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Now that you've played the game, do think gems are buy to win?

BetakodoBetakodo Poor land, FLPosts: 338Member

At least in WvW, anyone seen how much siege weapons do? They keep you from the instakill zone around the gates that take like 10 minutes literally of you and a group spamming normal attacks. They did more damage I do by far and if it's not the ram, you can just lob your attacks from safety. Also, the link shows you can buy influence but it doesn't show the more damaging stuff you can do with influence, which is the WvW guild buffs bought with influence. Lastly for WvW, the commander position helps herd all of the people, especially when you can place markers and you get your own channel and the icon over your head. You have to pay lots of gold for that?

Should really add that some of the cash shop items still bug me too. Ex: they buffed the magic find boost item to 50% increased rare drop rate, the perfect salvage kit is better than all of the kits you can buy in the game, and they added repairing annoyance to the game but hey, you can just insta buy and use the instant repair canister anywhere except dungeons! Oh yeah, and you get 5 bag slots by default but if you can only get 2 more bag slots by buying them in the cash shop.

 

Pics of buy to win and BS cash shop items in link:

http://my.mmosite.com/1cd10251c16a43d090e2399862b464a2/blog/ritem/ad5e6ed86cc8937c54ab9b9a77ee7e48.html

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Comments

  • BaniscoBanisco LoquilandiaPosts: 240Member

    This again? how many times will people open this threads only to recibe the same answer:

    Nothing in the store is P2W, in WvW the gold required to buy blueprints can be easily obtainable at high lvls so there is no point on selling gems only to buy siege weapons.

  • Creslin321Creslin321 Baltimore, MDPosts: 5,359Member

    I have been opposed to gems for gold since the beginning and I still am.  I hate that crap, and seeing the power of siege weapons just reinforces it.  Yes you need supply to build them, but you also need gold.  And if you have a huge amount of gold that you bought with gems, you will be far more apt to spend your gold on siege weapons.

    Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?

  • KuppaKuppa Boulder, COPosts: 3,292Member Uncommon
    I think that if you play on a server that goes against my server its P2L 4 U...

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  • BetakodoBetakodo Poor land, FLPosts: 338Member

    Bansisco and guy below me, what about the gold to buy guild influence? What about the gold to get good equipment? Why can I only have 5 bag slots until I pay a company that I paid $60 to get 7 bag slots? And you didn't address the perfect salvage kits. What about the SIEGE weapons? They do like a thousand times more damage than I do in a single hit. Literally. Combine that with the range they fire from, you're safe from the fort defenders because you're outside of their range.

  • Enok4TwunniEnok4Twunni Joshua, TXPosts: 207Member
    Can any of you babies tell me how you win GW 2 by buying stupid boosts from the shop? Do you win when you hit max level faster? Do you win because you have something before other people? Explain the mentality behind this "win" idea people are getting from the shop. Go back to Bloons TD.
  • Loke666Loke666 MalmöPosts: 18,045Member Uncommon

    I really think we should start worrying about this when we actually seen the problem happen.

    The golden question is actually how hard it is to get those buffs without getting gold from gems, if it is really hard but you easily can get in from buying 50 bucks of gems each month it is a problem, if any good guild can get those buffs anyways it ain't.

    We are talking about a limited numbers of buffs here after all. If it becomes a problem I will agree that they need to change this but I wont be complaining about something before I know if it is a problem or not.

  • heartlessheartless Brooklyn, NYPosts: 4,993Member

    Originally posted by Loke666

    I really think we should start worrying about this when we actually seen the problem happen.

    The golden question is actually how hard it is to get those buffs without getting gold from gems, if it is really hard but you easily can get in from buying 50 bucks of gems each month it is a problem, if any good guild can get those buffs anyways it ain't.

    We are talking about a limited numbers of buffs here after all. If it becomes a problem I will agree that they need to change this but I wont be complaining about something before I know if it is a problem or not.

    Besides, the buffs only work near the keep and apply to the everyone defending it, not just the guild who purchased the buffs.

    All the other buffs like XP buffs and Karma buffs are a waste, in my opinion. I've never ran out of karma and was able to purchase everything I wanted from the vendors and XP is not really important. Skill challenges are.

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  • TGSOLTGSOL Idaho City, IDPosts: 274Member
    Some of that article is downright dishonest. For instance,

     

    "Additionally, your armor breaks when you die in PvE AND WvW. Want to walk alllll the way back to the armor repair NPC (Merchants didn't repair in the weekend event) and then walk alll the way back to what you were doing? Choose the wrong world and want to play with your friends? That'll be 1800 gems (Weekend event price)."

     

    You don't "walk all the way back to the armor repair NPC and then walk alll the way back to what you were doing." You teleport back and forth instantly. During the Beta, I had a waypoint unlocked RIGHT NEXT TO an armor repair NPC near my home instance, and there are waypoints next to nearly every DE in the game. Going back to repair and then returning to what I was doing took very little time.

     

    And paying for server transfers is common in practically every MMO. At least with gems you can conceivably transfer for free.

     

    Re: the exp potions, leveling is already rather fast compared to other MMO's, so it's not like you'll be stuck grinding for 100's of hours if you don't get exp pots like in other games. Also, the potions only boost the slowest form of exp gain: killing mobs. I don't see the big deal.

  • BaniscoBanisco LoquilandiaPosts: 240Member

    Originally posted by Betakodo

    What about the gold to buy guild influence? What about the gold to get good equipment? Why can I only have 5 bag slots until I pay a company that I paid $60 to get 7 bag slots? And you didn't address the perfect salvage kits.

    Watching a stream from a some guy (towliee?¿? i dont know he streams, also WoW and maibe Tera so if anyone knows correct me) he made a guild (the Hammer squad) and got like +1000 influence in one hour more or less, wich was a lot from the cost of the upgrades. The best equipement of the game can be obtained via DE, karma, dungeons, crafting, etc so having gold wont solve that. The bag thin may be a inconvenience but i think you could buy them with the 15$ you are saving because it has no fees. And the perfect salvage kits are not the only salvage kits in gme, also i dont know if they are obtainable via ingame.

    Just think you are not paying 15$ a week and you can use that money (or not) in buying the things you may need, i dont see the problem at all.

    Edit: as i first said, at high lvls the gold wont be a problem to buy blueprints,  like in every game.

  • DistopiaDistopia Baltimore, MDPosts: 16,916Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Creslin321

    I have been opposed to gems for gold since the beginning and I still am.  I hate that crap, and seeing the power of siege weapons just reinforces it.  Yes you need supply to build them, but you also need gold.  And if you have a huge amount of gold that you bought with gems, you will be far more apt to spend your gold on siege weapons.

    Shouldn't just look at gems here for that, essentially anything in the shop can be sold for gold. Keys, garments, etc... I'm sure many will earn their gold through those as well.

    As for it being P2W, we'll see. I don't think it will be but you never know.

    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson

    It is a sign of a defeated man, to attack at ones character in the face of logic and reason- Me

  • JuJutsuJuJutsu Toronto, ONPosts: 331Member

    Originally posted by enoch420

    Can any of you babies tell me how you win GW 2 by buying stupid boosts from the shop? Do you win when you hit max level faster? Do you win because you have something before other people? Explain the mentality behind this "win" idea people are getting from the shop. Go back to Bloons TD.

    Ok I'll try to explain it to you. Some games, such as GW2 have something called PvP (player versus player). In PvP, individuals and groups fight one another when an individual or group is defeated the other individual or group 'wins'. Pay-to-win refers to a situation where an individual or group uses real world money to buy an advantage so that they are more likely to win. If you have any other questions I'd be glad to help.

  • BetakodoBetakodo Poor land, FLPosts: 338Member

    Originally posted by TGSOL

    Some of that article is downright dishonest. For instance,

     

    "Additionally, your armor breaks when you die in PvE AND WvW. Want to walk alllll the way back to the armor repair NPC (Merchants didn't repair in the weekend event) and then walk alll the way back to what you were doing? Choose the wrong world and want to play with your friends? That'll be 1800 gems (Weekend event price)."

     

    You don't "walk all the way back to the armor repair NPC and then walk alll the way back to what you were doing." You teleport back and forth instantly. During the Beta, I had a waypoint unlocked RIGHT NEXT TO an armor repair NPC, and there are waypoints next to nearly every DE in the game. Going back to repair and then returning to what I was doing took very little time.

     

    And paying for server transfer is common in practically every MMO. At least with gems you can conceivably transfer for free.

     

    Re: the exp potions, leveling is already rather fast compared to other MMO's, and the potions only boost the slowest form of exp gain: killing mobs. I don't see the big deal.

     

    And lastly, the general idea of being able to sell gold for something like gems has already proven to work in other games. EVE, Spiral Knights, etc.

    You still have to pay for the teleport, or if you're in WvW I don't think there's any teleports outside of your base. And then there's the walk back to what you were doing, assuming in PvE you were away from the waypoints, and it seems like most places are. Also I played Spiral knights. The energy system was hell because you were limited in playing much like a stamina system unless you bought more stamina. Dropped that game after 2 days of being limited to play like 2 hours.

     

  • heartlessheartless Brooklyn, NYPosts: 4,993Member

    One thing I want to add is that at this point in time, no MMO is safe from becoming P2W. Almost all P2P MMOs have cash shops already and some do sell booster items already.

    Whatever is in GW2's cash shop, at least the game does not charge a monthly fee in addition.

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  • Creslin321Creslin321 Baltimore, MDPosts: 5,359Member

    Originally posted by Distopia

    Originally posted by Creslin321

    I have been opposed to gems for gold since the beginning and I still am.  I hate that crap, and seeing the power of siege weapons just reinforces it.  Yes you need supply to build them, but you also need gold.  And if you have a huge amount of gold that you bought with gems, you will be far more apt to spend your gold on siege weapons.

    Shouldn't just look at gems here for that, essentially anything in the shop can be sold for gold. Keys, garments, etc... I'm sure many will earn their gold through those as well.

    As for it being P2W, we'll see. I don't think it will be but you never know.

     I don't think it will be very P2W, but I think it will be a little P2W.

    Personally, I just hate the idea of paying to NOT play an ENTERTAINMENT product.  It just galls me, I can't really describe it.

    Every entertainment product in the history of my existence has REQUIRED money to experience.  And "work" has PROVIDED money and requires money to SKIP (i.e. leave).  Now entertainment products require money to SKIP.  It's like we've somehow made entertainment products into the "new work."

    Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?

  • BeansnBreadBeansnBread PshPosts: 5,503Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Betakodo

    Originally posted by TGSOL

    Some of that article is downright dishonest. For instance,

     

    "Additionally, your armor breaks when you die in PvE AND WvW. Want to walk alllll the way back to the armor repair NPC (Merchants didn't repair in the weekend event) and then walk alll the way back to what you were doing? Choose the wrong world and want to play with your friends? That'll be 1800 gems (Weekend event price)."

     

    You don't "walk all the way back to the armor repair NPC and then walk alll the way back to what you were doing." You teleport back and forth instantly. During the Beta, I had a waypoint unlocked RIGHT NEXT TO an armor repair NPC, and there are waypoints next to nearly every DE in the game. Going back to repair and then returning to what I was doing took very little time.

     

    And paying for server transfer is common in practically every MMO. At least with gems you can conceivably transfer for free.

     

    Re: the exp potions, leveling is already rather fast compared to other MMO's, and the potions only boost the slowest form of exp gain: killing mobs. I don't see the big deal.

     

    And lastly, the general idea of being able to sell gold for something like gems has already proven to work in other games. EVE, Spiral Knights, etc.

    You still have to pay for the teleport, or if you're in WvW I don't think there's any teleports outside of your base. And I played Spiral knights. The energy system was hell because you were limited in playing much like a stamina system unless you bought more stamina. Dropped that game after 2 days of being limited to play like 2 hours.

    The teleports were free in WvW for me. You can upgrade keeps so they get a teleport point.

  • BaniscoBanisco LoquilandiaPosts: 240Member

    Originally posted by JuJutsu

    Originally posted by enoch420

    Can any of you babies tell me how you win GW 2 by buying stupid boosts from the shop? Do you win when you hit max level faster? Do you win because you have something before other people? Explain the mentality behind this "win" idea people are getting from the shop. Go back to Bloons TD.

    Ok I'll try to explain it to you. Some games, such as GW2 have something called PvP (player versus player). In PvP, individuals and groups fight one another when an individual or group is defeated the other individual or group 'wins'. Pay-to-win refers to a situation where an individual or group uses real world money to buy an advantage so that they are more likely to win. If you have any other questions I'd be glad to help.

    Now is my time to help you, in GW2 as in no other game in PvP you get to max lvl by just entering, also in structured PvP you get maxed gear and all the skills unloked so all that matters is your skill as player.

    In WvW you get your HP maxed as if you were lvl 80 and your skills and gear remains the same you had, but you can lvl up your skills and gear by playing there.

  • WolvardsWolvards grants pass, ORPosts: 650Member
    Ok so by your definition it's pay2win, cool, be on your way. Me, i'm totally fine with it, because after 2 months everyone will have a steady income and the entire "siege P2W" aspect will be out the door, guilds will be leveling up by themselves anyways, you can't buy anything superior with gold or gems, or karma, but you can buy something that looks seksier, so in your terms, it's p2w, in mine, it's a damn good game that will take 2-4 months to level out, which for an MMO, is minimal in terms of longevity.

    The "Youtube Pro": Someone who watches video's on said subject, and obviously has a full understanding of what is being said about such subject.

  • AIMonsterAIMonster Apopka, FLPosts: 2,059Member

    I never thought they were "Pay to Win", but I've always been opposed to the non-cosmetic benefits you can get from them and still am.  They really should remove a large number of the items found in the cash shop.  Some are really bad (the ability to trade gold for gems and gems to gold for example - gold is essential in WvWvW and purchasing new gear and crafting materials) while others probably don't have as large an effect (EXP boosts just make you level faster, not a huge deal).  It doesn't really help that Arenanet sold us on this whole no subscription fee thing, yet with have a noticable (even if it's minor) difference between players who use the cash shop and those that do not.

    I could comment on my feelings about each individual item in the cash shop after having played the game enough to realize the benefits (and non-benefits), but I'm not going to as this would make the post a bit too bloated.

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  • chefdiablochefdiablo Barrie, ONPosts: 202Member

    So what?

    If someone on my server wants to spend their hard earned cash buying siege weapons to help our defense, I will not complain one bit. I do not have to spend my money. Will it suck to be on a server where no one will buy siege weapons? Perhaps, but the odds of that happening are very low. My experience in the free to play market leads me to believe that some people have way too much money to spend on virtual things and are all to happy to shell out the dough.

    Until this scenario is proven and actually in place we are just speculating on possibilities. Buying gems could be an advantage or it could just be a money sink for some people. 

    I do not see the value in converting my real money into pixels. Being poor in real life to be rich in a video game is a silly notion to me. I don't judge others for it though. 

    Siege weapons might be highly valued by the player base, or they could be rather easy to aquire through normal game play at higher levels. It is too early to call this pay to win. If this is a massive turn off for people, then there are other games to play and other places to play them. 

    You can't have everything.....where would you keep it?

  • DistopiaDistopia Baltimore, MDPosts: 16,916Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Creslin321

    Originally posted by Distopia

    Originally posted by Creslin321

    I have been opposed to gems for gold since the beginning and I still am.  I hate that crap, and seeing the power of siege weapons just reinforces it.  Yes you need supply to build them, but you also need gold.  And if you have a huge amount of gold that you bought with gems, you will be far more apt to spend your gold on siege weapons.

    Shouldn't just look at gems here for that, essentially anything in the shop can be sold for gold. Keys, garments, etc... I'm sure many will earn their gold through those as well.

    As for it being P2W, we'll see. I don't think it will be but you never know.

     I don't think it will be very P2W, but I think it will be a little P2W.

    Personally, I just hate the idea of paying to NOT play an ENTERTAINMENT product.  It just galls me, I can't really describe it.

    Every entertainment product in the history of my existence has REQUIRED money to experience.  And "work" has PROVIDED money and requires money to SKIP (i.e. leave).  Now entertainment products require money to SKIP.  It's like we've somehow made entertainment products into the "new work."

    Yeah I can agree with that as well, I've never been a fan of the idea for sure.

    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson

    It is a sign of a defeated man, to attack at ones character in the face of logic and reason- Me

  • Atlan99Atlan99 Calgary, ABPosts: 1,323Member

    Originally posted by Betakodo

    At least in WvW, anyone seen how much siege weapons do? They keep you from the instakill zone around the gates that take like 10 minutes literally of you and a group spamming normal attacks. They did more damage I do by far and if it's not the ram, you can just lob your attacks from safety. Also, the link shows you can buy influence but it doesn't show the more damaging stuff you can do with influence, which is the WvW guild buffs bought with influence. Lastly for WvW, the commander position helps herd all of the people, especially when you can place markers and you get your own channel and the icon over your head. You have to pay lots of gold for that?

    I saw a good post on this on the official forums.

    https://forum-en.guildwars2.com/forum/pvp/wuvwuv/Remove-gold-as-a-currency-in-WvW/page/1

    The solution offered is the removal of gold as a requirement for uprgrades in WvWvW.

  • cyress8cyress8 Croatia, VTPosts: 832Member

    Originally posted by Creslin321

    I have been opposed to gems for gold since the beginning and I still am.  I hate that crap, and seeing the power of siege weapons just reinforces it.  Yes you need supply to build them, but you also need gold.  And if you have a huge amount of gold that you bought with gems, you will be far more apt to spend your gold on siege weapons.

    I was able to constantly buy siege weaponry during my 15+ hours in it.  Gold is not a factor.  I put it like this.  I had around 40+ silver when I left V8 and constantly bought siege weapons whenever I had to go back to the main entrance.  Catapults cost 16 silver, arrow carts cost 4,  the ram cost 4, the cannon 8.  Do you really think people will be so poor where they cannot gain money.  Also, factor in that DE rewards scale in V8.  Last one I remember I gained around 2 silver and 20-30 copper at lvl 19.  19!  

    Once people are around 30 one defense DE will give you enough to buy a couple siege weapons.  People can fill their bags with nothing but siege weapons once they hit 80.  

    About that time people, trading gold for gems will not even be worth it just for the siege weapons.  You will be rolling in dough by then.

    Creslin, did you even do WvW?  Serious question because the weapons are freaking cheap!   The only hard thing was having supply which NO FREAKING BODY EVER CARRIED!!! Well up until the end of beta anyway.  People learned they need to keep this stuff around cause 1 or 2 catapults and cannons speed up knocking down doors alot freaking faster than beating on it.

    BOOYAKA!

  • VannorVannor YorkshirePosts: 2,970Member Uncommon

    Talking about this is pointless. Anyone with half a brain knows that buying gems for gold will make a very minor difference to WvW. But even if it does we won't even know it. It could be the guys on your side who just planted that battering ram and catapult. It could be tons of people on the green server. It could be you!

    Unless people are freely admitting they are buying gems just for gold then we won't even know whether or not it is affecting things. There will be people on every server doing it and helping 'all of us' out in WvW. You're all complaining about something you'll never be able to prove. The only way it would get noticable is if everyone who buys gems for gold all migrate to the same server.. which is very very unlikely. Even them you might not even notice it because the effect is so minor.

    End of the day though, I got to level 30 in one of the beta weekends and then I did a full 8 hours of WvW.. during those 8 hours I never ran out of money for blueprints. All my money had been earned in PvE.

  • RedempRedemp Hot Springs, ARPosts: 1,042Member

     I will be buying gems for my group, then that group will be randomly putting holes into keeps across the three maps.

    Daoc  ninja keep  takes ..... are back.

  • Ice-QueenIce-Queen USA, GAPosts: 2,451Member Uncommon
    Doesn't matter to me, I don't see it effecting the outcome of the battles very much.

    image

    What happens when you log off your characters????.....
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    Dark Age of Camelot

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