Oh hell yes, let's support this game by turning a blind eye to the long list of shit features it has and just praise the few minor things it does right.
By doing so, we will make sure the game sells well and we get yet another decade of spoonfed bullshit MMO's, whoopee!
i would say that next gen mmo combat is twitch based aim based, this is not next gen its tried and tested with a few minor alterations and that pretty much sums up this mmo, tried and tested. In reality we have already tried and tested this mmo our selves with the countless mmos we have already played. Isnt the whole point of a TESO mmo to be like TES? if it misses that vital part of the puzzle then wtf are we waiting for here?
i have no real dobut that TESO will appeal greatly to those who love WOW like mmorpgs and who know or care very little for TES. but for anyone with any love for MMORPGS, thier future and the TES world created by Todd Howard and his team then i urge you to boycott this abomination. If we dont make a stand against this insantiy of SWTOR TOS RIFT etc then how do you ever epxect to see a change in the genre???
next we will all be seeing a TES fighting game like street fighter, Or a TES racing game and you will all eat that shit up like good little drones.
This just shows how close-minded some people are, and, to be honest, how little one should show them respect...
but hey. one's never too old to fight the good fight and bash some enlightenment into somebody's skull so here goes:
Have you played Fallout New Vegas? Have you also played Fallout 1 or 2? What about Fallout Tactics?
3 (well, actually four but I'm taking F1 and F2 together) different games with quite different playstyles... and yet, they are all set in the same Fallout universe!
Of course, some fans may like some game better than the other (me, I favor Fallout Tactics), some fans may not even have played or heard of some of the games...
And yet, what all fans will say is that in each game there is a groovy, fun universe...
Now, I mean I do understand (and sort of respect) your concern for MMOs made out of IPs that should better stay singleplayer games, or maybe co-op, but definitely not MMOs - if somebody were to tell me today that they are doing another Evil Dead game, and this one would be a MMO, I would probably throw a toddler's tantrum like you crying "no you can't you can't you cunt!" because the Evil Dead universe is really just Bruce vs Deadites! - but at the same time look at LOTRO: yes, it may now only be a huge F2P game, not a subscription superstar, but when i first heard about it I was very much like "so you are going to do make an MMO out of what essentially is just the trip of two Hobbits to a vulcano (with some limited support staff)? You know that everybody will be playing Frodo or Gandalf?" And yet - not having played it myself - there is apparently quite a number of gamers playing and enjoying the LOTRO world...
So, frankly I'll call your "TES must stay singleplayer" attitude a huge pile of BS and would ask you to go the next loo as soon as possible to get rid of it! At this point you (like everybody else in the public) knows very little about how much of the TES universe, the TES setting will actually be in TESO. And yet, here is your big call to boycott the game...
You know, you remind me rather much of all those SWTOR haters who say SWTOR wasn't enough SW while at the same time they loved KOTOR 1 & 2...
Anyhow, just one more thing before you should rush to the toilet: your "it's all been done before, boycott this game if you care about the future of MMOs" cry...
man, grow up!
Yes, you may say that the late 90s and the first 2 or 3 years of 2000 saw a good chunk of innovation for MMORPGs (going from MUD to 2D to 3D, PvE to PvP to RvR, etc) but in the last 8 years or so there has really been only one major innovation and that was sadly WoW talking MMORPGs to the casual gamers. Everything else we have seen is either so extreme niche that it only appeals to a very small section of the market or it is really - in the end - rather gimmicky...
So, frankly, if you want to see change, fire up your notepad, start brainstorming ideas and once you have a working model, head over to Kickstarter to get some money! Because otherwise what you'll see is just as with the invention of the wheel: it'll get refined, improved, adjusted but it won't take that leap to become anti-grav pads. Which quite frankly, I'm rather glad of because seeing drivers every day, I'm happy to see them bump into each other and leave some junk on the street rather than those same drivers in their flying cars causing daily meteorid showers to fall on everybody on the ground. ;-)
So, now off to the loo, if you could, please? Thank you.
i have palyed all the fallout games and your missing the point, fallout3 changed the combat system and perspective granted. But think to yourself now. Was the perspective and or combat system crucial to the gameplay of the original fallout? no it wasnt, fallout was first and foremost an rpg with some very basic multple choice options and great player customisation and all the important stuff translated to fallout3 perfectly fine. The game still contained the crucial gameplay aspects of the fallout series whilst improving on many of its then dated aspects.
TESO is nothing like the original tes games it throws out all the features that made the TES games great and intstead keeps all the non essential aspects of the game. For that it is nothing like comparing the change in the fallout series to the change from TES to TESO so please think about what you are typing.
I played quite a few sw games but i disliked kotor and kotor2 im not a huge fan of bioware i thought dragonage sucked and i only played ME1. I played SWG for 2 mnoths at release and quit because it felt like an mmo with a sw skin it lacked that SW feel and excitement i felt like the combat system was better befitting to a star trek theme of think first than a fantasy action based series, were was the twitch based combat. I quit SWG bfore the NGE expansion or whatever and looking back now i think SWG was actually one of the better MMOs i played but because i came straight from UO it felt lacking.
So with all that you have a very incorrect percpetion of me. No i do not think kotor is anything like sw and no i did not play swtor since i was smart enough to avoid it considering the disapointment that was swg and no comparing fallout to fallout3 is nothing like comparing TES to TESO. its more like comparing Syndicate to the new Syndicate game that was released Or comparing XCOM enemy unknown to that announced XCOM shooter. They compeltey switched the genre of the game and left everything that made the original good behind just like zenimax.
Zenimax missed the point entirely. Now if their next game was a shooter based on TES or a fighting game it would be exactly the same just more obvious of a cash in. There are plenty of WOW esque mmorpgs out there do we really need another one? Zenimax most liekly dont care if we need another one so long as they make a profit why would they.
Without the money, what is the point?
What do you think they should of made? Perhaps an Owen centric game, where crafters distribute the loot?
The majority of MMO gamers play PVE, so it makes no sense to shoe horn their rewards thru the least played game mechanic. You say it makes it like everything else, and I say it is a smart game design.
Zenimax has tried to hook the PVP folks up with 3 faction combat. They have brought back open world dungeons. The barking about "same ole same ole" just isnt applicable in my mind.
If you are expecting wholesale change, then look to some indy dev. No investor, in their right mind, is going to let their money pay for a game full of concept ideas. There is going to be repitition of working mechanics, but at least ESO looks to be doing stuff different from the norm since WOW launched.
In my mind, I would like to see a game somewhere on the scale between EQ and WOW. That would give a game some depth, yet not bore folks to sleep. The total world simulation type games belong with indy companies. They have yet to be proven popular, and until they do, they deserve minimal backing.
Perhaps I misunderstood your post, so please correct me if I ASSumed wrong.
Asking Devs to make AAA sandbox titles is like trying to get fine dining on a McDonalds dollar menu budget.
i would say that next gen mmo combat is twitch based aim based, this is not next gen its tried and tested with a few minor alterations and that pretty much sums up this mmo, tried and tested. In reality we have already tried and tested this mmo our selves with the countless mmos we have already played. Isnt the whole point of a TESO mmo to be like TES? if it misses that vital part of the puzzle then wtf are we waiting for here?
i have no real dobut that TESO will appeal greatly to those who love WOW like mmorpgs and who know or care very little for TES. but for anyone with any love for MMORPGS, thier future and the TES world created by Todd Howard and his team then i urge you to boycott this abomination. If we dont make a stand against this insantiy of SWTOR TOS RIFT etc then how do you ever epxect to see a change in the genre???
next we will all be seeing a TES fighting game like street fighter, Or a TES racing game and you will all eat that shit up like good little drones.
This just shows how close-minded some people are, and, to be honest, how little one should show them respect...
but hey. one's never too old to fight the good fight and bash some enlightenment into somebody's skull so here goes:
Have you played Fallout New Vegas? Have you also played Fallout 1 or 2? What about Fallout Tactics?
3 (well, actually four but I'm taking F1 and F2 together) different games with quite different playstyles... and yet, they are all set in the same Fallout universe!
Of course, some fans may like some game better than the other (me, I favor Fallout Tactics), some fans may not even have played or heard of some of the games...
And yet, what all fans will say is that in each game there is a groovy, fun universe...
Now, I mean I do understand (and sort of respect) your concern for MMOs made out of IPs that should better stay singleplayer games, or maybe co-op, but definitely not MMOs - if somebody were to tell me today that they are doing another Evil Dead game, and this one would be a MMO, I would probably throw a toddler's tantrum like you crying "no you can't you can't you cunt!" because the Evil Dead universe is really just Bruce vs Deadites! - but at the same time look at LOTRO: yes, it may now only be a huge F2P game, not a subscription superstar, but when i first heard about it I was very much like "so you are going to do make an MMO out of what essentially is just the trip of two Hobbits to a vulcano (with some limited support staff)? You know that everybody will be playing Frodo or Gandalf?" And yet - not having played it myself - there is apparently quite a number of gamers playing and enjoying the LOTRO world...
So, frankly I'll call your "TES must stay singleplayer" attitude a huge pile of BS and would ask you to go the next loo as soon as possible to get rid of it! At this point you (like everybody else in the public) knows very little about how much of the TES universe, the TES setting will actually be in TESO. And yet, here is your big call to boycott the game...
You know, you remind me rather much of all those SWTOR haters who say SWTOR wasn't enough SW while at the same time they loved KOTOR 1 & 2...
Anyhow, just one more thing before you should rush to the toilet: your "it's all been done before, boycott this game if you care about the future of MMOs" cry...
man, grow up!
Yes, you may say that the late 90s and the first 2 or 3 years of 2000 saw a good chunk of innovation for MMORPGs (going from MUD to 2D to 3D, PvE to PvP to RvR, etc) but in the last 8 years or so there has really been only one major innovation and that was sadly WoW talking MMORPGs to the casual gamers. Everything else we have seen is either so extreme niche that it only appeals to a very small section of the market or it is really - in the end - rather gimmicky...
So, frankly, if you want to see change, fire up your notepad, start brainstorming ideas and once you have a working model, head over to Kickstarter to get some money! Because otherwise what you'll see is just as with the invention of the wheel: it'll get refined, improved, adjusted but it won't take that leap to become anti-grav pads. Which quite frankly, I'm rather glad of because seeing drivers every day, I'm happy to see them bump into each other and leave some junk on the street rather than those same drivers in their flying cars causing daily meteorid showers to fall on everybody on the ground. ;-)
So, now off to the loo, if you could, please? Thank you.
i have palyed all the fallout games and your missing the point, fallout3 changed the combat system and perspective granted. But think to yourself now. Was the perspective and or combat system crucial to the gameplay of the original fallout? no it wasnt, fallout was first and foremost an rpg with some very basic multple choice options and great player customisation and all the important stuff translated to fallout3 perfectly fine. The game still contained the crucial gameplay aspects of the fallout series whilst improving on many of its then dated aspects.
TESO is nothing like the original tes games it throws out all the features that made the TES games great and intstead keeps all the non essential aspects of the game. For that it is nothing like comparing the change in the fallout series to the change from TES to TESO so please think about what you are typing.
I played quite a few sw games but i disliked kotor and kotor2 im not a huge fan of bioware i thought dragonage sucked and i only played ME1. I played SWG for 2 mnoths at release and quit because it felt like an mmo with a sw skin it lacked that SW feel and excitement i felt like the combat system was better befitting to a star trek theme of think first than a fantasy action based series, were was the twitch based combat. I quit SWG bfore the NGE expansion or whatever and looking back now i think SWG was actually one of the better MMOs i played but because i came straight from UO it felt lacking.
So with all that you have a very incorrect percpetion of me. No i do not think kotor is anything like sw and no i did not play swtor since i was smart enough to avoid it considering the disapointment that was swg and no comparing fallout to fallout3 is nothing like comparing TES to TESO. its more like comparing Syndicate to the new Syndicate game that was released Or comparing XCOM enemy unknown to that announced XCOM shooter. They compeltey switched the genre of the game and left everything that made the original good behind just like zenimax.
Zenimax missed the point entirely. Now if their next game was a shooter based on TES or a fighting game it would be exactly the same just more obvious of a cash in. There are plenty of WOW esque mmorpgs out there do we really need another one? Zenimax most liekly dont care if we need another one so long as they make a profit why would they.
Without the money, what is the point?
What do you think they should of made? Perhaps an Owen centric game, where crafters distribute the loot?
The majority of MMO gamers play PVE, so it makes no sense to shoe horn their rewards thru the least played game mechanic. You say it makes it like everything else, and I say it is a smart game design.
Zenimax has tried to hook the PVP folks up with 3 faction combat. They have brought back open world dungeons. The barking about "same ole same ole" just isnt applicable in my mind.
If you are expecting wholesale change, then look to some indy dev. No investor, in their right mind, is going to let their money pay for a game full of concept ideas. There is going to be repitition of working mechanics, but at least ESO looks to be doing stuff different from the norm since WOW launched.
In my mind, I would like to see a game somewhere on the scale between EQ and WOW. That would give a game some depth, yet not bore folks to sleep. The total world simulation type games belong with indy companies. They have yet to be proven popular, and until they do, they deserve minimal backing.
Perhaps I misunderstood your post, so please correct me if I ASSumed wrong.
I don't understand why every individual sets their mind an MMO's specific features and paints them as terrible and bad as if everyone else just automatically agrees with them.
I quoted this because I agree with the point of view here. The industry is not going to have every game emerge after a lengthy development period with every new concept. Game mechanics that are available today and found to be successful are not going to be in a game release tommorow. Some things just can't be added on a whim, it takes time and in many cases certain features need to be implimented from the foundation up. TESO is close to the end of development. They have already made the choices, they made them four or five years ago...back before SWTOR was released or whatever other recent game people are loving and hating was released.
The ship has sailed. Some things can be adjusted and or tweaked, but if people think that Zenimax is going to scrap the whole project and redo it with all new concepts you are going to be permanently disappointed. They took the concepts and the ideas that were huge at the time, they were successful.
As I have said before, four or five years ago most people said "do what Blizzard has done, they are the best,' now they all complain of boredom. We might not see much innovation for a few years yet. It will take time to get new games out that copy Tera, GW2 (not even released yet), TSW (not yet released), Rift, etc. Earth shattering MMO innovation is not going to happen anytime soon unless a dark horse independant developer happens to knock one out of the park.
DayZ is looking good, but it is certainly not all new.
Spin it all you'd like, but when you make a TES game and remove the core elements to "MMORPIZGS" it, it's off the radar.
They might as well call it something entirely different, because it offers nothing for a TES game fan as those games were famous for their gameplay and not their story.
Disregard the notion of it being TES. Base your judgement purely on the MMO and not the title. Still though there is a little bit of TES hidden within just about every development system inside the game, from the weapon system to the block/stealth use. Its hidden but suspend belief a bit like I have and judge the game on its merits and not on "this sint a TES clone". Now if you dont like most of the elements of the game then sure be vocal.
The title looks exactly like almost every other game out there. The block/stealth use, non-public dungeons, no quest hubs, are just minor elements to an MMO, this is exactly like the overuse of voice acting in SWTOR -- a minor feature in an mmo. The main system in TESO remains the same, and that's what makes 75% of people leave within the first three months. You, in your OP, are just falling to the hype once again by putting too much attention to the minor elements, which won't matter in the long-run.
What do you consider the main features in an MMO?
I mean if active Combat
Target lock your enemy, move into range, activate skill to initiate an attact. Instead of "agro" you'll block mobs to prevent them from attacking other party members. You'll have synergized abilities kind of like EQ2 has. The combat they're talking about is no more "active" then most every other MMO.
non-linear Questing
Instead of having quest givers in a town, they moved the quest gives to the actual POI's that the town quest givers would direct you to anyways. They'll have zones, and each zone will be be divided up into areas of level appropriate mobs and related quests. You'll be able to do quests in each area in a non linear fasion in the same way that WoW would have you be able to go to your choice of hub and start questing. EQ2 has quests all over the area, a lot of which don't require have followed any kind oa partern to get there.
There's nothing new about the questing they're talking about in ESO, only the way they're talking about it. The way they're talking about ESO questing is the exact same way you could talk about questing in EQ2.
open-ended Exploration
There is no such thing as "open-ended exploration" in any MMO. I don't know were you're getting this from to apply it to ESO. When did they call exploration open-ended, and how do you make something that can end, open-ended? Did they announce dynamically generated dungeons, or landmass that will provide unlimitted amounts of space to explore? If they didn't then exploration in ESO can't be "open-ended". Open-ended means that something has no end, and exploration in every MMO most deffinetly has an end to it; ESO will be no different.
skill based character skill systems.
You mean a level based class system, with skill levels? They've already said that there are class levels. Combine class levels with skill levels and what you get is skills that will have a level range based on the level of your class, and also dictate what skills become available to you. Otherwise there wouldn't be any point in having class levels. Of course I'm speculating. However, they didn't say it was a "skill based character skill system", only that you'll get better with a skill or weapon the more you use it and that that will allow you to unlock new skills. Sounds an awful lot like vanilla WoW to me. I could use a multitude of weapons as a mage, and I even had a skill level for that weapon that required me to level the skill by using the weapon to become more effective with it.
3 faction siege warfare and elements like dodging and stealth for all classes are not considered major functions of an MMO then I think you've set the bar a "wee" bit to high dont you think?
You mean 3 faction pvp that is confined to a single zone? Or are we talking about the instanced battlegrounds that they said will be in the game? Doesn't WoW also have a single zone dedicated to seige warfare, with resource control and capture points? Isn't the only diference between these two systems that one is a persistant zone within the world, an the other one uses an instance? In the end, it still comes down to a single area to fight in.
And then we've got the one guy that gets crowned emperor based on that person having contributed more then everyone else, and not because players actually chose him to be emperor. Or the part were they said that being emperor actually doesn't mean anything, doesn't give that player any form of control, and is only for bragging rights. Doesn't sound so "major" to me.
Fact is all the features that TESO are promoting have rarely been done and none all at once (cept minus GW2 but we all know its the savior of the genre so we will exclude it for the time being).
The fact is the features that ESO is promoting, along with all the core gameplay, is found in just about every major themepark release in the last 7 years.
Do you think Rift is drastically different from WoW because they took a different approach to class building? Do you think that AoC is drastically different from WoW because they took a different approach to hotbar combat? Do you think that GW2 is going to be drastically different from WoW because they use events to give out quests? Do you think ToR was drastically different from WoW because it utilized dialog choice during cutscens, I almost said cutscenes and then I remembered that WoW uses them. Do you think that TERA is different from WoW because they chose aim based combat instead of tab targetting?
ESO is still built around quest grinding, they've been talking about it for the last couple of weeks now. They haven't been talking about all the divergent gameplay that everyone loved about the ES series, they've been talking about questing.
They've talked about solo personal stories that you do alone.
They've talked about the use of phasing to tell stories and alter the world based on what quest you've done.
They've talked about trinity combat mechanics.
They've talked about classes.
They've talked about single zone faction pvp and instanced battlegrounds.
Some of you people get so wrapped up in the WAY they talk about features that you don't even notice what it is they're actually saying. They have not described anything that resembles an ES game, they just keep saying that they threw in this little alteration to a basic themepark mechanic so that it'll look like something that resembles an ES feature, and you guys latch on to it.
Just because they focus on talking about sprinting and blocking doesn't mean that it's not tab targetting/ hotbar combat. Just because they focus on "no quest hubs" doesn't mean that there aren't quest hubs because they mince words to gloss over saying that they moved the quest hubs (which one of the developers literally said in one of the video interviews "we moved the quest hubs"), nor does it mean that ESO won't be all about "doing quests" to level, like every other themepark.
Just because they very breifly mention that there will be raids, instanced dugneons with standard difficulty or heroic, instanced battlegrounds, or tank/ healer/ dps group composition, doesn't mean they aren't core features of the game. It just means they're intentionally avoiding talking about these things so that the game sounds more like something it isn't.
ESO is going to be a standard themepark MMO, no different from Rift, EQ2, GW2, or WoW. It's being built on the same core features and mechanics as every other themepark MMO, but they're using wording and phrases, just like every other studio does, to make it sound like they're not doing that.
Edit: TL;DR, A themepark MMO that "does it slightly different" is still just a themepark MMO. ESO will end up with the same complaints that every other one gets. It's just more of the same old same old.
Oh hell yes, let's support this game by turning a blind eye to the long list of shit features it has and just praise the few minor things it does right.
By doing so, we will make sure the game sells well and we get yet another decade of spoonfed bullshit MMO's, whoopee!
Excellent fucking idea. Pat yourself on the back.
This. So big deal if they do 1 or 2 things good but 1 or 2 things is not the entire package. It is still not a true Elder Scrolls game and it doesn't have all the goodness of the single player games.
Whoever said "The whole point of TES mmo is to have all the TES elements in it", no. Its an MMO, if you want the core elements that have been changed in the MMO, then play the single player TES games which are debatably the best solo RPG's out there. Could they have replicated those functions in an MMO? Yes, but thats not the route there going, therefore you cannot criticize this game from that perspective as most of the statements being thrown at this game are from a solo RPG perspective, two different worlds.
I havent yet read a single TES fan who has suggested that ALL the TES elements need to be in it.
where are you getting the idea that people are saying this?
All was exaggeration, but the point was rather clear.
Well, if the makers care to take TES off the box, they could make whatever game they want, and no one would care...
But, they are using the TES IP in an attempt to tap the TES fanbase by calling it an "elder scrolls" game, and yet, they are taking out most of the game mechanics that made TES SPGs good.
So, how should those very same TES fans feel about that?
Zenimax can't have it both ways: They can't say "This is an elder scrolls game and if you were a fan of TES titles, you should like this game" and at the same time say "This is an MMO and not really anything like a TES game, so many/most of the mechanics you liked in the SPG games are not going in there (especially when other MMOs HAVE had some of those elements in there)".
In the end, it looks like an attempt to get TES fans to buy a game, simply because it has TES on the box, and nothing about the IP in the box...
Whoever said "The whole point of TES mmo is to have all the TES elements in it", no. Its an MMO, if you want the core elements that have been changed in the MMO, then play the single player TES games which are debatably the best solo RPG's out there. Could they have replicated those functions in an MMO? Yes, but thats not the route there going, therefore you cannot criticize this game from that perspective as most of the statements being thrown at this game are from a solo RPG perspective, two different worlds.
I havent yet read a single TES fan who has suggested that ALL the TES elements need to be in it.
where are you getting the idea that people are saying this?
All was exaggeration, but the point was rather clear.
Well, if the makers care to take TES off the box, they could make whatever game they want, and no one would care...
But, they are using the TES IP in an attempt to tap the TES fanbase by calling it an "elder scrolls" game, and yet, they are taking out most of the game mechanics that made TES SPGs good.
So, how should those very same TES fans feel about that?
Zenimax can't have it both ways: They can't say "This is an elder scrolls game and if you were a fan of TES titles, you should like this game" and at the same time say "This is an MMO and not really anything like a TES game, so many/most of the mechanics you liked in the SPG games are not going in there (especially when other MMOs HAVE had some of those elements in there)".
In the end, it looks like an attempt to get TES fans to buy a game, simply because it has TES on the box, and nothing about the IP in the box...
Consider me not sold, and not buying the hype...
They didnt do that with SWG? Didnt they give us Uncle Owens trading corner, rather than a fleshed out PVE experience? It had jack to do with the theme of the IP. The only thing I remember in the OT even somewhat related was in ESB, when they were placing sensors on Hoth. Sure dont remember harvestors.
It really is a non issue, but dont call out a game, when another was doing it as well.
Quite frankly, I see nothing out of the ordinary in ESO that I wouldnt normally see in a SP version, except for the tab/target, and I have no issue with it. It sounds like the game will have a personal story line, and also plenty of PVE content. Which is precisely what I get from playing the SP versions.
The fact they are giving PVP folks 3 faction is just a bonus.
Asking Devs to make AAA sandbox titles is like trying to get fine dining on a McDonalds dollar menu budget.
Originally posted by Belegmor While i have never played any of the predessor games, I am very excited about this game...if it lives up to it's potential, which many other recent releases have not. I first "cut my teeth" back in DAOC, well before the TOA release. I loved the "Realm wars" and the pride one took in victory; I myself was a Hib. Hopefully, using the DAOC experience, they can expand upon the 3-faction concept and create a great "end game" experience. Imho, after all the questing and dungeons, the PvP in DOAC was better than ANY other game and kept me interested long after the game itself declined. Here's to hope...
I agree, especially coming from 10 years of DAoC. However, most folks won't understand what open dungeons and 3 realms are all about, especially when they see the classes and races for each faction are (drum roll)...different. That alone will confuse them.
Players will log in eventually just to ask which race and class "pwns." Then they will try to figure which combo of abilities "pwns." Then they will have to do that for the other 2 factions. Eventually they will get "pwned" in pvp by a particular class. After they come here to call nerf or what have you, they will make the class and play it until they get "pwned."
Let's hope those people leave so we can have a great community
First before you flame me, look into my post history. Check my Twitter feed (same name). Check the GameInformer articles and Massively.com articles for my responses in the comment sections. Since the first week of May when information started coming out about TESO I have been the most ardent and vocal "hater" of this game.
That was then, now after 3 days of E3 and countless articles, and forums readings I have had a change of heart. Before I begin I will say that I agree with everyone who says TESO only shares the name with the single player RPG's. Thats not to say Zenimax has not tried to work some TES ideas into the MMO version, because they have, although like most I believe they could of done a much better MMO successor to the series.
Ok so why have I changed my mind about TESO you may ask? Well let me list them but first I do realize theres not been one iota of ingame combat footage shown so it could still be relatively clunky or uninspiring. Knowing what I know no about the game I have became very excited and as long as the game is polished and has great production quality akin to WoW or GW2 then I will be thrilled. The only thing to make me even more happier about the game would be if they were to add player housing. Its the one core concept that is missing and I will continue to vocalize my displeasure of housing not being included.
TESO's combat design is next gen. Even though there are classes (which isnt a staple of Skyrim and Oblivion) it does allow any class to use any weapon. With the action bar (hotbar) only devoted to 3 of the 6 hotbar slots then there should be an illusion to hide some of the class based system. I agree with the E3 article that said this system will give freedom of choice to TES veterns while still being comfortable for MMO players who have never played a TES game.
The ability to have active dodging, sprint, and Stealth for all classes also plays into freedom of choice in a class based character system while still staying true to TES games. Plus There’s an incentive to fight intelligently too, as skilled play rewards you with extra treasure following a fight.
Public Dungeons will harken back to the old days of MMO's which is also a plus. I absolutely love open worlds/dungeons and even though it will still have instances (which I hate with a passion) theres still plenty of the open-ended gameplay that is reminescent of TES games.
Removal of the quest hub is probably my greatest reason why I am excited for TESO. I loathe "bread-crumbing" or linear paths from character creation to level cap. Nothing is as detrimental to my immersion as being told "what to do" and "how to do it". Open ended gameplay with open worlds to explore and the re-addition of the TES style compass to show you where P.O.I.'s are at is yet another feature that I love in TES games. Glad that more MMO's are doing away with the traditional quest hub system.
All in all I have grown quite excited about the possibilities and I will await any further speculation or hype untill actual game footage with working systems are in place. Even though I still consider them using the IP as a cash grab I dont mind because at least they are innovating on features that have grown stale ever since the behemoth that is WoW entered the MMO-verse.
You hate Quest HUBs but love the POI , now if you had said I hate Quest HUBs and want to explore fine but otherwise they ammount to the same thing.
Sadly if all this game contains is 3 months to max level and combat then it falls into the same category as all but two or 3 MMOs released in the last 5 years, i.e. not fit for purpose.
Love the Elder Scrolls series very well done.
________________________________________________________ Sorcery must persist, the future is the Citadel
Edit: TL;DR, A themepark MMO that "does it slightly different" is still just a themepark MMO. ESO will end up with the same complaints that every other one gets. It's just more of the same old same old.
The Genre is the Genre and if you don't like it well I don't really care. What is wrong is that most releases do not even fit the original MMO theme, anything twitch based does not need a large world just and Arena and a number of maps.
Any MMORPG that is well implemented ; Has Longevity(2 years +)/Proper Gameplay(Combat,Crafting,politics)/Community then it starts to be of interest.
Do the complaints here really matter , well actually they don't.... Will they illicit smiles from readers maybe but little more.
________________________________________________________ Sorcery must persist, the future is the Citadel
Whoever said "The whole point of TES mmo is to have all the TES elements in it", no. Its an MMO, if you want the core elements that have been changed in the MMO, then play the single player TES games which are debatably the best solo RPG's out there. Could they have replicated those functions in an MMO? Yes, but thats not the route there going, therefore you cannot criticize this game from that perspective as most of the statements being thrown at this game are from a solo RPG perspective, two different worlds.
I havent yet read a single TES fan who has suggested that ALL the TES elements need to be in it.
where are you getting the idea that people are saying this?
All was exaggeration, but the point was rather clear.
Well, if the makers care to take TES off the box, they could make whatever game they want, and no one would care...
But, they are using the TES IP in an attempt to tap the TES fanbase by calling it an "elder scrolls" game, and yet, they are taking out most of the game mechanics that made TES SPGs good.
So, how should those very same TES fans feel about that?
Zenimax can't have it both ways: They can't say "This is an elder scrolls game and if you were a fan of TES titles, you should like this game" and at the same time say "This is an MMO and not really anything like a TES game, so many/most of the mechanics you liked in the SPG games are not going in there (especially when other MMOs HAVE had some of those elements in there)".
In the end, it looks like an attempt to get TES fans to buy a game, simply because it has TES on the box, and nothing about the IP in the box...
Consider me not sold, and not buying the hype...
They didnt do that with SWG? Didnt they give us Uncle Owens trading corner, rather than a fleshed out PVE experience? It had jack to do with the theme of the IP.
Actually it had everything to do with the IP because before the prequel trilogy the Star Wars Universe wasnt just based on jedi being the most powerful thing known to man, a bounty hunter could kill just as effectively, a smuggler could outsmart a sith lord, a dancer could choke Jabba the hutt to death, and a few bothans could die to bring down an entire empire. Star Wars atthat time in the IP WAS about EVERYONE not just jedis. And even though Uncle Owen may have been the lowest on the list he still died defending luke, a kid that wasnt even his own, and played hisown part in the saga.
Say what you want about SWG but it stayed true to the lore of the era it was based on. It didnt Cut corners like ESO or TOR and set the game THOUSANDS of years before anything happened in thes stories and you know why? Cause the developers obviously cared about continuity and were willing to make the game appropriately, how it was represented n the stories we grew up enjoying for hours. And you know what the devs did beyond that? Yes Your right they made up classes and even put Tera Kasi into the story which was Expanded universe star Wars, along with the Chiss. But they did so without trying to break the boundries of what made it Star Wars.
ESO has NO CONTINUITY! They are locking 3 races per faction, which was NEVER represented in ANY of the ES games, they are taking away imperials as a race all together, which defiently wasnt a race to give up Lore wise. On top of all this the game doesnt have a Mature setting, no blood, obviously no links to slavery or sexuality or any other Taboo subject. AND just to make it into a great well rounded package, You cant even freely develop skills as you explore the game.
Im sorry you can say your an ES fan and that you dont care about those other things, but I can garuntee the one thing that nobody expects from an Elder Scrolls games for is being limited to One class doing One job. Yes they have said its going to be loose what weapons you can weild, but that doesnt cahnge the fact that if I start off as a mage, im never going to be a warrior someday if I want, or Im never going to get better at jumping simply by doing the action of jumping, or getting better at fighting with axes through actually participating in battle with an axe!
No one asking for ESO to make everyone "Owens", because the game is about heroes, but its about being the hero YOU want to be, its an individualist's game, and now its just going to be another linear ride for EVERYONE YAY!!! Lets market Everything and never take risks woohoo!
Youknow whats funny is all the people saying if your an investor your not going to put your money on a concept thats neverbeen tried or hasnt ever worked???
So none of you have ever heard of a bull market economy??? Taking risks is the EXACT way people make money in the stock market, but thats when they want the risk cause they want to win big, thatswhen they have full confidence in what theyare doing no matter what. ESO has no confidence, you can see it from the horrible awkward look Paul Sage always has on his face. Watch the yogscast video with him and you can tell how off guard he is whenever they ask him a question, he does good with people who are being payed by G4 or IGN to be straightforward and not throw any lowballers his way, but when you see him with th yogscast guys (Real down to earth gamers).
Whoever said "The whole point of TES mmo is to have all the TES elements in it", no. Its an MMO, if you want the core elements that have been changed in the MMO, then play the single player TES games which are debatably the best solo RPG's out there. Could they have replicated those functions in an MMO? Yes, but thats not the route there going, therefore you cannot criticize this game from that perspective as most of the statements being thrown at this game are from a solo RPG perspective, two different worlds.
I havent yet read a single TES fan who has suggested that ALL the TES elements need to be in it.
where are you getting the idea that people are saying this?
All was exaggeration, but the point was rather clear.
Well, if the makers care to take TES off the box, they could make whatever game they want, and no one would care...
But, they are using the TES IP in an attempt to tap the TES fanbase by calling it an "elder scrolls" game, and yet, they are taking out most of the game mechanics that made TES SPGs good.
So, how should those very same TES fans feel about that?
Zenimax can't have it both ways: They can't say "This is an elder scrolls game and if you were a fan of TES titles, you should like this game" and at the same time say "This is an MMO and not really anything like a TES game, so many/most of the mechanics you liked in the SPG games are not going in there (especially when other MMOs HAVE had some of those elements in there)".
In the end, it looks like an attempt to get TES fans to buy a game, simply because it has TES on the box, and nothing about the IP in the box...
Consider me not sold, and not buying the hype...
They didnt do that with SWG? Didnt they give us Uncle Owens trading corner, rather than a fleshed out PVE experience? It had jack to do with the theme of the IP.
Actually it had everything to do with the IP because before the prequel trilogy the Star Wars Universe wasnt just based on jedi being the most powerful thing known to man, a bounty hunter could kill just as effectively, a smuggler could outsmart a sith lord, a dancer could choke Jabba the hutt to death, and a few bothans could die to bring down an entire empire. Star Wars atthat time in the IP WAS about EVERYONE not just jedis. And even though Uncle Owen may have been the lowest on the list he still died defending luke, a kid that wasnt even his own, and played hisown part in the saga.
Say what you want about SWG but it stayed true to the lore of the era it was based on. It didnt Cut corners like ESO or TOR and set the game THOUSANDS of years before anything happened in thes stories and you know why? Cause the developers obviously cared about continuity and were willing to make the game appropriately, how it was represented n the stories we grew up enjoying for hours. And you know what the devs did beyond that? Yes Your right they made up classes and even put Tera Kasi into the story which was Expanded universe star Wars, along with the Chiss. But they did so without trying to break the boundries of what made it Star Wars.
ESO has NO CONTINUITY! They are locking 3 races per faction, which was NEVER represented in ANY of the ES games, they are taking away imperials as a race all together, which defiently wasnt a race to give up Lore wise. On top of all this the game doesnt have a Mature setting, no blood, obviously no links to slavery or sexuality or any other Taboo subject. AND just to make it into a great well rounded package, You cant even freely develop skills as you explore the game.
Im sorry you can say your an ES fan and that you dont care about those other things, but I can garuntee the one thing that nobody expects from an Elder Scrolls games for is being limited to One class doing One job. Yes they have said its going to be loose what weapons you can weild, but that doesnt cahnge the fact that if I start off as a mage, im never going to be a warrior someday if I want, or Im never going to get better at jumping simply by doing the action of jumping, or getting better at fighting with axes through actually participating in battle with an axe!
No one asking for ESO to make everyone "Owens", because the game is about heroes, but its about being the hero YOU want to be, its an individualist's game, and now its just going to be another linear ride for EVERYONE YAY!!! Lets market Everything and never take risks woohoo!
Youknow whats funny is all the people saying if your an investor your not going to put your money on a concept thats neverbeen tried or hasnt ever worked???
So none of you have ever heard of a bull market economy??? Taking risks is the EXACT way people make money in the stock market, but thats when they want the risk cause they want to win big, thatswhen they have full confidence in what theyare doing no matter what. ESO has no confidence, you can see it from the horrible awkward look Paul Sage always has on his face. Watch the yogscast video with him and you can tell how off guard he is whenever they ask him a question, he does good with people who are being payed by G4 or IGN to be straightforward and not throw any lowballers his way, but when you see him with th yogscast guys (Real down to earth gamers).
Really? It stayed true to the lore?
Smugglers that dont smuggle. Jedi that far outnumber the amount that were supposed to be around? Luke taking a break from battling Vader so he can sit in front of an ent?
No, it didnt stay true to the IP. The OT was about adventure, it had jack n shit to do with the 15 mins total screen time,spread across 3 movies, given to docs/ents, and Owen, and yet they were very much central to SWG.
I just dont get why you MMO sandboxers dont get together, and kickstart the game you guys want. Invest YOUR money, if it is such a good thing. Quit trying to spends other folks money. You can either play what is made, or look elsewhere. What ya wont get is this game being made the way you think it should be.
Asking Devs to make AAA sandbox titles is like trying to get fine dining on a McDonalds dollar menu budget.
Whoever said "The whole point of TES mmo is to have all the TES elements in it", no. Its an MMO, if you want the core elements that have been changed in the MMO, then play the single player TES games which are debatably the best solo RPG's out there. Could they have replicated those functions in an MMO? Yes, but thats not the route there going, therefore you cannot criticize this game from that perspective as most of the statements being thrown at this game are from a solo RPG perspective, two different worlds.
I havent yet read a single TES fan who has suggested that ALL the TES elements need to be in it.
where are you getting the idea that people are saying this?
All was exaggeration, but the point was rather clear.
Well, if the makers care to take TES off the box, they could make whatever game they want, and no one would care...
But, they are using the TES IP in an attempt to tap the TES fanbase by calling it an "elder scrolls" game, and yet, they are taking out most of the game mechanics that made TES SPGs good.
So, how should those very same TES fans feel about that?
Zenimax can't have it both ways: They can't say "This is an elder scrolls game and if you were a fan of TES titles, you should like this game" and at the same time say "This is an MMO and not really anything like a TES game, so many/most of the mechanics you liked in the SPG games are not going in there (especially when other MMOs HAVE had some of those elements in there)".
In the end, it looks like an attempt to get TES fans to buy a game, simply because it has TES on the box, and nothing about the IP in the box...
Consider me not sold, and not buying the hype...
They didnt do that with SWG? Didnt they give us Uncle Owens trading corner, rather than a fleshed out PVE experience? It had jack to do with the theme of the IP. The only thing I remember in the OT even somewhat related was in ESB, when they were placing sensors on Hoth. Sure dont remember harvestors.
It really is a non issue, but dont call out a game, when another was doing it as well.
Here's the difference:
SW was primarily a movie IP, people played SWG in the SW world, there was nothing to feel let down about in so far as the gameplay did not stay true to the IP, because the IP was movie based and had no gameplay.
TES on the otherhand is different. TESO is being based on the IP of already existing comp games, and further, games that have a consistant set of features and gameplay elements, which the TESO game is clearly and intentionaly deviating from.
Not all SW fans would object to SWG based on the gameplay, because there was no expectation that it would play in any given way.
When TES fans look at TESO, they expect a game to be like "the elder scrolls" games, because that is what the IP is. And mostly what TESO will not be, according to the devs themselves. Otherwise, the damn devs should not even bother trying to use the TES IP and a gimmick to sell boxes.
(And for the record, there was nothing wrong with the PvE in original SWG, and in the later game, it was not even possible to plant harvesters on Hoth, that was an instanced only planet... although I do recall seeing mosture harvestors on Tat and "fusion power generators" on Hoth in the movies...)
Whoever said "The whole point of TES mmo is to have all the TES elements in it", no. Its an MMO, if you want the core elements that have been changed in the MMO, then play the single player TES games which are debatably the best solo RPG's out there. Could they have replicated those functions in an MMO? Yes, but thats not the route there going, therefore you cannot criticize this game from that perspective as most of the statements being thrown at this game are from a solo RPG perspective, two different worlds.
I havent yet read a single TES fan who has suggested that ALL the TES elements need to be in it.
where are you getting the idea that people are saying this?
All was exaggeration, but the point was rather clear.
Well, if the makers care to take TES off the box, they could make whatever game they want, and no one would care...
But, they are using the TES IP in an attempt to tap the TES fanbase by calling it an "elder scrolls" game, and yet, they are taking out most of the game mechanics that made TES SPGs good.
So, how should those very same TES fans feel about that?
Zenimax can't have it both ways: They can't say "This is an elder scrolls game and if you were a fan of TES titles, you should like this game" and at the same time say "This is an MMO and not really anything like a TES game, so many/most of the mechanics you liked in the SPG games are not going in there (especially when other MMOs HAVE had some of those elements in there)".
In the end, it looks like an attempt to get TES fans to buy a game, simply because it has TES on the box, and nothing about the IP in the box...
Consider me not sold, and not buying the hype...
They didnt do that with SWG? Didnt they give us Uncle Owens trading corner, rather than a fleshed out PVE experience? It had jack to do with the theme of the IP. The only thing I remember in the OT even somewhat related was in ESB, when they were placing sensors on Hoth. Sure dont remember harvestors.
It really is a non issue, but dont call out a game, when another was doing it as well.
Here's the difference:
SW was primarily a movie IP, people played SWG in the SW world, there was nothing to feel let down about in so far as the gameplay did not stay true to the IP, because the IP was movie based and had no gameplay.
TES on the otherhand is different. TESO is being based on the IP of already existing comp games, and further, games that have a consistant set of features and gameplay elements, which the TESO game is clearly and intentionaly deviating from.
Not all SW fans would object to SWG based on the gameplay, because there was no expectation that it would play in any given way.
When TES fans look at TESO, they expect a game to be like "the elder scrolls" games, because that is what the IP is. And mostly what TESO will not be, according to the devs themselves. Otherwise, the damn devs should not even bother trying to use the TES IP and a gimmick to sell boxes.
(And for the record, there was nothing wrong with the PvE in original SWG, and in the later game, it was not even possible to plant harvesters on Hoth, that was an instanced only planet... although I do recall seeing mosture harvestors on Tat and "fusion power generators" on Hoth in the movies...)
Look man, I am really trying to keep it civil here. So I hope you arent taking it personal like.
That said, you have to be fucking kidding me to state that PVE in SWG was cool. PVE in EQ was cool.....PVE in SWg was an afterthought. Kostor reserved the land for housing/harvestors. The mention of moisture evaperators was cute....how much screen time was that again?
The power generators? Those got violated faster than most posters would be if they spent a night in prison. Once again, the SW IP sold to us in the 70s/80s was action/adventure.....not "thank you for shopping at Owen-Mart."
No expectattions on a SW game? How many video games were centered on Owen prior to SWG?
Cmon man, you are defending one, and saying dont do it to another. There is nothing wrong with them doing what theyre doing except in certain folks minds.
I have no dog in this show, as I wont be playing ESO. That said, I think several of you are way the fuck off base. When they change the SP games, then you have cause for concern IMO, and I will be right there with ya saying something. Yet when I do, it wont be with pitch forks out.
Asking Devs to make AAA sandbox titles is like trying to get fine dining on a McDonalds dollar menu budget.
Well, if the makers care to take TES off the box, they could make whatever game they want, and no one would care...
But, they are using the TES IP in an attempt to tap the TES fanbase by calling it an "elder scrolls" game, and yet, they are taking out most of the game mechanics that made TES SPGs good.
So, how should those very same TES fans feel about that?
Zenimax can't have it both ways: They can't say "This is an elder scrolls game and if you were a fan of TES titles, you should like this game" and at the same time say "This is an MMO and not really anything like a TES game, so many/most of the mechanics you liked in the SPG games are not going in there (especially when other MMOs HAVE had some of those elements in there)".
In the end, it looks like an attempt to get TES fans to buy a game, simply because it has TES on the box, and nothing about the IP in the box...
Consider me not sold, and not buying the hype...
They didnt do that with SWG? Didnt they give us Uncle Owens trading corner, rather than a fleshed out PVE experience? It had jack to do with the theme of the IP. The only thing I remember in the OT even somewhat related was in ESB, when they were placing sensors on Hoth. Sure dont remember harvestors.
It really is a non issue, but dont call out a game, when another was doing it as well.
Here's the difference:
SW was primarily a movie IP, people played SWG in the SW world, there was nothing to feel let down about in so far as the gameplay did not stay true to the IP, because the IP was movie based and had no gameplay.
TES on the otherhand is different. TESO is being based on the IP of already existing comp games, and further, games that have a consistant set of features and gameplay elements, which the TESO game is clearly and intentionaly deviating from.
Not all SW fans would object to SWG based on the gameplay, because there was no expectation that it would play in any given way.
When TES fans look at TESO, they expect a game to be like "the elder scrolls" games, because that is what the IP is. And mostly what TESO will not be, according to the devs themselves. Otherwise, the damn devs should not even bother trying to use the TES IP and a gimmick to sell boxes.
(And for the record, there was nothing wrong with the PvE in original SWG, and in the later game, it was not even possible to plant harvesters on Hoth, that was an instanced only planet... although I do recall seeing mosture harvestors on Tat and "fusion power generators" on Hoth in the movies...)
That said, you have to be fucking kidding me to state that PVE in SWG was cool. PVE in EQ was cool.....PVE in SWg was an afterthought. Kostor reserved the land for housing/harvestors. The mention of moisture evaperators was cute....how much screen time was that again?
The power generators? Those got violated faster than most posters would be if they spent a night in prison. Once again, the SW IP sold to us in the 70s/80s was action/adventure.....not "thank you for shopping at Owen-Mart."
No expectattions on a SW game? How many video games were centered on Owen prior to SWG?
I have no dog in this show, as I wont be playing ESO. That said, I think several of you are way the fuck off base. When they change the SP games, then you have cause for concern IMO, and I will be right there with ya saying something. Yet when I do, it wont be with pitch forks out.
Whatever man, it is easily known by your post history that you didn't like SWG much, and maybe you don't like games with a heavy economic sideand that's fine, but no can say SWG didn't reflect the world you saw in the movies (even if you wanted to be Uncle Owen), i.e. sticking to the IP as much as they could when MAKING A COMPUTER GAME.
The difference with TESO is they ALREADY have the computer games and game play, and that IS the IP, and fans of that kind of play are looking for that. And that is what these Zenimax guys are counting on to sell box: the TES gameplay that fans like enough to buy millions and millions of boxes. Only problem it is not going to be in TESO, and they have said that.
Think TES fans play that series because of the story or characters? Not effin likely.
And that is the whole and entire point: The elder scrolls game mechanics and gameplay people liked enough to buy millions of copies of, will definitively NOT be in the game these Zenimax guys are putting out.
And that is fair criticism, because it is they that want to put TES on the box, but not in the box.
(And I liked guildhunting Krayts in the old days, with the 20 man groups - was risky, and the NS elders and the rest, while the PvE was not spectacular in SWG, it had its good points... and DJMs in the old days when they could wipe a group like nothing, those were cool)
If it was something really different it would have come out in their first brag reveal when they expected a huge positive reaction ,but instead got a backlash of huge disappointment. Ever since then they've been back peddling with a lot of spin.
How ever they spin it the backbone and foundation of this game is based on the WOW era a lot have become jaded with. TES will release and shrink down to yet another niche MMO fighting for subs.
It will be another Warhammer online all over again! TES players want TES and not World of Elders Scrolls with a 3 out of 10 for innovation. When will suits realize it more of a gamble to copy than to risk the development money on something that's pushing the boat out with innovation and fresh ideas in this day an age?
The difference with TESO is they ALREADY have the computer games and game play, and that IS the IP, and fans of that kind of play are looking for that. And that is what these Zenimax guys are counting on to sell box: the TES gameplay that fans like enough to buy millions and millions of boxes. Only problem it is not going to be in TESO, and they have said that.
Think TES fans play that series because of the story or characters? Not effin likely.
And that is the whole and entire point: The elder scrolls game mechanics and gameplay people liked enough to buy millions of copies of, will definitively NOT be in the game these Zenimax guys are putting out.
And that is fair criticism, because it is they that want to put TES on the box, but not in the box.
(And I liked guildhunting Krayts in the old days, with the 20 man groups - was risky, and the NS elders and the rest, while the PvE was not spectacular in SWG, it had its good points... and DJMs in the old days when they could wipe a group like nothing, those were cool)
word:
I play TES for the game play. I have a big fan, have played hunderns of hours of Morrowind and Skyrim and I really have no idea what the story line is. I usually try to do few quests.
What TES Online is to the TES series is similar to making Darth Vader the good guy in in SWG.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
I have read many though not all of the posts in this thread. And while I agree with some, I also understand the point of view of the others. However, no matter what the opinion, NO ONE is going to find if they truly like the game UNTIL they get their hands on it. All we are going to see until then is a lot of HYPE and speculation and opinion. All of those are fine but they are not enough to become so emotionally invested into what is currently effectively vapor-ware. And before one of those emotionally invested person jumps on that "vapor-ware" comment, understand I am not saying it will be vapor-ware. I am saying you have not got your hands on the finished product. So, ease ups folks.
I have read many though not all of the posts in this thread. And while I agree with some, I also understand the point of view of the others. However, no matter what the opinion, NO ONE is going to find if they truly like the game UNTIL they get their hands on it. All we are going to see until then is a lot of HYPE and speculation and opinion. All of those are fine but they are not enough to become so emotionally invested into what is currently effectively vapor-ware. And before one of those emotionally invested person jumps on that "vapor-ware" comment, understand I am not saying it will be vapor-ware. I am saying you have not got your hands on the finished product. So, ease ups folks.
There are hyper specific items that we do know before the game comes out.
taking a movie for example:
interviewer: 'so your next Dark Knight movie will have some action scenes?'
producer:'no this one will not have any action scenes at all we cant really do that the way viewers want'
given that its not exactly an unreasonable stretch to assume that the movie will not have action scenes.
Just like TES Online will not be in FPS view, will not have FPS combat, will not have player housing, will be classed FOCUSED and will have forced factions.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Edit: TL;DR, A themepark MMO that "does it slightly different" is still just a themepark MMO. ESO will end up with the same complaints that every other one gets. It's just more of the same old same old.
The Genre is the Genre and if you don't like it well I don't really care.
Developers and players alike have been using this excuse for I don't know how long. The genre of MMO's doesn't have to be limited to tab targeting, quest hubbing, instanced or regulated PvP, action bars, raiding or dungeon crawling. It's okay that titles have different mechanics, there's nothing to be afraid of.
"This is life! We suffer and slave and expire. That's it!" -Bernard Black (Dylan Moran)
Edit: TL;DR, A themepark MMO that "does it slightly different" is still just a themepark MMO. ESO will end up with the same complaints that every other one gets. It's just more of the same old same old.
The Genre is the Genre and if you don't like it well I don't really care.
Developers and players alike have been using this excuse for I don't know how long. The genre of MMO's doesn't have to be limited to tab targeting, quest hubbing, instanced or regulated PvP, action bars, raiding or dungeon crawling. It's okay that titles have different mechanics, there's nothing to be afraid of.
not only does it not have to be it isnt depsite what anyone says. There are RPG MMOs out there that do not do that.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Edit: TL;DR, A themepark MMO that "does it slightly different" is still just a themepark MMO. ESO will end up with the same complaints that every other one gets. It's just more of the same old same old.
The Genre is the Genre and if you don't like it well I don't really care. What is wrong is that most releases do not even fit the original MMO theme, anything twitch based does not need a large world just and Arena and a number of maps.
Any MMORPG that is well implemented ; Has Longevity(2 years +)/Proper Gameplay(Combat,Crafting,politics)/Community then it starts to be of interest.
Do the complaints here really matter , well actually they don't.... Will they illicit smiles from readers maybe but little more.
I'm not really sure I understand the intent of your post here, or what it is that you're trying to convey.
I have no problem with themepark MMOs as long as they're good, but I do understand that there is a pretty big flaw in them. Longevity is entirely based on the developers ability to produce new content, and then to create content that is fresh so that it doesn't appeal to a single group of players. Very few themeparks seem capable of doing this.
Blizzard is learning, that's why they're doing things like Pokepets in the next expansin, and why they've diversified their pvp battleground options.
Trion is learning, that's why they're doing the 3 faction pvp and housing slivers.
But in the end it doesn't matter how much you diversify the gameplay or how much new content you put out to increase the longevity of the game. In the end a themepark MMO is a themepark MMO. You can't really point to one and say that it's nothing like another. They're very rigid in their structure. Level to max level, do end game or not, partake in whatever diversions or minigames they have to offer.
ESO has the same questing you find in EQ2, the same style of combat you find in GW/ GW2, oblivion gates that you find in Rift, solo storylines that you find in ToR, 3 faction pvp that you find in DAoC.
People are going to play it, they are going to walk away from it after a short period of time, and they ARE going to say i've been there and done that. It's the halmark of a themepark MMO. They are not built on divergent or emmergent gameplay, they aren't built on depth, they aren't built on providing a different kind of game. They're developed on the bedrock of giving you the same content you find in other themeparks, not creativety or originality.
NOTHING in ESO is new or different. They're doing what every other company that made a themepark did. Trying to take what THEY THINK worked in other MMO's and applying that to their game. The end result is always the same. An experience that you've already had, and that NEVER amounts to longevity.
Most people do not leave WoW, and lets face it, this is where most of the players they expect to get are coming from, are not looking for another WoW. Most of them stop playing MMO's or want something new. Most of those people are going to come away from ESO with exact same impression, I did this already.
I'm not looking for anyone to "care". I'm expressing my frustration at an industry that refuses to learn. This is an industry headed by people who are showing an inability to evolve. They're very unispiring, uncreative, and INCREDIBLY unoriginal.
A themepark is a complete 180 of what an ES game is. If you're not going to be creative or original, and they're not doig eitehr of those things at ZeniOnline, then at least do it the way an ES fan would expect an ES mmo to play.
But we all know that the typical themepark mmo makes more money in the short term, so why worry about creating a sandbox that would probably require long term growth.
Trion is learning, that's why they're doing the 3 faction pvp and housing slivers.
I keep bringing this up but without questing it specifically.
What I dont understand about a 2,3,4,5,6 faction system is this. Why not have clans declare war on clans. Simple, no factions but the effect is tons of factions.
Why would that be not as good as a 3 faction system or better?
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Pretty much in the same boat. There have been a lot of positive aspects surfacing to offset the initial "TES mmorpgification" shock. But I'm still a bit wary. I need to know more on a wide range of aspects before they'll win me over but at the moment I'm cautiously optimistic realizing that this might not be a typical TES game with typical TES values but perhaps a good game on its own merrits.
In the same boat as well and I won't be surprised if in early 2013 it's begun to look like a pretty crowded boat.
Many of us have played the TES games and thought "Why couldn't MMOs be more like this?" So when this game was announced, the fact that it seemed more like it was going "the MMO way" rather than "the TES way" was a bit of a slap in the face for this reason more than anything else. Many of us saw the opportunity of having a "TES, only massively online" missed as a rather unfortunate thing to happen to this genre that's gone a bit stale recently.
On the other hand, fact remains that if you'd just give me these features and not mention it was a TES game, I'd surely be intrigued.
Comments
Oh hell yes, let's support this game by turning a blind eye to the long list of shit features it has and just praise the few minor things it does right.
By doing so, we will make sure the game sells well and we get yet another decade of spoonfed bullshit MMO's, whoopee!
Excellent fucking idea. Pat yourself on the back.
Without the money, what is the point?
What do you think they should of made? Perhaps an Owen centric game, where crafters distribute the loot?
The majority of MMO gamers play PVE, so it makes no sense to shoe horn their rewards thru the least played game mechanic. You say it makes it like everything else, and I say it is a smart game design.
Zenimax has tried to hook the PVP folks up with 3 faction combat. They have brought back open world dungeons. The barking about "same ole same ole" just isnt applicable in my mind.
If you are expecting wholesale change, then look to some indy dev. No investor, in their right mind, is going to let their money pay for a game full of concept ideas. There is going to be repitition of working mechanics, but at least ESO looks to be doing stuff different from the norm since WOW launched.
In my mind, I would like to see a game somewhere on the scale between EQ and WOW. That would give a game some depth, yet not bore folks to sleep. The total world simulation type games belong with indy companies. They have yet to be proven popular, and until they do, they deserve minimal backing.
Perhaps I misunderstood your post, so please correct me if I ASSumed wrong.
Asking Devs to make AAA sandbox titles is like trying to get fine dining on a McDonalds dollar menu budget.
I don't understand why every individual sets their mind an MMO's specific features and paints them as terrible and bad as if everyone else just automatically agrees with them.
I quoted this because I agree with the point of view here. The industry is not going to have every game emerge after a lengthy development period with every new concept. Game mechanics that are available today and found to be successful are not going to be in a game release tommorow. Some things just can't be added on a whim, it takes time and in many cases certain features need to be implimented from the foundation up. TESO is close to the end of development. They have already made the choices, they made them four or five years ago...back before SWTOR was released or whatever other recent game people are loving and hating was released.
The ship has sailed. Some things can be adjusted and or tweaked, but if people think that Zenimax is going to scrap the whole project and redo it with all new concepts you are going to be permanently disappointed. They took the concepts and the ideas that were huge at the time, they were successful.
As I have said before, four or five years ago most people said "do what Blizzard has done, they are the best,' now they all complain of boredom. We might not see much innovation for a few years yet. It will take time to get new games out that copy Tera, GW2 (not even released yet), TSW (not yet released), Rift, etc. Earth shattering MMO innovation is not going to happen anytime soon unless a dark horse independant developer happens to knock one out of the park.
DayZ is looking good, but it is certainly not all new.
ESO is still built around quest grinding, they've been talking about it for the last couple of weeks now. They haven't been talking about all the divergent gameplay that everyone loved about the ES series, they've been talking about questing.
They've talked about solo personal stories that you do alone.
They've talked about the use of phasing to tell stories and alter the world based on what quest you've done.
They've talked about trinity combat mechanics.
They've talked about classes.
They've talked about single zone faction pvp and instanced battlegrounds.
Some of you people get so wrapped up in the WAY they talk about features that you don't even notice what it is they're actually saying. They have not described anything that resembles an ES game, they just keep saying that they threw in this little alteration to a basic themepark mechanic so that it'll look like something that resembles an ES feature, and you guys latch on to it.
Just because they focus on talking about sprinting and blocking doesn't mean that it's not tab targetting/ hotbar combat. Just because they focus on "no quest hubs" doesn't mean that there aren't quest hubs because they mince words to gloss over saying that they moved the quest hubs (which one of the developers literally said in one of the video interviews "we moved the quest hubs"), nor does it mean that ESO won't be all about "doing quests" to level, like every other themepark.
Just because they very breifly mention that there will be raids, instanced dugneons with standard difficulty or heroic, instanced battlegrounds, or tank/ healer/ dps group composition, doesn't mean they aren't core features of the game. It just means they're intentionally avoiding talking about these things so that the game sounds more like something it isn't.
ESO is going to be a standard themepark MMO, no different from Rift, EQ2, GW2, or WoW. It's being built on the same core features and mechanics as every other themepark MMO, but they're using wording and phrases, just like every other studio does, to make it sound like they're not doing that.
Edit: TL;DR, A themepark MMO that "does it slightly different" is still just a themepark MMO. ESO will end up with the same complaints that every other one gets. It's just more of the same old same old.
This. So big deal if they do 1 or 2 things good but 1 or 2 things is not the entire package. It is still not a true Elder Scrolls game and it doesn't have all the goodness of the single player games.
Grim Dawn, the next great action rpg!
http://www.grimdawn.com/
Well, if the makers care to take TES off the box, they could make whatever game they want, and no one would care...
But, they are using the TES IP in an attempt to tap the TES fanbase by calling it an "elder scrolls" game, and yet, they are taking out most of the game mechanics that made TES SPGs good.
So, how should those very same TES fans feel about that?
Zenimax can't have it both ways: They can't say "This is an elder scrolls game and if you were a fan of TES titles, you should like this game" and at the same time say "This is an MMO and not really anything like a TES game, so many/most of the mechanics you liked in the SPG games are not going in there (especially when other MMOs HAVE had some of those elements in there)".
In the end, it looks like an attempt to get TES fans to buy a game, simply because it has TES on the box, and nothing about the IP in the box...
Consider me not sold, and not buying the hype...
They didnt do that with SWG? Didnt they give us Uncle Owens trading corner, rather than a fleshed out PVE experience? It had jack to do with the theme of the IP. The only thing I remember in the OT even somewhat related was in ESB, when they were placing sensors on Hoth. Sure dont remember harvestors.
It really is a non issue, but dont call out a game, when another was doing it as well.
Quite frankly, I see nothing out of the ordinary in ESO that I wouldnt normally see in a SP version, except for the tab/target, and I have no issue with it. It sounds like the game will have a personal story line, and also plenty of PVE content. Which is precisely what I get from playing the SP versions.
The fact they are giving PVP folks 3 faction is just a bonus.
Asking Devs to make AAA sandbox titles is like trying to get fine dining on a McDonalds dollar menu budget.
I agree, especially coming from 10 years of DAoC. However, most folks won't understand what open dungeons and 3 realms are all about, especially when they see the classes and races for each faction are (drum roll)...different. That alone will confuse them.
Players will log in eventually just to ask which race and class "pwns." Then they will try to figure which combo of abilities "pwns." Then they will have to do that for the other 2 factions. Eventually they will get "pwned" in pvp by a particular class. After they come here to call nerf or what have you, they will make the class and play it until they get "pwned."
Let's hope those people leave so we can have a great community
You hate Quest HUBs but love the POI , now if you had said I hate Quest HUBs and want to explore fine but otherwise they ammount to the same thing.
Sadly if all this game contains is 3 months to max level and combat then it falls into the same category as all but two or 3 MMOs released in the last 5 years, i.e. not fit for purpose.
Love the Elder Scrolls series very well done.
________________________________________________________
Sorcery must persist, the future is the Citadel
The Genre is the Genre and if you don't like it well I don't really care. What is wrong is that most releases do not even fit the original MMO theme, anything twitch based does not need a large world just and Arena and a number of maps.
Any MMORPG that is well implemented ; Has Longevity(2 years +)/Proper Gameplay(Combat,Crafting,politics)/Community then it starts to be of interest.
Do the complaints here really matter , well actually they don't.... Will they illicit smiles from readers maybe but little more.
________________________________________________________
Sorcery must persist, the future is the Citadel
Actually it had everything to do with the IP because before the prequel trilogy the Star Wars Universe wasnt just based on jedi being the most powerful thing known to man, a bounty hunter could kill just as effectively, a smuggler could outsmart a sith lord, a dancer could choke Jabba the hutt to death, and a few bothans could die to bring down an entire empire. Star Wars atthat time in the IP WAS about EVERYONE not just jedis. And even though Uncle Owen may have been the lowest on the list he still died defending luke, a kid that wasnt even his own, and played hisown part in the saga.
Say what you want about SWG but it stayed true to the lore of the era it was based on. It didnt Cut corners like ESO or TOR and set the game THOUSANDS of years before anything happened in thes stories and you know why? Cause the developers obviously cared about continuity and were willing to make the game appropriately, how it was represented n the stories we grew up enjoying for hours. And you know what the devs did beyond that? Yes Your right they made up classes and even put Tera Kasi into the story which was Expanded universe star Wars, along with the Chiss. But they did so without trying to break the boundries of what made it Star Wars.
ESO has NO CONTINUITY! They are locking 3 races per faction, which was NEVER represented in ANY of the ES games, they are taking away imperials as a race all together, which defiently wasnt a race to give up Lore wise. On top of all this the game doesnt have a Mature setting, no blood, obviously no links to slavery or sexuality or any other Taboo subject. AND just to make it into a great well rounded package, You cant even freely develop skills as you explore the game.
Im sorry you can say your an ES fan and that you dont care about those other things, but I can garuntee the one thing that nobody expects from an Elder Scrolls games for is being limited to One class doing One job. Yes they have said its going to be loose what weapons you can weild, but that doesnt cahnge the fact that if I start off as a mage, im never going to be a warrior someday if I want, or Im never going to get better at jumping simply by doing the action of jumping, or getting better at fighting with axes through actually participating in battle with an axe!
No one asking for ESO to make everyone "Owens", because the game is about heroes, but its about being the hero YOU want to be, its an individualist's game, and now its just going to be another linear ride for EVERYONE YAY!!! Lets market Everything and never take risks woohoo!
Youknow whats funny is all the people saying if your an investor your not going to put your money on a concept thats neverbeen tried or hasnt ever worked???
So none of you have ever heard of a bull market economy??? Taking risks is the EXACT way people make money in the stock market, but thats when they want the risk cause they want to win big, thatswhen they have full confidence in what theyare doing no matter what. ESO has no confidence, you can see it from the horrible awkward look Paul Sage always has on his face. Watch the yogscast video with him and you can tell how off guard he is whenever they ask him a question, he does good with people who are being payed by G4 or IGN to be straightforward and not throw any lowballers his way, but when you see him with th yogscast guys (Real down to earth gamers).
Really? It stayed true to the lore?
Smugglers that dont smuggle. Jedi that far outnumber the amount that were supposed to be around? Luke taking a break from battling Vader so he can sit in front of an ent?
No, it didnt stay true to the IP. The OT was about adventure, it had jack n shit to do with the 15 mins total screen time,spread across 3 movies, given to docs/ents, and Owen, and yet they were very much central to SWG.
I just dont get why you MMO sandboxers dont get together, and kickstart the game you guys want. Invest YOUR money, if it is such a good thing. Quit trying to spends other folks money. You can either play what is made, or look elsewhere. What ya wont get is this game being made the way you think it should be.
Asking Devs to make AAA sandbox titles is like trying to get fine dining on a McDonalds dollar menu budget.
Not enough to convince me this isn't yet another typical gear grind progression game that will be a huge letdown for most people.
If you enjoyed WoW I'm sure you'll enjoy this game. If you disliked WoW I bet its safe to say you will dislike this game, as well.
For those of us wishing for fresh ideas that TES should have brought to the table its just a huge disappointment.
Here's the difference:
SW was primarily a movie IP, people played SWG in the SW world, there was nothing to feel let down about in so far as the gameplay did not stay true to the IP, because the IP was movie based and had no gameplay.
TES on the otherhand is different. TESO is being based on the IP of already existing comp games, and further, games that have a consistant set of features and gameplay elements, which the TESO game is clearly and intentionaly deviating from.
Not all SW fans would object to SWG based on the gameplay, because there was no expectation that it would play in any given way.
When TES fans look at TESO, they expect a game to be like "the elder scrolls" games, because that is what the IP is. And mostly what TESO will not be, according to the devs themselves. Otherwise, the damn devs should not even bother trying to use the TES IP and a gimmick to sell boxes.
(And for the record, there was nothing wrong with the PvE in original SWG, and in the later game, it was not even possible to plant harvesters on Hoth, that was an instanced only planet... although I do recall seeing mosture harvestors on Tat and "fusion power generators" on Hoth in the movies...)
Look man, I am really trying to keep it civil here. So I hope you arent taking it personal like.
That said, you have to be fucking kidding me to state that PVE in SWG was cool. PVE in EQ was cool.....PVE in SWg was an afterthought. Kostor reserved the land for housing/harvestors. The mention of moisture evaperators was cute....how much screen time was that again?
The power generators? Those got violated faster than most posters would be if they spent a night in prison. Once again, the SW IP sold to us in the 70s/80s was action/adventure.....not "thank you for shopping at Owen-Mart."
No expectattions on a SW game? How many video games were centered on Owen prior to SWG?
Cmon man, you are defending one, and saying dont do it to another. There is nothing wrong with them doing what theyre doing except in certain folks minds.
I have no dog in this show, as I wont be playing ESO. That said, I think several of you are way the fuck off base. When they change the SP games, then you have cause for concern IMO, and I will be right there with ya saying something. Yet when I do, it wont be with pitch forks out.
Asking Devs to make AAA sandbox titles is like trying to get fine dining on a McDonalds dollar menu budget.
Whatever man, it is easily known by your post history that you didn't like SWG much, and maybe you don't like games with a heavy economic sideand that's fine, but no can say SWG didn't reflect the world you saw in the movies (even if you wanted to be Uncle Owen), i.e. sticking to the IP as much as they could when MAKING A COMPUTER GAME.
The difference with TESO is they ALREADY have the computer games and game play, and that IS the IP, and fans of that kind of play are looking for that. And that is what these Zenimax guys are counting on to sell box: the TES gameplay that fans like enough to buy millions and millions of boxes. Only problem it is not going to be in TESO, and they have said that.
Think TES fans play that series because of the story or characters? Not effin likely.
And that is the whole and entire point: The elder scrolls game mechanics and gameplay people liked enough to buy millions of copies of, will definitively NOT be in the game these Zenimax guys are putting out.
And that is fair criticism, because it is they that want to put TES on the box, but not in the box.
(And I liked guildhunting Krayts in the old days, with the 20 man groups - was risky, and the NS elders and the rest, while the PvE was not spectacular in SWG, it had its good points... and DJMs in the old days when they could wipe a group like nothing, those were cool)
If it was something really different it would have come out in their first brag reveal when they expected a huge positive reaction ,but instead got a backlash of huge disappointment. Ever since then they've been back peddling with a lot of spin.
How ever they spin it the backbone and foundation of this game is based on the WOW era a lot have become jaded with. TES will release and shrink down to yet another niche MMO fighting for subs.
word:
I play TES for the game play. I have a big fan, have played hunderns of hours of Morrowind and Skyrim and I really have no idea what the story line is. I usually try to do few quests.
What TES Online is to the TES series is similar to making Darth Vader the good guy in in SWG.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
I have read many though not all of the posts in this thread. And while I agree with some, I also understand the point of view of the others. However, no matter what the opinion, NO ONE is going to find if they truly like the game UNTIL they get their hands on it. All we are going to see until then is a lot of HYPE and speculation and opinion. All of those are fine but they are not enough to become so emotionally invested into what is currently effectively vapor-ware. And before one of those emotionally invested person jumps on that "vapor-ware" comment, understand I am not saying it will be vapor-ware. I am saying you have not got your hands on the finished product. So, ease ups folks.
Let's party like it is 1863!
There are hyper specific items that we do know before the game comes out.
taking a movie for example:
interviewer: 'so your next Dark Knight movie will have some action scenes?'
producer:'no this one will not have any action scenes at all we cant really do that the way viewers want'
given that its not exactly an unreasonable stretch to assume that the movie will not have action scenes.
Just like TES Online will not be in FPS view, will not have FPS combat, will not have player housing, will be classed FOCUSED and will have forced factions.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
Developers and players alike have been using this excuse for I don't know how long. The genre of MMO's doesn't have to be limited to tab targeting, quest hubbing, instanced or regulated PvP, action bars, raiding or dungeon crawling. It's okay that titles have different mechanics, there's nothing to be afraid of.
"This is life! We suffer and slave and expire. That's it!" -Bernard Black (Dylan Moran)
not only does it not have to be it isnt depsite what anyone says. There are RPG MMOs out there that do not do that.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
I'm not really sure I understand the intent of your post here, or what it is that you're trying to convey.
I have no problem with themepark MMOs as long as they're good, but I do understand that there is a pretty big flaw in them. Longevity is entirely based on the developers ability to produce new content, and then to create content that is fresh so that it doesn't appeal to a single group of players. Very few themeparks seem capable of doing this.
Blizzard is learning, that's why they're doing things like Pokepets in the next expansin, and why they've diversified their pvp battleground options.
Trion is learning, that's why they're doing the 3 faction pvp and housing slivers.
But in the end it doesn't matter how much you diversify the gameplay or how much new content you put out to increase the longevity of the game. In the end a themepark MMO is a themepark MMO. You can't really point to one and say that it's nothing like another. They're very rigid in their structure. Level to max level, do end game or not, partake in whatever diversions or minigames they have to offer.
ESO has the same questing you find in EQ2, the same style of combat you find in GW/ GW2, oblivion gates that you find in Rift, solo storylines that you find in ToR, 3 faction pvp that you find in DAoC.
People are going to play it, they are going to walk away from it after a short period of time, and they ARE going to say i've been there and done that. It's the halmark of a themepark MMO. They are not built on divergent or emmergent gameplay, they aren't built on depth, they aren't built on providing a different kind of game. They're developed on the bedrock of giving you the same content you find in other themeparks, not creativety or originality.
NOTHING in ESO is new or different. They're doing what every other company that made a themepark did. Trying to take what THEY THINK worked in other MMO's and applying that to their game. The end result is always the same. An experience that you've already had, and that NEVER amounts to longevity.
Most people do not leave WoW, and lets face it, this is where most of the players they expect to get are coming from, are not looking for another WoW. Most of them stop playing MMO's or want something new. Most of those people are going to come away from ESO with exact same impression, I did this already.
I'm not looking for anyone to "care". I'm expressing my frustration at an industry that refuses to learn. This is an industry headed by people who are showing an inability to evolve. They're very unispiring, uncreative, and INCREDIBLY unoriginal.
A themepark is a complete 180 of what an ES game is. If you're not going to be creative or original, and they're not doig eitehr of those things at ZeniOnline, then at least do it the way an ES fan would expect an ES mmo to play.
But we all know that the typical themepark mmo makes more money in the short term, so why worry about creating a sandbox that would probably require long term growth.
I keep bringing this up but without questing it specifically.
What I dont understand about a 2,3,4,5,6 faction system is this. Why not have clans declare war on clans. Simple, no factions but the effect is tons of factions.
Why would that be not as good as a 3 faction system or better?
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
In the same boat as well and I won't be surprised if in early 2013 it's begun to look like a pretty crowded boat.
Many of us have played the TES games and thought "Why couldn't MMOs be more like this?" So when this game was announced, the fact that it seemed more like it was going "the MMO way" rather than "the TES way" was a bit of a slap in the face for this reason more than anything else. Many of us saw the opportunity of having a "TES, only massively online" missed as a rather unfortunate thing to happen to this genre that's gone a bit stale recently.
On the other hand, fact remains that if you'd just give me these features and not mention it was a TES game, I'd surely be intrigued.
So, well... Color me intrigued for now.