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Good news Melee's, things are going to change according to Anet

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  • Kaisen_DexxKaisen_Dexx Member UncommonPosts: 326

    Originally posted by colddog04

    Originally posted by Kaisen_Dexx

    Originally posted by colddog04

    Originally posted by Kaisen_Dexx

    I think the post here isn't really talking about warriors and armored melee much, as opposed to the elementalists. I can't think of any elementalist dagger skills that actively block attacks like the mesmer ability Blurred Frenzy, or the warrior's shield skills.

    Check out the focus earth skills for elementalist.

     

    http://www.gw2tools.com/skills#el;aaaaa;aaaaaaaaaaaaaaa;bcaa;aaaaa

    The focus skills are nice, but since elementalists can't weapon swap, you're going to either have 1 melee block ability, or none. Don't think its much to ask for to have a dagger based block.

    Yeah, their melee isn't very defensive at all in comparison to others. 

    Exactly, I love the 100% offense of the dual dagger elementalist (1001 ways to enter the fray, 0 to leave). Though, you really can't stay in the fray very long with no defensive skills. That's a huge part of what made the melee elementalist so squishy.

  • BeansnBreadBeansnBread Member EpicPosts: 7,254

    Originally posted by Elikal

    Originally posted by colddog04

    Originally posted by Elikal

    So let me get this straight.

    A melee class can wear plate mail and still be no tank?

    A ranged class like Elementalist or Ranger does LESS damange than a melee like Vanguard?

    Heavy armour does not protect you even with chain or plate better than cloth, so you have to move like a mokey?

    If people die all 2 min's it's their fault and the game is good?

    Oh and event scaling has still not been implemented? I recall how many time Trion assured their invasions are going to be scaled, and that never worked out.

     

    I'd say this game has some serious issues in the combat section. When a plate mail guy is squishy like a cloth type, and when melee classes make more damage than Mages or Rangers they got a few things wrong about games, I say.

    Blegh. You just sound confused. Half of your questions don't make sense.

     

    There are no tanks.

    Melee does indeed usually do more damage. Rangers and ele can melee too.

    Heavy armor does protect you more.

    You do have to avoid big attacks.

    People don't die in two minutes unless they aern't doing it right.

    Event scaling has been implemented. It needs further balancing.

     

    You're just so far off base it's difficult to know where you are getting your info from.

    Let me get one thing straight, no matter how much you guys think you here are representative, none of us here is! We are relatively strongly dedicated gamers, with much experience and "sufferability". The vast number of average players out there, dies a few times, fails a few times and tosses a game into the corner. Period. People are spoilt, to say it clear, WoW did this and nothing ain't ever going to turn the wheel of time back. That is why all this high nosed "oh you have to get BETTER", "you have to learn to dodge in time" just ain't gonna work. For you, yes. For the majority of the dedicated gamers here. But 90% of all MMO gamers never go to ANY forum, never care about all these things. They enter a game, try it out, and when they are frustrated they "decide with their feet": they go. Comprende? So all this "oh learn the game, if you fail you are stupid" is wasted, entirely and totally pointless. Sorry for sounding rude, but I try to get you guys back to reality. Gamers today have habits and expectations, and nothing makes the masses of average joe and jill more easily pissed off than breaking their habits. I think there are more people who quit a MMO over trivialities lik "M" not opening the map than you think.

    I was literally just answering your questions. You seem to not understand what is happning in game based on those questions. Your info about the game was literally just off.

     

    I don't know where all this "fail and stupid" commentary comes from, but it's not me. Have you even tried that game yet?

  • VoiidiinVoiidiin Member Posts: 817

    Originally posted by colddog04

    Originally posted by Elikal

    So let me get this straight.

    A melee class can wear plate mail and still be no tank?

    A ranged class like Elementalist or Ranger does LESS damange than a melee like Vanguard?

    Heavy armour does not protect you even with chain or plate better than cloth, so you have to move like a mokey?

    If people die all 2 min's it's their fault and the game is good?

    Oh and event scaling has still not been implemented? I recall how many time Trion assured their invasions are going to be scaled, and that never worked out.

     

    I'd say this game has some serious issues in the combat section. When a plate mail guy is squishy like a cloth type, and when melee classes make more damage than Mages or Rangers they got a few things wrong about games, I say.

    Blegh. You just sound confused. Half of your questions don't make sense.

     

    There are no tanks.

    Melee does indeed usually do more damage. Rangers and ele can melee too.

    Heavy armor does protect you more.

    You do have to avoid big attacks.

    People don't die in two minutes unless they aern't doing it right.

    Event scaling has been implemented. It needs further balancing.

     

    You're just so far off base it's difficult to know where you are getting your info from.

    I think he gets his information from the SWTOR forums.

    Lolipops !

  • maskedweaselmaskedweasel Member LegendaryPosts: 12,171

    The only melee class/weapon I had issues with was the Ranger using a sword in one hand and.. can't remember.. maybe a torch in the other?  But the sword was the problem....  

     

    The problem was.. the first sword skill you used locked you into combat, and he attacked so fast, you couldn't pull away.  It was combo after combo.... luckily the second move you got pulled you out of combat (and could push you back in)  and the third ability was a roll and backstab....

     

    But the first ability was horrendous because you couldn't pull away fast enough... even if you rolled away if you were close enough you'd be locked into a 3 hit combo.  I did not have that problem with any other melee class, and felt the guardian and warrior were really good -- my personal favorite was the guardian.

     

    Never went melee on the elementalist,  but even with a dagger, the elementalist still had mostly ranged abilities,  even if it was slightly closer range...  the whip is a really cool ability that looks good and does good damage. ... getting off topic....



  • maskedweaselmaskedweasel Member LegendaryPosts: 12,171

    Originally posted by Voiidiin

    Originally posted by colddog04

    Originally posted by Elikal

    So let me get this straight.

    A melee class can wear plate mail and still be no tank?

    A ranged class like Elementalist or Ranger does LESS damange than a melee like Vanguard?

    Heavy armour does not protect you even with chain or plate better than cloth, so you have to move like a mokey?

    If people die all 2 min's it's their fault and the game is good?

    Oh and event scaling has still not been implemented? I recall how many time Trion assured their invasions are going to be scaled, and that never worked out.

     

    I'd say this game has some serious issues in the combat section. When a plate mail guy is squishy like a cloth type, and when melee classes make more damage than Mages or Rangers they got a few things wrong about games, I say.

    Blegh. You just sound confused. Half of your questions don't make sense.

     

    There are no tanks.

    Melee does indeed usually do more damage. Rangers and ele can melee too.

    Heavy armor does protect you more.

    You do have to avoid big attacks.

    People don't die in two minutes unless they aern't doing it right.

    Event scaling has been implemented. It needs further balancing.

     

    You're just so far off base it's difficult to know where you are getting your info from.

    I think he gets his information from the SWTOR forums.

    He hasn't played the game,  he's just trying to understand it.

     

    Honestly though, I don't think Elikal would enjoy the combat  very much.  Its less action-y than DCUO,  but more action-y than SWTOR... and he didn't like DCUOs combat much... so I'd proceed with caution if I were him.



  • CrunkJuice2CrunkJuice2 Member Posts: 568

    "I think he gets his information from the SWTOR forums."

    i can honestly say.the swtor general discussion forum isnt really the most reliable source of information on the internet

     

    just sayin 

     

     

     

     

     

  • Kaisen_DexxKaisen_Dexx Member UncommonPosts: 326

    Originally posted by maskedweasel

    Never went melee on the elementalist,  but even with a dagger, the elementalist still had mostly ranged abilities,  even if it was slightly closer range...  the whip is a really cool ability that looks good and does good damage. ... getting off topic....

    This is somewhat true yes, the base auto attack on the lightning whip was ~300, which just just over twice the range of an auto attack from a warrior or guardian. You still have to be pretty close and get hit often enough. Also the fire auto attack attack has to be extremely close to hit a single target. Stance jumping helps immensely, but you're still going to get hit hard and often enough that lack of a block shows through.

     

    Atleast, that was my experience from a mere 10 levels of play. It could radically change later from traits and what not.

  • CrunkJuice2CrunkJuice2 Member Posts: 568
    "Originally posted by maskedweasel

    Never went melee on the elementalist,  but even with a dagger, the elementalist still had mostly ranged abilities,  even if it was slightly closer range...  the whip is a really cool ability that looks good and does good damage. ... getting off topic...."

     

    meh,ive heard some classes are alot better even though you can do both melee and ranged with them as eather just full melee.or full ranged i think

    cuz i had this discussion about melee mesmer.and i was told that was a bad idea

  • LobotomistLobotomist Member EpicPosts: 5,960

    As Mesmer VS Melee mob (PVP)

    They can not touch you ...

     

    So there is a risk factor



  • CrunkJuice2CrunkJuice2 Member Posts: 568

    Originally posted by Lobotomist

    As Mesmer VS Melee mob (PVP)

    They can not touch you ...

     

    So there is a risk factor

     

    ya,but i guess if you can cast and move with the actual caster classes in this game.then that really gets rid of the reason why ive not really liked playing casters in previous mmos.so ill probably end up just tryin out whatevers the best for a pvp mesmer

     

  • AIMonsterAIMonster Member UncommonPosts: 2,059

    This worries me.  Melee is ridiculously strong in PvP.  Buffing it is going to make it insane.  I used a lot of melee in PvE on my ranger and didn't have issue (just gear a little more towards toughness and vit) except on Champion MOBs which might need to be tuned down in terms of melee damage.  With Quickening Zephyr on a Ranger you can destroy any class without invulnerability in seconds in melee, and most specs also have a large amount of survivability on top of it.  Giving them more survivability without trading off the damage is going to make melee absolutely overpowered in Conquest.

     

  • DjildjameshDjildjamesh Member UncommonPosts: 406

    I noticed many MANY melee ( guardians and warriors ) trying to tank stuff.

    My girlfriend played a guardian and she didn't even have the dodge keybinded. Then again she could take quiet a beating compared to my elementalist. if i got hit by some sort of bigger attack i'd INSTANTLY loose 50%+ of my health :O   (when i was fire specced that is)

    I played with my girlfriend guardian all weekend and i quickly noticed 2 cenarios. If there were many melee mobs i was at a major advantage, compared to her, simply kiting and dodging them to their death ^^. But when their were 4 ranged mobs i'd OFTEN bite the dust.  I founded it REALLY hard trying to survive in those situation. Often the only way to survive was to get out of line of sight untill my heal was back up. While in the meantime my gf was getting hammered, but she really could get a massive beating compared to me without dieing.

    All in all, balance needs some work i'd say, but damn, i thought it was amazing :D The difference in classes and playstyles is one of the things i love most

  • ictownictown Member Posts: 123

    Personally, I thoguht there was no issue with melee and this whole range vs melee. I thought melee was fine the way it was. I was playing as a ranger with greatsword and longbow in structure pvp. It was generally obvious when I was in the mists training ground, melee did more damage than range. Greatsword has a very nice dps as well as sword/dagger. I spend good half hour kill training golems to pratice melee and melee is WAY FUN.

    Had a good time plowing through other classes. Mesmer was pain in the butt with their illusions and op ranged greatsword. Had an awesome battle with few warriors especially the one with hammer and his stunlocks.

    And the funny thing is that warrior I battled called me a tank because both of us refused to die...LOL, I don't think so, you have to be smart with the skills. 

    Overall, the game is a blast.

     

  • JoeyMMOJoeyMMO Member UncommonPosts: 1,326

    Originally posted by Elikal

    So let me get this straight.

    A melee class can wear plate mail and still be no tank?

    A ranged class like Elementalist or Ranger does LESS damange than a melee like Vanguard?

    Heavy armour does not protect you even with chain or plate better than cloth, so you have to move like a mokey?

    If people die all 2 min's it's their fault and the game is good?

    Oh and event scaling has still not been implemented? I recall how many time Trion assured their invasions are going to be scaled, and that never worked out.

     

    I'd say this game has some serious issues in the combat section. When a plate mail guy is squishy like a cloth type, and when melee classes make more damage than Mages or Rangers they got a few things wrong about games, I say.

     There are no tanks, you can't just stand there, take a beating and expect to live. Heavy armor does offer better protection than medium and light armor.

    There are no "melee classes" since they can all wield a melee weapon, or they're all "melee classes" so there's no distinction. There are no ranged classes, or they're all ranged. It depends on the weapon they're wielding. Ranged weapons deal less damage than melee weapons.

    The scaling has been implemented, but it has problems when there is a really large number of players participating. When there are hundreds of people there it's almost impossible to see some of the red circles and the damage was a bit over the top insta-killing large numbers of players. Apparently that's something they hadn't tried before. They'll be tweaking scaling to better handle those cases.

    It seems like you got more than a few things wrong about the game, not that I think you played it and would know anything about it.

    imageimage
  • JoeyMMOJoeyMMO Member UncommonPosts: 1,326

    Originally posted by Magnum2103

    This worries me.  Melee is ridiculously strong in PvP.  Buffing it is going to make it insane.  I used a lot of melee in PvE on my ranger and didn't have issue (just gear a little more towards toughness and vit) except on Champion MOBs which might need to be tuned down in terms of melee damage.  With Quickening Zephyr on a Ranger you can destroy any class without invulnerability in seconds in melee, and most specs also have a large amount of survivability on top of it.  Giving them more survivability without trading off the damage is going to make melee absolutely overpowered in Conquest.

     True, I hope they don't change melee too much because some people are still whining that they can't tank. Stick with the plan Anet! Let the players adapt to the system, don't turn the system into WoW because some want to be able to faceroll and win. Please!

    imageimage
  • aesperusaesperus Member UncommonPosts: 5,135

    Originally posted by Zylaxx

    New post from Jon Peters concernign the melee vs range debate going on and he had this to say:

    First, I really wish you wouldn't use such an obnoxious font. It's painful to read.

    Second, where did you get this link? Just curious.

     

    This list also kind of reflects my own view on the melee vs ranged debate. A lot of players just assume melee is worse, because ranged is easier. However, melee is extremely good in pvp if you know what you are doing. The biggest issue w/ ranged vs. melee comes in PvE encounters where you can barely see what's going on w/ the boss mob.

  • BeansnBreadBeansnBread Member EpicPosts: 7,254

    Originally posted by aesperus

    Originally posted by Zylaxx

    New post from Jon Peters concernign the melee vs range debate going on and he had this to say:

    First, I really wish you wouldn't use such an obnoxious font. It's painful to read.

    Second, where did you get this link? Just curious.

     

    This list also kind of reflects my own view on the melee vs ranged debate. A lot of players just assume melee is worse, because ranged is easier. However, melee is extremely good in pvp if you know what you are doing. The biggest issue w/ ranged vs. melee comes in PvE encounters where you can barely see what's going on w/ the boss mob.

    It's from the GW2 forums.

     

    https://forum-en.guildwars2.com/forum/game/gw2/Melee-vs-Ranged/page/1#post131324

  • hundejahrehundejahre Member Posts: 339

    I didn't do any WvWvW, but in regular PvE I didn't have any issues really. I died maybe a bit more than the ranged folks, but not much more, and as long as I watched my heath I was usually able to get out of the area in time as long as I wasn't covered in conditions (and I noticed plenty of traits to purge those, I just hadn't invested in any yet).

    In real play I'll definitely have to turn spell effects way down though, there were times I discovered I was hacking away at air while the mob had moved, but since I couldn't see the mob for all the effects going off at the area I totally missed it.

  • bowzef1990bowzef1990 Member Posts: 56

    i was a elementalist got to level 29

    i refused to use a staff my preferd weapon was daggers on main and off hand

    My traits was mainly fire

    it was hard class to play i had mix up my augment often combining Air with fire bouncing back and forward aslo had few defensive abillities a bubble that last for 3 hits and a mist spell tht helps me leave combat and heal  i do feel they need be little less squishy wen using daggers or something to making last longer  they can get 1hited easly i died often being close range in combat and squishy as hell

  • MMOExposedMMOExposed Member RarePosts: 7,384

    Originally posted by Elikal

    So let me get this straight.

    A melee class can wear plate mail and still be no tank?

    A ranged class like Elementalist or Ranger does LESS damange than a melee like Vanguard?

    Heavy armour does not protect you even with chain or plate better than cloth, so you have to move like a mokey?

    If people die all 2 min's it's their fault and the game is good?

    Oh and event scaling has still not been implemented? I recall how many time Trion assured their invasions are going to be scaled, and that never worked out.

     

    I'd say this game has some serious issues in the combat section. When a plate mail guy is squishy like a cloth type, and when melee classes make more damage than Mages or Rangers they got a few things wrong about games, I say.

    Also in the OP that didn't solve anything.

    the reality is there are many issues built into the game. I will try to explain.

     

    *Melee queue and Animation locks- also no casting Melee attacks while moving or they will be interrupted and go on Cooldown. Majr waste of major Cooldown.

    *Dodge mechanics don't work as intended- dodging simply doesn't work as intended. Based on invisible terrain mechanics, sometimes a dodge won't move you far at all. The way dodge mechanics were designed to work, the dodge doesn't actually dodge a attack. It simp,y makes you immune to the next attack. Problem with the mechanic, is that many times the game won't send you far with a dodge because of terrain issues, and also since just about all attacks are AoE, this makes the game read certain attacks as if they hit the target, even when dodging. Think of this as a double hit. First AoE hit was avoided by dodge, but the attack is still in animation, and the game reads it as a second hit after dodge fades.basically nulling the original dodge in the first place. You will see what I mean when you start dodging a lot of AoE in WvW as Melee.

    and yes, it's pretty stupid right now that Melee plated classes are so squishy right now. They have slightly more armor than Adventures.

    and I played Guardian. They have ranged? Lol. Range my ass!!! Staff is mid range up close weapon with nice AoE blast. No where near the range of even the Engineer's pistols. Only scepter has any good use at range, and even that is limited. You have a root and AoE attack, and the auto attack. That's it. Not that great as people making it out to be. guardians are Melee fighters. You will be up close if you fighting, but at range if you only play support.

    melee fighters get the hot target in WvW and PvE. Simple as that...

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  • ZylaxxZylaxx Member Posts: 2,574

    Originally posted by bowzef1990

    i was a elementalist got to level 29

    i refused to use a staff my preferd weapon was daggers on main and off hand

    My traits was mainly fire

    it was hard class to play i had mix up my augment often combining Air with fire bouncing back and forward aslo had few defensive abillities a bubble that last for 3 hits and a mist spell tht helps me leave combat and heal  i do feel they need be little less squishy wen using daggers or something to making last longer  they can get 1hited easly i died often being close range in combat and squishy as hell

    Swap to earth element when your out of Endurance and need to take a hit or 2.

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  • ZeroxinZeroxin Member UncommonPosts: 2,515

    I've always said exactly what Jon said. You've got to bring the conditions and skills for the job or else you'll be toast.

    I managed to kill the bosses in FoN solo several times because of my blind and block spamming. And now I've also figured I need a stun breaker which would help signficantly against stun spammers.

    This is not a game.

  • bowzef1990bowzef1990 Member Posts: 56

    Originally posted by Zylaxx

    Originally posted by bowzef1990

    i was a elementalist got to level 29

    i refused to use a staff my preferd weapon was daggers on main and off hand

    My traits was mainly fire

    it was hard class to play i had mix up my augment often combining Air with fire bouncing back and forward aslo had few defensive abillities a bubble that last for 3 hits and a mist spell tht helps me leave combat and heal  i do feel they need be little less squishy wen using daggers or something to making last longer  they can get 1hited easly i died often being close range in combat and squishy as hell

    Swap to earth element when your out of Endurance and need to take a hit or 2.

    i do i use all of them  i use the lgihting stun wen hit and then change to earth then il dodge out and heal or change to water and heal and use auto attack to decresse the deffence and back to fire doing lots of dmg

  • ZeroxinZeroxin Member UncommonPosts: 2,515

    Originally posted by MMOExposed

     

    Also in the OP that didn't solve anything.

    the reality is there are many issues built into the game. I will try to explain.

     

    *Melee queue and Animation locks- also no casting Melee attacks while moving or they will be interrupted and go on Cooldown. Majr waste of major Cooldown.

    *Dodge mechanics don't work as intended- dodging simply doesn't work as intended. Based on invisible terrain mechanics, sometimes a dodge won't move you far at all. The way dodge mechanics were designed to work, the dodge doesn't actually dodge a attack. It simp,y makes you immune to the next attack. Problem with the mechanic, is that many times the game won't send you far with a dodge because of terrain issues, and also since just about all attacks are AoE, this makes the game read certain attacks as if they hit the target, even when dodging. Think of this as a double hit. First AoE hit was avoided by dodge, but the attack is still in animation, and the game reads it as a second hit after dodge fades.basically nulling the original dodge in the first place. You will see what I mean when you start dodging a lot of AoE in WvW as Melee.

    and yes, it's pretty stupid right now that Melee plated classes are so squishy right now. They have slightly more armor than Adventures.

    and I played Guardian. They have ranged? Lol. Range my ass!!! Staff is mid range up close weapon with nice AoE blast. No where near the range of even the Engineer's pistols. Only scepter has any good use at range, and even that is limited. You have a root and AoE attack, and the auto attack. That's it. Not that great as people making it out to be. guardians are Melee fighters. You will be up close if you fighting, but at range if you only play support.

    melee fighters get the hot target in WvW and PvE. Simple as that...

    How many times will we tell you?

    Dodging works like a charm. The only time a dodge doesn't move you far is if you are crippled or chilled.

    Only certain abilities can be used on the move and you have a lot of abilities that move you. If those abilities could be used on the move, some particular melee set-ups would be extremely deadly. This is something "If you can't stun, they'll run". Stun (immobilize, daze, stun) and then get yourself in range to use the ability. It's about the player not the game.

    EDIT: I also played the Guardian extensively and I can say I was pretty good with the character because I really managed to put a lot of kiters in the ground and this is because I had a set-up built for taking kiters regardless of whether they are near me or they are far away. I flopped a few times though and that was mainly because I was using my camera look (hold right mouse button) whilst trying to cast immobilization which Jon just said was a bad idea. I also played a Ranger in melee (Greatsword, Sword/Dagger) and I managed to make a minion master run for his soul even though he was kiting me like crazy.

    This is not a game.

  • dllddlld Member UncommonPosts: 615

    "It worked for the last ~30 years of PnP and computer games. For 30 years the idea of games is: if you are a warrior type of class, you don't HAVE to jump and dodge, because you have a frigging platemail! Why go against everything we know that it worked perfectly for decades? Turning that upside down, sounds like trying to re-invent the wheel: a verystupid idea."

     

    I'm glad to see that go, I don't see how anyone thinks a two story building high giant smashing a club the size of a car straight down ontop of a human in plate repeatedly for minutes yet he still stands there almost unharmed is a good and "perfect" thing.

    Warriors can take more damage due to higher armor but if a hit would flatten an elementalist in one hit then likely it would flatten a warrior too.

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