Just wondering why people readily accept games that have "Cash Shops" in products that already require a monthly fee AND paid expansions?
Do people not realize that you're paying the developers to create content with your monthly sub only to resell that content you ALREADY PAID FOR via the cash shop? I shouldn't have to buy the box, pay a monthly fee, pay for expansions, AND pay for extra "fluff" content that i've already paid for to begin with!!!
It's like paying to see a movie, and once you're inside they ask you to buy a seat to watch the movie. Sure, you could stand in the back and watch it, but by the time the movie is over your legs are jelly and your face is stuck to that disgusting floor because the movie dragged on for 2hrs.
Don't get me wrong. CCP are one of the best companies running an MMO nowadays. Their product may not be very popular, but they certainly know how to run an MMO. $20 "digital box" price (that's been on sale recently down to $6), $15/month fee, with FREE expansions & they even doubled-back on their planned cash shop for "fluff" avatar clothing because they listened to the players who said "NO!".
I'm also an advocate for monthly fees over "Free to Play", however that's another box of chocolates :]!
Sorry OP but i dont really see any point in this post for fact still remain that "free" mmo you still need pay sub fee just look at AoC it is good exmple you have cash shop but to benefit for whole game you need to pay sub fee you cant go do any of expansion if dont pay sub fee or raid more then 1 time per week and can only have 3 char if you dont pay sub fee so yes "free" mmo is really not free ^^
Just wondering why people readily accept games that have "Cash Shops" in products that already require a monthly fee AND paid expansions?
Do people not realize that you're paying the developers to create content with your monthly sub only to resell that content you ALREADY PAID FOR via the cash shop? I shouldn't have to buy the box, pay a monthly fee, pay for expansions, AND pay for extra "fluff" content that i've already paid for to begin with!!!
It's like paying to see a movie, and once you're inside they ask you to buy a seat to watch the movie. Sure, you could stand in the back and watch it, but by the time the movie is over your legs are jelly and your face is stuck to that disgusting floor because the movie dragged on for 2hrs.
Don't get me wrong. CCP are one of the best companies running an MMO nowadays. Their product may not be very popular, but they certainly know how to run an MMO. $20 "digital box" price (that's been on sale recently down to $6), $15/month fee, with FREE expansions & they even doubled-back on their planned cash shop for "fluff" avatar clothing because they listened to the players who said "NO!".
I'm also an advocate for monthly fees over "Free to Play", however that's another box of chocolates :]!
Because most people are dumb and have no value of money. Some people cannot grasp real life and find cash shop items comforting and makes them feel special. Other people think their MMO world is better than the real world and will live in it and be completely oblivious to their real live needs or the needs of people and family around them.
Or maybe they do know the value of money and thats why they do it. In WoW for my first mount years ago I remember spending almost a solid week doing nothing but grinding to get the 100 gold needed. It was the most god awful boring thing I've ever done in a game, but I did it because I wanted the mount and I like the rest of the game. Since then I've decided I will never do that again. I'll just buy the mount. There was no sense of accomplishment, in fact it felt like I wasted the whole week, which I did, since there wasn't even entertainment value. In that week for the 10 bucks the mount would have cost I could have earned several thousand dollars.
So yes I know the value of money, and 10 bucks vs several thousand... seems obvious to me.
Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it is bad.
Actually there have been several studies showing that only 10-20% of the people in f2p games spend anything at all, and only a small portion of that spend a lot.
By far the majority in f2p, never spend a time.
Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it is bad.
Because most people are dumb and have no value of money. Some people cannot grasp real life and find cash shop items comforting and makes them feel special. Other people think their MMO world is better than the real world and will live in it and be completely oblivious to their real live needs or the needs of people and family around them.
Or perhaps the opposite. Perhaps, "most people," recognize that $15 a month, less than the cost of a movie ticket and a soda at the theater, is such an entertainment bargain that a few extra bucks here and there for add-ons is well worthwhile.
I know people who play MMOs 20 hours or more per week, perhaps as much as 90 hours a month. At $15 per month that works out to about $0.17 per hour. Thats one of the, if not THE, best entertainment value Ive seen.
Its hard to complain about paying a few bucks for optional extras when the base-line product is so inexpensive compared to other options.
When all has been said and done, more will have been said than done.
When you have a sub fee and a cash shope what you have is a greedy publisher/developer. Period.
It shows on some part (whether publisher or dev) that one or the other has little respect or appreciation for the customer. You are nothing more than a source of hopefull and potential income.
Can you please name 1 devs or company that isn'y greedy or actually respect the customer?
Devs don't care about you, they care about your wallet. ALL companies are trying to rip us off. Every simple one of them. Now why? Because being a fan of them and their games doesn't pay the bills.
When you have a sub fee and a cash shope what you have is a greedy publisher/developer. Period.
It shows on some part (whether publisher or dev) that one or the other has little respect or appreciation for the customer. You are nothing more than a source of hopefull and potential income.
Can you please name 1 devs or company that isn'y greedy or actually respect the customer?
Devs don't care about you, they care about your wallet. ALL companies are trying to rip us off. Every simple one of them. Now why? Because being a fan of them and their games doesn't pay the bills.
CD Projekt Red
How much WoW could a WoWhater hate, if a WoWhater could hate WoW? As much WoW as a WoWhater would, if a WoWhater could hate WoW.
Originally posted by Hedeongot accepted ever since peoples favorite MMO, introduced a cash shop, and started to defend their purchase of what should just be a part of the game... no matter how insignificant the price may be, its still insane how people can pay 60$ for a game + 15$ access fee, and still defend extra costs, that in return reduces the virtual world to a shopping mall, to have "fun in", while waiting for the next raid/ 1group instance/solo quest line.....instead of having something extra to do, be it crafting or what ever mean you d have to gain said "insignificant items worth 10$+"
If people feel that what they get is worth what they spend, then everything is working the way it is supposed to. I don't find this fun and even when I want something that's in an item mall, I can't bring myself to buy anything. That does not mean it's insane for a developer to offer those things. It does not mean it's insane for people to buy those things. Some people have pointed out that back in the 'good old days', extras just didn't exist. Server transfers didn't exist or they cost a good bit of money. Now, you can buy extras like a flaming pony, but the server transfers are free. This doesn't seem any more wrong that the 'good old days'. It just seems a little different.
well since you come onto server transfer....it doesnt even make sense to pay 50$ for a server transfer in newer games, and even if it does...EQ2 were able make it automatic, which means everytime you make a server transfer in EQ2 and pay 50$ it is pretty much 100% profit - mind I dont really mind a company make money on a good script...but that people will pay 50$ is beyond me though, atleast with EQ2 in case....even if you could level a character up for free, and get it re-equipped within 1 sub.
I dont care that 50$ aint alot, it is alot for something that doesnt matter, and people doesnt even find entertaining to do - they wouldnt find it fun if they pay 50$ to pass it.
I'm not sure what you're saying. People aren't paying extra to remove artificial roadblocks. They're paying extra to get a luxury item. They've always been paying extra in MMORPG. The only difference is what they're paying for. Necessary items versus Luxury items.
** edit ** I can't think of a reason why a developer would not add a cash shop. Eve is the only example I can think of where a cash shop was added and it totally backfired on the developer.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Just wondering why people readily accept games that have "Cash Shops" in products that already require a monthly fee AND paid expansions?
Do people not realize that you're paying the developers to create content with your monthly sub only to resell that content you ALREADY PAID FOR via the cash shop? I shouldn't have to buy the box, pay a monthly fee, pay for expansions, AND pay for extra "fluff" content that i've already paid for to begin with!!!
It's like paying to see a movie, and once you're inside they ask you to buy a seat to watch the movie. Sure, you could stand in the back and watch it, but by the time the movie is over your legs are jelly and your face is stuck to that disgusting floor because the movie dragged on for 2hrs.
Don't get me wrong. CCP are one of the best companies running an MMO nowadays. Their product may not be very popular, but they certainly know how to run an MMO. $20 "digital box" price (that's been on sale recently down to $6), $15/month fee, with FREE expansions & they even doubled-back on their planned cash shop for "fluff" avatar clothing because they listened to the players who said "NO!".
I'm also an advocate for monthly fees over "Free to Play", however that's another box of chocolates :]!
Because most people are dumb and have no value of money. Some people cannot grasp real life and find cash shop items comforting and makes them feel special. Other people think their MMO world is better than the real world and will live in it and be completely oblivious to their real live needs or the needs of people and family around them.
Or maybe they do know the value of money and thats why they do it. In WoW for my first mount years ago I remember spending almost a solid week doing nothing but grinding to get the 100 gold needed. It was the most god awful boring thing I've ever done in a game, but I did it because I wanted the mount and I like the rest of the game. Since then I've decided I will never do that again. I'll just buy the mount. There was no sense of accomplishment, in fact it felt like I wasted the whole week, which I did, since there wasn't even entertainment value. In that week for the 10 bucks the mount would have cost I could have earned several thousand dollars.
So yes I know the value of money, and 10 bucks vs several thousand... seems obvious to me.
Maybe then the Devs should just put all end game items in the cash shop if thats how you justify buying a mount instead of earning it through game time. I mean why grind dungeon after dungeon for any end game gear if the theory is that its easier for you to buy a mount instead of earning it through any game time activity? Your thinking just about applies to any activity that a game throws at you, I cant be bothered so I shall buy it instead. WTG no wonder Developers are knocking out shit mmo's after shit mmo's because people like you want the easy route all the time.
I've been wondering why MMO gamers will do that for years now.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
In that week for the 10 bucks the mount would have cost I could have earned several thousand dollars.
So yes I know the value of money, and 10 bucks vs several thousand... seems obvious to me.
Whenever someone makes this type of comment it always annoys me. Did you actually take unpaid time off work just to play WoW? If you did not play WoW that week, would you have instead gone to work and earned those thousands of dollars? If the answer is "No" then there really was no such opportunity cost.
I played WoW a lot over the years. The opportunity cost of not playing the game was playing other video games, watching TV, reading books, going to a concert, riding a bike, etc. It was all done during my leisure time which is specifically the time when I do not work and make money. So the opportunity cost of all that time spent playing WoW is really $0.00 or even a negative amount since the other possible activities would probably be more expensive than $15/month.
When you try to figure out the opportunity cost of something, you should only consider the realistic alternatives.
Just wondering why people readily accept games that have "Cash Shops" in products that already require a monthly fee AND paid expansions?
Do people not realize that you're paying the developers to create content with your monthly sub only to resell that content you ALREADY PAID FOR via the cash shop? I shouldn't have to buy the box, pay a monthly fee, pay for expansions, AND pay for extra "fluff" content that i've already paid for to begin with!!!
It's like paying to see a movie, and once you're inside they ask you to buy a seat to watch the movie. Sure, you could stand in the back and watch it, but by the time the movie is over your legs are jelly and your face is stuck to that disgusting floor because the movie dragged on for 2hrs.
Don't get me wrong. CCP are one of the best companies running an MMO nowadays. Their product may not be very popular, but they certainly know how to run an MMO. $20 "digital box" price (that's been on sale recently down to $6), $15/month fee, with FREE expansions & they even doubled-back on their planned cash shop for "fluff" avatar clothing because they listened to the players who said "NO!".
I'm also an advocate for monthly fees over "Free to Play", however that's another box of chocolates :]!
Because most people are dumb and have no value of money. Some people cannot grasp real life and find cash shop items comforting and makes them feel special. Other people think their MMO world is better than the real world and will live in it and be completely oblivious to their real live needs or the needs of people and family around them.
Or maybe they do know the value of money and thats why they do it. In WoW for my first mount years ago I remember spending almost a solid week doing nothing but grinding to get the 100 gold needed. It was the most god awful boring thing I've ever done in a game, but I did it because I wanted the mount and I like the rest of the game. Since then I've decided I will never do that again. I'll just buy the mount. There was no sense of accomplishment, in fact it felt like I wasted the whole week, which I did, since there wasn't even entertainment value. In that week for the 10 bucks the mount would have cost I could have earned several thousand dollars.
So yes I know the value of money, and 10 bucks vs several thousand... seems obvious to me.
Maybe then the Devs should just put all end game items in the cash shop if thats how you justify buying a mount instead of earning it through game time. I mean why grind dungeon after dungeon for any end game gear if the theory is that its easier for you to buy a mount instead of earning it through any game time activity? Your thinking just about applies to any activity that a game throws at you, I cant be bothered so I shall buy it instead. WTG no wonder Developers are knocking out shit mmo's after shit mmo's because people like you want the easy route all the time.
If people found the end game boring than I might agree. However many/most do not, so your idea is silly.
I don't think developers are knocking out crap MMO's. I think MMO's are better today than than have ever been. More choice in the games (by and large) and more choice of games.
If you like doing the dungeon grind than it's find, grinding for the mount wasn't fun, it was horrible. So once again, your comment is silly.
No I don't want the easy route. I am perfectly content to play a game for years upon years, and do. What I want is varied content, lots of options. I don't want to feel forced to grind any one thing. Simple really.
Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it is bad.
Because the companies know the consumers are impatient and will pay through the nose for advantages, "look at me!" items and instant gratification wares.
In that week for the 10 bucks the mount would have cost I could have earned several thousand dollars.
So yes I know the value of money, and 10 bucks vs several thousand... seems obvious to me.
Whenever someone makes this type of comment it always annoys me. Did you actually take unpaid time off work just to play WoW? If you did not play WoW that week, would you have instead gone to work and earned those thousands of dollars? If the answer is "No" then there really was no such opportunity cost.
I played WoW a lot over the years. The opportunity cost of not playing the game was playing other video games, watching TV, reading books, going to a concert, riding a bike, etc. It was all done during my leisure time which is specifically the time when I do not work and make money. So the opportunity cost of all that time spent playing WoW is really $0.00 or even a negative amount since the other possible activities would probably be more expensive than $15/month.
When you try to figure out the opportunity cost of something, you should only consider the realistic alternatives.
Whether you agree or not, the argument is sound. I know the value of a dollar. I decided to take time off work that week. In hindsight I would have been much better off. A lot of my work is created by me. I took the time off for enjoyment, a pleasure activity, that turned out to be unenjoyable. Therefore the week was wasted and I would have been better off not taking that time. Therefore the opportunity cost of grinding the mount was several thousand dollars lost. That is the realistic alternative.
Blizzard and many other games have since realized that this is stupid and so have made getting things like mounts easier.
Once again, I'm not against hard work, or long work. I've been working on a grand Hall in Istaria for 2 years now. Several million items are requires. However it is enjoyable because of the way the game is structured. What I want is varied content, lots of options. I don't want to feel forced to grind any one thing, just to enjoy the rest of the game. Simple really.
Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it is bad.
Because companies are greedy and players even moreso it seems
Currently playing - FF14ARR Previous games - SWG, World of Warcraft, ShadowBane, Warhammer, Age of Conan, Darkfall, Planetside Asheron's Call, Everquest, Everquest 2, Too many.
Cash shops are the plague of the modern gaming world, the second a developer starts to add a cash shop they instantly have to cripple the game its in to accomodate it.
Take WOW, 4 bag slots, each bag around 18+ slots, with room to expand to 32 slots per bag, if wow got a cash shop the player would not start with the option of getting a big bag, and they would not have 4 slots, they would have 1 slot with limited space within it. and would then have to pay for more slots.
Its really a joke, and worst of all its a joke on us, the players, when you look at the amount of money a paying player dumps on a game with a cash shop and total it up over the course of a gaming year, they not only have easily paid for the subscription if the game had one, but they pay way over it.
were being robbed, and the reason these game studios are going free to play is not for us the games, as they claim, their doing it becuase it makes them more money that if they were subscription, even with the same amount of players, playing free or subscription, the free to play models will still make more money, because of that smaller richer portion of the gamer base that buys everything and spends crazy amounts of money on the game.
People need to wake up, but I wont hold my breath, we live in a world where companies make millions and billions a year selling water to people who have free water at home.
If I had the money, I would take these companies to court and challenge the right to ownership over these digital items, and really hammer how how stupid it is to pay real money for something you never actually own. or have any rights to and that without warning can not only be taken from you but can be deleted.
Cash shops are the plague of the modern gaming world, the second a developer starts to add a cash shop they instantly have to cripple the game its in to accomodate it.
Take WOW, 4 bag slots, each bag around 18+ slots, with room to expand to 32 slots per bag, if wow got a cash shop the player would not start with the option of getting a big bag, and they would not have 4 slots, they would have 1 slot with limited space within it. and would then have to pay for more slots.
Its really a joke, and worst of all its a joke on us, the players, when you look at the amount of money a paying player dumps on a game with a cash shop and total it up over the course of a gaming year, they not only have easily paid for the subscription if the game had one, but they pay way over it.
were being robbed, and the reason these game studios are going free to play is not for us the games, as they claim, their doing it becuase it makes them more money that if they were subscription, even with the same amount of players, playing free or subscription, the free to play models will still make more money, because of that smaller richer portion of the gamer base that buys everything and spends crazy amounts of money on the game.
People need to wake up, but I wont hold my breath, we live in a world where companies make millions and billions a year selling water to people who have free water at home.
If I had the money, I would take these companies to court and challenge the right to ownership over these digital items, and really hammer how how stupid it is to pay real money for something you never actually own. or have any rights to and that without warning can not only be taken from you but can be deleted.
Except wow does have an item shop, and doesn't have that restriction. Cash shops don't mean the game needs to be crippled at all, as WoW has shown.
Now when the game goes F2P yes that often happens, but not just with the inclusion of a cash shop.
Regarding the ownership things, I fully expect that someday someone will do that.
Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it is bad.
I wont pay for an expansion anymore. To many studios are giving you expansion like content patches without the need to pay for them for me to think that it's not something that I shouldn't expect.
Besides EvE which is a completely different style of development (and sells game time to be traded/lost in game, earning them significant extra income), name one.
Rift? MO, DF, Mabinogi, did funcom charge for any AoC expansion? WAR, LoTRO, Lineage 2, City of Heroes, Aion and...pretty much every game not made by Blizzard or SoE?
Very few MMO's actually charge you for expansions.
And for the record, PLEX is about the smartest thing a developer ever did in an MMO. It cuts down on RMTing, and allows players to play the game without paying each month without CCP ever losing a single sub. Not that I have any idea what that has to do with expansions though.
Plex allows CCP to cut out sellers. It cuts them out, and the result is EVE has its numbers propped up. I have said it many times, but I will say it again....totally agree with you. It was a great choice for CCP.
I have no proof, but I would say the direct result of Plex is 100k plus subs. The number I base it on is those getting free time, and those not dropping due to less players.
What Plex doesnt do is protect the sanctity of gaming. I have no issue with folks playing SP games in whatever fashion they wish. I have hit the "God mode" button numerous times over the yrs. When it comes to online gaming though, I am of the firm belief folks should only earn rewards made available thru their in game efforts.
During my yrs playing EQ, I used to love Alakhazam, and the Fires of Heaven web site. It was like the JC Penny Christmas catalog....you got to see what is available if you put in the time.
Although in retrospect I feel EQ was too extreme, I think there is a balance somewhere between it and a game like WoW/TOR/etc.
Sadly though there are so many that dont have the same ideals about online gaming, and view buying gold/items/lvls/Plex as no biggie. Ah well, I got a dinosaur in the garage, and I am ready to preach from it. Folks need to let these little whipper snappers know that using RL money to get ahead in online gaming is lame.
Asking Devs to make AAA sandbox titles is like trying to get fine dining on a McDonalds dollar menu budget.
Cash shops are the plague of the modern gaming world, the second a developer starts to add a cash shop they instantly have to cripple the game its in to accomodate it.
Take WOW, 4 bag slots, each bag around 18+ slots, with room to expand to 32 slots per bag, if wow got a cash shop the player would not start with the option of getting a big bag, and they would not have 4 slots, they would have 1 slot with limited space within it. and would then have to pay for more slots.
Its really a joke, and worst of all its a joke on us, the players, when you look at the amount of money a paying player dumps on a game with a cash shop and total it up over the course of a gaming year, they not only have easily paid for the subscription if the game had one, but they pay way over it.
were being robbed, and the reason these game studios are going free to play is not for us the games, as they claim, their doing it becuase it makes them more money that if they were subscription, even with the same amount of players, playing free or subscription, the free to play models will still make more money, because of that smaller richer portion of the gamer base that buys everything and spends crazy amounts of money on the game.
People need to wake up, but I wont hold my breath, we live in a world where companies make millions and billions a year selling water to people who have free water at home.
If I had the money, I would take these companies to court and challenge the right to ownership over these digital items, and really hammer how how stupid it is to pay real money for something you never actually own. or have any rights to and that without warning can not only be taken from you but can be deleted.
A couple of questions for clarification:
Does one own the movie that he watches through his subscription to HBO ?
Is the water at your home free ? Where I am from we have to pay for it. Is it actually different where you are (I am assuming that you are somewhere outside the U.S. based on the comment about free utilities) ?
When all has been said and done, more will have been said than done.
If a MMO charges a subscription AND has a cash shop I will not be playing and paying that game.
This includes WOW with it's $25 mounts. They can just sod off.
Given that WOW still has 10M+ subs, and that millions have bought the $25 mount, i would say enough players feel that it is acceptable.
Or enough players have so much investment in it already that they can't simply walk from it, and can't let all those other assholes strut around on their 25$ mounts acting all smug.
Writer / Musician / Game Designer
Now Playing: Skyrim, Wurm Online, Tropico 4 Waiting On: GW2, TSW, Archeage, The Rapture
Comments
Sorry OP but i dont really see any point in this post for fact still remain that "free" mmo you still need pay sub fee just look at AoC it is good exmple you have cash shop but to benefit for whole game you need to pay sub fee you cant go do any of expansion if dont pay sub fee or raid more then 1 time per week and can only have 3 char if you dont pay sub fee so yes "free" mmo is really not free ^^
Do you feel the same way when a company sells shirts, hats, or other clothes/merch related to the game?
Or maybe they do know the value of money and thats why they do it. In WoW for my first mount years ago I remember spending almost a solid week doing nothing but grinding to get the 100 gold needed. It was the most god awful boring thing I've ever done in a game, but I did it because I wanted the mount and I like the rest of the game. Since then I've decided I will never do that again. I'll just buy the mount. There was no sense of accomplishment, in fact it felt like I wasted the whole week, which I did, since there wasn't even entertainment value. In that week for the 10 bucks the mount would have cost I could have earned several thousand dollars.
So yes I know the value of money, and 10 bucks vs several thousand... seems obvious to me.
It's their own decision to pay, or not to pay for extracontent, items etc...
...If they want to spent way moreextra cash for a already subscriped/bought game, they have to...
Actually even more people do pay for F2P game content as well..So...you got the idea.
You CAN Spent way to much for a MMO !
Actually there have been several studies showing that only 10-20% of the people in f2p games spend anything at all, and only a small portion of that spend a lot.
By far the majority in f2p, never spend a time.
Or perhaps the opposite. Perhaps, "most people," recognize that $15 a month, less than the cost of a movie ticket and a soda at the theater, is such an entertainment bargain that a few extra bucks here and there for add-ons is well worthwhile.
I know people who play MMOs 20 hours or more per week, perhaps as much as 90 hours a month. At $15 per month that works out to about $0.17 per hour. Thats one of the, if not THE, best entertainment value Ive seen.
Its hard to complain about paying a few bucks for optional extras when the base-line product is so inexpensive compared to other options.
When all has been said and done, more will have been said than done.
Can you please name 1 devs or company that isn'y greedy or actually respect the customer?
Devs don't care about you, they care about your wallet. ALL companies are trying to rip us off. Every simple one of them. Now why? Because being a fan of them and their games doesn't pay the bills.
CD Projekt Red
How much WoW could a WoWhater hate, if a WoWhater could hate WoW?
As much WoW as a WoWhater would, if a WoWhater could hate WoW.
I'm not sure what you're saying. People aren't paying extra to remove artificial roadblocks. They're paying extra to get a luxury item. They've always been paying extra in MMORPG. The only difference is what they're paying for. Necessary items versus Luxury items.
** edit **
I can't think of a reason why a developer would not add a cash shop. Eve is the only example I can think of where a cash shop was added and it totally backfired on the developer.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Maybe then the Devs should just put all end game items in the cash shop if thats how you justify buying a mount instead of earning it through game time. I mean why grind dungeon after dungeon for any end game gear if the theory is that its easier for you to buy a mount instead of earning it through any game time activity? Your thinking just about applies to any activity that a game throws at you, I cant be bothered so I shall buy it instead. WTG no wonder Developers are knocking out shit mmo's after shit mmo's because people like you want the easy route all the time.
I've been wondering why MMO gamers will do that for years now.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Whenever someone makes this type of comment it always annoys me. Did you actually take unpaid time off work just to play WoW? If you did not play WoW that week, would you have instead gone to work and earned those thousands of dollars? If the answer is "No" then there really was no such opportunity cost.
I played WoW a lot over the years. The opportunity cost of not playing the game was playing other video games, watching TV, reading books, going to a concert, riding a bike, etc. It was all done during my leisure time which is specifically the time when I do not work and make money. So the opportunity cost of all that time spent playing WoW is really $0.00 or even a negative amount since the other possible activities would probably be more expensive than $15/month.
When you try to figure out the opportunity cost of something, you should only consider the realistic alternatives.
If people found the end game boring than I might agree. However many/most do not, so your idea is silly.
I don't think developers are knocking out crap MMO's. I think MMO's are better today than than have ever been. More choice in the games (by and large) and more choice of games.
If you like doing the dungeon grind than it's find, grinding for the mount wasn't fun, it was horrible. So once again, your comment is silly.
No I don't want the easy route. I am perfectly content to play a game for years upon years, and do. What I want is varied content, lots of options. I don't want to feel forced to grind any one thing. Simple really.
Because the companies know the consumers are impatient and will pay through the nose for advantages, "look at me!" items and instant gratification wares.
Whether you agree or not, the argument is sound. I know the value of a dollar. I decided to take time off work that week. In hindsight I would have been much better off. A lot of my work is created by me. I took the time off for enjoyment, a pleasure activity, that turned out to be unenjoyable. Therefore the week was wasted and I would have been better off not taking that time. Therefore the opportunity cost of grinding the mount was several thousand dollars lost. That is the realistic alternative.
Blizzard and many other games have since realized that this is stupid and so have made getting things like mounts easier.
Once again, I'm not against hard work, or long work. I've been working on a grand Hall in Istaria for 2 years now. Several million items are requires. However it is enjoyable because of the way the game is structured. What I want is varied content, lots of options. I don't want to feel forced to grind any one thing, just to enjoy the rest of the game. Simple really.
Because companies are greedy and players even moreso it seems
Currently playing - FF14ARR
Previous games - SWG, World of Warcraft, ShadowBane, Warhammer, Age of Conan, Darkfall, Planetside Asheron's Call, Everquest, Everquest 2, Too many.
Cash shops are the plague of the modern gaming world, the second a developer starts to add a cash shop they instantly have to cripple the game its in to accomodate it.
Take WOW, 4 bag slots, each bag around 18+ slots, with room to expand to 32 slots per bag, if wow got a cash shop the player would not start with the option of getting a big bag, and they would not have 4 slots, they would have 1 slot with limited space within it. and would then have to pay for more slots.
Its really a joke, and worst of all its a joke on us, the players, when you look at the amount of money a paying player dumps on a game with a cash shop and total it up over the course of a gaming year, they not only have easily paid for the subscription if the game had one, but they pay way over it.
were being robbed, and the reason these game studios are going free to play is not for us the games, as they claim, their doing it becuase it makes them more money that if they were subscription, even with the same amount of players, playing free or subscription, the free to play models will still make more money, because of that smaller richer portion of the gamer base that buys everything and spends crazy amounts of money on the game.
People need to wake up, but I wont hold my breath, we live in a world where companies make millions and billions a year selling water to people who have free water at home.
If I had the money, I would take these companies to court and challenge the right to ownership over these digital items, and really hammer how how stupid it is to pay real money for something you never actually own. or have any rights to and that without warning can not only be taken from you but can be deleted.
Except wow does have an item shop, and doesn't have that restriction. Cash shops don't mean the game needs to be crippled at all, as WoW has shown.
Now when the game goes F2P yes that often happens, but not just with the inclusion of a cash shop.
Regarding the ownership things, I fully expect that someday someone will do that.
Plex allows CCP to cut out sellers. It cuts them out, and the result is EVE has its numbers propped up. I have said it many times, but I will say it again....totally agree with you. It was a great choice for CCP.
I have no proof, but I would say the direct result of Plex is 100k plus subs. The number I base it on is those getting free time, and those not dropping due to less players.
What Plex doesnt do is protect the sanctity of gaming. I have no issue with folks playing SP games in whatever fashion they wish. I have hit the "God mode" button numerous times over the yrs. When it comes to online gaming though, I am of the firm belief folks should only earn rewards made available thru their in game efforts.
During my yrs playing EQ, I used to love Alakhazam, and the Fires of Heaven web site. It was like the JC Penny Christmas catalog....you got to see what is available if you put in the time.
Although in retrospect I feel EQ was too extreme, I think there is a balance somewhere between it and a game like WoW/TOR/etc.
Sadly though there are so many that dont have the same ideals about online gaming, and view buying gold/items/lvls/Plex as no biggie. Ah well, I got a dinosaur in the garage, and I am ready to preach from it. Folks need to let these little whipper snappers know that using RL money to get ahead in online gaming is lame.
Asking Devs to make AAA sandbox titles is like trying to get fine dining on a McDonalds dollar menu budget.
Why are "cash shops" not acceptable?
It is a free world. It is their game. They are free to price it any way they want to. You, OTOH, are free to decide whether to buy.
If the game (without cash shop items) has more fun "value" then the sub price, why wouldn't i want to sub it?
A couple of questions for clarification:
Does one own the movie that he watches through his subscription to HBO ?
Is the water at your home free ? Where I am from we have to pay for it. Is it actually different where you are (I am assuming that you are somewhere outside the U.S. based on the comment about free utilities) ?
When all has been said and done, more will have been said than done.
It isn't.
If a MMO charges a subscription AND has a cash shop I will not be playing and paying that game.
This includes WOW with it's $25 mounts. They can just sod off.
Given that WOW still has 10M+ subs, and that millions have bought the $25 mount, i would say enough players feel that it is acceptable.
Or enough players have so much investment in it already that they can't simply walk from it, and can't let all those other assholes strut around on their 25$ mounts acting all smug.
Writer / Musician / Game Designer
Now Playing: Skyrim, Wurm Online, Tropico 4
Waiting On: GW2, TSW, Archeage, The Rapture