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User Generated Content in MMOs: Why not?

//\//\oo//\//\oo MalboroughPosts: 2,767Member

User generated content has influenced online gaming to the extreme. LoL, anyone? MOBA games, tower defense games, player creations permeate the gaming scene now more than ever.

 

Why can't the community generate its own content while having the devs implement their custom made maps/dungeons?

Imagine a game with limitless content due to the fact that it can be cheaply implemented by the devs and created by its own playerbase. There would never be a shortage of things to do, or places to explore.

 

In case it's not clear what I mean:

Users make maps with tool provided by devs

Devs implement maps, or sort through set and slightly modify for balance

 

Yay/nay?

 

This is a sequence of characters intended to produce some profound mental effect, but it has failed.

«13

Comments

  • FrostWyrmFrostWyrm Tempe, AZPosts: 1,036Member

    City of Heroes actually began doing this a few years ago with their "architecht" system.

    The only problem with the idea is that for every truly good piece of content, and every truly inspired player there is out there, there are 100 pieces of complete trash, and 100 immature "kids" (both adult and young) that will build structures to resemble penises.

  • //\//\oo//\//\oo MalboroughPosts: 2,767Member

    Originally posted by FrostWyrm

    City of Heroes actually began doing this a few years ago with their "architecht" system.

    The only problem with the idea is that for every truly good piece of content, and every truly inspired player there is out there, there are 100 pieces of complete trash, and 100 immature "kids" (both adult and young) that will build structures to resemble penises.

     

    ... I don't understand. I think I made it pretty clear that subscription fees would be going to people who would sift through the submitted creations that could be approached based on a popular basis i.e. through user votes.

    So that should never be an issue. 100 pieces of trash might be true, but look at how many great custom maps have been made in other games by individuals.

    You seem to have forgotten just how many great adventure maps, or other genres, were developed in WC3.

    If there is one good map for every 10000, it's more than sufficient to meet content needs.

     

    This is a sequence of characters intended to produce some profound mental effect, but it has failed.

  • JakdstripperJakdstripper logan lake, BCPosts: 2,126Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by FrostWyrm

     

    The only problem with the idea is that for every truly good piece of content, and every truly inspired player there is out there, there are 100 pieces of complete trash, and 100 immature "kids" (both adult and young) that will build structures to resemble penises.

    pretty much.

     

    the ammount of trash that you'd have to sift through in order to get 1 good player created map/dungeon would be almost not worth it.

  • BadSpockBadSpock Somewhere, MIPosts: 7,974Member

    We'll see how well this works with the new Neverwinter MMO coming out by Cryptic/Perfect World.

    Almost always going to be a case of "finding the diamond in the rough" as others have mentioned.

  • DerpybirdDerpybird Boston, MAPosts: 991Member

    If I remember correctly, STO had user generated content rated by the community. I thought this sytem worked fairly well, some of the top rated stuff was pretty good.

    There has to be some form of internal or external quality control for sure.

    "Loading screens" are not "instances".
    Your personal efforts to troll any game will not, in fact, impact the success or failure of said game.

  • Johnie-MarzJohnie-Marz La Puente, CAPosts: 865Member

    I have given this some thought. I believe if you create a dungeon you should get a certain percentage of the gold that the parties that go throught that dungeon receive. (Rewards handed out in a dungeon, would be based on strength of monsters, you couldn't make a dungeon with one goblin guarding a chest of a gazillion gold for instance)

    After a party goes through the dungeon they have an opportunity to rate it. Dungeons that are not rated high enough after a specific piriod of time or if no players finishes the dungeon over a specific period of time, the dungeon is "Retired"

    This way, the high rated dungeons that people actually enjoy will be kept, the bad ones will be "Retired" and it will give dungeon creators incentive to create fun well designed dungeons. (since they will be making a profit when players complete their dungeon)

  • VengeSunsoarVengeSunsoar Posts: 5,316Member Uncommon

    Several games are allready user content, however I don't think the devs are going through and modifying any of them (truthfully can't really see that happening as it adds yet more work to the devs with no cost incentive and does not reduce their workload.

    CoH, EQ2, Ryzom just off the top of my head all have methods for the players to make a dungeon/map/content of some kind. 

     

    Quit worrying about other players in a game and just play.

  • xDayxxDayx St Charles, MOPosts: 712Member

    One step ahead of you chief. Nightly I play a game wih no quests and I utilize practical RP.  

  • XiaokiXiaoki White Pigeon, MIPosts: 2,605Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by FrostWyrm
    City of Heroes actually began doing this a few years ago with their "architecht" system.
    The only problem with the idea is that for every truly good piece of content, and every truly inspired player there is out there, there are 100 pieces of complete trash, and 100 immature "kids" (both adult and young) that will build structures to resemble penises.

    How about adding that Architect Missions were highly abused and people used them to get to max level in a matter of hours.


    Because of this few people level normally in CoH and the game now revolves around abusing the player made content.

  • VengeSunsoarVengeSunsoar Posts: 5,316Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Xiaoki

     




    Originally posted by FrostWyrm

    City of Heroes actually began doing this a few years ago with their "architecht" system.

    The only problem with the idea is that for every truly good piece of content, and every truly inspired player there is out there, there are 100 pieces of complete trash, and 100 immature "kids" (both adult and young) that will build structures to resemble penises.






    How about adding that Architect Missions were highly abused and people used them to get to max level in a matter of hours.

     



    Because of this few people level normally in CoH and the game now revolves around abusing the player made content.

    When it first came out it was pretty bad, or awesome depending on your pov.  However that changed long ago.  Architect was heavily nerfed and the other content xp was increased.  Just prior to the f2p transition (haven't played since about a month before f2p) I would say it was pretty even, perhaps a tad more leveling in regular content vs architect.

    Quit worrying about other players in a game and just play.

  • FrostWyrmFrostWyrm Tempe, AZPosts: 1,036Member

    Originally posted by Xiaoki

     




    Originally posted by FrostWyrm

    City of Heroes actually began doing this a few years ago with their "architecht" system.

    The only problem with the idea is that for every truly good piece of content, and every truly inspired player there is out there, there are 100 pieces of complete trash, and 100 immature "kids" (both adult and young) that will build structures to resemble penises.






    How about adding that Architect Missions were highly abused and people used them to get to max level in a matter of hours.



    Because of this few people level normally in CoH and the game now revolves around abusing the player made content.

    Didnt know about that, but also another good point.

  • EronakisEronakis Louisville, KYPosts: 2,188Member Common

    Originally posted by //\//\oo

    User generated content has influenced online gaming to the extreme. LoL, anyone? MOBA games, tower defense games, player creations permeate the gaming scene now more than ever.

     

    Why can't the community generate its own content while having the devs implement their custom made maps/dungeons?

    Imagine a game with limitless content due to the fact that it can be cheaply implemented by the devs and created by its own playerbase. There would never be a shortage of things to do, or places to explore.

     

    In case it's not clear what I mean:

    Users make maps with tool provided by devs

    Devs implement maps, or sort through set and slightly modify for balance

     

    Yay/nay?

     

    So player made content would be the layout of a dungeon using the tools that the dev's provide? Do players get to decide what kind of mobs could be in the dungeon? What about placement of mobs? What about the pathing of mobs? Do players also design quests or attached pre-made quests with the dungeon? Will there be dynamic content with this player made content? Does the player have an option to decide what loot is dropped off what mobs and how many Boss mobs there will be?

     

    I voted No, because as you can see that there is a lot to be taking into account. A lot of players need to understand game design mehanics and elements to make a fun dungeon. Anyone can make a dungeon, but will it be fun? What type of gameplay will the dungeon provide by each player? Will the player know how to balance a dungeon or if there are pathing issues, can they fix the glitch?

     

    Another issue is that who would stop a player by making the easiest dungeon or map in the world and make it drop the best loot? There are alot of major issues that are not thought of when this topic comes up. I am sure it could work within reason and various conditions the players must meet first. I don't see this as a viable option for content. Would get very sloppy.

     

     

  • LucioonLucioon Palm Harbor, FLPosts: 814Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by //\//\oo

    User generated content has influenced online gaming to the extreme. LoL, anyone? MOBA games, tower defense games, player creations permeate the gaming scene now more than ever.

     

    Why can't the community generate its own content while having the devs implement their custom made maps/dungeons?

    Imagine a game with limitless content due to the fact that it can be cheaply implemented by the devs and created by its own playerbase. There would never be a shortage of things to do, or places to explore.

     

    In case it's not clear what I mean:

    Users make maps with tool provided by devs

    Devs implement maps, or sort through set and slightly modify for balance

     

    Yay/nay?

     

    its a great idea, but people are lazy, therefore it will not last.

    Life is a Maze, so make sure you bring your GPS incase you get lost in it.

  • SythionSythion Salem, ORPosts: 422Member

    Originally posted by Eronakis

    Originally posted by //\//\oo

    User generated content has influenced online gaming to the extreme. LoL, anyone? MOBA games, tower defense games, player creations permeate the gaming scene now more than ever.

     

    Why can't the community generate its own content while having the devs implement their custom made maps/dungeons?

    Imagine a game with limitless content due to the fact that it can be cheaply implemented by the devs and created by its own playerbase. There would never be a shortage of things to do, or places to explore.

     

    In case it's not clear what I mean:

    Users make maps with tool provided by devs

    Devs implement maps, or sort through set and slightly modify for balance

     

    Yay/nay?

     

    So player made content would be the layout of a dungeon using the tools that the dev's provide? Do players get to decide what kind of mobs could be in the dungeon? What about placement of mobs? What about the pathing of mobs? Do players also design quests or attached pre-made quests with the dungeon? Will there be dynamic content with this player made content? Does the player have an option to decide what loot is dropped off what mobs and how many Boss mobs there will be?

     

    I voted No, because as you can see that there is a lot to be taking into account. A lot of players need to understand game design mehanics and elements to make a fun dungeon. Anyone can make a dungeon, but will it be fun? What type of gameplay will the dungeon provide by each player? Will the player know how to balance a dungeon or if there are pathing issues, can they fix the glitch?

     

    Another issue is that who would stop a player by making the easiest dungeon or map in the world and make it drop the best loot? There are alot of major issues that are not thought of when this topic comes up. I am sure it could work within reason and various conditions the players must meet first. I don't see this as a viable option for content. Would get very sloppy.

     

    These concerns are largely address if we look at the problem in a different way.

    Instead of turning players into game designers, make a game that creates playable levels.

    A tied-in game, like a dungeon keeper mmorts, would be a perfect way to generate content as part of the game. It would have its own rules to keep things (relatively) balanced, and could even have an Elo ranking system to ensure that players find dungeons that are a proper challenge for them.

    For bonus points, players of the mmorts may optionally to do evil deeds to gain resources (such as raid towns, kidnap princesses, etc.) These evil deeds become the quests that players in the mmo partake in.

    image
  • rungardrungard st. john''s, NFPosts: 1,035Member

    not everyhting has to be a dungeon. You could let players create their own towers and castles for sure. They naturally look a little like penises..so it would work well.

    i see a day when youll be required to have your own house/tower/castle and it will have a few of levels of storage in it. unlimited storage, but available to be ransacked, smaller fixed storage, that cannot be ransacked and a "power" storage which consists of 1-3 items which a player puts in place to activate the defences. Your defences would mirror the power  and abilities of the items you put up, and of course these items could be stolen if your defences fail.

    "dear sir,

    i dropped by today and you were not home. Your warrior sentries fought valiantly and your traps were deserving of an award, but in the end your defences failed and i now posess your magical sword +3.

    If you would like it back...please come try your luck at my tower.

    Best Regards,

    Rungard"

  • //\//\oo//\//\oo MalboroughPosts: 2,767Member

    I'm surprised that everybody only thinks dungeons; what about LANDSCAPE? What about expanding on the games universe itself?

    People nowadays are so narrow-minded and arrogantly convinced of human limitations that they seem to have forgotten what kind of ingenuity and sheer genius it took for us to be typing on these ubiquitous electronic constructs we take for granted today.

     

     

    This is a sequence of characters intended to produce some profound mental effect, but it has failed.

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAPosts: 22,441Member
    Like discussed before, 99.99% of user created content is crap.

    There is enough professional created fun content that i would not bother sifting through all the crap to get to the 0.01%.
  • Johnie-MarzJohnie-Marz La Puente, CAPosts: 865Member

    Originally posted by //\//\oo

    I'm surprised that everybody only thinks dungeons; what about LANDSCAPE? What about expanding on the games universe itself?

    People nowadays are so narrow-minded and arrogantly convinced of human limitations that they seem to have forgotten what kind of ingenuity and sheer genius it took for us to be typing on these ubiquitous electronic constructs we take for granted today.

     

     

    Wurm already let's you change landscapes and several games already let you create your own quests, However I have yet to see a game let a player create a dungeon.

    It would be nice to see a Elder Scrolls type, tool box that allows players to create content. Unfortunately there are so many trolls out their that instead of trolling chat they would troll by just destroying what you created.

  • EronakisEronakis Louisville, KYPosts: 2,188Member Common

    Originally posted by //\//\oo

    I'm surprised that everybody only thinks dungeons; what about LANDSCAPE? What about expanding on the games universe itself?

    People nowadays are so narrow-minded and arrogantly convinced of human limitations that they seem to have forgotten what kind of ingenuity and sheer genius it took for us to be typing on these ubiquitous electronic constructs we take for granted today.

     

    Of course, but the logic I used in my post also applies to lanscape too. It applies to all aspects of game design. If there are player made content then the whole engine and gameworld would have to focus around it. Player made content won't be successful with an "add-on" approach either.

    I am interested to hear what you think would make good player made content? What kind of gameplay elements would you include in whatever you want to make? Why would it be fun? What will be the dev limitations to the content you can create?

  • EronakisEronakis Louisville, KYPosts: 2,188Member Common

    Originally posted by Sythion

    Originally posted by Eronakis


    Originally posted by //\//\oo

    User generated content has influenced online gaming to the extreme. LoL, anyone? MOBA games, tower defense games, player creations permeate the gaming scene now more than ever.

     

    Why can't the community generate its own content while having the devs implement their custom made maps/dungeons?

    Imagine a game with limitless content due to the fact that it can be cheaply implemented by the devs and created by its own playerbase. There would never be a shortage of things to do, or places to explore.

     

    In case it's not clear what I mean:

    Users make maps with tool provided by devs

    Devs implement maps, or sort through set and slightly modify for balance

     

    Yay/nay?

     

    So player made content would be the layout of a dungeon using the tools that the dev's provide? Do players get to decide what kind of mobs could be in the dungeon? What about placement of mobs? What about the pathing of mobs? Do players also design quests or attached pre-made quests with the dungeon? Will there be dynamic content with this player made content? Does the player have an option to decide what loot is dropped off what mobs and how many Boss mobs there will be?

     

    I voted No, because as you can see that there is a lot to be taking into account. A lot of players need to understand game design mehanics and elements to make a fun dungeon. Anyone can make a dungeon, but will it be fun? What type of gameplay will the dungeon provide by each player? Will the player know how to balance a dungeon or if there are pathing issues, can they fix the glitch?

     

    Another issue is that who would stop a player by making the easiest dungeon or map in the world and make it drop the best loot? There are alot of major issues that are not thought of when this topic comes up. I am sure it could work within reason and various conditions the players must meet first. I don't see this as a viable option for content. Would get very sloppy.

     

    These concerns are largely address if we look at the problem in a different way.

    Instead of turning players into game designers, make a game that creates playable levels.

    A tied-in game, like a dungeon keeper mmorts, would be a perfect way to generate content as part of the game. It would have its own rules to keep things (relatively) balanced, and could even have an Elo ranking system to ensure that players find dungeons that are a proper challenge for them.

    For bonus points, players of the mmorts may optionally to do evil deeds to gain resources (such as raid towns, kidnap princesses, etc.) These evil deeds become the quests that players in the mmo partake in.

    Hmm interesting..

  • DeaconXDeaconX Toronto, ONPosts: 3,067Member

    No developer could ever create content faster than players can burn through it.

    This is where player generated content comes and and I personally see it as a key ingredient in the future of MMORPG's.

    The best way to do this?

    There needs to be a TEST server.  This is generally where new features coming to the MMO are tested by members of the community who joined this specific server type on purpose - to help the developers/preview what's coming down the pipeline.

    This same server can be used as a place where players can build their adventure given the appropriate tools, then allow the testing community to try them, rate them, give feedback etc.  When it reaches a certain level of approval, it goes to a final stage of testing by the developers who actually work on the game.  They either give it that final approval or send it back.

    If it gets the final approval, the user generated adventure is pushed to the actual game.  If not, the player creating the adventure can work on it until it is.

    What this does is it assures a level of quality while also ensuring a steady stream of new 'cream of the crop' adventures being pumped into the game.

    It would be FAR easier for some of the paid developers working at the company to play through some player adventures than to create from scratch (of course, there would be more developer created content as well bringing in new features etc.)

     

    Just how I would set it up :)

    image

    Why do I write, create, fantasize, dream and daydream about other worlds? Because I hate what humanity does with this one.

    BOYCOTTING EA / ORIGIN going forward.

  • just1opinionjust1opinion Kansas City, MOPosts: 4,844Member

     

    Everquest 2 has this.  There are now loads of player made dungeons....endless content, I guess you could say.  EQ2 has actually always been good about coming up with plenty of different and unusual things to do in their game.  A lot of people that even PLAY it don't realize what all there is to do.

    President of The Marvelously Meowhead Fan Club

  • Four0SixFour0Six Missoula, MTPosts: 1,181Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by FrostWyrm

    City of Heroes actually began doing this a few years ago with their "architecht" system.

    The only problem with the idea is that for every truly good piece of content, and every truly inspired player there is out there, there are 100 pieces of complete trash, and 100 immature "kids" (both adult and young) that will build structures to resemble penises.

    The "real" issue City ran into, if memory serves, was farming. The Architect mishs were PL'ers dream come true.

     

    To the OP: City is but one example of what you are looking for, and frankly it was/is not a huge success. I agree you could, and do end up with a "few" amazing player created maps, and sometimes even better stories. But more often than not you get mass ammounts of trash, so much that you would need AI to sort through it all.

    Player generated content is another niche item, it has a place, but it will never work as the center of a game.

  • LEmmopeasantLEmmopeasant Beverly Hills, CAPosts: 46Member

    Nobody has played Neverwinter Nights...?

  • Johnie-MarzJohnie-Marz La Puente, CAPosts: 865Member

    Star wars Galaxies would have been great for allowing player created Planets (Moons)

    There are supposed to be billions of star systems. You allow the players to be able to create their own planets 16/16 or moons 5/5; and if they are good enough the devs would add them too the game, maybe even hand out prizes for best world design.. now suddenly instead of waiting for the Dev's to deliver content to the players, all the developers have to do is just give players new tools and let them go.

    Oh well, Galaxies is gone, but I think that would be a good solution for games that are not receiving new content from the Dev's.

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