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Iam at the point, where I would actually like a Healer profession

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  • AsheramAsheram Member EpicPosts: 5,071

    Originally posted by RebelScum99

    Originally posted by Entropy14

    NO HEALERS !!!!! For once can we have a game thats different !!!!

     

    There 30345983590358034583405034058340583405834905234235345347857345873485 MMOs out there with healers. FFS lets have one break the mold and do something new

     

    The point of this game is to avoid damage, knowing when to dogde, when to roll , when to interupt ect......

     

    you cant just hit 1-2-3 over and over and win in this game , thats the point.

     

    There are games out right now that already have the kind of combat in which it is up to you to mitigate and avoid your own damage, and yet they still have healers as well.  So GW2 isn't doing anything earth-shattering here aside from removing a class archetype that a lot of people enjoy playing. 

    Some seem to enjoy it for what it is, and you have your other games that do it like you enjoy it so I fail to see the problem.

  • maskedweaselmaskedweasel Member LegendaryPosts: 12,180

    Originally posted by WardTheGreat

    Originally posted by ssupple21

     

    This "Healer" you're talking about is ultimately a support character for their team. So many people think that healing should be only watching green bars and never worrying about doing anything but putting up the green numbers. This game is so much more complex than mash 1 and 2 to keep health bars topped off. It requires a synergy between you and your group mate's ability to use your skills correctly, use your profession correctly, and use the game mechanics correctly. There is a reason that you can evade attacks and positioning is important. If you are dying just questing you are not playing correctly. 

    As a side note there are many ways to build a more supportive character to somewhat fill the role of a dedicated healer. As an engineer I have a backpack that allows me to drop Med Kits for people and cleansing vials. I also have a healing turret that provides passive aoe healing. The Necromancer has similar potential with their siphoning health and regeneration boons. The mechanics are in the game to build these types of characters it just takes some creativity. 

    Very true, albeit the healing is more of a small suppliment rather than large bursts, group sustain is more about helping your team by preventing damage, mitigating it, and controling the battlefield. 

    Kind of.  I was just playing an elementalist with a staff, using water attunement,  and i was able to hit some heavy burst heals that regenned pretty quickly,  plus a really decent large scale AOE heal that wasn't too shabby either.

     

    Apart from that I only had 1 other support ability in that attunement and 2 damage abilities.  I was able to keep a small team up against a much larger team for a good amount of time with just those 2 heals.  It was about the last 2 or so hours of my livestream.

     

    You can easily play a dedicated healer if you want to..  I was under the impression there were no healers in this game,  but my elementalist was a pretty good healer... its just tougher to be a good healer as all the abilities are aoe, and most of the time people just run through them without realizing its healing them.

     

    The engineer bacpack isn't nearly as useful.  You drop bags, but if you run forward, more times than not you'll pick them up if you're hurt...  I love playing support characters,  but between the two, as far as healing goes,  elementalist is easy in comparison to the engineers pack.

     

    Good tactics are important,  but unfortunately, in the W v W v W that I've done,  it really still comes down to.. numbers.. just numbers....  even if you watch that last bit,  I kept a lot of people up and we bombarded the other team for a long time, even took a few down, they just overpowered us... and it was like that in most cases.. either us on them, or them on us... and thats the point of these kinds of games, so before people start complaining about zergs,  that is exactly what you want when you ask for this kind of PvP.



  • cloud8521cloud8521 Member Posts: 878
    i would like to point out  others can heal you but they dont because  honestly  its hard to do in battle atm and  you cant see other peoples health  eaisly
  • DerpybirdDerpybird Member Posts: 991

    Originally posted by RebelScum99

    I'd say no for the simple fact that

    No dedicated healer = more deaths

    More deaths = more "Fight to Survive" animations

    More "Fight to Survive" animations = more laughter for me.  Seriously, what is that?  It looks like you are picking up dirt and throwing it in order to survive.  Dumbest thing I've ever seen, but it gives me a great chuckle every time I see it.  

    Don't the Tera threads need you to help argue how rooting does not ruin the "Real. Action. Combat"?

    "Loading screens" are not "instances".
    Your personal efforts to troll any game will not, in fact, impact the success or failure of said game.

  • ZhauricZhauric Member UncommonPosts: 292
    Had to vote no. I like the fact that I have some sort of challenge finally while questing. Let's face it. Most of the time in games today when we quest it's mind numbingly easy and no challenge at all. A lot of the time we'd just go gather several mobs and kill them all like it's nothing. So I'm eating more dirt this time around *shrugs* Doesn't matter. I'm enjoying it and the fact I actually have to react to what is going on. 
  • IzkimarIzkimar Member UncommonPosts: 568

    Originally posted by maskedweasel

    Kind of.  I was just playing an elementalist with a staff, using water attunement,  and i was able to hit some heavy burst heals that regenned pretty quickly,  plus a really decent large scale AOE heal that wasn't too shabby either.

     

    Apart from that I only had 1 other support ability in that attunement and 2 damage abilities.  I was able to keep a small team up against a much larger team for a good amount of time with just those 2 heals.  It was about the last 2 or so hours of my livestream.

     

    You can easily play a dedicated healer if you want to..  I was under the impression there were no healers in this game,  but my elementalist was a pretty good healer... its just tougher to be a good healer as all the abilities are aoe, and most of the time people just run through them without realizing its healing them.

     

    The engineer bacpack isn't nearly as useful.  You drop bags, but if you run forward, more times than not you'll pick them up if you're hurt...  I love playing support characters,  but between the two, as far as healing goes,  elementalist is easy in comparison to the engineers pack.

     

    Good tactics are important,  but unfortunately, in the W v W v W that I've done,  it really still comes down to.. numbers.. just numbers....  even if you watch that last bit,  I kept a lot of people up and we bombarded the other team for a long time, even took a few down, they just overpowered us... and it was like that in most cases.. either us on them, or them on us... and thats the point of these kinds of games, so before people start complaining about zergs,  that is exactly what you want when you ask for this kind of PvP.

    Nah I disagree, the cooldowns on the heals are spaced out so you can continuously burst heal at all times.  Also, it isn't always about numbers, Idk if he has the stream saved, but in the stream I linked, when I was playing earlier we had 6v15+ more than once and won out.  I really see zerging being decently affective early on, but when the game is out for awhile you will see plenty of small groups dismantling unorganized zergs.  Zergs will be for the players who aren't as frequent in PvP/comfortable, new players, and for major important battles, but usually a bulk of the stuff is going to be done with smaller groups that coordinate well.

  • reef22reef22 Member UncommonPosts: 85

    We have to use a different kind of mindset to play this game now.  Every class has healing and rez abilities and this is a group effort kind of game.   Even more group effort than other games.  We can't just rely on one single person to do all the healing.  We have to watch each other's back.  

    I think it creates a stronger bond among people.  

    Besides, do you really want to keep typing  "LOOKING FOR HEALER!!!" in the chat window for an hour just so your group can go do raids or whatever?

  • maskedweaselmaskedweasel Member LegendaryPosts: 12,180

    Originally posted by WardTheGreat

    Originally posted by maskedweasel

    Kind of.  I was just playing an elementalist with a staff, using water attunement,  and i was able to hit some heavy burst heals that regenned pretty quickly,  plus a really decent large scale AOE heal that wasn't too shabby either.

     

    Apart from that I only had 1 other support ability in that attunement and 2 damage abilities.  I was able to keep a small team up against a much larger team for a good amount of time with just those 2 heals.  It was about the last 2 or so hours of my livestream.

     

    You can easily play a dedicated healer if you want to..  I was under the impression there were no healers in this game,  but my elementalist was a pretty good healer... its just tougher to be a good healer as all the abilities are aoe, and most of the time people just run through them without realizing its healing them.

     

    The engineer bacpack isn't nearly as useful.  You drop bags, but if you run forward, more times than not you'll pick them up if you're hurt...  I love playing support characters,  but between the two, as far as healing goes,  elementalist is easy in comparison to the engineers pack.

     

    Good tactics are important,  but unfortunately, in the W v W v W that I've done,  it really still comes down to.. numbers.. just numbers....  even if you watch that last bit,  I kept a lot of people up and we bombarded the other team for a long time, even took a few down, they just overpowered us... and it was like that in most cases.. either us on them, or them on us... and thats the point of these kinds of games, so before people start complaining about zergs,  that is exactly what you want when you ask for this kind of PvP.

    Nah I disagree, the cooldowns on the heals are spaced out so you can continuously burst heal at all times.  Also, it isn't always about numbers, Idk if he has the stream saved, but in the stream I linked, when I was playing earlier we had 6v15+ more than once and won out.  I really see zerging being decently affective early on, but when the game is out for awhile you will see plenty of small groups dismantling unorganized zergs.  Zergs will be for the players who aren't as frequent in PvP/comfortable, new players, and for major important battles, but usually a bulk of the stuff is going to be done with smaller groups that coordinate well.

    I would have to disagree on that....  I forsee bigger guilds getting together and flash attacking keeps in the future.  A small coordinated team of 4 - 6 people is great for late night battles, or taking supply lines,  but the numbers will consistently win given time.

     

    I have my entire.. 6 - 10 hours saved from my livestream.  You'll see a number of times where we (with me as a healer) were able to push back a team with a few more guys.  At one point we took a supply point.. about 6 - 8 of us or so,  and then we were attacked by about 12 - 15  (its around the 2 hour mark of the latest video)  and we did end up taking them,  until they picked up reinforcements and completely outnumbered us.  I think there were still some survivors,  but the point remains, while a coordinated team will be better overall,  numbers have proven, even in this game, to be more powerful.

     

    Not just against other players, but have you tried to bring down a gate yet?  Even with a Ram and no defenders, it takes a very long time even with 20 people....  I think I have that recorded in the latest video too...  I'm probably going to put a highlight reel together at some point.

     

    Needless to say,  the small heal with the quick cooldown can heal most players to full,  and the other AOE heal can heal most to half,   I think we'll see many more elementalist healers later on.



  • fivorothfivoroth Member UncommonPosts: 3,916

    Dying a lot is good right? I thought a lot of people on these forums were complaining that nowadays you never die in MMOs.

    I died a lot in GW1 too especially in the beginning because the game was actually that - a game. And a game requires skill and attention to play unlike MMOs where you just faceroll the keyboard and you win.

    Mission in life: Vanquish all MMORPG.com trolls - especially TESO, WOW and GW2 trolls.

  • VirgoThreeVirgoThree Member UncommonPosts: 1,198

    Was playing for afew hours on a Norn Guardian and I haven't run into this problem yet. Was doing Pve and WvW and I maybe died a total of 3-4 times during the WvW foreray? What I found most important was to know when to back off in both PvE and PvP.

    Standard procedure for me so far to retreat is to dodge roll back acouple times, pop my shield ability that blocks all ranged and then dodge roll again as some energy recharges at this point. Then pop my self heal which also blocks attacks, and roll some more :) At that point I'm able to avoid most deaths, although my time in game has been limited so I doubt this will always work lol. 

  • VepgenusVepgenus Member Posts: 398

    Originally posted by maskedweasel

    Originally posted by WardTheGreat

    Originally posted by maskedweasel

    Kind of.  I was just playing an elementalist with a staff, using water attunement,  and i was able to hit some heavy burst heals that regenned pretty quickly,  plus a really decent large scale AOE heal that wasn't too shabby either.

     

    Apart from that I only had 1 other support ability in that attunement and 2 damage abilities.  I was able to keep a small team up against a much larger team for a good amount of time with just those 2 heals.  It was about the last 2 or so hours of my livestream.

     

    You can easily play a dedicated healer if you want to..  I was under the impression there were no healers in this game,  but my elementalist was a pretty good healer... its just tougher to be a good healer as all the abilities are aoe, and most of the time people just run through them without realizing its healing them.

     

    The engineer bacpack isn't nearly as useful.  You drop bags, but if you run forward, more times than not you'll pick them up if you're hurt...  I love playing support characters,  but between the two, as far as healing goes,  elementalist is easy in comparison to the engineers pack.

     

    Good tactics are important,  but unfortunately, in the W v W v W that I've done,  it really still comes down to.. numbers.. just numbers....  even if you watch that last bit,  I kept a lot of people up and we bombarded the other team for a long time, even took a few down, they just overpowered us... and it was like that in most cases.. either us on them, or them on us... and thats the point of these kinds of games, so before people start complaining about zergs,  that is exactly what you want when you ask for this kind of PvP.

    Nah I disagree, the cooldowns on the heals are spaced out so you can continuously burst heal at all times.  Also, it isn't always about numbers, Idk if he has the stream saved, but in the stream I linked, when I was playing earlier we had 6v15+ more than once and won out.  I really see zerging being decently affective early on, but when the game is out for awhile you will see plenty of small groups dismantling unorganized zergs.  Zergs will be for the players who aren't as frequent in PvP/comfortable, new players, and for major important battles, but usually a bulk of the stuff is going to be done with smaller groups that coordinate well.

    I would have to disagree on that....  I forsee bigger guilds getting together and flash attacking keeps in the future.  A small coordinated team of 4 - 6 people is great for late night battles, or taking supply lines,  but the numbers will consistently win given time.

     

    I have my entire.. 6 - 10 hours saved from my livestream.  You'll see a number of times where we (with me as a healer) were able to push back a team with a few more guys.  At one point we took a supply point.. about 6 - 8 of us or so,  and then we were attacked by about 12 - 15  (its around the 2 hour mark of the latest video)  and we did end up taking them,  until they picked up reinforcements and completely outnumbered us.  I think there were still some survivors,  but the point remains, while a coordinated team will be better overall,  numbers have proven, even in this game, to be more powerful.

     

    Not just against other players, but have you tried to bring down a gate yet?  Even with a Ram and no defenders, it takes a very long time even with 20 people....  I think I have that recorded in the latest video too...  I'm probably going to put a highlight reel together at some point.

     

    Needless to say,  the small heal with the quick cooldown can heal most players to full,  and the other AOE heal can heal most to half,   I think we'll see many more elementalist healers later on.

    I'm confused I thought there was no specific healer in GW2, what u just said right now makes no sense. So the Elementalist is a dedicated healer? How is that possible?

  • TerrorizorTerrorizor Member Posts: 326
    nope. there are other games, don't feel like you have to play this one.
  • RivalenRivalen Member Posts: 503

    All i can say is that you need to play better.

    I'm sorry it's true, people are way too attached to the trinity mentality, hence, they suck at this game.

    Healers would make this game a pvp clone of sooo many others, screw that!

  • IzkimarIzkimar Member UncommonPosts: 568

    Originally posted by Vepgenus

    I'm confused I thought there was no specific healer in GW2, what u just said right now makes no sense. So the Elementalist is a dedicated healer? How is that possible?

    It's okay, he's a little wrong on it.  It is impossible for an Elementalist to be a dedicated healer no matter what.  If you hop into the mists and look at their heals on all weapons, and then look at the cooldowns on their heals, it is impossible for them to outheal any damage in this game.  It can be supplimental, and can be worked into a support build that does a decent amount of healing, but it can't be the only thing it does.  Masked, I think your full heals are a little skewed by the fact that people in WvW are running around with little stats, so when the heal goes off it can full heal them etc... 

    However, there are a lot of support builds I can see so far that add a good amount of healing, but nothing that can be dedicated.  They still need to be a decent threat in the battle, or offer some other forms of support, via. control, damage prevention etc.. 

  • headphonesheadphones Member Posts: 611

    Originally posted by Zookz1

    Without healers, PVP instantly turns into a DPS button mashing tunnel visioned clusterfuck, so yes, I'd like to see a healer class.

    as opposed to the "oh. the other team has a healer and we don't. let's stop playing now" mentality.

  • MumboJumboMumboJumbo Member UncommonPosts: 3,219

    Originally posted by fivoroth

    Dying a lot is good right? I thought a lot of people on these forums were complaining that nowadays you never die in MMOs.

    I died a lot in GW1 too especially in the beginning because the game was actually that - a game. And a game requires skill and attention to play unlike MMOs where you just faceroll the keyboard and you win.

    Good comment. That quote in Game of Thrones: "You win or you die".

  • gaeanprayergaeanprayer Member UncommonPosts: 2,341

    Originally posted by MumboJumbo

    Originally posted by fivoroth

    Dying a lot is good right? I thought a lot of people on these forums were complaining that nowadays you never die in MMOs.

    I died a lot in GW1 too especially in the beginning because the game was actually that - a game. And a game requires skill and attention to play unlike MMOs where you just faceroll the keyboard and you win.

    Good comment. That quote in Game of Thrones: "You win or you die".

    And that's just it. Most people aren't used to being challenged. Doing just fine on my mesmer without a healer, with my boons and reflections and my friend's necro skills, we're dominating. 

    As for dying, this game's difficulty is BS compared to GW1. No joke, I expected to be face-rolled left and right, and I've yet to repair a single time. In GW1, I was dying and pulling my hair out practically right out the gate, especially if you start in Prophecies instead of Factions/NF where you're level capped in a matter of hours. Some people will like the challenge, some won't, all there is to it really. But if they're struggling already, man the forums are going to be singin' when it's time to run those dungeons.

    "Forums aren't for intelligent discussion; they're for blow-hards with unwavering opinions."

  • JoeyMMOJoeyMMO Member UncommonPosts: 1,326

    You like the lf tank, lf healer stuff? You like being locked into a single role? I for one don't. I'm totally fed up with that system. When either the tanks or healers outlevelled you, then game over. This is such a great design that we absolutely MUST have this, right? I can only assume that you're used to playing a healer in other games and miss the comfort of being needed, even if you're pretty bad at playing your class.

    You may think that's all very cool, but if you stop and think about the other side of the fence, then you'll have to agree that the whole concept is fundamentally flawed by either not having enough of a certain class or forcing people to play a class they'd rather not play. Either way it fails at some level.

    imageimage
  • GrayGhost79GrayGhost79 Member UncommonPosts: 4,775

    Originally posted by MMOExposed

    Wow, so much die and revive. Some attacks simply can't be avoided without being shut down.

    a healing class would be nice. The AoE here is crazy. 

    I had asked this question in the game, and got lots of agreement .

    what about you all?



    Whats odd is I saw this question asked in game, don't know if it was you asking or not but very few thought healers would be a good idea.

  • aesperusaesperus Member UncommonPosts: 5,135

    Healers aren't as necessary as you'd think. The game is meant to be challenging, though I think for some players the ramp up in difficulty came at them a bit steep (a lot of DE's start off retardedly easy, and then you all of a sudden get a boss that's hard as hell if you don't know what you are doing). Definitely something they will constantly have to adjust to find that 'sweet spot'.

    All attacks can actually be avoided. Most of the major ones also have tells (but you have to look for them). The particle effects do make that harder to do (they said they were toning it down, I have to assume they haven't finished doing that yet). One problem is, though, that lag does hinder your ability to dodge. For example, in Tera if you dodge you get ~1.5 sec or so of immunity. In GW2 it doesn't even seem like a full second, more like .5seconds. You basically have to time it just right, or you'll still get hit.

    - Oh, and if you want to play a healing class. Play the engineer. You'll have more support than you know what to do with. Between med kit (throwing bandages all over the place), a healing turret, elixirs, and the supply drop (which gives you 3 turrets, including a healing turret), it's really easy to spam heals all over the place. They may not be huge, but they are abundant, and better than what the ele can do.

  • xKingdomxxKingdomx Member UncommonPosts: 1,541

    Chaos is my kind of fun

    I admit I occasionally thought "damn a healer class would be great now"

     

    but most often if you reflect on the situation, I either didn't: 


    • use my healing skill effectively, only when I'm marginally dying

    • didn't move out of the way

    • worse comes to worst, someone just revives me anyway

     


    Not every single rpg needs a healer class, its what made GW2 unqiue from the clutter of trinity games, and it suits their design ideal.

    How much WoW could a WoWhater hate, if a WoWhater could hate WoW?
    As much WoW as a WoWhater would, if a WoWhater could hate WoW.

  • Methos12Methos12 Member UncommonPosts: 1,244
    This is just a matter of people not knowing how to play the game yet. We saw the same thing in convention and press videos. People will learn.
    Civilized men are more discourteous than savages because they know they can be impolite without having their skulls split, as a general thing.
  • Chrome1980Chrome1980 Member Posts: 511

    The problem is not lack of healer but too much aoe and high dps with very low heals given to classes. If they reduce aoe a bit and increase individual heals for better survival... maybe gameplay will be less chaotic and players won't be hitting rez button that much.

    But no to healers.

  • RivalenRivalen Member Posts: 503

    Originally posted by Chrome1980

    The problem is not lack of healer but too much aoe and high dps with very low heals given to classes. If they reduce aoe a bit and increase individual heals for better survival... maybe gameplay will be less chaotic and players won't be hitting rez button that much.

    But no to healers.

    It's lack of knowledge and people are too used to the trinity.

    I went at least 4 pvp matches without dying once, even when outnumbered, the classes have escape mechanics, people just don't use them.

    PS- Rocket boots and Jump Shot are so awesome <3.

  • PurutzilPurutzil Member UncommonPosts: 3,048
    I really feel there should be a 'healer' class, but more to the extent on focus on support. A 'healer' doesn't nessiarily have to be able to suddenly spike everyones helath up to max, but maybe providing some 'nourishment' while providing mostly supportive measures to help allies enough. A support type like that would I feel vastly aid people who like taking a 'healing'  role in getting into the game while also not 'forcing' a healer to being part of gameplay. Someone who can provide supportive means to aid allies which makes up for their lack of damage potential, though at the same time they should be able to provide enough 'umph' to themselves that they can attribute. 
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