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ElderScrolls RPG combat not possible in a MMO

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  • DAS1337DAS1337 Member UncommonPosts: 2,610

    Originally posted by SEANMCAD

    Originally posted by DAS1337

     

    This conversation is pointless.  What we have in front of us is quite a few games with a FPS combat system that doesn't work.  Either that, or it is significantly less efficient than what TESO is going to use.  Until you can actually argue why it is better, we pretty much have to assume that it simply isn't.

    but they DO work.

    are you seriously trying to say that the combat engine in darkfall 'dosent work'? its as good or better than Skyrim combat

    darkfall has a very good combat engine built by a small staff. PEROID.

    It zenimax doesnt want to hire people to build and maintain one that is a different story but to say its not possible or that darkfall doesnt have a good one is beyond asine.

    Wow, I am so surprised that you ignored the second part of that statement!!  So surprised! 

     

    In case you don't understand sarcasm, I'm pointing it out for you.

     

    "Either that, or it is significantly less efficient than what TESO is going to use"

     

    I don't care if the staff is one person or one thousand people, if any system is less efficient than another, it is still less efficient.  Unless you consider a system where you have to pre-load spells, go in and out of combat mode, UI mode, and exploration mode.  Where hotkeys do not trigger upon pressing them and you go in and out of third person, completely breaking up the entire flow of combat... better.  No.  I just gave reasons why it is less efficient.  Now go ahead and try to argue it.  You can't. 

     

    Oh, but that doesn't support your argument?  I'm sorry?

  • AldersAlders Member RarePosts: 2,207

    Of course the combat is possible in an MMO, are we serious here?  That's not the problem though, it's every other feature that people enjoy about TES that is not possible when people are brought together online.  Combat is not the problem.

  • DAS1337DAS1337 Member UncommonPosts: 2,610

    Originally posted by Alders

    Of course the combat is possible in an MMO, are we serious here?  That's not the problem though, it's every other feature that people enjoy about TES that is not possible when people are brought together online.  Combat is not the problem.

    I'm not worried about it either.  I want housing.  That's certainly one feature they could have among the hundreds that they won't have.  FFA full loot, stealing and theft, thousands of items you can pick up and drop, classless, skill based systems I'm looking at you.

  • SEANMCADSEANMCAD Member EpicPosts: 16,775

    Originally posted by DAS1337

    Originally posted by SEANMCAD

    Originally posted by DAS1337

     

    This conversation is pointless.  What we have in front of us is quite a few games with a FPS combat system that doesn't work.  Either that, or it is significantly less efficient than what TESO is going to use.  Until you can actually argue why it is better, we pretty much have to assume that it simply isn't.

    but they DO work.

    are you seriously trying to say that the combat engine in darkfall 'dosent work'? its as good or better than Skyrim combat

    darkfall has a very good combat engine built by a small staff. PEROID.

    It zenimax doesnt want to hire people to build and maintain one that is a different story but to say its not possible or that darkfall doesnt have a good one is beyond asine.

    Wow, I am so surprised that you ignored the second part of that statement!!  So surprised! 

     

    In case you don't understand sarcasm, I'm pointing it out for you.

     

    "Either that, or it is significantly less efficient than what TESO is going to use"

     

    I don't care if the staff is one person or one thousand people, if any system is less efficient than another, it is still less efficient.  Unless you consider a system where you have to pre-load spells, go in and out of combat mode, UI mode, and exploration mode.  Where hotkeys do not trigger upon pressing them and you go in and out of third person, completely breaking up the entire flow of combat... better.  No.  I just gave reasons why it is less efficient.  Now go ahead and try to argue it.  You can't. 

     

    Oh, but that doesn't support your argument?  I'm sorry?

    everything you have just said in detail darkfall does and they do it extreemly well.

    WTF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    sorry for the rage not all of them but most of them and it will work not mostly becuase its currently working perfectly.

    Nobody has an issue with darkfall combat engine.

     

    Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.

    Please do not respond to me

  • DAS1337DAS1337 Member UncommonPosts: 2,610

    Originally posted by SEANMCAD

    Originally posted by DAS1337


    Originally posted by SEANMCAD


    Originally posted by DAS1337

     

    This conversation is pointless.  What we have in front of us is quite a few games with a FPS combat system that doesn't work.  Either that, or it is significantly less efficient than what TESO is going to use.  Until you can actually argue why it is better, we pretty much have to assume that it simply isn't.

    but they DO work.

    are you seriously trying to say that the combat engine in darkfall 'dosent work'? its as good or better than Skyrim combat

    darkfall has a very good combat engine built by a small staff. PEROID.

    It zenimax doesnt want to hire people to build and maintain one that is a different story but to say its not possible or that darkfall doesnt have a good one is beyond asine.

    Wow, I am so surprised that you ignored the second part of that statement!!  So surprised! 

     

    In case you don't understand sarcasm, I'm pointing it out for you.

     

    "Either that, or it is significantly less efficient than what TESO is going to use"

     

    I don't care if the staff is one person or one thousand people, if any system is less efficient than another, it is still less efficient.  Unless you consider a system where you have to pre-load spells, go in and out of combat mode, UI mode, and exploration mode.  Where hotkeys do not trigger upon pressing them and you go in and out of third person, completely breaking up the entire flow of combat... better.  No.  I just gave reasons why it is less efficient.  Now go ahead and try to argue it.  You can't. 

     

    Oh, but that doesn't support your argument?  I'm sorry?

    everything you have just said in detail darkfall does and they do it extreemly well.

    WTF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

     

    Oh man, you certainly swayed my thinking with that spellbinding argument...

  • SEANMCADSEANMCAD Member EpicPosts: 16,775

    Originally posted by Alders

    Of course the combat is possible in an MMO, are we serious here?  That's not the problem though, it's every other feature that people enjoy about TES that is not possible when people are brought together online.  Combat is not the problem.

    To be frank most of the features people are in debate on exist in darkfall right now. The features work fine, they work fine together. Darkfall itself lacks questing content, needs to be less sociopathic PvP focused but that is aside from the main conversation is.

    For all intents and purposes Darkfall IS elder scroll online but without enough quests and stories but replaced with that clan holdings and seiges.

    Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.

    Please do not respond to me

  • SEANMCADSEANMCAD Member EpicPosts: 16,775

    Originally posted by DAS1337

    Originally posted by SEANMCAD

    Originally posted by DAS1337

    Originally posted by SEANMCAD

    Originally posted by DAS1337

     

    This conversation is pointless.  What we have in front of us is quite a few games with a FPS combat system that doesn't work.  Either that, or it is significantly less efficient than what TESO is going to use.  Until you can actually argue why it is better, we pretty much have to assume that it simply isn't.

    but they DO work.

    are you seriously trying to say that the combat engine in darkfall 'dosent work'? its as good or better than Skyrim combat

    darkfall has a very good combat engine built by a small staff. PEROID.

    It zenimax doesnt want to hire people to build and maintain one that is a different story but to say its not possible or that darkfall doesnt have a good one is beyond asine.

    Wow, I am so surprised that you ignored the second part of that statement!!  So surprised! 

     

    In case you don't understand sarcasm, I'm pointing it out for you.

     

    "Either that, or it is significantly less efficient than what TESO is going to use"

     

    I don't care if the staff is one person or one thousand people, if any system is less efficient than another, it is still less efficient.  Unless you consider a system where you have to pre-load spells, go in and out of combat mode, UI mode, and exploration mode.  Where hotkeys do not trigger upon pressing them and you go in and out of third person, completely breaking up the entire flow of combat... better.  No.  I just gave reasons why it is less efficient.  Now go ahead and try to argue it.  You can't. 

     

    Oh, but that doesn't support your argument?  I'm sorry?

    everything you have just said in detail darkfall does and they do it extreemly well.

    WTF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

     

    Oh man, you certainly swayed my thinking with that spellbinding argument...

    nobody disputes Darkfalls on its combat engine, the people who do not like the game even say its one of the best.

    Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.

    Please do not respond to me

  • AldersAlders Member RarePosts: 2,207

    Originally posted by SEANMCAD

    Originally posted by Alders

    Of course the combat is possible in an MMO, are we serious here?  That's not the problem though, it's every other feature that people enjoy about TES that is not possible when people are brought together online.  Combat is not the problem.

    To be frank most of the features people are in debate on exist in darkfall right now. The features work fine, they work fine together. Darkfall itself lacks questing content, needs to be less sociopathic PvP focused but that is aside from the main conversation is.

    For all intents and purposes Darkfall IS elder scroll online but without enough quests and stories but replaced with that clan holdings and seiges.

     

    I don't think TES players have any interest in Darkfall or they'd already be playing it.  All those features that exist, while they may work, i have a feeling would only annoy players once others are brought into their special world.

  • SEANMCADSEANMCAD Member EpicPosts: 16,775

    Originally posted by Alders

    Originally posted by SEANMCAD

    Originally posted by Alders

    Of course the combat is possible in an MMO, are we serious here?  That's not the problem though, it's every other feature that people enjoy about TES that is not possible when people are brought together online.  Combat is not the problem.

    To be frank most of the features people are in debate on exist in darkfall right now. The features work fine, they work fine together. Darkfall itself lacks questing content, needs to be less sociopathic PvP focused but that is aside from the main conversation is.

    For all intents and purposes Darkfall IS elder scroll online but without enough quests and stories but replaced with that clan holdings and seiges.

     

    I don't think TES players have any interest in Darkfall or they'd already be playing it.  All those features that exist, while they may work, i have a feeling would only annoy players once others are brought into their special world.

    as it turns out TES is either my favorite or second favorite series ever. The first night I played Darkfall my instant reaction was 'this is what morrowind online could have been'. The two games are actually very much alike in ways that are a bit abstract to explain. never the less, specifically the experience you have with the FPS style combat is almost exactly the same experience as you have with Skyrim, only Darkfall as a lot more options.

    Never mind that darkfall ALSO has no instances, cities that can be seiged, boats that can be built and saled. but TES developers are saying that they cant:

    when night = change stats of player.

     

     

    Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.

    Please do not respond to me

  • GrayGhost79GrayGhost79 Member UncommonPosts: 4,775

    Originally posted by Alders

    Originally posted by SEANMCAD


    Originally posted by Alders

    Of course the combat is possible in an MMO, are we serious here?  That's not the problem though, it's every other feature that people enjoy about TES that is not possible when people are brought together online.  Combat is not the problem.

    To be frank most of the features people are in debate on exist in darkfall right now. The features work fine, they work fine together. Darkfall itself lacks questing content, needs to be less sociopathic PvP focused but that is aside from the main conversation is.

    For all intents and purposes Darkfall IS elder scroll online but without enough quests and stories but replaced with that clan holdings and seiges.

     

    I don't think TES players have any interest in Darkfall or they'd already be playing it.  All those features that exist, while they may work, i have a feeling would only annoy players once others are brought into their special world.

    No one is saying make it like DFO, the point is that it is possible this has been proven.

    Combat similar to TES - DarkFall, Mortal Online

    Housing - Ultima Online and Star Wars Galaxy did player housing well, Games Like DFO came up with a different spin on player housing that still works.

    Werewolves - Shifters are in GW2 and a few other MMO's though not many.

    Much of what ticks people off is that Zenimax was saying that they didn't do this because of technical limitations. The problem with that excuse is we've seen all these different mechanics done in many different MMO's. Not all together but they have been done.

    How can what we've seen already done in various games not be possible to do? Much of it has been done by indie developers with little funding and experience.

  • DistopiaDistopia Member EpicPosts: 21,183

    Originally posted by GrayGhost79

     

    No one is saying make it like DFO, the point is that it is possible this has been proven.

    Combat similar to TES - DarkFall, Mortal Online

    Housing - Ultima Online and Star Wars Galaxy did player housing well, Games Like DFO came up with a different spin on player housing that still works.

    Werewolves - Shifters are in GW2 and a few other MMO's though not many.

    Much of what ticks people off is that Zenimax was saying that they didn't do this because of technical limitations. The problem with that excuse is we've seen all these different mechanics done in many different MMO's. Not all together but they have been done.

    How can what we've seen already done in various games not be possible to do? Much of it has been done by indie developers with little funding and experience.

    People just don't seem to get that no one has really denied they "work". It's the point that in many cases (most really) they haven't exactly been without some serious technical flaws, that would take precious conceptual time through reiteration to make them work great and avoid these known problems. Not to mention time down the road where new issues may emerge.

    Everyone can just look around and see examples of these things "working" in an MMO, but everyone can also look around and see where lot's could be done to improve these features. Which it really boils down to time given and budget allocation. We can all make guesses about that but we don't know any facts there, so that's all it is guessing.

    Technical limitation could also be in reference to the game engine itself. No one seems to consider that at all, instead all focus seems to be on sucky devs, laziness, or whatever shines a bad light on the dev team.

    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson


  • Johnie-MarzJohnie-Marz Member UncommonPosts: 865

    Originally posted by Alders

    Originally posted by SEANMCAD


    Originally posted by Alders

    Of course the combat is possible in an MMO, are we serious here?  That's not the problem though, it's every other feature that people enjoy about TES that is not possible when people are brought together online.  Combat is not the problem.

    To be frank most of the features people are in debate on exist in darkfall right now. The features work fine, they work fine together. Darkfall itself lacks questing content, needs to be less sociopathic PvP focused but that is aside from the main conversation is.

    For all intents and purposes Darkfall IS elder scroll online but without enough quests and stories but replaced with that clan holdings and seiges.

     

    I don't think TES players have any interest in Darkfall or they'd already be playing it.  All those features that exist, while they may work, i have a feeling would only annoy players once others are brought into their special world.

    No, TES players just don't like getting ganked in the starting areas by gangs of older players. Darkfall isn't low in population because it has bad features, it has a low population because it's player base is strangling the game by the horrible way it treats new players. Eventually older players leave the game but they aren't replace by new players because, when the new players try the game, they get harassed by older players in the starting area until they quit.

    An Elder Scrolls game that had some of the good features of Darkfall but with more of a PVE Bent would go over very well I believe.

    Skill based, non linear quests, Non tab targeting, Elder Scrolls setting and history, plus the best of the Darkfall features all rolled up into one.

  • SEANMCADSEANMCAD Member EpicPosts: 16,775

    Originally posted by Johnie-Marz

    Originally posted by Alders

    Originally posted by SEANMCAD

    Originally posted by Alders

    Of course the combat is possible in an MMO, are we serious here?  That's not the problem though, it's every other feature that people enjoy about TES that is not possible when people are brought together online.  Combat is not the problem.

    To be frank most of the features people are in debate on exist in darkfall right now. The features work fine, they work fine together. Darkfall itself lacks questing content, needs to be less sociopathic PvP focused but that is aside from the main conversation is.

    For all intents and purposes Darkfall IS elder scroll online but without enough quests and stories but replaced with that clan holdings and seiges.

     

    I don't think TES players have any interest in Darkfall or they'd already be playing it.  All those features that exist, while they may work, i have a feeling would only annoy players once others are brought into their special world.

    No, TES players just don't like getting ganked in the starting areas by gangs of older players. Darkfall isn't low in population because it has bad features, it has a low population because it's player base is strangling the game by the horrible way it treats new players. Eventually older players leave the game but they aren't replace by new players because, when the new players try the game, they get harassed by older players in the starting area until they quit.

    An Elder Scrolls game that had some of the good features of Darkfall but with more of a PVE Bent would go over very well I believe.

    Skill based, non linear quests, Non tab targeting, Elder Scrolls setting and history, plus the best of the Darkfall features all rolled up into one.

    exactly.

    added more quest content, make pvp a little bit more friendly toward those who are not sociopaths, make gathering resource not so much an afk affair and you pretty much have exactly what many would expect from TES online but in addition has clan seigable assets.

    Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.

    Please do not respond to me

  • DistopiaDistopia Member EpicPosts: 21,183

    Originally posted by Johnie-Marz

    No, TES players just don't like getting ganked in the starting areas by gangs of older players. Darkfall isn't low in population because it has bad features, it has a low population because it's player base is strangling the game by the horrible way it treats new players. Eventually older players leave the game but they aren't replace by new players because, when the new players try the game, they get harassed by older players in the starting area until they quit.

    An Elder Scrolls game that had some of the good features of Darkfall but with more of a PVE Bent would go over very well I believe.

    Skill based, non linear quests, Non tab targeting, Elder Scrolls setting and history, plus the best of the Darkfall features all rolled up into one.

    Yellow and orange don't really add up hehe, isn't that a result of bad feature implementation? THE devs are responsible for what their players are allowed to do.

    The rest I can agree with, sure, that might make for a good game, might is key though. As one major impact on sandboxes as a whole is community, and it would mostly boil down to that to make for a good sandbox game. I've wanted that back for years, a good sandbox community is hard to come by in this day and age. I'm usually looked at as foolish to think it's possible anymore.

    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson


  • KelthiusKelthius Member UncommonPosts: 298

    Originally posted by SEANMCAD

    Originally posted by Johnie-Marz


    Originally posted by Alders


    Originally posted by SEANMCAD


    Originally posted by Alders

    exactly.

    added more quest content, make pvp a little bit more friendly toward those who are not sociopaths, make gathering resource not so much an afk affair and you pretty much have exactly what many would expect from TES online but in addition has clan seigable assets.

    Make the best resouces available only in group PvE areas or in PvP areas. Craftable gear should be as good as dropped gear and all gear should have durability that can only be repaired with the proper resouces by the right profession. That way PvE, PvP, and crafting all have their place and don't lose viability.

    image
  • SEANMCADSEANMCAD Member EpicPosts: 16,775

    Originally posted by Distopia

    Originally posted by Johnie-Marz

    No, TES players just don't like getting ganked in the starting areas by gangs of older players. Darkfall isn't low in population because it has bad features, it has a low population because it's player base is strangling the game by the horrible way it treats new players. Eventually older players leave the game but they aren't replace by new players because, when the new players try the game, they get harassed by older players in the starting area until they quit.

    An Elder Scrolls game that had some of the good features of Darkfall but with more of a PVE Bent would go over very well I believe.

    Skill based, non linear quests, Non tab targeting, Elder Scrolls setting and history, plus the best of the Darkfall features all rolled up into one.

    Yellow and orange don't really add up hehe, isn't that a result of bad feature implementation? THE devs are responsible for what their players are allowed to do.

    The rest I can agree with, sure, that might make for a good game, might is key though. As one major impact on sandboxes as a whole is community, and it would mostly boil down to that to make for a good sandbox game. I've wanted that back for years, a good sandbox community is hard to come by in this day and age. I'm usually looked at as foolish to think it's possible anymore.

    the thing is if certian features attract certian types of people you dont want in your game then that is the actual answer not 'FPS is not really possible in an MMO' (I clearly paraphrase).

    Never the less the fix is easy and doesnt require a rearchitecture of the gaming engine and AV has actually done some variable of that. The problem for them is there core community are sociopaths who want to hack up new players but want to complain about it too.

     

    added: actually that is not completely true actually new players dont get targeted as much as people claim but what does happen is clans get a city and then are suprised when they get raided all the time.

    Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.

    Please do not respond to me

  • Johnie-MarzJohnie-Marz Member UncommonPosts: 865

    Originally posted by Distopia

    Originally posted by Johnie-Marz



    No, TES players just don't like getting ganked in the starting areas by gangs of older players. Darkfall isn't low in population because it has bad features, it has a low population because it's player base is strangling the game by the horrible way it treats new players. Eventually older players leave the game but they aren't replace by new players because, when the new players try the game, they get harassed by older players in the starting area until they quit.

    An Elder Scrolls game that had some of the good features of Darkfall but with more of a PVE Bent would go over very well I believe.

    Skill based, non linear quests, Non tab targeting, Elder Scrolls setting and history, plus the best of the Darkfall features all rolled up into one.

    Yellow and orange don't really add up hehe, isn't that a result of bad feature implementation? THE devs are responsible for what their players are allowed to do.

    The rest I can agree with, sure, that might make for a good game, might is key though. As one major impact on sandboxes as a whole is community, and it would mostly boil down to that to make for a good sandbox game. I've wanted that back for years, a good sandbox community is hard to come by in this day and age. I'm usually looked at as foolish to think it's possible anymore.

    They do add up. Darkfall doesn't have bad features. Darkfall has one bad feature and a lot of good features. (Techinically it isn't even a bad feature if you like FFA full loot pvp)

    You get rid of the one bad feature keep as many of the good features, then add in the Elder scrolls history and story line, and some great pve content and you could have an ElderScrolls game that actually resembles the Elder Scrolls.

  • DistopiaDistopia Member EpicPosts: 21,183

    Originally posted by Johnie-Marz

    Originally posted by Distopia


    Originally posted by Johnie-Marz



    No, TES players just don't like getting ganked in the starting areas by gangs of older players. Darkfall isn't low in population because it has bad features, it has a low population because it's player base is strangling the game by the horrible way it treats new players. Eventually older players leave the game but they aren't replace by new players because, when the new players try the game, they get harassed by older players in the starting area until they quit.

    An Elder Scrolls game that had some of the good features of Darkfall but with more of a PVE Bent would go over very well I believe.

    Skill based, non linear quests, Non tab targeting, Elder Scrolls setting and history, plus the best of the Darkfall features all rolled up into one.

    Yellow and orange don't really add up hehe, isn't that a result of bad feature implementation? THE devs are responsible for what their players are allowed to do.

    The rest I can agree with, sure, that might make for a good game, might is key though. As one major impact on sandboxes as a whole is community, and it would mostly boil down to that to make for a good sandbox game. I've wanted that back for years, a good sandbox community is hard to come by in this day and age. I'm usually looked at as foolish to think it's possible anymore.

    They do add up. Darkfall doesn't have bad features. Darkfall has one bad feature and a lot of good features. (Techinically it isn't even a bad feature if you like FFA full loot pvp)

    You get rid of the one bad feature keep as many of the good features, then add in the Elder scrolls history and story line, and some great pve content and you could have an ElderScrolls game that actually resembles the Elder Scrolls.

    (yeller)That was basically what I was saying,  I do also agree with the part at the end. It's only bad if you don't like uncontrolled FFA PVP. I don't exactly mind it, it's just not healthy for a game IMO.

    Yep again I can agree that would make for a good TES MMO.

    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson


  • KelthiusKelthius Member UncommonPosts: 298

    Originally posted by Johnie-Marz

    Originally posted by Distopia


    Originally posted by Johnie-Marz

    They do add up. Darkfall doesn't have bad features. Darkfall has one bad feature and a lot of good features. (Techinically it isn't even a bad feature if you like FFA full loot pvp)

    You get rid of the one bad feature keep as many of the good features, then add in the Elder scrolls history and story line, and some great pve content and you could have an ElderScrolls game that actually resembles the Elder Scrolls.

    The feature I don't like in DF is the lack of skill cap. However, I don't think a lack of skill cap would bother me as much if it was done with a talent tree (Skyrim). However, having both a skill cap and a talent tree would give the game a lot of diversity. My least favorite piece of information on TESO is preset classes and, I assume, the lack of custom classes.

    I agree with you, though. When I first read about TESO, I immediately thought, "This is going to be Darkfall with a shit ton of funding and a huge fan base. They'll do it the right way." Unfortunately, this is not the case.

    image
  • DistopiaDistopia Member EpicPosts: 21,183

    Originally posted by SEANMCAD

     

    the thing is if certian features attract certian types of people you dont want in your game then that is the actual answer not 'FPS is not really possible in an MMO' (I clearly paraphrase).

    Never the less the fix is easy and doesnt require a rearchitecture of the gaming engine and AV has actually done some variable of that. The problem for them is there core community are sociopaths who want to hack up new players but want to complain about it too.

     

    added: actually that is not completely true actually new players dont get targeted as much as people claim but what does happen is clans get a city and then are suprised when they get raided all the time.

    All true, and that's the one thing I would enjoy about darkfall (getting raided), and raiding others cities. IF SWG hadn't been gutted I'd probably still be doing that today.

    I hope I'm not giving off the impression I wouldn't prefer a TES game that was more..well.. TES. As I very much would prefer that.

    The one reason I loved morrowind so much was because it reminded me of an offline SWG without the actual sand been hooked on the series ever since.

    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson


  • ClassicstarClassicstar Member UncommonPosts: 2,697


    Originally posted by Johnie-Marz

    Originally posted by Alders

    Originally posted by SEANMCAD


    Originally posted by Alders

    Of course the combat is possible in an MMO, are we serious here?  That's not the problem though, it's every other feature that people enjoy about TES that is not possible when people are brought together online.  Combat is not the problem.
    To be frank most of the features people are in debate on exist in darkfall right now. The features work fine, they work fine together. Darkfall itself lacks questing content, needs to be less sociopathic PvP focused but that is aside from the main conversation is.
    For all intents and purposes Darkfall IS elder scroll online but without enough quests and stories but replaced with that clan holdings and seiges.


     
    I don't think TES players have any interest in Darkfall or they'd already be playing it.  All those features that exist, while they may work, i have a feeling would only annoy players once others are brought into their special world.


    No, TES players just don't like getting ganked in the starting areas by gangs of older players. Darkfall isn't low in population because it has bad features, it has a low population because it's player base is strangling the game by the horrible way it treats new players. Eventually older players leave the game but they aren't replace by new players because, when the new players try the game, they get harassed by older players in the starting area until they quit.
    An Elder Scrolls game that had some of the good features of Darkfall but with more of a PVE Bent would go over very well I believe.
    Skill based, non linear quests, Non tab targeting, Elder Scrolls setting and history, plus the best of the Darkfall features all rolled up into one.


    What pure nonsens your saying about Darkfall game failed becouse of guys like you who firstly tell lies about Darkfall and cry about free for all PvP systems, your obvious not suited for to even concider playing this kind of games, its beyond me if you have played Darkfall(i very doub that) the empty servers is not becouse of hardcore PvP its for totally different reasons.

    Ive played Darkfall for more then 2 years so i know a little how and why not many play Darkfall but not what you saying here.

    Hope to build full AMD system RYZEN/VEGA/AM4!!!

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  • GrayGhost79GrayGhost79 Member UncommonPosts: 4,775

    Originally posted by Distopia

    Originally posted by GrayGhost79


     

    No one is saying make it like DFO, the point is that it is possible this has been proven.

    Combat similar to TES - DarkFall, Mortal Online

    Housing - Ultima Online and Star Wars Galaxy did player housing well, Games Like DFO came up with a different spin on player housing that still works.

    Werewolves - Shifters are in GW2 and a few other MMO's though not many.

    Much of what ticks people off is that Zenimax was saying that they didn't do this because of technical limitations. The problem with that excuse is we've seen all these different mechanics done in many different MMO's. Not all together but they have been done.

    How can what we've seen already done in various games not be possible to do? Much of it has been done by indie developers with little funding and experience.

    People just don't seem to get that no one has really denied they "work". It's the point that in many cases (most really) they haven't exactly been without some serious technical flaws, that would take precious conceptual time through reiteration to make them work great and avoid these known problems. Not to mention time down the road where new issues may emerge.

    Everyone can just look around and see examples of these things "working" in an MMO, but everyone can also look around and see where lot's could be done to improve these features. Which it really boils down to time given and budget allocation. We can all make guesses about that but we don't know any facts there, so that's all it is guessing.

    Technical limitation could also be in reference to the game engine itself. No one seems to consider that at all, instead all focus seems to be on sucky devs, laziness, or whatever shines a bad light on the dev team.

    Actually shifters were done well in GW2

    Housing was done fairly well in UO, SWG, and even DFO.

    More action oriented combat has worked well in DCUO, DFO, GW2 and even TERA (at least it tries and isn't horrible)

    Many of the technical flaws come from poor choices such as engine choices, direction, concepts, etc. Other systems poorly done effect the systems that are done well. But many of the above mechanics are actually what is and was praised in these other MMO's. The problems many have, had to do with other aspects of the game that negated the pluses.

    Sure, they could have made a bad engine choice and that is the reason for the limitations. But does that really mean they couldn't have done any of this? They chose to go with an engine that limited them if that were the case, bad choice or not it was their choice.

     

    Sure there could have been a low budget and little time to develop the game. This is likely true, but again you act like this excuses them.

     

    Sucky devs, lazy devs, bad engine choice, lack of budget and time, etc. does it really matter why? The problem simply boils down to this.

    We know it can be done, we have seen it done, they told us they couldn't do it because it would be to difficult for them even when indie developers with low budgets and little experience can do it.

     

  • DistopiaDistopia Member EpicPosts: 21,183

    Originally posted by GrayGhost79

     

    Actually shifters were done well in GW2

    Housing was done fairly well in UO, SWG, and even DFO.

    More action oriented combat has worked well in DCUO, DFO, GW2 and even TERA (at least it tries and isn't horrible)

    Many of the technical flaws come from poor choices such as engine choices, direction, concepts, etc. Other systems poorly done effect the systems that are done well. But many of the above mechanics are actually what is and was praised in these other MMO's. The problems many have, had to do with other aspects of the game that negated the pluses.

    Sure, they could have made a bad engine choice and that is the reason for the limitations. But does that really mean they couldn't have done any of this? They chose to go with an engine that limited them if that were the case, bad choice or not it was their choice.

     

    Sure there could have been a low budget and little time to develop the game. This is likely true, but again you act like this excuses them.

     

    Sucky devs, lazy devs, bad engine choice, lack of budget and time, etc. does it really matter why? The problem simply boils down to this.

    We know it can be done, we have seen it done, they told us they couldn't do it because it would be to difficult for them even when indie developers with low budgets and little experience can do it.

     

    I don't exactly disagree with anything here, accept that I am excusing them, I'm not speaking on behalf of the devs, I'm just projecting my own ideals into the discussion. I could be wrong on some things, or completely wrong on everything. For all I know they are lazy and lying through their teeth. I'm just offering possibilities and conjecture like the next guy, with a bit of opinion about those mechanics in other games (not GW2 though hadn't seen the use of shape-shifting yet).

     

    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson


  • SEANMCADSEANMCAD Member EpicPosts: 16,775

    Originally posted by Classicstar

     




    Originally posted by Johnie-Marz





    Originally posted by Alders





    Originally posted by SEANMCAD






    Originally posted by Alders



    Of course the combat is possible in an MMO, are we serious here?  That's not the problem though, it's every other feature that people enjoy about TES that is not possible when people are brought together online.  Combat is not the problem.






    To be frank most of the features people are in debate on exist in darkfall right now. The features work fine, they work fine together. Darkfall itself lacks questing content, needs to be less sociopathic PvP focused but that is aside from the main conversation is.

    For all intents and purposes Darkfall IS elder scroll online but without enough quests and stories but replaced with that clan holdings and seiges.






     

    I don't think TES players have any interest in Darkfall or they'd already be playing it.  All those features that exist, while they may work, i have a feeling would only annoy players once others are brought into their special world.






    No, TES players just don't like getting ganked in the starting areas by gangs of older players. Darkfall isn't low in population because it has bad features, it has a low population because it's player base is strangling the game by the horrible way it treats new players. Eventually older players leave the game but they aren't replace by new players because, when the new players try the game, they get harassed by older players in the starting area until they quit.

    An Elder Scrolls game that had some of the good features of Darkfall but with more of a PVE Bent would go over very well I believe.

    Skill based, non linear quests, Non tab targeting, Elder Scrolls setting and history, plus the best of the Darkfall features all rolled up into one.




     



    What pure nonsens your saying about Darkfall game failed becouse of guys like you who firstly tell lies about Darkfall and cry about free for all PvP systems, your obvious not suited for to even concider playing this kind of games, its beyond me if you have played Darkfall(i very doub that) the empty servers is not becouse of hardcore PvP its for totally different reasons.

    Ive played Darkfall for more then 2 years so i know a little how and why not many play Darkfall but not what you saying here.

    I have played Darkfall for a long time as well I have also seen a lot of people say they leave for different reason and NONE of them was because of the combat engine.

    Most of it is because of some masked excuse because the real reason was they didnt like losing (aka. skill grind).

    never the less we are not hear to talk much about Darkfall other that to use it as an example of an FPS engine that works very well in an MMO.

    Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.

    Please do not respond to me

  • Johnie-MarzJohnie-Marz Member UncommonPosts: 865

    Originally posted by Classicstar

     




    Originally posted by Johnie-Marz





    Originally posted by Alders






    Originally posted by SEANMCAD








    Originally posted by Alders



    Of course the combat is possible in an MMO, are we serious here?  That's not the problem though, it's every other feature that people enjoy about TES that is not possible when people are brought together online.  Combat is not the problem.






    To be frank most of the features people are in debate on exist in darkfall right now. The features work fine, they work fine together. Darkfall itself lacks questing content, needs to be less sociopathic PvP focused but that is aside from the main conversation is.

    For all intents and purposes Darkfall IS elder scroll online but without enough quests and stories but replaced with that clan holdings and seiges.






     

    I don't think TES players have any interest in Darkfall or they'd already be playing it.  All those features that exist, while they may work, i have a feeling would only annoy players once others are brought into their special world.






    No, TES players just don't like getting ganked in the starting areas by gangs of older players. Darkfall isn't low in population because it has bad features, it has a low population because it's player base is strangling the game by the horrible way it treats new players. Eventually older players leave the game but they aren't replace by new players because, when the new players try the game, they get harassed by older players in the starting area until they quit.

    An Elder Scrolls game that had some of the good features of Darkfall but with more of a PVE Bent would go over very well I believe.

    Skill based, non linear quests, Non tab targeting, Elder Scrolls setting and history, plus the best of the Darkfall features all rolled up into one.




     



    What pure nonsens your saying about Darkfall game failed becouse of guys like you who firstly tell lies about Darkfall and cry about free for all PvP systems, your obvious not suited for to even concider playing this kind of games, its beyond me if you have played Darkfall(i very doub that) the empty servers is not becouse of hardcore PvP its for totally different reasons.

    Ive played Darkfall for more then 2 years so i know a little how and why not many play Darkfall but not what you saying here.

     

    It is not nonsense, it is my expirience playing the game.

    I have tried Darkfall, Twice in fact, because it has so many of the features that I am looking for in a game. I really want a game where you used and Item and you gain in skill.

    Both times I had the same expirience. I started playing, I enjoyed it until a bunch of guys in plate mail killed me. So you rez, go back to your body, or just go to your bank and get some more armor and go out again, then you get ganked again by a bunch of veterans in much better armor.

    The second time was a little different because there was a little bit of a waiting piriod before I could be killed. but the moment the waiting piriod was over I was killed over and over by the Veterans of the game, while I was trying to kill goblins or just collecting materials for crafting.

    When They are on horse back you can't get away, when they are in finely crafted armour and you are out numbered you can't win.

    In EVE there is a saying, "If you die, it is your own fault" and it is true. Because what that means is, you could have done something to prevent it. There is no preventing your death in Darkfall by playing smart. It is just a bunch of guys who don't want a real fight attacking player they know can't really fight back.

    So yeah, Getting ganked over and over by expirienced players is not my type of game, nor is it most peoples type of game.  However, you get rid of that one feature and you have the makings of a pretty good game. Add in some of the skyrim ES features and lore and you could have a really great game.

     

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