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Elder Scrolls Online devs talk questing and public dungeons

PyrateLVPyrateLV Las Vegas, NVPosts: 1,096Member Common

http://massively.joystiq.com/2012/05/30/elder-scrolls-online-devs-talk-questing-and-public-dungeons/

 

 "public dungeons, which game director Matt Firor says haven't been seen in an MMO since EverQuest."

 

 

DAOC ring any bells for ya?

or Vanguard, EQ2, SWG, RIFT??????

 

This guy really needs to just quit while he is behind

Tried: EQ2 - AC - EU - HZ - TR - MxO - TTO - WURM - SL - VG:SoH - PotBS - PS - AoC - WAR - DDO - SWTOR
Played: UO - EQ1 - AO - DAoC - NC - CoH/CoV - SWG - WoW - EVE - AA - LotRO - DFO - STO - FE - MO - RIFT
Playing: Skyrim
Following: The Repopulation
I want a Virtual World, not just a Game.
ITS TOO HARD! - Matt Firor (ZeniMax)

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Comments

  • SilverbarrSilverbarr AberdeenPosts: 306Member

    I believe he meant in scale, the public dungeons in EQ were pretty damn vast as far as I can remember - plus since the lead designer was part of the DAoC team I doubt they would want to constantly bring it up?

     

    M

    "Regard your soldiers as your children, and they will follow you into the deepest valleys. Look on them as your own beloved sons, and they will stand by you even unto death!"
    - Sun Tzu, the Art of War

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  • ShakyMoShakyMo BradfordPosts: 7,207Member
    Pyrate: since when did rift have public dungeons?

    Also how does the public dungeons thing fit in with your usual "just like swtor" diatribe?

    Surely public dungeons you can just walk into are more TES than wow clone?
  • PyrateLVPyrateLV Las Vegas, NVPosts: 1,096Member Common
    Originally posted by ShakyMo
    Pyrate: since when did rift have public dungeons?

    Also how does the public dungeons thing fit in with your usual "just like swtor" diatribe?

    Surely public dungeons you can just walk into are more TES than wow clone?

    Ok, I might be wrong about RIFT. I could have sworn they have a form of public dungeons.

    Point is, there ARE games after EQ that have PDs

     

    And just WHERE did I say anything about "just like SWTOR"?

     

    My usual diatribe? LOL. Because I think (IMO) that what Zenimax is doing is a completely wrong way to take this game, my OPINION is diatribe?

     

    I could call your blind devotion to another derivative Themepark Clone something as well

    Tried: EQ2 - AC - EU - HZ - TR - MxO - TTO - WURM - SL - VG:SoH - PotBS - PS - AoC - WAR - DDO - SWTOR
    Played: UO - EQ1 - AO - DAoC - NC - CoH/CoV - SWG - WoW - EVE - AA - LotRO - DFO - STO - FE - MO - RIFT
    Playing: Skyrim
    Following: The Repopulation
    I want a Virtual World, not just a Game.
    ITS TOO HARD! - Matt Firor (ZeniMax)

  • ShakyMoShakyMo BradfordPosts: 7,207Member
    So you still maintain this game is a generic wow clone, despite just about everything they say in the interview being the opposite of wow, open dungeons, no hubs etc..

    The mmo is an open ended themepark.
    Skyrim is an open ended themepark.
    Skyrim is not a sandox, its just less themeparky than your typical modern rpgs like mass effect.
  • PyrateLVPyrateLV Las Vegas, NVPosts: 1,096Member Common
    Originally posted by ShakyMo
    So you still maintain this game is a generic wow clone, despite just about everything they say in the interview being the opposite of wow, open dungeons, no hubs etc..

    The mmo is an open ended themepark.
    Skyrim is an open ended themepark.
    Skyrim is not a sandox, its just less themeparky than your typical modern rpgs like mass effect.

    I have never said its a WoW or SWTOR clone.

    Its a Themepark Clone. Meaning they are bringing too many of the same fomulaic features of the other themparks and slapping an Elder Scrolls label on it.

     

    Sure they say they are making some breaks from the standard (No quest hubs, open dungeons, 3way PvP), but they are still going with the redundancy of Classes, Race/Faction locks, TAB Target, focus on Solo play, insatnced "personal" story, and many other Themepark standards.

    Zenimax has even said they are aiming at the Traditional Mainstream Themepark MMO Standard.

    Skyrim (and the ES series as a whole) is way more sandboxy than it is themeparky

    EVERYTHING they say shows TESO to be doing the exact opposite

    Tried: EQ2 - AC - EU - HZ - TR - MxO - TTO - WURM - SL - VG:SoH - PotBS - PS - AoC - WAR - DDO - SWTOR
    Played: UO - EQ1 - AO - DAoC - NC - CoH/CoV - SWG - WoW - EVE - AA - LotRO - DFO - STO - FE - MO - RIFT
    Playing: Skyrim
    Following: The Repopulation
    I want a Virtual World, not just a Game.
    ITS TOO HARD! - Matt Firor (ZeniMax)

  • KuppaKuppa Boulder, COPosts: 3,292Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by ShakyMo
    So you still maintain this game is a generic wow clone, despite just about everything they say in the interview being the opposite of wow, open dungeons, no hubs etc..

    The mmo is an open ended themepark.
    Skyrim is an open ended themepark.
    Skyrim is not a sandox, its just less themeparky than your typical modern rpgs like mass effect.

    Actually, based on the limited info they have given it seems like this game will be more like GW1. All I've read is about instanced stuff. Aside from the public dungeons Im not sure we know how the "open world" works.

    image


    image

  • ChrisboxChrisbox Monroe, NJPosts: 1,707Member Uncommon

    "When you think back to the fun MMOG moments in the first generation, it's standing there, terrified, in an enclosed space, waiting for someone to come along and save you. We can't do that punitive gameplay that they did in those days, but we can put people together in places where they want to work with others," Firor says.
     

    Its more then obvious pyrate, that you are obsessed with embarassing yourself infront of the community by expressing your hatred for this game.  It is also clear that working on putting the MMO back in MMORPG is exactly what modern games need, and the devs are picking up on it.  No more of this instanced and phasing BS - im sure most would agree.  Its not like solo RPG players will be playing this game since they're all crying about the removal of elder scrolls mechanics ( have discussed this many times before, its better off they werent brought into the MMO space )  so adding incentive to group will surely enchance the open world experience for people that do play this game.

    Played-Everything
    Playing-FFXIV:ARR

  • VannorVannor YorkshirePosts: 2,968Member Uncommon

    As soon as I saw the title to this the first thing I thought was 'Why are people buying into this like it's a new idea?' Vanguard has massive public dungeons and Moria in LOTRO is probably the biggest public dungeon ever in an MMO. At the end of the day public dungeons are just the same as any other area with a new skin and a more closed layout design...

    EDIT: Don't get me wrong though, I love public dungeons and think they really help with immersion and setting. It's just not a new idea and definately shouldn't be considered a 'feature'. As for TESO, I have no idea what to expect from the game at this point.

  • gaeanprayergaeanprayer Somewhere Out There, PAPosts: 2,320Member Uncommon

    No pubic dungeons since EQ? LoTRO and Ragnarok Online have public dungeons, the latter has had them since its conception. In fact, back when I used to play, that's pretty much where all the party recruiting took place, inside the dungeons. Atlantica Online, Cabal, LoM, Lineage 1/2, so on and so forth. I get the feeling this dude hasn't actually played many MMOs outside of the one's he's had to work on. I'll grant him that public dungeons are far more rare than the phased/instanced kind, but they didn't stop at EQ.

    Personally, I wish they would have. I get that people like the more open feel of running into other people, but I personally never enjoyed sitting around in L2 waiting for things to spawn, or fighting with another group over who gets the spot. There are people that like that kind of thing, I'm not one of them, and the prevalence of instanced dungeons makes me question its overall appeal to gamers beyond the most vocal few.

     

    "Forums aren't for intelligent discussion; they're for blow-hards with unwavering opinions."

  • PyrateLVPyrateLV Las Vegas, NVPosts: 1,096Member Common
    Originally posted by Chrisbox

     

    Its more then obvious pyrate, that you are obsessed with embarassing yourself infront of the community by expressing your hatred for this game. 

    Your blind fanboism to mediocrity, redundancy and the mainstream formulaic standard is embarassing as well.

     

    I would much rather be embarassed (with my "diatribe and hate") by speaking out against this derivative standard that has plagued (yes its a PLAGUE!!) MMOs for the last 5+ years, than to just bend over to it like some.

    Tried: EQ2 - AC - EU - HZ - TR - MxO - TTO - WURM - SL - VG:SoH - PotBS - PS - AoC - WAR - DDO - SWTOR
    Played: UO - EQ1 - AO - DAoC - NC - CoH/CoV - SWG - WoW - EVE - AA - LotRO - DFO - STO - FE - MO - RIFT
    Playing: Skyrim
    Following: The Repopulation
    I want a Virtual World, not just a Game.
    ITS TOO HARD! - Matt Firor (ZeniMax)

  • L0C0ManL0C0Man Puerto OrdazPosts: 1,065Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by gaeanprayer

    No pubic dungeons since EQ? LoTRO and Ragnarok Online have public dungeons, the latter has had them since its conception. In fact, back when I used to play, that's pretty much where all the party recruiting took place, inside the dungeons. Atlantica Online, Cabal, LoM, Lineage 1/2, so on and so forth. I get the feeling this dude hasn't actually played many MMOs outside of the one's he's had to work on. I'll grant him that public dungeons are far more rare than the phased/instanced kind, but they didn't stop at EQ.

    Personally, I wish they would have. I get that people like the more open feel of running into other people, but I personally never enjoyed sitting around in L2 waiting for things to spawn, or fighting with another group over who gets the spot. There are people that like that kind of thing, I'm not one of them, and the prevalence of instanced dungeons makes me question its overall appeal to gamers beyond the most vocal few.

     

    Age of Conan also had public dungeons, but weren't very good on PvE servers because anytime you entered all the bosses would be dead and you would see one (or several) groups camping each of the bosses spawn areas.

    What can men do against such reckless hate?

  • ChrisboxChrisbox Monroe, NJPosts: 1,707Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by PyrateLV
    Originally posted by Chrisbox

     

    Its more then obvious pyrate, that you are obsessed with embarassing yourself infront of the community by expressing your hatred for this game. 

    Your blind fanboism to mediocrity, redundancy and the mainstream formulaic standard is embarassing as well.

     

    I would much rather be embarassed (with my "diatribe and hate") by speaking out against this derivative standard that has plagued (yes its a PLAGUE!!) MMOs for the last 5+ years, than to just bend over to it like some.

    Just because one does not agree with your statement, does not make them blind nor mediocre.  That "standard" that has been set to themeparks for so long now is finally starting to deteriorate, and theres millions of people enjoying the games that are taking away from it.  If anything, you are too blind in your own beliefs to see this.  But you also failed to copy the part of my comment where I recognize those who are crying about the loss of elder scrolls mechanics in this game, which leads me to my original point of you still expressing hatred for this game knowing it isn't intended to be played by you.

    Played-Everything
    Playing-FFXIV:ARR

  • GreenishBlueGreenishBlue Baltimore, MDPosts: 263Member

    I swear I saw a public dungeon in WAR

    image
  • mmaizemmaize Hutto, TXPosts: 274Member
    Originally posted by Chrisbox
    Originally posted by PyrateLV
    Originally posted by Chrisbox

     

    Its more then obvious pyrate, that you are obsessed with embarassing yourself infront of the community by expressing your hatred for this game. 

    Your blind fanboism to mediocrity, redundancy and the mainstream formulaic standard is embarassing as well.

     

    I would much rather be embarassed (with my "diatribe and hate") by speaking out against this derivative standard that has plagued (yes its a PLAGUE!!) MMOs for the last 5+ years, than to just bend over to it like some.

    Just because one does not agree with your statement, does not make them blind nor mediocre.  That "standard" that has been set to themeparks for so long now is finally starting to deteriorate, and theres millions of people enjoying the games that are taking away from it.  If anything, you are too blind in your own beliefs to see this.  But you also failed to copy the part of my comment where I recognize those who are crying about the loss of elder scrolls mechanics in this game, which leads me to my original point of you still expressing hatred for this game knowing it isn't intended to be played by you.


    Actually, Pyrate has the right of it.  Just because your generation of gamers is eating the "crap" sandwich because it's all they have known, doesn't make it the new acceptable standard especially to those who have had the best philly cheesteak of their lives.  Your generation of games pales in comparison to most of the older stuff and any time something older is better other than wine or art or cheese maybe...it's not a good thing.  The only thing the new generation can claim is graphical improvements other than that everything else has gone down the toilet in the name of the almight dollar and you just keep eating the crap and telling them how great it tastes.

    Hell Starflight (Yep..the dreaded space genre..go figure) made back in '86 or something like that and was DOS based still has superior RPG aspects to it than the majority of games made today.  That is beyond sad.  And while yes this was a stand alone game vs. an MMO the point  is still the same.  I can take Ultima Online and go on about the attention to details that game had that allowed someone to do much more than the whole "wash, rinse, repeat" droll of PvP and PvE grinding that is used today.

    So sorry you have no idea what your talking about other than a keen ability to drink the koolaid.

  • FearumFearum Cinnaminson, NJPosts: 1,166Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by PyrateLV
    Originally posted by ShakyMo
    Pyrate: since when did rift have public dungeons?

    Also how does the public dungeons thing fit in with your usual "just like swtor" diatribe?

    Surely public dungeons you can just walk into are more TES than wow clone?

    Ok, I might be wrong about RIFT. I could have sworn they have a form of public dungeons.

    Point is, there ARE games after EQ that have PDs

     Give some examples from your vast knowledge base you get all this wonderful info from

    And just WHERE did I say anything about "just like SWTOR"?

     

    My usual diatribe? LOL. Because I think (IMO) that what Zenimax is doing is a completely wrong way to take this game, my OPINION is diatribe?

     

    I could call your blind devotion to another derivative Themepark Clone something as well

    Your huge list of games you have played in your sig, you seem to know nothing about. How can anyone take your nerd rage seriously when your comparing this game to others when you obviously don't know what were in those games? Have you actually even played any of them?

    Reading through some of your old posts you support games that fail and to me usually suck, so please keep hating on this one.

  • PyrateLVPyrateLV Las Vegas, NVPosts: 1,096Member Common
    Originally posted by Fearum
    Originally posted by PyrateLV
    Originally posted by ShakyMo
    Pyrate: since when did rift have public dungeons?

    Also how does the public dungeons thing fit in with your usual "just like swtor" diatribe?

    Surely public dungeons you can just walk into are more TES than wow clone?

    Ok, I might be wrong about RIFT. I could have sworn they have a form of public dungeons.

    Point is, there ARE games after EQ that have PDs

     Give some examples from your vast knowledge base you get all this wonderful info from

    Games that I have played that had PDs: AO, DAOC, EQ2,SWG,LOTRO,FE,DF,MO. there are probably others I have forgotten.

    Sorry I mixed up RIFT in all those MMOs

     

    And just WHERE did I say anything about "just like SWTOR"?

     

    My usual diatribe? LOL. Because I think (IMO) that what Zenimax is doing is a completely wrong way to take this game, my OPINION is diatribe?

     

    I could call your blind devotion to another derivative Themepark Clone something as well

    Your huge list of games you have played in your sig, you seem to know nothing about. How can anyone take your nerd rage seriously when your comparing this game to others when you obviously don't know what were in those games? Have you actually even played any of them?

    Reading through some of your old posts you support games that fail and to me usually suck, so please keep hating on this one.

    Yes, I have played all of them. Some Betas, some free trials, some I bought and subbed to for months, even years.

    Yes I have supported some games that have sucked ass. I have also unsupported them because they sucked ass

    I am compairing TESO with some of those others because it clearly IS like many of them. Only this time in Elder Scrolls Flavor! YUM!

    My "nerd rage", as you call it, is actually severe disappointment at the fact that yet ANOTHER big IP is being taken down the same Mainstream Formulaic Themepark road and I for one am against it and will speak out against it.

     

    Tried: EQ2 - AC - EU - HZ - TR - MxO - TTO - WURM - SL - VG:SoH - PotBS - PS - AoC - WAR - DDO - SWTOR
    Played: UO - EQ1 - AO - DAoC - NC - CoH/CoV - SWG - WoW - EVE - AA - LotRO - DFO - STO - FE - MO - RIFT
    Playing: Skyrim
    Following: The Repopulation
    I want a Virtual World, not just a Game.
    ITS TOO HARD! - Matt Firor (ZeniMax)

  • PyrateLVPyrateLV Las Vegas, NVPosts: 1,096Member Common
    Originally posted by Chrisbox
    Originally posted by PyrateLV
    Originally posted by Chrisbox

     

    Its more then obvious pyrate, that you are obsessed with embarassing yourself infront of the community by expressing your hatred for this game. 

    Your blind fanboism to mediocrity, redundancy and the mainstream formulaic standard is embarassing as well.

     

    I would much rather be embarassed (with my "diatribe and hate") by speaking out against this derivative standard that has plagued (yes its a PLAGUE!!) MMOs for the last 5+ years, than to just bend over to it like some.

    Just because one does not agree with your statement, does not make them blind nor mediocre.  That "standard" that has been set to themeparks for so long now is finally starting to deteriorate, and theres millions of people enjoying the games that are taking away from it.  If anything, you are too blind in your own beliefs to see this.  But you also failed to copy the part of my comment where I recognize those who are crying about the loss of elder scrolls mechanics in this game, which leads me to my original point of you still expressing hatred for this game knowing it isn't intended to be played by you.

    And thus is why my "diatribe" concerning TESO is so vile to you.

    Im a MMO sandbox fan and TESO isnt intended for me

    Im an Elder Scrolls fan and TESO isnt intended for me

    Well, who the hell is it intended for?

    Oh, the Standard Mainstream Themepark fan

    In other words YOU

     

    Can you see why I (and many others) arent pleased??

    Not because its a game for you, but because they are sacrificing 2 fan bases for 1 mainstream one

     

    Tried: EQ2 - AC - EU - HZ - TR - MxO - TTO - WURM - SL - VG:SoH - PotBS - PS - AoC - WAR - DDO - SWTOR
    Played: UO - EQ1 - AO - DAoC - NC - CoH/CoV - SWG - WoW - EVE - AA - LotRO - DFO - STO - FE - MO - RIFT
    Playing: Skyrim
    Following: The Repopulation
    I want a Virtual World, not just a Game.
    ITS TOO HARD! - Matt Firor (ZeniMax)

  • ChrisboxChrisbox Monroe, NJPosts: 1,707Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by mmaize
    Originally posted by Chrisbox
    Originally posted by PyrateLV
    Originally posted by Chrisbox

     

    Its more then obvious pyrate, that you are obsessed with embarassing yourself infront of the community by expressing your hatred for this game. 

    Your blind fanboism to mediocrity, redundancy and the mainstream formulaic standard is embarassing as well.

     

    I would much rather be embarassed (with my "diatribe and hate") by speaking out against this derivative standard that has plagued (yes its a PLAGUE!!) MMOs for the last 5+ years, than to just bend over to it like some.

    Just because one does not agree with your statement, does not make them blind nor mediocre.  That "standard" that has been set to themeparks for so long now is finally starting to deteriorate, and theres millions of people enjoying the games that are taking away from it.  If anything, you are too blind in your own beliefs to see this.  But you also failed to copy the part of my comment where I recognize those who are crying about the loss of elder scrolls mechanics in this game, which leads me to my original point of you still expressing hatred for this game knowing it isn't intended to be played by you.


    Actually, Pyrate has the right of it.  Just because your generation of gamers is eating the "crap" sandwich because it's all they have known, doesn't make it the new acceptable standard especially to those who have had the best philly cheesteak of their lives.  Your generation of games pales in comparison to most of the older stuff and any time something older is better other than wine or art or cheese maybe...it's not a good thing.  The only thing the new generation can claim is graphical improvements other than that everything else has gone down the toilet in the name of the almight dollar and you just keep eating the crap and telling them how great it tastes.

    Hell Starflight (Yep..the dreaded space genre..go figure) made back in '86 or something like that and was DOS based still has superior RPG aspects to it than the majority of games made today.  That is beyond sad.  And while yes this was a stand alone game vs. an MMO the point  is still the same.  I can take Ultima Online and go on about the attention to details that game had that allowed someone to do much more than the whole "wash, rinse, repeat" droll of PvP and PvE grinding that is used today.

    So sorry you have no idea what your talking about other than a keen ability to drink the koolaid.

    I think your misunderstanding quite a bit.  We are discussing elder scrolls being brought into the MMO genre correct? This "crap" sandwich, that you call traditional mmo format has been around for quite a while now, and is extremely popular.  Now I myself am a big fan of both themeparks and sanbox games, but more rapidly I see the bar being set high for the next themepark MMO.  A WoW clone will not survive, it has been proven many times.  With all the recent MMO fails, there have been innovations (TERA's combat anyone?).  All across the board we can see classic mechanics being variated on for the better- Rift bringing in 3 faction world pvp, ESO starting with 3 faction world pvp, ESO bringing back public dungeons, GW2 world events.  Notice how all of these things encourage player interaction, its about time the themepark genre put the MMO back in MMORPG and ESO is an obvious step in that direction, just as other MMO's to come will be.  You can dwell on past innovations in the genre all you want but theres a reason those games are dead and we should be thinking about the road infront of us.

    Played-Everything
    Playing-FFXIV:ARR

  • ChrisboxChrisbox Monroe, NJPosts: 1,707Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by PyrateLV
    Originally posted by Chrisbox
    Originally posted by PyrateLV
    Originally posted by Chrisbox

     

    Its more then obvious pyrate, that you are obsessed with embarassing yourself infront of the community by expressing your hatred for this game. 

    Your blind fanboism to mediocrity, redundancy and the mainstream formulaic standard is embarassing as well.

     

    I would much rather be embarassed (with my "diatribe and hate") by speaking out against this derivative standard that has plagued (yes its a PLAGUE!!) MMOs for the last 5+ years, than to just bend over to it like some.

    Just because one does not agree with your statement, does not make them blind nor mediocre.  That "standard" that has been set to themeparks for so long now is finally starting to deteriorate, and theres millions of people enjoying the games that are taking away from it.  If anything, you are too blind in your own beliefs to see this.  But you also failed to copy the part of my comment where I recognize those who are crying about the loss of elder scrolls mechanics in this game, which leads me to my original point of you still expressing hatred for this game knowing it isn't intended to be played by you.

    And thus is why my "diatribe" concerning TESO is so vile to you.

    Im a MMO sandbox fan and TESO isnt intended for me

    Im an Elder Scrolls fan and TESO isnt intended for me

    Well, who the hell is it intended for?

    Oh, the Standard Mainstream Themepark fan

    In other words YOU

     

    Can you see why I (and many others) arent pleased??

    Not because its a game for you, but because they are sacrificing 2 fan bases for 1 mainstream one

     

    Well to start off Im in no way, a standard mainstreamist.  I've played many, tried many just like yourself, still playing TERA as well. But I dont have to set a signature to make sure people know.  Im a sandbox fan too, EVE is one of my favorite games of all time and im still playing it.  Now for ESO, I dont think any of us can help where zenimax has decided to place the elderscrolls but they chose the themepark genre.  What there doing with it, in my opinion, will be another step in the right direction for the genre not to mention its a HUGE genre.  The only problem I have with this "diatribe" is that its like discussing music with a group of progressive metal fans, though you dont listen to the genre and could care less where its going.

    Played-Everything
    Playing-FFXIV:ARR

  • DistopiaDistopia Baltimore, MDPosts: 16,900Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by PyrateLV

    Your blind fanboism to mediocrity, redundancy and the mainstream formulaic standard is embarassing as well.

     

    I would much rather be embarassed (with my "diatribe and hate") by speaking out against this derivative standard that has plagued (yes its a PLAGUE!!) MMOs for the last 5+ years, than to just bend over to it like some.

    What does what he said have to do with "Blind Fanboism"? Holding out judgment until we see what the game looks and play's like, has nothing to do with being a fanboi. We know snippets of the overall structure of this game and that's it. I sure as hell am no fan of something I know basically nothing about.

    Who's bendng over to it at this point?

    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson

    It is a sign of a defeated man, to attack at ones character in the face of logic and reason- Me

  • PyrateLVPyrateLV Las Vegas, NVPosts: 1,096Member Common
    Originally posted by Chrisbox   I've played many, tried many just like yourself, still playing TERA as well. But I dont have to set a signature to make sure people know.

    LOL

    I put those games in a sig because too many times Id post an opinion and get a "Oh yeah? What games have you played" response.

    Now that I have it in a sig I get "Youre an arrogant ass for displaying those games" response.

    Tried: EQ2 - AC - EU - HZ - TR - MxO - TTO - WURM - SL - VG:SoH - PotBS - PS - AoC - WAR - DDO - SWTOR
    Played: UO - EQ1 - AO - DAoC - NC - CoH/CoV - SWG - WoW - EVE - AA - LotRO - DFO - STO - FE - MO - RIFT
    Playing: Skyrim
    Following: The Repopulation
    I want a Virtual World, not just a Game.
    ITS TOO HARD! - Matt Firor (ZeniMax)

  • mmaizemmaize Hutto, TXPosts: 274Member
    Originally posted by Chrisbox
    Originally posted by mmaize
    Originally posted by Chrisbox
    Originally posted by PyrateLV
    Originally posted by Chrisbox

     

    Its more then obvious pyrate, that you are obsessed with embarassing yourself infront of the community by expressing your hatred for this game. 

    Your blind fanboism to mediocrity, redundancy and the mainstream formulaic standard is embarassing as well.

     

    I would much rather be embarassed (with my "diatribe and hate") by speaking out against this derivative standard that has plagued (yes its a PLAGUE!!) MMOs for the last 5+ years, than to just bend over to it like some.

    Just because one does not agree with your statement, does not make them blind nor mediocre.  That "standard" that has been set to themeparks for so long now is finally starting to deteriorate, and theres millions of people enjoying the games that are taking away from it.  If anything, you are too blind in your own beliefs to see this.  But you also failed to copy the part of my comment where I recognize those who are crying about the loss of elder scrolls mechanics in this game, which leads me to my original point of you still expressing hatred for this game knowing it isn't intended to be played by you.


    Actually, Pyrate has the right of it.  Just because your generation of gamers is eating the "crap" sandwich because it's all they have known, doesn't make it the new acceptable standard especially to those who have had the best philly cheesteak of their lives.  Your generation of games pales in comparison to most of the older stuff and any time something older is better other than wine or art or cheese maybe...it's not a good thing.  The only thing the new generation can claim is graphical improvements other than that everything else has gone down the toilet in the name of the almight dollar and you just keep eating the crap and telling them how great it tastes.

    Hell Starflight (Yep..the dreaded space genre..go figure) made back in '86 or something like that and was DOS based still has superior RPG aspects to it than the majority of games made today.  That is beyond sad.  And while yes this was a stand alone game vs. an MMO the point  is still the same.  I can take Ultima Online and go on about the attention to details that game had that allowed someone to do much more than the whole "wash, rinse, repeat" droll of PvP and PvE grinding that is used today.

    So sorry you have no idea what your talking about other than a keen ability to drink the koolaid.

    I think your misunderstanding quite a bit.  We are discussing elder scrolls being brought into the MMO genre correct? This "crap" sandwich, that you call traditional mmo format has been around for quite a while now, and is extremely popular.  Now I myself am a big fan of both themeparks and sanbox games, but more rapidly I see the bar being set high for the next themepark MMO.  A WoW clone will not survive, it has been proven many times.  With all the recent MMO fails, there have been innovations (TERA's combat anyone?).  All across the board we can see classic mechanics being variated on for the better- Rift bringing in 3 faction world pvp, ESO starting with 3 faction world pvp, ESO bringing back public dungeons, GW2 world events.  Notice how all of these things encourage player interaction, its about time the themepark genre put the MMO back in MMORPG and ESO is an obvious step in that direction, just as other MMO's to come will be.  You can dwell on past innovations in the genre all you want but theres a reason those games are dead and we should be thinking about the road infront of us.


    Nope no misunderstanding I got it just fine.  And the reply is the same.  These innovations as you call them aren't really innovating with the one exception perhaps being TERA's combat which some love and some hate...but in my book it's new so I put a check in innovative.  3 faction?  Done in DAoC and was successful in my opinion but not innovative.  World events?  Rift did do that but then so did Asheron's Call.   It seems we want the same thing in terms of seeing innovation I think the difference is that Pyrate or at least from what I gathered, and I put myself in that group, believes that Sandbox is the future which is one of the largest factors that makes Skyrim as successful as it is.  And we can argue how many aspects of it is themebox vs. sandbox all day but it leans far more toward sandbox than themepark being that it's open ended, you can follow the story if you want sure but you can also land into the story by doing your own thing and as you explore the quests land in your lap.  There are some skillsets yes but you can max out as you see fit rather than pick a tree to go down.  There is no set class but rather you can pick the skill sets you like and you do that by visiting places or people who help you learn those skills or through performing them on your own.  

     Leaning too far toward themepark is why these MMOs fail.   Too much worry about making money as fast as possible.  Copy/Paste, rails, lead the player rather than the player take the lead....all wrong.

  • ChrisboxChrisbox Monroe, NJPosts: 1,707Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by mmaize
    Originally posted by Chrisbox
    Originally posted by mmaize
    Originally posted by Chrisbox
    Originally posted by PyrateLV
    Originally posted by Chrisbox

     

    Its more then obvious pyrate, that you are obsessed with embarassing yourself infront of the community by expressing your hatred for this game. 

    Your blind fanboism to mediocrity, redundancy and the mainstream formulaic standard is embarassing as well.

     

    I would much rather be embarassed (with my "diatribe and hate") by speaking out against this derivative standard that has plagued (yes its a PLAGUE!!) MMOs for the last 5+ years, than to just bend over to it like some.

    Just because one does not agree with your statement, does not make them blind nor mediocre.  That "standard" that has been set to themeparks for so long now is finally starting to deteriorate, and theres millions of people enjoying the games that are taking away from it.  If anything, you are too blind in your own beliefs to see this.  But you also failed to copy the part of my comment where I recognize those who are crying about the loss of elder scrolls mechanics in this game, which leads me to my original point of you still expressing hatred for this game knowing it isn't intended to be played by you.


    Actually, Pyrate has the right of it.  Just because your generation of gamers is eating the "crap" sandwich because it's all they have known, doesn't make it the new acceptable standard especially to those who have had the best philly cheesteak of their lives.  Your generation of games pales in comparison to most of the older stuff and any time something older is better other than wine or art or cheese maybe...it's not a good thing.  The only thing the new generation can claim is graphical improvements other than that everything else has gone down the toilet in the name of the almight dollar and you just keep eating the crap and telling them how great it tastes.

    Hell Starflight (Yep..the dreaded space genre..go figure) made back in '86 or something like that and was DOS based still has superior RPG aspects to it than the majority of games made today.  That is beyond sad.  And while yes this was a stand alone game vs. an MMO the point  is still the same.  I can take Ultima Online and go on about the attention to details that game had that allowed someone to do much more than the whole "wash, rinse, repeat" droll of PvP and PvE grinding that is used today.

    So sorry you have no idea what your talking about other than a keen ability to drink the koolaid.

    I think your misunderstanding quite a bit.  We are discussing elder scrolls being brought into the MMO genre correct? This "crap" sandwich, that you call traditional mmo format has been around for quite a while now, and is extremely popular.  Now I myself am a big fan of both themeparks and sanbox games, but more rapidly I see the bar being set high for the next themepark MMO.  A WoW clone will not survive, it has been proven many times.  With all the recent MMO fails, there have been innovations (TERA's combat anyone?).  All across the board we can see classic mechanics being variated on for the better- Rift bringing in 3 faction world pvp, ESO starting with 3 faction world pvp, ESO bringing back public dungeons, GW2 world events.  Notice how all of these things encourage player interaction, its about time the themepark genre put the MMO back in MMORPG and ESO is an obvious step in that direction, just as other MMO's to come will be.  You can dwell on past innovations in the genre all you want but theres a reason those games are dead and we should be thinking about the road infront of us.


    Nope no misunderstanding I got it just fine.  And the reply is the same.  These innovations as you call them aren't really innovating with the one exception perhaps being TERA's combat which some love and some hate...but in my book it's new so I put a check in innovative.  3 faction?  Done in DAoC and was successful in my opinion but not innovative.  World events?  Rift did do that but then so did Asheron's Call.   It seems we want the same thing in terms of seeing innovation I think the difference is that Pyrate or at least from what I gathered, and I put myself in that group, believes that Sandbox is the future which is one of the largest factors that makes Skyrim as successful as it is.  And we can argue how many aspects of it is themebox vs. sandbox all day but it leans far more toward sandbox than themepark being that it's open ended, you can follow the story if you want sure but you can also land into the story by doing your own thing and as you explore the quests land in your lap.  There are some skillsets yes but you can max out as you see fit rather than pick a tree to go down.  There is no set class but rather you can pick the skill sets you like and you do that by visiting places or people who help you learn those skills or through performing them on your own.  

     Leaning too far toward themepark is why these MMOs fail.   Too much worry about making money as fast as possible.  Copy/Paste, rails, lead the player rather than the player take the lead....all wrong.

    Im well aware of what a sandbox is, my personal favorite, EVE ive been playing for a good amount of time now.  If you are one of the self proclaimed "sandbox is the future" groupies then why are you here discussing themeparks? If you actually play them enough, and look at themeparks theres a reason that the amazing genre that is sandbox will always be a minority, thought more and more I see sandbox inspired, player driven mechanics being brought into themeparks. That to me is just plain awesome, for example the vanarch political system in TERA, completely player controlled.  But even still, that is not at all what we are discussing and is not relevant to ESO either.

    Played-Everything
    Playing-FFXIV:ARR

  • KingGatorKingGator Tampa, FLPosts: 453Member

    The hate for this game is almost laughable. Is it because it isn't going to have fps combat? It isn't going to ruin the bethesda games, it isn't even connected to them beyond lore. Take the game as it comes, it may actually be interesting, the hateful hysterics re almost any new title would be funny if it weren't such a damning indication of what a whiney society we've become.

  • PyrateLVPyrateLV Las Vegas, NVPosts: 1,096Member Common
    Originally posted by Chrisbox
    Originally posted by PyrateLV
    Originally posted by Chrisbox   I've played many, tried many just like yourself, still playing TERA as well. But I dont have to set a signature to make sure people know.

    LOL

    I put those games in a sig because too many times Id post an opinion and get a "Oh yeah? What games have you played" response.

    Now that I have it in a sig I get "Youre an arrogant ass for displaying those games" response.

    Is this a joke? Out of everything I have just written in that last comment you choose to respond to that line ( 2nd time you have responded to 1 line in a response) , which when you copy it alone can sound like I was trying to sound arrogant.  People like you are the key reason real forum discussion is dying and im done even trying to convey rational thought to that small mind of yours.

    I didnt respond to the rest because I wasnt interest in discussing it.

    Just wanted to comment on your opinion of my sig, but thanks for being insulting about it

    Tried: EQ2 - AC - EU - HZ - TR - MxO - TTO - WURM - SL - VG:SoH - PotBS - PS - AoC - WAR - DDO - SWTOR
    Played: UO - EQ1 - AO - DAoC - NC - CoH/CoV - SWG - WoW - EVE - AA - LotRO - DFO - STO - FE - MO - RIFT
    Playing: Skyrim
    Following: The Repopulation
    I want a Virtual World, not just a Game.
    ITS TOO HARD! - Matt Firor (ZeniMax)

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