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Finally someone that looks past the first expereince ?

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  • BakamiBakami Member Posts: 5

    Originally posted by aesperus

    .. She definitely was playing like a WoW player (and I don't mean that in a derogatory manner, just that the game is setup quite a bit differently, and has a completely different mindset to go with it.) ..

     

    1) Rewards. I'm going to assume that she's mostly talking about money. She makes a point to gribe about the 50 copper, and I have to say that I agree. 

    I disagree - dont forget those rewards are scaled accordingly to your lvl. Maybe in the lower lvls there is some kind of +-0 balance, there is no evidence that it stays this way. I am pretty sure that 50 copper is the same reward you get for succesfully completing pve events (lvl5ish?) with the difference that in pvp you have the "potential" to die more often, but ya thats also what immersion is: fair rewards.

    ..You should have at least enough for a few repairs, after taking a major keep..

    true that ..but i rly think that is already the case

    ..would be good to have an auto-loot feature in WvW. It's really easy to miss looting the enemy players you kill, and in big battles, you don't want to stop just to loot everyone you've killed. You want to stay focused on the objective at hand..

    right - immersion is when you can't have everything at the same time (battlefocus, action, looting, burning..) so make your decision: loot or fight -> no to auto-loot

    2) Melee vs. Ranged. I'm really getting tired of this, but I suppose I have to bring this up again. While yes, it is easier to stand back and spam AoE (you can basically do that w/ out thinking), it doesn't mean melee are weaker, or less useful. While I don't think it'll happen, I think these same people that are whining about melee, will be the same people that whine about melee being overpowered when they get buffed.

    I agree 100%

     

    ..What a lot of people are complaining about (when it comes to the PvP) are zerg mentallity. It's easy to get rocked as a melee in a zerg, if you or your teamm8s are clueless (which is most of the time, in a zerg). An organized group is another story entirely..

     

    3) Keep Doors. I'm sure she's not alone in this complaint, however. Keeps are supposed to be difficult to take. It's not something you should easily be able to do w/ a small PUG. Balancing for that would result in keeps being almost worthless to defend, and would quickly turn into a base trading game.

    Furthermore, you may have noticed that as she's talking about it, the footage shows them attacking a REINFORCED GATE. I know she just pulled that off the web, but i'm not sure she knows what that means. You can upgrade your keeps defenses (for a price) to make it harder to take. Upgraded keeps are not supposed to be easy. There's a number of things you can do against an upgraded keep, but a lot of the time it means you're going to need siege weapons (yet another thing melee is good for). You can try and brute force the door. You can bombard the defenders on the walls. You can say 'screw the gate' and bombard one of the actual walls (and quite a few people have taken keeps this way. It's harder to defend against).

    If someone is repair spamming a keep, 1 or 2 things needs to happen. You need to cut off their supply (they can't repair w/ out supply). Or you need to attack multiple points (spread out the supply they are using). Again, it all comes down to strategy. Here's an example of some intelligent WvW play, with a smaller guild going up against a much larger force. Just to give you guys some perspective on what is possible. (heads up, it's long)

    You nailed that!  :)

  • RequiamerRequiamer Member Posts: 2,034



    Originally posted by Bakami


    Originally posted by aesperus

    If someone is repair spamming a keep, 1 or 2 things needs to happen.


    You cannot repair a door that is under fire, i especially tested it myself, this is just impossible, the amount of aoe will insta kill you, even if you are behind the door, and nobody will be able to come close to you to res you without dieing. You can repair when nobody is attacking it though.

  • tordurbartordurbar Member UncommonPosts: 421

    Originally posted by Sybnal

    I mostly agree with the OP for the most part.

    For me, the best part of DAOC PvP was the RR system. To be able to improve your character with new abilities through PvP was what kept me playing that game for years.  When WAR came out I was happy to see a similar system but the stats you got from PvP in WAR were next to useless so they implemented it poorly.

    When my friends and guildmates asked for my verdict on GW2 I said, " it was a great game but here's what your not going to like."  Then proceeded to tell them about this very thing.  It was an instant turn off for all of them.  A few asked "Why keep playing at 80 if there is zero progression of any type"?  I had no answer for them. 

    I'm not saying that people won't like this system.  I'm just saying that myself, and everyone I've been playing games with for the last decade arn't too fired up about meaningless PvP for PvP's sake as an endgame.

    I know myself and I can guarantee that I will play through this game once, stick around for a week or two after, then move on out of boredom if things stay as is.

    This - except I expect to be playing for 12 weeks (ironically just about the same amount of time I stuck with SWTOR). The GW2 world is just incredible and so much more than just pvp but, with no rewards after max level execpt for achievements I don't see staying much longer. Plus, the idea of going back and fighting lower level bosses at their level does not sound fun to me. I level so that it is easier for me to fight bosses. This may be a fun challenge for skilled players but for others (like me) it is an exercise in frustration.

  • VolkonVolkon Member UncommonPosts: 3,748

    Originally posted by Lord.Bachus

    Originally posted by Djildjamesh

    Some making the assumption everyone expects to play this game for 7 years.

    If my first 150 hours on this game are going to be as amazing as i think they will  be. It'll be money good spend.

    I do agree with that.

     

    However, many people wil get upset, as they still want to play the game with the best game mechanics after those 150 hours. but they are missing the rewards system. It will give a very unruly community of MMO ers with no place to go. Playing the best game, and still feeling empty after playing it.  Just fun is not enough for the majorrity of the MMO players. and there will be an uprise as they dont want to leave the world of Tyria, but still feel unhappy and uncomplete in it.

    If the only rewards you'll be happy with are the carrot on a stick gear treadmill based ones, well, this isn't the game for you, period. The complaints about the keep attacks are ridiculous. They're not aware you can take down walls? Seige equipement can be built, utilized and defended?

     

    Someone wants GW2 to be the next WoW. Not gonna happen.

    Oderint, dum metuant.

  • IPolygonIPolygon Member UncommonPosts: 707

    Well, I don't mind generic names for enemies in WvW, because people get flamed from opposing players. True top tier pvper will be found in sPVP. I also like the ability to filter cross-team chat in LoL, because trash talking is nothing a community can be proud of. I hope they will fix local chat for the upcoming beta.

  • PuraimaruPuraimaru Member UncommonPosts: 68

    Originally posted by Lord.Bachus

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xx5OTz2JYzg&feature=player_embedded

     

    Finally someone that looks past the first experience.

     

    Not having any real rewards will make many people leave the game. Maybe Arenanet doesn't really care for that as they allready sold their boxes, but most players will care. In DAoC PvP many people started complaining about their WvW (RvR) after a few weeks as they realised their wasn't any personal reward for playing RvR. then after a few more weeks people started actually leaving because of that. Loosing subs made the DAoC crew that they actually needed things to reward people personal experience for PvPing. And they came up with the realmpoints system.  A very grindy system in its core, that didn't feel grindy because the PVP was that much fun. With realmpoints you could buy abbilities and you got titles. Most important is that the system did not unballance PvP, as the first few points (up to about 40%) where easy atainable.

    On top of that another point of proof is that when reaching max level in GW and finishing the story, many many people left the game because they felt like not being rewarded for their playtime. I saw some graphics that most of the players left after finishing the Story in PvE between 1 month and 3 months of buying the game. And they almost all left because there werent any rewards. Maybe i am one of those that dares to admit it, but i do like the taste of carrots on a stick. (as long as progression is kept to a minimum and not overdone like in WoW) This goes for PvP and PVE. if people leave the game, this will be the reason number one, because most of the gaemplay is just awesome. Minor rewards can work without unballancing the game, DAoC prooved that pre atlantis expansion. and getting 5 realmpoints feels totally different then geting 53 cupper.

     

     

    Another point of outright criticisme is not having player names shown in WvW. again you need to think back to DAoC as thats clearly the system they wanted to copy. Players where named in the killspam where very important for immersion intoo the RvR. You knew who was fighting you and who you where fighting with. Certain names kept popping up all the time in killspam. And this renown was very very important for the community building in DAoC. There where no player names on top of the players heads, but only their realmtitels. So while copying this part of DAoC they forgot about the thing that replaced it. Killspam, this allowed people to get renown and a name in PvP without being griefed because of their name getting recognised all the time. Things like this shows me that Arenanet hasn't fully understood what small things made RvR in DAoC so very very special. As allways it was the small things.

     

     

    THen the criticisme on kjeep doors taking to long to take down. actually she is not complaining about the keepdoors taking to long to take down, but she is complaining about the lack of action during this periode(espescially with undefended keeps), I think they should make the combat around keep doors (NPC part) more action involved. On top of that she complains that mellee people have no place in keep doors action, but she forgets there is no real mellee people (except the guardian) every player should have stacked a ranged weapon when RvRing and doing keep attcks/defenses.

     

     

    Good to finally hear someone that looks beyound the greatness of the first hours of this tremendous game. People that still think this game will be perfect are so wrong. However it will still be the best available MMO when it releases by far. And everyone will enjoy the game a lot. But i think there are certain things missing that will keep people from leaving. 

    Sad thing is with the no sub system, Anet will care less about people leaving then games with a subsystem, so i do not think these things will be repaired. DAoC did a tremendous job, changing the game to make it more and more atractive to players aover the first year after release.  They added things making the game more attractive to people with criticisme and not making it less attractive to people that allready where happy.

    So if Arenanet is truelly listening, they should also listen to this criticisme and not say its not going to happen.

     

     

    THEN WHY DIDN'T YOU POST THIS ON TEH OFFICIAL FORUMS =(

     

    Don't listen to the people who tell you this game will be the best or is perfect.

    Its a great game, but its not going to be no.1 for now, who knows whats in store for the future, best not to assume, haha.

    BUT GOD DAMN IT OP, WHY YOU NO POST TIS ON OFFICIAL FORUMS =(

  • UngoHumungoUngoHumungo Member Posts: 518

    Originally posted by Lord.Bachus

    Originally posted by Draftbeer

    What reward system do you want to see OP?

    I hope it's not the traditional one...

    I am not a big fan of gear progression... actually i can live with the current system.

     

    I am more a fan of character progression, and AA systems that are very subtle and accessible. And can be added after release. an AA system should function much like the RvR point system of DAoC, in which it adds only minor bonnuses, but a whole frackload of them, on a very non linear scale. In such a way that noboddy gets even close to the top levels of this system. And that there would allways be a carrot for those in need, but enough easy attainable points to keep the casual lot very happy.

    But there never should be differences between players that would allow lesser skilled players to gain an advantage on more skilled players based on their AA points.

     

    In the end there will be progression for everyone, even if it is just minor progression over long times. Most important for a system like this is that it does not force people to repeat the same content time after time after time.

     

     

    I am sorry alot of this seemed just like an incoherent ramble......you seem to be angry about things you couldn't possibly know for a 100% positive, my advice is calm down and during the next beta post on the official forums the devs had quite a presence on them during the beta

    There are times when one must ask themselves is it my passion that truly frightens you? Or your own?

  • QSatuQSatu Member UncommonPosts: 1,795


    Originally posted by Lord.Bachus

    Not having any real rewards will make many people leave the game.

    I wish people who post on this forum actually play more than 1 mmo. people didn't leave GW at endgame. there were still a lot of people grinding titles, geting cosmetic armours. People don't stay at games which have linear gear progression. Which was proven by many recent mmos.

    At the end of the day people will play the game if it's fun.

     

    Btw. Isn't pokket that swtor chick which makes idiotic commentaries and people watch her only b/c she's a chick?

  • Cod_EyeCod_Eye Member UncommonPosts: 1,016

    "Btw. Isn't pokket that swtor chick which makes idiotic commentaries and people watch her only b/c she's a chick?"

     

    Yip

  • The_KorriganThe_Korrigan Member RarePosts: 3,456

    Originally posted by QSatu

     

    Btw. Isn't pokket that swtor chick which makes idiotic commentaries and people watch her only b/c she's a chick?

    Pretty much, and to be honest, I couldn't stand more than a few seconds of the video and have only read the OP.

    There are a few like that in the MMORPG community sadly - there's that stupid one I won't name here from gamebreaker tv too which is as close to useless as a journalist can get, but who people watch because she's a chick.

    I've played and worked with a few real female gaming journalists notably on the vault network, and they are nothing like those puppets who only keep their job because of their female body advantages... but those websites know how to make the average teenager gamer "drool" and watch ;)

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  • RequiamerRequiamer Member Posts: 2,034

    For me gear grind is just a false problem. A big amount of people played Wow based on gear grind so they are sure they absolutly need it, other people that played Uo for the same amount of time will tell you they are not needed at all because this game had zero gear grind, everyone had the same crafted gear, and people played Uo for a longer time than Wow, but you know those are just 2 different generation, with 2 opposite experience here.

    Also people should understand that what make you want to make your avatar better is a psychological reaction, people learn all their life that making an effort to be better in whatever they do is good, that is all what games are about also. And this is probably the reason why people want their avatar to become better as well, since its their own projection right?. But what is silly here is when they put their projection or their avatar forward of themselves, this is just twisted and wrong imo. They want their avatar to be better than they are? I understand some poeple just want to relax and pass their time, without doing any effort whatsoever, and is probably why they just want their avatar to do all the work. But damn don't play games then, games are made for you to progress without risk, thats their goal, always have been, always will be, from kids games, adult games, sport games, musical games (you play an instrument right) and so on.

     

    If you guys just want to pass your time and do nothing, i mean go watch a movie or something, but stop asking for dummy gameplay and try to impose this as a mmo standard, claiming all over the place thats how games should be and effectively are. Because you guys are just wrong.

  • ValkaernValkaern Member UncommonPosts: 497

    Originally posted by Adalwulff

    I still dont understand the problem with name plates for the enemy.

    No, Anet did not forget that part when they copied the RvR from DAOC, I cant believe they would just "forget" that. When I think about it, the answer seems to be community.

    Anet has done alot to promote community and co-op, and I think having players not concentrating on the enemies name, and instead focusing on thier team, builds a stronger community and a better game.

    Also, since we are facing a new server every 2 weeks, it makes even more sense.

    Good point about different servers, it's not like you're facing the same 'Battlegroup' constantly.

    I honestly don't care about name plates one way or another, it's just a non issue, but it's pretty clear the person doing the linked write up would have benefitted from having knowledgable people to run things by before exposing herself as outright misinformed.

    I'd personally be too embarassed to pull that crap, and I'd be annoyed if I didn't know better and read her write up as being grounded in truth.

    Then again, if people that aren't even interested in GW2 are talking about it so much and investing in it as much as they are (around these forums especially), I guess it's free publicity. It'd be far worse if everyone just kind of ignored it as two other releases seem to be (one just released, the other out in May I believe?).

    This game doesn't take anything away from the people that still want more from traditional hamsterwheel gear grinds. There are plenty of WoW clones available to invest in, I guess they're not content with them after all and were hoping GW2 would satisfy them?

    There's no question that I had the most fun I've had in literally years, and absolutely felt more tied to my character and her progression than I did in other recent games like Swtor, which left me feeling I'd simply rented a character in the name of endlessly progressing through minor upgrades that were so careefully planned out they felt soulless - and identical to everyone elses.

  • GoldenArrowGoldenArrow Member UncommonPosts: 1,186

    Originally posted by Valkaern

    Originally posted by GoldenArrow

    Last time I said GW2 doesn't have an endgame I got a temp ban for it.

    So I'm bit uneasy about answering this topic.

    I can however say that the OP is exactly right in that most of the MMO gamers hunger for Gear/Character progression. GW2 has very little of these as you unlock all the weapon skills in few hours and get your favourite set of utilities in the following 5-6 hours. After this you get traits that impact your character and these are followed by ELITE skills at lv30 of which you can choose 1. People don't want to realise this and of course they can't see it since the BWE's are so short but the road rage will start 2-4 weeks after the launch once people have burned to the cap. Cosmetic/Achievement/Exploration junkies are a minority in MMO gamers.

    The people who know this and are not looking for anything else (i.e GW1 fans) will enjoy the game but the ignorant ones will get severely burned. Much like happened with SWTOR > hitting cap > nothing to do > rage > return to X mmo. GW2 has structured and WvWvW for those that are interested though.

    You won't find many people who think likewise from here because this is the major issue why people are completely disgusted by GW2 and don't want to go near it. 

    Having no endgame is the core mechanic of GW2 and people who are looking for an actual endgame and an awesome character/gear progression should head over to The Secret World which launches 19th of june ;)

    To each their own then, I felt more satisfying character progression in GW2 than in anything post WoW in which you play one game to max level, then bang your head against the ceiling for months in a different game and the *only* occasional progression you even see is the same raid bought gear everyone else has anyway. 

    Even in Rift which supposedly offered a wide variety of builds, every class ended up the same up through Akylios anyway.

    TSW? Really? I haven't seen many games that are less appealing.

    Either way I don't think it matters, it's clear from the tone of your posts you're on a very specfic crusade rather than interested in rationally discussing things.

    Yeah no matter what you say I won't change my opinions about GW2. I hate that game.

    But I also wish the very best for GW2 since it takes away "gamers" that I wouldn't want to see in the games I play.

    (Tera & TSW)

    Yeah Rift was an excellent attempt to create an interesting system. But they were a little short since the builds were completely restricted. Certain builds synced while others didn't, even skills that said to have increased ALL damage only affected a certain tree's skills. Rift was an amazing game but it fell flat when they reduced the difficulty into WoW. Vanilla Rift was the most fun I've had in a long time with MMORPGs. Trion is an excellent company but they went to please everyone in the end (unlike they said before launch). Funcom is a bad company but they've sticked to the difficulty and challenge. AoC dungeons/raids are most interesting and well balanced I've seen in a long time. And these have _never_ been nerfed.

    TSW doesn't really appeal to people who don't enjoy tweaking their builds and min/maxing. Some feel the setting of the game offputting aswell. In the end TSW has a lot wider character/gear progression and customization than GW2 will ever have :J

     

     

  • MosesZDMosesZD Member UncommonPosts: 1,361

    Originally posted by Lord.Bachus

    Originally posted by Veshi

    you watched the vid and what you came away with was you dont get rewarded enough? How about the amount of fun the player gets from it, is this not reward enough for money spent. When i pay to go to the cinema i dont expect to be rewarded with a back massage from the manager while i watch a film i wanna see.

    Yes, from past experiences i have learned that rewards are necessary to keep most of the MMO community playing for more then a few hundred hours.

     

    (your cinema comparisson goes wrong, as vissiting a cinema only takes about 2 hours, which still got you intoo the initial phase of the process.  Now compare it with a Harry Potter movie marathon with all the HP movies showing one after the other, is that still enough fun to keep most of the people seated for like 20 hours?)

     


    Originally posted by Ramanadjinn

    how do we know how long it is going to take for me to get all the end game gear i need?

    There is no real endgame gear in GW2.  You will find out when you are max level.

     

    Ah, ha ha ha ha ha...   Wrong.   MMOs are social experiences, not end-game experiences.    The number one driver of wWhat makes people quit is the lack of quality social experience.

     

    That's why so many behavioral psychologists are asked to analyze games by Blizzard, CCP, etc.   They need to understand WHY people stay and why they quit.   And the number one reason they quit is social network breakdown.

     

    That's why SWTOR is crashing.    The social network never came together.   They didn't understand it.   They didn't encourage it.   They just made thier on-line massively single-player game without doing anything to promote and sustain a large, integrated social network.    When people get tired of the story, they just leave.   There is no reason to stay.

     

     

  • GoldenArrowGoldenArrow Member UncommonPosts: 1,186

    SWTOR "crashed" because there was no endgame.

    You hit 50 and there was NOTHING TO DO.

    NO REASON TO LOGIN WHAT SO EVER.

    If nobody logs in, there's no "social enviroment" either.

    You can forget all the psychological mumbojumbo. The answer is a lot simpler.

  • SemibruceleeSemibrucelee Member Posts: 52

    I will agree if they don't add more pvp modes and maps.

  • mikahrmikahr Member Posts: 1,066

    Originally posted by GoldenArrow

    SWTOR "crashed" because there was no endgame.

    You hit 50 and there was NOTHING TO DO.

    NO REASON TO LOGIN WHAT SO EVER.

    If nobody logs in, there's no "social enviroment" either.

    You can forget all the psychological mumbojumbo. The answer is a lot simpler.

    Uh oh, SWTOR had classic gear grind endgame. PvE AND PvP one. It still does.

    In fact, it has everything OP (and you) want form "endgame character progression":

    Wonder why arent you playing SWTOR (or gazzillion of other failed gear centric MMOs out there).

    "MMOers" like you demanded gear grind for SWTOR long before launch. Now that you have it you dont want it.

    Its good that GW2 is different from that archaic and obsolete model.

  • ktanner3ktanner3 Member UncommonPosts: 4,063

    Originally posted by Lord.Bachus

    Originally posted by Djildjamesh

    Some making the assumption everyone expects to play this game for 7 years.

    If my first 150 hours on this game are going to be as amazing as i think they will  be. It'll be money good spend.

    I do agree with that.

     

    However, many people wil get upset, as they still want to play the game with the best game mechanics after those 150 hours. but they are missing the rewards system. It will give a very unruly community of MMO ers with no place to go. Playing the best game, and still feeling empty after playing it.  Just fun is not enough for the majorrity of the MMO players. and there will be an uprise as they dont want to leave the world of Tyria, but still feel unhappy and uncomplete in it.

    And that right there is the problem. There was a time when people played these games because they were fun. I grew up in the 80s, and back then most arcade games were a maze that you cleared and started all over again with maybe a few different skins. But we did it anyway because the gameplay was fun. You didn't complain that Dig Dug was a Pac-man clone or that super mario bros sucked because Donkey Kong wasn't in it.

    Games nowadays have better graphics than they ever have and more options than ever, yet the majority of MMO players get pissy if a game doesn't offer bigger ice cream cones for playing. Sad.

    Currently Playing: World of Warcraft

  • WickedjellyWickedjelly Member Posts: 4,990

    It will be interesting to see how Anet's take on itemization is received. People generally speaking seemed okay with the first game. Although this is a different era and frankly even from then people seem much more gear/stat oriented in these games anymore. Will be interesting to see how players handle that  and other matters such as the lack of a true trinity format used for grouping.

    1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.

    2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.

    3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.

  • ConnmacartConnmacart Member UncommonPosts: 722

    Originally posted by GoldenArrow

    Originally posted by Connmacart


    Originally posted by GoldenArrow

    Last time I said GW2 doesn't have an endgame I got a temp ban for it.

    So I'm bit uneasy about answering this topic.

    I can however say that the OP is exactly right in that most of the MMO gamers hunger for Gear/Character progression. GW2 has very little of these as you unlock all the weapon skills in few hours and get your favourite set of utilities in the following 5-6 hours. After this you get traits that impact your character and these are followed by ELITE skills at lv30 of which you can choose 1. People don't want to realise this and of course they can't see it since the BWE's are so short but the road rage will start 2-4 weeks after the launch once people have burned to the cap. Cosmetic/Achievement/Exploration junkies are a minority in MMO gamers.

    The people who know this and are not looking for anything else (i.e GW1 fans) will enjoy the game but the ignorant ones will get severely burned. Much like happened with SWTOR > hitting cap > nothing to do > rage > return to X mmo. GW2 has structured and WvWvW for those that are interested though.

    You won't find many people who think likewise from here because this is the major issue why people are completely disgusted by GW2 and don't want to go near it. 

    Having no endgame is the core mechanic of GW2 and people who are looking for an actual endgame and an awesome character/gear progression should head over to The Secret World which launches 19th of june ;)

    Sorry with that reasoning TSW has even more to fear. On top of that there is Funcom's abyssmal track record when it comes to MMO's. Have fun playing your broken game :)

    Care to clarify!?

    There are 525 abilities to unlock none of which are "useless" and it has a really steep gear grind which gets empowered by the need of getting different gear for every spec. The abilities are also tiered so you'll be getting better ones as you keep on playing.  I'd rather play a broken version of TSW than a perfectly working version of GW2.

    Seems like the only one you are truly trying to convince is yourself. 525 abilities and none are useless? I have well over that many skills on my ranger in GW1 and I use maybe 40. You will find that you will stick to the same few sets after a month or so and not deviate from them until they are changed.

    By your own account GW2 doesn't have much to do once you level to 80, well TSW will start you off there, you will see people road rage in TSW because there won't be any real progression. Just a lifeless disjointed world that forces you to grind and no people do not like gear grind. They might do the first tier, maybe even the second, but after that it will drop to a very small percentage due to the amount of dedication needed to keep on grinding. 

    But feel free to play TSW, I will play a game where I can choose who to play with regardless of where they live. Where the community will be helpful, because there is no competition between players. Even do a gear treadmill, because yes GW2 does have one, but it is a completely optional one.

    Finally Funcom has already proven that P2W is not something they shun. Just look at the AoC CS. Sure you might say it's not the best gear, but it will still give a clear advantage over someone who doesn't buy it when both of them are similar level and stats.

  • RodimusPrimeRodimusPrime Member Posts: 114

    Originally posted by MosesZD

    Originally posted by Lord.Bachus

    Originally posted by Veshi

    you watched the vid and what you came away with was you dont get rewarded enough? How about the amount of fun the player gets from it, is this not reward enough for money spent. When i pay to go to the cinema i dont expect to be rewarded with a back massage from the manager while i watch a film i wanna see.

    Yes, from past experiences i have learned that rewards are necessary to keep most of the MMO community playing for more then a few hundred hours.

     

    (your cinema comparisson goes wrong, as vissiting a cinema only takes about 2 hours, which still got you intoo the initial phase of the process.  Now compare it with a Harry Potter movie marathon with all the HP movies showing one after the other, is that still enough fun to keep most of the people seated for like 20 hours?)

     


    Originally posted by Ramanadjinn

    how do we know how long it is going to take for me to get all the end game gear i need?

    There is no real endgame gear in GW2.  You will find out when you are max level.

     

    Ah, ha ha ha ha ha...   Wrong.   MMOs are social experiences, not end-game experiences.    The number one driver of wWhat makes people quit is the lack of quality social experience.

     

    That's why so many behavioral psychologists are asked to analyze games by Blizzard, CCP, etc.   They need to understand WHY people stay and why they quit.   And the number one reason they quit is social network breakdown.

     

    That's why SWTOR is crashing.    The social network never came together.   They didn't understand it.   They didn't encourage it.   They just made thier on-line massively single-player game without doing anything to promote and sustain a large, integrated social network.    When people get tired of the story, they just leave.   There is no reason to stay.

     

     

     That is one of the things that worry me about GW2, I have read numerous accounts were DE were done without any social interaction.

  • ariboersmaariboersma Member Posts: 1,802

    Originally posted by colddog04

    Rewards scale with level. She was low level.

    this, and she made other mistakes about the basics of the game like melee having to stand around doing nothing and the bit where she is saying she was playing well using all her abilities and keeping them on cooldown.. while autoattacking and then she switched to earth which she had never used and then at least the autoattacking had a reason. I have tried to like Pokket.. mostly I do but after trying to watch her last live SWTOR bit.. whining about random PVP stuff the whole time I just couldn't and this hurt my opinion of her as a gamer. Oh well at least she isn't Kaeyi.

    Haha that door! makes me happy I wont be in WvW much but I think they said they were working on that part.

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  • ariboersmaariboersma Member Posts: 1,802

    Originally posted by RodimusPrime

    Originally posted by MosesZD


    Originally posted by Lord.Bachus


    Originally posted by Veshi

    you watched the vid and what you came away with was you dont get rewarded enough? How about the amount of fun the player gets from it, is this not reward enough for money spent. When i pay to go to the cinema i dont expect to be rewarded with a back massage from the manager while i watch a film i wanna see.

    Yes, from past experiences i have learned that rewards are necessary to keep most of the MMO community playing for more then a few hundred hours.

     

    (your cinema comparisson goes wrong, as vissiting a cinema only takes about 2 hours, which still got you intoo the initial phase of the process.  Now compare it with a Harry Potter movie marathon with all the HP movies showing one after the other, is that still enough fun to keep most of the people seated for like 20 hours?)

     


    Originally posted by Ramanadjinn

    how do we know how long it is going to take for me to get all the end game gear i need?

    There is no real endgame gear in GW2.  You will find out when you are max level.

     

    Ah, ha ha ha ha ha...   Wrong.   MMOs are social experiences, not end-game experiences.    The number one driver of wWhat makes people quit is the lack of quality social experience.

     

    That's why so many behavioral psychologists are asked to analyze games by Blizzard, CCP, etc.   They need to understand WHY people stay and why they quit.   And the number one reason they quit is social network breakdown.

     

    That's why SWTOR is crashing.    The social network never came together.   They didn't understand it.   They didn't encourage it.   They just made thier on-line massively single-player game without doing anything to promote and sustain a large, integrated social network.    When people get tired of the story, they just leave.   There is no reason to stay.

     That is one of the things that worry me about GW2, I have read numerous accounts were DE were done without any social interaction.

    you only read that by ppl that think you need to sit and have a pow wow over every mob kill.. the game is MADE for cooperation, helping each other! You aid each other in killing without having to worry about kill stealing or pissing off the person you are helping. Everyone can rez so that alone is interaction. There is no time to sit and chat in the middle of battle in GW2.. that is where this misconception comes from, people are way to used to afk autoattacking so they cant chat.

    image

  • dontadowdontadow Member UncommonPosts: 1,005

    Wow invented the word endgame. In real rPGs it doesnt exist.  MMORPGs should just be RPGs that allow other players to play with u. When people cry about 'endgame" they show their  slave mentality to the wow game model.  THey have so little concept of what an RPG is, that they use words that dont exist in the father genre. 

  • KuppaKuppa Member UncommonPosts: 3,292

    I do agree that rewards for both WvW and arena pvp should be looked at more carefully. I also think gates might need a bit more tweaking, but that could be also that we didn't find more effective ways to bust in to keeps. Now, saying arena pvp is just like battlegrounds.....big disagree. First, the combat itself works way to different for that comparison and second these battlegrounds are way more interactive than those I have seen in other mmos.

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