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SWTOR is dead because of arrogant, clueless lead devs

GreyhooffGreyhooff New York, NYPosts: 654Member

Here it is folks.

Interview with James Ohlen.

The real reason SWTOR is a dead game: arrogant, disconnected developers who have no clue about class balance and how their game is played.

Good players warned them the class balance changes in 1.2 would destroy the game's balance, but they did not listen to all the PTS feedback and went on regardless with nonsensical, drastic changes.

Check out this interview:

http://massively.joystiq.com/2012/05/15/hyperspace-beacon-swtors-james-ohlen-shares-the-formula-behind/

It's obvious they just won't admit lead developers' errors with 1.2 after that update destroyed class balance and killed the game's population.

Note the repeated use of phrases like:

it's extremely unlikely that we'll go "whoops, we went too far" and undo what we've already done. So don't keep asking if that's what you're hoping to hear.

We've actually answered this question publicly several times, but it seems when players don't like the answer, they keep asking hoping it will change.

Basically SWTOR will not improve.

Clueless developers like this won't fix the problems their ignorance, hubris and inexperience have caused.

They won't listen to their playerbase because they "know better".

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Comments

  • BeyornBeyorn Canton, GAPosts: 249Member Uncommon

    He does seem very smug about the whole thing.

  • TeiloTeilo LiverpoolPosts: 284Member

    If the horse is dead, why do you insist on beating it?

     

    Over and over.

     

    Seriously, find a game you like and post something positive for a change.

  • CetraCetra SingaporePosts: 358Member Uncommon

    one reason why i really hate bioware. They dont own up to mistakes and truths and try to sugar coat the problems pissing you off even more.

    I really hate it when they say "we got a dedicated team working on blah blah blah" but that feature is always bugged or badly implemented.

  • SuperDonkSuperDonk Vancouver, WAPosts: 781Member Common

    SWTOR will be used as an example of what not to do when developing and maintaining an MMO.

     

    But since EA has already moved on, saying SWTOR is not one of thier most important games, so will I.

  • PyrateLVPyrateLV Las Vegas, NVPosts: 1,096Member Common

    Originally posted by Teilo

    If the horse is dead, why do you insist on beating it?

     

    Over and over.

    Tenderizes the meat

    Tried: EQ2 - AC - EU - HZ - TR - MxO - TTO - WURM - SL - VG:SoH - PotBS - PS - AoC - WAR - DDO - SWTOR
    Played: UO - EQ1 - AO - DAoC - NC - CoH/CoV - SWG - WoW - EVE - AA - LotRO - DFO - STO - FE - MO - RIFT
    Playing: Skyrim
    Following: The Repopulation
    I want a Virtual World, not just a Game.
    ITS TOO HARD! - Matt Firor (ZeniMax)

  • garretthgarretth Chandler, AZPosts: 316Member

    players have a long memory.

     

    I'd suggest that Bioware talk to the folks over at Turbine about AC2 and its sad demise years ago.

    Turbine had the bones of a great game and ruined it...simply threw it down a stinkpit...by not understanding or listening to their playerbase.

     

     

  • PyrateLVPyrateLV Las Vegas, NVPosts: 1,096Member Common

    Originally posted by SuperDonk

    SWTOR will be used as an example of what not to do when developing and maintaining an MMO.

     

    HAHA

     

    Same was said for Vanguard and then AoC, then WAR and also STO

    Dont forget NGE.

     

    There are a long list of games in the "What NOT to do" pile.

    Problem is, Devs (for some insane reason) keep rooting around in that pile and putting that same crap back in these new games.

    Tried: EQ2 - AC - EU - HZ - TR - MxO - TTO - WURM - SL - VG:SoH - PotBS - PS - AoC - WAR - DDO - SWTOR
    Played: UO - EQ1 - AO - DAoC - NC - CoH/CoV - SWG - WoW - EVE - AA - LotRO - DFO - STO - FE - MO - RIFT
    Playing: Skyrim
    Following: The Repopulation
    I want a Virtual World, not just a Game.
    ITS TOO HARD! - Matt Firor (ZeniMax)

  • SuperDonkSuperDonk Vancouver, WAPosts: 781Member Common

    Originally posted by PyrateLV

    Originally posted by SuperDonk

    SWTOR will be used as an example of what not to do when developing and maintaining an MMO.

     

    HAHA

     

    Same was said for Vanguard and then AoC, then WAR and also STO

    Dont forget NGE.

     

    There are a long list of games in the "What NOT to do" pile.

    Problem is, Devs (for some insane reason) keep rooting around in that pile and putting that same crap back in these new games.

     Sigh...

     

    You're right....

  • SorrowSorrow St Pete, FLPosts: 1,195Member

    Sorry gotta do it....

     

     

    TOLD YOU SO!!!

     

     

    There, I feel better now...

    image

  • AbdullaDooAbdullaDoo Waukegan, ILPosts: 60Member

    To me they've been arrogant and classless for a long time.  I followed Dragon Age's progress for many years, and toward the end when people questioned why certain design choices were made (lack of scabbards, dynamic weather, and day/night cycle, etc.) devs popped up with lazy, rude, "We know better than you what makes a good game" type of responses, while community managers disciplined posters and shut down threads that were critical of certain choices.  EA had bought Bioware in there at some point during DA:O's development.  Perhaps they were influenced by EA's "corporate culture" or because going big time got into their head a little bit.  Who knows.

     

    I haven't played either DA game, so perhaps they did get it right, but the attitude is not a thing unique to TOR.  I'm not sure how many of those people worked on TOR, but it seems to me that has become Bioware's identity and that's they type of people they want working for them.  

     

    Now they've stepped out of their element with a 100x as many people paying attention.

     

     

     

     

     

     

  • RebornDragonRebornDragon Troy, MIPosts: 117Member

    >Played the beta.

    >Knew it would turn out bad.

    >Never bought the game.

  • CrunkJuice2CrunkJuice2 asdasd, INPosts: 568Member

    "They won't listen to their playerbase because they "know better".

    really? i guess you must be new to swtor.the only reason scoundrels/operatives are so gimp now are because they listened to much to there playerbase.QQing about stunlocks is what pretty much made those classes worthless in every area besides healing

     

  • CrunkJuice2CrunkJuice2 asdasd, INPosts: 568Member

    Originally posted by RebornDragon

    Played the beta.

    Knew it would turn out bad.

    Never bought the game.

     

    yeah,in my opinion.swtor is a good time waster until another mmo comes out.but sticking with it isnt really worth it in the long run,especially when your a non casual.which i happen to be

    i just hope gw2 is good

     

  • Effin_RabbitEffin_Rabbit Pittsburgh, PAPosts: 772Member Uncommon

    Not surprising in the least., the most over-hyped wildly mediocre mmo in and for years. Maybe BW's and EA's 15 year plan was to butcher a great IP.

  • RebornDragonRebornDragon Troy, MIPosts: 117Member

    Originally posted by CrunkJuice2

    "They won't listen to their playerbase because they "know better".

    really? i guess you must be new to swtor.the only reason scoundrels/operatives are so gimp now are because they listened to much to there playerbase.QQing about stunlocks is what pretty much made those classes worthless in every area besides healing

     

    Stunlocking isn't fun gameplay. A stun here and there for a quick defensive or offensive boost is fine, but being able to chain them so close together is not fun or good combat design.

  • CrunkJuice2CrunkJuice2 asdasd, INPosts: 568Member

    Originally posted by RebornDragon

    Originally posted by CrunkJuice2

    "They won't listen to their playerbase because they "know better".

    really? i guess you must be new to swtor.the only reason scoundrels/operatives are so gimp now are because they listened to much to there playerbase.QQing about stunlocks is what pretty much made those classes worthless in every area besides healing

     

    Stunlocking isn't fun gameplay. A stun here and there for a quick defensive or offensive boost is fine, but being able to chain them so close together is not fun or good combat design.

     

    regardless if it isnt fun,thats what a rogue class is suppose to do

     

    but i guess the failures they hired in for there pvp team thought differently

     

    not that it matters anyway,i doubt all the serious pvpers are even going to stay with swtor regardless.this games pvp just reminds me of world of warcraft,which was a joke

     

  • SorrowSorrow St Pete, FLPosts: 1,195Member

    Originally posted by AbdullaDoo

    To me they've been arrogant and classless for a long time.  I followed Dragon Age's progress for many years, and toward the end when people questioned why certain design choices were made (lack of scabbards, dynamic weather, and day/night cycle, etc.) devs popped up with lazy, rude, "We know better than you what makes a good game" type of responses, while community managers disciplined posters and shut down threads that were critical of certain choices.  EA had bought Bioware in there at some point during DA:O's development.  Perhaps they were influenced by EA's "corporate culture" or because going big time got into their head a little bit.  Who knows.

     

    I haven't played either DA game, so perhaps they did get it right, but the attitude is not a thing unique to TOR.  I'm not sure how many of those people worked on TOR, but it seems to me that has become Bioware's identity and that's they type of people they want working for them.  

     

    Now they've stepped out of their element with a 100x as many people paying attention.

     

     

     

     

     

     

    When they literally verbally attacked the SWTOR CB testers because we were offering feedback, called us idiots said they knew more than we ever would and we should bow down and worship them for allowing us to buy games from them well that was the point I was done with Bioware...

     

    FOREVER!

    image

  • CrunkJuice2CrunkJuice2 asdasd, INPosts: 568Member

    oh and i guess i should add this

    "In PvP, we've found that the combination of relics, adrenals, and powerful, short-duration buff abilities have led to more burst damage and shorter kill times than we originally intended. "

    the final blow to operative/scoundrel dps

     

    i guess making them already worthless as a dps class wasnt enough

  • shinkanshinkan BestinPosts: 229Member

    bringing up class balance as a reason for SWTOR being dead is just stupid, class balance is only a real issue in pvp games.

  • SuperDonkSuperDonk Vancouver, WAPosts: 781Member Common

    Originally posted by CrunkJuice2

    Originally posted by RebornDragon

    Originally posted by CrunkJuice2

    "They won't listen to their playerbase because they "know better".

    really? i guess you must be new to swtor.the only reason scoundrels/operatives are so gimp now are because they listened to much to there playerbase.QQing about stunlocks is what pretty much made those classes worthless in every area besides healing

     

    Stunlocking isn't fun gameplay. A stun here and there for a quick defensive or offensive boost is fine, but being able to chain them so close together is not fun or good combat design.

     

    regardless if it isnt fun,thats what a rogue class is suppose to do

     

    but i guess the failures they hired in for there pvp team thought differently

     

    not that it matters anyway,i doubt all the serious pvpers are even going to stay with swtor regardless.this games pvp just reminds me of world of warcraft,which was a joke

     

     If pvp in WoW is a joke, I wonder what the pvp in SWTOR should be compared to.

  • CrunkJuice2CrunkJuice2 asdasd, INPosts: 568Member

    Originally posted by shinkan

    bringing up class balance as a reason for SWTOR being dead is just stupid, class balance is only a real issue in pvp games.

     

    well im just sayin

     

    you would think hiring in the best pvp team.like they originally said they did,they would actually have some sort of clue how to balance right.not roll the dice and look at forums and see which class everyones complaining about today and nerf them

     

     

  • sirphobossirphobos Ames, IAPosts: 614Member Common

    Originally posted by Teilo

    If the horse is dead, why do you insist on beating it?

     

    Over and over.

     

    Seriously, find a game you like and post something positive for a change.

     

  • CrunkJuice2CrunkJuice2 asdasd, INPosts: 568Member

    nevermind

     

     

  • donpopukidonpopuki Dearborn, MIPosts: 591Member

    SWTOR is dead because it's a single player mmo, not because of class balance issues. No server transfers, no world lfg channel, and confusing endgame progession is why SWTOR is dead or dying. I want to play the hardmode flashpoints but it is impossible to put together a group.

  • ignore_meignore_me Apple Valley, CAPosts: 1,987Member

    Yup. This attitude is something they seem to have cultivated over there.  It's as if they were prepared to be adored, and now that the tables have turned they despise the players.

    I think someone got wise and told them not to make any more dev talking head videos. Daniel Erickson talking will now yield x number of unsubs after the concurrent user distortion.

     

    I also like how they complain about answering the same questions over and over too. That's a wtf moment for sure. 

    Survivor of the great MMORPG Famine of 2011

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