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I am surprised open world dungeons isnt getting a positve response...

Moaky07Moaky07 Flushing, MIPosts: 2,096Member

Here on the forums.

 

Folks claim to want sandbox on MMORPG.com, and yet when they are presented with a game utilizing a sandbox mechanic, they spend their time dissing the game.

 

Open World dungeons  helped community in EQ. Run across someone needing the same thing you do, and you team up to get it done.

 

They are giving 3 factions PVP for folks that like it as well.

 

I just dont get it. I wont be playing this game, but it appears to be adding some of the things sandboxers are wanting, yet it still is being flamed. I guess folks expected a UO/SWG type sandbox, but a themepark is exactly how ES plays.  EQ, to be specific, is exactly what I would expect from this ES MMO.

 

Sure the tab target isnt the FPS esque gameplay from the SP games, but it isnt enough to lose ones mind IMO. Like I said...SP sandboxes play just like themeparks, and anyone expecting an Uncle Owen economic sim was kidding themselves.

 

That is my 2 credits worth anyways. /shrug

Asking Devs to make AAA sandbox titles is like trying to get fine dining on a McDonalds dollar menu budget.

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Comments

  • BurntvetBurntvet Baltimore, MDPosts: 2,941Member Uncommon

    One mechanic does not a sandbox make.

    Especially, whenever the devs open their mouths about TESO, it comes out sounding WoW. Which seems to be the only game they feel like making...

    The devs have specifically backed away from many of the game play elements we ES fans liked in the various single player titles, some with the excuse "That's too hard....".

    As to the specifics of open dungeons, there looks to be so little to do besides combat, that if there are boss spawns or rare spawns, they will be camped forever because there will be .... nothing... else... to... do. These will be camped mercilessly, among other things, by the Bot'ers, and multiboxers, and gold sellers as well.

    In the end, it does not matter much to me, because the devs have openly stated they are not making a game true to the ES gameplay, just another MMO with ES on the box.

    So they will not be getting my money....

     

  • FangrimFangrim PrestonPosts: 589Member Common
    Originally posted by Burntvet

    One mechanic does not a sandbox make.

    Especially, whenever the devs open their mouths about TESO, it comes out sounding WoW. Which seems to be the only game they feel like making...

    The devs have specifically backed away from many of the game play elements we ES fans liked in the various single player titles, some with the excuse "That's too hard....".

    As to the specifics of open dungeons, there looks to be so little to do besides combat, that if there are boss spawns or rare spawns, they will be camped forever because there will be .... nothing... else... to... do. These will be camped mercilessly, among other things, by the Bot'ers, and multiboxers, and gold sellers as well.

    In the end, it does not matter much to me, because the devs have openly stated they are not making a game true to the ES gameplay, just another MMO with ES on the box.

    So they will not be getting my money....

     

    To me the ...... means they will be getting your money...... at least when I use dots like this it implies I am lying or telling a half truth.

    Gnome Wankers two.After the events of 18/07/2015 i fucking hate anyone that has anything to do with skyforge
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  • VidirVidir GothenburgPosts: 944Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Moaky07

    Here on the forums.

     

    Folks claim to want sandbox on MMORPG.com, and yet when they are presented with a game utilizing a sandbox mechanic, they spend their time dissing the game.

     

    Open World dungeons  helped community in EQ. Run across someone needing the same thing you do, and you team up to get it done.

     

    They are giving 3 factions PVP for folks that like it as well.

     

    I just dont get it. I wont be playing this game, but it appears to be adding some of the things sandboxers are wanting, yet it still is being flamed. I guess folks expected a UO/SWG type sandbox, but a themepark is exactly how ES plays.  EQ, to be specific, is exactly what I would expect from this ES MMO.

     

    Sure the tab target isnt the FPS esque gameplay from the SP games, but it isnt enough to lose ones mind IMO. Like I said...SP sandboxes play just like themeparks, and anyone expecting an Uncle Owen economic sim was kidding themselves.

     

    That is my 2 credits worth anyways. /shrug

     Maybe the pvp is one of the reason why many people dont want to play this game.

  • VhalnVhaln Chicago, ILPosts: 3,159Member

    Tera has open world dungeons.  No one ever even mentions it.  The game is so built around solo questing, players just run through them as quickly as possible.  It's not exactly dungeon camping like in the good old days, but I wouldn't exactly call it a sandbox mechanic, either.

     

    Guess my point is mostly that how they're implemented and how they fit into the gameplay can make a world of difference. 

     

    When I want a single-player story, I'll play a single-player game. When I play an MMO, I want a massively multiplayer world.

  • VesaviusVesavius BristolPosts: 7,643Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Moaky07

    Here on the forums.

     

    TBH, I like a few of the elements they are offering, including open world dungeons.

     

    What I Don't like is the focus on PvP (fuck open world PvP in lvl/ gear/ class based MMORPGs.

    This game should have been, IMO, the ultimate directed sandpark PvE MMO. Kind of like Skyrim was for single player.

     

    Everything else, including the art, I could forgive and move on from and give the game a good chance.

     

  • kevjardskevjards carlislePosts: 1,463Member

    there is no point in them making a game that does'nt appeal to the masses.personally i dont think it will be like WOW..it would be suicide and they know it,especially after swtor.they may use WOW for  a reference but that will be it.openworld dungeons are fantastic but theproblem with that is the greedy bastards who cant see past there own nose.

    if i want open world dungeons i would go to the best game around atm,Vanguard to get my fix.i have a sneaking feeling the game will not be challenging enough either.because they have to appeal to the masses the mobs will be easy kills.if they made it a challenge ,then i might take a look but seen has it will be like most mmo's..i,e carrot on a stick i dont think i'll be playing.

    But i will say this..if they prove me wrong and bang out a good game i will play..but this is one game i wont even look at the beta,i will look at release videos reviews before i jump in.

  • fenistilfenistil GliwicePosts: 3,005Member

    You're asking why sandbox crowd aren't wetting their pants cause of open world dungeons and then you  say TESO will be similar to EQ1 which is archetype of themeparks.

     

    You answered your own question.

     

    LoL?

     

     

     

    PS. Open world dungeons are in both sandboxes and themaparks they are not really sandbox or themepark mechanic. Belong to both types.

  • DeivosDeivos Mountain View, CAPosts: 1,770Member Uncommon

    I think it may be the case that people see open world dungeons as a moot point when quests and such are supposedly phased.

     

    So it's great you can jump into a cave or crypt with dozens of other people, but they might see that as an entirely trivial gimmick if their interactivity is barred or disjointed because they are in there for different reasons or on different steps. Or for that matter they may not even see one another until they are on the same steps depending on how the phasing works.

     

    EDIT: Point being that because of other game mechanics people might see the 'open world' as almost a joke.

    "The knowledge of the theory of logic has no tendency whatever to make men good reasoners."
    - Thomas B. Macaulay

  • pierthpierth San Antonio, TXPosts: 1,503Member
    Originally posted by Moaky07

    Here on the forums.

     

    Folks claim to want sandbox on MMORPG.com, and yet when they are presented with a game utilizing a sandbox mechanic, they spend their time dissing the game.

     

    Open World dungeons  helped community in EQ. Run across someone needing the same thing you do, and you team up to get it done.

     

    They are giving 3 factions PVP for folks that like it as well.

     

    I just dont get it. I wont be playing this game, but it appears to be adding some of the things sandboxers are wanting, yet it still is being flamed. I guess folks expected a UO/SWG type sandbox, but a themepark is exactly how ES plays.  EQ, to be specific, is exactly what I would expect from this ES MMO.

     

    Sure the tab target isnt the FPS esque gameplay from the SP games, but it isnt enough to lose ones mind IMO. Like I said...SP sandboxes play just like themeparks, and anyone expecting an Uncle Owen economic sim was kidding themselves.

     

    That is my 2 credits worth anyways. /shrug

    Open world dungeons are a wonderful thing in games with high player interdependence and moderate populations- with too many players per server or player independence (ability to solo/cc multiple mobs) you wind up with people training others out of spite.

  • VesaviusVesavius BristolPosts: 7,643Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by kevjards

    there is no point in them making a game that does'nt appeal to the masses.

     

    Except to create a new 'masses'

     

  • VesaviusVesavius BristolPosts: 7,643Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by fenistil

    You're asking why sandbox crowd aren't wetting their pants cause of open world dungeons and then you  say TESO will be similar to EQ1 which is archetype of themeparks.

     

    You answered your own question.

     

    To be fair to him I think he is refering more to EQ as a undirected themepark, which many get confused with sandbox.

    Most folks using the term 'sandbox' couldn't actually handle a pure sandbox, but the term has become so diffused that people use it to cover a huge range of designs (which are mostly hybrid).

  • kevjardskevjards carlislePosts: 1,463Member
    Originally posted by Vesavius
    Originally posted by kevjards

    there is no point in them making a game that does'nt appeal to the masses.

     

    Except to create a new 'masses'

     

    not going to happen..if anything mmo players are in decline because they are sick of the same shit..notice companies all reverting to f2p cos they cant sustain on normal subs..apart from the odd one or two.WOW just got lucky..if you call it an anomoly.and its not a case of the game is great.people just dont want to move because of all the time invested in the game..understandable i suppose.

    And with all the bad mouthing about Teso ,they are off to a bad start before anyone has seen this game.i have played all sorts of mmo.albeit i am no expert but even i am getting totally sick of the same ol shit..so much so i ordered 4 single player rpg's to tide me over..witcher 1&2 ,skyrim,gothic 3,oh and gothic 4 cos it was really cheap..so thats 5 actually.i guess peoples needs are changing has they get older..one thing is for sure we will never see a game with 10 million subs again..too much for people to choose from these days.everyone is spread out.

  • DanitaKusorDanitaKusor AdelaidePosts: 549Member Uncommon

    My only experience with what might be termed open world dungeons was in Age of Conan.  There was one at level 50 in the sewer, but all that happened with that one was it ended up being camped by high level players and it ended up getting changed to an instanced dungeons. The second one was at level 80 and worked a lot better because you needed a full group of max level players to make it through.

    Later when they released the Commons district there were bosses you could spawn which would drop best-in-slot gem recipes and they worked well, especially on a PvP server where enemy guilds might attack the guild trying to summon the boss.

    Based on this experience I think it is something that can work in a MMO, but it doesn't work well at low level because higher level players simply camp the bosses and devalue the experience.

    The Enlightened take things Lightly

  • ShakyMoShakyMo BradfordPosts: 7,207Member
    Skyrim IS NOT A SANDBOX
  • kevjardskevjards carlislePosts: 1,463Member
    Originally posted by ShakyMo
    Skyrim IS NOT A SANDBOX

    who said it was? oh nvm.

  • VesaviusVesavius BristolPosts: 7,643Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by kevjards
    Originally posted by Vesavius
    Originally posted by kevjards

    there is no point in them making a game that does'nt appeal to the masses.

     Except to create a new 'masses'

    not going to happen.

     

    Except it does, all the time.

     

  • ThorqemadaThorqemada BerlinPosts: 1,277Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by ShakyMo
    Skyrim IS NOT A SANDBOX

    Skyrim is a Sandbox-mode game - Sandbox in computergames terminology never meant a wooden frame with a sand in it but freeform, out of order, dynamic world interacting gameplay which Skyim is!

    +++

    TESO has one problem - the game development was started years back when all publishers and developers still had the crazy idea that a WOW-Clone could beat the original.

    They had the crazy idea that the Brand would attract masses of players while forgetting the the Brand awareness is fundamentally connected with specific gameplay elements that be not recognizeable in the TESO MMO.

    They now try to damage control it and focus on the better ideas of past mmos but struggle to overcome the obstacle of their own brand and the fundamental expectations connected to it.

    But telling the veteran community that things that have been in many MMOs of the past be technically impossible is not a working strategy!

    "Torquemada... do not implore him for compassion. Torquemada... do not beg him for forgiveness. Torquemada... do not ask him for mercy. Let's face it, you can't Torquemada anything!"

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  • Loke666Loke666 MalmöPosts: 17,978Member Uncommon

    EQ2 have open dungeons, AoC have open dungeons, GW2 have open dungeons...

    People don´t talk so much about it because it is not a completely forgotten feature from old days or something new, many MMOs still have both open and instanced dungeons.

    It will have an auction house too and we don´t talk about that either. What is interesting is the unique features and the rare ones.

  • fenistilfenistil GliwicePosts: 3,005Member
    Originally posted by Vesavius
    Originally posted by fenistil

    You're asking why sandbox crowd aren't wetting their pants cause of open world dungeons and then you  say TESO will be similar to EQ1 which is archetype of themeparks.

     

    You answered your own question.

     

    To be fair to him I think he is refering more to EQ as a undirected themepark, which many get confused with sandbox.

    Most folks using the term 'sandbox' couldn't actually handle a pure sandbox, but the term has become so diffused that people use it to cover a huge range of designs (which are mostly hybrid).

    True that.

    I myself can enjoy undirected themepark or a sandbox / themepark hybrid. After all I want to play AA.

    Still I cannot be sure until there will be far more coverage of TESO, but for now it seems like quite a difrected themepark.

    Just throwing one non directed thing like open world dungeons won't make me freznied about idea.

    True I havent played good sandbox (or even sandboxy) mmorpg in really loooong time. 

    That defintely does not mean I will throw myself upon every mmorpg's that throw one small bone at my direction.

     

    I don't need full sandbox, can be hybrid.  

    Still just 1-2 gimmicks are not anything to write home about. After all for me sandboxes are about virtual world filled with systems that make sense.

    One separate features is hmm like one chocolate in box full of jellies. 

    If you don't like jellies that kind of box is not really attractive - isn't it ?

  • Loke666Loke666 MalmöPosts: 17,978Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Thorqemada

    Skyrim is a Sandbox-mode game - Sandbox in computergames terminology never meant a wooden frame with a sand in it but freeform, out of order, dynamic world interacting gameplay which Skyim is!

    +++

    TESO has one problem - the game development was started years back when all publishers and developers still had the crazy idea that a WOW-Clone could beat the original.

    They had the crazy idea that the Brand would attract masses of players while forgetting the the Brand awareness is fundamentally connected with specific gameplay elements that be not recognizeable in the TESO MMO.

    They now try to damage control it and focus on the better ideas of past mmos but struggle to overcome the obstacle of their own brand and the fundamental expectations connected to it.

    But telling the veteran community that things that have been in many MMOs of the past be technically impossible is not a working strategy!

    Skyrim is not really a complete sandbox, no. Minecraft is a typical sandbox, skyrim is more of a hybrid.

    But all games like this have some part sandbox and some part themepark, even Wow have some small sandbox features and UO had some themepark parts.

    But if Skyrim is a sandbox you could argue that GW2 is one as well.

  • SlampigSlampig Chantilly, VAPosts: 2,376Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Moaky07

    Here on the forums.

     

    Folks claim to want sandbox on MMORPG.com, and yet when they are presented with a game utilizing a sandbox mechanic, they spend their time dissing the game.

     

    Open World dungeons  helped community in EQ. Run across someone needing the same thing you do, and you team up to get it done.

     

    They are giving 3 factions PVP for folks that like it as well.

     

    I just dont get it. I wont be playing this game, but it appears to be adding some of the things sandboxers are wanting, yet it still is being flamed. I guess folks expected a UO/SWG type sandbox, but a themepark is exactly how ES plays.  EQ, to be specific, is exactly what I would expect from this ES MMO.

     

    Sure the tab target isnt the FPS esque gameplay from the SP games, but it isnt enough to lose ones mind IMO. Like I said...SP sandboxes play just like themeparks, and anyone expecting an Uncle Owen economic sim was kidding themselves.

     

    That is my 2 credits worth anyways. /shrug

    Sure people want open world dungeons, it is just what is wrapped around those dungeons that people are up in arms about.

    That Guild Wars 2 login screen knocked up my wife. Must be the second coming!

  • ThaneThane berlinPosts: 2,232Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Moaky07

    Here on the forums.

     

    Folks claim to want sandbox on MMORPG.com, and yet when they are presented with a game utilizing a sandbox mechanic, they spend their time dissing the game.

     

    Open World dungeons  helped community in EQ. Run across someone needing the same thing you do, and you team up to get it done.

     

    They are giving 3 factions PVP for folks that like it as well.

     

    I just dont get it. I wont be playing this game, but it appears to be adding some of the things sandboxers are wanting, yet it still is being flamed. I guess folks expected a UO/SWG type sandbox, but a themepark is exactly how ES plays.  EQ, to be specific, is exactly what I would expect from this ES MMO.

     

    Sure the tab target isnt the FPS esque gameplay from the SP games, but it isnt enough to lose ones mind IMO. Like I said...SP sandboxes play just like themeparks, and anyone expecting an Uncle Owen economic sim was kidding themselves.

     

    That is my 2 credits worth anyways. /shrug

    maybe we are just sick of "big companies" or "bug games" riding the mmo train?

    seriously, elder scrolls online? that wont work. that's what they told us for ages now.

    how did that change all of a sudden ^^

    "I'll never grow up, never grow up, never grow up! Not me!"

  • RophezRophez Tucson, AZPosts: 46Member

    Yeah, I'm excited about the open dungeons.  This game has a lot of sandbox elements going for it.  It isn't a complete sandbox, obviously, but it is a lot more 'off the rails' than for instance SWTOR.  They went so far as to create hubless quest systems and massive guild faction systems (mage guild/fighter guild, etc.) to encourage open exploration.

    Hopefully the crafting will encourage more of a sandbox, do what you want, type of game as well.  We'll see.

  • L0C0ManL0C0Man Puerto OrdazPosts: 1,065Member Uncommon

    Few things I'd like to know about them before I pass judgement, though. My experience with open dungeons comes mainly from Age of Conan, BTW

    What is the difference between an open dungeon and a regular area that just happens to be underground?. At least that's how they felt in Age of Conan. I honestly didn't feel much difference between an open dungeon there, and an open world cave in WoW, except maybe the presence of bosses in some spots.

    Is there anything to prevent groups from just camping the boss spots 24/7 (that's how it was in AoC, anytime you went into a public dungeon you just saw the bosses dead all the time and groups camping their spawn spots). I assume that PvP might be a posibility in that sense, just wondering if it would be the only one, since if there are PvE servers you'd basically be screwed.

    What can men do against such reckless hate?

  • ThorbrandThorbrand West Palm Beach, FLPosts: 1,198Member

    Open world dungeons are the best, MMOs need to get rid of all instancing anyway. People that can't handle playing a MMO with other people even in a dungeon might need to just play a different type of game. Let's get back to the basics (EQ1) when MMOs had depth and content that you couldn't fininsh and no one care about levels.

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