I don't think EAs history with MMOs looks much better than SoEs in all honesty.
Still you can't argue that they didn't support EQ 1&2 alot better than EA did WHO despite having comparably low subs. I can forgive alot if i see people actually try and make an effort. Though final judgement shall be delayed until i see wether Vanguard receives some love with the F2P transition or not.
In all fairness though, you simply can't expect a developer to put more money into a game than they get out, and thats including opportunity costs.
SWG wasnt an average/good game....it was a major cluster fuck buggy game, with not much to do. You can blame SOE, but more specifically you can blame Kostor as he was in charge.
I respect that you didn't like SWG. But, the game was the MMO for some people and is irreplaceable. (I personally have not found an MMO to flll the void that the CU and NGE created.) It was in no way average. That doesn't mean it wasn't disliked by many. (Not being average doesnt equal good).
SWG wasnt an average/good game....it was a major buggy game, with not much to do. You can blame SOE, but more specifically you can blame Kostor as he was in charge.
I'll give you buggy, but not much to do?
There was plenty to do in SWG, otherwise I would not have spent over 10,000 hours in it, as you can see from my Xfire sig. That is only time from Oct 2005 when I joined Xfire. The time from July 2003 to Oct 2005 was obviously not in that. I still had plenty things to do when server closed on Dec 15th 2011, and played for a solid 8 years.
SWG required an imagination though, and a lot of time to achieve things.
SWTOR just leads by the hand, and at the end of it there is not much to do at all. Considering you have stated that you only have played a few hours per month, and have not got any characters to max yet, I can see why you (still) like SWTOR. They give you plenty to do without you putting in much effort, but if I were you I would just stick to playing single player games, and save $15 per month. You are playing the game like a single player game, and not a P2P MMO which it is meant to be, but if you do not mind then that is up to you, it is your money
Yes but greedy corporations aren't going to respect Koster's awesome work, that's the problem here. Whether EA or SOE it's a battle of sales and advertising to beat money out of gamers pockets, instead of good game design to give people a fun experience. I realize not everything Koster says is practical, but if MMO games are supposed to conceptually fun to play, then EA and SOE are the stingiest most cynical Dungeon Masters in the history of the world, and nothing's going to change that.
We need to pray for a well-produced indie designed game that breaks the mold of the EA / SOE jerkys, or it's going to be a rough year.
Speaking of perspective...how about a list that also includes the BAD SOE games.
(cut stuff out)
Planetside: Same as above. Actually Planetside was pretty solid and only really went downhill due to age, shooters it seems have a lot shorter lifespan.
The Matrix Online: Same as above. Matrix was in no way shape or form Sony's fault... It was pretty much borked from the start and they bought it (who knows why) and made a attempet to set it on track. It was not happening.
Vanguard: This game was a complete failure and you can spin all you like, nothing will change the fact that this game bombed and the only reason it stuck around more than 2 years was the creation of the Sony Station Access offer and it didnt increase population...they still had to merge down to 3 servers and a lot of people blammed Sony for it because it came with RMT. Not sure what went wrong here.. bad timeing and a bit short developemt cycle perhaps.
DC Universe Online: Right....make sure you leave off as many fails from your SOE list as possible guys... Actually it is not a bad game... the only mistake was to make it a subscription game.
SWG: We all know Sony made this average/good game a train wreck. Wrong... SWG was a unholy mess from the start and was very close to being canned because they could not find a publisher, Sony picking it up was ahail mary pass. To bad the game was a buggy mess that could not be balanced. Yeah i was there in the beta... They were very close to shutting down due to lack of publisher. the CU and the NGE was a desperate attempt to fix class balance with what i asume was code frankenstined from Vanguard.
All in all Sony have a bad habit of buying up shitty games for little to no money and try to use a min/max approach, maximum retrin from minimum investment. Most of the time this does NOT turn out very well.
SWG wasnt an average/good game....it was a major buggy game, with not much to do. You can blame SOE, but more specifically you can blame Kostor as he was in charge.
I'll give you buggy, but not much to do?
There was plenty to do in SWG, otherwise I would not have spent over 10,000 hours in it, as you can see from my Xfire sig. That is only time from Oct 2005 when I joined Xfire. The time from July 2003 to Oct 2005 was obviously not in that. I still had plenty things to do when server closed on Dec 15th 2011, and played for a solid 8 years.
SWG required an imagination though, and a lot of time to achieve things.
SWTOR just leads by the hand, and at the end of it there is not much to do at all. Considering you have stated that you only have played a few hours per month, and have not got any characters to max yet, I can see why you (still) like SWTOR. They give you plenty to do without you putting in much effort, but if I were you I would just stick to playing single player games, and save $15 per month. You are playing the game like a single player game, and not a P2P MMO which it is meant to be, but if you do not mind then that is up to you, it is your money
SWG didnt offer shit for PVE. Fuck, give it a rest.
I realize for a RP stage you guys ate that shit up, but it really didnt give squat to do. PVP, tradeskill, farm the same shit. Boring.
I hear folks talk about "I would regrind my new template", and I think "yep and I was checking out new areas in EQ.". Just from 03, when SWG launched, till the time I left EQ in 06, we saw probably 6 expansions. SWG saw 3 during its entire existence.
Content isnt doing the exact same thing over n over....content is getting new things to do.
So spare me the projections on how hardcore a gamer I am. My 52.5k gamerscore on 360 says I do my fair share. The fact you would spend 10k hrs on a game like SWG raises issues all right....but not positive ones in my mind.
Asking Devs to make AAA sandbox titles is like trying to get fine dining on a McDonalds dollar menu budget.
Speaking of perspective...how about a list that also includes the BAD SOE games.
You are confusing perspective with opinion.
You are defending a list leaving out half of their games by saying mine is an opinion because it includes ALL of the games...
Congrats, you lack perspective.
I hope we shall crush...in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country." ~Thomes Jefferson
The Matrix was a game SOE eventually took over, but they didnt make it.
Vanguard was mismanaged into the ground by Brad. Microsoft cut funding, and SOE stepped in to help get it out the door.
SWG wasnt an average/good game....it was a major cluster fuck buggy game, with not much to do. You can blame SOE, but more specifically you can blame Kostor as he was in charge.
PoTBS was placed on Sony's servers and into SoEs Station Access giving them complete control over subscriptions making it Sonys game.
The Matrix, again this thread is now talking about how SONY ruins games or make them worse...deal with the topic.
Vanguard, Sony took over a bad game that was turning around massively and slammed the door shut with idiotic moves that made it far worse.
SWG, I dont care that your opinion of the game was lower than my own of it...the game had a steady sub base and Sony drove them away with massive changes to the game killing it. Deal...with...the...topic...that...sony...sucks with MMOs.
I hope we shall crush...in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country." ~Thomes Jefferson
The Matrix was a game SOE eventually took over, but they didnt make it.
Vanguard was mismanaged into the ground by Brad. Microsoft cut funding, and SOE stepped in to help get it out the door.
SWG wasnt an average/good game....it was a major cluster fuck buggy game, with not much to do. You can blame SOE, but more specifically you can blame Kostor as he was in charge.
PoTBS was placed on Sony's servers and into SoEs Station Access giving them complete control over subscriptions making it Sonys game.
The Matrix, again this thread is now talking about how SONY ruins games or make them worse...deal with the topic.
Vanguard, Sony took over a bad game that was turning around massively and slammed the door shut with idiotic moves that made it far worse.
SWG, I dont care that your opinion of the game was lower than my own of it...the game had a steady sub base and Sony drove them away with massive changes to the game killing it. Deal...with...the...topic...that...sony...sucks with MMOs.
Well.. the matter of the fact is... SWG was a bugridden mess that had about as much balance as drunk sailor on shoreleave... And that is a fact. It is also a fact that they never botherd to finish several classes class quests (mostly non-combat ones) and that macroing was such a large problem that it was not even a matter of if you wanted to use them.. you had to. Stats were bugged, items were bugged. I have lost count of the amount of peopel who came to my ID and refused to remove helmets because they woudl not be able to put them back. And the black rot...That was a brilliant one.
And all this was pretty much in place long before SoE even touched the game... Did i like the NGE, nope.. but something had to be done since the game was a RP chat with blasters.
Actually Sony are pretty good with MMO's not as good as NCSoft but for most part they have been willing to shell out money for prohjects that few others cared to take a chance on. With out them there would not have been any SWG for an example.
Just for discussion, what do you all think would happen to TOR's future if SOE bought the rights from EAware? At the current status of the game, I couldnt see how it could be much worse. Maybe they could even do a "Reverse NGE".
Also, wasnt there a rumour that SWG might come back?
JUust for discussion,
yep check SOE
yep check SWG
yep check NGE
Recipie for an explosion and the best Troll post ever , It is a shame that the code for SWG pre NGE couldn't be sold to some Pro SWG peeps so that they could put a server up.
Sadly the game looks outdated now , but then it is all about gameplay and sometimes a bit of imagination fills in the gaps.
________________________________________________________ Sorcery must persist, the future is the Citadel
Actually SoE were only brought on to supply the Infrastructure backbone to begin with. The online part of the game. It was not at all that clear that SoE would publish the game (at least that was the talk form the devs on the beta forums.) Raph is very much part of the problem though.
And if we should nit pick.. the game was made by Verant interactive.
I would choose SOE over Bioware/EA anyday. Why? they have years of experience over Bioware. SWG was a major wake up call for SOE. SOE knows where they screwed up and I doubt SOE would screw up again. Yeah, SOE is a greedy company, who the fuck isn't. The second EA can see the light at the end of the tunnel you'll be seeing microtransactions starting up in SWTOR overnight. SWTOR is Bioware's first MMORPG and to be 100% honest they're doing a crappy ass job keeping it tight.
Now, if Bioware wasn't ruled by EA then I'd choose Bioware. Why? Bioware seemed like a solid company before they were under EA's roof. I feel that Bioware would have done a good job and may have been more innovative in a lot of departments. There's no telling what's going down at Bioware's weekly meetings. Right now SWTOR has a bunch of pissed off players holding pitchforks and torches. Players want a good Star Wars game, I don't blame them.
Comments
You are confusing perspective with opinion.
I don't think EAs history with MMOs looks much better than SoEs in all honesty.
Still you can't argue that they didn't support EQ 1&2 alot better than EA did WHO despite having comparably low subs. I can forgive alot if i see people actually try and make an effort. Though final judgement shall be delayed until i see wether Vanguard receives some love with the F2P transition or not.
In all fairness though, you simply can't expect a developer to put more money into a game than they get out, and thats including opportunity costs.
I respect that you didn't like SWG. But, the game was the MMO for some people and is irreplaceable. (I personally have not found an MMO to flll the void that the CU and NGE created.) It was in no way average. That doesn't mean it wasn't disliked by many. (Not being average doesnt equal good).
I'll give you buggy, but not much to do?
There was plenty to do in SWG, otherwise I would not have spent over 10,000 hours in it, as you can see from my Xfire sig. That is only time from Oct 2005 when I joined Xfire. The time from July 2003 to Oct 2005 was obviously not in that. I still had plenty things to do when server closed on Dec 15th 2011, and played for a solid 8 years.
SWG required an imagination though, and a lot of time to achieve things.
SWTOR just leads by the hand, and at the end of it there is not much to do at all. Considering you have stated that you only have played a few hours per month, and have not got any characters to max yet, I can see why you (still) like SWTOR. They give you plenty to do without you putting in much effort, but if I were you I would just stick to playing single player games, and save $15 per month. You are playing the game like a single player game, and not a P2P MMO which it is meant to be, but if you do not mind then that is up to you, it is your money
Star Trek Online - Best Free MMORPG of 2012
Ummm try clicking my sig
All in all Sony have a bad habit of buying up shitty games for little to no money and try to use a min/max approach, maximum retrin from minimum investment. Most of the time this does NOT turn out very well.
This have been a good conversation
SWG didnt offer shit for PVE. Fuck, give it a rest.
I realize for a RP stage you guys ate that shit up, but it really didnt give squat to do. PVP, tradeskill, farm the same shit. Boring.
I hear folks talk about "I would regrind my new template", and I think "yep and I was checking out new areas in EQ.". Just from 03, when SWG launched, till the time I left EQ in 06, we saw probably 6 expansions. SWG saw 3 during its entire existence.
Content isnt doing the exact same thing over n over....content is getting new things to do.
So spare me the projections on how hardcore a gamer I am. My 52.5k gamerscore on 360 says I do my fair share. The fact you would spend 10k hrs on a game like SWG raises issues all right....but not positive ones in my mind.
Asking Devs to make AAA sandbox titles is like trying to get fine dining on a McDonalds dollar menu budget.
You are defending a list leaving out half of their games by saying mine is an opinion because it includes ALL of the games...
Congrats, you lack perspective.
I hope we shall crush...in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country." ~Thomes Jefferson
PoTBS was placed on Sony's servers and into SoEs Station Access giving them complete control over subscriptions making it Sonys game.
The Matrix, again this thread is now talking about how SONY ruins games or make them worse...deal with the topic.
Vanguard, Sony took over a bad game that was turning around massively and slammed the door shut with idiotic moves that made it far worse.
SWG, I dont care that your opinion of the game was lower than my own of it...the game had a steady sub base and Sony drove them away with massive changes to the game killing it. Deal...with...the...topic...that...sony...sucks with MMOs.
I hope we shall crush...in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country." ~Thomes Jefferson
Well.. the matter of the fact is... SWG was a bugridden mess that had about as much balance as drunk sailor on shoreleave... And that is a fact. It is also a fact that they never botherd to finish several classes class quests (mostly non-combat ones) and that macroing was such a large problem that it was not even a matter of if you wanted to use them.. you had to. Stats were bugged, items were bugged. I have lost count of the amount of peopel who came to my ID and refused to remove helmets because they woudl not be able to put them back. And the black rot...That was a brilliant one.
And all this was pretty much in place long before SoE even touched the game... Did i like the NGE, nope.. but something had to be done since the game was a RP chat with blasters.
Actually Sony are pretty good with MMO's not as good as NCSoft but for most part they have been willing to shell out money for prohjects that few others cared to take a chance on. With out them there would not have been any SWG for an example.
This have been a good conversation
JUust for discussion,
yep check SOE
yep check SWG
yep check NGE
Recipie for an explosion and the best Troll post ever , It is a shame that the code for SWG pre NGE couldn't be sold to some Pro SWG peeps so that they could put a server up.
Sadly the game looks outdated now , but then it is all about gameplay and sometimes a bit of imagination fills in the gaps.
________________________________________________________
Sorcery must persist, the future is the Citadel
SWG was improved by NGE - the RP nuts that clung to the previously bad game didn't like it, but the majority (who'd already quit before NGE) do, did.
Actually SoE were only brought on to supply the Infrastructure backbone to begin with. The online part of the game. It was not at all that clear that SoE would publish the game (at least that was the talk form the devs on the beta forums.) Raph is very much part of the problem though.
And if we should nit pick.. the game was made by Verant interactive.
This have been a good conversation
Now that's a double edge sword.
I would choose SOE over Bioware/EA anyday. Why? they have years of experience over Bioware. SWG was a major wake up call for SOE. SOE knows where they screwed up and I doubt SOE would screw up again. Yeah, SOE is a greedy company, who the fuck isn't. The second EA can see the light at the end of the tunnel you'll be seeing microtransactions starting up in SWTOR overnight. SWTOR is Bioware's first MMORPG and to be 100% honest they're doing a crappy ass job keeping it tight.
Now, if Bioware wasn't ruled by EA then I'd choose Bioware. Why? Bioware seemed like a solid company before they were under EA's roof. I feel that Bioware would have done a good job and may have been more innovative in a lot of departments. There's no telling what's going down at Bioware's weekly meetings. Right now SWTOR has a bunch of pissed off players holding pitchforks and torches. Players want a good Star Wars game, I don't blame them.
Again, I feel SOE is a better choice.
"Everything is mine and your woman too"