaming, so just because they have it doesn't mean you have to use it. And honestly its a game, if somebody buys something to be an ubergod..I don't really care, I measure it by if I have fun, not by others!

     

  • alkarionlogalkarionlog Member EpicPosts: 3,584

    don't matter much IF i play it it will be till GW2 is out so what a month 2 at most? in that kind of time its almost impossible to someone f**** things up with CS,

     

    but human beings like to impress me in a bad way....

    FOR HONOR, FOR FREEDOM.... and for some money.
  • hundejahrehundejahre Member Posts: 339

    No, the fact that I don't like the game will keep me away.

  • highflyinghighflying Member Posts: 22

    I don't really care if it cost money to play.

    Where I come from, 1 month of game time would cost as much as a burger with fries.

    And if I plan on investing a lot of hours in a game, I'm gonna play the game that is most entertaining, even if it would cost some cash lol what does it matter?

    And if I find something cool in the cash shop, I'll probably buy that as well unless its really expensive.

     

    Saving a few dimes and settleing with a worse game, when the money it would cost for the better game equals fuck all, then I honestly don't see the point in playing computer games, I honestly think people write this crap just to "riot" against funcom, in their own little teenage dirtbag way.

     

  • SoandsosoSoandsoso Member Posts: 533

    I have come to the conclusion that the ones so against sub + optional store just cant stop themselves from spending money in the store.

    You should thank Funcom for helping you save some money.

  • udonudon Member UncommonPosts: 1,803
    Originally posted by bcbully 

    Theres several hundred articles of clothing  in CC and in game stores. Why would you look like anyone else?

    No their isn't.  Their are 10 or so items in a half dozen or so colors each for each slot at most.  Overall the choices are pretty limited although I will say their were more this last weekend than weekends past so it's at least better.

    A modern day setting MMO with the graphics style of TSW should have a huge number of clothing and personalization options. If they didn't want to do that they should have gone in a more stylized art direction.  As it stands the lack of customization stands out a lot to many people.

     

  • LagozLagoz Member Posts: 92

    Well the major difference here is that using CS(Clothes Store) in TSW is completely optional.

    In GW2 you will have to use the CS(Crystal Store) through buying crystals with real money or ingame gold.

    I'm more drawn to this game because it's P2P.

  • KhayotixKhayotix Member UncommonPosts: 231

    any game with a sub and cash shop the cash shop is fluff items that you dont need to buy. the sub is how they make their bread and butter the CS is the gravy. So really it is no reason to hold anyone back, since they can just ignore the cash shop.


  • udonudon Member UncommonPosts: 1,803
    Originally posted by Lagoz

    Well the major difference here is that using CS(Clothes Store) in TSW is completely optional.

    In GW2 you will have to use the CS(Crystal Store) through buying crystals with real money or ingame gold.

    I'm more drawn to this game because it's P2P.

    That makes zero sense.

    I'm not a fan of GW2's cash shop but how do you have to use it?  Bag slots maybe, and the mytic keys annoy me to no end but even so neither of those are any worse than putting 90% of the clothing options in a cash shop.

    And even if it was true you still have to consider that you pay $15 a month or so for TSW where you pay $0 a month for GW2, so unless you think the bags/mytic keys are going to cost north of $15 you still come out ahead.

    If they took the mystic keys and a few of the potions out of the GW2 cash shop I would be ok with it because it's a buy once to play game.  Having both a monthly sub and a very healthy cash shop in TSW just seems over the top to me.  I had hoped that SWTOR, TERA and RIFT had broken the trend sub games where taking in this regrad but I guess some developers still think they can get away with it.

  • SoandsosoSoandsoso Member Posts: 533

    For the GuidWars fans.

     

    That's right, Buy to play + Cash shop. As found in arenanet's blog (Which is linked to from the official GW2 site):

    ".... Dye hues themselves will be unlockable through various means, both in-game and out."

    "With the transmutation system, you’ll be able to acquire new items known as Transmutation Stones through our in-game store that allow you to customize your appearance."

    The first one, most Guild Wars players will know. In the old game you could dye your armour. As for the transmutation stones, they're allowing you to take a set with good looks and put the look onto a armour or weapon set with better stats. And to clarify, the in-game store refers to the shop with buying items with real money already available in Guild Wars 1.  (See http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Guild_Wars_In-Game_Store).

    Sorry girls, looks like it's drab colors for the poor!

    WHY is this something worth complaining about? You have to PAY for Guild Wars 2, as you did for the old game. Then they are planning paid expansion/campaign packs. I'm guessing all are going to be around the standard price of $50-60. In a F2P game, you don't pay for anything and get an awesome game (With intentionally small item bags and ugly armours). Why would I pay $60 then, right after buying a game, to get these in game items?

    Before I go off onto a war on Cash shops, player's rights and DLC. The community manager for Anet, Regina Buenaobra has said on this controversial topic - "Our developers really care about the game, and are passionate about making it awesome for players. We understand your concerns, and we're all listening." So I suggest if you have a problem with this, to light up your torches and head to their "Elite" fansites (Which they visit) or mail them at one of the addresses found here: http://www.guildwars.com/support/contactinfo/default.php

    Now I can continue with my tirade AFTER this brief observation of NCSoft. Hopefully I did my math correctly. Feel free to check and comment.

    Before I get attacked for picking on small old Anet (Owned by NCSoft), let me bring up their quarterly reports. Which can be found at http://www.ncsoft.net/global/

    For these parts, $1 = ~1139.5 KRW. And it is KRW in the millions on their charts. If you look at the numbers, Guild Wars is still selling, despite it's last expansion being sold 3 years ago. Then take a look at their net income, which would be simply (REVENUE + GAINS) - (Losses + EXPENSES). Even after the loss of $47 mil from being sued, which I believe is under Q2 2010, they've still got $26 mil, In 1 QUARTER of the year.

    You're free to muck through the reports until you find when Guild Wars and friends released, but just looking at the current quarter, $4 million for Guild Wars. In 1/4th of the year, for an old game gone from it's hayday. That's a damn lot. Now wait until Guild Wars 2 comes out, and you and all the gamers buy it for $60. Then imagine how much bigger their profits will be when you have to pay however much it is for the "Good color" dye packs and the ability to swap armor skins and whatever else they decide is "Only cosmetic". I apologize for making this article. Their profits are so tiny, that even I make more than that.

    You guys are right. "They're only cosmetic".

    After looking through this, I believe my and your $60 isn't enough to cover cosmetics and whatever else they decide isn't. Even if it is already is on the CD.

    I've forgotten that a key feature of MMORPG's and Guild Wars wasn't to customize your characters.

    I'm ashamed of my words....

     

    Now on with the riot for justice!

    For those who've been away from Guild Wars (The first) for some time, they've also added cash shop items. I'm assuming they had a taste of the profit that could be had, because it seems that they're carrying the idea over to Guild Wars 2. It seems that the cash shop motivates them, as anyone who bought the Eye of the North expansion will remember. Do you recall the controversy over the armour recycling? (For those who don't know, prestiege armour was a big deal in GW PVE). Apparently, the designers were motivated enough by the cash shops to create unique armours as opposed to armours with copied or modified shapes and designs.

    Not only that, but long requested features, such as a "Hair dresser" or make overs for characters were added.... After 4 years of requests and a once per re-make of $10! One would assume that the use of cash shop was deemed necessary because Guild Wars 2 would be free roming and persistant, but there are many F2P games with persistance and great graphics. I am thinking this is a trend of blatant greed. Not just from Anet, but from many other game developers as well.

    This is a disturbing trend indeed, in which P2P games are including cash shops in their games and complacent gamers argue "Those are only cosmetic additions..." until mounts and game altering short cuts and "Buying to win" situations are made.

     

    I am not a fan of cash shop in any game in which we already PAID for the game. Especially if there is a subscription or the game attempts to market itself as a competitive game. Do not write me off as alarmist as WoW has added a cash shop with pets and mounts. Aion added character re-creation to their cash shop, despite their in-ability to stop bots and farmers in game. Even Team Fortress 2 has added short cuts and easy paths to getting hard to get items.

    Even console games are not immune to cash shops, althought they're marketed as DLC (Down load content) there are item packs, cosmetics and attempts to squeeze cash out of the consumer. These are especially sickening when you remember the Resident Evil 5 Vs pack. Which was just an 351 KB unlock for something ALREADY on the DISK! It's really just selling you the horse, then making you pay for it's organs.

     

     

    We as gamers must stop being so complacent and allowing ourselves to be cheaped and duped by million dollar companies. "It's just cosmetic" "You don't have to buy it". You act as if you did'nt pay for $60 dollars and got ripped off!

    What happened to us? Why did we let the trolls convince us that our valid arguments and ideals are just QQing? No one can criticize these giants anymore, any attempt is just plain old crying.

    The fanboy is the new homo sapien, doomed to buy DLC and pay double for the same amount of content our gaming forefathers so happily enjoyed.

  • NeferaNefera Member Posts: 426

    edit: never mind. Delete please, not worth replying.

  • GreenHellGreenHell Member UncommonPosts: 1,323

    For me its not the sub or the cash shop. Its paying a box fee for a game I know will become F2P in a very short period of time. I can wait the 6 months or so. Just to be clear I don't think the game will go F2P because it sucks I just believe that funcom is now in love with F2P so when the box sales stop and they are not selling anymore LTS thats how its going to go. Just my opinion.

  • gainesvilleggainesvilleg Member CommonPosts: 1,053
    Originally posted by fldash

    Just curious. I really want to play this, but since I've already purchased GW2 and it doesn't have a subscription fee, I find it incredibly hard to justify paying a subscription fee for any other game. I would consider one that was perhaps half the cost of the traditional $15, but with a item shop, it really rubs me the wrong way...

    Thats a funny statement given you bought GW2, a game that is charging you $60 for the box but also includes a free-to-play style item shop.  I would think that would rub you the wrong way as well.

    But regardless of the pricing shell game that is being played these days by unscrupulous developers (Anet included), people don't mind paying for a quality game, even if it has a F2P style cash shop.

    GW2 "built from the ground up with microtransactions in mind"
    1) Cash->Gems->Gold->Influence->WvWvWBoosts = PAY2WIN
    2) Mystic Chests = Crass in-game cash shop advertisements

  • SoandsosoSoandsoso Member Posts: 533
    Originally posted by Nefera
    Originally posted by Soandsoso

    For the GuidWars fans.

     

    That's right, Buy to play + Cash shop. As found in arenanet's blog (Which is linked to from the official GW2 site):

    ".... Dye hues themselves will be unlockable through various means, both in-game and out."

    "With the transmutation system, you’ll be able to acquire new items known as Transmutation Stones through our in-game store that allow you to customize your appearance."

    The first one, most Guild Wars players will know. In the old game you could dye your armour. As for the transmutation stones, they're allowing you to take a set with good looks and put the look onto a armour or weapon set with better stats. And to clarify, the in-game store refers to the shop with buying items with real money already available in Guild Wars 1.  (See http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Guild_Wars_In-Game_Store).

     

    WHY is this something worth complaining about? You have to PAY for Guild Wars 2, as you did for the old game. Then they are planning paid expansion/campaign packs. I'm guessing all are going to be around the standard price of $50-60. In a F2P game, you don't pay for anything and get an awesome game (With intentionally small item bags and ugly armours). Why would I pay $60 then, right after buying a game, to get these in game items?

    Before I go off onto a war on Cash shops, player's rights and DLC. The community manager for Anet, Regina Buenaobra has said on this controversial topic - "Our developers really care about the game, and are passionate about making it awesome for players. We understand your concerns, and we're all listening." So I suggest if you have a problem with this, to light up your torches and head to their "Elite" fansites (Which they visit) or mail them at one of the addresses found here: http://www.guildwars.com/support/contactinfo/default.php

    Now I can continue with my tirade AFTER this brief observation of NCSoft. Hopefully I did my math correctly. Feel free to check and comment.

     

    Before I get attacked for picking on small old Anet (Owned by NCSoft), let me bring up their quarterly reports. Which can be found at http://www.ncsoft.net/global/

    For these parts, $1 = ~1139.5 KRW. And it is KRW in the millions on their charts. If you look at the numbers, Guild Wars is still selling, despite it's last expansion being sold 3 years ago. Then take a look at their net income, which would be simply (REVENUE + GAINS) - (Losses + EXPENSES). Even after the loss of $47 mil from being sued, which I believe is under Q2 2010, they've still got $26 mil, In 1 QUARTER of the year.

    You're free to muck through the reports until you find when Guild Wars and friends released, but just looking at the current quarter, $4 million for Guild Wars. In 1/4th of the year, for an old game gone from it's hayday. That's a damn lot. Now wait until Guild Wars 2 comes out, and you and all the gamers buy it for $60. Then imagine how much bigger their profits will be when you have to pay however much it is for the "Good color" dye packs and the ability to swap armor skins and whatever else they decide is "Only cosmetic". I apologize for making this article. Their profits are so tiny, that even I make more than that.

    You guys are right. "They're only cosmetic".

    After looking through this, I believe my and your $60 isn't enough to cover cosmetics and whatever else they decide isn't. Even if it is already is on the CD.

    I've forgotten that a key feature of MMORPG's and Guild Wars wasn't to customize your characters.

    I'm ashamed of my words....

     

    Now on with the riot for justice!

    For those who've been away from Guild Wars (The first) for some time, they've also added cash shop items. I'm assuming they had a taste of the profit that could be had, because it seems that they're carrying the idea over to Guild Wars 2. It seems that the cash shop motivates them, as anyone who bought the Eye of the North expansion will remember. Do you recall the controversy over the armour recycling? (For those who don't know, prestiege armour was a big deal in GW PVE). Apparently, the designers were motivated enough by the cash shops to create unique armours as opposed to armours with copied or modified shapes and designs.

     

    Not only that, but long requested features, such as a "Hair dresser" or make overs for characters were added.... After 4 years of requests and a once per re-make of $10! One would assume that the use of cash shop was deemed necessary because Guild Wars 2 would be free roming and persistant, but there are many F2P games with persistance and great graphics. I am thinking this is a trend of blatant greed. Not just from Anet, but from many other game developers as well.

    This is a disturbing trend indeed, in which P2P games are including cash shops in their games and complacent gamers argue "Those are only cosmetic additions..." until mounts and game altering short cuts and "Buying to win" situations are made.

     

    I am not a fan of cash shop in any game in which we already PAID for the game. Especially if there is a subscription or the game attempts to market itself as a competitive game. Do not write me off as alarmist as WoW has added a cash shop with pets and mounts. Aion added character re-creation to their cash shop, despite their in-ability to stop bots and farmers in game. Even Team Fortress 2 has added short cuts and easy paths to getting hard to get items.

    Even console games are not immune to cash shops, althought they're marketed as DLC (Down load content) there are item packs, cosmetics and attempts to squeeze cash out of the consumer. These are especially sickening when you remember the Resident Evil 5 Vs pack. Which was just an 351 KB unlock for something ALREADY on the DISK! It's really just selling you the horse, then making you pay for it's organs.

     

     

    We as gamers must stop being so complacent and allowing ourselves to be cheaped and duped by million dollar companies. "It's just cosmetic" "You don't have to buy it". You act as if you did'nt pay for $60 dollars and got ripped off!

    What happened to us? Why did we let the trolls convince us that our valid arguments and ideals are just QQing? No one can criticize these giants anymore, any attempt is just plain old crying.

    The fanboy is the new homo sapien, doomed to buy DLC and pay double for the same amount of content our gaming forefathers so happily enjoyed.

    I see no problem in what you posted above. You do know they can't just spend millions on a game, and then give it away for free?

     

    Regarding GW2: aside from a few costumes, there's nothing in the cash shop that you can't get by playing the game normally. Also, you can use in game gold to buy cash shop credits, so to get the remainder of stuff from cash shop, you won't even have to spend real life cash if you don't want to. You can get the stuff normally by playing the game, or you can drop a few dollars/euros/pounds and get the cosmetic items by not playing the game.

     

    Regarding GW: factual correction, you can use one makeover pack for a total of five times across your account. Everything they're selling is cosmetic, while there are plenty of choices in terms of looks in game as well, so I see no problem here. Oh, and in the case of GW cash shop, no, those costumes aren't what you paid for at launch, the cash shop didn't exist at launch.


    Just like TSW. Those items in the shop, they aren't what you paid for when you bought the box. And at the end of the day, its all up to the player if they want to spend money in the store. Which some in this post seem to not be able to do and are blaming a company for trying to make money off of their inability to not buy from the item shop.

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