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It made me laugh

KyleranKyleran Tampa, FLPosts: 20,008Member Uncommon

So I'm playing TERA last evening (level 35, whoo hoo) and I see a guildmate bemoan how "slow" the leveling is going, now that he only has 14 to go until level 60.

I said, for heaven's sake, this is only day 3 of the release, and you're complaining about not being max level yet?

As a former Lineage 2 player, it made me laugh to think of the 1 to 1.5 year grind I faced to get to level 70 when it first came out.  i didn't make it by the way, stopped after 6 months of pretty solid gameplay at level 52. 

Even in a more reasonable title like DAOC it took me almost 5 months to get a character up to level 50, and some more time to get his realm ranks up to a respectable level (5)

Kids these days.  image

Many folks just aren't interested in actually playing the game, they're rushing towards the end and in TERA's case we're not even sure there's  much of anything there right now.  Strange.

I know, none of this is news to you, but it just sort of got driven home once more to me last evening.

Well, in my own case, I'm enjoying my journey, and just completed a pretty cool story line quest last evening.  And people say TERA has no story.... image

 

 

 

In my day MMORPG's were so hard we fought our way through dungeons in the snow, uphill both ways.
"I don't have one life, I have many lives" - Grunty
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Comments

  • Sid_ViciousSid_Vicious Sandpoint, IDPosts: 1,526Member

    Yeah its ridiculous how much the expectations are these days. How are these new games going to compete with all these free to play games along with World of Warcraft still taking the lead? Hopefully it doesn't simply have a rush of newcomers that quit a couple months later looking for the next thing while many others wait for it to go free to play like the common trend these days.

     

    Why can't this game have some sort of risk vs reward though? If it did have something to fight for that was extremely difficult to earn and maintain than I would be a hell of a lot more motivated to stick it out until the end .. . . but it doesn't so its just going to fit into the huge category of games that I may enjoy parts of it but do not have time to play when other games have more challenge to offer.

     

    I understand that most people play MMORPGs to group with others and work as a team but some of us have done plenty of that and just want to compete with other gamers because its not as much fun to win the computer . .. . especially when others will be winning the computer during the same quest hundreds of times after I do so where's the real sense of accomplishment?

    NEWS FLASH! A bank was robbed the other day and a man opened fire on the customers being held hostage. One customer zig-zag sprinted until he found cover. When questioned later he explained that he was a hardcore Darkfall Online player and knew just what to do.

  • adam_noxadam_nox hays, KSPosts: 2,036Member Uncommon

    stopped reading at lineage 2, that should never be used as an example for anything.

     

    and maybe he's been playing 20 hours a day.  did Tera have early access or anything?

  • LarsaLarsa NurembergPosts: 990Member

    Originally posted by adam_nox

    stopped reading at lineage 2, that should never be used as an example for anything.

     

    and maybe he's been playing 20 hours a day.  did Tera have early access or anything?

    I believe you missed the whole point of the OP.

    Maybe you should start reading the posts your're replying to.

    I maintain this List of Sandbox MMORPGs. Please post or send PM for corrections and suggestions.

  • KyleranKyleran Tampa, FLPosts: 20,008Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by adam_nox

    stopped reading at lineage 2, that should never be used as an example for anything.

     

    and maybe he's been playing 20 hours a day.  did Tera have early access or anything?

    Yes I know L2 is the extreme end of grind, but DAOC was a reasonable example had you kept reading a little further. image

    And yes, TERA did have a head start but no, I wasn't complaining about his level, or even how much he has played (I'm sure there's level 60s' already) but just the general attitude that he feels the leveling is too slow.

    Believe me, it's not slow by any reasonable measure of the past, but perhaps compared to today's player expectations it's excessive?  I just don't see it, but then again, while I chase the carrot as much as the next guy I don't mind spending a reasonable amount of time enjoying the journey.

    Also I wanted to note, this is not related to just TERA, I saw the same attitude with SWTOR, people just racing towards the finish and being disappointed at what they found at the end of the rainbow.

     

    In my day MMORPG's were so hard we fought our way through dungeons in the snow, uphill both ways.
    "I don't have one life, I have many lives" - Grunty
    Still currently "subscribed" to EVE, and only EVE!!!
    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon

  • LarsaLarsa NurembergPosts: 990Member

    The funny thing is, after the GW2 beta weekend - that I didn't play - I read some GW2 forum. On the very same page of that forum was a thread from someone who claimed he got to level 40 during beta weekend and another thread from someone claiming that levelling was too slow.

    It made me laugh.

    I maintain this List of Sandbox MMORPGs. Please post or send PM for corrections and suggestions.

  • nationalcitynationalcity Decatur, MIPosts: 330Member Uncommon

    It's because gamers now day's don't care about the leveling process..

    All everyone care's about is endgame, because that is what we have been accustomed to recently with all the past  released MMO's... *cough WOW cough*

     

    I also remember taking days to level when I played eq back in 2000.

    We also gotta be realstic people just don't wanna have to grind for months on end to get levels anymore most people wanna jump on for a few hours a night and actually feel like they accomplished something....

    Do I miss the days of grinding for levels ? Sometimes

  • IndolIndol O''Fallon, MOPosts: 189Member

    Many people have lost their minds. They've replaced fun with completely mindless competition.

     

    For instance, i was watching a guy streaming Tera recently and both he and his guildmates had been playing non-stop for around 2 or 3 days in an effort to get level 60 server firsts for their respective classes. I caught them towards the end of their run and by that time they were complaining of nausea and exhaustion while moaning about how torturous it was.... They voluntarily turned the game into a torturous experience rather than just playing the game for fun. It's pretty mind boggling.

     

    Narcissism is so common these days that it has officially lost it's classification as a mental disorder. It is considered 'normal' now. Think about that....

     

    EDIT: I forgot to mention that when they finally did reach level 60 there was barely a celebration. Mostly it was just more moaning and complaining before they went to pass out. What was the point?!

  • IPolygonIPolygon ViennaPosts: 707Member Uncommon

    I guess people have been trained by traditional MMORPGs to go for the endgame content. That's why people rush to the endgame in illusion of having the best experience the game can offer as fast as possible. Developers these days need to advertise the journey to the end of their MMO as major content, so people don't think they miss something until they are max level.

    This, or people want to pvp as early as possible and be on equal footing (gear-wise) without the hassel of getting stomped by someone with more magic find or luck. After all, it's a matter of communication and game design.

  • dave6660dave6660 New York, NYPosts: 2,543Member Uncommon

    It makes you wonder where all this ends.  How short of an attention span does a game have to cater to?

    Maybe in the future we'll start the game, kill 1 mob and hit max level.  He'll drop a full set of epic gear.  Next we fight the boss.  After you kill him, that's it.  Game over!  Next title.

    “There are certain queer times and occasions in this strange mixed affair we call life when a man takes this whole universe for a vast practical joke, though the wit thereof he but dimly discerns, and more than suspects that the joke is at nobody's expense but his own.”
    -- Herman Melville

  • OldsaltOldsalt Monett, MOPosts: 41Member

    Originally posted by dave6660

    It makes you wonder where all this ends.  How short of an attention span does a game have to cater to?

    Maybe in the future we'll start the game, kill 1 mob and hit max level.  He'll drop a full set of epic gear.  Next we fight the boss.  After you kill him, that's it.  Game over!  Next title.

    Shhhhhhhhhh...they can hear you. Now the next big game will be named,"Instamax:Game Over!".

    The sooner you fall behind the more time you have to catch up.

  • SiugSiug TallinnPosts: 1,236Member Uncommon

    Actually I loved EQ grind because getting a new level meant something there. Like getting to 50 and becoming Reaver instead of Shadow Knight in /who search :) I'm not saying that I'd like to grind months again but hitting max level in a couple of days is just wrong imho. 

  • dave6660dave6660 New York, NYPosts: 2,543Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Kyleran

    Originally posted by adam_nox

    stopped reading at lineage 2, that should never be used as an example for anything.

     

    and maybe he's been playing 20 hours a day.  did Tera have early access or anything?

    Yes I know L2 is the extreme end of grind, but DAOC was a reasonable example had you kept reading a little further. image

    And yes, TERA did have a head start but no, I wasn't complaining about his level, or even how much he has played (I'm sure there's level 60s' already) but just the general attitude that he feels the leveling is too slow.

    Believe me, it's not slow by any reasonable measure of the past, but perhaps compared to today's player expectations it's excessive?  I just don't see it, but then again, while I chase the carrot as much as the next guy I don't mind spending a reasonable amount of time enjoying the journey.

    Also I wanted to note, this is not related to just TERA, I saw the same attitude with SWTOR, people just racing towards the finish and being disappointed at what they found at the end of the rainbow.

     

    I don't think it's all that extreme.  What's wrong with not being able to hit max level for a year?  Lineage 2 was a lot of fun and I never felt my level was holding me back.  I played for a while and never even made A grade (forget S).  Nobody is forcing you to get there in any set time frame (or at all for that matter).  Players are free to quit at any time.

    “There are certain queer times and occasions in this strange mixed affair we call life when a man takes this whole universe for a vast practical joke, though the wit thereof he but dimly discerns, and more than suspects that the joke is at nobody's expense but his own.”
    -- Herman Melville

  • QuizzicalQuizzical Posts: 14,784Member Uncommon

    To me, it's not how fast or slow the leveling goes.  It's how long the game has content to keep me interested.  If it's, go kill 1000 furbolgs to gain a level, then I'm not interested.  If it's go kill 5 of these, 10 of those, and so forth, then I'm fine with it taking months to reach the cap, so long as I've got adequately varied content along the way.

    I think that it is foolish to try to skip as much of the content as you possibly can on the way to the level cap and then complain about the lack of content at the level cap.

  • AxehiltAxehilt San Francisco, CAPosts: 8,752Member Uncommon

    The underlying criticism probably isn't leveling rate but the rate of new experiences/content.

    Oldschool games weren't somehow better for having worse rates of new things.  That was part of why they were pretty bad (and consequently unpopular) games.

    "Joe stated his case logically and passionately, but his perceived effeminate voice only drew big gales of stupid laughter..." -Idiocracy
    "There is only one good, knowledge, and one evil, ignorance." -Socrates

  • GeezerGamerGeezerGamer ChairPosts: 5,596Member Uncommon

    This post hits home on a topic I have been struggling with lately. I recall my days with Anarchy Online, Star Wars Galaxies and also, City of Heroes among others. You didn't plow through the game to cap. You went on a journey with your Character. MMO leveling was't measured in days/weeks but months/years (Years if casual)

    In the early days, if you leveled, you went out, grouped up and just started killing mobs. Those who played CoH will probably remember SKing up and sitting at the entrance to the instance map while the 50s went off to kill Dreck. Rappelz has DPs, Dungeon Parties. You went into an instance, found your spot and just killed and killed in teams. Anarchy Online had Heck Teams or Cyborg Teams. SWG had teams as well, you joined a party and just went out to do your thing.

    The point is, back then if you wanted to level, you teamed up and went out and did it together. Maybe this is why Asians still love grinders. Because to them, it's not a grind if you team up with some buddies and all head out and tackle the job in a group.

    Somewhere along the line, (I think it was WoW 2.3) The devs got the idea that hitting level cap had to be done entirely through solo questing and that there needed to be enough quests to hit cap without grinding. This stuck. Now, in the west, as MMOs become more CPU/GPU intensive, the quality of the content has increased. But I think the trade off has come in the quantity of quests getting smaller. So now since there are fewer quests to be done, Cap has gotten closer and closer.

    Just last week, In Rift, I started a new Warrior on a fresh server. I am doing everything content wise. I will not leave Freemarch until I have done everything there is to do in Freemarch. This means, I will have all the level appropriate dungeon gear, PVP gear, Planar gear, All my profession skills will be leveled appropriately and I will have completed all quests and "Easter Egg" content there is. I am not even 1/3 done and I am level 16. I will lock at 19 and finish before moving to Stonefield. This time, It's about the content, not the levels.

    You know what? It's actually been more fun this way than Powering to 50.

  • DibdabsDibdabs FelvershamPosts: 2,604Member Uncommon

    People who rush madly to max level are nutjobs.

  • aesperusaesperus Hamshire, NVPosts: 5,128Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by nationalcity

    It's because gamers now day's don't care about the leveling process..

    This ^

    Think about it this way. Many of us have been playing MMOs for over almost a decade now, if not longer. That's A LOT of lvl grinding. We shouldn't really have to devote a year of our lives to grinding, every time a new MMO comes out, just to experience the 'endgame' content. This is also one of the big problems w/ lvl & gear grind games. Most of us gamers have played enough of these to know that the amount of time that used to be invested towards getting to the 'fun stuff', was just not a fair trade off. Why should we have to wait a year, if not longer, to experience the full game? What other types of games make you do that? Would you be satisfied if you bought a mass effect game, but couldn't see the ending until a year after release? I know I would be pretty pissed.

    This is one case in which I don't think gamers are being spoiled. Expecting people to devote up to 1-2% of their total life span to a video game, just to have a shot at experience the full product (which they paid for and then some) is ridiculous. This used to be fun, back when MMOs were relatively new, because it was about the journey. We wanted to see where it would take us. However, that journey is gone. We know what's at the end of the road, and most of us are tired of it.

    Many of us like endgame content (or at least expect it), but the timesink isn't good game design, it's a stall tactic. It's what you do when you need to ensure that people don't reach the end before you can put out new content. Or it's something you do when you want to milk subs.

    - If your friend is powerlvling (which it sounds like he is), and playing 20 hours or more a day, then he should be able to hit (i think it's max 50? or was it 60) in about a week. If you're right, and there really isn't much to do at max lvl, then that would be extremely embarassing for TERA. The game has had over a year to fix itself up for the west. Lacking in content shouldn't be excuseable for this game, it's had pleanty of time.

  • Deron_BarakDeron_Barak Portland, ORPosts: 1,136Member
    In regards for TERA we have a list of normal and hard mode dungeons plus Nexus events at endgame. What effect that will have long term is anyone's guess right now.

    Concerning the path of express, drive thru MMOs I think part of it comes down to instant gratification and unrealistic expectations. We always want to feel like we are gaining something more and our enjoyment is a direct reflection of that. Simply playing in the world is not good enough, it's too much of a grind. I want it now, I'm paying so I want it now. We have far too many options noe and are spoiled IMO.

    Untealistic expectations is wanting a vast, open world that engages you... That you can get the max level at in a week or less..?! May as well make a lobby game and design hundreds of nice dungeons instead of a true game world. EQ was a grind but it was a huge world and you didn't feel like you only point was to run dungeons for the best gear score.

    Just not worth my time anymore.

  • mmoguy43mmoguy43 , CAPosts: 2,446Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Axehilt

    The underlying criticism probably isn't leveling rate but the rate of new experiences/content.

    Oldschool games weren't somehow better for having worse rates of new things.  That was part of why they were pretty bad (and consequently unpopular) games.

    Oldschool games were better because back then new experiances were more frequent. Leveling wasn't something you've done 100 times before. Slower leveling ment more oppotunities for doing new things.

    Leveling fast and getting to cap in a short amount of time with so few endgame options is a bad mmo game. There aren't very many new things to experience in mmos anymore.

  • eddieg50eddieg50 Tolland, CTPosts: 1,614Member Uncommon

       I think one reason why people want to rush to the end game in Tera is because of the poor story line, quests. very few people in Tera bother to read the quest so they want to combat (which is fun) and get to a highter level (to gank lowbies and fight bams and such) where as in a game like swtor you could watch the stories unfold and listen to the cutscenes and voice overs, it was a more leisurely experience, except for the anti story add kids who could not take it and space barred through.  When the story is not good you want to get to the good stuff and beside the combat that does not happen in tera until about level 25

  • AxehiltAxehilt San Francisco, CAPosts: 8,752Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by mmoguy43

    Oldschool games were better because back then new experiances were more frequent. Leveling wasn't something you've done 100 times before. Slower leveling ment more oppotunities for doing new things.

    Leveling fast and getting to cap in a short amount of time with so few endgame options is a bad mmo game. There aren't very many new things to experience in mmos anymore.

    If that was the case, I wouldn't have dropped AO, AC1, and DAOC so fast.  The core of why I dropped them were they were endless, dull mob grinds which failed to provide new experiences.

    There wasn't "opportunity" to do new things just because I spent 100x more time grinding mob x than I would in a modern game.

    "Joe stated his case logically and passionately, but his perceived effeminate voice only drew big gales of stupid laughter..." -Idiocracy
    "There is only one good, knowledge, and one evil, ignorance." -Socrates

  • IcewhiteIcewhite Elmhurst, ILPosts: 6,403Member

    Originally posted by Kyleran

    As a former Lineage 2 player, it made me laugh to think of the 1 to 1.5 year grind I faced to get to level 70 when it first came out.

    Can you imagine an average time-to-cap on the close order of a decade?  Pre-MMO, of course, but it wasn't all that unusual at the time.

    Now imagine the player base.  You'll never hear the "instant gratification" phrase.

    Then again, the audience is orders of magnitude smaller--no talk of 15 million, barely 15 hundred.  WoW hasn't quantum shifted the expectations yet, not even UO's or M59's more modest efforts.  "Massive" hasn't even been coined.

    Draw your own conclusions.

    Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.

  • GraeyGraey Jacksonville, FLPosts: 218Member

    You know perhaps people should just take away levels, or something.

    I have no representation on how it would be that you would know you were getting stronger. Perhaps repeated use of your skills or something.

    I think the Secret World is doing this. I'm curious to see the impressiong peole have of the beta after next weekend.

    End game to do what I don't know, especially since Tera has no raids to speak of so what would you do at end game? You rushed to compete but then what. Not to say getting there as fast as you can is bad, just don't turn around and say there is now nothing to do you know.

     

    Well has anyone that plays Tera as I cancelled my sub and uninstalled it...know what they have at end game?

  • WhiteLanternWhiteLantern Nevada, MOPosts: 2,732Member Common

    Originally posted by Icewhite

    Originally posted by Kyleran

    As a former Lineage 2 player, it made me laugh to think of the 1 to 1.5 year grind I faced to get to level 70 when it first came out.

    Can you imagine an average time-to-cap on the close order of a decade?  Pre-MMO, of course, but it wasn't all that unusual at the time.

    Now imagine the player base.  You'll never hear the "instant gratification" phrase.

    Then again, the audience is a couple of orders of magnitude smaller.  WoW hasn't quantum shifted the expectations yet, not even UO's or M59's more modest efforts.

    Draw your own conclusions.

    I've gotten used to you talking over my head most of the time, but, man, this one flew right over and didn't even stop to wave at me. image

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  • mmoguy43mmoguy43 , CAPosts: 2,446Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Axehilt

    Originally posted by mmoguy43

    Oldschool games were better because back then new experiances were more frequent. Leveling wasn't something you've done 100 times before. Slower leveling ment more oppotunities for doing new things.

    Leveling fast and getting to cap in a short amount of time with so few endgame options is a bad mmo game. There aren't very many new things to experience in mmos anymore.

    If that was the case, I wouldn't have dropped AO, AC1, and DAOC so fast.  The core of why I dropped them were they were endless, dull mob grinds which failed to provide new experiences.

    There wasn't "opportunity" to do new things just because I spent 100x more time grinding mob x than I would in a modern game.

    Ok so it was just you because I had the opposite experience. Another case where I read your post as if you were trying to make it sound like fact but it was your personal opinion, my mistake.

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