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Real ES fans should be happy

ChrisboxChrisbox Monroe, NJPosts: 1,707Member Uncommon

After long thought I've really come to see the good in ESO.  Many fans of the genre are complaining because of how far away from the roots the game is going in terms of gameplay for this MMO, but I am not.  Now I was immediatly hooked on the series after morrowind so your probably thinking why am I praising this game right now?  Well atleast for me,  I have a clear enough vision to see that when bringing the Elder Scrolls to the MMO genre things had to be changed.  If they kept the same combat, and same size area's, or same skills in the MMO it just wouldn't work as an MMO and would fail.  But thats why we have the non MMO versions of the game correct?  I think as fans we should be excited to see that the series is progressing into a new genre and will in turn appeal to a larger audience.  Every release Elder scrolls is setting higher standards for the next release and now that it's entering the MMO space fans of the elder scrolls world, and fans of MMO's will be able to immerse themselves in the world from a different perspective of game. 

Played-Everything
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Comments

  • MikeJTMikeJT BrisbanePosts: 83Member

    Originally posted by Chrisbox

    After long thought I've really come to see the good in ESO.  Many fans of the genre are complaining because of how far away from the roots the game is going in terms of gameplay for this MMO, but I am not.  Now I was immediatly hooked on the series after morrowind so your probably thinking why am I praising this game right now?  Well atleast for me,  I have a clear enough vision to see that when bringing the Elder Scrolls to the MMO genre things had to be changed.  If they kept the same combat, and same size area's, or same skills in the MMO it just wouldn't work as an MMO and would fail.  But thats why we have the non MMO versions of the game correct?  I think as fans we should be excited to see that the series is progressing into a new genre and will in turn appeal to a larger audience.  Every release Elder scrolls is setting higher standards for the next release and now that it's entering the MMO space fans of the elder scrolls world, and fans of MMO's will be able to immerse themselves in the world from a different perspective of game. 

    How wouldn't it work? Why wouldn't the same combat work? You aim your cursor in the direction of the person you want to hit, and you click to attack. If you're in range and aiming at them, you hit, if you're not in range or not aiming right, you don't. The game then checks your skill with that weapon and your strength, applies that to a formula along with statistics on your weapon, then checks your opponents armor and other damage mitigating factors, and subtracts an amount of HP from your opponent. Repeat.

    How is this any different from most tab target MMO's, except for the fact that you have to aim and judge distance?

    As for same size areas I totally agree with you. Cyrodiil in Oblivion was far too small - you could literally run from Bruma to Leyawiin in under 30 minutes (following the roads, less if you cut cross country). That trip should take much longer (although they probably shouldn't do it full scale).

    Skill wise I don't see the problem either. And which skill set are we specifically referring to? Skills in Skyrim? Skills in Oblivion? Morrowind? Daggerfall? Regardless of which we are referring to, I don't see any issues in adapting them to an MMO. Can you point out a specific skill that would be completely out of place in an MMO?

  • SEANMCADSEANMCAD Houston, TXPosts: 5,348Member

    Originally posted by Chrisbox

    After long thought I've really come to see the good in ESO.  Many fans of the genre are complaining because of how far away from the roots the game is going in terms of gameplay for this MMO, but I am not.  Now I was immediatly hooked on the series after morrowind so your probably thinking why am I praising this game right now?  Well atleast for me,  I have a clear enough vision to see that when bringing the Elder Scrolls to the MMO genre things had to be changed.  If they kept the same combat, and same size area's, or same skills in the MMO it just wouldn't work as an MMO and would fail.  But thats why we have the non MMO versions of the game correct?  I think as fans we should be excited to see that the series is progressing into a new genre and will in turn appeal to a larger audience.  Every release Elder scrolls is setting higher standards for the next release and now that it's entering the MMO space fans of the elder scrolls world, and fans of MMO's will be able to immerse themselves in the world from a different perspective of game. 

    The only thing good about TES Online is that it actually makes Darkfall look better.

    Morrowind and Skyrim are very likely two of my top 5 favorite games and everything I have read about this new game so far are complete deal breakers to me every paying them money for it.

    Correlation does not imply causation

  • DistopiaDistopia Baltimore, MDPosts: 16,915Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by SEANMCAD

    The only thing good about TES Online is that it actually makes Darkfall look better.

    Morrowind and Skyrim are very likely two of my top 5 favorite games and everything I have read about this new game so far are complete deal breakers to me every paying them money for it.

    How so? Darkfall is in no way a better game because Zenimax decided against going with FPS combat. Darkfall does not offer an Elder-Scrolls-esque experience. It's a FPS, FFA, PVP game... One that very few who try it have any desire to stick around. IF they want Darkfall 2.0 to see a different fate they had better gut Darkfall 1.0 entirely and build a different game. Even then I doubt it will be a TES experience in the least bit. You can dislike TESO all you want, but please give this Darkfall nonsense a rest.

    If Darkfall is what you crave from a TES experience, by all means continue the mindless grind, and endless PVP. It sounds like you have your game, enjoy it....

    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson

    It is a sign of a defeated man, to attack at ones character in the face of logic and reason- Me

  • UhwopUhwop Wilm, DEPosts: 1,663Member Uncommon

    Taking away freedom in a game is not a higher standard, it's the standard in MMO's today.

    Millions of people are familliar with the freedom you have in an ES game, and it's never been a negative aspect of the game.  The idea that it wouldn't be good for an MMO is nonsense and entirely speculative.  There is no quality, modern MMO out there that can be used to demonstrate that a UO style MMO won't appeal to a wider audience. 

    They do not need to go all out to maintan the same level of freedom available in an ES game.  Instanced housing, which is effectively what you get in the ES games, is more then feasable in an MMO today.  The ability to choose faction, without it being tide to the race you play, is doable if you don't write a storyline that forces you into a specific faction. 

    I shouldn't be required to play the adventuring type.  I should be able to improve skills that allow me to be a master swordsmith, and not just a warrior with weaponsmithing as a proffesion.  You can put restrictions on the way that the ES skill progression works without resorting to a strickly class based system.  Create paths that you choose to follow that won't allow you to gimp yourself.  If you want to be a master crafter it should be a skill progession option, with the obvious outcome being that you'll be really good at crafting stuff and not so great at killing stuff.  A simplified version of Anarchy onlines skill progression would be better then the standard you are whatever class you picked at character creation system that is used in just about every MMO.

    There is no balancing an MMO, and doing anything on the idea that you're attempting to achieve balance is wishful thinking. 

     

     

    Not everyone is going to have the same taste in what they consider to be fun gameplay.  In the end though, you're making an ES game, it should play like one.  If you enjoyed playing the ES games, then you would enjoy playing an MMO version of one; there is no reason to deviate from the same level of quality gameplay that has been provided to us in the past.

    This is why every ES fan shouldn't be happy with what it looks like ESO is going to be.  We should be demanding as much as we've gotten in the past, not settling for less.  

  • MadnessRealmMadnessRealm Montreal, QCPosts: 2,716Member Uncommon

    Absolutely ridiculous thread title.

    The assumption made in the title that you're not a "real" fan of the TES serie is completely stupid, but...not surprising considering all the idiocy some "real fans" often post on this forum. As for the post itself, I can assure you that, had The Elder Scrolls Online not be called as such, no one would've ever though that they would be related. That's how far away from the TES style, that TESO is. And no, your assumption that the skill system or combat would not work in an MMO is wrong. Would it require some tweaking? Yes, but allowing players to be who they are based on how they act is not revolutionnary in MMORPGs, it's been done since UO. As for the combat, Mortal Online or DarkFall may not be the best examples because of the incompetence of their developers, but it can still be done.

    Just because we're "fans" of a serie, doesn't mean we should buy and support eveything they put out even if we don't like it, especially when it's done by an entirely different studio, and the Bethesda Game Studio themselves are subtly distancing themselves from TESO. (See blog and twitter)

    Well I'm glad that I'm not a "real fan". At least I won't be hyped up to the point of buying yet another product that players will leave 1 month later after they realize they just bought another bad MMORPG only to drool at the announcement of yet another "next big MMORPG" few weeks later. 

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    Your daily dose of common sense since 2009!

  • Southpaw.GamerSouthpaw.Gamer Guelph, ONPosts: 572Member

    "Real" ES fans should be PISSED

     

    Enough said.

    Full Sail University - Game Design

  • Home15Home15 GentPosts: 203Member

    Im pissed.

    Stay away from mah Daggerfall, there pissing WoW cartoons over it the bastards D:

  • Quizar1973Quizar1973 Harold, KYPosts: 83Member

    If you are a true Fan of Anything...you wouldent put what your a Fan of down and ridicule it...As is Sports...If your team loses a game or even the championship would you say forget that team and never root for them again???  Any so called "Fan" of Elder Scrolls would stick by that game no matter what....Some of you people dont know what it is to be a Fan..And dont need to call yourself a fan of the Elder Scrolls...I on the other hand are a Fan of Elder Scrolls and will stay hopefull of the game no Matter what...Cause I am a Fan....

     

     

    Enough Said

  • Southpaw.GamerSouthpaw.Gamer Guelph, ONPosts: 572Member

    Originally posted by Quizar1973

    If you are a true Fan of Anything...you wouldent put what your a Fan of down and ridicule it...As is Sports...If your team loses a game or even the championship would you say forget that team and never root for them again???  Any so called "Fan" of Elder Scrolls would stick by that game no matter what....Some of you people dont know what it is to be a Fan..And dont need to call yourself a fan of the Elder Scrolls...I on the other hand are a Fan of Elder Scrolls and will stay hopefull of the game no Matter what...Cause I am a Fan....

     

     

    Enough Said

    You sir are not a fan, a real fan would stand by what makes what they are a fan of great.  Unique.  Using sports as an argument? Really?  This is nothing like what you described.  

     

    The developers tasked to create TES: Online have tossed out the window everything that makes TES... TES.  As a fan I feel no guilt for hating on something that isn't TES by design but rather only by name.  We were told to expect TES: Online.  Not reskinned ideas named TES: Online.

     

    I'll stick by the single player games and Bethesda.  However I hate Bethesda right now for allowing this to happen in the first place.

    Full Sail University - Game Design

  • udonudon Durham, NCPosts: 1,767Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Chrisbox

    After long thought I've really come to see the good in ESO.  Many fans of the genre are complaining because of how far away from the roots the game is going in terms of gameplay for this MMO, but I am not.  Now I was immediatly hooked on the series after morrowind so your probably thinking why am I praising this game right now?  Well atleast for me,  I have a clear enough vision to see that when bringing the Elder Scrolls to the MMO genre things had to be changed.  If they kept the same combat, and same size area's, or same skills in the MMO it just wouldn't work as an MMO and would fail.  But thats why we have the non MMO versions of the game correct?  I think as fans we should be excited to see that the series is progressing into a new genre and will in turn appeal to a larger audience.  Every release Elder scrolls is setting higher standards for the next release and now that it's entering the MMO space fans of the elder scrolls world, and fans of MMO's will be able to immerse themselves in the world from a different perspective of game. 

     

    How will copying what is other mmos into ESO give players a "different perspective of game"? Wouldn't it be better to overcome the challenges that bringing the TES world to MMO's pose rather than changing that world to conform to the standard? Conforming to a standard is not how TSE games got to where they are today and I don't see how it's going to help a ESO.
  • KhinRuniteKhinRunite ManilaPosts: 879Member

    TES combat that allows the player to pause the game to drink potions or switch spells surely does not work on a MMO setting, but the realtime FPS-like mechanics can work. There are MMOs out there with realtime combat. I do not know the details of TESO skill system, but yeah if they carried it over from say Oblivion then everyone will become virtual Gods who would cap every single feat, and be jumping high up in the sky. Also it's imbalanced for a MMO setting.

    I guess my only beef with the game are combat and graphics.

  • AmarantharAmaranthar OhioPosts: 2,430Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Uhwop

    Taking away freedom in a game is not a higher standard, it's the standard in MMO's today.

    Millions of people are familliar with the freedom you have in an ES game, and it's never been a negative aspect of the game.  The idea that it wouldn't be good for an MMO is nonsense and entirely speculative.  There is no quality, modern MMO out there that can be used to demonstrate that a UO style MMO won't appeal to a wider audience. 

    They do not need to go all out to maintan the same level of freedom available in an ES game.  Instanced housing, which is effectively what you get in the ES games, is more then feasable in an MMO today.  The ability to choose faction, without it being tide to the race you play, is doable if you don't write a storyline that forces you into a specific faction. 

    I shouldn't be required to play the adventuring type.  I should be able to improve skills that allow me to be a master swordsmith, and not just a warrior with weaponsmithing as a proffesion.  You can put restrictions on the way that the ES skill progression works without resorting to a strickly class based system.  Create paths that you choose to follow that won't allow you to gimp yourself.  If you want to be a master crafter it should be a skill progession option, with the obvious outcome being that you'll be really good at crafting stuff and not so great at killing stuff.  A simplified version of Anarchy onlines skill progression would be better then the standard you are whatever class you picked at character creation system that is used in just about every MMO.

    There is no balancing an MMO, and doing anything on the idea that you're attempting to achieve balance is wishful thinking. 

     

     

    Not everyone is going to have the same taste in what they consider to be fun gameplay.  In the end though, you're making an ES game, it should play like one.  If you enjoyed playing the ES games, then you would enjoy playing an MMO version of one; there is no reason to deviate from the same level of quality gameplay that has been provided to us in the past.

    This is why every ES fan shouldn't be happy with what it looks like ESO is going to be.  We should be demanding as much as we've gotten in the past, not settling for less.  

    Very well said. I just can't believe that this obvious way to make an MMORPG, especially this one, is so blatently ignored by this entire industry. And in the face of the very obvious likes and desires of game players, in the masses. There is something really wrong with this industry.

    Once upon a time....

  • MadnessRealmMadnessRealm Montreal, QCPosts: 2,716Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Bainwalker

    I'll stick by the single player games and Bethesda.  However I hate Bethesda right now for allowing this to happen in the first place.

    I wouldn't blame Bethesda Game Studio there. Because they are owned by Zenimax, Zenimax owns the IP so they can do whatever they want with it (sort of an example, but the Activision/Infinity Ward case is a good example). Zenimax decided to go for the quick cash grab, not BGS. As for BGS, and as I've said in my previous post, they are taking subtle steps to distance themselves from TESO/Zenimax Online Studios.

    ------
    Your daily dose of common sense since 2009!

  • DrakxiiDrakxii Waxahachie, TXPosts: 594Member

    Yeah when you convert a game from single player to an MMO you need to keep the core values not just paint an MMO with that lore.  

     

    That being said the park of me that like themeparks really REALLY wants them to rename it to ANYTHING else as it sounds like a great themepark.  There is alot of things to like about, such as comboing skills, secondary progression guild, hubless quest desgin, and 3 faction large scale pvp. It all sounds great but just not elder scrolls like.   

     

    To me it's like a great looking NY style pizza, but it's being sold at a great thai restaurant, something about it just seems... wrong.

    I will not play a game with a cash shop ever again. A dev job should be to make the game better not make me pay so it sucks less.

  • troublmakertroublmaker St. George''s, NFPosts: 337Member

    Originally posted by Chrisbox

    After long thought I've really come to see the good in ESO.  Many fans of the genre are complaining because of how far away from the roots the game is going in terms of gameplay for this MMO, but I am not.  Now I was immediatly hooked on the series after morrowind so your probably thinking why am I praising this game right now?  Well atleast for me,  I have a clear enough vision to see that when bringing the Elder Scrolls to the MMO genre things had to be changed.  If they kept the same combat, and same size area's, or same skills in the MMO it just wouldn't work as an MMO and would fail.  But thats why we have the non MMO versions of the game correct?  I think as fans we should be excited to see that the series is progressing into a new genre and will in turn appeal to a larger audience.  Every release Elder scrolls is setting higher standards for the next release and now that it's entering the MMO space fans of the elder scrolls world, and fans of MMO's will be able to immerse themselves in the world from a different perspective of game. 

    I half get what you are saying.  Imagine the reaction Warcraft 3 fans got when Blizzard said "imagine Warcraft where you only control one unit, it can level up and there is no longer a single strategist involved."  I'm sure people were losing their minds thinking it was stuipd.

    But Elder Scrolls going to MMO is not the same thing as Warcraft going to an MMO.

    Elder Scrolls is an RPG series.  It is converting to an MMORPG series.  That is not a big change.  It's like taking an RPG... and putting it online.

    The main point of contention is that it will attract a new audience, I don't see that.  An average MMO sells something like 300K copies in its first month.  A really good one will sell around 800k.  Exceptional ones are selling in the range of 1.5-1.6M.

    Skyrim in its first week sold an estimated 10M copies (7M of which were hard copies).  In their first month it eas expected they sold over 30M.  Skyrim stayed as the #1 best seller on the Steam platform for a total of five months.

    The MMORPG criteria will not attract a new audience to the franchise because it already has a hold on all of the people who would play an MMORPG.

    If anything they could scare away the mllions of people who bought Skyrim.  Elder Scrolls Online will use the dreaded Hero Engine and will have all the trimmings of a standard non-groundbreaking MMO.  No one will want that.

    Website: http://www.thegameguru.me / YouTube:

  • Quizar1973Quizar1973 Harold, KYPosts: 83Member

    Originally posted by Bainwalker

    Originally posted by Quizar1973

    If you are a true Fan of Anything...you wouldent put what your a Fan of down and ridicule it...As is Sports...If your team loses a game or even the championship would you say forget that team and never root for them again???  Any so called "Fan" of Elder Scrolls would stick by that game no matter what....Some of you people dont know what it is to be a Fan..And dont need to call yourself a fan of the Elder Scrolls...I on the other hand are a Fan of Elder Scrolls and will stay hopefull of the game no Matter what...Cause I am a Fan....

     

     

    Enough Said

    You sir are not a fan, a real fan would stand by what makes what they are a fan of great.  Unique.  Using sports as an argument? Really?  This is nothing like what you described.  

     

    The developers tasked to create TES: Online have tossed out the window everything that makes TES... TES.  As a fan I feel no guilt for hating on something that isn't TES by design but rather only by name.  We were told to expect TES: Online.  Not reskinned ideas named TES: Online.

     

    I'll stick by the single player games and Bethesda.  However I hate Bethesda right now for allowing this to happen in the first place.

     

    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

     

    Ok...You do realize the game isnt out yet right??  So what had Bethesda Allowed to happen???...Your giving up before the game is even played...You think thats being a Fan???  Now if the game comes out and people dont like it..Then Yes I see...But Downing Somthing (Even if it has the Elder Scroll name) before you even try to play it??  Im sorry..You are not a fan...

  • eyeswideopeneyeswideopen Fresno, CAPosts: 2,414Member

    The real TES fans are real happy...happy to let the casual fans play the mmo to fill Zenimax's coffers to keep giving us the REAL singleplayer TES games us REAL TES fans enjoy.

    -Letting Derek Smart work on your game is like letting Osama bin Laden work in the White House. Something will burn.-
    -And on the 8th day, man created God.-

  • Quizar1973Quizar1973 Harold, KYPosts: 83Member

    LOL...Yall are what is a one track Mind...you think somthing should stick to one road and never venture off to somwhere else...Thats Boring.....As a TRUE Fan...Ill follow Betheasda and Elder Scrolls Anywhere it wants to go...THAT A TRUE FAN...You think Dead Heads...TRUE Grateful Dead fans stopped following the band if they changed there style a little..HELLL NO..They followed that band through Fire and Brimstone..Slept on the STreets...Just to see a couple of hours of that band play there music....THATS a true Fan.   Jumping off the wagon becuase Bethesda and the Elder Scrolls change a little is NOT a TRUE FAN

  • TofkeTofke GeelPosts: 216Member Common

    Originally posted by Quizar1973

    LOL...Yall are what is a one track Mind...you think somthing should stick to one road and never venture off to somwhere else...Thats Boring.....As a TRUE Fan...Ill follow Betheasda and Elder Scrolls Anywhere it wants to go...THAT A TRUE FAN...You think Dead Heads...TRUE Grateful Dead fans stopped following the band if they changed there style a little..HELLL NO..They followed that band through Fire and Brimstone..Slept on the STreets...Just to see a couple of hours of that band play there music....THATS a true Fan.   Jumping off the wagon becuase Bethesda and the Elder Scrolls change a little is NOT a TRUE FAN

    A fan... Oh lord. And then they ask themselves why the industry is getting away with crap if people like that are around.

    "PLEASE SIR TAKE MY MONEY, JUST DO WHAT YOU WANT CUZ I BE FANZ!1!1!1!"

    Btw that example of grateful dead... I think most people here wouldn't mind a little change to fit the MMO genre, but what most people feel of this is... gratefull dead going Dj tiësto or Pitbull (Or whatever radical style change) style. Wonder how those fans would react ;)

    Anywho that being said, still doubting if you're serious or a troll. :p

  • NIIINIII Pikeville, KYPosts: 113Member

    I stopped reading OP's post when he said it wouldn't work as an mmo with the single player game's features. (note these are just features found in the single player game, they do not make it a single player game)

     

    I think I've touched on this topic before in a prior post, but here goes again;

     

    There is ALWAYS a way to make it work, and breaking it does not fix it. Just because you can't comprehend how it could work, that doesn't mean someone else can't. Usually saying there is no way is just an excuse for being too lazy to make a way for it to work happen. This is why we are stuck with the same features/model of mmos.

     

    Speaking about this game specifically, making it work would be as simple as having a better crime and punishment system, and a bit more time deving to increase player housing/city capacity.

    I don't know if people like you assume we just say it can work, give one example, and then be done with it, but that's not true. Anyone that has strong opinions on game transitions like this is a fan of the game--obviously--as they want to experience the game they have fallen in love with. We don't just state our opinion and then be done with it, we often talk to others with the same opinion about ways that they could make it work.

    However, I'd expect more often than not, these people do not post.

     

    I have talked for hours with various people about how this game could work, and the conclusion is pretty much along the lines of;

    More strict crime/punishment system, one that flags you when you attack/steal kill. The bounty will be harsh, so harsh that at some times you shouldn't be able to pay it. The alternative is an instanced jail cell where you sleep to pay for your crime, and lose stats, just like the other games of the series. No one in an mmo wants to lose stats, it puts them behind. Especially in a game like this.

    Larger cities to allow player housing. There should be more houses for players, more for npcs to give the feel of an active population in the game world. Think like, 20ish player houses per city, and with the amount of cities in TES games, this could work. "Oh, but then everyone won't have a house!"? Everyone SHOULDN'T have a house. Think a housing auction system or something. There could also be a sort of 'apartment' house per each town, to allow for cheap, shitty housing for the low levels.

    The next is kind of in depth, and elaborate;

    One of the big things that would limit thieves in this game would be inability to break into another player's house. Before I even make my statements on this, I will say that this could be allowed only on open pvp servers, as I would imagine they would break the game up into open pvp servers and no pvp/flag pvp servers. Essentially, locks should be an upgrade you can purchase for your house, and the highest level lock should still be hard for the person with the best lockpicking to open. These should be expensive though, so you aren't always perfectly safe. Added onto that, I think it would be a nice feature to be able to hire a mercenary to guard your house. Not only does he attack who comes in if spotted, but he also tells the guards and the invading player gains a high bounty. These guards should also be tiered, and more expensive the better they are. An alternative we touched on when talking about this was the ability to use an alt character as a guard for your house, sacrificing exp/skill bonuses for being well rested.

     

    As for the combat; anyone that says real time combat with a crosshair will not work with an rpg, obviously is just afraid of change. Even then it's retarded, as it has been done before. They could leave the combat exactly as it is, and I would be completely okay with it, all things considered. Who gives a shit if ranged attacks are overpowered? The game isn't about balance. The real world isn't balanced, why should a virtual one be? If you think someone is so entirely op, maybe you should think of a way to be MORE op. Remember; this combat system isn't based on percentages and gear.

     

    Sorry for wall of text, but I just had to. I hope some people actually read it.

  • QuesaQuesa Sacramento, CAPosts: 1,246Member

    Awful arrogant of the OP to suggest that you're not a real ES fan if you don't like the game.

  • Quizar1973Quizar1973 Harold, KYPosts: 83Member

    Originally posted by tofke

    Originally posted by Quizar1973

    LOL...Yall are what is a one track Mind...you think somthing should stick to one road and never venture off to somwhere else...Thats Boring.....As a TRUE Fan...Ill follow Betheasda and Elder Scrolls Anywhere it wants to go...THAT A TRUE FAN...You think Dead Heads...TRUE Grateful Dead fans stopped following the band if they changed there style a little..HELLL NO..They followed that band through Fire and Brimstone..Slept on the STreets...Just to see a couple of hours of that band play there music....THATS a true Fan.   Jumping off the wagon becuase Bethesda and the Elder Scrolls change a little is NOT a TRUE FAN

    A fan... Oh lord. And then they ask themselves why the industry is getting away with crap if people like that are around.

    "PLEASE SIR TAKE MY MONEY, JUST DO WHAT YOU WANT CUZ I BE FANZ!1!1!1!"

    Btw that example of grateful dead... I think most people here wouldn't mind a little change to fit the MMO genre, but what most people feel of this is... gratefull dead going Dj tiësto or Pitbull (Or whatever radical style change) style. Wonder how those fans would react ;)

    Anywho that being said, still doubting if you're serious or a troll. :p

    Well..If Defending a Game weather it be an MMO or Single Player game  that I have played for years is a Troll..Then So be it.....Im sorry...But it dosent take much for people to jump off and Quit ya know...Some people Jump before they even Experiance what there on the wagon for in the First place...So there comin out with an MMO..And theres things in there that wasnt on the Single player game...Ok...Tell me a game that was as Deep as Elder Scrolls in the Single Player Version that was put in a MMO with Nothing at all changed...Gameplay included, Combat wasnt changed, All the Lore and enviorment was left in it....Was there ever one??? I will play or at least try out any Game Bethesda and the Elder Scroll games came out with...Im not arguing that it could be a bad game...Hell yea it could be...But im not gonna Judge a game that I have played for years without trying it out first...Im arguing over the fact that people call themselves Fans and Downing the Game and Developer that there suppose to be a fan of....

     

  • Quizar1973Quizar1973 Harold, KYPosts: 83Member

    Originally posted by NIII

    I stopped reading OP's post when he said it wouldn't work as an mmo with the single player game's features. (note these are just features found in the single player game, they do not make it a single player game)

     

    I think I've touched on this topic before in a prior post, but here goes again;

     

    There is ALWAYS a way to make it work, and breaking it does not fix it. Just because you can't comprehend how it could work, that doesn't mean someone else can't. Usually saying there is no way is just an excuse for being too lazy to make a way for it to work happen. This is why we are stuck with the same features/model of mmos.

     

    Speaking about this game specifically, making it work would be as simple as having a better crime and punishment system, and a bit more time deving to increase player housing/city capacity.

    I don't know if people like you assume we just say it can work, give one example, and then be done with it, but that's not true. Anyone that has strong opinions on game transitions like this is a fan of the game--obviously--as they want to experience the game they have fallen in love with. We don't just state our opinion and then be done with it, we often talk to others with the same opinion about ways that they could make it work.

    However, I'd expect more often than not, these people do not post.

     

    I have talked for hours with various people about how this game could work, and the conclusion is pretty much along the lines of;

    More strict crime/punishment system, one that flags you when you attack/steal kill. The bounty will be harsh, so harsh that at some times you shouldn't be able to pay it. The alternative is an instanced jail cell where you sleep to pay for your crime, and lose stats, just like the other games of the series. No one in an mmo wants to lose stats, it puts them behind. Especially in a game like this.

    Larger cities to allow player housing. There should be more houses for players, more for npcs to give the feel of an active population in the game world. Think like, 20ish player houses per city, and with the amount of cities in TES games, this could work. "Oh, but then everyone won't have a house!"? Everyone SHOULDN'T have a house. Think a housing auction system or something. There could also be a sort of 'apartment' house per each town, to allow for cheap, shitty housing for the low levels.

    The next is kind of in depth, and elaborate;

    One of the big things that would limit thieves in this game would be inability to break into another player's house. Before I even make my statements on this, I will say that this could be allowed only on open pvp servers, as I would imagine they would break the game up into open pvp servers and no pvp/flag pvp servers. Essentially, locks should be an upgrade you can purchase for your house, and the highest level lock should still be hard for the person with the best lockpicking to open. These should be expensive though, so you aren't always perfectly safe. Added onto that, I think it would be a nice feature to be able to hire a mercenary to guard your house. Not only does he attack who comes in if spotted, but he also tells the guards and the invading player gains a high bounty. These guards should also be tiered, and more expensive the better they are. An alternative we touched on when talking about this was the ability to use an alt character as a guard for your house, sacrificing exp/skill bonuses for being well rested.

     

    As for the combat; anyone that says real time combat with a crosshair will not work with an rpg, obviously is just afraid of change. Even then it's retarded, as it has been done before. They could leave the combat exactly as it is, and I would be completely okay with it, all things considered. Who gives a shit if ranged attacks are overpowered? The game isn't about balance. The real world isn't balanced, why should a virtual one be? If you think someone is so entirely op, maybe you should think of a way to be MORE op. Remember; this combat system isn't based on percentages and gear.

     

    Sorry for wall of text, but I just had to. I hope some people actually read it.

    Ok...You do bring up some good points...But you might as well say you want a Single Player Elder Scrolls Game with Multiplayer capabilities...Not an MMO...

    And it would be very complicated situation with the Breaking into House thing...You would have theives macroing day in and Day out to get there skills to the highest level just to break into other peoples houses...You think that would be a good thing??  Well you would if your one of the Thieves...lol...Hell I could play the game one night..Go to Work the next Morning and all the stuff that took a hell of alot of time to get was gone...All gone, and I was at work and couldent do nothin about it...LOL...To me that wouldent be fun...And I love PvP so i would have to be on a PvP server...Looting a dead body in PvP...yes i agree..But stealing there things while there not even there...No...I would hate that

    Its alot easyer to make a Single Player game with Multiplayer functions than it is to make an MMO where thousands of people play at that same time...

  • NIIINIII Pikeville, KYPosts: 113Member

    Originally posted by Quizar1973

    Originally posted by NIII

    snip

    Ok...You do bring up some good points...But you might as well say you want a Single Player Elder Scrolls Game with Multiplayer capabilities...Not an MMO...

    And it would be very complicated situation with the Breaking into House thing...You would have theives macroing day in and Day out to get there skills to the highest level just to break into other peoples houses...You think that would be a good thing??  Well you would if your one of the Thieves...lol...Hell I could play the game one night..Go to Work the next Morning and all the stuff that took a hell of alot of time to get was gone...All gone, and I was at work and couldent do nothin about it...LOL...To me that wouldent be fun...And I love PvP so i would have to be on a PvP server...Looting a dead body in PvP...yes i agree..But stealing there things while there not even there...No...I would hate that

    Its alot easyer to make a Single Player game with Multiplayer functions than it is to make an MMO where thousands of people play at that same time...

    Just because you don't like it, doesn't mean the game should be changed to suit you. I don't want a single player game, I don't want a generic mmo. I want TES Online. If you gut the game, take out all of the innards, it isn't that anymore. It's a new game with a TES setting.

    You SHOULD be afraid of losing all of your shit. The thieves SHOULD be afraid and have a hard time doing what they do. They are after all, commiting a crime, a large one at that. You think they aren't risking anything?

    Don't take my text for only what it is, think of it with a more broad mindset. I'm not just stating ways it could work, I'm saying that it is possible to think of a way to make it work.

    We could sit in this thread and debate back and forth on how to make what I said work, but that isn't the point.

    In short, you're kind of missing the entire point.

     

    --Edit--

    And also; a single player game with multiplayer capabilities IS a multiplayer game, because it is playable by multiple people.

  • Quizar1973Quizar1973 Harold, KYPosts: 83Member

    Originally posted by NIII

    Originally posted by Quizar1973


    Originally posted by NIII

    snip

    Ok...You do bring up some good points...But you might as well say you want a Single Player Elder Scrolls Game with Multiplayer capabilities...Not an MMO...

    And it would be very complicated situation with the Breaking into House thing...You would have theives macroing day in and Day out to get there skills to the highest level just to break into other peoples houses...You think that would be a good thing??  Well you would if your one of the Thieves...lol...Hell I could play the game one night..Go to Work the next Morning and all the stuff that took a hell of alot of time to get was gone...All gone, and I was at work and couldent do nothin about it...LOL...To me that wouldent be fun...And I love PvP so i would have to be on a PvP server...Looting a dead body in PvP...yes i agree..But stealing there things while there not even there...No...I would hate that

    Its alot easyer to make a Single Player game with Multiplayer functions than it is to make an MMO where thousands of people play at that same time...

    Just because you don't like it, doesn't mean the game should be changed to suit you. I don't want a single player game, I don't want a generic mmo. I want TES Online. If you gut the game, take out all of the innards, it isn't that anymore. It's a new game with a TES setting.

    You SHOULD be afraid of losing all of your shit. The thieves SHOULD be afraid and have a hard time doing what they do. They are after all, commiting a crime, a large one at that. You think they aren't risking anything?

    Don't take my text for only what it is, think of it with a more broad mindset. I'm not just stating ways it could work, I'm saying that it is possible to think of a way to make it work.

    We could sit in this thread and debate back and forth on how to make what I said work, but that isn't the point.

    In short, you're kind of missing the entire point.

     

    --Edit--

    And also; a single player game with multiplayer capabilities IS a multiplayer game, because it is playable by multiple people.

    But its not an MMO....Its a Multiplayer Game...I dont consider Call Of Duty..Or Battlefield an MMO...And as i said in a previouse Post..Im not Arguing wither its gonna be a Bad game..I cant predict the future and no one else can either...Yall might be saying that its nothin like TES and about a year down the road everything changes...No One knows whats gonna happen..I always say...Dont beilive nothing you hear or read and only half of what you see...Im still gonna have high hopes for this game...Cause I love TES...I already have the Singleplayer Game..I wanna try somthing New....Yes I wanna see more Single Player games come out in the future...But I also wanna see what they can do that's not in the Norm of TES

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