I'm kind of mad how the big swords are over the top and not the...
Dragons!
I might get banned for this. - Rizel Star.
I'm not afraid to tell trolls what they [need] to hear, even if that means for me to have an forced absence afterwards.
P2P LOGIC = If it's P2P it means longevity, overall better game, and THE BEST SUPPORT EVER!!!!!(Which has been rinsed and repeated about a thousand times)
Common Sense Logic = P2P logic is no better than F2P Logic.
There are very realistic looking Two Handed Swords and there are also some very oversized ones as well. With Transmutation stones, you can pick the look you want. Options are great and people should be able to wield the look they prefer.
This is one of the most over-sized 2H Swords I could find and I would actually get a kick out of having my character wield one:
What I see here is a lot of incredibly pedantic discussion of medieval weapon that's rife with misconceptions. The one thing I havent seen is the idea that of course norn are likely to use larger weapons. I mean, look at them. What looks ridiculous on a human could make perfect sense on a norn.
"There are two great powers, and they've been fighting since time began. Every advance in human life, every scrap of knowledge and wisdom and decency we have has been torn by one side from the teeth of the other. Every little increase in human freedom has been fought over ferociously between those who want us to know more and be wiser and stronger, and those who want us to obey and be humble and submit."
John Parry, to his son Will; "The Subtle Knife," by Phillip Pullman
What I see here is a lot of incredibly pedantic discussion of medieval weapon that's rife with misconceptions. The one thing I havent seen is the idea that of course norn are likely to use larger weapons. I mean, look at them. What looks ridiculous on a human could make perfect sense on a norn.
First problem with that is weapons scale. While you're right, the claymore a Norn weirls is MUCH bigger than the one a human does. And both a proportionately ridiculous. Second is no one is going to reliably swing a sword in regular, repetitive combat when the blade is3/4ths the length of their body and wider than their waist. It's just physics. If inertia didn't screw you over, you'd just plain tire out after swinging the thing for a couple minutes. Just cause a man can bench press 150 lbs doesn't mean he can swing a 150lb sword to and fro. Not for long anyway. I don't care HOW strong the Norns are.
In fact, true scottish claymores were among the heaviest bladed weapons used in combat, and weighed ~6lbs. Now look at that screenshot someone jsut posted of a "big" sword and tell me that thing doesn't weight an ounce less than 20lbs.
Mind you the entire argument is countered by the fact it's a fantasy game. Just saying.
The real problem there is not the size of the blade but the lady wielding it. I seen Wallace sword (or at least the sword that the museum in Stirling say he wielded), it was longer than me. Wallace was 210cm and could wield something a normal size person can't.
A sword weight a lot less than most people thing (a normal sword 1,5-2kg, a 2h 2,5-3,5) but for you to use a blade effective you need one of the right size.
Ok, the blade is too wide anyways so it still doesn't look like a real sword but more as a wallhanger. But few MMO devs ever hold a real sword in their hand.
It is said that the sword of D. Afonso Henriques, 1st king of Portugal, weighted aprox. 15 kg...i dont even want to think about the armor...and the poor horses omg...
How tall did you set your character to be? Greatswords averaged about 4.5' in length, I believe... So if that was a short chick, that could be exactly right. Even if she is a bit bigger it isn't that much over the top, and we would need a really precise ruler to compare. Also, the hilt is too long, IMO.
What I see here is a lot of incredibly pedantic discussion of medieval weapon that's rife with misconceptions. The one thing I havent seen is the idea that of course norn are likely to use larger weapons. I mean, look at them. What looks ridiculous on a human could make perfect sense on a norn.
First problem with that is weapons scale. While you're right, the claymore a Norn weirls is MUCH bigger than the one a human does. And both a proportionately ridiculous. Second is no one is going to reliably swing a sword in regular, repetitive combat when the blade is3/4ths the length of their body and wider than their waist. It's just physics. If inertia didn't screw you over, you'd just plain tire out after swinging the thing for a couple minutes. Just cause a man can bench press 150 lbs doesn't mean he can swing a 150lb sword to and fro. Not for long anyway. I don't care HOW strong the Norns are.
In fact, true scottish claymores were among the heaviest bladed weapons used in combat, and weighed ~6lbs. Now look at that screenshot someone jsut posted of a "big" sword and tell me that thing doesn't weight an ounce less than 20lbs.
Mind you the entire argument is countered by the fact it's a fantasy game. Just saying.
I don't know... I know someone who can swing a 15lb sledge for a good hour... I also know someone with a good amount of property who cuts wood with an axe that probably weights around 10 lbs(it is NOT a little hatchet, heh) and he can go for a very long time....
I believe your thinking of the Battle of Vienna in 1683. King Jan Sobieski III of Poland led a cavalry charge of about 20,000 men including his personal contingent of 3,000 Winged Hussars, breaking through Ottoman lines into their encampments and shattering the seige of Vienna. Remember though that the Ottoman cannon were positioned to seige the city and not engage enemy relief forces. Had those cannon been in play it could have been a quite different result.
Nah, I was thinking about Wiechel 1656 when the Hussars were storming the Swedish army and everyone except 8 guys get gunned down. Seems like my memory were off by 25 years yesterday, I was tired...
The real problem there is not the size of the blade but the lady wielding it. I seen Wallace sword (or at least the sword that the museum in Stirling say he wielded), it was longer than me. Wallace was 210cm and could wield something a normal size person can't.
A sword weight a lot less than most people thing (a normal sword 1,5-2kg, a 2h 2,5-3,5) but for you to use a blade effective you need one of the right size.
Ok, the blade is too wide anyways so it still doesn't look like a real sword but more as a wallhanger. But few MMO devs ever hold a real sword in their hand.
It is said that the sword of D. Afonso Henriques, 1st king of Portugal, weighted aprox. 15 kg...i dont even want to think about the armor...and the poor horses omg...
That might be true but I doubt he actually used it then. You just can´t use anything over 5kg at all in battle and even that is extremely heavy.
What I see here is a lot of incredibly pedantic discussion of medieval weapon that's rife with misconceptions. The one thing I havent seen is the idea that of course norn are likely to use larger weapons. I mean, look at them. What looks ridiculous on a human could make perfect sense on a norn.
First problem with that is weapons scale. While you're right, the claymore a Norn weirls is MUCH bigger than the one a human does. And both a proportionately ridiculous. Second is no one is going to reliably swing a sword in regular, repetitive combat when the blade is3/4ths the length of their body and wider than their waist. It's just physics. If inertia didn't screw you over, you'd just plain tire out after swinging the thing for a couple minutes. Just cause a man can bench press 150 lbs doesn't mean he can swing a 150lb sword to and fro. Not for long anyway. I don't care HOW strong the Norns are.
In fact, true scottish claymores were among the heaviest bladed weapons used in combat, and weighed ~6lbs. Now look at that screenshot someone jsut posted of a "big" sword and tell me that thing doesn't weight an ounce less than 20lbs.
Mind you the entire argument is countered by the fact it's a fantasy game. Just saying.
I don't know... I know someone who can swing a 15lb sledge for a good hour... I also know someone with a good amount of property who cuts wood with an axe that probably weights around 10 lbs(it is NOT a little hatchet, heh) and he can go for a very long time....
Sure. Because when you swing an axe or a sledgehammer properly you let its weight do most of the work. That isn't the way you use swords typically. Also you can use the haft of a hammer or axe for blocking things. A greatsword does not really work that way, you still must parry which works quite different. Some greatsword have a blunted or even leather bound lower section of the blade so that they can have some thing like the effect of a block, but you still must parry in particular ways to get the full use of the blade. Parrying is quite a bit different than a straight up block.
And if you are using swords that way you really should consider switching to an axe. Greatswords serve a particular set of purposes they aren't the way they are becasue they hit terrically hard or slice terrically awesome. They do a bit of both but one of their main advantages is reach + a long striking surface. Taking out a horse's legs is much more likely with a greatsword than a long hafted axe of some sort.
You want to hit really hard use an axe or even more use a halberd. You don't need weight to slice really well. In fact a claymore slices less well than a katana even though its larger.
Here is a warrior with a sword...I'm not sure how great it is! I think if you are using it and you don't chop off your own arm it is classified as a Greatsword.
Sure. Because when you swing an axe or a sledgehammer properly you let its weight do most of the work. That isn't the way you use swords typically. Also you can use the haft of a hammer or axe for blocking things. A greatsword does not really work that way, you still must parry which works quite different. Some greatsword have a blunted or even leather bound lower section of the blade so that they can have some thing like the effect of a block, but you still must parry in particular ways to get the full use of the blade. Parrying is quite a bit different than a straight up block.
And if you are using swords that way you really should consider switching to an axe. Greatswords serve a particular set of purposes they aren't the way they are becasue they hit terrically hard or slice terrically awesome. They do a bit of both but one of their main advantages is reach + a long striking surface. Taking out a horse's legs is much more likely with a greatsword than a long hafted axe of some sort.
You want to hit really hard use an axe or even more use a halberd. You don't need weight to slice really well. In fact a claymore slices less well than a katana even though its larger.
It is also where you hold the thing, with a sledgehammer (which are shorter) you have one hand up rather high. The greatsword is longer and you hold it in one side.
So, no. You don't use a blade like that for real battle. But I don't doubt that the blade existed even though he just used it for show.
For all those who are interested in swords, may I suggest an excellent documentary from 2008 named "Reclaiming the Blade"... it's really interesting and also mentions other types of weapons.
Otherwise, it is well known that to get past plate armor, the best way is bludgeonning or piercing, slashing weapons like a sword will do you little good unless used to pierce between two plates with its tip, and of course armors were designed to stop that from happening.
EDIT:
Have you seen that documentary, Loke?
Respect, walk, what did you say? Respect, walk Are you talkin' to me? Are you talkin' to me? - PANTERA at HELLFEST 2023
How tall did you set your character to be? Greatswords averaged about 4.5' in length, I believe... So if that was a short chick, that could be exactly right. Even if she is a bit bigger it isn't that much over the top, and we would need a really precise ruler to compare. Also, the hilt is too long, IMO.
Here's the bit you are forgetting, it's not just about the length (TWSS)
At its widest, that blade is quite a bit more than her arms, and nearly as much as her waist. Most large blades were far, far narrower. This weapon would weight a TON.
Oh and those replying to my earlier post...yes your friend can swing a maul in a downward smash for an hour. Trying fighting with a blade that weights that much is a whole other story. The motion of the swings, and the fact you have to counterswing differently, makes a lot of difference.
At its widest, that blade is quite a bit more than her arms, and nearly as much as her waist. Most large blades were far, far narrower. This weapon would weight a TON.
Nowadays, you could make a sword with a resilient and sharp material that would be of that size and still be very light.
But I'm nitpicking for the sake of nitpicking here - such things were not possible in the medieval times ;-)
Respect, walk, what did you say? Respect, walk Are you talkin' to me? Are you talkin' to me? - PANTERA at HELLFEST 2023
At its widest, that blade is quite a bit more than her arms, and nearly as much as her waist. Most large blades were far, far narrower. This weapon would weight a TON.
Nowadays, you could make a sword with a resilient and sharp material that would be of that size and still be very light.
But I'm nitpicking for the sake of nitpicking here - such things were not possible in the medieval times ;-)
You're forgetting one of the most important things about swords, though, namely the weight balance. A good sword's weight would balance itself out approximately an inch or so past the guard. That made them much easier to swing quickly.
Whereas a poorly balanced sword, such as the one you are describing, would swing much more like a club (due to its weight being centered around the blade) and be far harder to use with any amount of finesse.
So even if it were true that you could make a good, lightweight sword of that size, it still would not be practical.
Wow. Lots of great info in this thread. I see how big the swords were in real life. They are realistic then, well some of them :-)
I still wish for some smaller ones (not 1 handed)
Yeah, hopefully there is a good variety, I think a smaller 'greatsword' would be cool as well. Maybe something like a hand-and-a-half bastard sword type.
Actually, that's kind of a cool thought. Bastard swords were made to be wielded in either one hand or two - it would be neat if the game had them and also supported using them either way.
Wow. Lots of great info in this thread. I see how big the swords were in real life. They are realistic then, well some of them :-)
I still wish for some smaller ones (not 1 handed)
Yeah, hopefully there is a good variety, I think a smaller 'greatsword' would be cool as well. Maybe something like a hand-and-a-half bastard sword type.
Actually, that's kind of a cool thought. Bastard swords were made to be wielded in either one hand or two - it would be neat if the game had them and also supported using them either way.
Comments
omg, after watching several of these videos...I just want to play!
I'm kind of mad how the big swords are over the top and not the...
Dragons!
I might get banned for this. - Rizel Star.
I'm not afraid to tell trolls what they [need] to hear, even if that means for me to have an forced absence afterwards.
P2P LOGIC = If it's P2P it means longevity, overall better game, and THE BEST SUPPORT EVER!!!!!(Which has been rinsed and repeated about a thousand times)
Common Sense Logic = P2P logic is no better than F2P Logic.
There are very realistic looking Two Handed Swords and there are also some very oversized ones as well. With Transmutation stones, you can pick the look you want. Options are great and people should be able to wield the look they prefer.
This is one of the most over-sized 2H Swords I could find and I would actually get a kick out of having my character wield one:
Want to know more about GW2 and why there is so much buzz? Start here: Guild Wars 2 Mass Info for the Uninitiated
What I see here is a lot of incredibly pedantic discussion of medieval weapon that's rife with misconceptions. The one thing I havent seen is the idea that of course norn are likely to use larger weapons. I mean, look at them. What looks ridiculous on a human could make perfect sense on a norn.
"There are two great powers, and they've been fighting since time began. Every advance in human life, every scrap of knowledge and wisdom and decency we have has been torn by one side from the teeth of the other. Every little increase in human freedom has been fought over ferociously between those who want us to know more and be wiser and stronger, and those who want us to obey and be humble and submit."
John Parry, to his son Will; "The Subtle Knife," by Phillip Pullman
First problem with that is weapons scale. While you're right, the claymore a Norn weirls is MUCH bigger than the one a human does. And both a proportionately ridiculous. Second is no one is going to reliably swing a sword in regular, repetitive combat when the blade is3/4ths the length of their body and wider than their waist. It's just physics. If inertia didn't screw you over, you'd just plain tire out after swinging the thing for a couple minutes. Just cause a man can bench press 150 lbs doesn't mean he can swing a 150lb sword to and fro. Not for long anyway. I don't care HOW strong the Norns are.
In fact, true scottish claymores were among the heaviest bladed weapons used in combat, and weighed ~6lbs. Now look at that screenshot someone jsut posted of a "big" sword and tell me that thing doesn't weight an ounce less than 20lbs.
Mind you the entire argument is countered by the fact it's a fantasy game. Just saying.
It is said that the sword of D. Afonso Henriques, 1st king of Portugal, weighted aprox. 15 kg...i dont even want to think about the armor...and the poor horses omg...
I think that would be more accurately described as a "sword-shaped bludgeon."
If it is true, it was definitely decorative.
How tall did you set your character to be? Greatswords averaged about 4.5' in length, I believe... So if that was a short chick, that could be exactly right. Even if she is a bit bigger it isn't that much over the top, and we would need a really precise ruler to compare. Also, the hilt is too long, IMO.
I don't know... I know someone who can swing a 15lb sledge for a good hour... I also know someone with a good amount of property who cuts wood with an axe that probably weights around 10 lbs(it is NOT a little hatchet, heh) and he can go for a very long time....
Nah, I was thinking about Wiechel 1656 when the Hussars were storming the Swedish army and everyone except 8 guys get gunned down. Seems like my memory were off by 25 years yesterday, I was tired...
That might be true but I doubt he actually used it then. You just can´t use anything over 5kg at all in battle and even that is extremely heavy.
Sure. Because when you swing an axe or a sledgehammer properly you let its weight do most of the work. That isn't the way you use swords typically. Also you can use the haft of a hammer or axe for blocking things. A greatsword does not really work that way, you still must parry which works quite different. Some greatsword have a blunted or even leather bound lower section of the blade so that they can have some thing like the effect of a block, but you still must parry in particular ways to get the full use of the blade. Parrying is quite a bit different than a straight up block.
And if you are using swords that way you really should consider switching to an axe. Greatswords serve a particular set of purposes they aren't the way they are becasue they hit terrically hard or slice terrically awesome. They do a bit of both but one of their main advantages is reach + a long striking surface. Taking out a horse's legs is much more likely with a greatsword than a long hafted axe of some sort.
You want to hit really hard use an axe or even more use a halberd. You don't need weight to slice really well. In fact a claymore slices less well than a katana even though its larger.
Thats an F'n! awsome sword,imo! :^)
It is also where you hold the thing, with a sledgehammer (which are shorter) you have one hand up rather high. The greatsword is longer and you hold it in one side.
So, no. You don't use a blade like that for real battle. But I don't doubt that the blade existed even though he just used it for show.
For all those who are interested in swords, may I suggest an excellent documentary from 2008 named "Reclaiming the Blade"... it's really interesting and also mentions other types of weapons.
Otherwise, it is well known that to get past plate armor, the best way is bludgeonning or piercing, slashing weapons like a sword will do you little good unless used to pierce between two plates with its tip, and of course armors were designed to stop that from happening.
EDIT:
Have you seen that documentary, Loke?
Respect, walk
Are you talkin' to me? Are you talkin' to me?
- PANTERA at HELLFEST 2023
Here's the bit you are forgetting, it's not just about the length (TWSS)
At its widest, that blade is quite a bit more than her arms, and nearly as much as her waist. Most large blades were far, far narrower. This weapon would weight a TON.
Oh and those replying to my earlier post...yes your friend can swing a maul in a downward smash for an hour. Trying fighting with a blade that weights that much is a whole other story. The motion of the swings, and the fact you have to counterswing differently, makes a lot of difference.
Nowadays, you could make a sword with a resilient and sharp material that would be of that size and still be very light.
But I'm nitpicking for the sake of nitpicking here - such things were not possible in the medieval times ;-)
Respect, walk
Are you talkin' to me? Are you talkin' to me?
- PANTERA at HELLFEST 2023
You're forgetting one of the most important things about swords, though, namely the weight balance. A good sword's weight would balance itself out approximately an inch or so past the guard. That made them much easier to swing quickly.
Whereas a poorly balanced sword, such as the one you are describing, would swing much more like a club (due to its weight being centered around the blade) and be far harder to use with any amount of finesse.
So even if it were true that you could make a good, lightweight sword of that size, it still would not be practical.
Wow. Lots of great info in this thread. I see how big the swords were in real life. They are realistic then, well some of them :-)
I still wish for some smaller ones (not 1 handed)
Yeah, hopefully there is a good variety, I think a smaller 'greatsword' would be cool as well. Maybe something like a hand-and-a-half bastard sword type.
Actually, that's kind of a cool thought. Bastard swords were made to be wielded in either one hand or two - it would be neat if the game had them and also supported using them either way.
The crafted bronze sword seemed to be pretty "historically accurate" to me.
Respect, walk
Are you talkin' to me? Are you talkin' to me?
- PANTERA at HELLFEST 2023
Well, I am encouraged that while I expect some of the greatswords to get toward the goofy side, it doesn't look like it's going to get like this:
Coulden't agree more :-)