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ZeniMax 'unapologetic' about making Elder Scrolls MMO

AmbrosiaAmorAmbrosiaAmor Miami, FLPosts: 915Member

ZeniMax devs 'unapologetic' about making Elder Scrolls MMO

 

http://massively.joystiq.com/2012/06/01/zenimax-devs-unapologetic-about-making-elder-scrolls-mmo/

 

"ZeniMax Online recently called in to the Game Informer podcast to talk up its Elder Scrolls Online title. Game director Matt Firor and creative director Paul Sage were the devs of record, and the 30-minute chat featured some interesting tidbits.

Firor mentions that the game will release simultaneously on PC and Mac, but ZeniMax has no plans for a console version. Sage talked a bit about the progression system, which, while level-based, does feature skill-based advancement as well. In the current build, characters gain experience in skills that are slotted. Sage also mentions that you do get better with weapons as you wield them, though the gain is not 100 percent usage-based.

There's also a bit of discussion about art style, camera modes, and the decision to MMOify the Elder Scrolls IP. "We're making an MMO, we're unapologetic about that. This is the Elder Scrolls MMO. It's not Skyrim, Skyrim already exists and you can go play Skyrim. We're making the MMO version of the Elder Scrolls, and with that comes some conventions that are different from a console RPG," Firor says."

 

Me: Oh no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no yes no no no

No need to apologize! At least not yet...

image

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Comments

  • ClerigoClerigo MatosinhosPosts: 400Member Common

    Im slicing onions here...

    Well elder scrolls online sounds gre.......dinners on the table...brb!

  • DestaiDestai Detroit, MIPosts: 574Member

    They can be unapologetic all they want. That doesn't guarantee their game will sell. And if the condition of a major IP title like SWTOR is any warning, they'd be well advised to reconsider some ideas. I don't think we know enough about their game to completely dismiss it, but they cannot develop a game without regard to the consumer's tastes. They have multiple audiences to appease and cannot automatically assume that every gamer will jump with glee at their announcements. 

  • AqueAque Hemet, CAPosts: 118Member

    Well if they want to try a new route with Elder Scrolls thats cool. But I hope they dont fall off the road on the way.

    I like the games,  but so far- it just dont sound good....

  • chaintmchaintm Chicago, ILPosts: 972Member Common

    The first time I read information on this from pc gamer I was shocked and interested. As I read on thou I lost interest instantly, the issue I have here is ... "Another generic MMO clone". Sorry but till they say something innovative, I just don't see it happening.

    "The monster created isn't by the company that makes the game, it's by the fans that make it something it never was"

  • VorthanionVorthanion Laguna Vista, TXPosts: 2,121Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Destai

    They can be unapologetic all they want. That doesn't guarantee their game will sell. And if the condition of a major IP title like SWTOR is any warning, they'd be well advised to reconsider some ideas. I don't think we know enough about their game to completely dismiss it, but they cannot develop a game without regard to the consumer's tastes. They have multiple audiences to appease and cannot automatically assume that every gamer will jump with glee at their announcements. 

    They obviously have a target audience in mind.  I don't see them saying in any way or form that everyone should be happy with what they intend for the game.  Every MMO that that has or will release have their primary player base in mind.  It's the general gaming public that seem to think every game that releases should be targeted specifically at them.

    image
  • chaintmchaintm Chicago, ILPosts: 972Member Common

    The only saving grace in my eyes atm is they have a lead developer from the old DAOC game, if they implment any of the rvr seige and such into this game for say guild vs guild of factions vs factions in a seige setting like DAOC with npc hiring henchmens on the wall mounts etc, I could definitly get into something like that. However, the basics of gameplay (from what we know) and the questing just seems like another generic MMO, it will take some innoviation from these guys to bring many to the fold. I hope this guy helps bring some good old combat into this game like that, If so, that might change many peoples opinions.

    "The monster created isn't by the company that makes the game, it's by the fans that make it something it never was"

  • XAPKenXAPKen Northwest, INPosts: 4,933Member Uncommon

    Great link, thanks for the heads up on the quote.


    Ken Fisher - Semi retired old fart Network Administrator, now turned Amateur Game Developer.  I don't Forum PVP.  If you feel I've attacked you, it was probably by accident.  Realm Lords 2 on MMORPG.com
  • PyrateLVPyrateLV Las Vegas, NVPosts: 1,096Member Common
    Originally posted by chaintm

    The only saving grace in my eyes atm is they have a lead developer from the old DAOC game, if they implment any of the rvr seige and such into this game for say guild vs guild of factions vs factions in a seige setting like DAOC with npc hiring henchmens on the wall mounts etc, I could definitly get into something like that. However, the basics of gameplay (from what we know) and the questing just seems like another generic MMO, it will take some innoviation from these guys to bring many to the fold. I hope this guy helps bring some good old combat into this game like that, If so, that might change many peoples opinions.

    I wouldnt call that a saving grace. Matt Firor was the Lead Developer for the Trials of Atlantis expansion. Regarded as the expansion that began the downgrade of DAOC.

    Also, DAOC wasnt that great of a game. If it hadnt been for the RvRvR it actually would have been quite lame.

     

    Tried: EQ2 - AC - EU - HZ - TR - MxO - TTO - WURM - SL - VG:SoH - PotBS - PS - AoC - WAR - DDO - SWTOR
    Played: UO - EQ1 - AO - DAoC - NC - CoH/CoV - SWG - WoW - EVE - AA - LotRO - DFO - STO - FE - MO - RIFT
    Playing: Skyrim
    Following: The Repopulation
    I want a Virtual World, not just a Game.
    ITS TOO HARD! - Matt Firor (ZeniMax)

  • VowOfSilenceVowOfSilence wheePosts: 575Member
    Originally posted by AmbrosiaAmor

    ZeniMax devs 'unapologetic' about making Elder Scrolls MMO

     

    http://massively.joystiq.com/2012/06/01/zenimax-devs-unapologetic-about-making-elder-scrolls-mmo/

     

    "ZeniMax Online recently called in to the Game Informer podcast to talk up its Elder Scrolls Online title. Game director Matt Firor and creative director Paul Sage were the devs of record, and the 30-minute chat featured some interesting tidbits.

    Firor mentions that the game will release simultaneously on PC and Mac, but ZeniMax has no plans for a console version. Sage talked a bit about the progression system, which, while level-based, does feature skill-based advancement as well. In the current build, characters gain experience in skills that are slotted. Sage also mentions that you do get better with weapons as you wield them, though the gain is not 100 percent usage-based.

    There's also a bit of discussion about art style, camera modes, and the decision to MMOify the Elder Scrolls IP. "We're making an MMO, we're unapologetic about that. This is the Elder Scrolls MMO. It's not Skyrim, Skyrim already exists and you can go play Skyrim. We're making the MMO version of the Elder Scrolls, and with that comes some conventions that are different from a console RPG," Firor says."

     

    Me: Oh no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no yes no no no

    No need to apologize! At least not yet...

    When they say "MMOify", they mean "WoWify". I think that says it all.

    This game will probably crash worse then SWTOR.

    Hype train -> Reality

  • PyrateLVPyrateLV Las Vegas, NVPosts: 1,096Member Common
    Originally posted by VowOfSilence
    Originally posted by AmbrosiaAmor

    ZeniMax devs 'unapologetic' about making Elder Scrolls MMO

     

    http://massively.joystiq.com/2012/06/01/zenimax-devs-unapologetic-about-making-elder-scrolls-mmo/

     

    "ZeniMax Online recently called in to the Game Informer podcast to talk up its Elder Scrolls Online title. Game director Matt Firor and creative director Paul Sage were the devs of record, and the 30-minute chat featured some interesting tidbits.

    Firor mentions that the game will release simultaneously on PC and Mac, but ZeniMax has no plans for a console version. Sage talked a bit about the progression system, which, while level-based, does feature skill-based advancement as well. In the current build, characters gain experience in skills that are slotted. Sage also mentions that you do get better with weapons as you wield them, though the gain is not 100 percent usage-based.

    There's also a bit of discussion about art style, camera modes, and the decision to MMOify the Elder Scrolls IP. "We're making an MMO, we're unapologetic about that. This is the Elder Scrolls MMO. It's not Skyrim, Skyrim already exists and you can go play Skyrim. We're making the MMO version of the Elder Scrolls, and with that comes some conventions that are different from a console RPG," Firor says."

     

    Me: Oh no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no yes no no no

    No need to apologize! At least not yet...

    When they say "MMOify", they mean "WoWify". I think that says it all.

    This game will probably crash worse then SWTOR.

    "MMOify" sounds to me like the same Dev speak that SOE used to make SWG more "StarWarsy"

    /inc NGE:TESO

    Tried: EQ2 - AC - EU - HZ - TR - MxO - TTO - WURM - SL - VG:SoH - PotBS - PS - AoC - WAR - DDO - SWTOR
    Played: UO - EQ1 - AO - DAoC - NC - CoH/CoV - SWG - WoW - EVE - AA - LotRO - DFO - STO - FE - MO - RIFT
    Playing: Skyrim
    Following: The Repopulation
    I want a Virtual World, not just a Game.
    ITS TOO HARD! - Matt Firor (ZeniMax)

  • DestaiDestai Detroit, MIPosts: 574Member

    I interpreted their statement as a sort of bravado-driven one. I also do not feel it was appropriate given the current skepticism from the community. Whether they like it or not, Skyrim and Oblivion have garnered a lot of attention for the series and have established the expections of what an Elder Scrolls game is. Of course they cannot appease every player, but they must at least entertain some features that match with those expectations.

    The Elder Scrolls fanbase is extremely skeptical of this endeavor and the last thing they should be doing is being unapologetic. Rather, they should be addressing the concerns and make every effort to remind players this will be a true Elder Scrolls game. It's in their best interest to do so. That being said, several of the videos the community has been given have made strides to doing this. My initial reaction to the game was negative - but the footage I have seen has turned that dismissive attitude into a wait-and-see attitude. 

  • Johnie-MarzJohnie-Marz La Puente, CAPosts: 865Member

    When Skyrim came out there was a lot of talk about it on MMORPG, gamers were saying that Bathesda made a single player game that out MMO'd the MMO's that are currently out.

    The consensus was, if they could take Skyrim (Or at least what was good about it) and make an MMO out of it, it would be a great MMO. Better than the stagnant games that are prevalent throughout the MMO-verse.

    Now Zinimax is saying, We are not making a Skyrim MMO, we are going to make The Elder Scrolls Online, like the MMO's that currently out there. 

     

    After the anger dies down, there is going to be a lot of head scratching, Why did ZiniMax take a game that people wanted to be made into an MMO, why did they take a game people were pointing to as, "That's how it is done" then take away what was good about the game and announce, we are going to make a generic MMO and we aren't going to apologizing about it.

     

  • letsxhatletsxhat battle creek, MIPosts: 156Member

    This dude is confident enough in his idea to sanbag the games features. I'm telling you watch out for this one.

     

    Dedicated engine built from scratch, True RvRvR, Ability progression, whats next? 

  • TorvalTorval Oregon CountryPosts: 7,221Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Johnie-Marz

    When Skyrim came out there was a lot of talk about it on MMORPG, gamers were saying that Bathesda made a single player game that out MMO'd the MMO's that are currently out.

    The consensus was, if they could take Skyrim (Or at least what was good about it) and make an MMO out of it, it would be a great MMO. Better than the stagnant games that are prevalent throughout the MMO-verse.

    Now Zinimax is saying, We are not making a Skyrim MMO, we are going to make The Elder Scrolls Online, like the MMO's that currently out there. 

    After the anger dies down, there is going to be a lot of head scratching, Why did ZiniMax take a game that people wanted to be made into an MMO, why did they take a game people were pointing to as, "That's how it is done" then take away what was good about the game and announce, we are going to make a generic MMO and we aren't going to apologizing about it.

    I don't think it's that hard to understand.  TES single player rpgs as they have been made won't make a good MMO.  Making them into an MMO would remove what makes them good single player games, even if it could be done.  Skyrim couldn't really be an MMO, that's it.  Bottom line.

    They want to make an MMO with their IP and lore so they're making the MMO they want to make just like they make the single player games they want.  Why would they apologize about making the game they want?

  • AldersAlders Jack Burton'sPosts: 1,858Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Johnie-Marz

    When Skyrim came out there was a lot of talk about it on MMORPG, gamers were saying that Bathesda made a single player game that out MMO'd the MMO's that are currently out.

    The consensus was, if they could take Skyrim (Or at least what was good about it) and make an MMO out of it, it would be a great MMO. Better than the stagnant games that are prevalent throughout the MMO-verse.

    Now Zinimax is saying, We are not making a Skyrim MMO, we are going to make The Elder Scrolls Online, like the MMO's that currently out there. 

     

    After the anger dies down, there is going to be a lot of head scratching, Why did ZiniMax take a game that people wanted to be made into an MMO, why did they take a game people were pointing to as, "That's how it is done" then take away what was good about the game and announce, we are going to make a generic MMO and we aren't going to apologizing about it.

     

     

    Because they started working on it so long ago.  Same issue TOR had.  Times change and people are tired of that model but it's too late to change anything now.

  • Johnie-MarzJohnie-Marz La Puente, CAPosts: 865Member
    Originally posted by letsxhat

    This dude is confident enough in his idea to sanbag the games features. I'm telling you watch out for this one.

     

    Dedicated engine built from scratch, True RvRvR, Ability progression, whats next? 

    My question would be; why call it The Elder Scrolls, if the all features that make it Elder Scrolls have been sandbagged.

     

  • TorvalTorval Oregon CountryPosts: 7,221Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Johnie-Marz
    Originally posted by letsxhat

    This dude is confident enough in his idea to sanbag the games features. I'm telling you watch out for this one.

     

    Dedicated engine built from scratch, True RvRvR, Ability progression, whats next? 

    My question would be; why call it The Elder Scrolls, if the all features that make it Elder Scrolls have been sandbagged.

    Why shouldn't they use their own IP and lore.  Why should they have to invent a whole new mythos?  It took a lot of work, time, and money to create what they have so far.  It's a good lore and a good story.  They should stick with it.  If anything, it would be a shame if they confined themselves to the same old thing over and over again.

    An Elder Scrolls MMO doesn't mean they can't make another single player game.  It also doesn't mean they should only have to make the same single player game again.

  • Johnie-MarzJohnie-Marz La Puente, CAPosts: 865Member
    Originally posted by Alders
    Originally posted by Johnie-Marz

    When Skyrim came out there was a lot of talk about it on MMORPG, gamers were saying that Bathesda made a single player game that out MMO'd the MMO's that are currently out.

    The consensus was, if they could take Skyrim (Or at least what was good about it) and make an MMO out of it, it would be a great MMO. Better than the stagnant games that are prevalent throughout the MMO-verse.

    Now Zinimax is saying, We are not making a Skyrim MMO, we are going to make The Elder Scrolls Online, like the MMO's that currently out there. 

     

    After the anger dies down, there is going to be a lot of head scratching, Why did ZiniMax take a game that people wanted to be made into an MMO, why did they take a game people were pointing to as, "That's how it is done" then take away what was good about the game and announce, we are going to make a generic MMO and we aren't going to apologizing about it.

     

     

    Because they started working on it so long ago.  Same issue TOR had.  Times change and people are tired of that model but it's too late to change anything now.

    I guess my problem is, they say, "we are Making an MMO," as if MMO and WoW clone are synonimous. The Secret World and Guild Wars 2 were in development for a long time and they seemed to say, how can we make our MMO different. while, ZeniMax seems to have said, how can we make our game, the same.

    I hate to steal a line from a seriously cheesy movie but Zenimax "Why are you trying so hard to fit in, when you so clearly stand out."

  • ChrisboxChrisbox Monroe, NJPosts: 1,707Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Torvaldr
    Originally posted by Johnie-Marz
    Originally posted by letsxhat

    This dude is confident enough in his idea to sanbag the games features. I'm telling you watch out for this one.

     

    Dedicated engine built from scratch, True RvRvR, Ability progression, whats next? 

    My question would be; why call it The Elder Scrolls, if the all features that make it Elder Scrolls have been sandbagged.

    Why shouldn't they use their own IP and lore.  Why should they have to invent a whole new mythos?  It took a lot of work, time, and money to create what they have so far.  It's a good lore and a good story.  They should stick with it.  If anything, it would be a shame if they confined themselves to the same old thing over and over again.

    An Elder Scrolls MMO doesn't mean they can't make another single player game.  It also doesn't mean they should only have to make the same single player game again.

                   ^ /thread.

    Played-Everything
    Playing-FFXIV:ARR

  • Johnie-MarzJohnie-Marz La Puente, CAPosts: 865Member
    Originally posted by Chrisbox
    Originally posted by Torvaldr
    Originally posted by Johnie-Marz
    Originally posted by letsxhat

    This dude is confident enough in his idea to sanbag the games features. I'm telling you watch out for this one.

     

    Dedicated engine built from scratch, True RvRvR, Ability progression, whats next? 

    My question would be; why call it The Elder Scrolls, if the all features that make it Elder Scrolls have been sandbagged.

    Why shouldn't they use their own IP and lore.  Why should they have to invent a whole new mythos?  It took a lot of work, time, and money to create what they have so far.  It's a good lore and a good story.  They should stick with it.  If anything, it would be a shame if they confined themselves to the same old thing over and over again.

    An Elder Scrolls MMO doesn't mean they can't make another single player game.  It also doesn't mean they should only have to make the same single player game again.

                   ^ /thread.

    But the purpose of using an existing IP is so your MMO has a predisposed fan base at its release. If you use the Elder Scrolls IP but then anger the fan base by Sandbagging what they love about the Elder Scrolls, doesn't that defeat the purpose?

  • RemyVorenderRemyVorender Riverside, RIPosts: 3,266Member Uncommon

    They don't need to apologize to me. I'm not buying the game.

    Played: AA, AC1, AC2, Aion, AO, AoC, CO, CoX, DAoC, DCUO, DN, EVE, EQ1, EQ2,
    ESO, FE, FFXI, FFXIV, FF, GW1, GW2, Istaria, L2, LoTRO, MO, MxO, NW, Rift, RoE,
    Ryzom, SB, SWG, SWTOR, TERA, TSW, WAR, WoW, WURM...

  • letsxhatletsxhat battle creek, MIPosts: 156Member
    Originally posted by Johnie-Marz
    Originally posted by Chrisbox
    Originally posted by Torvaldr
    Originally posted by Johnie-Marz
    Originally posted by letsxhat

    This dude is confident enough in his idea to sanbag the games features. I'm telling you watch out for this one.

     

    Dedicated engine built from scratch, True RvRvR, Ability progression, whats next? 

    My question would be; why call it The Elder Scrolls, if the all features that make it Elder Scrolls have been sandbagged.

    Why shouldn't they use their own IP and lore.  Why should they have to invent a whole new mythos?  It took a lot of work, time, and money to create what they have so far.  It's a good lore and a good story.  They should stick with it.  If anything, it would be a shame if they confined themselves to the same old thing over and over again.

    An Elder Scrolls MMO doesn't mean they can't make another single player game.  It also doesn't mean they should only have to make the same single player game again.

                   ^ /thread.

    But the purpose of using an existing IP is so your MMO has a predisposed fan base at its release. If you use the Elder Scrolls IP but then anger the fan base by Sandbagging what they love about the Elder Scrolls, doesn't that defeat the purpose?

    Sandbag as in slow rolling, or holding out on features. Down playing what the game does have. "Yeah were just making your typical mmorpg." As information comes out this game looks anything but typical.

  • Johnie-MarzJohnie-Marz La Puente, CAPosts: 865Member
    Originally posted by letsxhat
    Originally posted by Johnie-Marz
    Originally posted by Chrisbox
    Originally posted by Torvaldr
    Originally posted by Johnie-Marz
    Originally posted by letsxhat

    This dude is confident enough in his idea to sanbag the games features. I'm telling you watch out for this one.

     

    Dedicated engine built from scratch, True RvRvR, Ability progression, whats next? 

    My question would be; why call it The Elder Scrolls, if the all features that make it Elder Scrolls have been sandbagged.

    Why shouldn't they use their own IP and lore.  Why should they have to invent a whole new mythos?  It took a lot of work, time, and money to create what they have so far.  It's a good lore and a good story.  They should stick with it.  If anything, it would be a shame if they confined themselves to the same old thing over and over again.

    An Elder Scrolls MMO doesn't mean they can't make another single player game.  It also doesn't mean they should only have to make the same single player game again.

                   ^ /thread.

    But the purpose of using an existing IP is so your MMO has a predisposed fan base at its release. If you use the Elder Scrolls IP but then anger the fan base by Sandbagging what they love about the Elder Scrolls, doesn't that defeat the purpose?

    Sandbag as in slow rolling, or holding out on features. 

    Sandbag as in; that is a quote from letsxhat

  • letsxhatletsxhat battle creek, MIPosts: 156Member

     

    Sandbagging
    From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
     
    Sandbagging, hiding the strength, skill or difficulty of something or someone early in an engagement,
     
    I would like to take credit but alas I can not ;)
  • adam_noxadam_nox hays, KSPosts: 2,036Member Uncommon

    Few people cared about the lore, or the name, or the setting.  Such things are pretty generic when it comes to medieval fantasy.

     

    What I think people liked about elder scrolls was how you lived in it.  How you could run from one end to the other, how you could explore.  I don't think the combat was without it's flaws, but to exist in real time, without odd cooldowns and castbars is distinctive and integral to the immersive nature of the franchise.

     

    If they want to defend the game, counter the criticisms, clarify how the game won't be a WoW clone, then they should do that.  The fact that they've been given many opportunities to do so and instead have just said how they are fine with ticking people off indicates that it will be just that: a sad WoW clone exploiting the elder scrolls popularity.

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