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What is it with these leveling speed complaints on the official forums?

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  • syztecsyztec Member Posts: 114

    I think this is one of the reason why I enjoy GW2 so much because it doesn't need to be a race to the level cap. I started a Ranger on saturday, bypassed the lowbie areas after the first tutorial quest and went straight to world pvp. I was level 7 by sunday evening, it may not sound much but I was allowed to enjoy many aspects of the game without reaching a certain level like in many other mmo's.

    Some players can't seem to see theres a difference between GW2 and other mmo's in regards to leveling i.e,  racing to level cap.

    image

  • I think something as simple as expanding the range with which DEs are shown on the map would help. That way players can see what's happening in their region and go there to help out. 

    Maybe some kind of secondary "Regional DE Tracker"? Something low-profile that can just let people know that, yes, things are happening and you can go help.

    People really do need to realise that you can go to the other areas of the map geared for your level. This will only improve when they open up the Asura and Sylvari areas. 

    I've been in two BWEs now and can't really complain about the lack of content. I do think that the refresh on some of the events was a bit too slow, but ANet are still tuning things during the beta.

  • seridanseridan Member UncommonPosts: 1,202
    Originally posted by zenryoku

    I think something as simple as expanding the range with which DEs are shown on the map would help. That way players can see what's happening in their region and go there to help out.

    You can use /map chat channel to ask for nearby events. The DE range is currently a bit bugged, in Gendarran Fields it shows events that are very far away of the player......

    Block the trolls, don't answer them, so we can remove the garbage from these forums

  • maskedweaselmaskedweasel Member LegendaryPosts: 12,171

    I ended up starting another toon for a few hours on sunday and I spent some of the leftover money I had for EXP boosts to level faster....

     

    That being said, I went from 1 to 13 in a number of hours..   but just as with other characters I leveled in the same zone, I ended up seeing a LOT of the same events,  doing a lot of the same things,  and exploring al the same areas.  It did get to a point where it seemed a lot more formulaic and less organic like it did the first time through.

     

    I do not like the story missions,  and yet,  to level adequately through the game at a decent pace,  I was *forced* to do them.  Otherwise you really have to do a lot of traveling to keep a good pace on leveling, especially because its tough to find out when exactly certain events that give you a good return will begin.  I found myself frequenting some of the higher volume events -- events that kept running over and over again in fairly quick succession... usually the ones where centaurs were attacking and you had to defend...  and I did enough of that to where it felt monotonous.  

     

    I did run into a few awesome events along the way that I had not seen before...  but they were rare events and not useful to level so much.. more of just an offshoot, here and there... much less of consistent content.

     

    Anyway, bringing it back to the original topic,  I did find that leveling felt slow due to me "looking" for content.  Many times I would be done with all of the content until level 8 and find myself underleveled...  I could do the higher level content,  but getting 1 and 2 shotted isn't fun,  so I would have to fall back on doing story missions to balance my level out so I could progress enjoyably.   



  • waynejr2waynejr2 Member EpicPosts: 7,769
    Originally posted by Meowhead
    Originally posted by elocke

    I felt it was slow, personally.  Not due to lack of content, there is plenty of that.  Rather due to the pacing and placement of the personal story and how it is given to you.  It tends to make you want to fly through it and instead of just blocking you from entering the instance at the wrong level you easily find yourself 2 or more levels below the recommended level for them and that's not good as certain classes get roflstomped on their own in there.  Happened to me quite a few times on my Elementalist.

    Now, I was able to finish them when I got to the appropriate level, but I had to do all of the first starter area the human zone and then also do some stuff in the Norn zone to get a few levels under my belt.  While I enjoyed all of the content, I would prefer not having to go to other starting zones just to play level catch up to my personal story.

    Try exploring all of Divinity's Reach!  ALL of it.   :D  That'll boost you up quite a lot, and shove you ahead of the personal story pacing.

    Also, listen to NPCs who try to get your attention.  Talk to them and you can often start dynamic events (I can think of a couple just in the 2-5 level area of the human zone, like the little kid who wants to do a quiz).  ... and honestly, chase every crafting node you can find.  Even if you never plan on crafting in your life, you're pretty much gimping yourself financialyl if you don't at least get materials. :)  That should normalize you and keep you up to date with the story.  If it doesn't... well, not sure what to say.  D:  It SHOULD work.

    Iknow you must be a super genius and smart than the rest of us.  When I say I don't think you should have to visit all the starting areas, THAT IS A F-ING SUGGESTION.  You really don't think I went to other area?  You don't think I didn't explore?  You must really have a high opinion of yourself there. 

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  • Originally posted by waynejr2
    Originally posted by Meowhead
    Originally posted by elocke

    I felt it was slow, personally.  Not due to lack of content, there is plenty of that.  Rather due to the pacing and placement of the personal story and how it is given to you.  It tends to make you want to fly through it and instead of just blocking you from entering the instance at the wrong level you easily find yourself 2 or more levels below the recommended level for them and that's not good as certain classes get roflstomped on their own in there.  Happened to me quite a few times on my Elementalist.

    Now, I was able to finish them when I got to the appropriate level, but I had to do all of the first starter area the human zone and then also do some stuff in the Norn zone to get a few levels under my belt.  While I enjoyed all of the content, I would prefer not having to go to other starting zones just to play level catch up to my personal story.

    Try exploring all of Divinity's Reach!  ALL of it.   :D  That'll boost you up quite a lot, and shove you ahead of the personal story pacing.

    Also, listen to NPCs who try to get your attention.  Talk to them and you can often start dynamic events (I can think of a couple just in the 2-5 level area of the human zone, like the little kid who wants to do a quiz).  ... and honestly, chase every crafting node you can find.  Even if you never plan on crafting in your life, you're pretty much gimping yourself financialyl if you don't at least get materials. :)  That should normalize you and keep you up to date with the story.  If it doesn't... well, not sure what to say.  D:  It SHOULD work.

    Iknow you must be a super genius and smart than the rest of us.  When I say I don't think you should have to visit all the starting areas, THAT IS A F-ING SUGGESTION.  You really don't think I went to other area?  You don't think I didn't explore?  You must really have a high opinion of yourself there. 

    Wow, dude. The guy was posting a few suggestions, that's all. There was nothing in that post that was condescending or rude. Relaaaaaaaaax.

  • I have been sticking to Norn and Human starting areas (don't want to spoil too much).  I noticed this BWE that my new Humans did end up at level 4 having done all hearts and any dynamic events that popped up.  The garrison is tough to do at level 4.  My new Norns never ran into that kind of problem.

     

    I also know that I ignored Personal Story, Gathering, Crafting, and the cities on most of these characters.  I ignored that stuff on purpose (I won't be ignoring at launch)  as I was concentrating on unlocking weapon skills to get a feel for each profession and finally make a choice on my main profession.  I just thought I'd point out that at least to me there appeared to be a difference between the two areas in flow.  The problem could flat out be the garrison itself (too early in the game to have a choke point) or it could be the frequency of dynamic events (I did notice that some of them occurred much less frequently than BWE 1).

     

     

  • Creslin321Creslin321 Member Posts: 5,359
    Originally posted by Wolfynsong

    My problem with the leveling speed is as follows:

    1) I don't want to do all of the game's content the first time around.  People tell me to "go to another race's starter zone."  I say, "why should I have to?  I'm not that race."

    2) People say I should craft things and gain more experience.  Well, I tried that... but I never had enough materials to make more than 2-3 items at a time.  Also, I shouldn't be required to craft just to adventure into a new zone.

    3) People say I should play WvW to level up.  I say, if you're forced to PvP just to level, then there is something very wrong with the PvE element of this game.

    4) The developers claimed that you could play through multiple characters' stories and not have the same experience twice.  Well, if I've done absolutely everything across all racial zones just to level one character, then there is no unique experience left over for the other characters.

    5) The developers also claimed you had a choice in whether or not you would participate in a nearby event when it happened.  News flash - the poor experience gain makes all of them mandatory.  There is no choice involved.

    6) It greatly cheapens the "dynamic" aspect of the gameplay.  It really isn't very dynamic if you go and find the same event again specifically to farm experience.

    7) It ruins any sense of continuity between zones and player progress.  Instead of being something like "oh look, I wandered into a new zone, look at all the new content!" it is something more like "oh look, a new zone, and aaaaaaugh I'm dead.  Guess I'd better go repeat the old content."

     

    Now, I realize that the amount of grind currently in GW2 is infinitely less than pretty much everything else out there at the moment, but it doesn't change my opinion here.  The game would be better if levels were less of a concern.

    This doesn't mean I want a huge experience boost over the current level - not at all.  But if I do all the heart quests in an area + participate in a few dynamic events + get gold rewards for just about everything, then I ought to be able to move on.

     Look, here's the thing...

    Making it so hearts quests only will level you up high enough to complete a zone would probably be a bad thing.  You may think it's great because that means that you don't have to do the content "you don't want to do" in order to level.

    But the reality is that for anyone that DOES do content outside of just hearts quests is going to level WAY too fast.  If, for example, a player decides to craft, explore, do a little WvW, and look for some DE's in addition to the the hearts quests, then they will probably be like 3 levels above the zone by the time they finish it. 

    Consider that they do this for every level tier in the game, and they probably won't even get to the last zone before they are level 80.  They may wind up skipping a zone all together because they outleveled it.

    Personally, I think this is much worse than to have "WoW-levelers" have to go to a different zone (of which there are plenty) in order to grind their hearts quests sufficiently.  Why punish the people that are playing the game it's meant to be played?

    If people want to level on hearts quests only, then they have that option.  They just have to go to another zone to do it.  What is the big deal about that?

    Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?

  • maskedweaselmaskedweasel Member LegendaryPosts: 12,171
    Originally posted by Creslin321
    Originally posted by Wolfynsong

    My problem with the leveling speed is as follows:

    1) I don't want to do all of the game's content the first time around.  People tell me to "go to another race's starter zone."  I say, "why should I have to?  I'm not that race."

    2) People say I should craft things and gain more experience.  Well, I tried that... but I never had enough materials to make more than 2-3 items at a time.  Also, I shouldn't be required to craft just to adventure into a new zone.

    3) People say I should play WvW to level up.  I say, if you're forced to PvP just to level, then there is something very wrong with the PvE element of this game.

    4) The developers claimed that you could play through multiple characters' stories and not have the same experience twice.  Well, if I've done absolutely everything across all racial zones just to level one character, then there is no unique experience left over for the other characters.

    5) The developers also claimed you had a choice in whether or not you would participate in a nearby event when it happened.  News flash - the poor experience gain makes all of them mandatory.  There is no choice involved.

    6) It greatly cheapens the "dynamic" aspect of the gameplay.  It really isn't very dynamic if you go and find the same event again specifically to farm experience.

    7) It ruins any sense of continuity between zones and player progress.  Instead of being something like "oh look, I wandered into a new zone, look at all the new content!" it is something more like "oh look, a new zone, and aaaaaaugh I'm dead.  Guess I'd better go repeat the old content."

     

    Now, I realize that the amount of grind currently in GW2 is infinitely less than pretty much everything else out there at the moment, but it doesn't change my opinion here.  The game would be better if levels were less of a concern.

    This doesn't mean I want a huge experience boost over the current level - not at all.  But if I do all the heart quests in an area + participate in a few dynamic events + get gold rewards for just about everything, then I ought to be able to move on.

     Look, here's the thing...

    Making it so hearts quests only will level you up high enough to complete a zone would probably be a bad thing.  You may think it's great because that means that you don't have to do the content "you don't want to do" in order to level.

    But the reality is that for anyone that DOES do content outside of just hearts quests is going to level WAY too fast.  If, for example, a player decides to craft, explore, do a little WvW, and look for some DE's in addition to the the hearts quests, then they will probably be like 3 levels above the zone by the time they finish it. 

    Consider that they do this for every level tier in the game, and they probably won't even get to the last zone before they are level 80.  They may wind up skipping a zone all together because they outleveled it.

    Personally, I think this is much worse than to have "WoW-levelers" have to go to a different zone (of which there are plenty) in order to grind their hearts quests sufficiently.  Why punish the people that are playing the game it's meant to be played?

    If people want to level on hearts quests only, then they have that option.  They just have to go to another zone to do it.  What is the big deal about that?

    No, thats not it at all,  because each piece of the zone is capped, and you know this.  So even if I'm level 20 and doing a level 5 quest, my HP is scaled quite a bit.  If you are playing for the content, then play for the content... and you will still enjoy it because of scaling,

     

    Unfortunately this only works 1 way, and thats down... if I finish all the heart quests because no events kicked off when I was in those areas and I'm underleveled.. I get severely beaten down when going to higher level quests.....

     

    If I am a high level going to a low level,  I get scaled to where events will be a little easier, but still challenging especially if there are a lot of people playing alongside me.

     

    So they should always error on the side of leveling a little too fast then leveling too slow,  even if its to the detriment of the XP boost.  Better to have access to too much content then too little.



  • Creslin321Creslin321 Member Posts: 5,359
    Originally posted by maskedweasel
    Originally posted by Creslin321
    Originally posted by Wolfynsong

    My problem with the leveling speed is as follows:

    1) I don't want to do all of the game's content the first time around.  People tell me to "go to another race's starter zone."  I say, "why should I have to?  I'm not that race."

    2) People say I should craft things and gain more experience.  Well, I tried that... but I never had enough materials to make more than 2-3 items at a time.  Also, I shouldn't be required to craft just to adventure into a new zone.

    3) People say I should play WvW to level up.  I say, if you're forced to PvP just to level, then there is something very wrong with the PvE element of this game.

    4) The developers claimed that you could play through multiple characters' stories and not have the same experience twice.  Well, if I've done absolutely everything across all racial zones just to level one character, then there is no unique experience left over for the other characters.

    5) The developers also claimed you had a choice in whether or not you would participate in a nearby event when it happened.  News flash - the poor experience gain makes all of them mandatory.  There is no choice involved.

    6) It greatly cheapens the "dynamic" aspect of the gameplay.  It really isn't very dynamic if you go and find the same event again specifically to farm experience.

    7) It ruins any sense of continuity between zones and player progress.  Instead of being something like "oh look, I wandered into a new zone, look at all the new content!" it is something more like "oh look, a new zone, and aaaaaaugh I'm dead.  Guess I'd better go repeat the old content."

     

    Now, I realize that the amount of grind currently in GW2 is infinitely less than pretty much everything else out there at the moment, but it doesn't change my opinion here.  The game would be better if levels were less of a concern.

    This doesn't mean I want a huge experience boost over the current level - not at all.  But if I do all the heart quests in an area + participate in a few dynamic events + get gold rewards for just about everything, then I ought to be able to move on.

     Look, here's the thing...

    Making it so hearts quests only will level you up high enough to complete a zone would probably be a bad thing.  You may think it's great because that means that you don't have to do the content "you don't want to do" in order to level.

    But the reality is that for anyone that DOES do content outside of just hearts quests is going to level WAY too fast.  If, for example, a player decides to craft, explore, do a little WvW, and look for some DE's in addition to the the hearts quests, then they will probably be like 3 levels above the zone by the time they finish it. 

    Consider that they do this for every level tier in the game, and they probably won't even get to the last zone before they are level 80.  They may wind up skipping a zone all together because they outleveled it.

    Personally, I think this is much worse than to have "WoW-levelers" have to go to a different zone (of which there are plenty) in order to grind their hearts quests sufficiently.  Why punish the people that are playing the game it's meant to be played?

    If people want to level on hearts quests only, then they have that option.  They just have to go to another zone to do it.  What is the big deal about that?

    No, thats not it at all,  because each piece of the zone is capped, and you know this.  So even if I'm level 20 and doing a level 5 quest, my HP is scaled quite a bit.  If you are playing for the content, then play for the content... and you will still enjoy it because of scaling,

     

    Unfortunately this only works 1 way, and thats down... if I finish all the heart quests because no events kicked off when I was in those areas and I'm underleveled.. I get severely beaten down when going to higher level quests.....

     

    If I am a high level going to a low level,  I get scaled to where events will be a little easier, but still challenging especially if there are a lot of people playing alongside me.

     

    So they should always error on the side of leveling a little too fast then leveling too slow,  even if its to the detriment of the XP boost.  Better to have access to too much content then too little.

     Personally, I like leveling.  I wouldn't have as much fun doing content in a zone if I was already max level.  So yeah, I think it does matter.

    Even if I can do a level 60 zone at level 80...it just won't be as fun.  I won't be getting any exp, no more new traits to look forward to, etc.

    Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?

  • seridanseridan Member UncommonPosts: 1,202
    Originally posted by Creslin321

    Even if I can do a level 60 zone at level 80...it just won't be as fun.  I won't be getting any exp, no more new traits to look forward to, etc.

    I found going back to previous zones to be a very fun experience. You are getting nice experience, the occasional good drop (drops and experience scale with YOUR level), you continue unlocking your weapon skills as always and of course you finish skill challenges so you get new skills. I don't get your point, with the level scaling you can go anywhere and have fun while getting rewarded....

    Block the trolls, don't answer them, so we can remove the garbage from these forums

  • Creslin321Creslin321 Member Posts: 5,359
    Originally posted by seridan
    Originally posted by Creslin321

    Even if I can do a level 60 zone at level 80...it just won't be as fun.  I won't be getting any exp, no more new traits to look forward to, etc.

    I found going back to previous zones to be a very fun experience. You are getting nice experience, the occasional good drop (drops and experience scale with YOUR level), you continue unlocking your weapon skills as always and of course you finish skill challenges so you get new skills. I don't get your point, with the level scaling you can go anywhere and have fun while getting rewarded....

     That only works until you get max level ;).  I'm basically saying that if they up the exp rate, then many, many players will wind up getting max level before they even reach the max level zones.

    Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?

  • maskedweaselmaskedweasel Member LegendaryPosts: 12,171
    Originally posted by Creslin321
    Originally posted by maskedweasel
    Originally posted by Creslin321
    Originally posted by Wolfynsong

    My problem with the leveling speed is as follows:

    1) I don't want to do all of the game's content the first time around.  People tell me to "go to another race's starter zone."  I say, "why should I have to?  I'm not that race."

    2) People say I should craft things and gain more experience.  Well, I tried that... but I never had enough materials to make more than 2-3 items at a time.  Also, I shouldn't be required to craft just to adventure into a new zone.

    3) People say I should play WvW to level up.  I say, if you're forced to PvP just to level, then there is something very wrong with the PvE element of this game.

    4) The developers claimed that you could play through multiple characters' stories and not have the same experience twice.  Well, if I've done absolutely everything across all racial zones just to level one character, then there is no unique experience left over for the other characters.

    5) The developers also claimed you had a choice in whether or not you would participate in a nearby event when it happened.  News flash - the poor experience gain makes all of them mandatory.  There is no choice involved.

    6) It greatly cheapens the "dynamic" aspect of the gameplay.  It really isn't very dynamic if you go and find the same event again specifically to farm experience.

    7) It ruins any sense of continuity between zones and player progress.  Instead of being something like "oh look, I wandered into a new zone, look at all the new content!" it is something more like "oh look, a new zone, and aaaaaaugh I'm dead.  Guess I'd better go repeat the old content."

     

    Now, I realize that the amount of grind currently in GW2 is infinitely less than pretty much everything else out there at the moment, but it doesn't change my opinion here.  The game would be better if levels were less of a concern.

    This doesn't mean I want a huge experience boost over the current level - not at all.  But if I do all the heart quests in an area + participate in a few dynamic events + get gold rewards for just about everything, then I ought to be able to move on.

     Look, here's the thing...

    Making it so hearts quests only will level you up high enough to complete a zone would probably be a bad thing.  You may think it's great because that means that you don't have to do the content "you don't want to do" in order to level.

    But the reality is that for anyone that DOES do content outside of just hearts quests is going to level WAY too fast.  If, for example, a player decides to craft, explore, do a little WvW, and look for some DE's in addition to the the hearts quests, then they will probably be like 3 levels above the zone by the time they finish it. 

    Consider that they do this for every level tier in the game, and they probably won't even get to the last zone before they are level 80.  They may wind up skipping a zone all together because they outleveled it.

    Personally, I think this is much worse than to have "WoW-levelers" have to go to a different zone (of which there are plenty) in order to grind their hearts quests sufficiently.  Why punish the people that are playing the game it's meant to be played?

    If people want to level on hearts quests only, then they have that option.  They just have to go to another zone to do it.  What is the big deal about that?

    No, thats not it at all,  because each piece of the zone is capped, and you know this.  So even if I'm level 20 and doing a level 5 quest, my HP is scaled quite a bit.  If you are playing for the content, then play for the content... and you will still enjoy it because of scaling,

     

    Unfortunately this only works 1 way, and thats down... if I finish all the heart quests because no events kicked off when I was in those areas and I'm underleveled.. I get severely beaten down when going to higher level quests.....

     

    If I am a high level going to a low level,  I get scaled to where events will be a little easier, but still challenging especially if there are a lot of people playing alongside me.

     

    So they should always error on the side of leveling a little too fast then leveling too slow,  even if its to the detriment of the XP boost.  Better to have access to too much content then too little.

     Personally, I like leveling.  I wouldn't have as much fun doing content in a zone if I was already max level.  So yeah, I think it does matter.

    Even if I can do a level 60 zone at level 80...it just won't be as fun.  I won't be getting any exp, no more new traits to look forward to, etc.

    Then what they need to do is severely up the amount of XP you get from boosts....    I felt this go round that leveling my guardian was extremely boring having to port around and look for things to do because no events were popping in the level range I was in.

     

    I could have gone through the whole "port to another starting area"  or gone through the story missions,  or something,  but thats not what I wanted to do,  I wanted to experience events and work on completing the area requirements,  but ended up having to find something to "grind".   

     

    Just because you like leveling and want to do everything in the area while you're there doesn't mean everyone is like that.  Would this be such an issue of contention if the leveling curve errored on the side of a little too fast?    No it wouldn't... simply because most people would never know the difference... everything would be on par in every aspect of the gameplay....  there is no major advantage over other players PvE wise to get to the end faster, and PvP wise its only a temporary advantage.  

     

    I think the boosts are fine for those that want to focus on leveling a little faster,  but they have to increase the boosts a little more for it to really be worthwhile.



  • XzenXzen Member UncommonPosts: 2,607
    Originally posted by Creslin321
    Originally posted by seridan
    Originally posted by Creslin321

    Even if I can do a level 60 zone at level 80...it just won't be as fun.  I won't be getting any exp, no more new traits to look forward to, etc.

    I found going back to previous zones to be a very fun experience. You are getting nice experience, the occasional good drop (drops and experience scale with YOUR level), you continue unlocking your weapon skills as always and of course you finish skill challenges so you get new skills. I don't get your point, with the level scaling you can go anywhere and have fun while getting rewarded....

     That only works until you get max level ;).  I'm basically saying that if they up the exp rate, then many, many players will wind up getting max level before they even reach the max level zones.

    As things stand now I will already hit max level before hitting the max level zones. They should leve the leveling rate and xp as is or it will be too fast.

  • lathaanlathaan Member UncommonPosts: 476
    Originally posted by stayontarget
    Originally posted by Creslin321

    If you can't tell, this annoys me because I don't want ANET to react to their feedback and increase the leveling speed so that they can go right from Queensdale to Kessex Hills.  What do you all think of this?

    Yeah right like that's gonna happen.  Hello "exp booster pax" in the cash shop!  It's not like Anet is going to undermine their cash shop just to pacify a few players.

     

     

    well, thats a perfect way to do it, aint it? Let the impatient rushers pay - i dont mind if they are lvl 80 on day 1 and cry for content afterwards. someone got to fund this game :)

  • Creslin321Creslin321 Member Posts: 5,359
    Originally posted by maskedweasel
    Originally posted by Creslin321
    Originally posted by maskedweasel
    Originally posted by Creslin321
    Originally posted by Wolfynsong

    My problem with the leveling speed is as follows:

    1) I don't want to do all of the game's content the first time around.  People tell me to "go to another race's starter zone."  I say, "why should I have to?  I'm not that race."

    2) People say I should craft things and gain more experience.  Well, I tried that... but I never had enough materials to make more than 2-3 items at a time.  Also, I shouldn't be required to craft just to adventure into a new zone.

    3) People say I should play WvW to level up.  I say, if you're forced to PvP just to level, then there is something very wrong with the PvE element of this game.

    4) The developers claimed that you could play through multiple characters' stories and not have the same experience twice.  Well, if I've done absolutely everything across all racial zones just to level one character, then there is no unique experience left over for the other characters.

    5) The developers also claimed you had a choice in whether or not you would participate in a nearby event when it happened.  News flash - the poor experience gain makes all of them mandatory.  There is no choice involved.

    6) It greatly cheapens the "dynamic" aspect of the gameplay.  It really isn't very dynamic if you go and find the same event again specifically to farm experience.

    7) It ruins any sense of continuity between zones and player progress.  Instead of being something like "oh look, I wandered into a new zone, look at all the new content!" it is something more like "oh look, a new zone, and aaaaaaugh I'm dead.  Guess I'd better go repeat the old content."

     

    Now, I realize that the amount of grind currently in GW2 is infinitely less than pretty much everything else out there at the moment, but it doesn't change my opinion here.  The game would be better if levels were less of a concern.

    This doesn't mean I want a huge experience boost over the current level - not at all.  But if I do all the heart quests in an area + participate in a few dynamic events + get gold rewards for just about everything, then I ought to be able to move on.

     Look, here's the thing...

    Making it so hearts quests only will level you up high enough to complete a zone would probably be a bad thing.  You may think it's great because that means that you don't have to do the content "you don't want to do" in order to level.

    But the reality is that for anyone that DOES do content outside of just hearts quests is going to level WAY too fast.  If, for example, a player decides to craft, explore, do a little WvW, and look for some DE's in addition to the the hearts quests, then they will probably be like 3 levels above the zone by the time they finish it. 

    Consider that they do this for every level tier in the game, and they probably won't even get to the last zone before they are level 80.  They may wind up skipping a zone all together because they outleveled it.

    Personally, I think this is much worse than to have "WoW-levelers" have to go to a different zone (of which there are plenty) in order to grind their hearts quests sufficiently.  Why punish the people that are playing the game it's meant to be played?

    If people want to level on hearts quests only, then they have that option.  They just have to go to another zone to do it.  What is the big deal about that?

    No, thats not it at all,  because each piece of the zone is capped, and you know this.  So even if I'm level 20 and doing a level 5 quest, my HP is scaled quite a bit.  If you are playing for the content, then play for the content... and you will still enjoy it because of scaling,

     

    Unfortunately this only works 1 way, and thats down... if I finish all the heart quests because no events kicked off when I was in those areas and I'm underleveled.. I get severely beaten down when going to higher level quests.....

     

    If I am a high level going to a low level,  I get scaled to where events will be a little easier, but still challenging especially if there are a lot of people playing alongside me.

     

    So they should always error on the side of leveling a little too fast then leveling too slow,  even if its to the detriment of the XP boost.  Better to have access to too much content then too little.

     Personally, I like leveling.  I wouldn't have as much fun doing content in a zone if I was already max level.  So yeah, I think it does matter.

    Even if I can do a level 60 zone at level 80...it just won't be as fun.  I won't be getting any exp, no more new traits to look forward to, etc.

    Then what they need to do is severely up the amount of XP you get from boosts....    I felt this go round that leveling my guardian was extremely boring having to port around and look for things to do because no events were popping in the level range I was in.

     

    I could have gone through the whole "port to another starting area"  or gone through the story missions,  or something,  but thats not what I wanted to do,  I wanted to experience events and work on completing the area requirements,  but ended up having to find something to "grind".   

     

    Just because you like leveling and want to do everything in the area while you're there doesn't mean everyone is like that.  Would this be such an issue of contention if the leveling curve errored on the side of a little too fast?    No it wouldn't... simply because most people would never know the difference... everything would be on par in every aspect of the gameplay....  there is no major advantage over other players PvE wise to get to the end faster, and PvP wise its only a temporary advantage.  

     

    I think the boosts are fine for those that want to focus on leveling a little faster,  but they have to increase the boosts a little more for it to really be worthwhile.

     The LAST thing I want is for exp boosts to be necessary or even highly desired.  I hate cash shop stuff like that.

    I'm just saying, that I don't see an issue with their philosophy concerning leveling.  I know maybe it could use some minor tuning, but I think their viewpoint is fine.

    If you sample a bit of each piece of content in each zone, you will be the right level at the end of the zone.  If, on the other hand you just want to do hearts quests and ignore the other content, then you always have the option of hopping to different zones to do that.

    Bear in mind that a lot of folks either said the leveling was okay or that it even felt to fast.  So if ANet speeds up leveling, then you are making the experience worse for those folks...it's not exactly a win-win.

    In the end, leveling speed should fall into some kind of happy medium between the extreme power leveler, and the extreme completionist.  Personally, I think that it's fairly close now, though minor tuning wouldn't hurt.

    Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?

  • TheLizardbonesTheLizardbones Member CommonPosts: 10,910

    I had a well thought out post here, but I don't think it's at all necessary.

    Players limiting themselves to a single activity are not going to be numerous enough to require changes to the game's XP distribution. If you only want to do one thing, when the game is designed around picking three or four out of six things, then you're probably playing the wrong game.

    In short, you're doing it wrong and when you're doing it wrong, you've got to expect some problems.

    I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.

  • Creslin321Creslin321 Member Posts: 5,359
    Originally posted by lizardbones

    I had a well thought out post here, but I don't think it's at all necessary.

    Players limiting themselves to a single activity are not going to be numerous enough to require changes to the game's XP distribution. If you only want to do one thing, when the game is designed around picking three or four out of six things, then you're probably playing the wrong game.

    In short, you're doing it wrong and when you're doing it wrong, you've got to expect some problems.

     Well said.

    And really, the game even provides you plenty of room to do it "wrong" and be successful if you really want to.  You just need to go to the other races' areas and you will have plenty of content to do.

    The issue is that a lot of folks are arguing that the game should be designed around the way that they want to play it.

    Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?

  • maskedweaselmaskedweasel Member LegendaryPosts: 12,171
    Originally posted by Creslin321
     

     The LAST thing I want is for exp boosts to be necessary or even highly desired.  I hate cash shop stuff like that.

    I'm just saying, that I don't see an issue with their philosophy concerning leveling.  I know maybe it could use some minor tuning, but I think their viewpoint is fine.

    If you sample a bit of each piece of content in each zone, you will be the right level at the end of the zone.  If, on the other hand you just want to do hearts quests and ignore the other content, then you always have the option of hopping to different zones to do that.

    Bear in mind that a lot of folks either said the leveling was okay or that it even felt to fast.  So if ANet speeds up leveling, then you are making the experience worse for those folks...it's not exactly a win-win.

    In the end, leveling speed should fall into some kind of happy medium between the extreme power leveler, and the extreme completionist.  Personally, I think that it's fairly close now, though minor tuning wouldn't hurt.

    I think theres a big difference between the players who state leveling feels a little too fast, to the kinds of players we can expect to see in mass quantity on launch... but that isn't the point I'm trying to make here....

     

    I don't care of they want to do slower leveling than what I want....  if it means that much to me,  then I WOULD buy an XP boost.... IF I felt that the XP boost was worth the purchase!    So what I'm saying,  don't make it a necessity for an XP boost,  but why not make it actually boost your XP for a substantial amount across all XP gained instead of how it is currently where it feels like just a modest boost from kills.  I just never felt like I was getting the most out of the boost.

     

    This way we both DO get what we want,  if I want to level much faster, then I get a boost,  if I want to do a bunch of stuff I have already done, or what have you,  then I don't have to buy it.

     

    I think it just felt super slow to me because most of what I did, I've already done numerous times,  I didn't see anything new other than 1 event the whole weekend.  I guess in truth,  I wouldn't mind paying to zip past that content afterall.  



  • VowOfSilenceVowOfSilence Member UncommonPosts: 565
    Originally posted by Creslin321

     Personally, I like leveling.  I wouldn't have as much fun doing content in a zone if I was already max level.  So yeah, I think it does matter.

    Even if I can do a level 60 zone at level 80...it just won't be as fun.  I won't be getting any exp, no more new traits to look forward to, etc.

    Then you can roll 2 characters instead, great! Everybody's happy.

    Allowing players to skip content they don't enjoy is a good thing. It doesn't make the content less enjoyable for players who want to do it all.

    Unless you're a masochist and are all like "I love this stuff, but only if I'm forced to do it". In that case - go see a doctor or a dominatrix.

    Hype train -> Reality

  • WolfynsongWolfynsong Member Posts: 237

     

    Originally posted by Irus

    ...I believe people are simply trying to give you options in terms of what to do since you have already decided to avoid other ways.

    ...

    Your powergamer mentality is showing. Normal players don't consider something mandatory because they do not consider experience gain mandatory. We don't worry about it, we just play the damn game. You are tagging the game (i.e., doing the minimum amount at each "quality area").

    ...

    You, sir, are being an ass.  And you're making a lot of assumptions about me which are very much incorrect.

     

    did explore, craft, do a little WvW, beat every heart quest, did a ton of DE's (every DE I came across, as a fact), and reached at least 90% completion in every zone along the way.

    still had to go back and scout out more events (which wound up being ones I had already completed) just to level enough to reach the next zone at its minimum level range.

    Yet you give me this "you're just a powergamer" response.  Uhhhh.... no, I am not.  Firstly, I've played and/or at least tried somewhere around a hundred different MMOs over the years.  Know how many I've hit the level cap in?  Zero.  I've come close a couple of times, but I have never reached a level cap.  I don't find it important.  Does that really sound like someone who just "tags content"?  I play games to have fun.

    When I say I did the content in GW2, I mean it.  I didn't skip anything intentionally.  My intended point in posting was that, even though I went out of my way to do everything I could, I was still underleveled for the next area.  

    Due to this, I firmly believe that every one of my previous points is valid.

     

    Also, I seem to recall saying that:

    1) I don't want a huge experience boost, and

    2) The grind is much lower than any other MMO I've ever played.

     

    Now I'm fine with you having your own opinion, but when you decided to start making assumptions about me, and decided to speak from said ignorance, that pissed me off a little.

     

    Originally posted by Creslin321

     Look, here's the thing...

    Making it so hearts quests only will level you up high enough to complete a zone would probably be a bad thing.  You may think it's great because that means that you don't have to do the content "you don't want to do" in order to level.

    But the reality is that for anyone that DOES do content outside of just hearts quests is going to level WAY too fast.  If, for example, a player decides to craft, explore, do a little WvW, and look for some DE's in addition to the the hearts quests, then they will probably be like 3 levels above the zone by the time they finish it. 

    This is true - raising the experience rate would make some people level stupidly fast.  But does it really matter?  Those people are clearly interested in doing the content, not in leveling.  Hence, being overleveled (and consequently sidekicked down) doesn't make an ounce of difference for them.

    On the other hand, people who aren't interested in being completionist would still be able to progress smoothly through the various zones.

    That said, I don't think you should be able to progress off of heart quests alone.  You should also have to gain experience in other ways, namely DE's.  However, you should not have to hunt down hidden DEs just to advance.

    I'm not advocating a huge boost.  I'm talking about maybe a 10--20% boost per event.  And I'm not doing so just because I'm lazy.

     

  • IstavaanIstavaan Member Posts: 1,350

    most people think heart quests are the dynamic events.

  • aesperusaesperus Member UncommonPosts: 5,135
    Originally posted by Creslin321
    Originally posted by lizardbones

    I had a well thought out post here, but I don't think it's at all necessary.

    Players limiting themselves to a single activity are not going to be numerous enough to require changes to the game's XP distribution. If you only want to do one thing, when the game is designed around picking three or four out of six things, then you're probably playing the wrong game.

    In short, you're doing it wrong and when you're doing it wrong, you've got to expect some problems.

     Well said.

    And really, the game even provides you plenty of room to do it "wrong" and be successful if you really want to.  You just need to go to the other races' areas and you will have plenty of content to do.

    The issue is that a lot of folks are arguing that the game should be designed around the way that they want to play it.

    This is true, but I really only see this problem with people that are straight up trying to 'grind' events. Even if they aren't admitting to that, when someone wants to do hearts, and only hearts, what they are looking for is a mechanic to grind out exp. They are essentially trying to rush to max lvl like they do in every other MMO. So they can then turn around and complain that there's nothing to do. (Again, they aren't going to admit this, but this is essentially what happens with every MMO)

    Finally we have a game that not only doesn't support this type of play, but rewards you for not rushing through content, and what do we get? People who are complaining that they can't rush through the content, lol.

    For starters, the starting areas are just that, starting areas. The world isn't designed around 'okay, these are the human areas, these are the charr, these are the norn, etc. etc. and this gets more apparent the further you get into the game. Hell, even going to the Deissu Plateau (lvl 15-25 norn/charr area) you are already starting to see a mixture of the different races. The world is basically there to explore. If you are trying to break it down into small chunks of content, then don't complain about the content being too small. You are responsible for it seeming that way.

    If you fully explore a zone: do the events, gather resource nodes, do the hearts; You will have enough experience to progress. In this last beta weekend I had too much exp, and I hadn't even touched the norn, or bulk of the charr areas. Keep in mind that they are also adding the Asuran & Sylvari areas as well. That's a lot of content I haven't touched. As it stands, I've seen people get to lvl 30 in the beta, without even touching 1/5th of the content in the beta. There's a lot there, and it really sounds a bit silly to ask a developer to tweak their game for you, when you are deliberately handicapping yourself.

    Further things to keep in mind:

    1) The game doesn't reward you staying in 1 place and redoing the same things over & over. In short, it doesn't reward grinding. There are a multiple systems in play, not just the hearts. There's also the dynamic events, daily achievements, weekly achievements, map progression, etc. etc. Many of these give you pretty substantial exp boosts for doing things like killing a variety of different types of monsters. Finding different types of items, or materials. Exploring different areas, etc. If you want to lvl up quickly, that is really the way to do it. The game is exploration heavy, it's not a quest hub game.

    2) I hate that I have to keep reiterating this but, look at your map completion next time. Just look at it. Are you really going to sit there with ~3-5% of the beta content completed, and complain about lack of content. Really? I feel like this should be extremely obvious.

  • IstavaanIstavaan Member Posts: 1,350
    Originally posted by cooper85
    Originally posted by Charlizzard
    Originally posted by cooper85

    eek leveling.... It just doesn't make since to me anymore. Call it the TSW effect ;)

     

    Really though the one guy said he was 21 at the end of the first beta and he is still 21?!?! That's a steep XP curve right there. That being said before I played TSW, I was one of the people who wanted leveling slowed down when WoW was moving to fast food.

     

    At the same time tthere needs to be meaningfull content at lower levels in order to slow down leveling. Idk leveling is just dumb imo... 

    Right, because TSW doesn't have a progression path similar to leveling in every other MMO game.

    And frankly, level is largely irrelevant in the game, as you are auto-scaled down to an appropriate level for all old content so that it remains challening, so that as they add and change dynamic events, all areas can remain interesting.

    It's not remotely close to this type of traditional leveling. Not even close. GW2 leveling = WoW/Swtor/Rift/all the other themeparks. TSW progression = EVE/sandbox.  

     

    I'm all in favor of you traditional mmos slowing down the leveling speed, but in order to do this, the sub level cap content needs to be good. Is GW2 content rich enough to stretch the leveling experience out 3-5 months?

     

    It sounds as GW2 went the Cata WoW route, level to 80 in 3-4 days. I just don't think super fast leveling serves any purpose at all.  It hurts the longevity of the game, especially a game without an end game.  

     

    Idk like I said. leveling is a dirty word in my book now a days. Blame it on TSW.

    How in the hell is the secret world like eve? you know, im not sure some people even know what they're typing.

  • WolfynsongWolfynsong Member Posts: 237
    Originally posted by Istavaan

    most people think heart quests are the dynamic events.

    Yeah, I saw that a lot during the BWE's.  It's kind of amusing, but also rather sad at the same time.  The misconception might hurt the game's word-of-mouth reputation.

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