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Bad media reactions

ElikalElikal ValhallaPosts: 7,906Member Uncommon

To quote from Gamespy: "You only get one first impression, and I'm sad to say that from where I'm sitting, The Elder Scrolls Online has blown it."

 

Gamespy: Our first glimpse of the online counterpart to Skyrim doesn't impress.

http://pc.gamespy.com/pc/elder-scrolls-online/1224380p1.html

 

Forbes: Do we need an Elder Scrolls MMO?

http://www.forbes.com/sites/davidthier/2012/05/07/do-we-need-an-elder-scrolls-mmo/

 

PIKI Geek: Not sure if want

http://geek.pikimal.com/2012/05/06/the-elder-scrolls-online-not-sure-if-want/

"For me, the Elder Scrolls games have always been individual journeys, where each game’s world needs to be discovered and explored by an individual, not a large group. Part of the beauty of these games was the fact that so many different gamers could have such vastly unique experiences and tales within the same game. These games were all about fully immersing the player in a foreign world; putting them in the shoes of some lone hero, who wanders the land and gets into grand adventures. Bethesda has in the past crafted marvelous sandboxes for a single player. It may sound selfish, but Tamriel is a playplace that shouldn’t be shared."  (AMEN!)

 

God, those screenshots look SO like sterile SWTOR... blegh.

*Hand wave @Zenimax* You want to scrap development and rethink your design philosophy.

People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert

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Comments

  • gaeanprayergaeanprayer Somewhere Out There, PAPosts: 2,320Member Uncommon

    Wow that screenshot is particularly bad, it really does look like WoW with better lighting. But I have seen nicer screenshots, though, particularly on the Game Informer debut. "Trepidation" is putting it nicely, but I'm still going to wait until next year to make a firm decision on this.

    "Forums aren't for intelligent discussion; they're for blow-hards with unwavering opinions."

  • ElikalElikal ValhallaPosts: 7,906Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by gaeanprayer

    Wow that screenshot is particularly bad, it really does look like WoW with better lighting. But I have seen nicer screenshots, though, particularly on the Game Informer debut. "Trepidation" is putting it nicely, but I'm still going to wait until next year to make a firm decision on this.

    I want to give it the benefit of doubt.

    But truth is, SWTOR just burned me. I saw all the screenshots and videos on leak sites about SWTOR, I saw it on the Gamescon in Cologne, I heard the PR blah blah, and I just had a very bad feeling about SWTOR in the 2 years before it's release. But every time my "good voice" said, wait, it's beta, it's going to improve, it won't look that bad asf. But in the end, it was as bad as it looked one year prior to release. Games just don't change that dramatic anymore. That is, IMPVO, an illusion.

    And that new video interview with the creative director confirmed my worst fears, that TESO will have NOTHING that made Elder Scrolls great fun. An Elder Scrolls Online game would have had THE big chance to redefine the genre, to make a difference and NOT to make the next WOW clone! This is just so disheartning on so many levels. But thank goodness finally the mass public has enough of it as well, it seems.

    People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert

  • gladosrev2gladosrev2 BialystokPosts: 203Member

    It not only looks sterile, it looks generic to the bone. There is nothing in those screenshots that catches my eye or evokes any sense of interest. SWTOR had similar though less obivous design problems - at least they had lightsabres to make sure you are reminded what game you're playing. But it did not have the SW feel, and TESO doesn't feel like TES at all. It looks and feels like those food rations the astronauts used to eat. All nutrients, no flavour.

    My Guild Wars 2 First Beta Weekend "reviewette" : http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/post/4944570/thread/349125#4944570

  • SEANMCADSEANMCAD Houston, TXPosts: 5,348Member

    I dont agree with the premise that TES being a single player game in of itself (not with regards to technical related to that) is anywhere near a main pillar of TES.

    The pillars for me are

    exploration

    not quest dependent

    create (not choose) your own path (there is a huge difference)

    skill based

    large world

    first person view

     

    having others to band with doesnt kill that for me.

     

    Correlation does not imply causation

  • SoulOfRazielSoulOfRaziel Porto FerreiraPosts: 405Member Uncommon

    I think the gameplay will be one of the weak point of TESO and for me gameplay is really important =/

    image

  • ProfRedProfRed Duluth, GAPosts: 3,511Member

    How out of touch are devs these days?  How do they not see what is going on with the genre?  How could they make these choices with a Elder Scrolls title?  This is just mind blowing.  I feel like Ashton Cutcher is going to jump out of my computer screen and tell me I just got punk'd.

  • erictlewiserictlewis Cottondale, ALPosts: 3,026Member Uncommon

    Wow,  I mean those screen shots  look like they come from vanilla wow back in the day. that looks nothing like the elder scrolls I ever played.   Sorry but if that is the way the game really looks then it don't stand a chance in hades.

     

  • SEANMCADSEANMCAD Houston, TXPosts: 5,348Member

    Originally posted by ProfRed

    How out of touch are devs these days?  How do they not see what is going on with the genre?  How could they make these choices with a Elder Scrolls title?  This is just mind blowing.  I feel like Ashton Cutcher is going to jump out of my computer screen and tell me I just got punk'd.

    giving them credit for having a measurable IQ its not uncommon for me to imagine some kind of wild conspiracy   lik  

    Correlation does not imply causation

  • MMOarQQMMOarQQ BoogalululuPosts: 636Member

    Yes, yes... keep throwing that slop into the troughs dear gaming companies, it seems the pigs are still famished for it.

  • AdamTMAdamTM Frankfurt Am MainPosts: 1,376Member

    Originally posted by SEANMCAD

    Originally posted by ProfRed

    How out of touch are devs these days?  How do they not see what is going on with the genre?  How could they make these choices with a Elder Scrolls title?  This is just mind blowing.  I feel like Ashton Cutcher is going to jump out of my computer screen and tell me I just got punk'd.

    giving them credit for having a measurable IQ its not uncommon for me to imagine some kind of wild conspiracy   lik  

    I think what developers of MMOs need to learn is to not have a 5-7 year development cycle without foresight.

    I'm sure the design document for TESO as drafted in 2005/2007 made perfect sense and would have even been acceptable at the time.

    In 2012, not so much.

    image
  • SEANMCADSEANMCAD Houston, TXPosts: 5,348Member

    Originally posted by AdamTM

    Originally posted by SEANMCAD

    Originally posted by ProfRed

    How out of touch are devs these days?  How do they not see what is going on with the genre?  How could they make these choices with a Elder Scrolls title?  This is just mind blowing.  I feel like Ashton Cutcher is going to jump out of my computer screen and tell me I just got punk'd.

    giving them credit for having a measurable IQ its not uncommon for me to imagine some kind of wild conspiracy   lik  

    I think what developers of MMOs need to learn is to not have a 5-7 year development cycle without foresight.

    I'm sure the design document for TESO as drafted in 2005/2007 made perfect sense and would have even been acceptable at the time.

    In 2012, not so much.

    In the context of TES Online specifically I dont agree but I do see your point with the 'what is going on with the genre' statement

    Correlation does not imply causation

  • VocadiVocadi SH, MIPosts: 205Member

    Originally posted by AdamTM

    Originally posted by SEANMCAD


    Originally posted by ProfRed

    How out of touch are devs these days?  How do they not see what is going on with the genre?  How could they make these choices with a Elder Scrolls title?  This is just mind blowing.  I feel like Ashton Cutcher is going to jump out of my computer screen and tell me I just got punk'd.

    giving them credit for having a measurable IQ its not uncommon for me to imagine some kind of wild conspiracy   lik  

    I think what developers of MMOs need to learn is to not have a 5-7 year development cycle without foresight.

    I'm sure the design document for TESO as drafted in 2005/2007 made perfect sense and would have even been acceptable at the time.

    In 2012, not so much.

    Im totally with you on this. Im sure at the time this format for ESO was sure to be a safe bet. The world of Tamriel wowified?? Sign the papers lets go! Im sure the developers felt this was a perfect idea in the 2007 gamespace. Not having the forsight to predict trends or even to utelize TES as a creative outlet..? Major failure on their part. 

    The MMO gaming space these days is dying a slow and pathetic death. Glad to see articles such as these that hold developers accountable for their megre attempts at the "next big thing".

    image
  • ProfRedProfRed Duluth, GAPosts: 3,511Member

    Originally posted by Vocadi

    Originally posted by AdamTM


    Originally posted by SEANMCAD


    Originally posted by ProfRed

    How out of touch are devs these days?  How do they not see what is going on with the genre?  How could they make these choices with a Elder Scrolls title?  This is just mind blowing.  I feel like Ashton Cutcher is going to jump out of my computer screen and tell me I just got punk'd.

    giving them credit for having a measurable IQ its not uncommon for me to imagine some kind of wild conspiracy   lik  

    I think what developers of MMOs need to learn is to not have a 5-7 year development cycle without foresight.

    I'm sure the design document for TESO as drafted in 2005/2007 made perfect sense and would have even been acceptable at the time.

    In 2012, not so much.

    Im totally with you on this. Im sure at the time this format for ESO was sure to be a safe bet. The world of Tamriel wowified?? Sign the papers lets go! Im sure the developers felt this was a perfect idea in the 2007 gamespace. Not having the forsight to predict trends or even to utelize TES as a creative outlet..? Major failure on their part. 

    The MMO gaming space these days is dying a slow and pathetic death. Glad to see articles such as these that hold developers accountable for their megre attempts at the "next big thing".

    Really, really good points here.  Still they should have looked at what is going on, kept up with market research, and redesigned some of these elements of the game.  This is a total dissapointment and another wasted IP.

  • SEANMCADSEANMCAD Houston, TXPosts: 5,348Member

    Originally posted by ProfRed

    Originally posted by Vocadi

    Originally posted by AdamTM

    Originally posted by SEANMCAD

    Originally posted by ProfRed

    How out of touch are devs these days?  How do they not see what is going on with the genre?  How could they make these choices with a Elder Scrolls title?  This is just mind blowing.  I feel like Ashton Cutcher is going to jump out of my computer screen and tell me I just got punk'd.

    giving them credit for having a measurable IQ its not uncommon for me to imagine some kind of wild conspiracy   lik  

    I think what developers of MMOs need to learn is to not have a 5-7 year development cycle without foresight.

    I'm sure the design document for TESO as drafted in 2005/2007 made perfect sense and would have even been acceptable at the time.

    In 2012, not so much.

    Im totally with you on this. Im sure at the time this format for ESO was sure to be a safe bet. The world of Tamriel wowified?? Sign the papers lets go! Im sure the developers felt this was a perfect idea in the 2007 gamespace. Not having the forsight to predict trends or even to utelize TES as a creative outlet..? Major failure on their part. 

    The MMO gaming space these days is dying a slow and pathetic death. Glad to see articles such as these that hold developers accountable for their megre attempts at the "next big thing".

    Really, really good points here.  Still they should have looked at what is going on, kept up with market research, and redesigned some of these elements of the game.  This is a total dissapointment and another wasted IP.

    this is a good point but I disagree in the context of TES.

    say for example you own a popular resturant and the vast majority of people go there because of some key dishes. You would not plan to make a franchise but remove those key dishes.

      

    Correlation does not imply causation

  • skydiver12skydiver12 burgundPosts: 432Member

    It takes years to make a (AAA) mmo, so you plan ahead.

    TES simply had no good ideas back then (from the looks of it) just copy pasted gameplay and design and suddently by the end of 2011 SWTOR happened.

    Now everything (could) be just wasted and even a bigger "failure" than SWTOR.


    Personally i wouldn't even have want to play SWTOR in 2007 or TES either. I don't really feel like pointing out too much, how flawed the initial developement plan was.


    I will simply lean back and watch if the TORTANIC get's a little sister to grind the ice.
    Who knows they even had (have) a unique pearl but did marketing BS* to appeal to the WOW crowd?
    But at any rate, the lack of awareness and the lack of clarifications from ZEM says a lot.

  • SEANMCADSEANMCAD Houston, TXPosts: 5,348Member

    Originally posted by skydiver12

    It takes years to make a (AAA) mmo, so you plan ahead.

    TES simply had no good ideas back then (from the looks of it) just copy pasted gameplay and design and suddently by the end of 2011 SWTOR happened.

    Now everything (could) be just wasted and even a bigger "failure" than SWTOR.



    Personally i wouldn't even have want to play SWTOR in 2007 or TES either. I don't really feel like pointing out too much, how flawed the initial developement plan was.



    I will simply lean back and watch if the TORTANIC get's a little sister to grind the ice.

    Who knows they even had (have) a unique pearl but did marketing BS* to appeal to the WOW crowd?

    But at any rate, the lack of awareness and the lack of clarifications from ZEM says a lot.

     I disagree. None of those factors come into play with this decision (as just one example):

    'All our games since we started have been built on a skill based system, in fact one could argue we brought the idea of skill based system to the mainstream, lets not do that but instead have classes'

    having a 3, 4, 5, 15 year gap between development and now wouldnt affect that choice

    Correlation does not imply causation

  • AdamTMAdamTM Frankfurt Am MainPosts: 1,376Member

    Originally posted by SEANMCAD

    Originally posted by ProfRed


    Originally posted by Vocadi


    Originally posted by AdamTM


    Originally posted by SEANMCAD


    Originally posted by ProfRed

    How out of touch are devs these days?  How do they not see what is going on with the genre?  How could they make these choices with a Elder Scrolls title?  This is just mind blowing.  I feel like Ashton Cutcher is going to jump out of my computer screen and tell me I just got punk'd.

    giving them credit for having a measurable IQ its not uncommon for me to imagine some kind of wild conspiracy   lik  

    I think what developers of MMOs need to learn is to not have a 5-7 year development cycle without foresight.

    I'm sure the design document for TESO as drafted in 2005/2007 made perfect sense and would have even been acceptable at the time.

    In 2012, not so much.

    Im totally with you on this. Im sure at the time this format for ESO was sure to be a safe bet. The world of Tamriel wowified?? Sign the papers lets go! Im sure the developers felt this was a perfect idea in the 2007 gamespace. Not having the forsight to predict trends or even to utelize TES as a creative outlet..? Major failure on their part. 

    The MMO gaming space these days is dying a slow and pathetic death. Glad to see articles such as these that hold developers accountable for their megre attempts at the "next big thing".

    Really, really good points here.  Still they should have looked at what is going on, kept up with market research, and redesigned some of these elements of the game.  This is a total dissapointment and another wasted IP.

    this is a good point but I disagree in the context of TES.

    say for example you own a popular resturant and the vast majority of people go there because of some key dishes. You would not plan to make a franchise but remove those key dishes.

      

    That is -additionally- true, but if released in 2007, with how Oblivion looked, these design decissions make -sort of- sense.

    Yes they wouldn't have kicked me off my chair, but at least i wouldn't have played WoW for ~5 years by then.

    Even the aesthetics make sense in that regard. If you look at Oblivion screens they are as generic as what is presented with TESO.

    TESO is a relic of its time, drafted in a time when tab-target was "the thing" in MMOs and I could even grant them that they thought back then that real-time combat and skill-based progression systems are either too hard to develop or too bandwidth intensive to carry over into a multiplayer space.

    Back then nobody heard of Darkfall, Fallen Earth or Mortal Online and sandboxes in particular were unheard off to succeed in the MMO space.

    So I will grant them the benefit of the doubt that they drafted a game for 2007 in 2007 and it made perfect sense to them.

    But lack of foresight kicks you in the balls sooner than later.

     

    If I would draft a game today in 2012 that would launch in 2020, i would not develop a game that is like Guild Wars 2.

    But thats just me.

    image
  • SEANMCADSEANMCAD Houston, TXPosts: 5,348Member

    Originally posted by AdamTM

      

    That is -additionally- true, but if released in 2007, with how Oblivion looked, these design decissions make -sort of- sense.

    Yes they wouldn't have kicked me off my chair, but at least i wouldn't have played WoW for ~5 years by then.

    Even the aesthetics make sense in that regard. If you look at Oblivion screens they are as generic as what is presented with TESO.

    TESO is a relic of its time, drafted in a time when tab-target was "the thing" in MMOs and I could even grant them that they thought back then that real-time combat and skill-based progression systems are either too hard to develop or too bandwidth intensive to carry over into a multiplayer space.

    Back then nobody heard of Darkfall, Fallen Earth or Mortal Online and sandboxes in particular were unheard off to succeed in the MMO space.

    So I will grant them the benefit of the doubt that they drafted a game for 2007 in 2007 and it made perfect sense to them.

    But lack of foresight kicks you in the balls sooner than later.

     

    If I would draft a game today in 2012 that would launch in 2020, i would not develop a game that is like Guild Wars 2.

    But thats just me.

    you dont know the TES history. The skill based approach goes back to the 1996. DaggerFall, Morrowind, Obvilion, skyrim all skill based and all BECAUSE it was such a hit and novel idea at the time.

    Correlation does not imply causation

  • AdamTMAdamTM Frankfurt Am MainPosts: 1,376Member

    Originally posted by SEANMCAD

    Originally posted by AdamTM

      

    That is -additionally- true, but if released in 2007, with how Oblivion looked, these design decissions make -sort of- sense.

    Yes they wouldn't have kicked me off my chair, but at least i wouldn't have played WoW for ~5 years by then.

    Even the aesthetics make sense in that regard. If you look at Oblivion screens they are as generic as what is presented with TESO.

    TESO is a relic of its time, drafted in a time when tab-target was "the thing" in MMOs and I could even grant them that they thought back then that real-time combat and skill-based progression systems are either too hard to develop or too bandwidth intensive to carry over into a multiplayer space.

    Back then nobody heard of Darkfall, Fallen Earth or Mortal Online and sandboxes in particular were unheard off to succeed in the MMO space.

    So I will grant them the benefit of the doubt that they drafted a game for 2007 in 2007 and it made perfect sense to them.

    But lack of foresight kicks you in the balls sooner than later.

     

    If I would draft a game today in 2012 that would launch in 2020, i would not develop a game that is like Guild Wars 2.

    But thats just me.

    you dont know the TES history. The skill based approach goes back to the 1996. DaggerFall, Morrowind, Obvilion, skyrim all skill based and all BECAUSE it was such a hit and novel idea at the time.

    I know TES history, all im saying is that in 2005 leaving out the skill-based progression in favor of classes is -more- understandable in the transition to mmorpg than it is now.

    I do not condone nor do i support that design-decission.

    We agree, im just adding a blurb of my own.

    image
  • SEANMCADSEANMCAD Houston, TXPosts: 5,348Member

    Originally posted by AdamTM

    I know TES history, all im saying is that in 2005 leaving out the skill-based progression in favor of classes is -more- understandable in the transition to mmorpg than it is now.

    I do not condone nor do i support that design-decission.

    We agree, im just adding a blurb of my own.

    on the overall MMO landscape that is true. However what I am saying is to sit in an TES office on any date between 1996 to now and say 'guys we should not do skill based this time and go for classes' is extreemly risky given the fan base REGARDLESS of what the rest of the MMO world is or is not doing.

     

     

    Correlation does not imply causation

  • LarsaLarsa NurembergPosts: 990Member

    Originally posted by Elikal

    ...

    *Hand wave @Zenimax* You want to scrap development and rethink your design philosophy.

    Frankly, you should tell Zenimax to rethink their marketing strategy and perhaps their payment model (that hasn't been announced yet as far as I know).

    A game that recently has had a very successful beta weekend (I believe the fans in that) has almost exactly the same design philosophy like the one in TESO: focus on 3-faction PvP for endgame, provide e-sport PvP, provide a hotbar combat with few skills, provide somewhat actiony combat, provide "dynamic" quests, do away with quest hubs. Sounds familiar?

    Both GW2 and TESO are themeparks that have put roughly the same twist to the themepark formula. The only difference in their respective reception is due to marketing and player expectations.

    I maintain this List of Sandbox MMORPGs. Please post or send PM for corrections and suggestions.

  • SEANMCADSEANMCAD Houston, TXPosts: 5,348Member

    Originally posted by Larsa

    Originally posted by Elikal

    ...

    *Hand wave @Zenimax* You want to scrap development and rethink your design philosophy.

    Frankly, you should tell Zenimax to rethink their marketing strategy and perhaps their payment model (that hasn't been announced yet as far as I know).

    A game that recently has had a very successful beta weekend (I believe the fans in that) has almost exactly the same design philosophy like the one in TESO: focus on 3-faction PvP for endgame, provide e-sport PvP, provide a hotbar combat with few skills, provide somewhat actiony combat, provide "dynamic" quests, do away with quest hubs. Sounds familiar?

    Both GW2 and TESO are themeparks that have put roughly the same twist to the themepark formula. The only difference in their respective reception is due to marketing and player expectations.

    payment model...lol

    yeah I dont like playing classes, I like having housing, I dont like 3rd person view, I dont like tab targeting and I dont like things to be quest dependent which is why I like TES so much but if you drop the price or make it free to play it makes it all better.

     

    lol....no

    Correlation does not imply causation

  • LarsaLarsa NurembergPosts: 990Member

    Originally posted by SEANMCAD

    ...

    payment model...lol

    yeah I dont like playing classes, I like having housing, I dont like 3rd person view, I dont like tab targeting and I dont like things to be quest dependent which is why I like TES so much but if you drop the price or make it free to play it makes it all better.

     

    lol....no

    I know that you don't like it that way (neither do I), you're practically living on these forums currently, hard to miss what your gaming preferences are. :)

    But this is a thread about media reactions and not about Sean's reaction and I pointed out that another not yet released game with largely the same feature set and design philosophy like TESO is currently getting stellar reviews from media and players alike.

    (And no, I don't play that other game either.)

    I maintain this List of Sandbox MMORPGs. Please post or send PM for corrections and suggestions.

  • SEANMCADSEANMCAD Houston, TXPosts: 5,348Member

    Originally posted by Larsa

    Originally posted by SEANMCAD

    ...

    payment model...lol

    yeah I dont like playing classes, I like having housing, I dont like 3rd person view, I dont like tab targeting and I dont like things to be quest dependent which is why I like TES so much but if you drop the price or make it free to play it makes it all better.

     

    lol....no

    I know that you don't like it that way (neither do I), you're practically living on these forums currently, hard to miss what your gaming preferences are. :)

    But this is a thread about media reactions and not about Sean's reaction and I pointed out that another not yet released game with largely the same feature set and design philosophy like TESO is currently getting stellar reviews from media and players alike.

    (And no, I don't play that other game either.)

    talk about a massive non-sequitur.

    what does payment model have to do with media reaction?

    Correlation does not imply causation

  • ZylaxxZylaxx Erlanger, KYPosts: 2,574Member

    Originally posted by ProfRed

    How out of touch are devs these days?  How do they not see what is going on with the genre?  How could they make these choices with a Elder Scrolls title?  This is just mind blowing.  I feel like Ashton Cutcher is going to jump out of my computer screen and tell me I just got punk'd.

    Its called Corporate Greed.  They for some reason still believe that its safer to steal a portion of the 10 million subscribers away from WoW instead of make a game the 290 million people who dont play WoW.  Makes no sense to me but then again I dont have a Statisctical Engineering degree from MIT to prove my theory.

    Everything you need to know about Elder Scrolls Online

    Playing: GW2
    Waiting on: TESO
    Next Flop: Planetside 2
    Best MMO of all time: Asheron's Call - The first company to recreate AC will be the next greatest MMO.

    image

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