didnt expect fanbois to come out so soon. ussually they wait until closer to release.
i mean seriously OP are you kidding me?
this is what you are saying
-skyrim has unbalanced class system . best solution: replace with wow style class system
-skyrim combat is too hack and slash. best solution: replace with wow style tab target 3rd person combat
im sorry but 1st person perspective made elder scrolls great. the open class system made elder scrolls great (after it was fixed with mods).
you are not meant to play a character so long that you max all the skills. that was the intention of the developers. balance was never bethesda forte, it doesnt mean all their unique mechanics should be replaced with WOW mechanics.
YOU are what is WRONG with the industry. you support any piece of crap, you jump to its defense. this is why mmorpgs suck.
Skyrims system simply would flat out not work in MMO setting,
Why do some of you keep saying this?
There are MMO's that use FPS combat, as well as action combat like TERA and DCUO, and it works.
Just because you prefer something else, doesn't mean it won't work, it means you prefer something else.
And why do you need to drop the Fbomb? Cursing doesn't make you sound smarter, nor does it make what you write true.
didnt expect fanbois to come out so soon. ussually they wait until closer to release.
i mean seriously OP are you kidding me?
this is what you are saying
-skyrim has unbalanced class system . best solution: replace with wow style class system
-skyrim combat is too hack and slash. best solution: replace with wow style tab target 3rd person combat
im sorry but 1st person perspective made elder scrolls great. the open class system made elder scrolls great (after it was fixed with mods).
you are not meant to play a character so long that you max all the skills. that was the intention of the developers. balance was never bethesda forte, it doesnt mean all their unique mechanics should be replaced with WOW mechanics.
YOU are what is WRONG with the industry. you support any piece of crap, you jump to its defense. this is why mmorpgs suck.
In a single player game, were content is supposed to be dynamically scaling to the player, and you play the god like hero, balance isn't required.
^this
no one here is saying that we should copy paste single player levelling/class mechanics from a single player elder scrolls to a multiplayer version. ofcourse some modifications need to be made .eg. set caps on certain skills, limit the max number of spells you can have, rebalance perk trees etc. scrapping a potentially awesome system that gives lots of freedom with WOW style fixed classses is stupid.
didnt expect fanbois to come out so soon. ussually they wait until closer to release.
i mean seriously OP are you kidding me?
this is what you are saying
-skyrim has unbalanced class system . best solution: replace with wow style class system
-skyrim combat is too hack and slash. best solution: replace with wow style tab target 3rd person combat
im sorry but 1st person perspective made elder scrolls great. the open class system made elder scrolls great (after it was fixed with mods).
you are not meant to play a character so long that you max all the skills. that was the intention of the developers. balance was never bethesda forte, it doesnt mean all their unique mechanics should be replaced with WOW mechanics.
YOU are what is WRONG with the industry. you support any piece of crap, you jump to its defense. this is why mmorpgs suck.
Skyrims system simply would flat out not work in MMO setting,
Why do some of you keep saying this?
There are MMO's that use FPS combat, as well as action combat like TERA and DCUO, and it works.
Just because you prefer something else, doesn't mean it won't work, it means you prefer something else.
And why do you need to drop the Fbomb? Cursing doesn't make you sound smarter, nor does it make what you write true.
dcuo has hotbar combat really - it just hides it well
didnt expect fanbois to come out so soon. ussually they wait until closer to release.
i mean seriously OP are you kidding me?
this is what you are saying
-skyrim has unbalanced class system . best solution: replace with wow style class system
-skyrim combat is too hack and slash. best solution: replace with wow style tab target 3rd person combat
im sorry but 1st person perspective made elder scrolls great. the open class system made elder scrolls great (after it was fixed with mods).
you are not meant to play a character so long that you max all the skills. that was the intention of the developers. balance was never bethesda forte, it doesnt mean all their unique mechanics should be replaced with WOW mechanics.
YOU are what is WRONG with the industry. you support any piece of crap, you jump to its defense. this is why mmorpgs suck.
In a single player game, were content is supposed to be dynamically scaling to the player, and you play the god like hero, balance isn't required.
Not to mention how odd it is for someone to complain about the combat is skyrim not being good, and claiming to have maxed every skill in the game. I've never maxed every skill in any of them, and I played them for hundreds of hours. If you're putting that much time into playing something that you can max everything, you obviously enjoyed.
Nobody sinks that much time into somethig they think sucked. I'd have to call BS, they either liked it, or they never got every skill to 100 and one shot a dragon.
You're confusing the fact that Skyrim had a shitty combat system with Skyrim sucking as a game...
Which tells me you didn't read my original post, where i said Skyrim being a great game had nothing to do with the fact its combat system was ass.... That's not what made it a great game..
Unless you somehow think Skyrim was absolutely perfect in every way, and had zero flaws, in which case, Get in the line with the Star Wars jack asses who are pissed Vaders yell is to long or whatever useless bullshit they came up with this week.
No, I just think that anyone that says that they played something that sucked for so long that they were able to level every skill in the game to 100 has got to either be lieing or trolling.
I see 6 pages of posts, and only one guy saying it sucked. Not to be a sheep or anything, but bah.
didnt expect fanbois to come out so soon. ussually they wait until closer to release.
i mean seriously OP are you kidding me?
this is what you are saying
-skyrim has unbalanced class system . best solution: replace with wow style class system
-skyrim combat is too hack and slash. best solution: replace with wow style tab target 3rd person combat
im sorry but 1st person perspective made elder scrolls great. the open class system made elder scrolls great (after it was fixed with mods).
you are not meant to play a character so long that you max all the skills. that was the intention of the developers. balance was never bethesda forte, it doesnt mean all their unique mechanics should be replaced with WOW mechanics.
YOU are what is WRONG with the industry. you support any piece of crap, you jump to its defense. this is why mmorpgs suck.
In a single player game, were content is supposed to be dynamically scaling to the player, and you play the god like hero, balance isn't required.
Not to mention how odd it is for someone to complain about the combat is skyrim not being good, and claiming to have maxed every skill in the game. I've never maxed every skill in any of them, and I played them for hundreds of hours. If you're putting that much time into playing something that you can max everything, you obviously enjoyed.
Nobody sinks that much time into somethig they think sucked. I'd have to call BS, they either liked it, or they never got every skill to 100 and one shot a dragon.
You're confusing the fact that Skyrim had a shitty combat system with Skyrim sucking as a game...
Which tells me you didn't read my original post, where i said Skyrim being a great game had nothing to do with the fact its combat system was ass.... That's not what made it a great game..
Unless you somehow think Skyrim was absolutely perfect in every way, and had zero flaws, in which case, Get in the line with the Star Wars jack asses who are pissed Vaders yell is to long or whatever useless bullshit they came up with this week.
No, I just think that anyone that says that they played something that sucked for so long that they were able to level every skill in the game to 100 has got to either be lieing or trolling.
I see 6 pages of posts, and only one guy saying it sucked. Not to be a sheep or anything, but bah.
You clearly have never actually read any thread what so ever on the Bethesda Forums.
and again, you're confusing having a shitty combat system with having a shitty game. I don't consider Legend of Grimrock to have the pinacle of combat systems in gaming history, But that doesn't mean it's not an amazing game.
From what we do know, I'm not buying it. Sounds way too similar to everything else out, and I'm tired of the typical MMO. They had a chance to make something unique but they are choosing to go the clone route.
didnt expect fanbois to come out so soon. ussually they wait until closer to release.
i mean seriously OP are you kidding me?
this is what you are saying
-skyrim has unbalanced class system . best solution: replace with wow style class system
-skyrim combat is too hack and slash. best solution: replace with wow style tab target 3rd person combat
im sorry but 1st person perspective made elder scrolls great. the open class system made elder scrolls great (after it was fixed with mods).
you are not meant to play a character so long that you max all the skills. that was the intention of the developers. balance was never bethesda forte, it doesnt mean all their unique mechanics should be replaced with WOW mechanics.
YOU are what is WRONG with the industry. you support any piece of crap, you jump to its defense. this is why mmorpgs suck.
Skyrims system simply would flat out not work in MMO setting,
Why do some of you keep saying this?
There are MMO's that use FPS combat, as well as action combat like TERA and DCUO, and it works.
Just because you prefer something else, doesn't mean it won't work, it means you prefer something else.
And why do you need to drop the Fbomb? Cursing doesn't make you sound smarter, nor does it make what you write true.
dcuo has hotbar combat really - it just hides it well
When did I say anything about hotbar combat in what you quoted?
I said action combat. Or active combat. You know, were you put together combos, block and dodge. The hotbar was just one aspect of it, it didn't change what it was though.
Or to simplify the point. Latency is as much an issue in action combat as it is in FPS. You can't say it doesn't work, or isn't doable when there are MMO's using those styles of combat, and have been for many years.
Do you know what the first MMO was? Not muds, here's a hint, it came out before UO, and it guess what kind of combat it used.
It was doable 17 years ago, but some of you think you're going to convince people that you can't do FPS combat in an MMO today? You're kidding right?
no one here is saying that ESO should have EXACTLY the same systems skryim. im sorry but your arguments are pointless because you are argueing against a point that was never made.
what we would like to see:
- a class system that allows freedom, you make your own class.
- non tab target combat (preferably 1st person). i want to feel connected to the character like i do when im playing skyrim
honestly i dont think you have played any other elder scrolls other than skryim. all im hearing is skryim is suck blaahh i played it so long i maxed all my skill blahh derp.
also: i cannot beleive you are trying to argue that tab target and non targetting combat is exactly the same because "You face them, and Run near them and attack... ". have you bothered considering that maybe people will try to avoid your attack (durrrrrrrrrrrrrr). have you ever played a first person shooter or any multiplayer action game? are you going to tell me all you do in a FPS game is face someone run near them and attack? ridiculous... most fps games have combat that is 20x as deep, difficult to master and complicated that any tab target game has. A non target game can have everything a tab target game has plus the complexity that comes with having to aim and doge and move.
Soul enchant your bow with 1 second soul steal (So it has an assload of charges), Buy up every Soul Gem ya can, Go shoot random shit with your bow, Go enchant stuff till ya get 100 Enchanting.
Enchant your crap so you make 2 Lines (you'll need separate armor sets for this) of magic not cost anything. Do Random Spells at no cost till you get 100 in those Lines, with Destruction being the Hardest, Unless you have the Dark Brotherhood line complete then you just shoot lightning and heal one of your Torture Victims will 100 in those lines.
Max alchemy, best way is to make those healing potions with Giant Toes (which ya get from going around and one shotting Giants with your Bow since you've used Blacksmithing and Enchanting to make some really powerful items, You can then use alchemy to do it even more, For example, I have 2 Blades Swords that delve for 522 a piece)
Raise Sneak walking in a wall in place next to sleeping people (or just raise it normally since you sneak pretty much entirely through the game)
Swing shitty 1 handers/2 handers at your Nightmare horse that never dies...
Stand in place letting a Monster beat on ya while you have your Shield out.
Talk to the one NPC in that Riften Shop that basically raises your Speak skill to 100%
didnt expect fanbois to come out so soon. ussually they wait until closer to release.
i mean seriously OP are you kidding me?
this is what you are saying
-skyrim has unbalanced class system . best solution: replace with wow style class system
-skyrim combat is too hack and slash. best solution: replace with wow style tab target 3rd person combat
im sorry but 1st person perspective made elder scrolls great. the open class system made elder scrolls great (after it was fixed with mods).
you are not meant to play a character so long that you max all the skills. that was the intention of the developers. balance was never bethesda forte, it doesnt mean all their unique mechanics should be replaced with WOW mechanics.
YOU are what is WRONG with the industry. you support any piece of crap, you jump to its defense. this is why mmorpgs suck.
Skyrims system simply would flat out not work in MMO setting,
Why do some of you keep saying this?
There are MMO's that use FPS combat, as well as action combat like TERA and DCUO, and it works.
Just because you prefer something else, doesn't mean it won't work, it means you prefer something else.
And why do you need to drop the Fbomb? Cursing doesn't make you sound smarter, nor does it make what you write true.
dcuo has hotbar combat really - it just hides it well
When did I say anything about hotbar combat in what you quoted?
I said action combat. Or active combat. You know, were you put together combos, block and dodge. The hotbar was just one aspect of it, it didn't change what it was though.
Or to simplify the point. Latency is as much an issue in action combat as it is in FPS. You can't say it doesn't work, or isn't doable when there are MMO's using those styles of combat, and have been for many years.
Do you know what the first MMO was? Not muds, here's a hint, it came out before UO, and it guess what kind of combat it used.
It was doable 17 years ago, but some of you think you're going to convince people that you can't do FPS combat in an MMO today? You're kidding right?
"Stamina will be the central pillar of combat. It governs blocking, sprinting, interrupting and breaking free of incapacitating effects (roots, snares, stuns, etc.). All classes and weapon types will be able to block with varying success. And how you manage your stamina bar will be a key tactical consideration."
Soul enchant your bow with 1 second soul steal (So it has an assload of charges), Buy up every Soul Gem ya can, Go shoot random shit with your bow, Go enchant stuff till ya get 100 Enchanting.
Enchant your crap so you make 2 Lines (you'll need separate armor sets for this) of magic not cost anything. Do Random Spells at no cost till you get 100 in those Lines, with Destruction being the Hardest, Unless you have the Dark Brotherhood line complete then you just shoot lightning and heal one of your Torture Victims will 100 in those lines.
Max alchemy, best way is to make those healing potions with Giant Toes (which ya get from going around and one shotting Giants with your Bow since you've used Blacksmithing and Enchanting to make some really powerful items, You can then use alchemy to do it even more, For example, I have 2 Blades Swords that delve for 522 a piece)
Raise Sneak walking in a wall in place next to sleeping people (or just raise it normally since you sneak pretty much entirely through the game)
Swing shitty 1 handers/2 handers at your Nightmare horse that never dies...
Stand in place letting a Monster beat on ya while you have your Shield out.
Talk to the one NPC in that Riften Shop that basically raises your Speak skill to 100%
The absolute most annoying skill to get to 100?
Pickpocketing.
well thats what happens when you min max in a single player rpg that is notorious for its poor balance. i dont know why you keep making this point... no one here said that we ESO should have exactly the same leveling/class system as skyrim.....
we are just pissed off that the game is going to have wow class system and levelling rather than something more free form and elder scrolls like
Soul enchant your bow with 1 second soul steal (So it has an assload of charges), Buy up every Soul Gem ya can, Go shoot random shit with your bow, Go enchant stuff till ya get 100 Enchanting.
Enchant your crap so you make 2 Lines (you'll need separate armor sets for this) of magic not cost anything. Do Random Spells at no cost till you get 100 in those Lines, with Destruction being the Hardest, Unless you have the Dark Brotherhood line complete then you just shoot lightning and heal one of your Torture Victims will 100 in those lines.
Max alchemy, best way is to make those healing potions with Giant Toes (which ya get from going around and one shotting Giants with your Bow since you've used Blacksmithing and Enchanting to make some really powerful items, You can then use alchemy to do it even more, For example, I have 2 Blades Swords that delve for 522 a piece)
Raise Sneak walking in a wall in place next to sleeping people (or just raise it normally since you sneak pretty much entirely through the game)
Swing shitty 1 handers/2 handers at your Nightmare horse that never dies...
Stand in place letting a Monster beat on ya while you have your Shield out.
Talk to the one NPC in that Riften Shop that basically raises your Speak skill to 100%
The absolute most annoying skill to get to 100?
Pickpocketing.
LOL, you are so right, i know its a cheat but it works.
I really can't believe "combat" the sticking point of this argument. It's always been the worst part of Elder Scroll. I can't figure out how they can't get collision detection right after 15 years. I sometime still kill innocents simply cause the targeting is always off. So yeah, until an RPG can show me decent non-tab targeting i'm good on that level. I was very fine with Dragon Age.
This game's failure will really set the stage for the inevitable release of an Alamur MMO.
I gree, the problem is that they havn't announced anything that is innovative in connection with elder scroll. If you are going to throw elder scroll the article needs to really take a strong feature of elder scrolls (going where ever you want, a wide open customizable class system) and sell it.
didnt expect fanbois to come out so soon. ussually they wait until closer to release.
i mean seriously OP are you kidding me?
this is what you are saying
-skyrim has unbalanced class system . best solution: replace with wow style class system
-skyrim combat is too hack and slash. best solution: replace with wow style tab target 3rd person combat
im sorry but 1st person perspective made elder scrolls great. the open class system made elder scrolls great (after it was fixed with mods).
you are not meant to play a character so long that you max all the skills. that was the intention of the developers. balance was never bethesda forte, it doesnt mean all their unique mechanics should be replaced with WOW mechanics.
YOU are what is WRONG with the industry. you support any piece of crap, you jump to its defense. this is why mmorpgs suck.
Skyrims system simply would flat out not work in MMO setting,
Why do some of you keep saying this?
There are MMO's that use FPS combat, as well as action combat like TERA and DCUO, and it works.
Just because you prefer something else, doesn't mean it won't work, it means you prefer something else.
And why do you need to drop the Fbomb? Cursing doesn't make you sound smarter, nor does it make what you write true.
dcuo has hotbar combat really - it just hides it well
When did I say anything about hotbar combat in what you quoted?
I said action combat. Or active combat. You know, were you put together combos, block and dodge. The hotbar was just one aspect of it, it didn't change what it was though.
Or to simplify the point. Latency is as much an issue in action combat as it is in FPS. You can't say it doesn't work, or isn't doable when there are MMO's using those styles of combat, and have been for many years.
Do you know what the first MMO was? Not muds, here's a hint, it came out before UO, and it guess what kind of combat it used.
It was doable 17 years ago, but some of you think you're going to convince people that you can't do FPS combat in an MMO today? You're kidding right?
"Stamina will be the central pillar of combat. It governs blocking, sprinting, interrupting and breaking free of incapacitating effects (roots, snares, stuns, etc.). All classes and weapon types will be able to block with varying success. And how you manage your stamina bar will be a key tactical consideration."
*grin*
sorry but not everyone here is as stupid as you. we arent easily impressed by renamed mana bars.
Soul enchant your bow with 1 second soul steal (So it has an assload of charges), Buy up every Soul Gem ya can, Go shoot random shit with your bow, Go enchant stuff till ya get 100 Enchanting.
Enchant your crap so you make 2 Lines (you'll need separate armor sets for this) of magic not cost anything. Do Random Spells at no cost till you get 100 in those Lines, with Destruction being the Hardest, Unless you have the Dark Brotherhood line complete then you just shoot lightning and heal one of your Torture Victims will 100 in those lines.
Max alchemy, best way is to make those healing potions with Giant Toes (which ya get from going around and one shotting Giants with your Bow since you've used Blacksmithing and Enchanting to make some really powerful items, You can then use alchemy to do it even more, For example, I have 2 Blades Swords that delve for 522 a piece)
Raise Sneak walking in a wall in place next to sleeping people (or just raise it normally since you sneak pretty much entirely through the game)
Swing shitty 1 handers/2 handers at your Nightmare horse that never dies...
Stand in place letting a Monster beat on ya while you have your Shield out.
Talk to the one NPC in that Riften Shop that basically raises your Speak skill to 100%
The absolute most annoying skill to get to 100?
Pickpocketing.
You're going off topic in your own thread, brilliant. We don't need the ability to max every skill, that's what Darkfall did and everyone was the same in the end. A skill based system with skill caps, like UO, hasn't been done in a while. Would it be harder? No doubt, but that's where the fun of customizing your character comes in.
no one here is saying that ESO should have EXACTLY the same systems skryim. im sorry but your arguments are pointless because you are argueing against a point that was never made.
what we would like to see:
- a class system that allows freedom, you make your own class.
- non tab target combat (preferably 1st person). i want to feel connected to the character like i do when im playing skyrim
honestly i dont think you have played any other elder scrolls other than skryim. all im hearing is skryim is suck blaahh i played it so long i maxed all my skill blahh derp.
also: i cannot beleive you are trying to argue that tab target and non targetting combat is exactly the same because "You face them, and Run near them and attack... ". have you bothered considering that maybe people will try to avoid your attack (durrrrrrrrrrrrrr). have you ever played a first person shooter or any multiplayer action game? are you going to tell me all you do in a FPS game is face someone run near them and attack? ridiculous... most fps games have combat that is 20x as deep, difficult to master and complicated that any tab target game has. A non target game can have everything a tab target game has plus the complexity that comes with having to aim and doge and move.
A. Making your own class would result in Overpowered Specs that would be a Standard Class, UO had "make your own class" and it still resulted in certain setups being the specific setup everyone used. In fact UO eventually fleshed out their Skill system to include skills to make people who chose more "Class" based character setups better, such as hiding, and stealth for rogues. As for most FPS having combat 20x deep and difficult to master then any tab targetting game? DAOC's Combat system is vastly superior to damn near every FPS on the market. FPS combat is not even remotely deep. It's simply Point and Shoot at the target and based on mechanics of the system (does shooting rapidly throw off your shots) or Do certain things arc (Arrows) for example. That is not Deep....Active Blocking/Dodging ect ect, are actually things that MMO's have actually chosen to pickup over the years, and guess what, You don't see that in most FPS.
In fact take Counter Strike for example, how do you dodge attacks in Counter Strike, You don't.. you hide behind something, and hopefully you have better aim then the person you're shooting at.
Tab Targetting in itself is not related to the mechanics of Dodge/Block (See Champion Online)
didnt expect fanbois to come out so soon. ussually they wait until closer to release.
i mean seriously OP are you kidding me?
this is what you are saying
-skyrim has unbalanced class system . best solution: replace with wow style class system
-skyrim combat is too hack and slash. best solution: replace with wow style tab target 3rd person combat
im sorry but 1st person perspective made elder scrolls great. the open class system made elder scrolls great (after it was fixed with mods).
you are not meant to play a character so long that you max all the skills. that was the intention of the developers. balance was never bethesda forte, it doesnt mean all their unique mechanics should be replaced with WOW mechanics.
YOU are what is WRONG with the industry. you support any piece of crap, you jump to its defense. this is why mmorpgs suck.
Skyrims system simply would flat out not work in MMO setting,
Why do some of you keep saying this?
There are MMO's that use FPS combat, as well as action combat like TERA and DCUO, and it works.
Just because you prefer something else, doesn't mean it won't work, it means you prefer something else.
And why do you need to drop the Fbomb? Cursing doesn't make you sound smarter, nor does it make what you write true.
dcuo has hotbar combat really - it just hides it well
When did I say anything about hotbar combat in what you quoted?
I said action combat. Or active combat. You know, were you put together combos, block and dodge. The hotbar was just one aspect of it, it didn't change what it was though.
Or to simplify the point. Latency is as much an issue in action combat as it is in FPS. You can't say it doesn't work, or isn't doable when there are MMO's using those styles of combat, and have been for many years.
Do you know what the first MMO was? Not muds, here's a hint, it came out before UO, and it guess what kind of combat it used.
It was doable 17 years ago, but some of you think you're going to convince people that you can't do FPS combat in an MMO today? You're kidding right?
"Stamina will be the central pillar of combat. It governs blocking, sprinting, interrupting and breaking free of incapacitating effects (roots, snares, stuns, etc.). All classes and weapon types will be able to block with varying success. And how you manage your stamina bar will be a key tactical consideration."
*grin*
sorry but not everyone here is as stupid as you. we arent easily impressed by renamed mana bars.
Yes, because WoW is famous for its Mages using their mana while blocking/sprinting and breaking of CC effects...
This of course assumes as well that Mages don't actually have a mana bar in ESO, and instead use Stamina Entirely.
Course we don't know that.. because that information hasn't been released... *grin*
Old UO had OP specs, that's true. Nowadays viable templates are rather numerous and allow for tweaking to cater to a certain playstyle. UO is also ancient.
Soul enchant your bow with 1 second soul steal (So it has an assload of charges), Buy up every Soul Gem ya can, Go shoot random shit with your bow, Go enchant stuff till ya get 100 Enchanting.
Enchant your crap so you make 2 Lines (you'll need separate armor sets for this) of magic not cost anything. Do Random Spells at no cost till you get 100 in those Lines, with Destruction being the Hardest, Unless you have the Dark Brotherhood line complete then you just shoot lightning and heal one of your Torture Victims will 100 in those lines.
Max alchemy, best way is to make those healing potions with Giant Toes (which ya get from going around and one shotting Giants with your Bow since you've used Blacksmithing and Enchanting to make some really powerful items, You can then use alchemy to do it even more, For example, I have 2 Blades Swords that delve for 522 a piece)
Raise Sneak walking in a wall in place next to sleeping people (or just raise it normally since you sneak pretty much entirely through the game)
Swing shitty 1 handers/2 handers at your Nightmare horse that never dies...
Stand in place letting a Monster beat on ya while you have your Shield out.
Talk to the one NPC in that Riften Shop that basically raises your Speak skill to 100%
The absolute most annoying skill to get to 100?
Pickpocketing.
You're going off topic in your own thread, brilliant. We don't need the ability to max every skill, that's what Darkfall did and everyone was the same in the end. A skill based system with skill caps, like UO, hasn't been done in a while. Would it be harder? No doubt, but that's where the fun of customizing your character comes in.
Because a Skill based system and character Customizing are not exactly reliant on one another.
The Game with the greatest character customization on the market currently isn't UO or Darkfall, or even Skyrim.
Because a Skill based system and character Customizing are not exactly reliant on one another.
The Game with the greatest character customization on the market currently isn't UO or Darkfall, or even Skyrim.
It's called Rift.
Rift is a relatively new game and UO is ancient, so that's a given. However, UO customization is pretty damn extensive now. Like I said above, viable templates are rather numerous.
no one here is saying that ESO should have EXACTLY the same systems skryim. im sorry but your arguments are pointless because you are argueing against a point that was never made.
what we would like to see:
- a class system that allows freedom, you make your own class.
- non tab target combat (preferably 1st person). i want to feel connected to the character like i do when im playing skyrim
honestly i dont think you have played any other elder scrolls other than skryim. all im hearing is skryim is suck blaahh i played it so long i maxed all my skill blahh derp.
also: i cannot beleive you are trying to argue that tab target and non targetting combat is exactly the same because "You face them, and Run near them and attack... ". have you bothered considering that maybe people will try to avoid your attack (durrrrrrrrrrrrrr). have you ever played a first person shooter or any multiplayer action game? are you going to tell me all you do in a FPS game is face someone run near them and attack? ridiculous... most fps games have combat that is 20x as deep, difficult to master and complicated that any tab target game has. A non target game can have everything a tab target game has plus the complexity that comes with having to aim and doge and move.
A. Making your own class would result in Overpowered Specs that would be a Standard Class, UO had "make your own class" and it still resulted in certain setups being the specific setup everyone used. In fact UO eventually fleshed out their Skill system to include skills to make people who chose more "Class" based character setups better, such as hiding, and stealth for rogues. As for most FPS having combat 20x deep and difficult to master then any tab targetting game? DAOC's Combat system is vastly superior to damn near every FPS on the market. FPS combat is not even remotely deep. It's simply Point and Shoot at the target and based on mechanics of the system (does shooting rapidly throw off your shots) or Do certain things arc (Arrows) for example. That is not Deep....Active Blocking/Dodging ect ect, are actually things that MMO's have actually chosen to pickup over the years, and guess what, You don't see that in most FPS.
In fact take Counter Strike for example, how do you dodge attacks in Counter Strike, You don't.. you hide behind something, and hopefully you have better aim then the person you're shooting at.
Tab Targetting in itself is not related to the mechanics of Dodge/Block (See Champion Online)
you have overpowered specs in wow style class systems as well... one who sacrfices freedom for a small chance of balance deserves neither freedom or balance.
make an account and play 1v1 PvP. see if you can get a kill, let alone win a match. its just point and shoot right? you should have no problem.
quake 3 is played as an esport for a reason. its because it is complex and has a huge skill cap. you need excellent memory, hand eye coordination, reflexes, knowledge and strategy. plonk me in any mmorpg against equal level/gear opponents and i will be pwning in 2-3 hours.
Originally posted by Xsorus That is pretty much what i've been reading on this forum for the past hour. I mean bloody hell, some of the stuff posted is just silly.. "It's not elder scross cause it has tab targeting!!!" Cause ya know, the first thing I think of when I think of Elder scrolls is "No tab targeting" "It's 3rd Person, therefor it sucks!!!" nevermind all the Elder Scrolls games had 3rd Person view, (and pretty much every MMO today has 1st person view, only no one uses it because it blows ass) Here's a kicker "It uses a toolbar like WoW, and isn't real time combat" Because ya know that Skyrim is renowned for its amazing melee combat which consisted of me swinging my sword like i'm hacking a fucking bush to death. "It has a class based system" Cause we know the actual Elder Scrolls system would work better, Where I've got 100 in every single skill on my character, and my guy one shots freakin dragons.
None of these things made Skyrim great, or any Elder Scroll game great.... These are in general just mechanics of the game that frankly were not exactly the most amazing mechanics ever. I personally don't look at Skyrim and think "Wow that game has the best combat ever, screw tab targetting" I can sum up what Made Skyrim great with one example.. The first town you get to in Skyrim, when ya start heading up that mountain and you came to that Dungeon with the bandits outside, That is what made skyrim right there.. It was the world, and the setting... Not shitty skill systems, melee combat, or 1st person/3rd person, It was the sense of vastness that looking out over a mountain gave you. If they can accomplish that even remotely in this game, They will do fine, if not.. Who cares, you still have single player games you worthless nuggets of stupid.
If im going to buy and Elder scrolls product, i better damn well get all the features that make those games unique.
Its like watching a starwars movie but they have replaced the sabers with Nerf bats.
TSW - AoC - Aion - WOW - EVE - Fallen Earth - Co - Rift - || XNA C# Java Development
no one here is saying that ESO should have EXACTLY the same systems skryim. im sorry but your arguments are pointless because you are argueing against a point that was never made.
what we would like to see:
- a class system that allows freedom, you make your own class.
- non tab target combat (preferably 1st person). i want to feel connected to the character like i do when im playing skyrim
honestly i dont think you have played any other elder scrolls other than skryim. all im hearing is skryim is suck blaahh i played it so long i maxed all my skill blahh derp.
also: i cannot beleive you are trying to argue that tab target and non targetting combat is exactly the same because "You face them, and Run near them and attack... ". have you bothered considering that maybe people will try to avoid your attack (durrrrrrrrrrrrrr). have you ever played a first person shooter or any multiplayer action game? are you going to tell me all you do in a FPS game is face someone run near them and attack? ridiculous... most fps games have combat that is 20x as deep, difficult to master and complicated that any tab target game has. A non target game can have everything a tab target game has plus the complexity that comes with having to aim and doge and move.
A. Making your own class would result in Overpowered Specs that would be a Standard Class, UO had "make your own class" and it still resulted in certain setups being the specific setup everyone used. In fact UO eventually fleshed out their Skill system to include skills to make people who chose more "Class" based character setups better, such as hiding, and stealth for rogues. As for most FPS having combat 20x deep and difficult to master then any tab targetting game? DAOC's Combat system is vastly superior to damn near every FPS on the market. FPS combat is not even remotely deep. It's simply Point and Shoot at the target and based on mechanics of the system (does shooting rapidly throw off your shots) or Do certain things arc (Arrows) for example. That is not Deep....Active Blocking/Dodging ect ect, are actually things that MMO's have actually chosen to pickup over the years, and guess what, You don't see that in most FPS.
In fact take Counter Strike for example, how do you dodge attacks in Counter Strike, You don't.. you hide behind something, and hopefully you have better aim then the person you're shooting at.
Tab Targetting in itself is not related to the mechanics of Dodge/Block (See Champion Online)
Old UO had OP specs, that's true. Nowadays viable templates are rather numerous and allow for tweaking to cater to a certain playstyle. UO is also ancient.
UO had classes, Your class was entirely based on what skills you picked up.
That is basically a Rogue class, now you did end up with Tank Mages at the start of the game (Think Hybrid in most other games) but over time OSI basically fleshed out the skill system to include things like Anatomy for Warriors) So those who focused on pure things ended up basically being Warrior/Rogue/Mage/Tamer for example.
no one here is saying that ESO should have EXACTLY the same systems skryim. im sorry but your arguments are pointless because you are argueing against a point that was never made.
what we would like to see:
- a class system that allows freedom, you make your own class.
- non tab target combat (preferably 1st person). i want to feel connected to the character like i do when im playing skyrim
honestly i dont think you have played any other elder scrolls other than skryim. all im hearing is skryim is suck blaahh i played it so long i maxed all my skill blahh derp.
also: i cannot beleive you are trying to argue that tab target and non targetting combat is exactly the same because "You face them, and Run near them and attack... ". have you bothered considering that maybe people will try to avoid your attack (durrrrrrrrrrrrrr). have you ever played a first person shooter or any multiplayer action game? are you going to tell me all you do in a FPS game is face someone run near them and attack? ridiculous... most fps games have combat that is 20x as deep, difficult to master and complicated that any tab target game has. A non target game can have everything a tab target game has plus the complexity that comes with having to aim and doge and move.
A. Making your own class would result in Overpowered Specs that would be a Standard Class, UO had "make your own class" and it still resulted in certain setups being the specific setup everyone used. In fact UO eventually fleshed out their Skill system to include skills to make people who chose more "Class" based character setups better, such as hiding, and stealth for rogues. As for most FPS having combat 20x deep and difficult to master then any tab targetting game? DAOC's Combat system is vastly superior to damn near every FPS on the market. FPS combat is not even remotely deep. It's simply Point and Shoot at the target and based on mechanics of the system (does shooting rapidly throw off your shots) or Do certain things arc (Arrows) for example. That is not Deep....Active Blocking/Dodging ect ect, are actually things that MMO's have actually chosen to pickup over the years, and guess what, You don't see that in most FPS.
In fact take Counter Strike for example, how do you dodge attacks in Counter Strike, You don't.. you hide behind something, and hopefully you have better aim then the person you're shooting at.
Tab Targetting in itself is not related to the mechanics of Dodge/Block (See Champion Online)
you have overpowered specs in wow style class systems as well... one who sacrfices freedom for a small chance of balance deserves neither freedom or balance.
make an account and play 1v1 PvP. see if you can get a kill, let alone win a match. its just point and shoot, you should have no problem.
it is just point and shoot, Your aim is a factor but aim in itself does not make it a deep combat system.
For example, hitting a baseball, I can hit a baseball all day long, Some people can do it better and knock it out the park, But hitting a baseball is neither deep, or skillful.
it's when ya add the othe elements of the game does it because something of skill.
That is pretty much what i've been reading on this forum for the past hour.
I mean bloody hell, some of the stuff posted is just silly..
"It's not elder scross cause it has tab targeting!!!"
Cause ya know, the first thing I think of when I think of Elder scrolls is "No tab targeting"
"It's 3rd Person, therefor it sucks!!!" nevermind all the Elder Scrolls games had 3rd Person view, (and pretty much every MMO today has 1st person view, only no one uses it because it blows ass)
Here's a kicker "It uses a toolbar like WoW, and isn't real time combat"
Because ya know that Skyrim is renowned for its amazing melee combat which consisted of me swinging my sword like i'm hacking a fucking bush to death.
"It has a class based system"
Cause we know the actual Elder Scrolls system would work better, Where I've got 100 in every single skill on my character, and my guy one shots freakin dragons.
None of these things made Skyrim great, or any Elder Scroll game great.... These are in general just mechanics of the game that frankly were not exactly the most amazing mechanics ever. I personally don't look at Skyrim and think "Wow that game has the best combat ever, screw tab targetting"
I can sum up what Made Skyrim great with one example..
The first town you get to in Skyrim, when ya start heading up that mountain and you came to that Dungeon with the bandits outside, That is what made skyrim right there..
It was the world, and the setting... Not shitty skill systems, melee combat, or 1st person/3rd person, It was the sense of vastness that looking out over a mountain gave you.
If they can accomplish that even remotely in this game, They will do fine, if not.. Who cares, you still have single player games you worthless nuggets of stupid.
If im going to buy and Elder scrolls product, i better damn well get all the features that make those games unique.
Its like watching a starwars movie but they have replaced the sabers with Nerf bats.
So you want a shitty combat system that has nothing in relation to why the game is good?
no one here is saying that ESO should have EXACTLY the same systems skryim. im sorry but your arguments are pointless because you are argueing against a point that was never made.
what we would like to see:
- a class system that allows freedom, you make your own class.
- non tab target combat (preferably 1st person). i want to feel connected to the character like i do when im playing skyrim
honestly i dont think you have played any other elder scrolls other than skryim. all im hearing is skryim is suck blaahh i played it so long i maxed all my skill blahh derp.
also: i cannot beleive you are trying to argue that tab target and non targetting combat is exactly the same because "You face them, and Run near them and attack... ". have you bothered considering that maybe people will try to avoid your attack (durrrrrrrrrrrrrr). have you ever played a first person shooter or any multiplayer action game? are you going to tell me all you do in a FPS game is face someone run near them and attack? ridiculous... most fps games have combat that is 20x as deep, difficult to master and complicated that any tab target game has. A non target game can have everything a tab target game has plus the complexity that comes with having to aim and doge and move.
A. Making your own class would result in Overpowered Specs that would be a Standard Class, UO had "make your own class" and it still resulted in certain setups being the specific setup everyone used. In fact UO eventually fleshed out their Skill system to include skills to make people who chose more "Class" based character setups better, such as hiding, and stealth for rogues. As for most FPS having combat 20x deep and difficult to master then any tab targetting game? DAOC's Combat system is vastly superior to damn near every FPS on the market. FPS combat is not even remotely deep. It's simply Point and Shoot at the target and based on mechanics of the system (does shooting rapidly throw off your shots) or Do certain things arc (Arrows) for example. That is not Deep....Active Blocking/Dodging ect ect, are actually things that MMO's have actually chosen to pickup over the years, and guess what, You don't see that in most FPS.
In fact take Counter Strike for example, how do you dodge attacks in Counter Strike, You don't.. you hide behind something, and hopefully you have better aim then the person you're shooting at.
Tab Targetting in itself is not related to the mechanics of Dodge/Block (See Champion Online)
you have overpowered specs in wow style class systems as well... one who sacrfices freedom for a small chance of balance deserves neither freedom or balance.
make an account and play 1v1 PvP. see if you can get a kill, let alone win a match. its just point and shoot, you should have no problem.
it is just point and shoot, Your aim is a factor but aim in itself does not make it a deep combat system.
For example, hitting a baseball, I can hit a baseball all day long, Some people can do it better and knock it out the park, But hitting a baseball is neither deep, or skillful.
it's when ya add the othe elements of the game does it because something of skill.
Comments
Why do some of you keep saying this?
There are MMO's that use FPS combat, as well as action combat like TERA and DCUO, and it works.
Just because you prefer something else, doesn't mean it won't work, it means you prefer something else.
And why do you need to drop the Fbomb? Cursing doesn't make you sound smarter, nor does it make what you write true.
^this
no one here is saying that we should copy paste single player levelling/class mechanics from a single player elder scrolls to a multiplayer version. ofcourse some modifications need to be made .eg. set caps on certain skills, limit the max number of spells you can have, rebalance perk trees etc. scrapping a potentially awesome system that gives lots of freedom with WOW style fixed classses is stupid.
dcuo has hotbar combat really - it just hides it well
No, I just think that anyone that says that they played something that sucked for so long that they were able to level every skill in the game to 100 has got to either be lieing or trolling.
I see 6 pages of posts, and only one guy saying it sucked. Not to be a sheep or anything, but bah.
You clearly have never actually read any thread what so ever on the Bethesda Forums.
and again, you're confusing having a shitty combat system with having a shitty game. I don't consider Legend of Grimrock to have the pinacle of combat systems in gaming history, But that doesn't mean it's not an amazing game.
From what we do know, I'm not buying it. Sounds way too similar to everything else out, and I'm tired of the typical MMO. They had a chance to make something unique but they are choosing to go the clone route.
When did I say anything about hotbar combat in what you quoted?
I said action combat. Or active combat. You know, were you put together combos, block and dodge. The hotbar was just one aspect of it, it didn't change what it was though.
Or to simplify the point. Latency is as much an issue in action combat as it is in FPS. You can't say it doesn't work, or isn't doable when there are MMO's using those styles of combat, and have been for many years.
Do you know what the first MMO was? Not muds, here's a hint, it came out before UO, and it guess what kind of combat it used.
It was doable 17 years ago, but some of you think you're going to convince people that you can't do FPS combat in an MMO today? You're kidding right?
xsorus
no one here is saying that ESO should have EXACTLY the same systems skryim. im sorry but your arguments are pointless because you are argueing against a point that was never made.
what we would like to see:
- a class system that allows freedom, you make your own class.
- non tab target combat (preferably 1st person). i want to feel connected to the character like i do when im playing skyrim
honestly i dont think you have played any other elder scrolls other than skryim. all im hearing is skryim is suck blaahh i played it so long i maxed all my skill blahh derp.
also: i cannot beleive you are trying to argue that tab target and non targetting combat is exactly the same because "You face them, and Run near them and attack... ". have you bothered considering that maybe people will try to avoid your attack (durrrrrrrrrrrrrr). have you ever played a first person shooter or any multiplayer action game? are you going to tell me all you do in a FPS game is face someone run near them and attack? ridiculous... most fps games have combat that is 20x as deep, difficult to master and complicated that any tab target game has. A non target game can have everything a tab target game has plus the complexity that comes with having to aim and doge and move.
[Mod Edit]
Really?
Here is how ya get 100 in every skill in Skyrim.
Make iron Daggers to 100 Blacksmithing
Soul enchant your bow with 1 second soul steal (So it has an assload of charges), Buy up every Soul Gem ya can, Go shoot random shit with your bow, Go enchant stuff till ya get 100 Enchanting.
Enchant your crap so you make 2 Lines (you'll need separate armor sets for this) of magic not cost anything. Do Random Spells at no cost till you get 100 in those Lines, with Destruction being the Hardest, Unless you have the Dark Brotherhood line complete then you just shoot lightning and heal one of your Torture Victims will 100 in those lines.
Max alchemy, best way is to make those healing potions with Giant Toes (which ya get from going around and one shotting Giants with your Bow since you've used Blacksmithing and Enchanting to make some really powerful items, You can then use alchemy to do it even more, For example, I have 2 Blades Swords that delve for 522 a piece)
Raise Sneak walking in a wall in place next to sleeping people (or just raise it normally since you sneak pretty much entirely through the game)
Swing shitty 1 handers/2 handers at your Nightmare horse that never dies...
Stand in place letting a Monster beat on ya while you have your Shield out.
Talk to the one NPC in that Riften Shop that basically raises your Speak skill to 100%
The absolute most annoying skill to get to 100?
Pickpocketing.
"Stamina will be the central pillar of combat. It governs blocking, sprinting, interrupting and breaking free of incapacitating effects (roots, snares, stuns, etc.). All classes and weapon types will be able to block with varying success. And how you manage your stamina bar will be a key tactical consideration."
*grin*
well thats what happens when you min max in a single player rpg that is notorious for its poor balance. i dont know why you keep making this point... no one here said that we ESO should have exactly the same leveling/class system as skyrim.....
we are just pissed off that the game is going to have wow class system and levelling rather than something more free form and elder scrolls like
LOL, you are so right, i know its a cheat but it works.
I really can't believe "combat" the sticking point of this argument. It's always been the worst part of Elder Scroll. I can't figure out how they can't get collision detection right after 15 years. I sometime still kill innocents simply cause the targeting is always off. So yeah, until an RPG can show me decent non-tab targeting i'm good on that level. I was very fine with Dragon Age.
This game's failure will really set the stage for the inevitable release of an Alamur MMO.
I gree, the problem is that they havn't announced anything that is innovative in connection with elder scroll. If you are going to throw elder scroll the article needs to really take a strong feature of elder scrolls (going where ever you want, a wide open customizable class system) and sell it.
For a major announcement, nothing was sold.
sorry but not everyone here is as stupid as you. we arent easily impressed by renamed mana bars.
You're going off topic in your own thread, brilliant. We don't need the ability to max every skill, that's what Darkfall did and everyone was the same in the end. A skill based system with skill caps, like UO, hasn't been done in a while. Would it be harder? No doubt, but that's where the fun of customizing your character comes in.
A. Making your own class would result in Overpowered Specs that would be a Standard Class, UO had "make your own class" and it still resulted in certain setups being the specific setup everyone used. In fact UO eventually fleshed out their Skill system to include skills to make people who chose more "Class" based character setups better, such as hiding, and stealth for rogues. As for most FPS having combat 20x deep and difficult to master then any tab targetting game? DAOC's Combat system is vastly superior to damn near every FPS on the market. FPS combat is not even remotely deep. It's simply Point and Shoot at the target and based on mechanics of the system (does shooting rapidly throw off your shots) or Do certain things arc (Arrows) for example. That is not Deep....Active Blocking/Dodging ect ect, are actually things that MMO's have actually chosen to pickup over the years, and guess what, You don't see that in most FPS.
In fact take Counter Strike for example, how do you dodge attacks in Counter Strike, You don't.. you hide behind something, and hopefully you have better aim then the person you're shooting at.
Tab Targetting in itself is not related to the mechanics of Dodge/Block (See Champion Online)
Yes, because WoW is famous for its Mages using their mana while blocking/sprinting and breaking of CC effects...
This of course assumes as well that Mages don't actually have a mana bar in ESO, and instead use Stamina Entirely.
Course we don't know that.. because that information hasn't been released... *grin*
Old UO had OP specs, that's true. Nowadays viable templates are rather numerous and allow for tweaking to cater to a certain playstyle. UO is also ancient.
Because a Skill based system and character Customizing are not exactly reliant on one another.
The Game with the greatest character customization on the market currently isn't UO or Darkfall, or even Skyrim.
It's called Rift.
Rift is a relatively new game and UO is ancient, so that's a given. However, UO customization is pretty damn extensive now. Like I said above, viable templates are rather numerous.
you have overpowered specs in wow style class systems as well... one who sacrfices freedom for a small chance of balance deserves neither freedom or balance.
go to this website
http://www.quakelive.com/#!home
make an account and play 1v1 PvP. see if you can get a kill, let alone win a match. its just point and shoot right? you should have no problem.
quake 3 is played as an esport for a reason. its because it is complex and has a huge skill cap. you need excellent memory, hand eye coordination, reflexes, knowledge and strategy. plonk me in any mmorpg against equal level/gear opponents and i will be pwning in 2-3 hours.
If im going to buy and Elder scrolls product, i better damn well get all the features that make those games unique.
Its like watching a starwars movie but they have replaced the sabers with Nerf bats.
TSW - AoC - Aion - WOW - EVE - Fallen Earth - Co - Rift - || XNA C# Java Development
UO had classes, Your class was entirely based on what skills you picked up.
For example, Rogue...
Snooping, hiding, fencing,Healing,Poisoning,Resist Spells, Stealing
That is basically a Rogue class, now you did end up with Tank Mages at the start of the game (Think Hybrid in most other games) but over time OSI basically fleshed out the skill system to include things like Anatomy for Warriors) So those who focused on pure things ended up basically being Warrior/Rogue/Mage/Tamer for example.
it is just point and shoot, Your aim is a factor but aim in itself does not make it a deep combat system.
For example, hitting a baseball, I can hit a baseball all day long, Some people can do it better and knock it out the park, But hitting a baseball is neither deep, or skillful.
it's when ya add the othe elements of the game does it because something of skill.
So you want a shitty combat system that has nothing in relation to why the game is good?
So you've never modded Elder Scrolls at all?
Now hitting a baseball takes no skill...?
*looks down and shakes head*