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GW2 WvsW and...Mount & Blade Warband?.
Temp1234
Member UncommonPosts: 47
in Guild Wars 2
Hey guys, for those people playing this game for the WvsW element...have you tried the Mount and Blade:Warband game?. For those who have, could i please get your opinion only on WvsW in GW2 and the Mount and Blade series? Seems like WvsW in GW2 is essentially what Warband is..except Warband does it better. Please, only respond if you've actually played both and are familiar with the features and gameplay of both games.
Thanks in advance
-Temp
Comments
I've played both and I'm familiar with the features and gameplay of both games, I've played the M&B games since the very first release. GW2 does it better.
I have only played GW2. I love realm vs realm conflict(am a long time x DAOC player).GW2 3 day beta WvW was fun. 8 hour WvW was boring as "heck". THE WvW MAP IS TOO SMALL ! A 24/7 zerg IS BORING !
GW2 WvW is a good start....but just that.
Having played Warband and GW2 WvW I can tell you that your on something if you really think they are even remotely alike.
Warband is a melee and horse combat simulator with some archery, in any decent server you have to aim both your swings and your blocks in order to kill someone and stay alive.
GW2 is an MMO, it combat style is push button but with active dodging as well as some ground targeted stuff much like a MOBA game.
The gameplay style is completely different. Even if both games have a mode in which you capture castles its still completely different. GW2 has siege weapons, multiple castles to siege, supply camps, NPC allies, and 3 sides each one having more people than was ever on any Warband server.
Honestly i think comparing those games make no sense at all, yes they both have siege, but there is nothing similar in them, they are like from 2 different world.
First both combat are totally different for a starter, which have a huge impact overall. In GW2 you actually have to take down doors or walls with siege engines to enter and have to kill a boss at the center of the castle or keep to make it officially yours, something m&b don't have obviously, you can upgrade your structure. Archery play totally differently, and M&b have no magery. I don't know it's just a bit silly to compare them. WvW is real mmo/rts mix map with maybe 20+ keep and castle (i didn't counted them) and your server have to take control over the territory against other servers, the castles are very close to each others.You are supposed to have hundreds of players non stop in WvW...
If i had to make a list of all the difference i wouldn't even know where to begin with. One is fps aimed at realism, the other is a pure mmo type of gameplay, i don't know how better i could tell the difference.
Here is the official blog about Anet WvW to give you a better idea of the siege mechanism in GW2:
http://www.arena.net/blog/mike-ferguson-on-guild-wars-2-world-vs-world
umm...not really looking to compare the 2 really. I'm just trying to decide weither to actually get it. I realize ones considered an mmo and the other more of an fps, but for me its just about the pvp and if its fun..regardless if its tab targeting with dodge or fps aiming. I've been reading some of threads here and like Warband, apparently skill plays a large factor...thats why i was looking to get some more info. I highly doubt you will be dealing with 250+ players on screen at any given time and since theres no real incentive with WvsW...your immidiate concern is the area you're currently fighting in, you would then move back and forth from each area/keep following the frontlines. So it seems like its pvp for the sake of pvp. Which is perfectly fine ..since thats what im looking for. I guess the thing im really inquiring about is the pvp combat....actual in game battles and the feel of it, does it usually just end up being zerg fest with people bunching up and spamming skills? Unfortunatly this is usually what happens if theres alot of people fighting in one area i find when using tab targeting. One of you mentioned an RTS aspect...where does that come in?. If you mean that people will coordinate in chat during battles...i think thats just wishful thinking no?. Unless im missing an important feature i havent read about. IE: commanders or voice chat features. As for Warband not having siege features/constructs...they do.
thanks for all the replies so far, but could you guys please elaborate a little more?..I really enjoy pvp castle sieges :]
thanks again.
-temp
Skill plays a large factor, 1v1 fights take a long time, you will not get 2-shotted. With that increased fight time, skill prevails, not luck.
There is a ton of incentive to play in WvW, you should probably look into it before saying otherwise.
It is not at all a zerg fest, look on youtube for some siege videos.
Your post really seems like you just heard about GW2 a few hours ago, and instead of reading the stickied threads in the forum, or reading the wiki, or watching some youtube videos, instead you just want people to feed you information and make up your mind for you.
in sPvP 1vs1 is pointless, will take like forever to kill someone (if both are great players) .
on WvW afetr people realise what they need to do, they will start coop between guild and than will be awesome. servers that will not do this will gonna be low on server ranking. when we see lot of people hit gates with skills we can see that this guys still are nw to game and dont know how WvW work.
we all are new to game,some know more because read lot of stuff about WvW , eventually all players will know what they need to do on WvW. coop between guilds will be the key to win WvW IMO
Why is it better? Smoother? Better resource managment? More features?
What exactly?
This has been linked before, but here is a coordinated assault on a well defended area that might give you a better idea about how things work when people try to use all the tools available.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HPZHsfa6gEs
The ladders and Siege towers in Warband cannot be compared to having a Trebuchet or a Catapult. Almost every wall in the castles in GW2 can be destroyed, and considering how things can be repaired and supply lines being crucial to Keeps you get much longer and better sieges in Gw2 then Warband where a siege last at most half an hour, and then switch sides.
Taking a well fortified and defended keep in GW2 can take hours, and not to mention you have to worry about a whole other side that can either help or hurt you. Then there are 4 maps you can attack, with 3 keeps on each map and a big central keep in the middle map means that there will be multiple fights going on all the time.
Trying to compare it to 32 vs 32 fights in Warband just will not work, there is no supply in Warband, you cannot destroy the gate or even a wall, taking the keep in Warband just means that the game is over and it resets, whereas you not only have to take a keep in GW2 but defend it as well. Not to mention keep the supply lines going so that you can upgrade it and repair it as well.
Watch this video from the GW2 beta and then compare it to the sieges in Warband and you will see the massive difference.
As for organization? Thats really up to the players. There is already a commander function in GW2 where you join up to a squad and you get a specific commander chat that only the commander can use as well as normal party chat as well as local chat.
I got a friend who writes Articles for GW-Insider who is a huge fan of Warband (and esp Mount & Musket mod <-- definitely DL that if you get Warband).... I'll ask him what he thinks and relay it back here.
All I personally know is that there aren't any Horses to kill in WvWvW which is HILARIOUS btw... but there are Dolyaks.
EDIT: NvM he says they're two completely different games.
IMO, you should buy BOTH of them if you get the money. They're a lot better deal than the next BattleField DLC or Halo POKEMON or whatever it is the kids spend their money on these days
...? Like i said, i've read a bit and seen some videos of the GW2 beta...but looking at videos and reading about is different from actually playing the game. I have read some of the threads and my concern was does the the combat turn into zerg style. I've seen multiple threads showing concern/complaining about this, but instead of answers or opinions...its more hate that he/she is offering his opinion or asking about it. Same goes for people complaining about no incentive for WvsW, but if im wrong like you said...what is "Tons of incentive"? Incentive is something like either your server gets to keep that castle for a bit or buffs or i dont know increased taxes, a ranking system?? <--these are just examples to try and get a point across. If i wanted other people to think for me, i would have just went out and bought it based on all the GW2 is the next big thing threads. You're right i should have been more specific in my op thread instead...anyways...wasnt concerned about 1vs1 and class balance that much, i was asking about actual large scale pvp fights with multiple groups or simply defending/assaulting as a group. Is it usually coordinated?..or only once in a blue moon and people normally do their own thing. If i do play, it wont be because of 1vs1 in WvsW. Glad theres a commander chat when you join squads..sounds awesome. The highest player limit i've seen for Warband is like 250, not really concerned about the money. I'd like to know if its worth the timesink. Thanks for all the replies so far, if you're going go spend the time to write a response...please elaborate explain, otherwise thanks anyways for reading.
-temp
During the last 2 beta thingies, I was in PvE and I saw economic buffs listed from our WvW victories. ...similar to those offered in the cash shop
If only GW2 played like M&B WB or M&B WB had a large persistant open world to play in I would probably die at my computer from starvation.=p
As far as the actual sieging goes I think Warband nailed it down. GW2 WvW is definitly a breath of fresh air, but its not warband quality.
Played-Everything
Playing-LoL
Ye that's probably why they cut WvW in 4 maps (and will have a max number for each as they did in beta?), and have 4 or 5 structures in each i don't recall for sure. You can't really put a lot more than a couple hundreds guys in a map without turning it into a lag fest, and you better not have them all show in the same space either.
M&B is really a nice game, i wonder why we don't have more of this kind of game honestly, game company seam so much obsessed with money its kind of stupid. As if Bes couldn't have done this rather than this TESWow clone nonsense... But anyway, GW2 really offer all the dimension of an mmo M&B obviously don't have, so it have the good and the bad of it too.
For the zerg part Temp im' not sure what to tell you honestly. Mmo are also a bit about zergs, let be honest here, its the massively part of it i guess. Zerg is mostly a bad word, but it also have his good side, its nice to fight among a lot of people, even if it's a mess. But then again from a pure inside game point of view, i'm not sure GW2 will have more or less zerg behavior than M&B. Some people don't play very well, so it look as if they are zerging, it comes down to that in fact. The gamer that can organize their gameplay, their group and their guild well, they don't really "zerg" usually unless they are drunk or something.
They are nice mechanism to fight the "zerg" aspect in GW2. Siege weapons, aoe, castle back doors, the terrain give you line of sight which was as good as in fps, movement have a huge impact, WvW reset every 2weeks so zerg can't lock down the pvp. Honestly they are few vid posted about small organized group in WvW, they will give you a better idea than me. For the "organization" part i don't think you should really be concerned, faction pvp usually have good organization, especially because its server side, you can have multiple guild, i'm not sure if there is a player limit on them but i don't think so, so we might see some WvW server guild, that would help a lot. In any case its only one beta week end so its a bit hard to tell at this point.
Your OP didn't say that at all actually. May be a good time to revise it to reflect what you are actually trying to get out of this thread. The OP currently reads like 'i'm curious about GW2, mount & blade seems better, is it true?'. Which is not only asking for a comparison, but is also flame bait.
That said, gestalt posting a really good video for you. If you are honestly looking into the game, then I would strongly recommend checking these out. They are long, but show off how WvW can be played, fairly well:
Battle of Dreaming Bay:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HPZHsfa6gEs (Preliminary Narrative, can skip to ~5:40 if you want to skip it. But it sets up the siege rather nicely).
http://www.twitch.tv/okuraku/b/316654818 Shows the first part of the siege w/ out a narrative (covers what's narrated in the first video from a live-streamed point of view).
http://www.twitch.tv/okuraku/b/316654335 (part 2 of the above video)
To the part in green: That is exactly the type of incentive that exist in WvW. At the end of the dreaming bay videos, you may notice that they captured a relic. There are 3 or 4 relics in WvW, and any of the 3 teams can capture them and hide them in any of the keeps they currently own. These relics give buffs to your team. The more relics you own, the more buffs your world has.
In addition to this you get server bonus' as you gain more & more points in WvW. These are everything from exp boosts, to increased health, to crafting boosts, etc. They are definitely helpful, so there are incentives. In addition to this is the supply meta-game in WvW. You need supply to upgrade keeps, to build siege equipment, and to repair things that get broken (including your keep's main gate). You can only get supply from supply depots around the maps. If your team captures the supply depots around a keep, that depot will continuously send supply dolyaks (they look like giant bulls) to deliver supply to your keeps slowly over time. However, the enemy can also capture this, and can even hunt down the dolyak delivering supply and kill him before he has a chance to reach your keep (thus starving your team's supply). This is one of the tactics Team Legacy used in the videos above, to take on a much larger force than they had.
- As for 'will it get zergy', of course it will. It's a massive battle. Whenever you have people who aren't coordinated in a massive battle, they tend to mob up for safety. However, there are PLEANTY of ways to combat this. There's tons of AoEs you can throw. There's arrow carts, cannons, and trebuchets which easily can tear apart a zerg in seconds. So there you have it, those are the main elements of WvW, and that's where a lot of the tactics revolve around (and this game is VERY tactical, if you know what you are doing). I'm not going to say that people are going to play this game without using their brain, but if you are the type of player that likes to think about what he's doing, strategize, and make your own plans for how to tackle challenges. You will probably have a TON of fun in this game's WvW. I know I did, and 100s of others seemed to as well, even if I was cleaving their faces in.
The PvP this game has that has no real incentives atm is their instanced (arena) pvp. It's not massive, it's limited to small 5v5 matches, and there are currently only a handful of maps. They are working on these, and I know they want these to be some kind of an e-sport type deal, but atm structured pvp doesn't appear to be one of this game's stronger features. It's fun, but limited, and after playing WvW it just feels a bit lackluster.
You shouldn't have to read this thread past the post I quoted above.
Thanks a bunch for the info Requiamer and Aesperus, i had watched some of the videos and during the battle scenes and it did look like a mess as you said..but i also did not see what was happening meanwhile with before the battle or alot of what was happening during wtih the supplies and stuff in the background. Sounds like i'll probably have to grab a copy and try it myself. Asheram, there is actually a mod/mode where its quite similiar to what you might be interested in Warband called Strategus. (Crpg) Essentially you can do what you normally do in singleplayer and take over/fight for areas on the world map. You will have troops and declare war and control points/towns on the map, It then will show the name of current guild of the area. There is also an rpg element in it where you can level up your character and buy new armor and weapons to equip yourself and your guildmates. Its pretty intense, heres a vid to give you a better idea if you're interested.
thanks a bunch for the replies, have a good one.
-temp