Howdy, Stranger!
It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!
Quick Links
Lies, Damned Lies and MMORPG Forum Posts: The Truth about TSW
//\//\oo
Member, Newbie CommonPosts: 2,767
Myth: TSW is a puzzle-oriented MMO for the "thinking man"
Reality: TSW is an immersive, story-driven horror MMORPG with some, but few puzzle elements.
Beta experience corresponding to claim:
90% of the content in Innsmouth is standard, albeit quality and NOT puzzles. All of the puzzles that are in Innsmouth are easily solvable and merely involve observing minor details in the environment or reading the quest objective.
_______________________________________________________________________________________
Myth: TSW has intricate character customization that will confound WoW noobs.
Reality: TSW is intended for one person to fulfill any role at any given time as stated by the developers in various interviews. To this end there are relatively few skills in favor of one person having different roles at the ready. The only other degree of freedom merely involves enhancing what you've already selected i.e. augmenting your chosen path passively as they don't intersect (require weapon of corresponding path).
Beta experience corresponding to claim:
There is one degree of freedom with respect to customization: There are AP and SP; SP enhance certain skill set abilities passively along with your armor, while AP are used to purchase new abilities. Inevitably you do get enough AP to purchase all abilities.
There are restrictions on higher tier skills in the wheel, meaning you are forced to commit if you want to obtain the best skills possible while leveling. Furthermore the skills further down the wheel generally are somewhat reliant/complementary to the previous skills in that particular wheel. The actual set of optimal combinations is a bit smaller than it would appear at first glance because of it.
_______________________________________________________________________________________
TSW is a story-driven, ambient horror MMORPG with some point-and-click elements.
The point-and-click elements are not the most prominent features of the game, but they contribute to the immersion and are definitely the games most defining feature short of its theme. Most of the quest content seems to be relatively standard though i.e. delivery/kill/activate quests.
Everything I have stated was based on open beta experience. In the slim chance that the game takes a drastic turn, I will retract and revise what I have written.
(The following is personal opinion)
I really liked the open beta short of the games repetitive nature. I haven't been drawn into a game like this for quite a while; it nails the immersive elements down and delivers detail that makes it single-player worthy in that respect. In a way, it's sort of like a horror version of Anarchy Online.
The quest areas are well-designed in that they feel organic and open, although the zones are relatively comparable to the larger zones in AoC in terms of size.
There are annoying things like the fact you can only take a few quests at a time, or some other minor mechanics that could be changed after beta quite readily.
The combat, as many have mentioned, is absolutely horrible. It's worse than SWToRs since it offers basically no variety. It is the blandest thing I've played since CoH in that department, only worse, since at least CoH had positional requirements and pets.
If the game were as it was in the open beta, but with better combat I would have preordered it, but I refrained, because of the sheer number of kill quests you get in addition to the awful arthritis inducing combat (spam one button ad nauseam then your finisher.. ugh).
Again, as many have mentioned, this game will be incredibly niche. It obviously won't be due to intellectual challenge, but the preference of immersion over gameplay.
This is a sequence of characters intended to produce some profound mental effect, but it has failed.
Comments
Cool. What did you want to discuss?
The Deep Web is sca-ry.
So how long are we going to continue complaining about combat while having access to only the most basic of skills, which are intended to prevent new players from gimping themselfs by choosing a wrong pairing? How long are we going to keep calling the game repetative...as if were only locked into one map and need to do the repeatables for lack of other things to do?
Unless your a CBT and have played more maps and have experemented with high tier skills...im not interested in how lame combat is at "level 5" because im only going to be using those skills a short period of time
When was the last game you actually enjoyed as far as mmorpgs. Im assuming your zorvan and for the life of me i cant remember a single mmorpg you actually liked (im assuming it was a first gen mmorpg)...and yes ive been around about as long as you.
So are you impling that the higher tier skills and all maps other than kingsmouth dont exist? If so that would change my mind..yes...
Builder. Finisher. 7 active skills, at least two of them are finishers, at least one of them is a builder. At least one of the others is an elite skill.
It doesn't exactly leave you with much to do now, does it?
This is a sequence of characters intended to produce some profound mental effect, but it has failed.
Also forgetting the 7 passives.
Its why having other decks is so appealing to me. Its diffrent, forces me to make choices ect. Theres TONS of games where you have 6 hot bars packed full of skills for people who dislike this games combat mechanics.
Im not saying combat is the greatest here, im just saying that were all basing our oppinions off the lowest tier of skills.
Yeah all the builds are essentially the same in execution, and if that proves to be how it is later on in game its not going to be good for long term play.
For me the theory crafting, how the quests are run, and the setting will keep me happy long enough.
If i want awesome combat i will play TERA, and i do for that reason. I would kill to wake up tomorrow and find that they are porting teras combat into this game. If not, ill make due.
Im not going to sit here and proclaim anything untill i see what its like later on.
What happened to Crunchyblack, that was you wasn't it?
I've liked a few over the years, but the last 6 years or so has left me wanting to throw every "new" mmorpg on a bonfire.
As for your question, I'll just say that yes, those exist, but if you've played Kingsmouth, you've played TSW. New skill names and different areas don't change the underlying mechanics. What you've seen really is fundamentally what you get.
In short, TSW suffers the same problem as SW:ToR. Would have made a great, even fantastic, singleplayer game. The story and puzzles are good, for the most part. But as an mmo, it's just not going to cut it.
-Letting Derek Smart work on your game is like letting Osama bin Laden work in the White House. Something will burn.-
-And on the 8th day, man created God.-
I have reached the highest level in CBT and enjoy the game. I have flip-flopped a few times in my decision to buy or not. I will repeat that I do enjoy the game, but combat is not good. It's clear that it was a tacked on system to be used as a placeholder but was kept as a time/budget decision. The combat feels disjointed, like your attacks don't actually affect the targets, etc. We all know the animations are outdated and sloppy, but I think we can live with it. I really see the combat system as the biggest threat to the game's success. This is a game about exploration and investigation first and foremost, but if they don't improve the combat in a hurry I fear for the title.
A war of words is what happend, and crunchyblack wasnt even my first.
Anyway i must have developed low standards over the years, i havent even noticed the combat being as bad as everyone makes it, yes it doesnt stand out as awesome and it is a weakspot (based on my limited exposure)
Ive actually enjoyed quite a few games, i enjoy them for what they are, not hating them for what they are not. I wish 2004 never happend like a lot but it is what it is.
This game takes a step away from 2004's curses and ill support it, and enjoy it for being diffrent.
Truth be told, with AO as my first mmorpg that i actually played for an extended period of time, and my year and a half in AoC (joining a year after launch) ive played more funcom games than any other developers...i dunno they rub me the right way. Or mabey ive become a mmorpg hipster liking what everyone hates.
If the game is kingsmouth all the way through then ill be focusing on the story and crafting (which ive liked so far) and the dungeons....those look good enough to keep me a long time...and the world pvp will be interesting though i suspect unplayable due to graphical requirements of 150 high res dx11 characters on screen.
So when im in the tokyo scene and my shotgun is blasting zombies across the room...its not like that later on? That sure as hell felt like the mobs were effected by my shells...i did notice they game you up with a full set of passives ect though...i was expecting it to be like that later on.
Oh and people have feared for AO back in 2001 and then again with every expansion...People were 100% certain AoC would be a dead title and funcom bankrupt as well...this company is a survivor.
[mod edit]
I sit on a man's back, choking him and making him carry me, and yet assure myself and others that I am very sorry for him and wish to ease his lot by all possible means - except by getting off his back.
You could have just said "I agree, Tera has better combat", but I never even mentioned Tera, so you did the right thing.
When you list passive skills as part of the combat, I have to truly question what your motives are.
This is a sequence of characters intended to produce some profound mental effect, but it has failed.
I think it's obvious that you and I have very differing definitions to what amounts to an MMORPG, but for the sake of argument: what makes you think that TSW doesn't cut it as an MMO where as MMO's like EQ, EQ2, WoW, LotrO, Aion, CoX etc (maybe even AoC?) do cut it as MMORPG's? So what were the features in those MMO's that made them MMORPG's that TSW apparently doesn't have according to you?
Because I don't really see it. TSW looks to be as much an MMORPG as those others mentioned.
I think the whole argument 'if an MMORPG treats quests/missions as more than a trivial tasklist, then it isn't a true MMORPG' is flawed from the onset.
Passives influence the effectiveness and style/effects of your combat, so in that way they are part of the combat, namely your combat preparation and tactics. Just like the limited skill set in GW allowed for more creative builds and roles and 'deck building' than I've seen in other MMO's I've played.
Oh, my feelings are so hurt. It's ironic how nobody has refuted any of the points I've made while this forum is bustling with claims of how wonderful a puzzle MMO this really is.
Maybe it's because I'm not being paid to promote products. Just a thought. At least not this one...
This is a sequence of characters intended to produce some profound mental effect, but it has failed.
The puzzles and investigation missions really are great, and something other MMO's could definitely profit from to add some variety to the usual quest themes and mechanics. I'd definitely vote for other MMO's using more investigation type quests, sabotage missions and thinking puzzles, as well as ARG's.
I'm not really sure what you're looking for here, you gave your opinion to what you thought the game was and about your beta impressions. Even if other people might have a different opinion from their beta impressions - what are you looking for here, actually? Do you want people to vehemently disagree with your arguments, do you want them to agree with you? Is somewhere inbetween where people agree w some points, disagree w others but accept that it's your personal opinion, allowed?
At this point tbh your signals are getting kinda fuzzy.
I have always been critical here about people claiming the quests required a lot of "brain power" and googling a composer to get an answer "blew their mind" so that aspect I can agree with you it's ok but not great.. I enjoy the game for two reason
1. The atmosphere, kingsmouth does ok in this department and I enjoyed it but later areas are WAY better and the music/ambient noises are perfect all around. It's a nice change of pace from games like TERA which has great graphics but the overall world is very static and boring.
2. Options. Rift is the only other MMO I played for over 6 months in the last few years and mostly because of the soul system. I hate being locked into one role and I get bored with it very easily. Allowing me to access every role with 1 character is a HUGE incentive for me to play this game. OH forgot mission variety is nice, while none are really mind benders they do try to add some variety now and then which is a godsend after playing TERA
i like couple other things and dislike others as well but those two for me are enough for me to play for at least a couple months and ill see from there
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
Hi //\//\oo, I have not seen you around for a bit, Hope you are well.
I will read this thread tomarrow and see where it goes,
The puzzle and investigation missions are lots of fun, an the game could benefit from more of them. The remaining 80% or more of the quests are standard MMO fair, and often poorly implemented at that.
The skill customization is deep, but not what I wanted. I wanted AO's "You have 80 million skills you can throw points in, no tiers, you pick what works best". From what I see in TSW it's trying to lock you down into specs (not roles) pretty fast. And yes, maybe when you completely unlock swords you can go work on pistols or whatever, but it jsut isn't quite what I wanted. it is however what FC said they were giving us more or less from the start, so that's my problem.
The atmosphere and horror theme of the game are fantastic. there's some major niggling issues with character design (yeah I know, I'll believe them when they are implemented), and sound (still. no. footfalls.), but overall it suceeds in creating the environment I want.
I will agree with the OP on this much though: I am sick to death of any time you criticize some part of this game, someone goes "This is a game for smart people, you must be too dumb to get it." because of the investigation quests. Seriously, they don't require a supergenius. And they still have nothing to do with the animation, combat, and customization problems.
I'll just point out one thing from your first post as most of your misinformation is easily found by researching. (Not saying all you post is false just some of it.)
You are not restricted on how many skills you can learn but how many and what can you can equip from the list. You can only having 1 equipped of the top tier true BUT that doesn't mean you can't learn the other top tier skills and switch when your fed up of the current one or your switching weapons/magic for some dungeon or specific place.
You are completely wrong on point 2, having 1 weapeon is weak, you need to develop at least 2 weapeons at once to be effective, further more great builds are using passives from 3rd and 4th weapeon types. By the end of this weekend, I had a fully functioning mob pack build, a decent single hard Target build, a great healing build, and an ok tanking build (although I didn't have tank gear), also could have probably worked a decent "bard" build from it.
Also the game demands you switch deck to succeed, certain dungeon bosses require different group make ups and skills.
Also as you "level" you gain ap and sp at a faster rate, an inverse of your normal "leveling curve"
The truth about TSW is that it's a mediocre SPRPG.
Now where have we seen that before?
heh well at least this one tried not to copy every other game before it and has a good atmosphere going for it unlike that OTHER game
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
It's kind of ridiculous how a number of MMO gamers on these forums think that making the questing more interesting and immersive than a bare bones task list, makes an MMORPG a SPRPG. As if one excludes the other.
That kind of binary thinking really is 'Alice in Wonderland' type of logic
You dont see the application of passives having any effects in combat? Really...
Yeah i like TERA's combat, and yes TSW combat is average at best. I like TSW's classless application and endless skill deck ability to theorycraft as well.
"When you list passive skills as part of the combat, I have to truly question what your motives are." still cant believe you wrote that...in an attempt to discredit my position? Mabey you should make a new thread quoting that post?
It's not a clone of a single game, but it does feel like a good mix between 3 or so others I have played. This is not a bad thing. I mean, the game is not horrible, It's OK, but that's all it is. It's playable.
If you like the story line and you like unraveling the plot of the game over time, then this game will be worth the price.
For me, No. Not worth a box plus a sub plus putting up with whatever cash shop items spring up. And basing FunCom's cash shop history between AoC and AO, TSW will have more than just souvenir T-Shirts in it.
What makes it a SPRPG is that all through CB (Which I will admit, I kinda stopped), I never once needed to group. In fact the way the quests are designed, group is actually counterproductive to questing.