Having everyone replay the same content on different difficulties seems like a cheap way to artificially make a small game feel bigger.
I mean there are plenty of great games that last only 12 hours, but they're advertised that way. They don't pretend to be bigger than they are. "Hey, I beat the game. It only took me 12 hours." "Yeah, but did you beat it THREE TIMES? If you do, there's at least 36 hours of content!"
Totally agree, and this is what killed WoW aswell - and the reason I'm not bothering to play diablo.
Today youngsters seems to play games for the difficulty (epeen, anyone?) and not for the experience. That something is hard, requires physical skills such at being fast om your fingers, seems to make gamers happy.
Games have no depth anymore, and Blizzard is to pretty much to blame. They have created a generation of gamers that only care about 2 things: graphics and the possibility to show off their skills. What happened to experiencing something non-graphical? What happened to having to develop complex strategies and work in teams?
Todays games are boring, and from what I can read in different posts, Diablo is yet another game in which stats, skills and depth in character development is only there for shows.
But well, as long as people have fun, there's little point complaining. I just wish that they'd make games with more depth and tactics and I think that people are not demanding enough from the developers these years.
Fortunately, i guess it's a matter of time. At some point, even the current WoW-population will probably demand some depth.
Isn't that kinda the same thing though? What's wrong with simplicity as long as the game is still fun to play and provides a good story? I would think that a game forcing players to work as a team and to develop complex strategies would be more difficult than a game that would not, and seeing as you want a game like that, you also might have a bit of an e-peen.
Nothing is wrong with simplicity, but it is a damned shame that so many simple, or superficial, games are produced. Theres hundreds of no-brainer FPS-games outthere and games like WoW and Diablo are reducing the RPG-genre to something similar. Games in which only your ability to click a mouse fast and read up on rotations really matter.
I've never played games for difficulty. I play them to socialize, for the graphics, for the sound, for the story, and for the ability to perform crazy feats and to possess god-like powers that would never have in real life. Video games, to me, are a form of escapism, and a sense of pride or personal accomplishment rarely enters the equation.
Games can get too easy, no doubt. But it is not the difficulty that adds to the experience, difficulty mainly adds to the epeen factor, I guess. I play games for the same reason you do, it seems, except I do not prioritize graphics all that much. Funny you should mention "escapism" - I founded a guild in WoW with that name.
Anyway, what happened in WoW, and seems to continue with Diablo, is Blizzard sucking up to people that wants a superficial and casual game in which stats and characterbuilding is put more and more in the background - and having fast fingers and being easy to please with "OMGfantastic" visual effects is what really matters. In short, they have reduced the RPG genre to hack and slash. Being market leaders, they have a huge effect on other developers, which is why we end up getting one WoW-clone after another instead of original games for adults.
That's not to say I never feel pride in my gaming accomplishments, for example when I down a raid boss or when I beat a 70 hour RPG. I'm human, and whether we like it or not, we all tend to pat ourselves on the back as soon as we get the chance. I just never go into said games seeking accomplishment or validation.
For 19.90 you can play 1 game now and the other 2 later,
thats an awesome deal.
Looks a way better deal than D3... i might go for that! Ty.
It primarily depends on your financial situation. In my opinion, the case is this:
You either have enough financial means, so that you do not care about those extra 40 USD comparing to Torchlight 2, so that you would like to buy a more quality, yet more expensive product which is D3.
Or you are more concerned with the price aspect, so that you would prefer to sacrifice some quality in order to save money.
The choice is yours.
I allways go for the better deal when money is involved. Quality is very important but i tend not to buy overpriced stuff, at least when things have same level of quality. I will wait and see more D3 reviews.
It's more like a to buy D3 or not to buy D3... The Torchlight 2 is a term of comparation... if Torchhlight 2 looks a better deal than D3 then i won't actually buy any. Or at least only consider TL2.
I loved D/D2 and i am really sad D3 is giving me so many doubts. I played beta and it was a 90s Diablo with a dumbed down skill system. Fun, yes! But still... Maybe i'm more demanding with my games.
Reminded me of smartphone games. Maybe thats what they are really aiming for.
In Diablo, you are unlocking new content when you unlock a new difficulty. The world is randomly generated, the events are random, the dungeons are random, monsters have different archetypes, boss fights are different, there's new loot to collect. Playing through a second, third, fourth, etc. time is the point of the game. If you are playing Diablo 3 because you want a vast world to explore with an epic enthralling story, you're doing it wrong. TES series is a totally different type of game. By the way, if you play through Skyrim on easy difficulty, will only take you about 20 hours if you skip all the sidequests and exploration.
Doing it wrong, rofl! How arrogant. As if your way is the ONLY way to play. My first time through is always about the story and exploring. It's why I play any MMO. However, once I've done that, that's what alts are for where I can focus on the loot, monsters, difficulties etc which is pretty fun in a group of friends.
I doubt I could beat the game even on normal mode in 12 hours, but even if it took 30 hours still seems a bit short.
I don't play single player games anymore (seem's like I'm stuck playing single player MMORPG's instead ) but back in the day I used to expect 80-100 hrs of game play for my money, but that doesn't seem to be the expectation anymore.
I rarely would redo content on harder modes, that never held any entertainment value for me in a game. (though some of the fhe Fallout titles were an exception, just something I love about combat shotguns)
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I doubt I could beat the game even on normal mode in 12 hours, but even if it took 30 hours still seems a bit short.
I don't play single player games anymore (seem's like I'm stuck playing single player MMORPG's instead ) but back in the day I used to expect 80-100 hrs of game play for my money, but that doesn't seem to be the expectation anymore.
I rarely would redo content on harder modes, that never held any entertainment value for me in a game. (though some of the fhe Fallout titles were an exception, just something I love about combat shotguns)
The only games I ever expected to provide that kind of mileage (not including MMOs) were JRPGs. Even then, very few came close, outside of a few primo tactical titles.
I fully expected to beat D3 within the first month (provided I have enough free time) and then begin farming. I farmed Mephisto in D2 for years. Litteraly. Years.
I want a mmorpg where people have gone through misery, have gone through school stuff and actually have had sex even. -sagil
I doubt I could beat the game even on normal mode in 12 hours, but even if it took 30 hours still seems a bit short.
I don't play single player games anymore (seem's like I'm stuck playing single player MMORPG's instead ) but back in the day I used to expect 80-100 hrs of game play for my money, but that doesn't seem to be the expectation anymore.
I rarely would redo content on harder modes, that never held any entertainment value for me in a game. (though some of the fhe Fallout titles were an exception, just something I love about combat shotguns)
The only games I ever expected to provide that kind of mileage (not including MMOs) were JRPGs. Even then, very few came close, outside of a few primo tactical titles.
I fully expected to beat D3 within the first month (provided I have enough free time) and then begin farming. I farmed Mephisto in D2 for years. Litteraly. Years.
Some Western RPG's tend to be long too. Baldur's Gate 1 and 2, Planescape Torment, Oblivion and Skyrim all took me around 50 hours to complete.
I doubt I could beat the game even on normal mode in 12 hours, but even if it took 30 hours still seems a bit short.
I don't play single player games anymore (seem's like I'm stuck playing single player MMORPG's instead ) but back in the day I used to expect 80-100 hrs of game play for my money, but that doesn't seem to be the expectation anymore.
I rarely would redo content on harder modes, that never held any entertainment value for me in a game. (though some of the fhe Fallout titles were an exception, just something I love about combat shotguns)
The only games I ever expected to provide that kind of mileage (not including MMOs) were JRPGs. Even then, very few came close, outside of a few primo tactical titles.
I fully expected to beat D3 within the first month (provided I have enough free time) and then begin farming. I farmed Mephisto in D2 for years. Litteraly. Years.
Some Western RPG's tend to be long too. Baldur's Gate 1 and 2, Planescape Torment, Oblivion and Skyrim all took me around 50 hours to complete.
I think there is a slight misunderstanding here.
BG1&2 have shitload of content , 80+ hours at least. But they are finite.
Roguelike games (like diablo , torchlight...etc) are infinite. Everything is generated a new every time you start.
So let say that the game is (only?) 12 hours long.
But when you start it again you have completely different 12 hours of new content.
So its much different from RPGs like BG
Again, i see lot of complaints here come from people that dont really understand the concept of the games like Diablo
I'm sure the OP didn't exactly take a casual stroll through the game, there is probably a bit more time for the average user.
What kills me about this thread is how many people who are saying, "Ya, but you still have higher difficulties and achievments and stufff, so there is way more than 12 hours."
When did higher difficulties and achievments become content? I've been gaming since the Atari 2600 days and I've never once replayed a game on a higher difficulty after beating it the first time. Sorry, just not my thing. Once I've done it, I've done it. I might revisit it years later but that's it. Making it more difficult isn't more game for me. It's the same shit. And achievments? Fuck off...that's not content. It's definitely not content worth a $60+tax price tag.
Very satisfying to me. The over-all environment was rather engaging and entertaining for a dungeon diver like me to find great pleasure out of playing. As a fan of Diablo 2 I was disapointed with the dumbing down of the mechanics, but in the end it wasn't that huge of an 'ick' factor to me. I'd say putting pros/cons
Pros:
1.) Fun Dungeon Crawling Combat
2.) Interesting story development (gives a more action feel in many sections)
3.) Random events provide extra challenge while normally partying.
Cons:
1.) Ending is a bit... lackluster. Felt like it should of done more.
2.) A bit to far dumbed down, itemization as of now seems a bit iffy making pure stat items generally best
3.) Relatively short. Under 12 hours of gameplay going straight through from start to end.
You haven't finished it until you've done it on every difficultly really.. thats why you need to unlock them. It will start taking much longer than 12 hours each time to finish it as it gets harder. I know people that have taken 'at least' 5 hours on just act 1 though, so you must have intentionally been aiming straight for the end?
The game is finished, opening up new difficulty levels for the sake of recycling same content isn't "additional content"
There is 4 acts, once you've completed the 4 acts, the game is finished. It's up to you wether you want to recycle content on a higher difficulty. (which i never do, simply because i've already beaten the game and know the story, so what's the point. ps. i always play on the hardest possible difficulty to begin with, if it's locked, not my fault.)
Are people really defending the idea that playing on higher difficulties is where all the content is? I find that pretty sad. Yes, I actually played the previous titles, and no I have no clue how long they took me to 'flip' (It was too long ago). And by that I mean, beat on normal then moved on. However, not sure if it's my age showing but I want a whole lot more for $60 then half a day of play-time. And by that I mean original content. Randomized dungeons does not new content make. Unless the story significantly changes later, I have no interest.
That's completely my opinion. Please don't try to convince me that replayability is the same thing as original content. When did this length of content not only become acceptable but encouraged for a full price game?
Having everyone replay the same content on different difficulties seems like a cheap way to artificially make a small game feel bigger.
I mean there are plenty of great games that last only 12 hours, but they're advertised that way. They don't pretend to be bigger than they are. "Hey, I beat the game. It only took me 12 hours." "Yeah, but did you beat it THREE TIMES? If you do, there's at least 36 hours of content!"
I have to agree and I'm a big Diablo fan (haven't play 3 yet though). What if the next sequel only takes 6 hours but has 8 difficulty levels. Where does it end?
There are certain queer times and occasions in this strange mixed affair we call life when a man takes this whole universe for a vast practical joke, though the wit thereof he but dimly discerns, and more than suspects that the joke is at nobody's expense but his own. -- Herman Melville
Are people really defending the idea that playing on higher difficulties is where all the content is? I find that pretty sad. Yes, I actually played the previous titles, and no I have no clue how long they took me to 'flip' (It was too long ago). And by that I mean, beat on normal then moved on. However, not sure if it's my age showing but I want a whole lot more for $60 then half a day of play-time. And by that I mean original content. Randomized dungeons does not new content make. Unless the story significantly changes later, I have no interest.
That's completely my opinion. Please don't try to convince me that replayability is the same thing as original content. When did this length of content not only become acceptable but encouraged for a full price game?
I find it pretty sad that you would dump 60 dollars on a game without knowing anything about it. You are not a Diablo fan so you have no clue what the series is about. No one is trying to say that replayability = original content. By definition replaying mean playing something again, aka not new?
Mission in life: Vanquish all MMORPG.com trolls - especially TESO, WOW and GW2 trolls.
its always beed this way in Diablo Insanly good cut scenes few hours of Real gameplay and After it your only choice is to waste time looking for Set items (like it will change game or mobs around) and trying same game but with higher lvl.
its strange ppl complaining about it as its the way its always was and will be 1- day game and Grindfest for pixels after
Very satisfying to me. The over-all environment was rather engaging and entertaining for a dungeon diver like me to find great pleasure out of playing. As a fan of Diablo 2 I was disapointed with the dumbing down of the mechanics, but in the end it wasn't that huge of an 'ick' factor to me. I'd say putting pros/cons
Pros: 1.) Fun Dungeon Crawling Combat 2.) Interesting story development (gives a more action feel in many sections) 3.) Random events provide extra challenge while normally partying. Cons: 1.) Ending is a bit... lackluster. Felt like it should of done more. 2.) A bit to far dumbed down, itemization as of now seems a bit iffy making pure stat items generally best 3.) Relatively short. Under 12 hours of gameplay going straight through from start to end.
If you enjoy dungeon crawlers and those old style click away games, you probably will enjoy this more then you expect even with them taking a lot of the rpg elements into the casual level.
1.) Agreed
2.) Agreed
3.) Agreed
Cons:
1.) Hmm I cannot comment on this as I ave not finished normal yet.
2.) Odd that you would come to this conclusion seeing as the items you would have finished with were maybe rare at best. There are still at least 3 tiers beyond that. Dunno maybe you were extremely lucky and finished with a set or in full legendary gear.
3.) Pretty irrelevant seeing as D3 is at best what you mentioned as a dungeon crawler. Pretty much a glorified Guantlet arcade game. And there is nothing wrong with that. Titan, Sacred 1 and 2, Torchlight, Fate and many other DCs (dungeon crawlers) have similar run times for normal if not less. That is the nature of the beast in this particular genre. It's set up that way so you CAN steamroll through even faster when you are better geared. So commenting on finishing on normal is like commenting on beating an action game on very easy.
The real question DC players want to know is: How's your gear looking
"Small minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas."
Very satisfying to me. The over-all environment was rather engaging and entertaining for a dungeon diver like me to find great pleasure out of playing. As a fan of Diablo 2 I was disapointed with the dumbing down of the mechanics, but in the end it wasn't that huge of an 'ick' factor to me. I'd say putting pros/cons
Pros:
1.) Fun Dungeon Crawling Combat
2.) Interesting story development (gives a more action feel in many sections)
3.) Random events provide extra challenge while normally partying.
Cons:
1.) Ending is a bit... lackluster. Felt like it should of done more.
2.) A bit to far dumbed down, itemization as of now seems a bit iffy making pure stat items generally best
3.) Relatively short. Under 12 hours of gameplay going straight through from start to end.
If you enjoy dungeon crawlers and those old style click away games, you probably will enjoy this more then you expect even with them taking a lot of the rpg elements into the casual level.
1.) Agreed
2.) Agreed
3.) Agreed
Cons:
1.) Hmm I cannot comment on this as I ave not finished normal yet.
2.) Odd that you would come to this conclusion seeing as the items you would have finished with were maybe rare at best. There are still at least 3 tiers beyond that. Dunno maybe you were extremely lucky and finished with a set or in full legendary gear.
3.) Pretty irrelevant seeing as D3 is at best what you mentioned as a dungeon crawler. Pretty much a glorified Guantlet arcade game. And there is nothing wrong with that. Titan, Sacred 1 and 2, Torchlight, Fate and many other DCs (dungeon crawlers) have similar run times for normal if not less. That is the nature of the beast in this particular genre. It's set up that way so you CAN steamroll through even faster when you are better geared. So commenting on finishing on normal is like commenting on beating an action game on very easy.
The real question DC players want to know is: How's your gear looking
Hehe exactly my point for some reason ppl do care about Color of your gear more than actuall game )
and TL2 at least now has Custom zone generator so you will be always in all new game
Just as a heads up, I've logged 12 hours of play time and have only just gotten into Act II on normal difficultys, it really depends on if you play Diablo like it supposed to be and fully explore and enjoy playing not just rushing the story line.
Comments
Yea, Steam have a prepurchased sale for $19.90 on Torchlight II.
You will also get Torchlight 1 for free and access Beta for Cryptic Neverwinter.
For 19.90 you can play 1 game now and the other 2 later,
thats an awesome deal.
Pardon my English as it is not my 1st language
Looks a way better deal than D3... i might go for that! Ty.
I allways go for the better deal when money is involved. Quality is very important but i tend not to buy overpriced stuff, at least when things have same level of quality. I will wait and see more D3 reviews.
It's more like a to buy D3 or not to buy D3... The Torchlight 2 is a term of comparation... if Torchhlight 2 looks a better deal than D3 then i won't actually buy any. Or at least only consider TL2.
I loved D/D2 and i am really sad D3 is giving me so many doubts. I played beta and it was a 90s Diablo with a dumbed down skill system. Fun, yes! But still... Maybe i'm more demanding with my games.
Reminded me of smartphone games. Maybe thats what they are really aiming for.
From what I understand from the article,
If you pre-order from Steam, you only get an extra copy of Torchlight I
If you pre-order from Perfect World Entertainment, you get access to beta for Cryptic Neverwinter.
They are mutally exclusive to the retailer, unless you buy two copies, one from each retailer.
How much WoW could a WoWhater hate, if a WoWhater could hate WoW?
As much WoW as a WoWhater would, if a WoWhater could hate WoW.
Torchlight 2 is great game. And POE is not to shabby either.
And with 20$ for Torchlight you will get lot and lot of good gameplay.
But than again for 60$
You will get a game that spits on T2 and POE pittiful corpse and laughs.
Seriously , after being in POE beta for long time - i love that game
T1 i play even to this day, and i just started playing T2 beta - which is pretty impressive.
But D3 is completely different league
What features you think put D3 in a completely diferent league?
Gameplay design
Quality of content
Quanitity of content
Production value
I could elaborate on those , but I wrote to much today as it is
Doing it wrong, rofl! How arrogant. As if your way is the ONLY way to play. My first time through is always about the story and exploring. It's why I play any MMO. However, once I've done that, that's what alts are for where I can focus on the loot, monsters, difficulties etc which is pretty fun in a group of friends.
I doubt I could beat the game even on normal mode in 12 hours, but even if it took 30 hours still seems a bit short.
I don't play single player games anymore (seem's like I'm stuck playing single player MMORPG's instead
) but back in the day I used to expect 80-100 hrs of game play for my money, but that doesn't seem to be the expectation anymore.
I rarely would redo content on harder modes, that never held any entertainment value for me in a game. (though some of the fhe Fallout titles were an exception, just something I love about combat shotguns)
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
The only games I ever expected to provide that kind of mileage (not including MMOs) were JRPGs. Even then, very few came close, outside of a few primo tactical titles.
I fully expected to beat D3 within the first month (provided I have enough free time) and then begin farming. I farmed Mephisto in D2 for years. Litteraly. Years.
I want a mmorpg where people have gone through misery, have gone through school stuff and actually have had sex even. -sagil
Some Western RPG's tend to be long too. Baldur's Gate 1 and 2, Planescape Torment, Oblivion and Skyrim all took me around 50 hours to complete.
I think there is a slight misunderstanding here.
BG1&2 have shitload of content , 80+ hours at least. But they are finite.
Roguelike games (like diablo , torchlight...etc) are infinite. Everything is generated a new every time you start.
So let say that the game is (only?) 12 hours long.
But when you start it again you have completely different 12 hours of new content.
So its much different from RPGs like BG
Again, i see lot of complaints here come from people that dont really understand the concept of the games like Diablo
I'm sure the OP didn't exactly take a casual stroll through the game, there is probably a bit more time for the average user.
What kills me about this thread is how many people who are saying, "Ya, but you still have higher difficulties and achievments and stufff, so there is way more than 12 hours."
When did higher difficulties and achievments become content? I've been gaming since the Atari 2600 days and I've never once replayed a game on a higher difficulty after beating it the first time. Sorry, just not my thing. Once I've done it, I've done it. I might revisit it years later but that's it. Making it more difficult isn't more game for me. It's the same shit. And achievments? Fuck off...that's not content. It's definitely not content worth a $60+tax price tag.
The game is finished, opening up new difficulty levels for the sake of recycling same content isn't "additional content"
There is 4 acts, once you've completed the 4 acts, the game is finished. It's up to you wether you want to recycle content on a higher difficulty. (which i never do, simply because i've already beaten the game and know the story, so what's the point. ps. i always play on the hardest possible difficulty to begin with, if it's locked, not my fault.)
The correct word is disappointing.
Grim Dawn, the next great action rpg!
http://www.grimdawn.com/
Come back when you've beaten inferno sire. 8)
Give me a freakin sorceress in Diablo 2 and I will beat Hell in 12 hours.
Mission in life: Vanquish all MMORPG.com trolls - especially TESO, WOW and GW2 trolls.
Are people really defending the idea that playing on higher difficulties is where all the content is? I find that pretty sad. Yes, I actually played the previous titles, and no I have no clue how long they took me to 'flip' (It was too long ago). And by that I mean, beat on normal then moved on. However, not sure if it's my age showing but I want a whole lot more for $60 then half a day of play-time. And by that I mean original content. Randomized dungeons does not new content make. Unless the story significantly changes later, I have no interest.
That's completely my opinion. Please don't try to convince me that replayability is the same thing as original content. When did this length of content not only become acceptable but encouraged for a full price game?
I have to agree and I'm a big Diablo fan (haven't play 3 yet though). What if the next sequel only takes 6 hours but has 8 difficulty levels. Where does it end?
There are certain queer times and occasions in this strange mixed affair we call life when a man takes this whole universe for a vast practical joke, though the wit thereof he but dimly discerns, and more than suspects that the joke is at nobody's expense but his own.
-- Herman Melville
I find it pretty sad that you would dump 60 dollars on a game without knowing anything about it. You are not a Diablo fan so you have no clue what the series is about. No one is trying to say that replayability = original content. By definition replaying mean playing something again, aka not new?
Mission in life: Vanquish all MMORPG.com trolls - especially TESO, WOW and GW2 trolls.
its always beed this way in Diablo Insanly good cut scenes few hours of Real gameplay and After it your only choice is to waste time looking for Set items (like it will change game or mobs around) and trying same game but with higher lvl.
its strange ppl complaining about it as its the way its always was and will be
1- day game and Grindfest for pixels after
1.) Agreed
2.) Agreed
3.) Agreed
Cons:
1.) Hmm I cannot comment on this as I ave not finished normal yet.
2.) Odd that you would come to this conclusion seeing as the items you would have finished with were maybe rare at best. There are still at least 3 tiers beyond that. Dunno maybe you were extremely lucky and finished with a set or in full legendary gear.
3.) Pretty irrelevant seeing as D3 is at best what you mentioned as a dungeon crawler. Pretty much a glorified Guantlet arcade game. And there is nothing wrong with that. Titan, Sacred 1 and 2, Torchlight, Fate and many other DCs (dungeon crawlers) have similar run times for normal if not less. That is the nature of the beast in this particular genre. It's set up that way so you CAN steamroll through even faster when you are better geared. So commenting on finishing on normal is like commenting on beating an action game on very easy.
The real question DC players want to know is: How's your gear looking
"Small minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas."
Hehe exactly my point
for some reason ppl do care about Color of your gear more than actuall game 
)
and TL2 at least now has Custom zone generator so you will be always in all new game
Just as a heads up, I've logged 12 hours of play time and have only just gotten into Act II on normal difficultys, it really depends on if you play Diablo like it supposed to be and fully explore and enjoy playing not just rushing the story line.
Mess with the best, Die like the rest