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anyone else think the combat left something to be desired?

2

Comments

  • NBlitzNBlitz Member Posts: 1,904

    Wow, so many responses and not a single one brought up something that was kind of bothering me.

    Maybe it's because I need to L2P some more? But I found myself having to kite way too much when it came to melee mobs (which there are many of!).

     

    I tried melee weapons as a mesmer but if there were more than 1 mob I was screwed and had to run away to kite yet again.

     

    Tackling two animals (ultimately I got spanked) and shortly thereafter a veteran was hot after me and someone else. After the guy resurrected I said screw it and ran in circles while I was being chased while he DPSed him down. I could've crippled the veteran but it lasts so shortly, omg.

     

  • HomituHomitu Member UncommonPosts: 2,030
    All abilities were going off at my command when I wanted them to for me.  
  • SikhanderSikhander Member UncommonPosts: 220

    Originally posted by NBlitz

    Wow, so many responses and not a single one brought up something that was kind of bothering me.

    Maybe it's because I need to L2P some more? But I found myself having to kite way too much when it came to melee mobs (which there are many of!). 

    I love that your attacks are frontal as melee and directed towards your target as ranged - and that you hit what is in front of you or in the line of fire as range.

    The implication is of course that by moving you avoid damage by flanking/coming from behind against your enemies (note that this is true for ranged attacks as well - no homing fire balls/ fost bolts) but I just love that tactical level of combat - and it means that even as melee that hamstring/cripple/slow condition is key since you can outflank your enemy then and hence avoid taking damage.

    The more I played GW2 during the week end the more I felt that finally a game has got the merge between MMO and action RPG just right - but like you say you move alot as a consequence :)

  • MargraveMargrave Member RarePosts: 1,359
    GW2 and Tera both have great combat. I personally prefer the GW2 version. To each their own. Not every game is for every person...
  • VolkonVolkon Member UncommonPosts: 3,748

    Originally posted by Sector13

    Not a single person in my gaming group enjoyed the combat of GW2. Only one of them found the game not complete disappointing. 

    I hope the two of you are happy settling for Tera then.

    Oderint, dum metuant.

  • VolkonVolkon Member UncommonPosts: 3,748

    Originally posted by NBlitz

    Wow, so many responses and not a single one brought up something that was kind of bothering me.

    Maybe it's because I need to L2P some more? But I found myself having to kite way too much when it came to melee mobs (which there are many of!).

     

    I tried melee weapons as a mesmer but if there were more than 1 mob I was screwed and had to run away to kite yet again.

     

    Tackling two animals (ultimately I got spanked) and shortly thereafter a veteran was hot after me and someone else. After the guy resurrected I said screw it and ran in circles while I was being chased while he DPSed him down. I could've crippled the veteran but it lasts so shortly, omg.

     

    As melee, it's designed so that you have to stick and move, so to speak. You're not meant to stand there and take the damage. Use defensive skills or dodging when you see the enemy wind up a big attack. Jump in, crack a skull, back off and set up the next one. Hit like a truck, move like a Porsche.

    Oderint, dum metuant.

  • PNM_JenningsPNM_Jennings Member UncommonPosts: 1,093

    Originally posted by justinope

    I dunno, it just seems like I wanted so much to love this game (long time arenanet fan, gw1 was my first mmo) but for me  the problem was that the combat felt so incredibly unresponsive. Did anyone else feel this way? It just seems like there are barely any instant attacks at all along with a bunch of attacks with swing timers and such. It honestly reminds me of LOTRO's combat system which I loathe. 

    I mean I could just be spoiled by TERA's awesomely responive combat system and trying to hold it to those (unrealistic?) standards. Everyone in my guild even said "wow really" at the tab targeting and I'm forced to agree with them.

     

    Regardless though, what does everyone else think?

    i thought the combat overall was awesome, but i agree. there was some unresponsiveness there that got on my nerves. it felt mostly like some fort of lag, so i'm thinking it'll be ironed out before launch.

  • DawnstarDawnstar Member UncommonPosts: 207

    Originally posted by merieke82

    I had a similar experience as the OP.

    I tried every class both in PvE and PvP and noticed that there was an ability delay. There was a .5-.75 second delay before instants would fire or a channeled ability would start.

    After practice you sort of just account for it and it doesn't become a big deal. I'm still not entirely certain if this is an intended mechanic or a weekend stability issue. All MMOs handle combat differently. You can allow abilities to fire the animation instantly and then let the server catch up so that it looks fluid, or you can wait until you get a server response before letting it animate.

    Does anyone have insight into how GW2 handles combat and whether the results from this weekend were expected?

    I experienced an ability delay sometimes and somtimes there was no delay on the same skills, so I figured it was lag issues (I experienced a fair bit of lag over the weekend).  My biggest gripe was the overflow servers breaking up my team.  Then again we're talking beta here.  I suspect a lot of people were expecting the game to play like a finished product and were disappointed when it didn't.

  • ValkaernValkaern Member UncommonPosts: 497

    We clearly have different taste, so I'm not sure it's entirely the fault of either game, but more a matter of preference.

    My wife and I had decided to try Tera until GW2 finally released ('how bad could it be?', we'd figured). We hadn't really followed Tera, just saw it and assumed it'd be a standard MMO but with what could be the addition of a fun combat system. So we watched some videos and looked into it a bit more as prior to that we'd only been familiar with it through articles here and on Massively, and decided to try the beta weekend before ordering.

    We tried it the first night of the weekend and had second thoughts, tried it again the next day when we were less tired and it was clear it wasn't for us. A lot of people clearly seem to enjoy Teras combat, but for us it just didn't click. It felt forced and clunky and more restrictive than we'd anticipated. Which is unfortunate, ideally we would have liked something to play until GW2s release that was atleast co-op if not an MMO.

    GW2, in comparison for us, was the polar opposite. Every action felt responsive, smooth, satisfying and fun. We'd bought GW1 and played for maybe 8 hours total over the years since it's release, it just wasn't for us. So naturally when GW2 was announced I thought, so what? I would think possibly the low expectations and the fact that I hadn't been anticipating this game could be part of the reason we were so absolutely impressed with just about every detail. But then again, we hadn't ever cared about or anticipated Tera either, we knew about BAMs and that it supposedly had a more action oriented combat. All in all, Tera just felt like something we'd played elsewhere a thousand times before, only this version wasn't quite as deep. The community on our server was a bit hostile as well judging by the general chat, and constantly being followed around by people spamming duel requests was a bit annoying, even after a polite 'No thanks, we're in the middle of something'. I really liked the graphics, and the world itself looked very nicely done, but that's not really enough for us.

    Regardless, I can't imagine people disliking the combat in GW2. We found it to be so fluid and well done - and addictive, we're climbing the walls here desperate for anything to tide us over till it's release but having a hard time enjoying anything after playing GW2 first hand.

    So, I think it only further illustrates that despite all the wars waged on these forums by the different camps, sometimes it all just comes down to personal taste, and there's no right or wrong when it comes to that.

    By the way, you seem to be under the impression you need to tab target in GW2. Just to clarify, that's an option that's available but skills and abilities work just as well without targetting. Which would be understandable, it's a new game and it does quite a few things differently than standard MMOs so you may not have picked up on all the ins and outs in just a few days.

  • AIMonsterAIMonster Member UncommonPosts: 2,059

    Originally posted by NBlitz

    Wow, so many responses and not a single one brought up something that was kind of bothering me.

    Maybe it's because I need to L2P some more? But I found myself having to kite way too much when it came to melee mobs (which there are many of!).

     

    I tried melee weapons as a mesmer but if there were more than 1 mob I was screwed and had to run away to kite yet again.

     

    Tackling two animals (ultimately I got spanked) and shortly thereafter a veteran was hot after me and someone else. After the guy resurrected I said screw it and ran in circles while I was being chased while he DPSed him down. I could've crippled the veteran but it lasts so shortly, omg.

     

    Your gear is extremely important.  If you aren't playing a kite heavy spec you need to gear for toughness and vitality (you'll still do more damage than ranged) to survive and be really aware (melee is a lot harder than ranged) of attacks that do a lot of damage.  Speccing into condition removal so you don't get killed by CC is a good idea also.  On my Ranger I used sword/warhorn along with a trap spec.  The sword gave me abilities that would evade attacks (so it was like having two extra dodge rolls that also did damage) and the frost trap greatly reduced damage the MOBs would do by reducing their skill recharge rate which works on their auto attacks too.  Spec could handle 4 normals my level and veterans my level without issue.  Anything beyond that required a mix of kiting (short bow) and melee.

    More on topic, GW2 had the best MMO combat I've seen so far including TERA.  There is still some work to be done on certain abilities, but overall the combat felt really satisifying compared to other MMOs.


  • Originally posted by remyburke

    Originally posted by gestalt11

    Originally posted by remyburke

    GW2's combat is ok, but I think in their current states, TERA wins hands down. I'm not sure if I like weapon switching in combat. We'll see if it grows on me. Overall, GW2's combat is pretty sloppy and clunky atm. I'm sure they'll clean it up though.

    Wow, you aren't sure you like weapon switching?

     

    Without weapon switching I would have been like 25-50% less effective.  You if you aren't weapon switching properly I don't think you really fully evaluated what you can do in combat.

     

    It like saying you don't like trying to hit baseballs with a bat because you only swing it with one hand.

    Ya, like I said, it'll have to grow on me. i was doing it, because I noticed the increase in output, but I often use weapons to define my character. Having to juggle weapons just to be effective isn't something I'm thrilled about.

     

    Well i can understand where you are coming from and I think its actually extremely common.  As I said in my write up it took me 10 to start clicking on Mesmer and it took me about 20 hours of solid nonstop game play to fully grasp all the stuff I can do with my eventual final weapon combo.

    I had a necro up to 7 and I did not get to the point where I really fully get that clicking before I swtiched to Mesmer

     

    I strongly believe alot of the issues people are having with combat is a combination of not getting high enough/time enough  and fight the really easy level 7 and below mobs.

     

    As for defining myself with a weapon I can't really sympathize there and many types of Iconic fighters use two types of weapons. 

    1800s cavalry had swords and pistols.

    Ninja use all sorts of things sword shurken, bombs

    Samurai are often seen as swordsmen but the usage of the horsebow was considered something all true samurai were proficient with (and that funny lopsided bow they used is really hard to shoot).

    Most Knights were proficient with lance, sword and mace.

    Most archers carried a shortsword.

    etc etc

     

     


  • Originally posted by Volkon

    Originally posted by NBlitz

    Wow, so many responses and not a single one brought up something that was kind of bothering me.

    Maybe it's because I need to L2P some more? But I found myself having to kite way too much when it came to melee mobs (which there are many of!).

     

    I tried melee weapons as a mesmer but if there were more than 1 mob I was screwed and had to run away to kite yet again.

     

    Tackling two animals (ultimately I got spanked) and shortly thereafter a veteran was hot after me and someone else. After the guy resurrected I said screw it and ran in circles while I was being chased while he DPSed him down. I could've crippled the veteran but it lasts so shortly, omg.

     

    As melee, it's designed so that you have to stick and move, so to speak. You're not meant to stand there and take the damage. Use defensive skills or dodging when you see the enemy wind up a big attack. Jump in, crack a skull, back off and set up the next one. Hit like a truck, move like a Porsche.

    This is the way it should be.  Any fighter who just stands there and takes a beating is incompetent.  Most MMORPGs have encouraged and enshrined incompetent fighting.

  • CaponestyleCaponestyle Member UncommonPosts: 112
    I would have like to have seen better finishing moves. and a lockout so first person who clicks it gets it not 10 guys all huddling around to do the same finishing moves.
  • silvermembersilvermember Member UncommonPosts: 526

    Originally posted by NBlitz

    Wow, so many responses and not a single one brought up something that was kind of bothering me.

    Maybe it's because I need to L2P some more? But I found myself having to kite way too much when it came to melee mobs (which there are many of!).

     

    I tried melee weapons as a mesmer but if there were more than 1 mob I was screwed and had to run away to kite yet again.

     

    Tackling two animals (ultimately I got spanked) and shortly thereafter a veteran was hot after me and someone else. After the guy resurrected I said screw it and ran in circles while I was being chased while he DPSed him down. I could've crippled the veteran but it lasts so shortly, omg.

     

    It is because you need to L2play the game properly and not go into guild wars 2 thinking its like WoW or Tera. You are never meant to stand in place and hit wack a mole with the mob till it dies, if you do the 9/10 times the mob will win. I played an elementalist Dagger/dagger and a mesmer Sword/Sword, did I died a lot when I was being stupid, the game is design to punish you for improperly use your skills.  I always made sure I had a blind either in my weapon set or Ultitiy skill bar and melees weapons usually come with a free "run for your life" skill for the "Oh shit" moments. Also the key to guild wars 2 combat is switching skills, its never a good idea to run into combat with both weapon sets as melee, I usually run with a melee and medium range weapon set for my mesmer. For my elementalist since they dont weapon switch, they have a great skill to close called ride the lightning.

    Also I should add that in the beta the mobs skill were more in favor of melee than range, which Arenanet already admitted to that. But never the less the player needs to be smart and know when to fight and when to run, tanking doesnt get you anywhere.

    to the others that say melee requires kiting where though, in a action game (guild wars 2 is a pseudo action game) you have to make advantage of your moment. If you want stand and wack a more, I m assure Tera will be sufficient, you can even play a lancer, they are good at standing and hitting stuff.

  • NBlitzNBlitz Member Posts: 1,904

    Originally posted by silvermember

    Originally posted by NBlitz

    Wow, so many responses and not a single one brought up something that was kind of bothering me.

    Maybe it's because I need to L2P some more? But I found myself having to kite way too much when it came to melee mobs (which there are many of!).

     

    I tried melee weapons as a mesmer but if there were more than 1 mob I was screwed and had to run away to kite yet again.

     

    Tackling two animals (ultimately I got spanked) and shortly thereafter a veteran was hot after me and someone else. After the guy resurrected I said screw it and ran in circles while I was being chased while he DPSed him down. I could've crippled the veteran but it lasts so shortly, omg.

     

    It is because you need to L2play the game properly and not go into guild wars 2 thinking its like WoW or Tera. You are never meant to stand in place and hit wack a mole with the mob till it dies, if you do the 9/10 times the mob will win. I played an elementalist Dagger/dagger and a mesmer Sword/Sword, did I died a lot when I was being stupid, the game is design to punish you for improperly use your skills.  I always made sure I had a blind either in my weapon set or Ultitiy skill bar and melees weapons usually come with a free "run for your life" skill for the "Oh shit" moments. Also the key to guild wars 2 combat is switching skills, its never a good idea to run into combat with both weapon sets as melee, I usually run with a melee and medium range weapon set for my mesmer. For my elementalist since they dont weapon switch, they have a great skill to close called ride the lightning.

    You didn't even take the time to watch the video.

  • MMOExposedMMOExposed Member RarePosts: 7,384

    Originally posted by justinope

    I dunno, it just seems like I wanted so much to love this game (long time arenanet fan, gw1 was my first mmo) but for me  the problem was that the combat felt so incredibly unresponsive. Did anyone else feel this way? It just seems like there are barely any instant attacks at all along with a bunch of attacks with swing timers and such. It honestly reminds me of LOTRO's combat system which I loathe. 

    I mean I could just be spoiled by TERA's awesomely responive combat system and trying to hold it to those (unrealistic?) standards. Everyone in my guild even said "wow really" at the tab targeting and I'm forced to agree with them.

     

    Regardless though, what does everyone else think?

    Wait what?

    How can you be a GW1 fan yet complain about a lack of Instant Attacks? GW1 had the same thing....

     

    Also how can GW1 be your first MMO, when its not a MMO?

    Philosophy of MMO Game Design

  • hundejahrehundejahre Member Posts: 339


    Originally posted by justinope
    I dunno, it just seems like I wanted so much to love this game (long time arenanet fan, gw1 was my first mmo) but for me  the problem was that the combat felt so incredibly unresponsive. Did anyone else feel this way? It just seems like there are barely any instant attacks at all along with a bunch of attacks with swing timers and such. It honestly reminds me of LOTRO's combat system which I loathe. 
    I mean I could just be spoiled by TERA's awesomely responive combat system and trying to hold it to those (unrealistic?) standards. Everyone in my guild even said "wow really" at the tab targeting and I'm forced to agree with them.
     
    Regardless though, what does everyone else think?

    I liked the combat. The only thing I tried and hated was the engineer flame kit, that was craptacular. On my guardian, the two handed hammer seemed a little slow, but I think that's as intended.

  • evianwaterevianwater Member UncommonPosts: 308

    I loved the combat skills. 

     

    My gripe is the dodge mechanic..it seems kind of..tacked on. Especially in PvE. It's not dodging..its rolling away. I'd have prefered some sort of anticipation parry/dodge type mechanics instead of the random roll.

     

    I also loved the wide array of weapons you could use, and how you gained skills with them (Through use) I thought that was really nifty.

  • doragon86doragon86 Member UncommonPosts: 589

    Originally posted by evianwater

    I loved the combat skills. 

     

    My gripe is the dodge mechanic..it seems kind of..tacked on. Especially in PvE. It's not dodging..its rolling away. I'd have prefered some sort of anticipation parry/dodge type mechanics instead of the random roll.

     

    I also loved the wide array of weapons you could use, and how you gained skills with them (Through use) I thought that was really nifty.

    I agree with you. It was more of a quasi dodging system instead of an actual dodging system. I honestly think it's part of the reason people who were using melee weapons had more issues compared to those using ranged weapons. 

    "For the Angel of Death spread his wings on the blast,
    And breathed in the face of the foe as he passed:
    And the eyes of the sleepers waxed deadly and chill,
    And their hearts but once heaved, and for ever grew still!"
    ~Lord George Gordon Byron

  • Eir_SEir_S Member UncommonPosts: 4,440
    It felt weird when I first started playing my first profession (Guardian) but I got used to it fast and now it's hard to log in to anything else.. but like I've said, I wish they gave you more stamina with which to perform dodges.
  • BadSpockBadSpock Member UncommonPosts: 7,979

    Let's see...

    TERA - point at mob with mouse, use the exact same rotation of any typical fantasy MMO skills over and over and hit one button to dodge or block when the mob spends 2-3 seconds glowing telling you "hey, dumby, I'm going to hit you now."

    All while being locked in place without being able to move while you are doing an over the top anime animation with a weapon 2-3 times your size.

    Rely on gear, levels, HP potions, and pocket healers (especially for PvP.)

     

    GW2 - nearly every attack can be done on the move (and most likely should be), you still have to aim yourself at the mob(s) and can hit multiple un-targetted enemies without tab-target with a lot of skills.

    You don't get infinite dodge/block and have to choose when to use it tactically, as well as get traits/perks to make your dodge do different things to be more useful (stealth, heals, phantasms, buffs, debuffs, damaging attacks, etc.

    All classes (professions) are self suffient and can combo off of each other without having to be in a group, there are no pocket healers or tanks to hold aggro for you so you can face roll your DPS rotations.

     

    So let's see...

    Static, traditional trinity based combat with an action/aiming gimmick - TERA

    Something new and different, a new model all together - GW2

    You decide.


  • Originally posted by evianwater

    I loved the combat skills. 

     

    My gripe is the dodge mechanic..it seems kind of..tacked on. Especially in PvE. It's not dodging..its rolling away. I'd have prefered some sort of anticipation parry/dodge type mechanics instead of the random roll.

     

    I also loved the wide array of weapons you could use, and how you gained skills with them (Through use) I thought that was really nifty.

    I am not sure I understand, they already have skills that block/evade.  And how is dodge random?

  • GrayGhost79GrayGhost79 Member UncommonPosts: 4,775

    Originally posted by doragon86

    Originally posted by evianwater

    I loved the combat skills. 

     

    My gripe is the dodge mechanic..it seems kind of..tacked on. Especially in PvE. It's not dodging..its rolling away. I'd have prefered some sort of anticipation parry/dodge type mechanics instead of the random roll.

     

    I also loved the wide array of weapons you could use, and how you gained skills with them (Through use) I thought that was really nifty.

    I agree with you. It was more of a quasi dodging system instead of an actual dodging system. I honestly think it's part of the reason people who were using melee weapons had more issues compared to those using ranged weapons. 

    Honestly a good melee won't have much issue, at least I didn't and I'm really nothing special. What I did was weapon swap :P I dodge the big attacks, unload on the mob, when my life got low or I didn't have the stamina to dodge it's knockback+weapon swap to range or weapon swap to range then knock back and then I'm ranged.

    Tanking is simply not an option at least not for extended periods of time. You got to utilize those utility abilities and you have to utilize your arsenal.

    Dodge actually isn't to bad, not great but not awful. It's simply another ability at your disposal so you can't look at it as a standalone mechanic to get you out of trouble.

  • DeolusDeolus Member UncommonPosts: 392

    Originally posted by NBlitz

    Originally posted by silvermember

    Originally posted by NBlitz

    Wow, so many responses and not a single one brought up something that was kind of bothering me.

    Maybe it's because I need to L2P some more? But I found myself having to kite way too much when it came to melee mobs (which there are many of!).

     

    I tried melee weapons as a mesmer but if there were more than 1 mob I was screwed and had to run away to kite yet again.

     

    Tackling two animals (ultimately I got spanked) and shortly thereafter a veteran was hot after me and someone else. After the guy resurrected I said screw it and ran in circles while I was being chased while he DPSed him down. I could've crippled the veteran but it lasts so shortly, omg.

     

    It is because you need to L2play the game properly and not go into guild wars 2 thinking its like WoW or Tera. You are never meant to stand in place and hit wack a mole with the mob till it dies, if you do the 9/10 times the mob will win. I played an elementalist Dagger/dagger and a mesmer Sword/Sword, did I died a lot when I was being stupid, the game is design to punish you for improperly use your skills.  I always made sure I had a blind either in my weapon set or Ultitiy skill bar and melees weapons usually come with a free "run for your life" skill for the "Oh shit" moments. Also the key to guild wars 2 combat is switching skills, its never a good idea to run into combat with both weapon sets as melee, I usually run with a melee and medium range weapon set for my mesmer. For my elementalist since they dont weapon switch, they have a great skill to close called ride the lightning.

    You didn't even take the time to watch the video.

     

    I haven't played a mesmer but I thought you did exceptionally well there. I would have had my ass handed to me with my ranger :)

  • BadSpockBadSpock Member UncommonPosts: 7,979

    Originally posted by GrayGhost79

    Dodge actually isn't to bad, not great but not awful. It's simply another ability at your disposal so you can't look at it as a standalone mechanic to get you out of trouble.

    That is a very good point.

    Dodging isn't as much of a system or mechanic as it is simply another ability at your disposal to be woven into your combat strategy and play style / skill.

    I wonder if this is why Anet built so many traits that can add additional functionality to your dodge?

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