The amount of logical fail in this thread is ridiculous. Instead of addressing the point about the quest system forcing the player to spend otherwise unnecessary time tracking down quest givers (including objects and corpses) because of the quest limit -- akin, in my opinion, to TOR artificially prolonging the time the player has to spend engaging in activities that aren't fun such as making them run through giant space ports and sit through loading screens -- we've resorted to suggesting people are actually mental midgets for disliking one particular aspect of our beloved game's quest system that has nothing to do with what a given quest might actually ask the player to do.
It's VERY possibe to enjoy the quest activities, the difficulty, the tiered system, the phoned turn-in, and dislike encountering situations where you find quests in out of the way locations but are unable to pick them up without dropping another quest you might actively be on. These are not mutually exclusive concepts no matter how hard you people try to make them out to be.
Disliking the latter point does not make you too stupid to do the quests to the point that you need your hand held for everything and markers everywhere telling you where to go and what to do. In fact, it doesn't say ANYTHING at all about wanting to be told where quests are or where they can be completetd. I, for one, rarely use my map and prefer old-school questing where no cues at all show up, where you actually have to read quest descriptions to figure out where to go. I also prefer that if I find a corpse in a canyon 15 minutes out from the principle questing areas that I can pick up the quest without forcing myself to drop or halt another one that might even take place in the same area as the quest I'm picking up. That is it, period. I'm not complaining about any other aspect of the quest system, and most people who have expressed their disapproval aren't either.
So stop putting words in people's mouths to defend your game from opinions that are not even related to what you've decided to attack. That's exactly the type of behavior that makes people who just want to enjoy the game and share how they think it could be improved to end up rooting for your game to fail.
Furthermore, quest logs that hold 40, 50, 50000 quests? Where are these games? I've never played one. Every MMO that I've played had no more than a 30 quest limiit when I played them, of which some of these are dailies, instance, and interzone quests that admittedly don't apply very well to TSW's system. However, that still leaves room for 10-15 active quests, including some slots to pick up a quest if one is found in an obscure location. In reality at most five of them actually include quests in the same general vicinity, and by the time you're done with them you're heading back to turn them in because your inventory is full. So no, it's not like you people have described, and if you've played a lot of MMOs you'd know it. The advantage those systems had that is applicable to TSW is that if one found a quest on the way to a quest destination he or she could pick it up without having to sacrficie a quest that one might have set out to do, or without having to track down that quest giver later after the flow of the game had taken them to other areas.
At the end of the day is it some great offense to nature that TSW has a low quest limit?
Of course not.
It hasn't stopped me from playing it this weekend and by and large enjoying the experience.
But it could be MORE FUN for me if they allowed me to pick up some of these quests I encounter without having to drop/postpone others. That's the entire point of having a discussion about the merits of a game...what could make it more fun for you? Furthermore, in a competitive MMO market where players being forced to do things that are not fun to them by the game's structure or mechanics can be a deal-breaker, TSW's low quest limit, given how they've chosen to scatter quest givers and quest-giving objects around the game world, has the potential to be at least some factor in turning off potential fans from the game.
To the guy suggesting that the system almost always worked out perfectly with one quest being completed and phoned in in the area where another can be picked up...I've played the game pretty much all weekend too. The multitiered quests mean that you may cover a large amount of ground before a single quest is finished (I happen to like the multitiered approach, it effectively adds more quests without requriing the running back and forth to the same quest giver that another game might make you do). If you're fully completing a quest and able to phone it in even half the time you encounter a new quest out in the world, you are straight up the luckiest person to ever play an MMO.
And to the guy suggesting he loved the quest limit so much that from now on in every MMO he'd only accept and do one quest at a time regardless of being able to pick up quests for the same area...if there's a god of games, I hope he holds you to that when he decides what MMO you get to play in the afterlife.
Anyway, if TSW is really a game for the intellectual crowd, I challenge its fans to prove it by the way they conduct themselves around people who have opinions about the game they don't share, instead of resorting to logical fallacies and calling people names. Raise the level of discourse about your game instead of following in the footsteps of the loathesome fans of other games.
Incoming responses:
(1) Someone suggesting the real problem is I'm too stupid to figure out TSW's quests like half the other posts in this thread without addressing any of the points herein
(2) Someone asking "TLDR. If you hate the game so much, why are you still here?" and calling me a troll or hater.
The amount of logical fail in this thread is ridiculous. Instead of addressing the point about the quest system forcing the player to spend otherwise unnecessary time tracking down quest givers (including objects and corpses) because of the quest limit -- akin, in my opinion, to TOR artificially prolonging the time the player has to spend engaging in activities that aren't fun such as making them run through giant space ports and sit through loading screens -- we've resorted to suggesting people are actually mental midgets for disliking one particular aspect of our beloved game's quest system that has nothing to do with what a given quest might actually ask the player to do.
It's VERY possibe to enjoy the quest activities, the difficulty, the tiered system, the phoned turn-in, and dislike encountering situations where you find quests in out of the way locations but are unable to pick them up without dropping another quest you might actively be on. These are not mutually exclusive concepts no matter how hard you people try to make them out to be.
Disliking the latter point does not make you too stupid to do the quests to the point that you need your hand held for everything and markers everywhere telling you where to go and what to do. In fact, it doesn't say ANYTHING at all about wanting to be told where quests are or where they can be completetd. I, for one, rarely use my map and prefer old-school questing where no cues at all show up, where you actually have to read quest descriptions to figure out where to go. I also prefer that if I find a corpse in a canyon 15 minutes out from the principle questing areas that I can pick up the quest without forcing myself to drop or halt another one that might even take place in the same area as the quest I'm picking up. That is it, period. I'm not complaining about any other aspect of the quest system, and most people who have expressed their disapproval aren't either.
So stop putting words in people's mouths to defend your game from opinions that are not even related to what you've decided to attack. That's exactly the type of behavior that makes people who just want to enjoy the game and share how they think it could be improved to end up rooting for your game to fail.
Furthermore, quest logs that hold 40, 50, 50000 quests? Where are these games? I've never played one. Every MMO that I've played had no more than a 30 quest limiit when I played them, of which some of these are dailies, instance, and interzone quests that admittedly don't apply very well to TSW's system. However, that still leaves room for 10-15 active quests, including some slots to pick up a quest if one is found in an obscure location. In reality at most five of them actually include quests in the same general vicinity, and by the time you're done with them you're heading back to turn them in because your inventory is full. So no, it's not like you people have described, and if you've played a lot of MMOs you'd know it. The advantage those systems had that is applicable to TSW is that if one found a quest on the way to a quest destination he or she could pick it up without having to sacrficie a quest that one might have set out to do, or without having to track down that quest giver later after the flow of the game had taken them to other areas.
At the end of the day is it some great offense to nature that TSW has a low quest limit?
Of course not.
It hasn't stopped me from playing it this weekend and by and large enjoying the experience.
But it could be MORE FUN for me if they allowed me to pick up some of these quests I encounter without having to drop/postpone others. That's the entire point of having a discussion about the merits of a game...what could make it more fun for you? Furthermore, in a competitive MMO market where players being forced to do things that are not fun to them by the game's structure or mechanics can be a deal-breaker, TSW's low quest limit, given how they've chosen to scatter quest givers and quest-giving objects around the game world, has the potential to be at least some factor in turning off potential fans from the game.
To the guy suggesting that the system almost always worked out perfectly with one quest being completed and phoned in in the area where another can be picked up...I've played the game pretty much all weekend too. The multitiered quests mean that you may cover a large amount of ground before a single quest is finished (I happen to like the multitiered approach, it effectively adds more quests without requriing the running back and forth to the same quest giver that another game might make you do). If you're fully completing a quest and able to phone it in even half the time you encounter a new quest out in the world, you are straight up the luckiest person to ever play an MMO.
And to the guy suggesting he loved the quest limit so much that from now on in every MMO he'd only accept and do one quest at a time regardless of being able to pick up quests for the same area...if there's a god of games, I hope he holds you to that when he decides what MMO you get to play in the afterlife.
Anyway, if TSW is really a game for the intellectual crowd, I challenge its fans to prove it by the way they conduct themselves around people who have opinions about the game they don't share, instead of resorting to logical fallacies and calling people names. Raise the level of discourse about your game instead of following in the footsteps of the loathesome fans of other games.
Incoming responses:
(1) Someone suggesting the real problem is I'm too stupid to figure out TSW's quests like half the other posts in this thread without addressing any of the points herein
(2) Someone asking "TLDR. If you hate the game so much, why are you still here?" and calling me a troll or hater.
EDIT: spelling
Sadly, i think that there are indeed people who are hating on this game to hate on it. But most of the people, like this poster, saw the same cool things other people saw, we just see the crap around it.
I stand gby what i said wearlier, this game is not ready. It has all the same failings as SWTOR. People say, they'e been playing for 8 hours. How much of that was
1. running back to your corpose
2 running from city to city
3. running 5 to 10 minutes from one quest hub to the next and back and agian.
I never felt like I was running back and forth too much. Most of the time, you could complete a quest chain remotely. You'd also find quests along the way that you could mark on your map (this seems to be some sort of impossible barrier for some folks) and come back later. Or you could pause a quest and start another task that was in the immediate area.
All in all, it made me much more focused on the actual game world instead of a shopping list and minimap. I like the fact that there are visual cues for most of the quests and the quest chains were more about puzzle solving. You killed mobs because they jumped your ass along the way. Or a named mob had an item you needed.
I can see how someone would be frustrated when they are trying to play as efficiently as possible. But in a game with no levels, whats the point? And how more many times are you going to replay that area with an alt? At most, twice if you want to roll a character for each faction.
I sit on a man's back, choking him and making him carry me, and yet assure myself and others that I am very sorry for him and wish to ease his lot by all possible means - except by getting off his back.
I found myself just taking one quest at a time so that I could take my time and explore I loved the quest system and style, definetly looking forward to launch.
you can only have three active quests...you spend so much time running back and forth that even kingsmouth thats supposedly smallest questing zone in game feels HUGE and tedious.
Yes I would expect the "power leveles to end now I have nothing to do crowd" might have a problem with this.
I wish my time wasn't as precious. I love exploration, but drab house i can't enter after drab house i can't enter... tree after beautiful... 64 bit looking tree.. poorly drawn car after poorly drawn car. Zombies with color swap shirts. To each its own. Exploration should reveal something new and exciting and be worth it. Corpse runs are so archaic. 5 minutes out of my life because i died. just take my money or something, make me restart the quest or fight, at least i'm doing fun things while i "come back".
I don't want to hear "well when i was young we corpse ran uphill in snow and back" speech.
Just figured out something else that's missing. As I attempt to figure out where a quest piece is, it dawns on me.
In role playing and rpg games, when u need help or at least an idea of if you're sniffing the right dog, u are presumed to be asking every npc about this item (or have an option for it in later games). In this game, I have been wandering about for 30 minutes not knowing if i'm in the right spot or what.
Also, skills. Skills to improve investigating. As I look for this thing i think, wow, wish this game had a detective mode like on batman. Take half of the class trees, i mean weapons away and and add some functionality to investigative skills.
Comments
The amount of logical fail in this thread is ridiculous. Instead of addressing the point about the quest system forcing the player to spend otherwise unnecessary time tracking down quest givers (including objects and corpses) because of the quest limit -- akin, in my opinion, to TOR artificially prolonging the time the player has to spend engaging in activities that aren't fun such as making them run through giant space ports and sit through loading screens -- we've resorted to suggesting people are actually mental midgets for disliking one particular aspect of our beloved game's quest system that has nothing to do with what a given quest might actually ask the player to do.
It's VERY possibe to enjoy the quest activities, the difficulty, the tiered system, the phoned turn-in, and dislike encountering situations where you find quests in out of the way locations but are unable to pick them up without dropping another quest you might actively be on. These are not mutually exclusive concepts no matter how hard you people try to make them out to be.
Disliking the latter point does not make you too stupid to do the quests to the point that you need your hand held for everything and markers everywhere telling you where to go and what to do. In fact, it doesn't say ANYTHING at all about wanting to be told where quests are or where they can be completetd. I, for one, rarely use my map and prefer old-school questing where no cues at all show up, where you actually have to read quest descriptions to figure out where to go. I also prefer that if I find a corpse in a canyon 15 minutes out from the principle questing areas that I can pick up the quest without forcing myself to drop or halt another one that might even take place in the same area as the quest I'm picking up. That is it, period. I'm not complaining about any other aspect of the quest system, and most people who have expressed their disapproval aren't either.
So stop putting words in people's mouths to defend your game from opinions that are not even related to what you've decided to attack. That's exactly the type of behavior that makes people who just want to enjoy the game and share how they think it could be improved to end up rooting for your game to fail.
Furthermore, quest logs that hold 40, 50, 50000 quests? Where are these games? I've never played one. Every MMO that I've played had no more than a 30 quest limiit when I played them, of which some of these are dailies, instance, and interzone quests that admittedly don't apply very well to TSW's system. However, that still leaves room for 10-15 active quests, including some slots to pick up a quest if one is found in an obscure location. In reality at most five of them actually include quests in the same general vicinity, and by the time you're done with them you're heading back to turn them in because your inventory is full. So no, it's not like you people have described, and if you've played a lot of MMOs you'd know it. The advantage those systems had that is applicable to TSW is that if one found a quest on the way to a quest destination he or she could pick it up without having to sacrficie a quest that one might have set out to do, or without having to track down that quest giver later after the flow of the game had taken them to other areas.
At the end of the day is it some great offense to nature that TSW has a low quest limit?
Of course not.
It hasn't stopped me from playing it this weekend and by and large enjoying the experience.
But it could be MORE FUN for me if they allowed me to pick up some of these quests I encounter without having to drop/postpone others. That's the entire point of having a discussion about the merits of a game...what could make it more fun for you? Furthermore, in a competitive MMO market where players being forced to do things that are not fun to them by the game's structure or mechanics can be a deal-breaker, TSW's low quest limit, given how they've chosen to scatter quest givers and quest-giving objects around the game world, has the potential to be at least some factor in turning off potential fans from the game.
To the guy suggesting that the system almost always worked out perfectly with one quest being completed and phoned in in the area where another can be picked up...I've played the game pretty much all weekend too. The multitiered quests mean that you may cover a large amount of ground before a single quest is finished (I happen to like the multitiered approach, it effectively adds more quests without requriing the running back and forth to the same quest giver that another game might make you do). If you're fully completing a quest and able to phone it in even half the time you encounter a new quest out in the world, you are straight up the luckiest person to ever play an MMO.
And to the guy suggesting he loved the quest limit so much that from now on in every MMO he'd only accept and do one quest at a time regardless of being able to pick up quests for the same area...if there's a god of games, I hope he holds you to that when he decides what MMO you get to play in the afterlife.
Anyway, if TSW is really a game for the intellectual crowd, I challenge its fans to prove it by the way they conduct themselves around people who have opinions about the game they don't share, instead of resorting to logical fallacies and calling people names. Raise the level of discourse about your game instead of following in the footsteps of the loathesome fans of other games.
Incoming responses:
(1) Someone suggesting the real problem is I'm too stupid to figure out TSW's quests like half the other posts in this thread without addressing any of the points herein
(2) Someone asking "TLDR. If you hate the game so much, why are you still here?" and calling me a troll or hater.
EDIT: spelling
Sadly, i think that there are indeed people who are hating on this game to hate on it. But most of the people, like this poster, saw the same cool things other people saw, we just see the crap around it.
I stand gby what i said wearlier, this game is not ready. It has all the same failings as SWTOR. People say, they'e been playing for 8 hours. How much of that was
1. running back to your corpose
2 running from city to city
3. running 5 to 10 minutes from one quest hub to the next and back and agian.
I never felt like I was running back and forth too much. Most of the time, you could complete a quest chain remotely. You'd also find quests along the way that you could mark on your map (this seems to be some sort of impossible barrier for some folks) and come back later. Or you could pause a quest and start another task that was in the immediate area.
All in all, it made me much more focused on the actual game world instead of a shopping list and minimap. I like the fact that there are visual cues for most of the quests and the quest chains were more about puzzle solving. You killed mobs because they jumped your ass along the way. Or a named mob had an item you needed.
I can see how someone would be frustrated when they are trying to play as efficiently as possible. But in a game with no levels, whats the point? And how more many times are you going to replay that area with an alt? At most, twice if you want to roll a character for each faction.
I sit on a man's back, choking him and making him carry me, and yet assure myself and others that I am very sorry for him and wish to ease his lot by all possible means - except by getting off his back.
I found myself just taking one quest at a time so that I could take my time and explore I loved the quest system and style, definetly looking forward to launch.
Yes I would expect the "power leveles to end now I have nothing to do crowd" might have a problem with this.
I wish my time wasn't as precious. I love exploration, but drab house i can't enter after drab house i can't enter... tree after beautiful... 64 bit looking tree.. poorly drawn car after poorly drawn car. Zombies with color swap shirts. To each its own. Exploration should reveal something new and exciting and be worth it. Corpse runs are so archaic. 5 minutes out of my life because i died. just take my money or something, make me restart the quest or fight, at least i'm doing fun things while i "come back".
I don't want to hear "well when i was young we corpse ran uphill in snow and back" speech.
Just figured out something else that's missing. As I attempt to figure out where a quest piece is, it dawns on me.
In role playing and rpg games, when u need help or at least an idea of if you're sniffing the right dog, u are presumed to be asking every npc about this item (or have an option for it in later games). In this game, I have been wandering about for 30 minutes not knowing if i'm in the right spot or what.
Also, skills. Skills to improve investigating. As I look for this thing i think, wow, wish this game had a detective mode like on batman. Take half of the class trees, i mean weapons away and and add some functionality to investigative skills.