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Mortal reports more losses for Q1

psykobillypsykobilly NYC, NYPosts: 338Member

 

http://www.aktietorget.se/NewsItem.aspx?ID=62207

A loss of 621,000 SEK (86k US$) reported.  

[mod edit]

The quick math:  86k dividied by 3 months is roughly 28.6k$ loss per month.

28,600 a month loss requires roughly 1,906 additional subs to reach break even.

Welcome to reality people.

 

 

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Comments

  • MMOarQQMMOarQQ BoogalululuPosts: 636Member

    You have to admire the loyalty and tenacity of this kid's dad, or his incredibly well endowed bank account.

  • UmirshandUmirshand lake jackson, TXPosts: 46Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by psykobilly

     

    http://www.aktietorget.se/NewsItem.aspx?ID=62207

    A loss of 621,000 SEK (86k US$) reported.  

    [mod edit]

    The quick math:  86k dividied by 3 months is roughly 28.6k$ loss per month.

    28,600 a month loss requires roughly 1,906 additional subs to reach break even.

    Welcome to reality people.

    No suprise here. Aside from a few features added, imo, little has changed. Still murder with little else to do. Yay, make more steel...to murder more...bah

     

     

    "Look at me when I'm hitting you!"

  • deathshrouddeathshroud londonPosts: 1,366Member

    26k a month loss that is a hell of alot.

     

    Maybe if awakening had released in q1 like it should of it mgiht of reduced that but no way it would put them in the + even with awakening. but it isnt clear i mean they have -700,000 profit but is that more or less than last q.

     

    yet the report does state they recieved more monthly payments 1st quarter than last years 4th quarter, so there most likely was more subs, so the fanbois arent exactly lying.

     

    cash and cash equivalents at the beginning 135754    728547

    cash and cash equivalents at the end   117808 739292

    there are 2 types of mmo, imitators and innovaters.

  • ToferioToferio RandomPosts: 1,403Member Uncommon

    Well, no surprise there. Will take them some time to achieve breakeven with this pace.

  • username509username509 beverly hills, CAPosts: 635Member

    Anyone else notice this "The number of monthly payments during the first quarter of 2012 increased slightly compared with the fourth quarter of 2011. * The sale of licenses in the first quarter 2012 has increased by 68 percent compared with fourth quarter 2011."

    So its confirmed again that Mortal Onlines population is increasing.

    They stated that they plan to reach a break even point in terms of finances around July or August.

    Never trust a screenshot or a youtube video without a version stamp!

  • username509username509 beverly hills, CAPosts: 635Member
    Originally posted by psykobilly

     

    http://www.aktietorget.se/NewsItem.aspx?ID=62207

    A loss of 621,000 SEK (86k US$) reported.  

    [mod edit]

    The quick math:  86k dividied by 3 months is roughly 28.6k$ loss per month.

    28,600 a month loss requires roughly 1,906 additional subs to reach break even.

    Welcome to reality people.

     

     

    Because it's extremely difficult for an MMO to attract 2,000 new players.  LOL..

    Seriously though, All Star Vault would have to do to get 2,000 new players would be to start a advertising campaign on MMORPG.com like World of Tanks does...

    If SV advertised, or maybe allowed Mortal to be sold on Steam we would see tens of thousands of new subs.  1,906 subs is nothing.  

    Never trust a screenshot or a youtube video without a version stamp!

  • ozmonoozmono Not tellingPosts: 1,211Member
    Originally posted by username509
    Originally posted by psykobilly

     

    http://www.aktietorget.se/NewsItem.aspx?ID=62207

    A loss of 621,000 SEK (86k US$) reported.  

    [mod edit]

    The quick math:  86k dividied by 3 months is roughly 28.6k$ loss per month.

    28,600 a month loss requires roughly 1,906 additional subs to reach break even.

    Welcome to reality people.

     

     

    Because it's extremely difficult for an MMO to attract 2,000 new players.  LOL..

    Seriously though, All Star Vault would have to do to get 2,000 new players would be to start a advertising campaign on MMORPG.com like World of Tanks does...

    If SV advertised, or maybe allowed Mortal to be sold on Steam we would see tens of thousands of new subs.  1,906 subs is nothing.  

    Getting them to stick around would be a different story though. Personally I feel MO, darkfall and the likes opened my eyes to how shallow those type of games are and how bad their communities tend to be. From my own experiences with the game I wouldn't be willing to bet money on it turning those numbers with advertising. Atleast not in the long run.

  • ToferioToferio RandomPosts: 1,403Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by username509

    Anyone else notice this "The number of monthly payments during the first quarter of 2012 increased slightly compared with the fourth quarter of 2011. * The sale of licenses in the first quarter 2012 has increased by 68 percent compared with fourth quarter 2011."

    So its confirmed again that Mortal Onlines population is increasing.

    See, the only time it will be confirmed is when it says in plain text "number of active unique players have increased".  Henrik is good at playing with numbers and words, as he did now. The increased sale of licenses could be due to people getting second accounts because of the low population so they can sustain themselves, and increased subs is a direct outcome of that.

    I too can play around with words :P

     

    Originally posted by username509

    They stated that they plan to reach a break even point in terms of finances around July or August.

     

    They have been stating that every half a year since release. I'll believe that when I see that.

  • GrayGhost79GrayGhost79 Webster, MAPosts: 4,813Member
    Originally posted by username509

    Anyone else notice this "The number of monthly payments during the first quarter of 2012 increased slightly compared with the fourth quarter of 2011. * The sale of licenses in the first quarter 2012 has increased by 68 percent compared with fourth quarter 2011."

    So its confirmed again that Mortal Onlines population is increasing.

    They stated that they plan to reach a break even point in terms of finances around July or August.

    Yep.... Population is definitely on the rise. I mean it's a matter of fact the more customers you have the less money you make.

  • CroniteLoreCroniteLore EnglandiumPosts: 99Member

    Henrik said on an IRC chat yesterday that they are going to do marketing with The Awakening - he didn't go into what type.

    "In MO, even the haters are hardcore!" - ltank

  • CaldrinCaldrin CwmbranPosts: 4,533Member Uncommon

    Anyway why in hell do you care..

     

    I was playing MO a few months ago and it was an awesome game and when i was playing the population was getting bigger each day..

    Sadly i dont have the time to put into it at the moment but when i was playing i had 2 account subbed and could not get enough.

     

    Sure not everyone will like Open world FFA pvp with full loot but for me its the only way MMORPGs should be..

     

     

  • Pratt2112Pratt2112 Posts: 1,536Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by ozmono
    Originally posted by username509
    Originally posted by psykobilly

     

    http://www.aktietorget.se/NewsItem.aspx?ID=62207

    A loss of 621,000 SEK (86k US$) reported.  

    [mod edit]

    The quick math:  86k dividied by 3 months is roughly 28.6k$ loss per month.

    28,600 a month loss requires roughly 1,906 additional subs to reach break even.

    Welcome to reality people.

     

     

    Because it's extremely difficult for an MMO to attract 2,000 new players.  LOL..

    Seriously though, All Star Vault would have to do to get 2,000 new players would be to start a advertising campaign on MMORPG.com like World of Tanks does...

    If SV advertised, or maybe allowed Mortal to be sold on Steam we would see tens of thousands of new subs.  1,906 subs is nothing.  

    Getting them to stick around would be a different story though. Personally I feel MO, darkfall and the likes opened my eyes to how shallow those type of games are and how bad their communities tend to be. From my own experiences with the game I wouldn't be willing to bet money on it turning those numbers with advertising. Atleast not in the long run.

    The difference is in execution, not in concept.

    What each MMO - DF and MO - set out to do would have actually created a very rich and engaging gaming experience.

    The problem is, very generally speaking, both developers failed to provide enough "tools" for the players to work with.

    As far as the community goes, that's a failing of the developers to understand and prepare to deal with the people they would attract.

    Both companies seemed to have the naive notion that players would just pour in and play the game exactly the way they intended. Players hardly ever do that. The way developers intend others to play their game, and the way others actually play it seldom overlap.

     

  • psykobillypsykobilly NYC, NYPosts: 338Member
    Originally posted by Toferio
    Originally posted by username509

    Anyone else notice this "The number of monthly payments during the first quarter of 2012 increased slightly compared with the fourth quarter of 2011. * The sale of licenses in the first quarter 2012 has increased by 68 percent compared with fourth quarter 2011."

    So its confirmed again that Mortal Onlines population is increasing.

    See, the only time it will be confirmed is when it says in plain text "number of active unique players have increased".  Henrik is good at playing with numbers and words, as he did now. The increased sale of licenses could be due to people getting second accounts because of the low population so they can sustain themselves, and increased subs is a direct outcome of that.

    Originally posted by username509

    They stated that they plan to reach a break even point in terms of finances around July or August.

    They have been stating that every half a year since release. I'll believe that when I see that.

    Anytime you see percentages instead of hard numbers, someone is sheltering an inconvenient truth.

    It is NOT confirmed that Mortal Onlines population is increasing:  If the number of monthly payments is relatively stable, but more license sales happened, that means new accounts came in, but enough new or old players left the game to keep subscription numbers roughly the same.  

    You are of course right that they have been saying break even is just around the corner every few months since release.  Was supposed to happen last year, was supposed to happen the year before.

    I would actually gain some respect for Henrik if he came out and reported real monthly subscription numbers, instead of misleading investors with percentages and 'slight increases'.

     

  • ltankltank Fort Myers, FLPosts: 288Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by username509
    Originally posted by psykobilly

     

    http://www.aktietorget.se/NewsItem.aspx?ID=62207

    A loss of 621,000 SEK (86k US$) reported.  

    [mod edit]

    The quick math:  86k dividied by 3 months is roughly 28.6k$ loss per month.

    28,600 a month loss requires roughly 1,906 additional subs to reach break even.

    Welcome to reality people.

     

     

    Because it's extremely difficult for an MMO to attract 2,000 new players.  LOL..

    Seriously though, All Star Vault would have to do to get 2,000 new players would be to start a advertising campaign on MMORPG.com like World of Tanks does...

    If SV advertised, or maybe allowed Mortal to be sold on Steam we would see tens of thousands of new subs.  1,906 subs is nothing.  

    I agree, if awakening turns out to be all it's cracked up to be then putting out a nice video to some gaming news sites like this one showing off the cool new things like AI with a dragon and trolls eating peoples faces and a smooth UI revamp coupled with a welcome back weekend to all former subscribers and trial users and I think they could put a big dent in the road to profitability if those people decide to stick around. I personally think the revamped PvE alone with bring in a lot of players.

    Assuming Awakening is good like I said.

  • deathshrouddeathshroud londonPosts: 1,366Member

    all MO has to do really to get a shit load of new subs is.. add a toggle option for nudity which in turn will alow MO to be added to Steam. Then market the game correctly as an mmo version of TES and subs would roll in. Of course it would be technically lying since MO isnt really likr TES but almost every game ive ever played was a disapointment after listening to the developers and watching the trailers. Most likely they would drain subs faster and faster each month but for those first 2 months the game would make ahell of alot.

     

    but has mo lost more money than last quarter? since it isnt clear to me are they in more - or slightly less?

    there are 2 types of mmo, imitators and innovaters.

  • username509username509 beverly hills, CAPosts: 635Member
    Originally posted by psykobilly
    Originally posted by Toferio
    Originally posted by username509

    Anyone else notice this "The number of monthly payments during the first quarter of 2012 increased slightly compared with the fourth quarter of 2011. * The sale of licenses in the first quarter 2012 has increased by 68 percent compared with fourth quarter 2011."

    So its confirmed again that Mortal Onlines population is increasing.

    See, the only time it will be confirmed is when it says in plain text "number of active unique players have increased".  Henrik is good at playing with numbers and words, as he did now. The increased sale of licenses could be due to people getting second accounts because of the low population so they can sustain themselves, and increased subs is a direct outcome of that.

    Originally posted by username509

    They stated that they plan to reach a break even point in terms of finances around July or August.

    They have been stating that every half a year since release. I'll believe that when I see that.

    Anytime you see percentages instead of hard numbers, someone is sheltering an inconvenient truth.

    It is NOT confirmed that Mortal Onlines population is increasing:  If the number of monthly payments is relatively stable, but more license sales happened, that means new accounts came in, but enough new or old players left the game to keep subscription numbers roughly the same.  

    You are of course right that they have been saying break even is just around the corner every few months since release.  Was supposed to happen last year, was supposed to happen the year before.

    I would actually gain some respect for Henrik if he came out and reported real monthly subscription numbers, instead of misleading investors with percentages and 'slight increases'.

     

    I seriously question your reading comprehension skills.  Never in the document did it say Mortal Onlines population is "relatively stable" it said there was a slight increase in subscriptions which means there's more people paying a monthly sub, which means more players.  

    Keep in mind that when you buy a "license" you don't need to pay a monthly subscription for the first month.  The 68% increaes in license sales largely represents users who played the free trial and decided to buy the game.  Most of these users will buy another montly subscription.  Many of these new monthly subs will not show up until the next financial quater report.  

    It seems StarVault has already outlived larger game companies with 100 million dollar plus investments like 38 Studios.  They must me doing something right.  Just like in Eve Online Mortals online improves over time, and it's subscriptions grow.

    Never trust a screenshot or a youtube video without a version stamp!

  • psykobillypsykobilly NYC, NYPosts: 338Member
    Originally posted by username509

    I seriously question your reading comprehension skills.  Never in the document did it say Mortal Onlines population is "relatively stable" it said there was a slight increase in subscriptions which means there's more people paying a monthly sub, which means more players.  

    Keep in mind that when you buy a "license" you don't need to pay a monthly subscription for the first month.  The 68% increaes in license sales largely represents users who played the free trial and decided to buy the game.  Most of these users will buy another montly subscription.  Many of these new monthly subs will not show up until the next financial quater report.  

    It seems StarVault has already outlived larger game companies with 100 million dollar plus investments like 38 Studios.  They must me doing something right.  Just like in Eve Online Mortals online improves over time, and it's subscriptions grow.

    I seriously question your reading comprehension skills.  A 'slight increase' could mean +1 sub, or anything above that.  In other words - it doesn't say a damn thing meaningful.  People subbing does not even always translate to active players in game.

    You have absolutely no factual data to make statements like 'most of these (trial) users (who bought the game) will buy another monthly subscription'.  Everything I have seen is quite the opposite:  Very few people can stand the absolutely horrible new user experience, and quit the first month even if they bought the game.

    What they are doing right is getting unseen funding from somewhere to cover the 28k per month loss they are taking.

    But you can necro this thread in August when "Henrik is going to reach break even" and tell me that you told me so.

     

     

  • ToferioToferio RandomPosts: 1,403Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by username509
     

    It seems StarVault has already outlived larger game companies with 100 million dollar plus investments like 38 Studios.  They must me doing something right.  

    You really have no idea how business work, do you.. Comparing indie company with no publisher to a multimillion investment (and its 75m, not 100m), publisher, obligations and loans.

  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Boca Raton, FLPosts: 4,498Member Uncommon

    You should read the actual report as well (not just the summary).  The last section is particularly interesting.

     

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Starvault's reponse to criticism related to having a handful of players as the official "test" team for a supposed MMO: "We've just have another 10ish folk kind enough to voulenteer added tot the test team" (SIC) This explains much about the state of the game :-)

  • SHOE788SHOE788 Ankeny, IAPosts: 700Member
    Originally posted by username509
    Originally posted by psykobilly

     

    http://www.aktietorget.se/NewsItem.aspx?ID=62207

    A loss of 621,000 SEK (86k US$) reported.  

    [mod edit]

    The quick math:  86k dividied by 3 months is roughly 28.6k$ loss per month.

    28,600 a month loss requires roughly 1,906 additional subs to reach break even.

    Welcome to reality people.

     

     

    Because it's extremely difficult for an MMO to attract 2,000 new players.  LOL..

    Seriously though, All Star Vault would have to do to get 2,000 new players would be to start a advertising campaign on MMORPG.com like World of Tanks does...

    If SV advertised, or maybe allowed Mortal to be sold on Steam we would see tens of thousands of new subs.  1,906 subs is nothing.  

    Getting it on Steam in its current form would be bad.

    Have you seen angry steam users? Hell hath no scorn...

    Last thing MO needs is an even more popular Mortal Online forum lightly moderated on SPUF.

  • SHOE788SHOE788 Ankeny, IAPosts: 700Member
    Originally posted by GrayGhost79
    Originally posted by username509

    Anyone else notice this "The number of monthly payments during the first quarter of 2012 increased slightly compared with the fourth quarter of 2011. * The sale of licenses in the first quarter 2012 has increased by 68 percent compared with fourth quarter 2011."

    So its confirmed again that Mortal Onlines population is increasing.

    They stated that they plan to reach a break even point in terms of finances around July or August.

    Yep.... Population is definitely on the rise. I mean it's a matter of fact the more customers you have the less money you make.

    I think someone has played the "population is increasing!" card about every other day.

    It should be about World of Warcraft levels by now.

  • OmaliOmali MMO Business Correspondent Orchard Park, NYPosts: 1,114Member Uncommon

    They're still at a loss, but quarter-over-quarter it is an improvement.

    Check out my monthly column on MMORPG.com.

    image

  • deathshrouddeathshroud londonPosts: 1,366Member

    nice, at least it is going up now. With awakening almost guaranteed to release this quarter i suspect they may very well break even for the next report.

    there are 2 types of mmo, imitators and innovaters.

  • TalonsinTalonsin Posts: 1,468Member Uncommon

    I really would like to see some real numbers instead of the PR spin that Henrik puts on these things.  If I recall correctly, there were big cuts in January and SV has less full-time employees than I have fingers on my left hand.  (Anyone remember Henrik talking about using more consultants and less actual staff?).  How can Henrik keep making cuts and still be losing money?  Honestly, the population is so low that one new subscriber could amount to "a slight increase in subs".  If box sales in the 4th quarter were 5 and this quarter they actually sold 8 copies of the game, that would account for the 68% increase.  Since no one here (including username) actually knows the numbers, the statements made by Henrik give us very little actual information. 

     

    I do think we will see a good size increase in subs when awakenings comes out.  I also believe it will be short-lived just like it was for the last expansion. 

  • username509username509 beverly hills, CAPosts: 635Member
    Originally posted by Talonsin

    I really would like to see some real numbers instead of the PR spin that Henrik puts on these things.  If I recall correctly, there were big cuts in January and SV has less full-time employees than I have fingers on my left hand.  (Anyone remember Henrik talking about using more consultants and less actual staff?).  How can Henrik keep making cuts and still be losing money?  Honestly, the population is so low that one new subscriber could amount to "a slight increase in subs".  If box sales in the 4th quarter were 5 and this quarter they actually sold 8 copies of the game, that would account for the 68% increase.  Since no one here (including username) actually knows the numbers, the statements made by Henrik give us very little actual information. 

     

    I do think we will see a good size increase in subs when awakenings comes out.  I also believe it will be short-lived just like it was for the last expansion. 

    Short lived?  There are players who have been playing since launch, as well as many newer players who came in afterwards.

    Just like the other major expansions this one will create a permanent bump in population.  Yes, many people will play after the expansion and leave, but many more will stay.  

    Look at the chart above your post.  You don't make 600k net sales by selling 8 copies or increasing your subscriber base by one.  

    Never trust a screenshot or a youtube video without a version stamp!

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