Random nature yes, chaotic to an extent. But it seems at bit too much that after every turn you take invasions take place, heroic events happen etc. Thats what i'm getting
Let's be honest here.
Tyria is sort of a sh**hole.
I mean, really, there's horrible things going on all OVER the place. it's like a multi-front war everywhere you go. I just acknowledge that Tyria is a scary place and while it's beautiful, it's like one of those war ravaged third world countries with constant civil wars and roaming gangs with guns.
I think that immersion is one of the defining features of this MMORPG over many previous MMORPGs. Perhaps TSW will have some amazing immersion as well.
But overall, I see immersion as a great strength of this game, not a weakness.
I find GW2 MORE immersive than for example current WoW, Rift and Swtor & many other themeparks.
I find GW2 LESS immersive than Vanilla WoW (when there were no quest gps, teleporting to isntances, automatic everything, dps/ gear meters,etc ) or old P2P Lotro.
I find GW2 MUCH LESS immersive than UO or EvE.
===========================
Well what did you expect though?
It is mainstream themepark. Good, even great one. I enjoyed playing it AND I will play it after release. It is stll better and more or same immersive than CURRENT themeparks.
Still it is made with alot signs, bell & whistles and things screaming "go here" "don't miss it" ,etc
It is MEANT to be like that and this will not be changed.
Would I prefer not to have it? Maybe in forms of some "no hand holding" servers? Sure.
It will NOT happen though.
======================
Good game even very good. Just it's design is not made for what you hoping it would be though OP.
Maybe its just my fanboism at effect here but: You won't find more immersive world in any thempark mmo than in Gw2. My opinion!
Yeah fanboism in effect because Vanguard is very immersive world. GW2 is immersive no doubt but it is way too chaotic and sometimes you feel like an action hero with no time for breaks and enjoying the vistas.
It is more like the real workd is what you are saying. That IS the point. Real Life is hectic hence, GW2 is hectic. I really enjoyed this BWE2. I did notice small little hints to GW1 and it was great to see. The graphics are great and I really enjoyed the way the game felt.
1. To much done through the interface without any real world interaction:
When "immersion" gets in the way of fun then it should go.
Yikes, really? Things taking place realistically (within the laws of the GW2 universe) is immersion, remove to much of that because people want quick entertainment defeats the purpose of building an mmo universe.
Training skills "on the go" is a way to promote this. Same with teleporters. See it this way: when you use a waypoint it's like "pressing fast-forward" on a remote control. It's a way to jump through a boring walk that should be avoided because it is again a limiting "fun factor". Why walk all the time across just for the shake of walking?
Why cant the teleportation happen with a magical cast? Why does it have ot be instant without any relation to what is happening in the game world. i mean HOW and WHAT is it in the GW2 universe that waypoints are there and the way they function.
2. To much use of map signs that stand in the way of incentive to explore.
The amount of rage that would cause would be tremendus. At least Skill Challenges shouldn't be visible in unexplored maps, even those that are not in the current beta (that was certainly lame). But the map signs work both ways. They actually provide an incentive for people to explore, people who usually don't explore will be "forced" to explore in the game. So in the end the signs aren't a bad thing, in fact they help promote exploring instead of limiting it.
I guess you could indeed see it from that perspective as welll.
3. Complete lack of phasing of the content in certain areas:
I remember lots of times walking randomly and some DE began, I don't see your point?
My point is that in certain areas the content is to close to eachother, sometimes to fare stretched. I think it is annoying that some areas seem like there is way to much going on to be realistic and immersive. I like to be in the GW2 universe, with its own logical laws etc. Right now certain areas feel kind of off to me I guess.
1. To much done through the interface without any real world interaction:
When "immersion" gets in the way of fun then it should go.
Yikes, really? Things taking place realistically (within the laws of the GW2 universe) is immersion, remove to much of that because people want quick entertainment defeats the purpose of building an mmo universe.
Or you can go to the other end of "immersion" and create a game like Darkfall. Immersive? Hell yes. Fun? Not for the vast majority of people.
Training skills "on the go" is a way to promote this. Same with teleporters. See it this way: when you use a waypoint it's like "pressing fast-forward" on a remote control. It's a way to jump through a boring walk that should be avoided because it is again a limiting "fun factor". Why walk all the time across just for the shake of walking?
Why cant the teleportation happen with a magical cast? Why does it have ot be instant without any relation to what is happening in the game world. i mean HOW and WHAT is it in the GW2 universe that waypoints are there and the way they function.
It's nothing. It's more like a fast-travel option that exists in most single player games. It's a way to "fast-forward" to a far away place without having to run through, just for the shake or running. If all you are going to do is run across a field, why do it? Press "fast forward" and be done with it. The Asura Gates are well defined and explained, but I would certainly not want a map with thousands of Asura Gates all over.
Block the trolls, don't answer them, so we can remove the garbage from these forums
Well, I started playing in this BWE for the first time and after some time I checked the watch on the wall and was like: "WTF 10 hours passed already???!?!".
So many WTF post here, its just ridiculous. Anyway, to keep the criticism positive i felt pretty much the opposite, the game (pve part at least) is filled with immersion.
Just an example to back me up, i find both relying on the map marker and the "an event is near" announcement to look for something but mostly to check what place i haven't explored and where i should heading, as i did found many really nice and hidden places just saying to myself, "ho look there that seam like something to go check" without opening the map, in fact many nice spot are hidden in caves and underground. So really i don't get what the OP is talking about.
But for many of the complains about this game i will only say something old like the bible "you can see only what you are looking for". I think people are so much brain washed about a way to behave and play mmo its just not even funny, for us that are old gamer and saw pretty much everything, it's probably a lot easier to adapt to a new kind of gameplay. But for the new gen, i think they must miss a lot from the "game is repetitive", "combat is about spamming", "melee suck, ranged is OP"... Now lack of immersion, i mean its one of the most immersive mmo since UO, in fact it is not one of the, but the most immersive, so wtf are people talking about?... I mean the whole world have story happening everywhere and a large portions are linked to each other, no immersion, are you sure you actually put any attention to the world to came with such conclusion?
My advise is to drop the way you are playing and just go around, put extra attention to detail, try to follow npc that seam to have a goal and see what happen, take your time to read and understand what is happening, then i can bet you'll find the game very immersive, at least the pve part. Only open your map when you are stuck in an over leveled zone and need to find your way back, just stop thinking about quest hub, forget about them, pretend they never existed in mmos... I'm sure this will help you see the game from an other angle and actually enjoy the immersive aspect of it that is really really nice. Also i think you need at least 20 level to adapt to the way this game is functioning, i think a lot of low level don't played enough to really taste the game, at least those that are not straight up in denial mode.
Why cant the teleportation happen with a magical cast? Why does it have ot be instant without any relation to what is happening in the game world. i mean HOW and WHAT is it in the GW2 universe that waypoints are there and the way they function.
Waypoints are Asura magitechnology, as is pretty obvious by the color and design of them, in addition to the whole... floating rock thing.
They're like a smaller scale version of the fixed asura gates, for personal use, and they can be travelled to by a special Hole in My Pocket (I think that's the name) device an asuran inventor made, which basically attunes to various waypoints as you approach them, adding it to your list of possible destinations.
I admit, it' dprobably be a little cooler if you saw people take out the teleporter device when they teleport away, but that's the official explanation. You're welcome.
Waypoints are Asura magitechnology, as is pretty obvious by the color and design of them, in addition to the whole... floating rock thing.
They're like a smaller scale version of the fixed asura gates, for personal use, and they can be travelled to by a special Hole in My Pocket (I think that's the name) device an asuran inventor made, which basically attunes to various waypoints as you approach them, adding it to your list of possible destinations.
I admit, it' dprobably be a little cooler if you saw people take out the teleporter device when they teleport away, but that's the official explanation. You're welcome.
You seem to know a lot of this stuff . The explanation makes it more acceptable, but still I think the instant teleportation is kind of meh.
Why cant the teleportation happen with a magical cast? Why does it have ot be instant without any relation to what is happening in the game world. i mean HOW and WHAT is it in the GW2 universe that waypoints are there and the way they function.
Waypoints are Asura magitechnology, as is pretty obvious by the color and design of them, in addition to the whole... floating rock thing.
They're like a smaller scale version of the fixed asura gates, for personal use, and they can be travelled to by a special Hole in My Pocket (I think that's the name) device an asuran inventor made, which basically attunes to various waypoints as you approach them, adding it to your list of possible destinations.
I admit, it' dprobably be a little cooler if you saw people take out the teleporter device when they teleport away, but that's the official explanation. You're welcome.
Yeah I agree that it has explanation in the lore.
Still it feel unimmersive for me cause I find this lore piece and explanation silly.
Kinda well....silly (again) is that I find dragons and fireballs immersive and small personal teleporters not immersive right?
GW2 when I play it it feel very much like a game. Very nice game, but it remind me every couple seconds that it is a game. Thus not very immersive.
That does not make it worse game. Just worse 'virtual world' and will propably mean It won't be able to 'hook' me for more than few months. Cause it was immersion that kept me playing UO or old Lotro (not immersive anymore after changes) for so long not gameplay.
Many people think otherwise and they play (mmo)rpg's for long time cause they are great games and for example they like Arenas or Dungeons / Raids or some other things.
Anyway I never expected GW2 to be any diffrent that it is.
If it would be more of a virtual world and less of a game then I would propably could not play it because of CS as CS'es kill my immersion badly and fast.
Still happy that GW2 is beign done and will be released. It breaks with WoW-clone thing, even if not radically, but that still matter. Besides it is fun game.
I just hope that we won't have gazillions of GW2 clones in next years, but that genre will try to spawn mmorpg's that are diffrent between themself and meant for diffrent playerbases.
You seem to know a lot of this stuff . The explanation makes it more acceptable, but still I think the instant teleportation is kind of meh.
It's in one of the novels, actually.
I believe Snaff invented it.
Actually, I hardly ever teleported around....
... until I had to keep up with my friend this beta weekend, because he used it a lot. Which is funny, because he was so mad at Oblivion for having fast travel.
I guess playing Oblivion and Skyrim made him get used to the idea, or something.
4. Progression seems off and inconsistent with the premises of GW2's PvE:
I'd like to point out that I completely disagree with the people saying that level progression in GW2 is fine. I really think it shouldn't be necessary for player to visit multiple starting zones. We are talking about the starting areas here, which are important to creating a connection to the atmosphere in the game and to your character. To me it seems really immersion breaking that after being done in my starter zone, that I directly teleport to another starting area with the same 'starter area phasing' of DEs and hearts in a completely unrelated and different atmosphere. Things need to build up and content needs to be presented in a slowly build up atmosphere to be immersive. Right now the constant jumping between areas makes it feel like super mario galaxy 2. In which an interface is used to play bits of entertaining content that has no coherent consistency. This is bad for an open world fantasy MMO.
This is bad design. I've heard this type of core design flaw echoed all weekend.
My advise is to drop the way you are playing and just go around, put extra attention to detail, try to follow npc that seam to have a goal and see what happen, take your time to read and understand what is happening, then i can bet you'll find the game very immersive, at least the pve part. Only open your map when you are stuck in an over leveled zone and need to find your way back, just stop thinking about quest hub, forget about them, pretend they never existed in mmos... I'm sure this will help you see the game from an other angle and actually enjoy the immersive aspect of it that is really really nice. Also i think you need at least 20 level to adapt to the way this game is functioning, i think a lot of low level don't played enough to really taste the game, at least those that are not straight up in denial mode.
As i am more of a sanbox gamer I'd say i do pay attention to detail. The thing is that the things I noted are actually very small details on the way the game is presented. Things that for me break with atmosphere of the game. I care about a coherent and consistent universe with depth to it. And the telportation, use of interface breakes my immersion with the universe.
I actually did foudn realyl cool stuff in the game. I also didnt all too much about ingame world. What I talk about is the direct connection of the player with the gameworld through the interface.
4. Progression seems off and inconsistent with the premises of GW2's PvE:
I'd like to point out that I completely disagree with the people saying that level progression in GW2 is fine. I really think it shouldn't be necessary for player to visit multiple starting zones. We are talking about the starting areas here, which are important to creating a connection to the atmosphere in the game and to your character. To me it seems really immersion breaking that after being done in my starter zone, that I directly teleport to another starting area with the same 'starter area phasing' of DEs and hearts in a completely unrelated and different atmosphere. Things need to build up and content needs to be presented in a slowly build up atmosphere to be immersive. Right now the constant jumping between areas makes it feel like super mario galaxy 2. In which an interface is used to play bits of entertaining content that has no coherent consistency. This is bad for an open world fantasy MMO.
This is bad design. I've heard this type of core design flaw echoed all weekend.
I guess it's a good thing you can take other peoples opinion as word when you can't be arsed to form your own.
Than again the only people who posted all weekend are those few that didn't like the game.
This is bad design. I've heard this type of core design flaw echoed all weekend.
The problem is they're in the 'bad spot', where they want immersion but aren't used to the GW2 methods of delivering it.
On one hand you have the people who are just totally gaming it up. It's a game. They level up through... gamy methods. Hop to other zones, walk around in little circles, whatever it takes.
Then you have the people in the middle who are sad.
Then you have the people like me who are exploring the hell out of things, doing unique stuff, getting bonus immersion, and enough xp to stay along a single zone (I did human stuff) without problems and leveling up fine.
I'm not sure what to do about people in the middle. I'm sure some tuning will be done. Maybe more DE frequency again, or just higher rewards for them.
GW2 when I play it it feel very much like a game. Very nice game, but it remind me every couple seconds that it is a game. Thus not very immersive.
That does not make it worse game. Just worse 'virtual world' and will propably mean It won't be able to 'hook' me for more than few months. Cause it was immersion that kept me playing UO or old Lotro (not immersive anymore after changes) for so long not gameplay.
Many people think otherwise and they play (mmo)rpg's for long time cause they are great games and for example they like Arenas or Dungeons / Raids or some other things.
This is exactly the sentiment that I tried to translate in my posts. GW2 feels very much like a game. And its a great game. But I want it to feel like a universe, a virtual world I live in. I miss that, and i think some tweaks (to the things i mentioned) may actually greatly improve it.
So let me see, im going to be jumping on my old harley soon and going to florida, hmm the first thing i see on my paper map and or even google maps is POI's and even waypoints (rest stops) guess i should take this map back and tell them i need one that has nothing to guide me on my adventure down the road so i can miss half or more of the POIs and waste time looking for stuff of interest..
There is absolutely nothing wrong with the map just the way it is..
If you really want to adventure blindly you should try unbinding the map key and shouldnt ever use the map or its waypoints..
So let me see, im going to be jumping on my old harley soon and going to florida, hmm the first thing i see on my paper map and or even google maps is POI's and even waypoints (rest stops) guess i should take this map back and tell them i need one that has nothing to guide me on my adventure down the road so i can miss half or more of the POIs and waste time looking for stuff of interest..
There is absolutely nothing wrong with the map just the way it is..
If you really want to adventure blindly you should try unbinding the map key and shouldnt ever use the map or its waypoints..
Sort of like the people who play SKyrim without the compass!
Hardcore! Just shrink the minimap out of the way! That'd be fun. If I had a lot of spare time.
Originally posted by impiro 4. Progression seems off and inconsistent with the premises of GW2's PvE: I'd like to point out that I completely disagree with the people saying that level progression in GW2 is fine. I really think it shouldn't be necessary for player to visit multiple starting zones. We are talking about the starting areas here, which are important to creating a connection to the atmosphere in the game and to your character. To me it seems really immersion breaking that after being done in my starter zone, that I directly teleport to another starting area with the same 'starter area phasing' of DEs and hearts in a completely unrelated and different atmosphere. Things need to build up and content needs to be presented in a slowly build up atmosphere to be immersive. Right now the constant jumping between areas makes it feel like super mario galaxy 2. In which an interface is used to play bits of entertaining content that has no coherent consistency. This is bad for an open world fantasy MMO.
This is bad design. I've heard this type of core design flaw echoed all weekend.
No this is not bad design, the game seam to be build in a way that push you to go exploring. First they will push you exploring the first zone, but then they kind of push you go exploring more zones, at least that's how i saw it. The only thing they could possibly do to enhance that aspect is to put more asura gates at the starter areas, or concentrate them at the very start or put them scattered at the "end" of each zones, whatever.
That's why I always (since I tried playing in first beta) thought GW2 is in certain ways more similar to WoW than many would, and will ever be, willing to admit. Not in a copy-paste way(!) It gives you everything on a silver platter, you only have to follow markers and read tooltips. It esentialy catters to the same playerbase that likes (or liked in past) WoW. It goes past WoW and adds elements from other games (WAR) and tries to make something more.
GW2 also creates groups instead of you and it draws you red circles on floor to warn you of incoming damage.
And that is also exactly why many say GW2 is for casual players first and foremost.
And before fans jump on my statements, nothing of what I said above is negative, it only is (for you) if you want to take it as such.
This is bad design. I've heard this type of core design flaw echoed all weekend.
The problem is they're in the 'bad spot', where they want immersion but aren't used to the GW2 methods of delivering it.
On one hand you have the people who are just totally gaming it up. It's a game. They level up through... gamy methods. Hop to other zones, walk around in little circles, whatever it takes.
Then you have the people in the middle who are sad.
Then you have the people like me who are exploring the hell out of things, doing unique stuff, getting bonus immersion, and enough xp to stay along a single zone (I did human stuff) without problems and leveling up fine.
I'm not sure what to do about people in the middle. I'm sure some tuning will be done. Maybe more DE frequency again, or just higher rewards for them.
i love gw2 but i agree it could use some tuning for less waypoints
using Everquest as an example,
many players hated the EQ expansion Planes of Power because it made travel too easy with the Travel Stones in Plane of Knowledge
personally I liked the added convenience but theres no question it disrupted immersion
EQ didnt even have maps until 2003 -- maps are another immersion killer
other games (including WOW) enhanced maps further w minimaps
maps are just as immersion killing as waypoints (I'd argue moreso) but you are more likely to hear complaints if a mmo doesnt allow maps - because players have gotten used to the convenience of them
my point? can be tough to strike a balance with convenience and immersion
Originally posted by StarISome good points in OP.That's why I always (since I tried playing in first beta) thought GW2 is in certain ways more similar to WoW than many would, and will ever be, willing to admit. It gives you everything on a silver platter, you only have to follow markers and read tooltips.It creates groups instead of you and it draws you red circles on floor to warn you of incoming damage.And that is also exactly why many say GW2 is for casual players first and foremost.And before fans jump on my statements, nothing of what I said above is negative, it only is (for you) if you want to take it as such.
It is negative because you only see at the negative angle, you need to go explore to actually understand how rewarding it is, if you don't do it and wait to be hand held and go only where the mark is you will never see the positive aspect of exploring and will consider it as an "other wow", even though the game is built in a totally opposite fashion. ANd the "automated group" let you play with other without all the negative aspect, force grouping, loot problems, xp sharing problems and all this, so you have to weight things correctly before saying you are or not "negative". To each new thing you will have good and bad. Personally i think both those aspect out weight the negatives you pointed by a large margin.
GW2 when I play it it feel very much like a game. Very nice game, but it remind me every couple seconds that it is a game. Thus not very immersive.
That does not make it worse game. Just worse 'virtual world' and will propably mean It won't be able to 'hook' me for more than few months. Cause it was immersion that kept me playing UO or old Lotro (not immersive anymore after changes) for so long not gameplay.
Many people think otherwise and they play (mmo)rpg's for long time cause they are great games and for example they like Arenas or Dungeons / Raids or some other things.
This is exactly the sentiment that I tried to translate in my posts. GW2 feels very much like a game. And its a great game. But I want it to feel like a universe, a virtual world I live in. I miss that, and i think some tweaks (to the things i mentioned) may actually greatly improve it.
Yeah. I 'felt' that you might mean that.
Well I understand you, but imho you'll be much more satisfied if you just look for 'universe, virtual world' elsewhere in some other mmorpg.
Why? Cause GW1 and now GW2 were / are meant to be very much like a game. It is not something made by 'accident', it is meant t be that way. So even if Arena.net would tweak it a bit more to your (and mine) liking - it would not really be enough and it would have a big chance that it would be made more 'like a game' again in future.
Besides I don't think that Arena.net wants I am certain that they will not sacrifice a game in order to make it better virtual world.
So I propose you mine attitude to whole thing. Treat GW2 like a game, not like your vision what mmorpg should be like.
Then either play it or just don't play it.
I found that trying to change 'design' of a game either just does not work on developers at all or it it works and they 'cave in' for people demands - it actually end's bad for mmorpg itself.
I plan to play GW2 like a game and I will wait for my AA for my 'virtual world' fix. (even though it propably will be worse game in many aspects from what I saw / read about it).
Both of those productions 'scratch my itches' just in diffrent places and one has a potential to scratch it for a longer time.
The "new" animations and shakes of the camera etc. really cemented me into the combat, from a melee perspective you could really "feel" the impacts.
Music I kept nudging the volume up as the soundtrack is beautiful and really gets you into the world.
Graphics were so much better for me this BWE because of the performance optimizations I could run everything high+ with some of the features like high res character models etc. and it ran beautifully in a beautiful world.
The ONLY thing I don't like about the map or "organization" of the world is that once I finished the first zone (human) I had to go and try all 3 exits to other zones to find the one that was level appropriate. Some guidance would have been nice IMO.
I am also concerned about the leveling speed -
I am a long, long time MMO gamer and I BARELY got to level 15 at the end of the first zone with all hearts, all PoI's, crafting, all skill points, and many, many events (a couple repeated) and my personal story chapters kept up with my level too.
If anything they need to increase the amount of XP gain because I can imagine a lot of people who don't 100% the zone will be left grinding/DE farming until they farm enough XP to level up for the next zone - and since most of the XP is from the DE's/quests it'll be a long grind.
While you can fight mobs a few levels above yourself without too much trouble (assuming you keep your gear up to par via auction house + crafting/karma) I forsee many MMO players of recent generations to find the leveling a bit slow and unforgiving.
Personally, I love the added challenge and love that I had to 100% the zone to move on, and the treasure chest of rewards for completing the zone were an awesome touch too.
Comments
Let's be honest here.
Tyria is sort of a sh**hole.
I mean, really, there's horrible things going on all OVER the place. it's like a multi-front war everywhere you go. I just acknowledge that Tyria is a scary place and while it's beautiful, it's like one of those war ravaged third world countries with constant civil wars and roaming gangs with guns.
I think that immersion is one of the defining features of this MMORPG over many previous MMORPGs. Perhaps TSW will have some amazing immersion as well.
But overall, I see immersion as a great strength of this game, not a weakness.
I find GW2 MORE immersive than for example current WoW, Rift and Swtor & many other themeparks.
I find GW2 LESS immersive than Vanilla WoW (when there were no quest gps, teleporting to isntances, automatic everything, dps/ gear meters,etc ) or old P2P Lotro.
I find GW2 MUCH LESS immersive than UO or EvE.
===========================
Well what did you expect though?
It is mainstream themepark. Good, even great one. I enjoyed playing it AND I will play it after release. It is stll better and more or same immersive than CURRENT themeparks.
Still it is made with alot signs, bell & whistles and things screaming "go here" "don't miss it" ,etc
It is MEANT to be like that and this will not be changed.
Would I prefer not to have it? Maybe in forms of some "no hand holding" servers? Sure.
It will NOT happen though.
======================
Good game even very good. Just it's design is not made for what you hoping it would be though OP.
It is more like the real workd is what you are saying. That IS the point. Real Life is hectic hence, GW2 is hectic. I really enjoyed this BWE2. I did notice small little hints to GW1 and it was great to see. The graphics are great and I really enjoyed the way the game felt.
Block the trolls, don't answer them, so we can remove the garbage from these forums
Well, I started playing in this BWE for the first time and after some time I checked the watch on the wall and was like: "WTF 10 hours passed already???!?!".
Thats immersion I believe
So many WTF post here, its just ridiculous. Anyway, to keep the criticism positive i felt pretty much the opposite, the game (pve part at least) is filled with immersion.
Just an example to back me up, i find both relying on the map marker and the "an event is near" announcement to look for something but mostly to check what place i haven't explored and where i should heading, as i did found many really nice and hidden places just saying to myself, "ho look there that seam like something to go check" without opening the map, in fact many nice spot are hidden in caves and underground. So really i don't get what the OP is talking about.
But for many of the complains about this game i will only say something old like the bible "you can see only what you are looking for". I think people are so much brain washed about a way to behave and play mmo its just not even funny, for us that are old gamer and saw pretty much everything, it's probably a lot easier to adapt to a new kind of gameplay. But for the new gen, i think they must miss a lot from the "game is repetitive", "combat is about spamming", "melee suck, ranged is OP"... Now lack of immersion, i mean its one of the most immersive mmo since UO, in fact it is not one of the, but the most immersive, so wtf are people talking about?... I mean the whole world have story happening everywhere and a large portions are linked to each other, no immersion, are you sure you actually put any attention to the world to came with such conclusion?
My advise is to drop the way you are playing and just go around, put extra attention to detail, try to follow npc that seam to have a goal and see what happen, take your time to read and understand what is happening, then i can bet you'll find the game very immersive, at least the pve part. Only open your map when you are stuck in an over leveled zone and need to find your way back, just stop thinking about quest hub, forget about them, pretend they never existed in mmos... I'm sure this will help you see the game from an other angle and actually enjoy the immersive aspect of it that is really really nice. Also i think you need at least 20 level to adapt to the way this game is functioning, i think a lot of low level don't played enough to really taste the game, at least those that are not straight up in denial mode.
Waypoints are Asura magitechnology, as is pretty obvious by the color and design of them, in addition to the whole... floating rock thing.
They're like a smaller scale version of the fixed asura gates, for personal use, and they can be travelled to by a special Hole in My Pocket (I think that's the name) device an asuran inventor made, which basically attunes to various waypoints as you approach them, adding it to your list of possible destinations.
I admit, it' dprobably be a little cooler if you saw people take out the teleporter device when they teleport away, but that's the official explanation. You're welcome.
You seem to know a lot of this stuff
. The explanation makes it more acceptable, but still I think the instant teleportation is kind of meh.
Yeah I agree that it has explanation in the lore.
Still it feel unimmersive for me cause I find this lore piece and explanation silly.
Kinda well....silly (again) is that I find dragons and fireballs immersive and small personal teleporters not immersive right?
GW2 when I play it it feel very much like a game. Very nice game, but it remind me every couple seconds that it is a game. Thus not very immersive.
That does not make it worse game. Just worse 'virtual world' and will propably mean It won't be able to 'hook' me for more than few months. Cause it was immersion that kept me playing UO or old Lotro (not immersive anymore after changes) for so long not gameplay.
Many people think otherwise and they play (mmo)rpg's for long time cause they are great games and for example they like Arenas or Dungeons / Raids or some other things.
Anyway I never expected GW2 to be any diffrent that it is.
If it would be more of a virtual world and less of a game then I would propably could not play it because of CS as CS'es kill my immersion badly and fast.
Still happy that GW2 is beign done and will be released. It breaks with WoW-clone thing, even if not radically, but that still matter. Besides it is fun game.
I just hope that we won't have gazillions of GW2 clones in next years, but that genre will try to spawn mmorpg's that are diffrent between themself and meant for diffrent playerbases.
It's in one of the novels, actually.
I believe Snaff invented it.
Actually, I hardly ever teleported around....
... until I had to keep up with my friend this beta weekend, because he used it a lot. Which is funny, because he was so mad at Oblivion for having fast travel.
I guess playing Oblivion and Skyrim made him get used to the idea, or something.
This is bad design. I've heard this type of core design flaw echoed all weekend.
As i am more of a sanbox gamer I'd say i do pay attention to detail. The thing is that the things I noted are actually very small details on the way the game is presented. Things that for me break with atmosphere of the game. I care about a coherent and consistent universe with depth to it. And the telportation, use of interface breakes my immersion with the universe.
I actually did foudn realyl cool stuff in the game. I also didnt all too much about ingame world. What I talk about is the direct connection of the player with the gameworld through the interface.
I guess it's a good thing you can take other peoples opinion as word when you can't be arsed to form your own.
Than again the only people who posted all weekend are those few that didn't like the game.
The problem is they're in the 'bad spot', where they want immersion but aren't used to the GW2 methods of delivering it.
On one hand you have the people who are just totally gaming it up. It's a game. They level up through... gamy methods. Hop to other zones, walk around in little circles, whatever it takes.
Then you have the people in the middle who are sad.
Then you have the people like me who are exploring the hell out of things, doing unique stuff, getting bonus immersion, and enough xp to stay along a single zone (I did human stuff) without problems and leveling up fine.
I'm not sure what to do about people in the middle. I'm sure some tuning will be done. Maybe more DE frequency again, or just higher rewards for them.
This is exactly the sentiment that I tried to translate in my posts. GW2 feels very much like a game. And its a great game. But I want it to feel like a universe, a virtual world I live in. I miss that, and i think some tweaks (to the things i mentioned) may actually greatly improve it.
So let me see, im going to be jumping on my old harley soon and going to florida, hmm the first thing i see on my paper map and or even google maps is POI's and even waypoints (rest stops) guess i should take this map back and tell them i need one that has nothing to guide me on my adventure down the road so i can miss half or more of the POIs and waste time looking for stuff of interest..
There is absolutely nothing wrong with the map just the way it is..
If you really want to adventure blindly you should try unbinding the map key and shouldnt ever use the map or its waypoints..
Playing GW2..
Sort of like the people who play SKyrim without the compass!
Hardcore!
Just shrink the minimap out of the way! That'd be fun. If I had a lot of spare time.
No this is not bad design, the game seam to be build in a way that push you to go exploring. First they will push you exploring the first zone, but then they kind of push you go exploring more zones, at least that's how i saw it. The only thing they could possibly do to enhance that aspect is to put more asura gates at the starter areas, or concentrate them at the very start or put them scattered at the "end" of each zones, whatever.
Some good points in OP.
That's why I always (since I tried playing in first beta) thought GW2 is in certain ways more similar to WoW than many would, and will ever be, willing to admit. Not in a copy-paste way(!) It gives you everything on a silver platter, you only have to follow markers and read tooltips. It esentialy catters to the same playerbase that likes (or liked in past) WoW. It goes past WoW and adds elements from other games (WAR) and tries to make something more.
GW2 also creates groups instead of you and it draws you red circles on floor to warn you of incoming damage.
And that is also exactly why many say GW2 is for casual players first and foremost.
And before fans jump on my statements, nothing of what I said above is negative, it only is (for you) if you want to take it as such.
i love gw2 but i agree it could use some tuning for less waypoints
using Everquest as an example,
many players hated the EQ expansion Planes of Power because it made travel too easy with the Travel Stones in Plane of Knowledge
personally I liked the added convenience but theres no question it disrupted immersion
EQ didnt even have maps until 2003 -- maps are another immersion killer
other games (including WOW) enhanced maps further w minimaps
maps are just as immersion killing as waypoints (I'd argue moreso) but you are more likely to hear complaints if a mmo doesnt allow maps - because players have gotten used to the convenience of them
my point? can be tough to strike a balance with convenience and immersion
EQ2 fan sites
It is negative because you only see at the negative angle, you need to go explore to actually understand how rewarding it is, if you don't do it and wait to be hand held and go only where the mark is you will never see the positive aspect of exploring and will consider it as an "other wow", even though the game is built in a totally opposite fashion. ANd the "automated group" let you play with other without all the negative aspect, force grouping, loot problems, xp sharing problems and all this, so you have to weight things correctly before saying you are or not "negative". To each new thing you will have good and bad. Personally i think both those aspect out weight the negatives you pointed by a large margin.
Yeah. I 'felt' that you might mean that.
Well I understand you, but imho you'll be much more satisfied if you just look for 'universe, virtual world' elsewhere in some other mmorpg.
Why? Cause GW1 and now GW2 were / are meant to be very much like a game. It is not something made by 'accident', it is meant t be that way. So even if Arena.net would tweak it a bit more to your (and mine) liking - it would not really be enough and it would have a big chance that it would be made more 'like a game' again in future.
Besides I don't think that Arena.net wants I am certain that they will not sacrifice a game in order to make it better virtual world.
So I propose you mine attitude to whole thing. Treat GW2 like a game, not like your vision what mmorpg should be like.
Then either play it or just don't play it.
I found that trying to change 'design' of a game either just does not work on developers at all or it it works and they 'cave in' for people demands - it actually end's bad for mmorpg itself.
I plan to play GW2 like a game and I will wait for my AA for my 'virtual world' fix. (even though it propably will be worse game in many aspects from what I saw / read about it).
Both of those productions 'scratch my itches' just in diffrent places and one has a potential to scratch it for a longer time.
I can't share any of the OP's concerns.
The "new" animations and shakes of the camera etc. really cemented me into the combat, from a melee perspective you could really "feel" the impacts.
Music I kept nudging the volume up as the soundtrack is beautiful and really gets you into the world.
Graphics were so much better for me this BWE because of the performance optimizations I could run everything high+ with some of the features like high res character models etc. and it ran beautifully in a beautiful world.
The ONLY thing I don't like about the map or "organization" of the world is that once I finished the first zone (human) I had to go and try all 3 exits to other zones to find the one that was level appropriate. Some guidance would have been nice IMO.
I am also concerned about the leveling speed -
I am a long, long time MMO gamer and I BARELY got to level 15 at the end of the first zone with all hearts, all PoI's, crafting, all skill points, and many, many events (a couple repeated) and my personal story chapters kept up with my level too.
If anything they need to increase the amount of XP gain because I can imagine a lot of people who don't 100% the zone will be left grinding/DE farming until they farm enough XP to level up for the next zone - and since most of the XP is from the DE's/quests it'll be a long grind.
While you can fight mobs a few levels above yourself without too much trouble (assuming you keep your gear up to par via auction house + crafting/karma) I forsee many MMO players of recent generations to find the leveling a bit slow and unforgiving.
Personally, I love the added challenge and love that I had to 100% the zone to move on, and the treasure chest of rewards for completing the zone were an awesome touch too.