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Elder Scrolls Online: Every single feature of elder scrolls games removed. (article link)

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  • greyed-outgreyed-out Member Posts: 99

    Originally posted by adam_nox

    but wait it gets better:





    "Elder Scrolls Online" will feature raids and heroic mode for its dungeons



    TESO is a disappointment on many levels, but i'm not unhappy it has raids.  Am I the only gamer that still enjoys raiding?  Granted, I do not enjoy the dungeon/token grind, and I would evolve the raiding endgame significantly, but I stil would want it as part of my PvE endgame experience in an MMO.

  • ShakyMoShakyMo Member CommonPosts: 7,207
    Why will it be like swtor

    Is swtor a massive open world?
    Does swtor have a large scale 3 sided world pvp?
    Does swtor have no trinity?
    Does swtor have no agro mechanics?
    Does swtor have no quest hubs?
    Can you just go off exploring in swtor?
    Is the crafting in swtor important and complex?
    Does swtor have world raid bosses?
    Does swtor have open dungeons?

    I just don't get you guys.

    Now if you were comparing to daoc or gw2 you might have a point.
  • UhwopUhwop Member UncommonPosts: 1,791

    I don't understand why people keep saying that something like Skyrim wouldn't work as an MMO.

    Look at what's happening with MMO's that are coming out.  It's a bunch of FPS/ Action oriented games.  They all seem to be able to get around the "technology limitations".  Action oriented games like TERA, and DCUO are no diffierent then FPS ones like Planetside and Darkfall, and fighting isn't a problem in any of these games.

    Mortal online only has problems because it's wholey a work in progress, by a very small, inexperienced, underfunded, independant studio.  There wouldn't be the latency issues if it had 250 developers and the financial resources of Zenimax. 

    The skyrim combat system is more then doable, and would actually be the  best suited for an MMO of all the ES games.  This is one of my hesitations of believing the leak or any of the articles using information obtained from the leak.  

     

    Housing in oblivion and skyrim is done exactly the same way as it is in EQ2.  I can't beleive any comment that it wouldn't be possible to do housing the way fans would expect when you could use the exact same housing sytem SoE uses in EQ2 and ES fans wouldn't know the diffiernce.  The only difference is the presence of a server! 

     

    Crafting?  It's done in skyrim just like the magority of MMO's on the market. 

     

    NPC?  NPC"s in skyrim are basically asteroids in EVE.  I mine an asteroid, it's gone until the server reset the next morning.  I kill an NPC in skyrim it's gone until the game generates a new NPC to take it's place.  Skyrim replaces the NPC's.  Kill a farmer and another farmer may eventually take over the farm.  The only difference is that it may also trigger a side quest, and even that can be done in an MMO.  They alrady have triggers in MMO's based on something you may or may not have done at some point.  DCUO used them to have bad guys ambush you in the world if you followed some story archs, I pretty sure WoW did the same exact thing.  It's the same basic thing as happens in Skyrim, and more then possible to do in an ES MMO.  You can kill pretty much every NPC in WoW, they'll eventually respawn, just handle the respawning more creatively by having the NPC quest giver not be the same individual, and make the quest generic in such a way that it doesn't require the quest giver to be a specific individual.  Key NPC's can be made unkillable by simply making them to powerful to kill. 

     

    Dynamically generated dungeons?  City of Heroes has been doing this for how long now?  Especially when you start talking about solo dungeons being generated for quests, it's just a location you click and then get transfered to an instance.

     

    The only thing that I don't see as doable in an MMO is the Radiant AI, but even that can be overcome with a simpler version of the AI that would still have NPC"s going about doing things.

     

    Converting Skyrim to an MMO format is more then doable, saying otherwise is simply false.  There are very few things they would need to change about skyrim to account for having lots of people playing in the world.  And that's mostly the primary story.  You do not need to make a central storyline in an MMO that revolves around an individual being the god like hero, sent to save the world. 

     

    There is nothing in an ES game that hasn't been done in MMO's already.  From the character progression format, to the combat, crafting, dungeons, and housing.  Every gameplay element in skyrim has already been done in MMO's for many, many years now. 

    To say it wouldn't work in an MMO is BS, it's been working.

     

    Until I've read the article myself next month, or seen informatiion that is official, all the stuff being based on the leak is just a rumor, and could very well be someones idea of a joke.  It could very well be bethesdas idea of a joke, poking fun at thier own game by "leaking" information saying that it's going to be just like WoW ( did no one notice the number of times world of warcraft is mentioned in the leak?)  Bethesda is involved in the game, Tod howard is involved with the game; just because they formed a new branch within the company doesn't mean that much.  It really only means they did it for the sake of structuring.  It's easier in a multitude of ways for a company like Zenimax to create another division responsible for the online projects then it is to put those projects on an existing division that is already responsible for work they're doing.

     

    Zenimax media was started by the guy that founded bethesda.  The CEO of zenimax was installed by the guy that founded bethesda.  Zenimax as created for no other reason then as a means of structuring the company and raising money.  A lawyer, a former MLB player, and a bunch of guys from verious other media outlets, that's all zenimax is.  Weaver is the guy behind everything.  Weaver is bethesda, and bethesda is the publisher; there is no TESO without bethesda.  Bethesdas brand is stamped all over this project.

    At the end of the day, Weaver and Bethesda are responsible for all things Elder scrolls. 

    And you can not make an ES game, and state that you're giving the FANS of the ES games the MMO they've always wanted, and not make it like the ES games.  To do anything less then Morrowind threw Skyrim with an online component would not be giving the fans what they've always wanted.

    It's just rumors until real proof is shown. 

  • ColdrenColdren Member UncommonPosts: 495

    Originally posted by Uhwop

    [SNIP]

    They started this game back in 2007.

    .. Just pointing that out. It may have had more than a little impact on technological decisions.

    And personally, having played Darkfall.. No.. I don't need that kind of combat. DAoC 2 is just fine for me.

  • AxehiltAxehilt Member RarePosts: 10,504

    Originally posted by lizardbones



    I agree with Axehilt. However, I think the point still stands that the MMO they are writing seems to be a substantial departure from what the Elder Scrolls series is known for. It's not classes and the inability to have a house.

    Sure, and I'd agree with that.

    It's odd they didn't use it as an opportunity to differentiate themselves from other MMORPGs, given that that's what gamers want.

    "What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver

  • mmoguy43mmoguy43 Member UncommonPosts: 2,770

    Heard it before: SWTOR? I'd rather play KOTOR 3-10 instead

    Will hear it next: ESO? I'd rather play TES 6-10

  • XithrylXithryl Member UncommonPosts: 256

    Originally posted by Drakxii

    Originally posted by kingotnw

    How are people surprised by this? The Final Fantasy online games are certainly nothing like the offline versions, and there are a crap-ton more Final Fantasy games than there are Elder Scroll games. World of Warcraft is nothing like the original Warcraft games... It's going to be an MMORPG, it needs to play like one.

    But Final Fantasy and Warcraft games are vasty different then MMOs.

     

    In Final fantasy you follow a very set story with lots of cutscene.  Few chances to explore other then the "hidden" chest on every dungoen level.  

     

    Warcrafts were RTS.  Do I really need to explain why a MMORPG warcraft has to play different then an RTS one? 

     

    But Elder scrolls games are RPGs where you use skill based leveling to explore huge worlds and fight with an actiony system where anything could join the fight at any moment.  Not mention that the stories while linear for the most part let you do them at your own pace not what the devs said.   If you want to east when the story says goes west you can,  unlike in a JRPG, but common in old MMOs.   None of this wouldn't work in an MMO (heck everygame Beth has made since morrowind has had atleast one multiplayer mod in the works)

     

    So I ask you why are you surprised that people are annoyied that Elder Scrolls Online is doing a SWTOR where they taking game concpects that worked and throwing them out of the windows because they anrt themepark enough?

     

    ^This x1000

  • UhwopUhwop Member UncommonPosts: 1,791

    Originally posted by Coldren

    Originally posted by Uhwop

    [SNIP]

    They started this game back in 2007.

    .. Just pointing that out. It may have had more than a little impact on technological decisions.

    And personally, having played Darkfall.. No.. I don't need that kind of combat. DAoC 2 is just fine for me.

     I didn't say DF combat was good, I said that as far as FPS combat, it works, and it does.  The game may stutter with several hundred people in a single area all fighting, but then so do multiplayer FPS games, and with fewer people, as well as non FPS mmo's.  EVE has been fighting latency issues when a few hundred people enter a single area and start fighting, and they use a hotbar format.

    The key is, it works, and has been working; so you can't say that having skyrims combat in an MMO wouldn't work because of "technological limitations".  That's false, because it's been done, numerous times now, and is actually the direction MMO's are moving.  Like I said, FPS or Action oriented combat like TERA or DCUO aren't really that diffierent, they're both realtime and have to deal with latency.

    I'm aware of when they started the game.  It has no baring on what is or is not possible in a game.  When was planetside released? 

    2007 also means parallel development with skyrim; that's even more of a reason to not trust the leak at this time.  Did you play skyrim?  Did it not strike you that the game played an awful like like an MMO?  I wasn't the only one that played it and though that the only thing it was missing was a dedicated internet connection.  I'm pretty sure they even made a comment about that in an article on this site, I know I've seen it in other blogs and articles elsewhere. 

    And for the record, Tod Howard NEVER said they woudln't do an online ES game, he has always said they wouldn't tack an online component onto an ES game that was developed as a single player game, just for the sake of adding it.  Everyone always takes it out of context though.

    When was the last time you saw a studio reveal that they're working on an MMO, and tell you repeatedly that they're making the game play exactly like another game, that plays the complete opposite of how your game franchse plays?  Am I the only one that read every page of that leak and noticed that just about every single page actually mentiions world of warcraft; literally saying that they're making the game play, and function, just like world of warcraft.

     

    I'm seriously inclined to believe for the moment that the leak came from bethesda themselves, and that they're messing with us.  For 5 years they've been secretly developing an MMO based on the best selling sandbox RPGs of all time, then they reveal it, and within hours there's a leak that it will play exactly like best selling MMO of all time, that is so completely diffierent from the ES series as you can get?  I really hope I'm right about this.  It would be the best joke ever; mad props to bethesda if I'm right. 

  • BigHatLoganBigHatLogan Member Posts: 688

    I love how the developer said that ESO will resemble SWTOR.  He just said the game will look and play like crap, lol. 

    Are you a Pavlovian Fish Biscuit Addict? Get Help Now!
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  • EcocesEcoces Member UncommonPosts: 879

    bethesda fanboy here and im not going to touch this game, enough with these WoW Clones.

  • zevni78zevni78 Member UncommonPosts: 1,146

    They have completely missed the boat.


     


    There was a perfect gap in the market for a 1st person action sandpark mmo, combining the skill system of TSW, the dynamic events of GW2, the FPS of planetside2, DUST, Tribes, the melee of TERA and KoA:Reckoning, with the lore of TES, and they blew it.


     


    They are so far behind the curve that they deserve total failure for their lack of foresight. And what good there may be in the pvp will already be present in GW2 and TSW.


     


    I am out.

  • jusomdudejusomdude Member RarePosts: 2,706

    I would hope they at least have tons of mini dungeons out in the wilderness to explore. Kinda a trademark of the series. If the game is basically warcraft with an elderscrolls skin I think I'll pass.

  • spitfire1064spitfire1064 Member Posts: 61

    Who's to say none of these features will be added in future updates of expansions?

     

    Give it a chance.

  • zevni78zevni78 Member UncommonPosts: 1,146

    Originally posted by spitfire1064

    Who's to say none of these features will be added in future updates of expansions?

     

    Give it a chance.

     

    Why?

     

    We are not obligated to give any mmo a chance, its supply and demand, NO ONE demanded this, so they can shove their supply up their sterile mules.

     


    ANY mmo could potentially become a sandbox nirvana or the next great thempark, but we don’t have the time or will to give every mmo a chance, just those that have done something, anything to earn it.


     


    I won't follow this just because of the IP, or a dev who's ideas have already been implemented by other mmos.


     



    I don't buy an mmo for what expansions it may have, no one does, and if they were willing or able to introduce such content as the player base clearly want into expansions they would have included them from the start. This isn’t like SquareEnix/Yoshi P with FFXIV who have to be told by the players how to make a mmo as the Japanese have no real experience of them, this is a company that knew what was going on, and did the laziest, dumbest most obvious move. They backed the wrong horse.


     


     


     



     

  • davestr1zldavestr1zl Member Posts: 218

    Originally posted by bcbully

    Leveling to level cap sounds so ridiculous in the day and age. Gogo TSW! I crimge at the thought of leveling for the sake of leveling lol. I still don't understand why gw2 has levels. 

    Levels are an out dated concept that we will see come to an end after 2013. releases.

    You heard it hete first. 

    MMORPG - A fundamental element of RPG's is progression, and a levelling system is the most logical, easy to understand, and easy to implement form of progression. Leveling and leveling systems wont cease to exist until another major form of progression is developed or realised that works in a wider sale acroscs RPG's and games with RPG elements. Simply removing progression wont work, as whether you realise it or not it is a core reason and motivation for people continuing to play the game. Without it people either conciously or subconciously lose the desire to play. Its why most MMO's have players fall off at 'end-game'. Its not because there is a lack of content (theres always content if you want to look for it even in some of the worst MMO's), the problem is there is no longer a form of guided progression. I personally dont see 'levels' going anywhere any time soon, infact you'll be seeing it more, and on games of all genres like we're starting to see with progression systems and RPG elements being implemented into first person shooters and such.

  • musicmannmusicmann Member UncommonPosts: 1,095

    Originally posted by davestr1zl

    Originally posted by bcbully

    Leveling to level cap sounds so ridiculous in the day and age. Gogo TSW! I crimge at the thought of leveling for the sake of leveling lol. I still don't understand why gw2 has levels. 

    Levels are an out dated concept that we will see come to an end after 2013. releases.

    You heard it hete first. 

    MMORPG - A fundamental element of RPG's is progression, and a levelling system is the most logical, easy to understand, and easy to implement form of progression. Leveling and leveling systems wont cease to exist until another major form of progression is developed or realised that works in a wider sale acroscs RPG's and games with RPG elements. Simply removing progression wont work, as whether you realise it or not it is a core reason and motivation for people continuing to play the game. Without it people either conciously or subconciously lose the desire to play. Its why most MMO's have players fall off at 'end-game'. Its not because there is a lack of content (theres always content if you want to look for it even in some of the worst MMO's), the problem is there is no longer a form of guided progression.

    For all these years i thought the RPG in these games meant, actual role playing, didn't realize it meant a leveling progression. So, back in my SWG pre-cu days, when i went into the cantina and asked for a buff and the person i was talking to was totally into that dancers roll,  and i was totally into being that stormtrooper who walked in to check for rebel scum that was said to be hiding, i wasn't RPing . On the other hand, when i was running around as a Blood Elf  taking every quest that i could find in WOW and leveling up and progressing, i was actually Role playing.

    I don't think i have ever read something so dumb in my life.

  • gamefreak565gamefreak565 Member UncommonPosts: 14

    I'm a Bethesda fan, having played the majority of their games and enjoying all of them. That being said, I will not touch this game with a ten foot pole. Nothing unique to the ES series is being offered with this game. This seems to be another WoW clone with an ES related theme. Sorry, not my kind of game.

    I honestly don't know what they were thinking. Then again, this seems to be a growing trend with MMOs these days. They look at how WoW was developed and try and emulate it's success. All of them seem to fail in this regard. Despite this consistent failing, companies still insist on developing their games to "copy" WoW. It's becoming less and less understandable with the recent string of failures associated with these games.

    Tl;dr if I wanted to play a generic MMO with hotbar combat and traditional MMO gameplay, I would play the already polished WoW.

  • NildenNilden Member EpicPosts: 3,916

    Originally posted by Uhwop

    I don't understand why people keep saying that something like Skyrim wouldn't work as an MMO.

    Look at what's happening with MMO's that are coming out.  It's a bunch of FPS/ Action oriented games.  They all seem to be able to get around the "technology limitations".  Action oriented games like TERA, and DCUO are no diffierent then FPS ones like Planetside and Darkfall, and fighting isn't a problem in any of these games.

    Mortal online only has problems because it's wholey a work in progress, by a very small, inexperienced, underfunded, independant studio.  There wouldn't be the latency issues if it had 250 developers and the financial resources of Zenimax. 

    The skyrim combat system is more then doable, and would actually be the  best suited for an MMO of all the ES games.  This is one of my hesitations of believing the leak or any of the articles using information obtained from the leak.  

     

    Housing in oblivion and skyrim is done exactly the same way as it is in EQ2.  I can't beleive any comment that it wouldn't be possible to do housing the way fans would expect when you could use the exact same housing sytem SoE uses in EQ2 and ES fans wouldn't know the diffiernce.  The only difference is the presence of a server! 

     

    Crafting?  It's done in skyrim just like the magority of MMO's on the market. 

     

    NPC?  NPC"s in skyrim are basically asteroids in EVE.  I mine an asteroid, it's gone until the server reset the next morning.  I kill an NPC in skyrim it's gone until the game generates a new NPC to take it's place.  Skyrim replaces the NPC's.  Kill a farmer and another farmer may eventually take over the farm.  The only difference is that it may also trigger a side quest, and even that can be done in an MMO.  They alrady have triggers in MMO's based on something you may or may not have done at some point.  DCUO used them to have bad guys ambush you in the world if you followed some story archs, I pretty sure WoW did the same exact thing.  It's the same basic thing as happens in Skyrim, and more then possible to do in an ES MMO.  You can kill pretty much every NPC in WoW, they'll eventually respawn, just handle the respawning more creatively by having the NPC quest giver not be the same individual, and make the quest generic in such a way that it doesn't require the quest giver to be a specific individual.  Key NPC's can be made unkillable by simply making them to powerful to kill. 

     

    Dynamically generated dungeons?  City of Heroes has been doing this for how long now?  Especially when you start talking about solo dungeons being generated for quests, it's just a location you click and then get transfered to an instance.

     

    The only thing that I don't see as doable in an MMO is the Radiant AI, but even that can be overcome with a simpler version of the AI that would still have NPC"s going about doing things.

     

    Converting Skyrim to an MMO format is more then doable, saying otherwise is simply false.  There are very few things they would need to change about skyrim to account for having lots of people playing in the world.  And that's mostly the primary story.  You do not need to make a central storyline in an MMO that revolves around an individual being the god like hero, sent to save the world. 

     

    There is nothing in an ES game that hasn't been done in MMO's already.  From the character progression format, to the combat, crafting, dungeons, and housing.  Every gameplay element in skyrim has already been done in MMO's for many, many years now. 

    To say it wouldn't work in an MMO is BS, it's been working.

     

    Until I've read the article myself next month, or seen informatiion that is official, all the stuff being based on the leak is just a rumor, and could very well be someones idea of a joke.  It could very well be bethesdas idea of a joke, poking fun at thier own game by "leaking" information saying that it's going to be just like WoW ( did no one notice the number of times world of warcraft is mentioned in the leak?)  Bethesda is involved in the game, Tod howard is involved with the game; just because they formed a new branch within the company doesn't mean that much.  It really only means they did it for the sake of structuring.  It's easier in a multitude of ways for a company like Zenimax to create another division responsible for the online projects then it is to put those projects on an existing division that is already responsible for work they're doing.

     

    Zenimax media was started by the guy that founded bethesda.  The CEO of zenimax was installed by the guy that founded bethesda.  Zenimax as created for no other reason then as a means of structuring the company and raising money.  A lawyer, a former MLB player, and a bunch of guys from verious other media outlets, that's all zenimax is.  Weaver is the guy behind everything.  Weaver is bethesda, and bethesda is the publisher; there is no TESO without bethesda.  Bethesdas brand is stamped all over this project.

    At the end of the day, Weaver and Bethesda are responsible for all things Elder scrolls. 

    And you can not make an ES game, and state that you're giving the FANS of the ES games the MMO they've always wanted, and not make it like the ES games.  To do anything less then Morrowind threw Skyrim with an online component would not be giving the fans what they've always wanted.

    It's just rumors until real proof is shown. 

    I think the real joke is that the leaked game informer article will turn out to be 100% acurate. I hope it isn't but I'm sure Zenimax or Bethesda would have called hoax by now.

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  • LizardEgyptLizardEgypt Member UncommonPosts: 333

    Originally posted by gamefreak565

    I'm a Bethesda fan, having played the majority of their games and enjoying all of them. That being said, I will not touch this game with a ten foot pole. Nothing unique to the ES series is being offered with this game. This seems to be another WoW clone with an ES related theme. Sorry, not my kind of game.

    I honestly don't know what they were thinking. Then again, this seems to be a growing trend with MMOs these days. They look at how WoW was developed and try and emulate it's success. All of them seem to fail in this regard. Despite this consistent failing, companies still insist on developing their games to "copy" WoW. It's becoming less and less understandable with the recent string of failures associated with these games.

    Tl;dr if I wanted to play a generic MMO with hotbar combat and traditional MMO gameplay, I would play the already polished WoW.

    Not to mention, the features they copy aren't what made WoW popular. The mention of max level heroics is literally the last thing I want to hear advertised about a new game. 

    Currently playing - FF14ARR
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  • SEANMCADSEANMCAD Member EpicPosts: 16,775

    I doubt the information in this article is true.

    Elders has always been classles and argueably is a main pillar of what the series is. I doubt they would go against that

    Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.

    Please do not respond to me

  • ABRaquelABRaquel Member UncommonPosts: 541

    Originally posted by SEANMCAD

    I doubt the information in this article is true.

    Elders has always been classles and argueably is a main pillar of what the series is. I doubt they would go against that

    Unfortunately it's true, several other gaming sites have already posted parts of Game Informer spread. All that the OP posted is there.

  • cloud8521cloud8521 Member Posts: 878

    mortal online would be a better ESO then this.... lets pretend it is and say this is mortal online then just forget them both

  • MyrdynnMyrdynn Member RarePosts: 2,479

    I find it funny that everyone that is bashing Elder Scrolls Online for the OP's post, probably all preordered GW2.  Everything mentioned in the OP is in GW2, yet, same people prolly all defend GW2 to the max

    yes I find this news about TESO very disappointing, but if you change the name to Guild Wars 2, everyone would be stoked!!!

     

  • cloud8521cloud8521 Member Posts: 878

    Originally posted by Myrdynn

    I find it funny that everyone that is bashing Elder Scrolls Online for the OP's post, probably all preordered GW2.  Everything mentioned in the OP is in GW2, yet, same people prolly all defend GW2 to the max

    yes I find this news about TESO very disappointing, but if you change the name to Guild Wars 2, everyone would be stoked!!!

     

    well for one its not reallyl ike gw2. i degress not my point here

     

    my point is,  it does not make them feel like its a elder scroll game, me included.  people probably wanted something closer to skyrim with more players running around. and thats probably what they expected when they first heard.

  • adam_noxadam_nox Member UncommonPosts: 2,148

    Originally posted by Myrdynn

    I find it funny that everyone that is bashing Elder Scrolls Online for the OP's post, probably all preordered GW2.  Everything mentioned in the OP is in GW2, yet, same people prolly all defend GW2 to the max

    yes I find this news about TESO very disappointing, but if you change the name to Guild Wars 2, everyone would be stoked!!!

     

    Yes, and since GW2 looks good, let's just keep making games just like it.  Except GW2 is a fluke.  Look at every other wowclone and how crappy they are.   Getting hopes up for this game now is just foolish.  If they deliver a second blue moon, then great, but the TES concepts could make a somewhat shoddy game innovative and fun.  Now the bar is much higher.

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