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A bit difficult?

ZolgarZolgar Glouster, OHPosts: 533Member

While I can appreciate a game (particularly an MMORPG) that actually requires some group play, I have to wonder; Is it just me or is Vanguard a bit tough in the trial island? 

 

I've rolled both a Shaman and a Necromancer and I can generally do well against 1, MAYBE 2 targets at most. Any more than that and I'm dead. Around level 4-5ish you go to the Earth Den, and I swear, it's damn near impossible for me to enter without a group (which I finally managed to get after a while). Perhaps I missed it in the quest log, but fighting Zaldaz (sp?) also is extremely difficult without at least one other player. Then there's the Hobgoblin encampment where you first see the ulvari and have to get those little chests. It seems impossible (or at least I'm assuming it is, and I fully admit that I could possibly just suck pretty horribly) to do without pulling 2 or 3 targets at once. Again, maybe I'm just absolutely horrible, or I'm playing the "wrong" class (or playing the "right" class wrong), but the difficulty to me seems insane. I can appreciate a challenge, and group content is always welcomed (that's what the Multiplayer in MMO is all about afterall) but I seem to be really having some trouble here. Anyone have any advice, feedback, opinions, etc?

 

-Z

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Comments

  • delete5230delete5230 Posts: 2,957Member Uncommon

    Your right, it's not just you, a few parts of the trial Island are hard.  I think it was designed to practice grouping to prepare for a group oriented game.   Some classes are harder than others to play by yourself in the areas you were talking about.  My friend and I both agree that if done enough times you can find the sweet spot to where they can be soloed, but the beginners area is not designed to be soloed.  It can be, but not made for it.

     

     On the main land after level 20 soloing is very hard, the game is made for a duo or more.  If you choose to play Vanguard as a solo player you would probably not like the game.

     

    I use the word CHOOSE because it really is a choice to play alone or with others EVEN IF THE POPULATION IS LOW.

     

    Vanguard is a social game made to group, I already covered that.  Some would say the population is low so it's impossible. WRONG....Here is why :

     People look for groups wrong in all mmo's, They get by anyway in most mmo's because because they are easy.  If they find others great, but if not thats ok too just solo until you do.  People think that spamming open chat for groups works.  I say no. You get very few players to help. Why ? :

    a) Others don't always follow chat, to see others advertising.

    b) Most times others don't have a clue of what people are advertising, so it gets ignored. 

    Why the above method turned to be the popular method in an mmo is beyond me, because it sucks and rarely ever worked in finding others.

     

    SOOOO Now your expecting a solution Right ?....Well I have one !

    Years ago, Playing Vanilla WoW and without a Dungeon finder, I just loved playing Dungeons. Players would advertise a dungeon in general chat, I would except. But we would never get full groups. 10 20 30 45 minutes would pass. We would get maybe three, sometimes even four.  Everyone would be spamming General chat, their Guilds, nothing, the well went dry we would not have that Tank or Healer no matter how hard we tried.

    Then one day, I got an idea :

    Let me try the games Social panel, search by class and level and ask directly.  I would find that Priest or Warrior and explain what we would like to do, where it is, and why we need him.....Guess what, It worked !.....every time !

    Often I would be asked " how did you find me "....Easy, the social panel !........No one ever thinks of using it.  It's their in most all mmos but no one ever uses it, EVER.

    Some here would say thats rude........I say, what ?....I say, bull crap....I say why ?  99% of the time in six years of doing this I got maybe two players ever, that would be mad that I spammed them.  EVERYONE welcomes an invite unless they are logging off soon, crafting or just wayyyy too shy.

     

    I played Vanguard with it's low population with no problems at all.  My friends list would be longer than anyone's, as I would add them as we played, I would get to know the entire community at my level.  Even to the point that Guilds would be worthless to me.  For me and only me, but Guilds are worthless, It's just another chat channel in most cases.  However I would ask in Guilds and general chat anyway, just in-case someone has an alt Tank or Healer, but just not playing it at the time.

    Do this in Vanguard.  And you will never EVER have a population problem....You will have full groups in 10 minutes.  You will get to know everyone at your level.

  • UtukuMoonUtukuMoon ParisPosts: 1,066Member

    You really should wait till level six before going into the earth den,that way you have your level six spells.On top of that you also choose the only two pet classes in the game,the Shaman really comes alive once you get your pet at level 15.Necro is a great solo class when it comes to kiting but in underground dungeons where space to kite is lacking they are not so good.

    Certain classes like the disciple can go into the earth den at level 5 and survive plus a disciple can actually do the main dungeon solo at level ten,it takes great concentration and carefull pulling but it can be done especially if you know how to approach Vanguard pulling mobs.

    Duo up if you are finding it hard but make no mistake,the isle is childs play compared to the actual game.If you are finding it hard now then i don't know what to say.

  • delete5230delete5230 Posts: 2,957Member Uncommon

    On to another topic...... Are you new to Vanguard ?

    I posted this before, but others should see this.

    If you new to Vanguard, if you like the game, and your social, try this :

     

    Do your research.  Find a Dungeon web site on the net for Vanguard.  In game, scout out the dungeon, play around the entrance, get a feel of the environment.  Search around the local area, and find the dungeon quest.  Understand whats going on.

    Even if you totally new to Vanguard generate some guts, use the social panel and find others.  Explain how to get their, have the quest ready to give them.  Bring them to the entrance and have fun.

    Chances are that you will have a few Vet's with you that can lead.....Understand that your only getting the group together, you don't have to be incharge.....I told my friend one day, I don't know how to play, I just know how to find people :)

    Have fun !!!!!

  • delete5230delete5230 Posts: 2,957Member Uncommon

    One more topic and I'll shut up.

    A new way to play Vanguard or any mmo.

     

    Play for community instead of by levels..........What ?

    Try and make your goal to be social. A good day for me is making three more friends. I never gave a rats butt about leveling to end game.

     

     

    Spend your time researching Dungeons, and getting others.

    Spend a little time chatting with your friends list.

    Spend you time helping strangers with NOTHING IN RETURN.  Do some quest even if you get no experience, add them to friends, tomorrow you can quest together.

    Veterans will show you stuff that you never even knew.  Don't forget a lot of veterans don't know how to find friends either in most mmo's.  Even if they played for years.

     

     

    A good day is three more friends, not going from level 29 to level 31.

  • pierthpierth San Antonio, TXPosts: 1,503Member

    Zolgar, I had the same issue at first but after trying multiple classes to see which I preferred to play it seemed like it was just a bit of a learning curve, really- at least up until the Temple. At that point I really, really recommend at least duoing with someone. As was said previously in the thread Vanguard isn't suited for soloing in adventuring and at the times that I can't even find one other person to group with (and even with the current low population that's pretty rare) I can always do diplomacy or craft.

  • TorgrimTorgrim GothenburgPosts: 2,088Member

    Well it depends on your class and ofc lvl, I had no problem with my Paladin then again I'm usally 1-2 lvl over the quests req.

    If it's not broken, you are not innovating.

  • keenberkeenber galwayPosts: 438Member

    Vanguard is very much like EQ in its difucultly lvl and the way each class have to fight in a differant way to reach there goal.

    I completed the starter island with most of the classes by useing the powers i have to make the task more easy. A bit of thought and more than a few deaths and you can usally find a solution to most quests solo. I will try a quest a few times and if i find it too hard i ussally will just kill mobs till i lvl and try again. Allso i mix up a bit of crafting to make sure i have as good gear and spells as i can for my lvl.

    EQ and Vanguard are MMOs that have to be experanced as a whole not just rush head long into every fight like most modern MMOs.

    And grouping in these kind of MMOs is great fun and if you can play your toon right will give you some pride in what you have been able to do to help your group mates complete them hard quests and who knows you may just make new friends that will be fiends for years.

  • delete5230delete5230 Posts: 2,957Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by keenber

    Vanguard is very much like EQ in its difucultly lvl and the way each class have to fight in a differant way to reach there goal.

    I completed the starter island with most of the classes by useing the powers i have to make the task more easy. A bit of thought and more than a few deaths and you can usally find a solution to most quests solo. I will try a quest a few times and if i find it too hard i ussally will just kill mobs till i lvl and try again. Allso i mix up a bit of crafting to make sure i have as good gear and spells as i can for my lvl.

    EQ and Vanguard are MMOs that have to be experanced as a whole not just rush head long into every fight like most modern MMOs.

    And grouping in these kind of MMOs is great fun and if you can play your toon right will give you some pride in what you have been able to do to help your group mates complete them hard quests and who knows you may just make new friends that will be fiends for years.

    That was great keenber :)

    I found that all classes are for the most part balanced. HOWEVER some are to be played with a deeper understanding. If you can find that just right combo, it's just amazing what it could do.....And if not, the class could really seem to suck, only to find this is not true if you can find that sweet spot.

  • ZolgarZolgar Glouster, OHPosts: 533Member

    Thanks everyone for the feedback. :D

     

    I went and rolled a Paladin, and it's been the complete opposite experience. I've rolled through everything previously mentioned with ease. Closest I came to dying so far was with Zaldaz. My lack of skill aside, it's been a pretty nifty experience so far. Although, I was flying the Pegasus around and got stuck in a barrier and fell through the world, and had to have a GM summon me, but that was more funny than anything. I'm definitely going to keep at it, and try to complete the island with the Necromancer I rolled and if I'm still "Feeling it", subscribe.

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  • MMOman101MMOman101 Posts: 1,274Member Uncommon

    Slow, higher level, and careful.  If you are going into a place a group area you can solo but you need to follow those 3 rules.  I am not sure I would say the game is hard, it is just you need to adjust your expectations of what you can taken on. 

  • infensisinfensis Kinnelon, NJPosts: 35Member
    Originally posted by Zolgar

    Thanks everyone for the feedback. :D

     

    I went and rolled a Paladin, and it's been the complete opposite experience. I've rolled through everything previously mentioned with ease. Closest I came to dying so far was with Zaldaz. My lack of skill aside, it's been a pretty nifty experience so far. Although, I was flying the Pegasus around and got stuck in a barrier and fell through the world, and had to have a GM summon me, but that was more funny than anything. I'm definitely going to keep at it, and try to complete the island with the Necromancer I rolled and if I'm still "Feeling it", subscribe.

    If Zaldaz is who I think you are fighting - you are supposed to use a ring to attack him which makes him a 2 hit kill.  You shouldn't come close to dying.

     

  • ZolgarZolgar Glouster, OHPosts: 533Member
    Originally posted by infensis
    Originally posted by Zolgar

    Thanks everyone for the feedback. :D

     

    I went and rolled a Paladin, and it's been the complete opposite experience. I've rolled through everything previously mentioned with ease. Closest I came to dying so far was with Zaldaz. My lack of skill aside, it's been a pretty nifty experience so far. Although, I was flying the Pegasus around and got stuck in a barrier and fell through the world, and had to have a GM summon me, but that was more funny than anything. I'm definitely going to keep at it, and try to complete the island with the Necromancer I rolled and if I'm still "Feeling it", subscribe.

    If Zaldaz is who I think you are fighting - you are supposed to use a ring to attack him which makes him a 2 hit kill.  You shouldn't come close to dying.

     

    I didn't know you could use the ring on him. I just used the ring on the stone minions to summon him, start talking to him, then he attacks.

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  • infensisinfensis Kinnelon, NJPosts: 35Member
    Originally posted by Zolgar
    Originally posted by infensis
    Originally posted by Zolgar

    Thanks everyone for the feedback. :D

     

    I went and rolled a Paladin, and it's been the complete opposite experience. I've rolled through everything previously mentioned with ease. Closest I came to dying so far was with Zaldaz. My lack of skill aside, it's been a pretty nifty experience so far. Although, I was flying the Pegasus around and got stuck in a barrier and fell through the world, and had to have a GM summon me, but that was more funny than anything. I'm definitely going to keep at it, and try to complete the island with the Necromancer I rolled and if I'm still "Feeling it", subscribe.

    If Zaldaz is who I think you are fighting - you are supposed to use a ring to attack him which makes him a 2 hit kill.  You shouldn't come close to dying.

     

    I didn't know you could use the ring on him. I just used the ring on the stone minions to summon him, start talking to him, then he attacks.

    OK - that is the main issue you are facing with him then.  Once you talk to him and he starts to attack you - use the ring on him.  When I was trying out a squishy toon you can run a bit low on health, otherwise - I think I beat him solo with most classes on the Isle.

    I will say that if you use the ring too soon before he attacks you and burn the cooldown, then you will be in trouble.  I never made it to a third use of the ring with him solo.

     

  • xDayxxDayx St Charles, MOPosts: 712Member
    Originally posted by Zolgar

    While I can appreciate a game (particularly an MMORPG) that actually requires some group play, I have to wonder; Is it just me or is Vanguard a bit tough in the trial island? 

     

    I've rolled both a Shaman and a Necromancer and I can generally do well against 1, MAYBE 2 targets at most. Any more than that and I'm dead. Around level 4-5ish you go to the Earth Den, and I swear, it's damn near impossible for me to enter without a group (which I finally managed to get after a while). Perhaps I missed it in the quest log, but fighting Zaldaz (sp?) also is extremely difficult without at least one other player. Then there's the Hobgoblin encampment where you first see the ulvari and have to get those little chests. It seems impossible (or at least I'm assuming it is, and I fully admit that I could possibly just suck pretty horribly) to do without pulling 2 or 3 targets at once. Again, maybe I'm just absolutely horrible, or I'm playing the "wrong" class (or playing the "right" class wrong), but the difficulty to me seems insane. I can appreciate a challenge, and group content is always welcomed (that's what the Multiplayer in MMO is all about afterall) but I seem to be really having some trouble here. Anyone have any advice, feedback, opinions, etc?

     

    -Z

    This is why I hold the opinion that VG is one of the only Themeparks left with some respect.

  • GaeluianGaeluian Dousman, WIPosts: 83Member Uncommon

    I've said it before, but, the hardcore fans will flame for it;  SOE needs to add mercs to Vanguard. I can't tell you how much content I've passed up just because it was too hard, and could not find a group.  And, I refuse to join another guild....ever.

  • xDayxxDayx St Charles, MOPosts: 712Member
    Originally posted by Gaeluian

    I've said it before, but, the hardcore fans will flame for it;  SOE needs to add mercs to Vanguard. I can't tell you how much content I've passed up just because it was too hard, and could not find a group.  And, I refuse to join another guild....ever.

    Im not going to flame you. But I do hold the opinion that there are enough themeparks with easier content. Cant the themepark genre just have one "a little more" difficult game to its name?

    The irony is... probably as we speak there are devs at Sony currently revamping VG to make it easier. Its a shame.

  • AdamantineAdamantine NowherePosts: 3,514Member

    A duo or even more full group helps a lot on IoD. With a full 6 people team, even the temple is most extremely trivialistic.

    It also depends a bit on your class. A fully equipped and leveled level 10 paladin or dread knight has an easy time soloing the temple. Other classes have to step a bit more careful, but many can still manage.

    Shaman is a weak class though, until you hit level 15. If you go bear, you will be pretty much the best solist of them all afterwards.

     

  • delete5230delete5230 Posts: 2,957Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by xDayx
    Originally posted by Gaeluian

    I've said it before, but, the hardcore fans will flame for it;  SOE needs to add mercs to Vanguard. I can't tell you how much content I've passed up just because it was too hard, and could not find a group.  And, I refuse to join another guild....ever.

    Im not going to flame you. But I do hold the opinion that there are enough themeparks with easier content. Cant the themepark genre just have one "a little more" difficult game to its name?

    The irony is... probably as we speak there are devs at Sony currently revamping VG to make it easier. Its a shame.

    I have to agree with xDaysx,

    This is an MMO.  Vanguard is an old school MMO, meaning that It's gonna be hard.

    I'll spell things out here. You have different types of video games. You have First Person Shooters, Strategy games, You have games made for kids, and others made for adults.  You have Solo type mmo's with Voice acting video clips like SWTOR, and you have lobby mmo's that are based on Instanced group play like World of Warcraft.  Their all played different.  It just so happens that Vanguard is Old School, and is made to play with others.

    Vanguard is a group game.  It's an mmo that is made to be dependent on others, more so than any other mmo.

    Now the Island of Dawn starting are is made for players to get accustom to how the real world will be played.  And part of that is learning how to group.  Yes, the starting area can be soloed if played several times, BUT THAT'S NOT THE POINT. There are three point's to where the player is expecting to group. The level 3 cave at the beginning, The Zlot area around level 6, and the starter dungeon at level 9.

    EVERY TIME I had played the Island of Dawn I could clearly see other players standing around looking for others to do this group content.  Add to the fact that players in chat are also looking for help.  Thats two choices to find help, unless your trying to play at 2 AM in the morning, finding others is easily  a guaranteed.

    If you choose to insist on soloing anyway then Vanguard is not for you....Up until the last few years ANY MMO WOULD NOT BE FOR YOU if you decided not to group and play an mmo solo !!!!!

    Now Vanguard has it's faults, I'll give you that.  The real world is too large with a low population, SOE never advertised, coding is still a problem. We all could go on and on. BUT AGAIN THAT'S NOT THE POINT HERE.

    If you absolutely insist on soloing the starter area, then this TYPE of video game is not for you !....Adding Mercs will make Vanguard into a solo game.  Sure their should be some solo content added to the real world, and grouping should not be completely mandatory all the time, but thats a different topic and I'll cover that in a new post.  But for now it's 4:30 in the morning, and my eyes are burning.

  • DecadentiaDecadentia Saint John, NBPosts: 464Member
    Originally posted by delete5230
    Originally posted by xDayx
    Originally posted by Gaeluian

    I've said it before, but, the hardcore fans will flame for it;  SOE needs to add mercs to Vanguard. I can't tell you how much content I've passed up just because it was too hard, and could not find a group.  And, I refuse to join another guild....ever.

    Im not going to flame you. But I do hold the opinion that there are enough themeparks with easier content. Cant the themepark genre just have one "a little more" difficult game to its name?

    The irony is... probably as we speak there are devs at Sony currently revamping VG to make it easier. Its a shame.

    ...

    Vanguard is a group game.  It's an mmo that is made to be dependent on others, more so than any other mmo.

    ...

    While I would agree that Vanguard is more difficult than your modern mmo, it's dwarfed in comparison to games like FFXI etc which truly do require grouping up (dependent on others). It's a difficult game to solo, but it's not the most difficult by any means.

    I agree that it also would benefit anyone to group up, but for most they will likely solo quite a bit of the game (similar to other modern mmos), they will just experience more difficulty. With it's current population it takes an outside-the-box approach and eagerness sometimes to find groups.

    All that being said, I'm really hoping there are an influx of players when it goes F2P, so that many others find groups easier. It's a fantastic game, it deserves to be experienced.

  • LarlochLarloch Antioch, CAPosts: 19Member

    Have they made the newbie island easier since this post? It is nowhere near the difficulty of EQ1. I hope the real game gets much harder.

  • AsboAsbo ManchesterPosts: 796Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Decadentia
    Originally posted by delete5230
    Originally posted by xDayx
    Originally posted by Gaeluian

    I've said it before, but, the hardcore fans will flame for it;  SOE needs to add mercs to Vanguard. I can't tell you how much content I've passed up just because it was too hard, and could not find a group.  And, I refuse to join another guild....ever.

    Im not going to flame you. But I do hold the opinion that there are enough themeparks with easier content. Cant the themepark genre just have one "a little more" difficult game to its name?

    The irony is... probably as we speak there are devs at Sony currently revamping VG to make it easier. Its a shame.

    ...

    Vanguard is a group game.  It's an mmo that is made to be dependent on others, more so than any other mmo.

    ...

    While I would agree that Vanguard is more difficult than your modern mmo, it's dwarfed in comparison to games like FFXI etc which truly do require grouping up (dependent on others). It's a difficult game to solo, but it's not the most difficult by any means.

    I agree that it also would benefit anyone to group up, but for most they will likely solo quite a bit of the game (similar to other modern mmos), they will just experience more difficulty. With it's current population it takes an outside-the-box approach and eagerness sometimes to find groups.

    All that being said, I'm really hoping there are an influx of players when it goes F2P, so that many others find groups easier. It's a fantastic game, it deserves to be experienced.

     I've just returned to the game to see what the current state of the game was like and have to say It's fun to play and still as hard as it used to be and I hope they don't make it easy when it does go F2P like they did with EQI. If you find a guild and play in teams you will blast through the content and have loads of fun. But I suggest that you max out all three spheres on the starter isle as this will set you up for a great start on the main game. I've started a new toon as I forgot how to play I been away form that long. I'm lucky as I have two accounts and was able to box them both which is one of the good things about SOE games they do allow for this type of play.

    Bandit

    Asbo

  • SovrathSovrath Boston Area, MAPosts: 18,453Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Larloch

    Have they made the newbie island easier since this post? It is nowhere near the difficulty of EQ1. I hope the real game gets much harder.

    The new playere island is easier than many parts of the main game. There are areas on your map that will list the appropriate levels for your character but once getting there you will see you either need a group or need to be above the level for the area or play smartly.

     

  • ZorgoZorgo Deepintheheartof, TXPosts: 2,226Member

    Just fyi you can use that ring on Zalaz to make him weaker too if I remember correctly.

  • SuperXero89SuperXero89 Amory, MSPosts: 2,544Member Uncommon

    Vanguard isn't a whole lot more difficult than any themepark.  The problem is that the majority of the content is meant to be experienced with at least one other player.  Because of Vanguard's population issues, it can be difficult to find players to level with; meaning players are often forced to attempt to solo group-based content.

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