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I think three factions is a really bad idea.

UWNVMEUWNVME Auburn, WAPosts: 174Member

 I know a lot of people, especially former DAOC players have been wanting to see this in a new MMO, to each his own, but coming from someone whose first MMO was DAOC, I haven't forgotten that there were downsides to splitting every server's population into three factions. I mean, was there any server in that game that had a fair realm balance? All I remember were over half the servers had Albion stomping all over the PvP zones with 100 man zergs every night, maybe 1-3 where Hibernia had just enough to put up a fight, and Midgard was pretty much just an RP free farm for the other 2 realms. One of the worst memories I had though is when they brought in the "classic" servers back in 2005, I remember at peak hours, there was a total of around 3600 online total, and when I ran a quick in game search, only about 800 of them were in my realm. When you really think about it, only being able to interact with roughly 1/4th of the entire population on your server is kind of depressing. I didn't realize it until I had settled on that server, and there were no such thing as server transfers back then.

 

But the absolute worst thing about these factions is the exclusive races. This is just really unfair and harmful in my opinion. Because now if you want to play this game with a friend/spouse/family, then your options for choosing a race are very restricted, much moreso than WoW. And this is Elder Scrolls, just about everyone whose followed the series has declared their loyalty to their favorite race.

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Comments

  • busdriverbusdriver nyPosts: 859Member

    They only need to change one small thing in this game. Its name. It has next to nothing to do with the ES serie, so just rename it to hooblah online or w/e, and people might actually give it a shot.

    I'm going to boycot this piece of shit money grab the best I can, told my friends to do the same and encourage everyone to follow.

  • MikeJTMikeJT BrisbanePosts: 83Member

    In my opinion the only factions in game should be player created. Guilds/Clans can form alliances with each other, and NPC towns can provide safe-havens for trade and commerce between neutral factions, or even between warring factions too, if players choose to do so. After all, isn't an MMO about "player choice"? (maybe not anymore)

  • KaeriganKaerigan None Of Your BusinessPosts: 689Member

    OP, surely you are lying. According to people on this site 3 faction PvP automatically balances itself out.

    <childish, provocative and highly speculative banner about your favorite game goes here>

  • VesaviusVesavius BristolPosts: 7,645Member Uncommon

    PvP in tradtional gear/ level/ class MMORPGs in general is a borked idea, including 3 faction play.

    The idea of any of it is far far better then the reality.

     

  • JoeyMMOJoeyMMO SomewherePosts: 1,326Member

    Originally posted by Kaerigan

    OP, surely you are lying. According to people on this site 3 faction PvP automatically balances itself out.

     I think there is a big difference between 3 factions per server, and one faction per server, but pitting 3 servers against each other. 3 factions per server is usually better than 2 per server balancewise, but autobalancing itself out is somewhat wishful thinking. Not sure whether your sarcasm is directed at TSW or GW2, but 3 factions isn't necessarily a bad idea, certainly not worse than 2 factions.

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  • JetrpgJetrpg Whitehouse, OHPosts: 2,376Member

    Originally posted by UWNVME

     I know a lot of people, especially former DAOC players have been wanting to see this in a new MMO, to each his own, but coming from someone whose first MMO was DAOC, I haven't forgotten that there were downsides to splitting every server's population into three factions. Or have you? I mean, was there any server in that game that had a fair realm balance? At face value more so than any 2 facton server and more than a even number faction server. So... Yes more so than every other 1 side vs 1 side pvp game. All I remember were over half the servers had Albion stomping all over the PvP zones with 100 man zergs every night, maybe 1-3 where Hibernia had just enough to put up a fight, and Midgard was pretty much just an RP free farm for the other 2 realms. And so hib and mids might face off, or both attack albs at the same time splitting their forces, certian servers were higher pop, but people left over populated factions in daoc to join the next populated... if your own everything or alot and have a giant zerg... there is no one to fight. Most of the balanced out to an close enough ratio. Not to mention the cc in the game allowed good players to beat the zerg (with 1/3 the numbers). One of the worst memories I had though is when they brought in the "classic" servers back in 2005, I remember at peak hours, there was a total of around 3600 online total, and when I ran a quick in game search, only about 800 of them were in my realm. When you really think about it, only being able to interact with roughly 1/4th of the entire population on your server is kind of depressing. I didn't realize it until I had settled on that server, and there were no such thing as server transfers back then. This was only really an issue if there were server pop caps.. and there was (but it never hit basiclly) .. but all in all lets say alb had 800 on that server and you had 600. did you lose out? What if you had 900 in hib on your server but on another only 700 albs were on did they lose out? Its all realitive and honestly a non-sequiter. SAy in GW2 if your on server with 5000 people and other person is on one with 4000 is there some big loss? Now if there simply wasn't enough population that is one thing...

    Lets say we revamp DAOC and make ther server support 15000 people with the same zones etc as now.  If you have 4000, albs has 7000 and mid has 5000. Are you saying you lose out because you can't intract in pve with those other people? I disagree, similarly you couldn't interact with players on other servers, yet didn't mind that. NOTE -- non-sequiter established. Even more so looking at that fact that you did interact with them in rvr.

    But the absolute worst thing about these factions is the exclusive races. This is just really unfair and harmful in my opinion. Because now if you want to play this game with a friend/spouse/family, then your options for choosing a race are very restricted, much moreso than WoW. DAOC's 7 a side wasn't enough? OR at release, 5 to start x 3 sides; vs your example of 4 per side x 2 sides in wow. So more races options = bad. Oh well for  ESO game its 3 per side x 3, 1 short of wows 4 per side at launch with an extra side,  plus each will be more different and offer more options in roles/play. And this is Elder Scrolls, just about everyone whose followed the series has declared their loyalty to their favorite race. Then play it,  many of the races in the ES would are not to be teaming up with others.

    I don't all together disagree with you just largely feel you have not thought much about this issue.

    PS played daoc forever 6+ years, had a top 1% top level toon on the open pvp realm until max and there was little to do, ahah shadowclan so funny i smashed in groups of them with my healer. Games like this should offer transfer with like bonus pvp, exp gains for a month or 2 to even server factions pops. at least when needed.

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  • UhwopUhwop Wilm, DEPosts: 1,663Member Uncommon

    Don't care how many factions they have, as long as I can choose which one I ally with.

     

  • ZylaxxZylaxx Erlanger, KYPosts: 2,574Member

    Originally posted by UWNVME

     I know a lot of people, especially former DAOC players have been wanting to see this in a new MMO, to each his own, but coming from someone whose first MMO was DAOC, I haven't forgotten that there were downsides to splitting every server's population into three factions. I mean, was there any server in that game that had a fair realm balance? All I remember were over half the servers had Albion stomping all over the PvP zones with 100 man zergs every night, maybe 1-3 where Hibernia had just enough to put up a fight, and Midgard was pretty much just an RP free farm for the other 2 realms. One of the worst memories I had though is when they brought in the "classic" servers back in 2005, I remember at peak hours, there was a total of around 3600 online total, and when I ran a quick in game search, only about 800 of them were in my realm. When you really think about it, only being able to interact with roughly 1/4th of the entire population on your server is kind of depressing. I didn't realize it until I had settled on that server, and there were no such thing as server transfers back then.

     

    But the absolute worst thing about these factions is the exclusive races. This is just really unfair and harmful in my opinion. Because now if you want to play this game with a friend/spouse/family, then your options for choosing a race are very restricted, much moreso than WoW. And this is Elder Scrolls, just about everyone whose followed the series has declared their loyalty to their favorite race.

    You musto of played on a crappy server.  On Guinevere I played Albion and like most servers we had the most population but in all my 2½ years we were constantly double teamed effectively making us the smaller realm.  The beauty of 3 factions allows the 2 underdogs to team up against the top dog and almost every time it worked, as it was hell trying to keep our relics.  Still though 3 faction will not save this sorry excuse for a TES MMO so the point is moot.

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  • ThorqemadaThorqemada BerlinPosts: 1,277Member Uncommon

    The most bad thing that will happen is that a wrong marketing will both alienate the Daoc-PvP-Fans and the Elder-Scrolls-Fans (and will therefore deliver cheap excuses to stay with 2 faction games).
    An Elder Scrolls Brand simply does not stand for a pvp-themepark game!

    3 Faction balance does not mean that each faction is equal to each other but that the 2 minor factions will work together to beat the major faction.
    This has to be encouraged by the gameplay mechanics that must provide a good reason to do so - if one minor faction gets an advantage to side with the major the game fails.

    But first has their marketing to do wonders bcs the brand is inherently hooked to a very different type of gameplay and i want to see them overcome that big hurdle!


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  • SEANMCADSEANMCAD Houston, TXPosts: 5,348Member

    I fail to understand why any factions are needed. Just let players create any faction they want offline.

    Correlation does not imply causation

  • ThorqemadaThorqemada BerlinPosts: 1,277Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by SEANMCAD
    I fail to understand why any factions are needed. Just let players create any faction they want offline.

    Bcs that will be as (non)effective as a 2 Faction game.

    "Torquemada... do not implore him for compassion. Torquemada... do not beg him for forgiveness. Torquemada... do not ask him for mercy. Let's face it, you can't Torquemada anything!"

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  • SEANMCADSEANMCAD Houston, TXPosts: 5,348Member

    Originally posted by Thorqemada

     




    Originally posted by SEANMCAD

    I fail to understand why any factions are needed. Just let players create any faction they want offline.




     

    Bcs that will be as (non)effective as a 2 Faction game.

    it would be dramatically more effective and dramatically less expensive for them to manage.

    In the other world its called clans.

    Correlation does not imply causation

  • iceman00iceman00 Westland, MIPosts: 1,363Member

    Originally posted by SEANMCAD

    Originally posted by Thorqemada

     




    Originally posted by SEANMCAD

    I fail to understand why any factions are needed. Just let players create any faction they want offline.




     

    Bcs that will be as (non)effective as a 2 Faction game.

    it would be dramatically more effective and dramatically less expensive for them to manage.

    In the other world its called clans.

    You need a very dedicated fanbase to make those kind of factions work.

    A traditonal run of the mill themepark MMO audience is not that type of fanbase.  :p

  • jc2008jc2008 slidell, LAPosts: 1Member

    I played for years on hib before it was cool and we were by far the least populated realm. We still managed to hold all 3 power relics (gogo pbaoe) regularly. Of course Albion would come in and zerg us to take them, but when they held all 6 they would usually end up losing all 6 to hib/mid even though we were the smaller realms. 

     

    There is only so long a larger realm could hold out to two smaller realms constantly pounding them from 2 directions.

     

    And I really liked that I didn't interact with albs/mids, the days of realm pride back then when it actually mattered if people were attacking you...

     

  • SEANMCADSEANMCAD Houston, TXPosts: 5,348Member
    Originally posted by iceman00
    Originally posted by SEANMCAD
    Originally posted by Thorqemada

     


    Originally posted by SEANMCAD
    I fail to understand why any factions are needed. Just let players create any faction they want offline.


     

    Bcs that will be as (non)effective as a 2 Faction game.

    it would be dramatically more effective and dramatically less expensive for them to manage.

    In the other world its called clans.

    You need a very dedicated fanbase to make those kind of factions work.

    A traditonal run of the mill themepark MMO audience is not that type of fanbase.  :p

    no you dont.

    player X starts a clan, posts on the forum page of the game to join his clan. Clan gets 20 players. Clan X then declares war on Clan Y for fun.

     

    Done. simple, elegant, free, very expansive, far more open than a 2,3,4,5,6 factions.

    Correlation does not imply causation

  • ShakyMoShakyMo BradfordPosts: 7,207Member
    Then you get say Russian zerg guild x, and they have 50% of the players on your server.
  • faxnadufaxnadu HelsinkiPosts: 940Member Uncommon

    nope, its one of the ideas that actually is good in mmos.

  • ShakyMoShakyMo BradfordPosts: 7,207Member
    I think 3 imperial factions might have worked better, you start of neutral, but when you go to cyrodil you end up signing for one of 3 armies.

    Or they could have gone with more factions to be different.
    High elves / wood elves
    Khajit / argonian
    Redguard / breton
    Orc / imperial
    Nord / dark elf
  • SEANMCADSEANMCAD Houston, TXPosts: 5,348Member
    Originally posted by m0lly

    nope, its one of the ideas that actually is good in mmos.

    Fallen Earth has 6 factions

    Correlation does not imply causation

  • SEANMCADSEANMCAD Houston, TXPosts: 5,348Member
    Originally posted by ShakyMo
    Then you get say Russian zerg guild x, and they have 50% of the players on your server.

    which lasts for about 3 months and then they start to fall apart from within and clans from the outside unite against them. I see it happen all the time and it makes for great real life stories. I refer as evidence Darkfall World War 1. Good times those days.

    Correlation does not imply causation

  • GTwanderGTwander San Diego, CAPosts: 6,035Member
    Originally posted by SEANMCAD
    Originally posted by m0lly

    nope, its one of the ideas that actually is good in mmos.

    Fallen Earth has 6 factions

    Face of Mankind has like 8.

    I don't think most people understand that anything above 2 factions has the same overall effect, but usually a better balance through extreme degrees of seperation.

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  • SEANMCADSEANMCAD Houston, TXPosts: 5,348Member
    Originally posted by GTwander
    Originally posted by SEANMCAD
    Originally posted by m0lly

    nope, its one of the ideas that actually is good in mmos.

    Fallen Earth has 6 factions

    Face of Mankind has like 8.

    I don't think most people understand that anything above 2 factions has the same overall effect, but usually a better balance through extreme degrees of seperation.

    I still vote for 0.

    people worry about zergs but the thing is, defeating the zergs are the exciting times. mini clans getting together, sending in spies into the zerg to cause disruption. they eventually fall nobody wants to manage a zerg for very long its a pain

    Correlation does not imply causation

  • EntinerintEntinerint brooklyn, NYPosts: 843Member Uncommon

    I'm okay with factions that are built into the game, but my real problem is that you are FORCED to join them.

    I would much rather have a choice whether I want to join a faction and fight or not.

    Darkfall is a good example of how purely player-run factions work and at the same time don't work.

    If the governments of the three major alliances in DF (not player alliances, but lore-based alliances) were actual physical things that actually held sway, and player-made factions could choose to side with them or not, then there would be a lot more weight to the context of PvP.  As it is, you get clans like "Desperate Housewives" (yeah that fits a fantasy setting...) and other crap like that.

    I'm all good with the three factions they have set up.  But unrestrict them race-wise and allow players the ability to opt-out of the war altogether.  Then let player-made factions either side with one of the three lore-based factions or not, up to them.

    Elder Scrolls is all about CHOICE.  As it stands this will be the most restrictive ES game yet.

  • ChrisboxChrisbox Monroe, NJPosts: 1,707Member Uncommon

    Really doesn't matter to me I mean 3 faction world pvp is way more exciting than 2, and I'll still be able to play the character I want depending on whatever faction. 

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  • EntinerintEntinerint brooklyn, NYPosts: 843Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Chrisbox

    Really doesn't matter to me I mean 3 faction world pvp is way more exciting than 2, and I'll still be able to play the character I want depending on whatever faction. 

    It's not world PVP, it's relegated to an end-game zone with instances and 200-player caps.

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