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this is how to improve the combat:

Nemesis7884Nemesis7884 ZurichPosts: 879Member Uncommon

1) speed it up 25%

2) allow players to actively dodge (as in gw2)

3) possibly allow players to actively block and push back enemies

4) make animations of characers much more dynamic and action oriented (less realistic but better looking) - you should feel the impact your weapon has and the hits of the enemy - make enemies stagger from heavy blows and make your character stagger from heavy blows

5) imrove the sound effects to fit the combat - see 4

6) improve the effects (visually and mechanically) of attacks - if something goes boom it should go BOOM and not pffff.... and enemies should feel that

7) possibily make skills more dynamic, interactive - with other skills and other players and more action oriented

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Comments

  • zevni78zevni78 grimsbyPosts: 1,133Member Uncommon

    Seconded

  • LagozLagoz LohjaPosts: 92Member

    The combat is fine as it is.

    Speeding it up would make it impossible to follow the perfect rotation.

    We have other games like Tera and GW2 with action-oriented combat.

  • Nemesis7884Nemesis7884 ZurichPosts: 879Member Uncommon

    the combat is fine yea right thats why the game recieves all the hate mostly for combat and animations - just your answer "the perfect repetition" shows that you live in the past my friend - its time to move into the future - if this game cannot manage this while other games do that are not even pay to play...the game will fail, funcome will fail again...potentially the last time...

    there is a reason gw2 has a huge fan base and ravaging reviews...there is a reason tsw doesnt, there is a reason mmo marekts are declining and that everyone is bored by the tried and true... there is a reason nokia is going down while apple is thriving - markets move and you have to follow - or die

  • wasim470wasim470 damasPosts: 243Member

    Sorry, but the Combat is not fine not at all, the game is great, but the combat is not.


     


    i would never ask for action oriented combat, i would ask for Fun combat.


     

  • Lord.BachusLord.Bachus Den HelderPosts: 9,064Member Uncommon

    how about on top of that

     

    -Improving mob AI

    -add movement patterns to the NPC's so they are less statically.

    -Add dynamics to the world

    Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)

  • xmentyxmenty SingaporePosts: 679Member

    I don't think they can afford to improve much cos AOC nearly bankrupt them.

    Lifetime subs, Box + subs + CS. ( Cryptic same concept before they are on sale )

    Feels like things are not going well in Funcom.

    That is why EA is their publisher for now.

    Pardon my English as it is not my 1st language :)

  • KenzeKenze Posts: 1,214Member Uncommon

    closed beta = game not release ready.  wait until we see release canidate before calling for overhauls

    Watch your thoughts; they become words.
    Watch your words; they become actions.
    Watch your actions; they become habits.
    Watch your habits; they become character.
    Watch your character; it becomes your destiny.
    —Lao-Tze

  • XasapisXasapis VolosPosts: 5,561Member Uncommon

    I agree with the comment about lack of impact, but I wouldn't want to see more flashy effects. Not in this setting. And of course, you can never have enough character animation.

    It seems weird that eastern mmorpgs focus so much on the character (how the avatar looks, animates, etc.) and less on the world while western mmorpgs seems to provide gorgeous backdrops and environments, but make the avatars butt ugly and the animations sub par.

  • LagozLagoz LohjaPosts: 92Member

    Originally posted by Nemesis7884

    the combat is fine yea right thats why the game recieves all the hate mostly for combat and animations - just your answer "the perfect repetition" shows that you live in the past my friend - its time to move into the future - if this game cannot manage this while other games do that are not even pay to play...the game will fail, funcome will fail again...potentially the last time...

    there is a reason gw2 has a huge fan base and ravaging reviews...there is a reason tsw doesnt, there is a reason mmo marekts are declining and that everyone is bored by the tried and true... there is a reason nokia is going down while apple is thriving - markets move and you have to follow - or die

    The main reason people are dissing the combat is because it's not GW2 or Tera. Which in my opinion is completely wrong approach. The combat was supposed to be an upgrade from the traditional mmorpg combat and it certainly does that.  TSW has the best combat system of all the previous traditional hotkey mmorpg's. Also the combat system feels dull at first but when you start realising the potential in terms of double finishers, debuffs chains, etc.. it gets a lot more interesting. It's not a flashy combat system it's a deep combat system.

    It's easy to rant about the combat when you play a limited beta with only the basic skills, fighting the weakest monsters in the game in a welcoming new player friendly zone. People went berserk about Tera having awful combat as it is before you hit higher levels. The same goes with TSW.

    If you don't enjoy the combat in TSW, move along. They are not going to change it in a month and for me that's a good thing.

    And for nice to know: I didn't enjoy GW2 combat that much. The dodge mechanic is gimmicky and the combat itself is a freaking chaotic spamfest Oo

     

  • Nemesis7884Nemesis7884 ZurichPosts: 879Member Uncommon

    first its not a closed beta its an open beta, secondly release is 1 month away so nothing will change till release

    yes i assume strongly that funcome is short of being closed down thats why they try to milk this game

    ea is unfortunatly not a good publisher because thats how they opperate

    they would rather pull back on the release date and postpone it until the end of the year and invest 200% effort in improving the game with the issues it has - some of which are absolutly approachable...

    if they dont do that, this game will be dead in 6 months from now and be free to play in 2013...its really a shame

  • Nemesis7884Nemesis7884 ZurichPosts: 879Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Lagoz

    Originally posted by Nemesis7884

    the combat is fine yea right thats why the game recieves all the hate mostly for combat and animations - just your answer "the perfect repetition" shows that you live in the past my friend - its time to move into the future - if this game cannot manage this while other games do that are not even pay to play...the game will fail, funcome will fail again...potentially the last time...

    there is a reason gw2 has a huge fan base and ravaging reviews...there is a reason tsw doesnt, there is a reason mmo marekts are declining and that everyone is bored by the tried and true... there is a reason nokia is going down while apple is thriving - markets move and you have to follow - or die

    The main reason people are dissing the combat is because it's not GW2 or Tera. Which in my opinion is completely wrong approach. The combat was supposed to be an upgrade from the traditional mmorpg combat and it certainly does that.  TSW has the best combat system of all the previous traditional hotkey mmorpg's. Also the combat system feels dull at first but when you start realising the potential in terms of double finishers, debuffs chains, etc.. it gets a lot more interesting. It's not a flashy combat system it's a deep combat system.

    It's easy to rant about the combat when you play a limited beta with only the basic skills, fighting the weakest monsters in the game in a welcoming new player friendly zone. People went berserk about Tera having awful combat as it is before you hit higher levels. The same goes with TSW.

    If you don't enjoy the combat in TSW, move along. They are not going to change it in a month and for me that's a good thing.

    And for nice to know: I didn't enjoy GW2 combat that much. The dodge mechanic is gimmicky and the combat itself is a freaking chaotic spamfest Oo

     



    thats all great - but traditional mmo combat is DEAD...its unbelievable people still havent released this after the 500st mmo that failed with the same and same and same approach...look at the mmos that succeed nowadays and look at what makes them different?

    story setting atmosphere are GREAT in tsw and funcom does a good job with that...

    i beg anyone of you a lifetime subscription of tsw (for you) against any future expansion of gw2 (for me) that this game will be dead before 2013

  • skydiver12skydiver12 burgundPosts: 432Member

    Word from a Dev: The Combat
    http://forums.thesecretworld.com/showthread.php?t=30282
    The dev post explains the idea behind the skill system.

    Additionally:
    TSW has the ability to dodge by moving out of the AOE cone / AOE circle.
    Your shots (when using a gun) can hit enemies in the line of fire.
    TSW has Line of sight (LOS)
    TSW has out of range (OOR)

    TSW has NOT the invicible frames of "dodge skills" from GW2 or TERA.


  • Nemesis7884Nemesis7884 ZurichPosts: 879Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by skydiver12

    Word from a Dev: The Combat

    http://forums.thesecretworld.com/showthread.php?t=30282

    The dev post explains the idea behind the skill system.

    Additionally:

    TSW has the ability to dodge by moving out of the AOE cone / AOE circle.

    Your shots (when using a gun) can hit enemies in the line of fire.

    TSW has Line of sight (LOS)

    TSW has out of range (OOR)

    TSW has NOT the invicible frames of "dodge skills" from GW2 or TERA.

    ROFL - moving around is NOT dodging - that is maybe fine in a snes game 15 years ago...now it just feels rdicoulos - look at the witcher 2 for some dodging action...but of course you can make it more realistcally

    the other stuff is all fine tough...

    guys its time you wake up - most mmos that get good (pre)reviews dont make it and with this game 3 of 4 beta reviews are mixed to negative...and regarding the fact that the devs want to release in june, its my assumption that they gave up

     

  • BloodaxesBloodaxes ZabbarPosts: 2,650Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Nemesis7884

    1) speed it up 25%

    2) allow players to actively dodge (as in gw2)

    3) possibly allow players to actively block and push back enemies

    4) make animations of characers much more dynamic and action oriented (less realistic but better looking) - you should feel the impact your weapon has and the hits of the enemy - make enemies stagger from heavy blows and make your character stagger from heavy blows

    5) imrove the sound effects to fit the combat - see 4

    6) improve the effects (visually and mechanically) of attacks - if something goes boom it should go BOOM and not pffff.... and enemies should feel that

    7) possibily make skills more dynamic, interactive - with other skills and other players and more action oriented

    1) No, the combat doesn't need more speed don't forget there's also pvp in this game.

    2) While some sort of dodge would be neat It shouldn't be an immune skill like in GW2, a jump/roll depending what side you double tap or whatever would be fine. 

    3) There are no shields in this game, blocking a huge zombie's bite with a pistol would look stupid.

    4) This I agree with.

    5) Sure why not.

    6) I certainly hope you don't mean more flashy by improve, this is not a fantasy mmorpg it's sort of realistic so the animations must look realistic.

    7) We couldn't try all 500 skills so we can't know what we can or can't yet.

    -------------------

    1 Thing I must say is I'm seriously getting annoyed with you people that keep on saying dynamic questings and more lively towns. Yes, it would be awesome but only GW2 has something remotely near that and it hasn't released yet.

    If the game was released for some years I would agree with you but it's still a "NEW" mechanic in mmorpg never seen before in such detail. Saying on every new game that they should have dynamics and shit or it's crap while said GW2 hasn't released yet because I'm 100% sure they are not ready on implementing all possible dynamics it's stupid.

    I love GW2 and gonna pre order it but you guys seriously disgust me.

     

    image

  • LagozLagoz LohjaPosts: 92Member

    So in short what nemesis is saying is that:

    A) If the combat is not GW2, it's bad.

    B) Traditional hotkey mmorpg combat is"DEAD"

    C) Funcom is being closed down, because TSW is such a "fail".

    D) TSW is releasing in June because "The devs gave up"

    Rofl.

  • IsawaIsawa Middle 0 Nowhere, ORPosts: 1,051Member

    Umm I was reading on official forums about people complaining on not being fast enough to dodge out of AOEs, the response was that there would be a double tap dodge. Sorry, don't have the time to provide a link.

  • skydiver12skydiver12 burgundPosts: 432Member


    Originally posted by Nemesis7884

    ROFL - moving around is NOT dodging - that is maybe fine in a snes game 15 years ago...now it just feels rdicoulos - look at the witcher 2 for some dodging action...but of course you can make it more realistcally
    the other stuff is all fine tough...
    guys its time you wake up - most mmos that get good (pre)reviews dont make it and with this game 3 of 4 beta reviews are mixed to negative...and regarding the fact that the devs want to release in june, its my assumption that they gave up


    Wait, you are telling me skills which avoid damage but silly as it is i'm still visually hit are ADVANCED? And a game which does not let you mitigate / avoid / damage by a simple button smash is not ADVANCED?

    WAIT....so my cool immunity skill from Ultima Online is actually more advanced than a combat system which does not artifically let you avoid hits by some stupid animation which still clips into the "hit"?

    You do realize GW2 added dodge skills because most people couldn't keep up with real combat mechanics and TERA has them because all their BAMs litteraly hit 360% AOE which couldn't be avoided by non blocking classes because the AOE is to huge (I'm talking argons lvl50+ here).


    YES running out of an incomming attack visually and then dodging it is ADVANCED instead of button smashing. /facepalm.


  • Nemesis7884Nemesis7884 ZurichPosts: 879Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by bloodaxes

    Originally posted by Nemesis7884

    1) speed it up 25%

    2) allow players to actively dodge (as in gw2)

    3) possibly allow players to actively block and push back enemies

    4) make animations of characers much more dynamic and action oriented (less realistic but better looking) - you should feel the impact your weapon has and the hits of the enemy - make enemies stagger from heavy blows and make your character stagger from heavy blows

    5) imrove the sound effects to fit the combat - see 4

    6) improve the effects (visually and mechanically) of attacks - if something goes boom it should go BOOM and not pffff.... and enemies should feel that

    7) possibily make skills more dynamic, interactive - with other skills and other players and more action oriented

    1) No, the combat doesn't need more speed don't forget there's also pvp in this game.

    2) While some sort of dodge would be neat It shouldn't be an immune skill like in GW2, a jump/roll depending what side you double tap or whatever would be fine. 

    3) There are no shields in this game, blocking a huge zombie's bite with a pistol would look stupid.

    4) This I agree with.

    5) Sure why not.

    6) I certainly hope you don't mean more flashy by improve, this is not a fantasy mmorpg it's sort of realistic so the animations must look realistic.

    7) We couldn't try all 500 skills so we can't know what we can or can't yet.

    -------------------

    1 Thing I must say is I'm seriously getting annoyed with you people that keep on saying dynamic questings and more lively towns. Yes, it would be awesome but only GW2 has something remotely near that and it hasn't released yet.

    If the game was released for some years I would agree with you but it's still a "NEW" mechanic in mmorpg never seen before in such detail. Saying on every new game that they should have dynamics and shit or it's crap while said GW2 hasn't released yet because I'm 100% sure they are not ready on implementing all possible dynamics it's stupid.

    I love GW2 and gonna pre order it but you guys seriously disgust me.

     



    stopp wit the crapp realism argument it IS a fantasy game - and how woud you defend an attacking zombie - as you would attack everyobdy else - blocking with your weapon or with your arm and try to push them away...

    dodge doesnt need to make you immune but it gives the combat a more dynamic feel (of course you need to adapt skills to it) - you also have this kind of back flipp ability - how is that realistic huh?? thats the kind of things i want to see and have - not slowly walking backwards while shooting the enemy as in a first person shooter released 10 years ago

    and with better effects i mean partially more flashy, i mean you should "feel" if a grenade explodes next to you and your enemies should feel it as well - if you throw a bomb into a mob it shoud makie KAWOOM as it would in real life - it should knock enemies down (and i mean KNOCK THEM THE SHIT BACK) and not just let them fall onto one knee tbowing - there should be limbses flowing around - yes this is what happens in REALITY - looking at that combat it looks like some kind of 10 years old free to play game that some students developped in their basement

    WAR had dynamic events, action oriented combat in rpg's is around of a long time, and there are plenty of games with more lively cities with flowing traffic (gta??)

  • DoomedfoxDoomedfox Elmhurts, NYPosts: 685Member Common

     

    I really hope they will not do any of this things and ruin a great game with that.

    Dodge button Dodge button Dodge button everyone seems to be hung up about that i do like the action based combat well enough (prefer the faster paced Tera over the half action of GW2 tho) but a game like TSW that offers a real option for skilling my character hell i want mt character to dodge in a game like that course i skilled it right not cause i make a roll jump and for whatever reason am not getting any dmg while doing that.

    RPGs were always about building the perfect character for me if i want a evasive build ill have to skill it that way want a meat shield skill another way most MMOs are very limited with the freedom of skilling my character they hammer me in a prebuild and try to give me the illusion of skill freedom the action based once seem even worse since here you get your plate wearing heavy shield in hand tank who can evade just as good as the light footed leather wearing dagger swinging rouge (Tera made a better job here since heavy classes block not dodge)

    Evading an attack is a small movement only anyway no roll jump which would leave you totally open for attacks in rl its a small subtle movement to the right time mostly followed up by a counter.

    Now i would not mind a dodge (and block) button if my skilling would reflect this actions my armor and weapons should be taken into consideration as well but the simpleton 1 dodge button 1 dodger move for all mechanics are just terrible (at least for me)

    To be honest as long as our combat doesn't play like a good beat em up (counters/counter counters etc) all this evading button business is pure delusion and doesn't offer that much.


    And don't give me crap now about needing skill to use the dodge function every gamer who grow up playing Super Mario on a Game Boy (the very first one) can do that in his sleep and had more of a challenge in SM

  • Nemesis7884Nemesis7884 ZurichPosts: 879Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by eluldor

    Umm I was reading on official forums about people complaining on not being fast enough to dodge out of AOEs, the response was that there would be a double tap dodge. Sorry, don't have the time to provide a link.

    the devs also said that animations were only placeholder and that everything would get so much better - and now theyre saying well its mostly done dont expect to many changes - bs - as most things from failcom

  • Nemesis7884Nemesis7884 ZurichPosts: 879Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Lagoz

    So in short what nemesis is saying is that:

    A) If the combat is not GW2, it's bad.

    B) Traditional hotkey mmorpg combat is"DEAD"

    C) Funcom is being closed down, because TSW is such a "fail".

    D) TSW is releasing in June because "The devs gave up"

    Rofl.

    A) no, im saying this combat is bad because it is bad and that gw2's combat is good becaues it is good - i am not saying it is necessary to copy gw2s comat but gave it as an example

    B) yes mostly... oh sorry yeah im wrong...recent aaa mmo releases that use the tried and true boring stationary rotation combat have been sooooo successful...

    C) potentially... i doubt funcom can just produce fail after fail - they allready have a very bad reputation within the community and that they partnered with ea shows its their last straw - and all ea cares about is making money so they will push this game out and try to milk us and than not give a rats ass about it anymore - i might be wrong...but looking at failcom and ea's history...well

    D) why would you knowingly release an unfinished product that most beta testers tell you is unfinished if you have allready a history of releasing unfinished products?

  • skydiver12skydiver12 burgundPosts: 432Member


    Originally posted by Nemesis7884

    stopp wit the crapp realism argument it IS a fantasy game - and how woud you defend an attacking zombie - as you would attack everyobdy else - blocking with your weapon or with your arm and try to push them away...
    dodge doesnt need to make you immune but it gives the combat a more dynamic feel (of course you need to adapt skills to it) - you also have this kind of back flipp ability - how is that realistic huh?? thats the kind of things i want to see and have - not slowly walking backwards while shooting the enemy as in a first person shooter released 10 years ago
    and with better effects i mean partially more flashy, i mean you should "feel" if a grenade explodes next to you and your enemies should feel it as well - if you throw a bomb into a mob it shoud makie KAWOOM as it would in real life - it should knock enemies down (and i mean KNOCK THEM THE SHIT BACK) and not just let them fall onto one knee tbowing - there should be limbses flowing around - yes this is what happens in REALITY - looking at that combat it looks like some kind of 10 years old free to play game that some students developped in their basement
    WAR had dynamic events, action oriented combat in rpg's is around of a long time, and there are plenty of games with more lively cities with flowing traffic (gta??)


    You want TSW to e a Hack & Slash MMO game, good. TSW isn't one. Move on. But be aware neither is GW2 or any other MMO, well maybe Lineage Ethernal but that's too far away.

    If you really downrate TSW for not having a living city like GTA3 - 4 you probably will be heavy annoyed at GW2 as with every other mmo on the market.

  • XasapisXasapis VolosPosts: 5,561Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Nemesis7884

    Originally posted by eluldor

    Umm I was reading on official forums about people complaining on not being fast enough to dodge out of AOEs, the response was that there would be a double tap dodge. Sorry, don't have the time to provide a link.

    the devs also said that animations were only placeholder and that everything would get so much better - and now theyre saying well its mostly done dont expect to many changes - bs - as most things from failcom

    Well, I've found and linked the dev comment regarding animation being placeholders. It's about a month old and it was made by the lead developer. You can find it below:

    http://www.darkdemonscrygaia.com/showthread.php?p=725953#post725953

    Do you have a link on the dev comment that claims that pretty much all animations are done?

  • LagozLagoz LohjaPosts: 92Member

    Originally posted by eluldor

    Umm I was reading on official forums about people complaining on not being fast enough to dodge out of AOEs, the response was that there would be a double tap dodge. Sorry, don't have the time to provide a link.

    Whoa that's all new info for me. Guess they could add that, as long as it doesn't give invulnerability like the dodge in GW2.

    But personally I would rather not have something like that in the game. The player should pay attention to his movement and positions instead of having an ohshiz button :j

  • Nemesis7884Nemesis7884 ZurichPosts: 879Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by skydiver12

     




    Originally posted by Nemesis7884

     

    stopp wit the crapp realism argument it IS a fantasy game - and how woud you defend an attacking zombie - as you would attack everyobdy else - blocking with your weapon or with your arm and try to push them away...

    dodge doesnt need to make you immune but it gives the combat a more dynamic feel (of course you need to adapt skills to it) - you also have this kind of back flipp ability - how is that realistic huh?? thats the kind of things i want to see and have - not slowly walking backwards while shooting the enemy as in a first person shooter released 10 years ago

    and with better effects i mean partially more flashy, i mean you should "feel" if a grenade explodes next to you and your enemies should feel it as well - if you throw a bomb into a mob it shoud makie KAWOOM as it would in real life - it should knock enemies down (and i mean KNOCK THEM THE SHIT BACK) and not just let them fall onto one knee tbowing - there should be limbses flowing around - yes this is what happens in REALITY - looking at that combat it looks like some kind of 10 years old free to play game that some students developped in their basement

    WAR had dynamic events, action oriented combat in rpg's is around of a long time, and there are plenty of games with more lively cities with flowing traffic (gta??)



     

    You want TSW to e a Hack & Slash MMO game, good. TSW isn't one. Move on. But be aware neither is GW2 or any other MMO, well maybe Lineage Ethernal but that's too far away.

    If you really downrate TSW for not having a living city like GTA3 - 4 you probably will be heavy annoyed at GW2 as with every other mmo on the market.

     



    dont always go to the extreme - no i dont want it ot be a h&s - i want it to have a fun combat and it hasnt...you can ignore that - even if all the previews and reviews tell you otherwise - but this will be the reason this game will fail -and i will bet money on it - and it is a god damn shame because the game has so much potential

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