I just wanted to comment on where BW is right now on money gained for a game that cost $210M(I believe) to develop. BW said prelaunch in a statement that they needed at least 500k longterm subs for the game to break even and 1M to be profitable and 1.5 to 2M subs to be a big success. Lets look at what they have brought in so far(I could be wrong on numbers here so feel free to correct I am going off what I have seen).
developement 210M
boxes sold 1.7Mx59.99 = $120M
4 months of subs for this 6 month period(1 month came free with box and they handed out another month free in april)
lets say an average of 1.5M subs(this is a high number) for this time period so thats 15x4x1.5M=90M
So assuming they made 100% of the money from box sales and monthly subs and have had no operating cost since the 210M developement number came out and they have had 1.5M subs for this whole period, they would be even with not a cent in profit.
I know some people paid 79.99 for the game and not 59.99 but they also don't get 100% of the box sales so my point is this isn't exact math I am just showing that BW has made no money on SWTOR 6 months after launch they are in all likelyhood still deep into the red on this game and 200k subs a month will not pull them out.
After reading through my post I realized I forgot my main point. Which is EA has already said(quoting from the MMORPG videocast) that SWTOR is no longer as important to them as their top titles like Madden football but is more in line with Tiger Woods(lower top 10 i'm guessing). So with how much it would cost to produce game updates and especially how much it would cost to do an expansion they are not going to do that for 200k subs and SWTOR will shut down I do not believe they will keep it running long term for any less than 500k subs.
Your math is all mucked up, you didn't consider licensing fees for Star Wars from Lucas and the game engine from the company that licenses the Hero engine.
That's part of his point. Even if you look at it in the most positive light possible, they have not made any money yet.
Since no one here has access to the accounting records for SWTOR no one here can say if they have or haven't made any money yet. It's all speculation no matter what light you look at it in.
I'm not really trying to defend or bash SWTOR here, it's just so much made up bullshit pops up on this site in regards to sub numbers, financials, etc. that it's mind boggling.
I can't wait for this to be true. It would prove players perfer a more open sandbox type game over a linear themepark, as SWTOR had the same base if not larger then SWG, and yet SWTOR failed way sooner.
No, it wouldn't prove that at all. It would only prove that people don't like SWTOR. WoW proves people like linear themepark games already.
SWTOR can't be too far off their last announced numbers because EA have shareholders and lying to your shareholders is a very bad thing to do and will get you into a lot of trouble. Sure, they probably do have less than 1.3 subs at this point and possibly under 1 mil - but to think they only have 200-300k is just, well some dude talking out his ass.
This...
Quite a few of SWTOR's players are not actively playing it because they are waiting on 1.3, which has the stuff that was supposed to come in 1.2.
Since no one here has access to the accounting records for SWTOR no one here can say if they have or haven't made any money yet. It's all speculation no matter what light you look at it in.
I'm not really trying to defend or bash SWTOR here, it's just so much made up bullshit pops up on this site in regards to sub numbers, financials, etc. that it's mind boggling.
No offense but those numbers were using pretty much what BW has stated themselves and it stacked everything in their favor. Yeah noone knows for sure how much money they have made but sorry we do know for sure they have not made a profit on SWTOR.
I can't wait for this to be true. It would prove players perfer a more open sandbox type game over a linear themepark, as SWTOR had the same base if not larger then SWG, and yet SWTOR failed way sooner.
No, it wouldn't prove that at all. It would only prove that people don't like SWTOR. WoW proves people like linear themepark games already.
SWTOR can't be too far off their last announced numbers because EA have shareholders and lying to your shareholders is a very bad thing to do and will get you into a lot of trouble. Sure, they probably do have less than 1.3 subs at this point and possibly under 1 mil - but to think they only have 200-300k is just, well some dude talking out his ass.
This...
Quite a few of SWTOR's players are not actively playing it because they are waiting on 1.3, which has the stuff that was supposed to come in 1.2.
I wonder if what they are promising in 1.3 is actually going to be in 1.3.
I know I didn't see anything about Ranked Warzones in 1.3. They left that out of 1.2 and told people about it like 1 day before the release of the patch. I wouldn't be surprised if a few things don't make the cut, especially with layoffs.
And is there even a release date for this patch? Is it still months away or are we looking at a closer date?
I can't wait for this to be true. It would prove players perfer a more open sandbox type game over a linear themepark, as SWTOR had the same base if not larger then SWG, and yet SWTOR failed way sooner.
No, it wouldn't prove that at all. It would only prove that people don't like SWTOR. WoW proves people like linear themepark games already.
SWTOR can't be too far off their last announced numbers because EA have shareholders and lying to your shareholders is a very bad thing to do and will get you into a lot of trouble. Sure, they probably do have less than 1.3 subs at this point and possibly under 1 mil - but to think they only have 200-300k is just, well some dude talking out his ass.
This...
Quite a few of SWTOR's players are not actively playing it because they are waiting on 1.3, which has the stuff that was supposed to come in 1.2.
I wonder if what they are promising in 1.3 is actually going to be in 1.3.
I know I didn't see anything about Ranked Warzones in 1.3. They left that out of 1.2 and told people about it like 1 day before the release of the patch. I wouldn't be surprised if a few things don't make the cut, especially with layoffs.
And is there even a release date for this patch? Is it still months away or are we looking at a closer date?
If Ranked Warzones doesn't make it in and everyone IS expecting this, then it will be pure pandemonium. I don't think they're that arrogant, but, it wouldn't surprise me at all.
I would consider taking a day off work just to watch their forums all day. - That's not a joke.
I can't wait for this to be true. It would prove players perfer a more open sandbox type game over a linear themepark, as SWTOR had the same base if not larger then SWG, and yet SWTOR failed way sooner.
No, it wouldn't prove that at all. It would only prove that people don't like SWTOR. WoW proves people like linear themepark games already.
SWTOR can't be too far off their last announced numbers because EA have shareholders and lying to your shareholders is a very bad thing to do and will get you into a lot of trouble. Sure, they probably do have less than 1.3 subs at this point and possibly under 1 mil - but to think they only have 200-300k is just, well some dude talking out his ass.
Of course it does. SWG and SWTOR are both MMOs targeting star wars fans and MMO fans, neither was perfect, niether had perfect starts and both had some questionable design choices but one that had sandbox features lasted 7 years till it was forced closed by LA, while another the other one that was about as themepark as it is possible to be is on a course to tank with in two years. IMO, it pretty clearly one of these game designchoices was a winner and one wasn't.
I will not play a game with a cash shop ever again. A dev job should be to make the game better not make me pay so it sucks less.
I can't wait for this to be true. It would prove players perfer a more open sandbox type game over a linear themepark, as SWTOR had the same base if not larger then SWG, and yet SWTOR failed way sooner.
No, it wouldn't prove that at all. It would only prove that people don't like SWTOR. WoW proves people like linear themepark games already.
SWTOR can't be too far off their last announced numbers because EA have shareholders and lying to your shareholders is a very bad thing to do and will get you into a lot of trouble. Sure, they probably do have less than 1.3 subs at this point and possibly under 1 mil - but to think they only have 200-300k is just, well some dude talking out his ass.
Of course it does. SWG and SWTOR are both MMOs targeting star wars fans and MMO fans, neither was perfect, niether had perfect starts and both had some questionable design choices but one that had sandbox features lasted 7 years till it was forced closed by LA, while another the other one that was about as themepark as it is possible to be is on a course to tank with in two years. IMO, it pretty clearly one of these game designchoices was a winner and one wasn't.
you have to take the times we're playing in too. During SWG you had only a handful of choices, today you're drowning in them. What held on for a while then put in the sea of options today would likely have fallen apart just as fast if not faster. Not saying one is better than another, you can't make a themeparker love sandbox and you can't make a sandboxer love themepark, trying to is just folly. Saying Sandbox clearly is superior because it lasted 7 years, I would counter saying Themepark is clearly superior as WoW has held on far more profitable and for longer...and every game since seems to be themepark.
I would wager at the peak of WoW, Blizzard made more money off their game in one year than SWG made during all 7.
Look at Tor Status and you will see Tor has 10 NA servers left the rest are dead empty servers. Europe has 3 servers left and the rest are dead and empty.
Presently the server status across North America and Euorope is as follows:
1 Medium Server
4 Light Servers
8 Very light Servers
156 Dead Servers
At the current rate of decline the 8 very light servers will all be dead servers within 2 weeks and the light servers will be on the verge of dying. Looking at the 13 light servers left at best ToR has 300k players playing likely less than 200k. But at the current rate of loss Tor will be down to 3 or 4 non dead servers in the next 3-4 weeks and will have less than 100k players.
EA/BW since release has engaged in a campaign of misinformation to make peiople believe the game is doing well and has a lot more subs than it actually has. The facts simply do not bear that out. Approaching server merges their latest attempt at deception is the "Mega Server" scam. They want people to believe there will be mega servers taking the place of all these empty servers. Looking at Tor Status on a daily bas since launch one can quickly see they do not have the population to support such mega servers. Rather EA/Bioware realize that at the current decline the population will only be able to support 3-4 servers at most. But they can save face and keep telling people they are successful with their mega server scam. Plus it gives the fanboys a reason to make post after post telling people how successful Tor is.
With only 13 light servers left it is not arguable that there are mroe than 300k players left. The Titantic is sinking and its almost entirely under water now. There is nothing that can be done for this game at least in the short term. Many games have recovered from bad launches but it takes years. With the SW brand name and a few years of development time it could have a revivial down the road and be a 100-300k sub game. But at least in the short term it is sinking quite fast.
I'm interested in how you define 'Very Light' , seeing as that's NOT a status on any of the servers. Also, how does one quantify 'Dead'?
I won't contest their plan with the Mega-Servers. I actually think the way they're advertising/talking about it displays uncommon (for them) PR sense. I also won't contest the game is sinking. I play on two servers and the population is 1/3 if not 1/4 of what it was just a month ago. But you're making up numbers and doing it BADLY.
And the next time you pull something out of your ass, please do us all the courtesy of wiping before you post it.
On my server there were regularly like 150ish people in the fleet, its more like 50-60 now. I myself have cancelled, i have 25 days left I log in run a wz say hello to friends and log out. I won't be renewing. It isn't that it is a horrible game, its just that it is so mediocre. Class balance is hot trash. pvp consist of 4 warzones, open world is no existant on the pvp servers, I leveled a couple 50s and probably had like 10 total open world pvp encounters. There is only so much of waiting in a hub for a daily hard mode and then the same four warzones over and over that I am willing to pay 15 bucks a month for.
I think devs are missing the boat, it isn't about class innovation, games that are offering us 8 utility dps classes aren't really innovating, they're actually reducing the game to a single class mechanic, the only difference is graphics, its content that is lacking. Make your world jam packed with interesting stuff to do, a robust AI, and some sort of world pvp(I prefer 3 facting rvr myself but whatever you got, just make it compelling) and we'd probably flock to your game.
Instead we get shallow worlds, voice over, and cut screens that everyone space bars through.
I wasn't going to play gw2 due to the 8 utility dps class thing and the cash shop, but since i really like mmos I am going to give it a shot in spite of my misgivings, that's how bad swtor failed.
Look at Tor Status and you will see Tor has 10 NA servers left the rest are dead empty servers. Europe has 3 servers left and the rest are dead and empty.
Presently the server status across North America and Euorope is as follows:
1 Medium Server
4 Light Servers
8 Very light Servers
156 Dead Servers
At the current rate of decline the 8 very light servers will all be dead servers within 2 weeks and the light servers will be on the verge of dying. Looking at the 13 light servers left at best ToR has 300k players playing likely less than 200k. But at the current rate of loss Tor will be down to 3 or 4 non dead servers in the next 3-4 weeks and will have less than 100k players.
EA/BW since release has engaged in a campaign of misinformation to make peiople believe the game is doing well and has a lot more subs than it actually has. The facts simply do not bear that out. Approaching server merges their latest attempt at deception is the "Mega Server" scam. They want people to believe there will be mega servers taking the place of all these empty servers. Looking at Tor Status on a daily bas since launch one can quickly see they do not have the population to support such mega servers. Rather EA/Bioware realize that at the current decline the population will only be able to support 3-4 servers at most. But they can save face and keep telling people they are successful with their mega server scam. Plus it gives the fanboys a reason to make post after post telling people how successful Tor is.
With only 13 light servers left it is not arguable that there are mroe than 300k players left. The Titantic is sinking and its almost entirely under water now. There is nothing that can be done for this game at least in the short term. Many games have recovered from bad launches but it takes years. With the SW brand name and a few years of development time it could have a revivial down the road and be a 100-300k sub game. But at least in the short term it is sinking quite fast.
I'm interested in how you define 'Very Light' , seeing as that's NOT a status on any of the servers. Also, how does one quantify 'Dead'?
I won't contest their plan with the Mega-Servers. I actually think the way they're advertising/talking about it displays uncommon (for them) PR sense. I also won't contest the game is sinking. I play on two servers and the population is 1/3 if not 1/4 of what it was just a month ago. But you're making up numbers and doing it BADLY.
And the next time you pull something out of your ass, please do us all the courtesy of wiping before you post it.
Im not saying he's correct but if you claim population, on your severs at least, is 1/3 to 1/4 of the population, thats ummm....yea. Thats around 250,000 or 300,000 or in that ballpark. Out of a million. Or 1.3 (I never bought that anyways). I understand thats just on your couple of servers though. Making up numbers and doing it badly? Maybe I guess. Hard to say.
And why would wiping make any difference being that the thing is already out of his *** . I dont.....what?
If SWTOR really has only 200-300K players left, then EA will shut it down very quickly. They shut down E&B because it wasn't "profitable enough", so they definitely won't run a loss-making game.
So as long as SWTOR is open for business, it means EA are making "enough" profit, regardless of what third-party sites may say about the population
No. Not at all. They already spent their investment money. As long as current revenue is greater than current expenses they're making something, even if they'll never pay back that investment. So they'll do things like cost cutting, server mergers would be a good thing there. They won't add more fully-voiced quests. They could add a LOTRO like cash-shop in the near future. And, of course, like so many other failed MMOs, put on semi-life--support and do things like, oh, lay-off developers and customer support people... While rolling out minor content patches that recycle as many assets as possible.
Look at Tor Status and you will see Tor has 10 NA servers left the rest are dead empty servers. Europe has 3 servers left and the rest are dead and empty.
Presently the server status across North America and Euorope is as follows:
1 Medium Server
4 Light Servers
8 Very light Servers
156 Dead Servers
At the current rate of decline the 8 very light servers will all be dead servers within 2 weeks and the light servers will be on the verge of dying. Looking at the 13 light servers left at best ToR has 300k players playing likely less than 200k. But at the current rate of loss Tor will be down to 3 or 4 non dead servers in the next 3-4 weeks and will have less than 100k players.
EA/BW since release has engaged in a campaign of misinformation to make peiople believe the game is doing well and has a lot more subs than it actually has. The facts simply do not bear that out. Approaching server merges their latest attempt at deception is the "Mega Server" scam. They want people to believe there will be mega servers taking the place of all these empty servers. Looking at Tor Status on a daily bas since launch one can quickly see they do not have the population to support such mega servers. Rather EA/Bioware realize that at the current decline the population will only be able to support 3-4 servers at most. But they can save face and keep telling people they are successful with their mega server scam. Plus it gives the fanboys a reason to make post after post telling people how successful Tor is.
With only 13 light servers left it is not arguable that there are mroe than 300k players left. The Titantic is sinking and its almost entirely under water now. There is nothing that can be done for this game at least in the short term. Many games have recovered from bad launches but it takes years. With the SW brand name and a few years of development time it could have a revivial down the road and be a 100-300k sub game. But at least in the short term it is sinking quite fast.
I'm interested in how you define 'Very Light' , seeing as that's NOT a status on any of the servers. Also, how does one quantify 'Dead'?
I won't contest their plan with the Mega-Servers. I actually think the way they're advertising/talking about it displays uncommon (for them) PR sense. I also won't contest the game is sinking. I play on two servers and the population is 1/3 if not 1/4 of what it was just a month ago. But you're making up numbers and doing it BADLY.
And the next time you pull something out of your ass, please do us all the courtesy of wiping before you post it.
Im not saying he's correct but if you claim population, on your severs at least, is 1/3 to 1/4 of the population, thats ummm....yea. Thats around 250,000 or 300,000 or in that ballpark. Out of a million. Or 1.3 (I never bought that anyways). I understand thats just on your couple of servers though. Making up numbers and doing it badly? Maybe I guess. Hard to say.
And why would wiping make any difference being that the thing is already out of his *** . I dont.....what?
My point is that he trolls in here and purports to be offering REAL metrics. He is not. Bad data is as bad if not worse than NO data. There's no such server status as 'Very Light', so how did he arrive at the conclusion that there are xx number of servers at that status? He did not define 'dead'. Again, it's MEANINGLESS. Yes, I can corroborate that the population on *MY* server is down. However, I don't play on the other billionty servers there are, so that's not a valid sample size. Also, as someone else mentioned, it doesn't take into account the re-rolls on the higher pop servers.
His post is utter bullshit purporting to me something it's not. This subject has been done to death. His post is as assinine as the fanboys claiming it's a orgasmic pleasure to play.
EA - who should know - have said in their investor reports:
Under 500k - making a loss.
500k - break even, cover operating costs
1M long term (analyst assumptions c.2 years) - cover running costs and recoup development costs. EA statement 'make a profit but nothingt to write home about).
1.2M - the planned number of subscribers (JR in interview after giving out the 1.3M number).
So all is fine the game has <cough> 1.3M 'active accounts' - the 1.3M number was before the 30 days free kicked in.
I'm just wondering when the major review sites will come out of the woodwork and actually write honest articles about how shitty the game really is and how poorly it's performed, instead of perpetually shoveling bullshit.
Probably when the bribe money runs out. That's my best guess.
Yep, very good question. Before launch there was no shortage of reviews and the reviewers only had hrs in beta. Now the game has been out for months and I hear crickets.
No need in saying it. I know it was all paid reviews for promised ad space. Good luck convincing me otherwise.
On topic: I think the OP is closer to the truth than we're getting from the office but it is still just pulling numbers out his ass. No offense but yeah your guessing.
This isn't a constructive topic as much as it's a haters going to hate thread.
I dislike TOR as much as anyone but if your going to post something like this then bring cold hard undisputable facts or your claims are nothing but an obvious and intentional exaggeration, AKA hyperbole.
I wrote this just now in another thread but I'll repeat it here.
Reviewers will never bash on Bioware, or Blizzard or any developer with a big name. Why? Because that developer might hold a grudge and not give any more future interviews, or invite them over to the offices, or give them an inside scoop. Thats bad for a gaming publication of any kind. Which is why you see small or no name developers who make a bad game get totally bombed in reviews. Yet when a big name dev makes a game, bad or good, the reviews are going to always be good. Dont want to insult them! With good reason.
More like they'll do what Sony did: Threaten to pull advertising unless the reviewer is fired. After all, from a corporate point of view, there are plenty more places to advertise than someone who rights you a bad review.
And when Companies like EA spend $847 million a year in MARKETING and only $1,200 million development. You can see that they spend $70 trying to sell you a game for every $100 they put into making it. Which is why their games suck. They're marketing driven corporations. And the rule of thumb in business is that marketing driven corporations tend to make bad products. Not always, but when you do a business case study... You can see it. Cost cutting in all the important areas while marketing keeps going up and everyone wonders why things just aren't quite working out like they 'should' be...
And also why a games magazine won't trash a game (at least too much) from a big developer. They're just too invested in that trough full of cash in front of their noses...
The are already hinting at free to play up to a certain level now for your friends trying to find that interview. It is just a matter of time. subs are dropping like flies, and all they can do is talk of server transfers soon. Meanwhile their player base is leaving in droves.
It is just a matter of time before swtor is totally free to play or canceled.
It's really too bad they didn't spend all this time and money making Dragon Age 2.
His number are a bit skewed in the direction he sees them going. However, what is for certain the layoffs of many of the old republic staff are a clear sign that things are headed south.
If you know anything about game development you know that isn't true either. When you create a game the staff you use to make that game is usually 2-3 times bigger then what you will use to maintain it. Once done you move the extra people to new projects or existing games if you have no new projects you lay them off its how the business of making games is and always has been. That's not to say the game isn't hurting, but basing it off of layoffs isnt accurate.
There is nothing inaccurate about my statement. You read into it something that wasn't there. Congrats I guess. Oh and by the way, what your talking about is not exclusive to MMO's. That's how it is for most big projects. So, while I do in fact know a good deal about MMO development, even if I didn't I would still know.
EA - who should know - have said in their investor reports:
Under 500k - making a loss.
500k - break even, cover operating costs
1M long term (analyst assumptions c.2 years) - cover running costs and recoup development costs. EA statement 'make a profit but nothingt to write home about).
1.2M - the planned number of subscribers (JR in interview after giving out the 1.3M number).
So all is fine the game has 1.3M 'active accounts' - the 1.3M number was before the 30 days free kicked in.
No. It was subs. And that's been explained to you, multiple times in gory detail. That subs are not active players, but legal obligations that follow under strict accounting rules. I've even linked papers that show 57% of people who quit leave active time of their subs. With 23% keeping open their subs for up-to one year.
Yet you ignore it all and keep recycling the same old BioWare talking points. Whatever...
This MMO has a 15% churn rate. That was predicted by the XFIRE play stats. Since the 1.2 patch, the churn rate has increased dramatically. Right now XFIRE is projecting an active poplation of FAIL as the average log-in number is about 1600 a day.
A dramatic decrase from 7000+ it was running late January. The 5000+ it was running in late March. 1600... 32% of March's log-in figures.
People don't like the game. And no matter how much crap you sling up against the wall in this thread, or the XFIRE thread, or all the other threads where you keep denying the reality of contraction, the game is clealy contracting. In fact, it's so bad it's hardly above Aion now... Just look at that curve:
Well nobody knows the exactly numbers from Swtor but people thought already months ago that there will be a decline in player numbers, 200-300k seems a bit low and would be a shock if the numbers were true.
You know what is crazy, the Arma 2 mod DayZ has already
130.000 unique players with ~ 1.600.000 characters and 150-200 servers up at certain times. And the numbers still grow...most servers are full with up to 50-70 players, there were at least 10.000 players online at the same time when i watched the server list.
This is even more crazy...a mod of a game goes totally viral without any advertising or marketing, reminds a bit on certain mods from Half Life in its times but HalfLife was a top seller already.. Arma 2 is topping the sales charts still on steam...unbelieveable.
I'm just wondering when the major review sites will come out of the woodwork and actually write honest articles about how shitty the game really is and how poorly it's performed, instead of perpetually shoveling bullshit.
Probably when the bribe money runs out. That's my best guess.
Yep, very good question. Before launch there was no shortage of reviews and the reviewers only had hrs in beta. Now the game has been out for months and I hear crickets.
No need in saying it. I know it was all paid reviews for promised ad space. Good luck convincing me otherwise.
On topic: I think the OP is closer to the truth than we're getting from the office but it is still just pulling numbers out his ass. No offense but yeah your guessing.
This isn't a constructive topic as much as it's a haters going to hate thread.
I dislike TOR as much as anyone but if your going to post something like this then bring cold hard undisputable facts or your claims are nothing but an obvious and intentional exaggeration, AKA hyperbole.
I wrote this just now in another thread but I'll repeat it here.
Reviewers will never bash on Bioware, or Blizzard or any developer with a big name. Why? Because that developer might hold a grudge and not give any more future interviews, or invite them over to the offices, or give them an inside scoop. Thats bad for a gaming publication of any kind. Which is why you see small or no name developers who make a bad game get totally bombed in reviews. Yet when a big name dev makes a game, bad or good, the reviews are going to always be good. Dont want to insult them! With good reason.
Reviews can be good without being a 9/10. For instance the guy that gave it a 6/10 (see my signature). But he was fired. Of course the staff here says it was for other reasons.
I think reviewers that gave SWTOR a 9/10 should write an article now explaining why they were so shortsighted.
Where is the reviewers and game sites loyalty? To the players or to the companies?
Well I think some people really do actually enjoy the game. Umm.....I think. I guess. I mean thats what Ive read...before. Ahem.
Plus its Star Wars. Its this big fandom, and always has been. Would a lot playing now dump it if it wasnt Star Wars? Sure. Ive seen some players say as much. But they get a thrill from the Star Wars worlds, the lightsabers, the blasters, the droids, etc etc. It doesnt have to be done necessarily well. It just had to be done half decently. And I guess it was for the most part. I said half decently. Not.....decently. Not in my opinion.
Now I saw that in my frist beta weekend what the game was, and never did make a purchase. I like Star Wars very much (well half of the movies anyways), but the game just wasnt going to do it for me. I cant say Im better or more logical, or more level headed than those that did buy into it.
Why? Sigh...I bought Star Trek Online. *groan* No I really did. I....bought....it. I even sort of told everyone on the forums the game was going to have problems and that it wasnt likely going to last longer than two months for most people if that, and pointed out all sorts of problems and I....sigh....bought it anyways. Even NOT being a fanboy about it. Lesson learned I guess.
But just remember before you rail on Swtor players too much, EVERY SINGLE ONE of us have bought an ill advise game we probably regreted. I dont care what you claim, you know its true. For 99% of people. So lets not forget that.
But again, I think some people might actually like it. And if so, and they are enjoying it then they made a wise purchase because they themselves are having fun. But as for me and you? No it wasnt for us. I didnt think it was awful, just extremely mediocre, and even less of a game by far than WoW which is getting to be an old man these days yet still going strong.
Comments
Since no one here has access to the accounting records for SWTOR no one here can say if they have or haven't made any money yet. It's all speculation no matter what light you look at it in.
I'm not really trying to defend or bash SWTOR here, it's just so much made up bullshit pops up on this site in regards to sub numbers, financials, etc. that it's mind boggling.
This...
Quite a few of SWTOR's players are not actively playing it because they are waiting on 1.3, which has the stuff that was supposed to come in 1.2.
No offense but those numbers were using pretty much what BW has stated themselves and it stacked everything in their favor. Yeah noone knows for sure how much money they have made but sorry we do know for sure they have not made a profit on SWTOR.
I wonder if what they are promising in 1.3 is actually going to be in 1.3.
I know I didn't see anything about Ranked Warzones in 1.3. They left that out of 1.2 and told people about it like 1 day before the release of the patch. I wouldn't be surprised if a few things don't make the cut, especially with layoffs.
And is there even a release date for this patch? Is it still months away or are we looking at a closer date?
If Ranked Warzones doesn't make it in and everyone IS expecting this, then it will be pure pandemonium. I don't think they're that arrogant, but, it wouldn't surprise me at all.
I would consider taking a day off work just to watch their forums all day. - That's not a joke.
I
Of course it does. SWG and SWTOR are both MMOs targeting star wars fans and MMO fans, neither was perfect, niether had perfect starts and both had some questionable design choices but one that had sandbox features lasted 7 years till it was forced closed by LA, while another the other one that was about as themepark as it is possible to be is on a course to tank with in two years. IMO, it pretty clearly one of these game designchoices was a winner and one wasn't.
I will not play a game with a cash shop ever again. A dev job should be to make the game better not make me pay so it sucks less.
you have to take the times we're playing in too. During SWG you had only a handful of choices, today you're drowning in them. What held on for a while then put in the sea of options today would likely have fallen apart just as fast if not faster. Not saying one is better than another, you can't make a themeparker love sandbox and you can't make a sandboxer love themepark, trying to is just folly. Saying Sandbox clearly is superior because it lasted 7 years, I would counter saying Themepark is clearly superior as WoW has held on far more profitable and for longer...and every game since seems to be themepark.
I would wager at the peak of WoW, Blizzard made more money off their game in one year than SWG made during all 7.
I'm interested in how you define 'Very Light' , seeing as that's NOT a status on any of the servers. Also, how does one quantify 'Dead'?
I won't contest their plan with the Mega-Servers. I actually think the way they're advertising/talking about it displays uncommon (for them) PR sense. I also won't contest the game is sinking. I play on two servers and the population is 1/3 if not 1/4 of what it was just a month ago. But you're making up numbers and doing it BADLY.
And the next time you pull something out of your ass, please do us all the courtesy of wiping before you post it.
On my server there were regularly like 150ish people in the fleet, its more like 50-60 now. I myself have cancelled, i have 25 days left I log in run a wz say hello to friends and log out. I won't be renewing. It isn't that it is a horrible game, its just that it is so mediocre. Class balance is hot trash. pvp consist of 4 warzones, open world is no existant on the pvp servers, I leveled a couple 50s and probably had like 10 total open world pvp encounters. There is only so much of waiting in a hub for a daily hard mode and then the same four warzones over and over that I am willing to pay 15 bucks a month for.
I think devs are missing the boat, it isn't about class innovation, games that are offering us 8 utility dps classes aren't really innovating, they're actually reducing the game to a single class mechanic, the only difference is graphics, its content that is lacking. Make your world jam packed with interesting stuff to do, a robust AI, and some sort of world pvp(I prefer 3 facting rvr myself but whatever you got, just make it compelling) and we'd probably flock to your game.
Instead we get shallow worlds, voice over, and cut screens that everyone space bars through.
I wasn't going to play gw2 due to the 8 utility dps class thing and the cash shop, but since i really like mmos I am going to give it a shot in spite of my misgivings, that's how bad swtor failed.
Im not saying he's correct but if you claim population, on your severs at least, is 1/3 to 1/4 of the population, thats ummm....yea. Thats around 250,000 or 300,000 or in that ballpark. Out of a million. Or 1.3 (I never bought that anyways). I understand thats just on your couple of servers though. Making up numbers and doing it badly? Maybe I guess. Hard to say.
And why would wiping make any difference being that the thing is already out of his *** . I dont.....what?
No. Not at all. They already spent their investment money. As long as current revenue is greater than current expenses they're making something, even if they'll never pay back that investment. So they'll do things like cost cutting, server mergers would be a good thing there. They won't add more fully-voiced quests. They could add a LOTRO like cash-shop in the near future. And, of course, like so many other failed MMOs, put on semi-life--support and do things like, oh, lay-off developers and customer support people... While rolling out minor content patches that recycle as many assets as possible.
My point is that he trolls in here and purports to be offering REAL metrics. He is not. Bad data is as bad if not worse than NO data. There's no such server status as 'Very Light', so how did he arrive at the conclusion that there are xx number of servers at that status? He did not define 'dead'. Again, it's MEANINGLESS. Yes, I can corroborate that the population on *MY* server is down. However, I don't play on the other billionty servers there are, so that's not a valid sample size. Also, as someone else mentioned, it doesn't take into account the re-rolls on the higher pop servers.
His post is utter bullshit purporting to me something it's not. This subject has been done to death. His post is as assinine as the fanboys claiming it's a orgasmic pleasure to play.
EA - who should know - have said in their investor reports:
Under 500k - making a loss.
500k - break even, cover operating costs
1M long term (analyst assumptions c.2 years) - cover running costs and recoup development costs. EA statement 'make a profit but nothingt to write home about).
1.2M - the planned number of subscribers (JR in interview after giving out the 1.3M number).
So all is fine the game has <cough> 1.3M 'active accounts' - the 1.3M number was before the 30 days free kicked in.
More like they'll do what Sony did: Threaten to pull advertising unless the reviewer is fired. After all, from a corporate point of view, there are plenty more places to advertise than someone who rights you a bad review.
And when Companies like EA spend $847 million a year in MARKETING and only $1,200 million development. You can see that they spend $70 trying to sell you a game for every $100 they put into making it. Which is why their games suck. They're marketing driven corporations. And the rule of thumb in business is that marketing driven corporations tend to make bad products. Not always, but when you do a business case study... You can see it. Cost cutting in all the important areas while marketing keeps going up and everyone wonders why things just aren't quite working out like they 'should' be...
And also why a games magazine won't trash a game (at least too much) from a big developer. They're just too invested in that trough full of cash in front of their noses...
It's really too bad they didn't spend all this time and money making Dragon Age 2.
There is nothing inaccurate about my statement. You read into it something that wasn't there. Congrats I guess. Oh and by the way, what your talking about is not exclusive to MMO's. That's how it is for most big projects. So, while I do in fact know a good deal about MMO development, even if I didn't I would still know.
No. It was subs. And that's been explained to you, multiple times in gory detail. That subs are not active players, but legal obligations that follow under strict accounting rules. I've even linked papers that show 57% of people who quit leave active time of their subs. With 23% keeping open their subs for up-to one year.
Yet you ignore it all and keep recycling the same old BioWare talking points. Whatever...
This MMO has a 15% churn rate. That was predicted by the XFIRE play stats. Since the 1.2 patch, the churn rate has increased dramatically. Right now XFIRE is projecting an active poplation of FAIL as the average log-in number is about 1600 a day.
A dramatic decrase from 7000+ it was running late January. The 5000+ it was running in late March. 1600... 32% of March's log-in figures.
People don't like the game. And no matter how much crap you sling up against the wall in this thread, or the XFIRE thread, or all the other threads where you keep denying the reality of contraction, the game is clealy contracting. In fact, it's so bad it's hardly above Aion now... Just look at that curve:
http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/367/view/forums/thread/349680/page/20
BOOM! Race to the bottom.
Well nobody knows the exactly numbers from Swtor but people thought already months ago that there will be a decline in player numbers, 200-300k seems a bit low and would be a shock if the numbers were true.
You know what is crazy, the Arma 2 mod DayZ has already
130.000 unique players with ~ 1.600.000 characters and 150-200 servers up at certain times. And the numbers still grow...most servers are full with up to 50-70 players, there were at least 10.000 players online at the same time when i watched the server list.
This is even more crazy...a mod of a game goes totally viral without any advertising or marketing, reminds a bit on certain mods from Half Life in its times but HalfLife was a top seller already.. Arma 2 is topping the sales charts still on steam...unbelieveable.
Reviews can be good without being a 9/10. For instance the guy that gave it a 6/10 (see my signature). But he was fired. Of course the staff here says it was for other reasons.
I think reviewers that gave SWTOR a 9/10 should write an article now explaining why they were so shortsighted.
Where is the reviewers and game sites loyalty? To the players or to the companies?
An honest review of SW:TOR 6/10 (Danny Wojcicki)
I called it at 400k a while ago, since that is what the actual number of active players looks like on the live servers.
Putting it at 300k now seems about right. 200k in a few weeks.
Considering the gravity a name like Star Wars holds this game is the biggest failure since Vanguard.
Its not even in the same ball park as Vanguard,Vanguard is a great game that opened with bugs not the same pile of crap SWTOR is.
Vanguard is ticking along nicely and getting updates in the very near future,plus swtor can't even come close to the kind of MMO that Vanguard is.
I would compare swtor to the likes of http://www.darkandlight.com/en/
Well I think some people really do actually enjoy the game. Umm.....I think. I guess. I mean thats what Ive read...before. Ahem.
Plus its Star Wars. Its this big fandom, and always has been. Would a lot playing now dump it if it wasnt Star Wars? Sure. Ive seen some players say as much. But they get a thrill from the Star Wars worlds, the lightsabers, the blasters, the droids, etc etc. It doesnt have to be done necessarily well. It just had to be done half decently. And I guess it was for the most part. I said half decently. Not.....decently. Not in my opinion.
Now I saw that in my frist beta weekend what the game was, and never did make a purchase. I like Star Wars very much (well half of the movies anyways), but the game just wasnt going to do it for me. I cant say Im better or more logical, or more level headed than those that did buy into it.
Why? Sigh...I bought Star Trek Online. *groan* No I really did. I....bought....it. I even sort of told everyone on the forums the game was going to have problems and that it wasnt likely going to last longer than two months for most people if that, and pointed out all sorts of problems and I....sigh....bought it anyways. Even NOT being a fanboy about it. Lesson learned I guess.
But just remember before you rail on Swtor players too much, EVERY SINGLE ONE of us have bought an ill advise game we probably regreted. I dont care what you claim, you know its true. For 99% of people. So lets not forget that.
But again, I think some people might actually like it. And if so, and they are enjoying it then they made a wise purchase because they themselves are having fun. But as for me and you? No it wasnt for us. I didnt think it was awful, just extremely mediocre, and even less of a game by far than WoW which is getting to be an old man these days yet still going strong.