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When giants walked the MMORPG landscape

KyleranKyleran Tampa, FLPosts: 20,008Member Uncommon

I got to thinking the other day, where did all the giants (in game moderators) go in MMORPG's.

My first MMO was Lineage 1, and while not frequent, in game moderators would actually show up in person to meet out some form of justice if someone was intentionally griefing someone.  (most common was blocking access to something, since it had collision detection)

These avatars were oversized, all powerful and they could and would actually smite other players unto death if necessary.  This all came to a head when Richard Garrot joined NCSoft and actually took control of a special GM avatar that proceeded to battle to the death all of the titles legendary npc bosses in a fight extraordinaire in the colisueum (which we all had filed into to watch) one memorable night.

My next title was DAOC, and while I never saw a GM enter the gameworld to mete out justice, I did have a quest glitch on me once and when I opened an in game report a moderator actually appeared in front of me in the form of a blue glowing crystal.

I explained how my quest line had broken and she actually reset the quest and then she and I blinked from place to place in the quest chain to make sure I got credit for each leg of the quest.  She didn't actually kill anything, but she was with me in game for each step until I got it  completed.

I know in EVE some of the Developers play the actual game using standard avatars, but actually having GM's "walk the earth" doesn't seem to happen very much these days.

Anyone know of more modern titles where the "Titans" still wander the land?

 

In my day MMORPG's were so hard we fought our way through dungeons in the snow, uphill both ways.
"I don't have one life, I have many lives" - Grunty
Still currently "subscribed" to EVE, and only EVE!!!
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon

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Comments

  • TheLizardbonesTheLizardbones Arkham, VAPosts: 10,910Member

    I had GMs contact me in WoW, but I don't think I ever saw an avatar. I did have that experience playing on an RPG Minecraft server though. I'm not sure why games moved away from this, other than it possibly just takes too much time in a support role to virtually move about the world.

    I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.

  • WhiteLanternWhiteLantern Nevada, MOPosts: 2,732Member Common

    I watched a GM dance on the Stormwind fountain and I've seen them show up in chat channels in STO, but you're right, it is far too infrequent in games these days.

    I want a mmorpg where people have gone through misery, have gone through school stuff and actually have had sex even. -sagil

  • dave6660dave6660 New York, NYPosts: 2,543Member Uncommon

    In Vanguard I saw a GM using an avatar.  It was a really odd looking dude (not a giant).  He told me my character's name was offensive.  I challenged him to a fight.  He didn't like that.

    “There are certain queer times and occasions in this strange mixed affair we call life when a man takes this whole universe for a vast practical joke, though the wit thereof he but dimly discerns, and more than suspects that the joke is at nobody's expense but his own.”
    -- Herman Melville

  • TheDeadlyMouseTheDeadlyMouse Beckley, WVPosts: 103Member Uncommon

    Yeah I remember the days of EQ when they'd show up at weddings or at the end of them to change the females last name. How in EQ when you'd hit level 20 and get your last name they'd make a big deal out of it and pretty much everyone know about it.

    How GM's would appear to you if you needed their help. Now a days it's pretty much they answer either by chat only or in-game mail.

    I recall in DAoC beta a dev showed up and asked me what I'd think about them adding a compass to the game. Also how games would have these BIG events to where GM's would take control over a god, or a very important character and you'd have to either defeat them or protect them.

    GM's/dev's should start doing this again and more often in all mmo's. Makes them more fun!

  • QuirhidQuirhid TamperePosts: 5,969Member Common

    Only contact with GMs I've had is when they've unstuck me or told me to stop exploiting a feature/bug. Mostly the exploit tho, getting stuck is pretty arcaic and rare these days.

    "What you are doing is an exploit we are going to adress in the next patch and if you do it again you will get banned." - from WAR when we sucked people through the castle gate with the Electromagnet-skill. ...Or when we humped the castle wall slowly climbing over it. Or... image

    I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky

  • LoktofeitLoktofeit Stone Mountain, GAPosts: 13,680Member Uncommon

    In most MMOs, the support GMs rarely go visible in the game world simply because it gets them barraged with a lot that detracts from actually helping the person they showed up to help. Remaining invisible also avoids the tinfoil hat conspiracy crap about favoritism and such that has become far too prevalent in MMOs.

    "...in game moderators would actually show up in person to meet out some form of justice if someone was intentionally griefing someone.  (most common was blocking access to something, since it had collision detection)"

    ^--- that was a perfect example. Guild A hates Guild B so they block the doorway. Once the GM moves the Guild B guy, the drama follows with how the corrupt GMs are helping their friends in Guild A. Far better for a GM to move the player, send a whisp or mail as to why and move on to the next case.

    There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
    "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre

  • SovrathSovrath Boston Area, MAPosts: 18,462Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Loktofeit

    In most MMOs, the support GMs rarely go visible in the game world simply because it gets them barraged with a lot that detracts from actually helping the person they showed up to help. Remaining invisible also avoids the tinfoil hat conspiracy crap about favoritism and such that has become far too prevalent in MMOs.

    "...in game moderators would actually show up in person to meet out some form of justice if someone was intentionally griefing someone.  (most common was blocking access to something, since it had collision detection)"

    ^--- that was a perfect example. Guild A hates Guild B so they block the doorway. Once the GM moves the Guild B guy, the drama follows with how the corrupt GMs are helping their friends in Guild A. Far better for a GM to move the player, send a whisp or mail as to why and move on to the next case.

    There's probably a lot of truth to that.

    One of the GM's ni Lineage 2, head gm actually, showed up with this 4 winged avatar to help a player. A short time after that he was "let go".

    I have no proof but I always wondered if that appearance had anything to do with it.

    I do now that in Aion some gm's showed up to blast gold sellers. But that's pretty rare.

  • WellzyCWellzyC Stillwater, MNPosts: 557Member Uncommon

     

    Game populations were a lot smaller back before the Main Streaming of mmos. So i think it was easier and more pactical to give players a little more one on one attention.

     

    Now the subs are 500K plus, and most appeals conists of pointless bickering instead of actuall issues.

    The way mmo's were: Community, Exploration, Character Development, Conquest.

    The way mmo's are now : Cut-Scenes,Cut-Scenes, solo Questing, Cut-Scenes...


    www.CeaselessGuild.com

  • NevulusNevulus Miami Beach, FLPosts: 1,288Member Uncommon

    GM Stories: Launch of VG, I had a GM come check out a bug in a quest i found, then he tagged along for a good hour questing with me and chit chatting.

    He then proceeded to lightning bolt 2 npcs we found that were also bugged, they died and were removed from the gaming world.

  • TerranahTerranah Stockton, CAPosts: 3,605Member

    I thing the best example for me was in Fallen Earth.  I got help from a gm in that game several times and was very impressed.  

  • EdeusEdeus Stamford, CTPosts: 506Member

    A couple of years ago in FFXI I was suffering from a glitch (or something, can't remeber) so I put in a petition for a GM.  Once the GM conversation started happening, a red glowwy GM randomly appared next to my character.  I had seen screenshots of them but never had one appear in front of me before... needless to say, other people noticed as well (it was right a the keystone in Lower Jeuno).  Once my problem was solved, there was much /cheering and /clapping and /dancing and gasping at the GM's armor stats.

     

    All other games I have never seen a GM before except on screenshots.  Even on WoW in the prime of Wotlk raiding, talking to a GM at least once a week, never saw one.

     

    image

    Taru-Gallante-Blood elf-Elysean-Kelari-Crime Fighting-Imperial Agent

  • DredphyreDredphyre Los Angeles, CAPosts: 601Member
    Originally posted by Loktofeit

    In most MMOs, the support GMs rarely go visible in the game world simply because it gets them barraged with a lot that detracts from actually helping the person they showed up to help. Remaining invisible also avoids the tinfoil hat conspiracy crap about favoritism and such that has become far too prevalent in MMOs.

    "...in game moderators would actually show up in person to meet out some form of justice if someone was intentionally griefing someone.  (most common was blocking access to something, since it had collision detection)"

    ^--- that was a perfect example. Guild A hates Guild B so they block the doorway. Once the GM moves the Guild B guy, the drama follows with how the corrupt GMs are helping their friends in Guild A. Far better for a GM to move the player, send a whisp or mail as to why and move on to the next case.

    well, some of the tinfoil hattery is actually valid <cough> EVE <cough>....but I suspect fewer and fewer GMs roam the world because there are too many needy, clingy players who barrage them with questions, or insult them, or insult the game...a lot of asshats in MMOs these days.

  • TimothyTierlessTimothyTierless Columnist M, ORPosts: 2,163Member Uncommon

    I miss the random GM doing stuff effect. It was always fun to hear legends of how a GM was said to have come in and done something.

  • UtukuMoonUtukuMoon ParisPosts: 1,066Member

    GMS are one thing but when a true giant walks the world and kills players and npc across multiple zones then you know a real titan amongs MMOs has arrived.

     

    People who were there will understand this screenshot.

    Anyway,i had plenty of GM events in EQ,some of the best were in the common lands with named dropping epic weapons.

  • KabaalKabaal Edinburgh, ScotlandPosts: 3,012Member Uncommon

    The last game i remember regularly seeing the avatars of GM's was AoC.

  • DarwaDarwa CambridgePosts: 2,184Member Uncommon

    At the weekend, I had a giant skeleton appear and trade me an item which I'd accidentally (drunkenly) deleted in EQ2, so they're still around in that game at least. Then again, it was a GM that I used to work with, and they remembered that I hated the 'skelly giggle'. Bastards. Heh

    When I was assigned to Vanguard, we'd often go around and turn people into chickens, rabbits etc for fun. I never got to be Vader or any of the other protagonists in SWG, though I was once a Nightsister at an event on Dathomir.

    But yeah, Kyleran, although in EQ2 (on Antonia Bayle, at least) there are plenty of guide events, but I do miss the days when the gods would roam Norrath and scare the crap out of people.

  • NadiaNadia Canonsburg, PAPosts: 11,866Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Kyleran

    My next title was DAOC, and while I never saw a GM enter the gameworld to mete out justice, I did have a quest glitch on me once and when I opened an in game report a moderator actually appeared in front of me in the form of a blue glowing crystal.

    i remember seeing the same thing in DAOC during an ingame wedding a few weeks after launch

    GM attended as a blue glowing crystal heh

  • RydesonRydeson Canton, OHPosts: 3,858Member Uncommon

    Those were the good ole days..  Back 10 years ago, or so, GM's were social ambassidors of the game, and were almost always helpful.. Back then the community was smaller and more personal.. It was almost a hands on approach.... But today.. MMO's are big business and the "mom and pop" way of doing business is no longer valid..  So sad..  We are stuck with walmart mmo's  for now..  lol

  • kevjardskevjards carlislePosts: 1,463Member

    believe it or not i got visited by a GM in conan because a quest chain was bugged in aztel's..from when i reported it he was on the scene in 30 secs..i nearly fell off my fuckin chair,impressed was'nt the word.he quickly updated the quest for me and vanished with the comment 'Have a nice day'.

  • LoktofeitLoktofeit Stone Mountain, GAPosts: 13,680Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Sylvarii

    Anyway,i had plenty of GM events in EQ,some of the best were in the common lands with named dropping epic weapons.

    Live Events are another ball of wax entirely. :) Most MMOs still have those to one degree or another, especially the F2P ones.

    There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
    "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre

  • QuirhidQuirhid TamperePosts: 5,969Member Common
    Originally posted by Rydeson

    Those were the good ole days..  Back 10 years ago, or so, GM's were social ambassidors of the game, and were almost always helpful.. Back then the community was smaller and more personal.. It was almost a hands on approach.... But today.. MMO's are big business and the "mom and pop" way of doing business is no longer valid..  So sad..  We are stuck with walmart mmo's  for now..  lol

    It has nothing to do with any type of walmart mentality or the like. Its to do with size and scalability.

    Issues that were not worth fixing other ways were handled by GMs. As the playerbase grew, those same problems had to be finally dealt without GMs because you simply can't afford to have as many GMs per player as when MMOs were small.

    So the bigger the game is, the better designed/implemented the game has to be so that you wouldn't need huge amounts of GMs fixing and helping people. Imagine 12 million people regularly requesting GM help because they are stuck or that their quest didn't trigger. The GM team would have to be HUGE.

    I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky

  • AldersAlders Jack Burton'sPosts: 1,858Member Uncommon

    This was a daily occurrence for anyone that spent any time camping world spawns in FFXI.  The endgame scene was cutthroat and players did anything and everything at a chance to fight them.


  • CujoSWAoACujoSWAoA Nooo, AKPosts: 1,781Member

    MMOREPGs used to be more personal experiences and more loved by their company that made them, than they are now.

    In short, the genre has become severely corporate and thusly the heart that the games had in the beginning is getting colder every year.

  • XAPKenXAPKen Northwest, INPosts: 4,941Member Uncommon

    One I got a kick out of was GM events.  A GM would load up some huge-azz monster and go ripping into a major city, raising hell.  Then off it would go dragging characters in its wake.


    Ken Fisher - Semi retired old fart Network Administrator, now turned Amateur Game Developer.  I don't Forum PVP.  If you feel I've attacked you, it was probably by accident.  Realm Lords 2 on MMORPG.com
  • KyleranKyleran Tampa, FLPosts: 20,008Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Quirhid
    Originally posted by Rydeson

    Those were the good ole days..  Back 10 years ago, or so, GM's were social ambassidors of the game, and were almost always helpful.. Back then the community was smaller and more personal.. It was almost a hands on approach.... But today.. MMO's are big business and the "mom and pop" way of doing business is no longer valid..  So sad..  We are stuck with walmart mmo's  for now..  lol

    It has nothing to do with any type of walmart mentality or the like. Its to do with size and scalability.

    Issues that were not worth fixing other ways were handled by GMs. As the playerbase grew, those same problems had to be finally dealt without GMs because you simply can't afford to have as many GMs per player as when MMOs were small.

    So the bigger the game is, the better designed/implemented the game has to be so that you wouldn't need huge amounts of GMs fixing and helping people. Imagine 12 million people regularly requesting GM help because they are stuck or that their quest didn't trigger. The GM team would have to be HUGE.

    I hear what your saying, but sort of wondering, with the much larger scaling of the player base, it means much greater revenue streams than those early titles had.

    So you might think that all that extra cash would be available to in fact put on a GM army.  I suspect the only reason they don't is their attempts to maximize the profits at the bottom line.

    It's odd how smaller games with very litte revenue seem to be able to offer so much more in terms of personal sevice, yet when the revenue jumps into the hundreds of millions of dollars, it all has to be outsourced, emailed and impersonal.

    I miss the titans. image

     

    In my day MMORPG's were so hard we fought our way through dungeons in the snow, uphill both ways.
    "I don't have one life, I have many lives" - Grunty
    Still currently "subscribed" to EVE, and only EVE!!!
    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon

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