GW2 will mean the end of the subscription based MMO

Shana77

Having just played beta weekend and seeing how this game lives up to its hype and delivers far more in terms of challenging and innovative PVE, balanced and skillbased PVP and a WvW system that is essentially DAOC reborn at last, I now have no idea how subcription based MMO can justify asking a monthly fee in the face of the GW2 onslaught.  

Q: But GW1 was buy to play too and that didn't kill the subcription based mmo?

Yeah but GW1 wasn't really an MMO and wasn't a persistent world, it was small group play and not nearly as fun or immersive as GW2. It was in a category of its own.

Q: Theres been tons of free to play games and none of them put a dent in games with subscriptions like WoW. 

Key difference here is that none of them were as good as WoW or Swtor or other major sub-games. Most free to play or buy to play mmo's have either been korean grindy games with pay to win business models, games developed by small amateur companies or subsciption games that where so subpar that the only way to keep some customers was to make it free. And the few games that are halfdecent give you very little options and lock away content and class choice behind a cashshop. 

If however you wanted to enjoy the highest quality gameplay you have been forced to pay for a subscription based mmo has so far been the only way to go. 

Until now. 

Guild Wars 2 offers basically the best current gameplay in both PVE and PVP and won't ask subscription money for it. The AAA games so far have been able to ask subscription because only they delivered the high quality that is expected from a subcription based money. But after the release of GW2 how will other gamecompanies now justify asking you to pay 15 euro per month when Arenanet is offering something bigger and better for just the one time price of the box? GW2 would have been revolutionary and likely become market leader in a few years if it had been a subcriptionbased MMO, but because it isn't, it won't just dominate the market, it will change the pricing method of mmo's.  

My predictions, with the current global economic downturn people aren't all to happy with having to spend money on a monthly fee. GW2 will already be causing a massive migration from the classic MMO's by offering a better game. The bussiness model however means that there will be pressure on the existing subscription based games to go free. Failing to do that will mean their populations will dwindle quickly as players ask themselves why they should pay for something other people get for free and better. 

New games that get released and want to stand a chance against the GW2 onslaught will stand no chance with a subcription based model. 

Adamantine

As this is another of these GW2 threads:

Can ANY of these GW2 fanbois PLEASE explain why exactly anyone would bother playing GW2 ?

I bought GW1 and I didnt even finished the standard missions. It was just so mindnumbing superboring really quick. The classes are primitive and boring with only 8 skills, crafting was primitive beyond belief, and levelup was pointless too. No complexity at all, basically you grabbed your three followers and mindlessly kept killing stuff.

Even Diablo 2 has a better motivation for gaming, because of the item drops. But D2 couldnt keep hold of me, either.

And PvP isnt any better. What you fight about is irrelevant anyway. There is no sense of accomplishment or loss, like with Lineage 2 castle sieges. One just gains a bit ressources, nothing remotely permanent. Meh.

I utterly fail that anything substantial has changed with GW2. Quite on the contrary - they even trivialized the combat system even more, by removing a dedicated healer class. Other than that, they added fluff stuff like ugly races I wont bother playing anyway.

I really think the whole trick of GW1/GW2 is roping people into playing that very quickly are getting bored by it.

jondifool

Originally posted by Adamantine

As this is another of these GW2 threads:

Can ANY of these GW2 fanbois PLEASE explain why exactly anyone would bother playing GW2 ?

I bought GW1 and I didnt even finished the standard missions. It was just so mindnumbing superboring really quick. The classes are primitive and boring with only 8 skills, crafting was primitive beyond belief, and levelup was pointless too. No complexity at all, basically you grabbed your three followers and mindlessly kept killing stuff.

Even Diablo 2 has a better motivation for gaming, because of the item drops. But D2 couldnt keep hold of me, either.

And PvP isnt any better. What you fight about is irrelevant anyway. There is no sense of accomplishment or loss, like with Lineage 2 castle sieges. One just gains a bit ressources, nothing remotely permanent. Meh.

I utterly fail that anything substantial has changed with GW2. Quite on the contrary - they even trivialized the combat system even more, by removing a dedicated healer class. Other than that, they added fluff stuff like ugly races I wont bother playing anyway.

I really think the whole trick of GW1/GW2 is roping people into playing that very quickly are getting bored by it.

 I am not sure it can be explained to anyone , puting himself up in a corner that way! You basicly don't like any of the things, ArenaNet has been celebrated for bringing to the scene with GW1. And can't see the point of doing all that even better with GW2.

Back to OP post wich its a shame if focus is trolled away from it.

It is a legit question, with such a AAA product as GW2 lining up, if we ever again will see a big subscribtion based game, on the scene. Alot depends though if the feel from the cashshop experience is going to be that it would be better without it , and paying subscribtion for that. That remains to be seen. But offcause based on GW1 it didn't looked like. But GW2 feel a little more grindy that way.

 

Evelknievel

OP.. I seriously doubt it, however it would be nice.

To me I have no problem paying monthly for quailty fun (if its worth it, of course)

Kyleran

I'll wait to see how the landscape looks 6 months to a year down the road, I'm betting there will always be room for some titles to follow the monthly sub model, however they may have to offier some new benefits for doing so. (because in the end, paying 15.00 is no big deal for many folks, as long as they see value for it)

I actually think the more likely impact of GW2's success in the B2P space will be to encourage titles that might normally have been released in the F2P model to try and get people to pre-purchase a box copy 1st while not really delivering the quality the ANET is striving for.

 

dave6660

No it won't.

There are plenty of people who would be more than happy (myself included) to pay a mere $15 a month for a quality game.

Shana77

Originally posted by Adamantine

 

Can ANY of these GW2 fanbois PLEASE explain why exactly anyone would bother playing GW2 ?

I bought GW1 and I didnt even finished the standard missions. It was just so mindnumbing superboring really quick. The classes are primitive and boring with only 8 skills, crafting was primitive beyond belief, and levelup was pointless too. No complexity at all, basically you grabbed your three followers and mindlessly kept killing stuff.

Even Diablo 2 has a better motivation for gaming, because of the item drops. But D2 couldnt keep hold of me, either.

And PvP isnt any better. What you fight about is irrelevant anyway. There is no sense of accomplishment or loss, like with Lineage 2 castle sieges. One just gains a bit ressources, nothing remotely permanent. Meh.

I utterly fail that anything substantial has changed with GW2. Quite on the contrary - they even trivialized the combat system even more, by removing a dedicated healer class. Other than that, they added fluff stuff like ugly races I wont bother playing anyway.

I really think the whole trick of GW1/GW2 is roping people into playing that very quickly are getting bored by it.

I didn't like GW1 either. This game is nothing like GW1. The holy trinity with its dedicated healer and tank classes are trivialised combat. GW2 combat system is far more action and skill based. keyboard turners and clickers can easily survive the most difficult content in WoW and similar MMO's, they will stand no chance in GW2. If you think combat is trivialised your going to get a huge wakeup call. Also, lineage 2? Lol!

 

 

Four0Six

IN answer to title: No, no it doesn't.

 

This past BWE, it simply garnered a bunch of "kick-start" cash, form, pre-purchasers. That is great, but.....To keep operating revenue up, they will have to release a much better game. There is too much chatter on the interwebs about flaws to sell "millions" of more boxes

Then, after that, what do you do? Well, you will need expacs and enough "vanity" items in the CS to keep the income flowing. To keep up with sub numbers, of say $15 a month, you need a $50 expac every 4 months and enough CS income to make up the other $10, form every would be subscriber. Which is a TON of content, both armor sets, quest-pacs, hair-dos, weapons, blah blah. This all from a company that has kept GW2 is development for what?...5+years?

 

My point? Well I see a possible buisness model here with GW2, but I don't think it is the "Sub-based-killer" we all hope for. Many companies witll look at it and see it as a gamble, one that only pays off if you get it exactly right, and well there arent many examples in MMO lore of that happening.

Shana77

Originally posted by dave6660

No it won't.

There are plenty of people who would be more than happy (myself included) to pay a mere $15 a month for a quality game.

 

So your the type of person that would pay monthly to sit outside in a tent, even when the Waldorf Astoria is offering a room to use forever for a one time small fee? 

jackwu10

so just curious, after the beta, will this game really reshape the future of mmo like how ppl claimed? 

 

 

Scypheroth

sorry but i totally disagree...shud GW2 is neat and the new in thing...ut over time somthign new will come out and what do u know? it will be sub based...like archeage....its like hunger games its the new in thing right now...juts like how twillight was...same went for SWTOR

Puremallace

If subscription based mmo's die then that marks the last day I play a single one. People like you made these claims in Korea years ago and now they regret it. Ever heard of Free to play trash? That term was coined because of the crap that came out of Korea.

 

Tired of you people without jobs trying to leech off devs like these things are free to make.

Four0Six

Originally posted by Shana77

Originally posted by dave6660

No it won't.

There are plenty of people who would be more than happy (myself included) to pay a mere $15 a month for a quality game.

 

So your the type of person that would pay monthly to sit outside in a tent, even when the Waldorf Astoria is offering a room to use forever for a one time small fee? 

Funny comparasion: GW2 to the Waldorf...yeah maybe but it isnt done, and when they finish that new wing you need to pay again, and the breakfast needs to get paid for, and clean sheets, and ....well you get my point.

GeezerGamer

Is this assumption just a tad premature? There are still too many unknowns about GW2. Things that could have a big impact. 

For example, What does ArenaNet plan to sell in the Cash Shop to make Gems valuable? So far, nothing anyone has seen makes gems overly desireable and yet, this is the intended revenue stream?

shadow9d9

Originally posted by Shana77

Originally posted by dave6660

No it won't.

There are plenty of people who would be more than happy (myself included) to pay a mere $15 a month for a quality game.

 

So your the type of person that would pay monthly to sit outside in a tent, even when the Waldorf Astoria is offering a room to use forever for a one time small fee? 

GW1 was terrible and not even close to a MMO, so your analogy is in reverse.  GW should be the tent.  Then you have the beggars outside the tent(cash shop) harassing you at all times.

zimboy69

what it will do is make sub based mmo's need to work for there sub

 

and not just take your money  for nothing

travamars

I'll pay the $15 a month. I dont like F2P games with a cash shop looming in the background. And before people start crying that theres nothing game changing in the cash shop... it can and will change after the box sales slow down. If you think there will not be things in there that you will need to buy your fooling yourself.

And I sure wont pay a box price for a F2P game.

GW2 will not change subscription based mmo's at all but it will change f2p games. It will make them consider charging you for a box too.

Slampig

Originally posted by jackwu10

so just curious, after the beta, will this game really reshape the future of mmo like how ppl claimed? 

 

 

You read the OPs post didn't you? Don't you see the rays of light emanating from your monitor whenever even a pixel of Guild Wars 2 is on the screen? I heard that during the beta EVENT the game actually parted the Red Sea, allowing thousands of GW2 fanboys to escape to gaming nirvana!

RelGn

I believe that gw2 will end subscription based mmos once and for all.

Thumbs up to arena net for their master work

Nevulus

Originally posted by jackwu10

so just curious, after the beta, will this game really reshape the future of mmo like how ppl claimed? 

 

 

Simple answer: No.

I enjoyed Beta, it seems like a great game, only time will tell if it will hold my attention, but it was not the second coming, it did not cure aids or the common cold, it did not spawn the birth of a theological figurehead.

The original OP posted an opinion piece that is highly subjective, I'm sure MANY people feel differently.

Kyleran

Originally posted by Shana77

Originally posted by dave6660

No it won't.

There are plenty of people who would be more than happy (myself included) to pay a mere $15 a month for a quality game.

 

So your the type of person that would pay monthly to sit outside in a tent, even when the Waldorf Astoria is offering a room to use forever for a one time small fee? 

Yeah, because at the Waldorf they won't let me chop up the furniture and burn them in a campfire.  How the heck am I supposed to make my smores?

Since were using a really bad hotel analogy, perhaps put it a different way, perhaps the hotel with a regular fee allows my dog to stay in it, while the free one is "missing" this feature.

It's sort of like that.

I mean look at GW2, due to it's payment model ANET couldn't even afford healers. 

 

Butregenyo

Why would i even bother paying a sub for a game for more inferior compared to gw2 while i can play gw2 without a sub?

Loke666

Just like LOTRO didn't kill sub based game whn it went F2P (as some people here thought) wont GW2 do it either.

It might hurt the subbased games and even force a few to go F2P but some of them will still be there for years to come.

Loktofeit

Originally posted by Shana77

Having just played beta weekend and seeing how this game lives up to its hype and delivers far more in terms of challenging and innovative PVE, balanced and skillbased PVP and a WvW system that is essentially DAOC reborn at last, I now have no idea how subcription based MMO can justify asking a monthly fee in the face of the GW2 onslaught.  

Q: But GW1 was buy to play too and that didn't kill the subcription based mmo?

Yeah but GW1 wasn't really an MMO and wasn't a persistent world, it was small group play and not nearly as fun or immersive as GW2. It was in a category of its own.

Q: Theres been tons of free to play games and none of them put a dent in games with subscriptions like WoW. 

Key difference here is that none of them were as good as WoW or Swtor or other major sub-games. Most free to play or buy to play mmo's have either been korean grindy games with pay to win business models, games developed by small amateur companies or subsciption games that where so subpar that the only way to keep some customers was to make it free. And the few games that are halfdecent give you very little options and lock away content and class choice behind a cashshop. 

If however you wanted to enjoy the highest quality gameplay you have been forced to pay for a subscription based mmo has so far been the only way to go. 

Until now. 

Guild Wars 2 offers basically the best current gameplay in both PVE and PVP and won't ask subscription money for it. The AAA games so far have been able to ask subscription because only they delivered the high quality that is expected from a subcription based money. But after the release of GW2 how will other gamecompanies now justify asking you to pay 15 euro per month when Arenanet is offering something bigger and better for just the one time price of the box? GW2 would have been revolutionary and likely become market leader in a few years if it had been a subcriptionbased MMO, but because it isn't, it won't just dominate the market, it will change the pricing method of mmo's.  

My predictions, with the current global economic downturn people aren't all to happy with having to spend money on a monthly fee. GW2 will already be causing a massive migration from the classic MMO's by offering a better game. The bussiness model however means that there will be pressure on the existing subscription based games to go free. Failing to do that will mean their populations will dwindle quickly as players ask themselves why they should pay for something other people get for free and better. 

New games that get released and want to stand a chance against the GW2 onslaught will stand no chance with a subcription based model. 

"The bussiness model however means that there will be pressure on the existing subscription based games to go free."

Welcome to 2008.  Glad you caught up.

 

Precusor

GW1 was supposed to end sub based games.

Arawulf

I saw this thread and made this.  Say goodye to sub fees ladies and gentlemen.