Wait, so gw2 does not have instanced pvp? Well now I am confused.
It is zoned PvP, not instanced.
In instanced PvP a certain number join on each side and then it is locked until the battle is over.
Here PvP is happening in 4 huge zones than anyone can jump into any time they feel for it.
GW2 do have instanced PvP as well though, but that is for guild Vs guild, arenas and tournaments.
Even more confusing. Your definitions seem spot on.
But then gw2 "WvWvW" zone is nothing more than a 2 week instance locked by 3 realms.
For what it is, it seems in theory that it will be fun. I will hold my full opinion until i try it out, but i dont get why these people insist on calling it open world pvp when it is not and spreading misinformation. No wonder so many people have their reservation about the gw2 fanatics and the future of the community.
No, WvW is not instance locked. Anyone at anytime can join or leave, you aren't stuck in there like a scenario. Think of it like this.
Area A has all these cool quests and DE's, Area B has your main city, and Area C is where you go to kill other players.
Then you have your instanced PvP, Think WAR scenarios, or SW:TOR Huttball or those types, that is what most describe "instanced" You are in there untill the 20 minutes are over.
In area A-C, you are free to join/leave freely, when ever you want, with no penalties.
Area A is focused PvE, Area B is where you train/craft/whatever, and Area C is where you go and PvP. It's just a zone like any other part of the game (except those scenarios). You hit a loading screen when you first go in, then from there you only get one if you change areas, or enter a personal quest, or go into a dungeon or whatever. When you leave you load into what ever other area there is. The thing with Area C is, there is a population cap, as to keep things somewhat fair between the 3 servers. trust me, no one likes fights that are 200v75, they just suck. So to argue it is "instanced" is fair. But it is not a set number against another set number. there isn't a little house or structure you fight in, you are fighting for a HUGE area, i will guess 10 minutes of running or more from tip to tip. FILLED with objectives, Mobs, and of course, enemy players.
What games do people consider "open world"? Cause SWTOR and WAR arent, not compared to GW2. DAoC isn't. Only one i can think of is games like EvE, other than that, nothing is "open world".
Please read the tread; stop posting mis-information; and understand words such as: Open, world, and pvp. Is it in the open world (non-population capped area?) , does it have pvp? Thats open world pvp.
Population caps have nothing to do with the world... Lets put it this way... There are population caps on the servers in WoW, SWTOR, Aion, AOC, WAR, DAOC, and GW2. IF the population cap gets exceeded, you have to wait in queue. Therefore every zone in their game is instanced... Basing instanced off of whether or not it is population capped is silly, to say the least. Instanced has a lot more characteristics to it... the worst you can say is that it is zoned... And even then, as Wolvards said, you have to apply the same brush to DAOC, SWTOR, AOC, etc.
Lets put it another way. In DAOC, enough people gathered together turned it into a lag-fest and PVP stopped being fun.
Arenanet tested and found that when fights scaled beyond a certain number of players, PvP turned into a lag-fest for most players, and stopped being fun. Arenanet limited the number of players to prevent it from hitting that point.
Lets look at it a different way. You go to buy tickets at the door for a concert, the bouncer tells you "sorry, we are at capacity". No one else being admitted. Well, just wait for the next instance, right? The fact that it is population capped means that it is not persistent and that you can just wait for your own instance, right? Except that whatever happens happens and that is it. The concert isn't going to start again an hour later in a new instance for you to join, and the WvWvW is exactly the same. Whatever happens is persistent, and when you do get in you have do deal with what the people who were in before left for you, not start from a clean slate.
Lets look at it from another angle.
You have a large number of players in a zone where you can interact with friendly and non-friendly NPCs, do quests, do dynamic events. The zone is persistent, every other player can interact with the same NPCs, DEs, etc. that you are, at the same time. Sounds like every other zone in the game... If that isn't open world then you have to tar all games that match those characteristics with the same brush. So by your reasoning, any game that includes zones or shards is not open world.
tl;dr? I've seen servers in other games where capital cities were unusable because of lag. I've seen players organise and crash a server. The moment PVP becomes more frustrating than fun, that is a problem. Even dying in PvP can be fun, but when it becomes laggy to the point where you can't participate properly or don't have the chance to defend yourself, that is not fun.
I've looked all over and cannot really find an exact answer to this.
I've seen this "WvWvW" stuff, but that still looks instanced to me.
I'm talking about open world pvp. I'm guessing guild wars 2 doesn't have it?
If not, I'll probably pass on this one.. tired of instanced PVP games.
Seem to me you are interested in ganking PvE gamers.
Is it because you can not hang with real PVPers?
Anyone who wants open world pvp should simply live IN the pvp region and leave pve region alone. There problem solved, everyone is happy.
it would seem to me that with the W- v -W- v -W map which is persistant there is plenty of open pvp for all hardcore PvPers.
I think GW2 will offer a great mix of PvE and PvP to satisfy most every gamer ...except maybe those very few dipshits that want to gank PvEers.
I like pvp but I do not indulge in it ALL the time. I like doing other stuff too and don't like to be griefed when doing them. When I do PvP I have to have a reason for it. I never run about killing everyone in site simply because I can. I have never been a greifer either and never will be. This is not to say I have never greifed anyone because I have but only if i had a reason. In the past I mainly griefed other greifers. I would gather a pose and hunt down griefers and corps camp them for the simple fact they PISS me off. If the griefer happen to get on my shit list i would spend hours corps camping them or untill they log from the game. It was never exceptionally fun but something I saw as neccesary. I have also participated in the total destruction of greifer guilds to the point that they got disbanded and the members opted to reoll new toons to get out of being hunted. I considered it a job well done.
I've always been a fan of open world PVP without BGs or Arenas which I hate but I also think that people who do not like, do not indulge in PvP should also be able to enjoy the game without having to deal with asshat gankers who can not hang in a real PvP environment. I think Arenanet understnads this and has done a rock solid job of providing what both PvP and PvE gamers are looking for.
As long as the W-v-W-v-W has unrestricted access and people can come and go as they please I think it is going to ROCK. The best part is i can enter and leave when ever i want...I don't have to wait 30 min for a matchup like in so many other games with BGs and arenas.
I am so glad the MODs left this thread open I am learning alot aobut the PvP aspect of the game...I just pre purchased the game I am so convinced Arenanet has struck a balance between pvp and pve.
AMD Phenum II x4 3.6Ghz 975 black edition 8 gig Ram Nvidia GeForce GTX 760
Nope no pvp unless ur in pvp zones, carebear game is carebear
I did my share of ganking. I quit it because killing someone who was worse geared, lower level or at half HP was never as much fun as others claimed.
Yea, that may not be fun, but some of the most fun i have had in any MMO was when i was running around gathering, finding a rare node at the same time as the enemy and an intense battle breaks out. Or how about dungeon crawling with your group and you run into another group, massive battle insues, the winners get to keep on going. THIS is what open world pvp is all about imo. Then you get the carebears crying because they didnt get their shinies, because for some reason in todays world it is taught that everyone get a medal no matter first or last.
again Carebear game is carebear
You're right, that SHOULD be what Open World PvP is about, but it isn't. If you want to cry about something, cry that the gankers, campers and overall asswipes that bully low levels have turned the MMO world into what it is today. They've got so many people annoyed at PvP that the masses have flocked away from it and, of course, developers were all too happy to give them a home and take their money. It's human nature to pick the road of least resistance, and when you have the majority of the PvP crowd making it all but impossible for people to simply play the game, they go elsewhere.
The PvPers that actually want real, gritty PvP are drops in the ocean compared to people that just want to stab people 20 levels lower than them in the face. Whose fault is that?
See you look at it the wrong way, its not the players fault that the game allows them to do such things. In general people are asses to each other, let them hide behind a computer screen and it only gets worse. The problem lies in the design of these games, why have such a large difference between a lvl 20 and lvl 50? Why not just have levels as a prestige type of thing?
Any game that includes player lvl and stats in the machanics of pvp is a fail in my opinion. All combat should be determned based on character skills and how much of your resources you have put into said skills. Two games that come to mind that I have played are Eve and Fallen Earth, mostly fallen earth though.
In Fallen earth lvl determins your skill point limit. Atributes determin your skill max. All combat machanics are determined by how many points you have spent in the various skills. Did you max your weapons vs armor, did you max secondary skills instead or weapons, all these factors will determine how much damage you do,how much you take, how much you mitigate. Lvl per lvl most players are on even ground then the actually player skill comes into affect. HOW GOOD ARE YOU REALLY at moving and dodging bullets and melee weapons. In Fallen Earth like in GW2 your ability to survive is based on the players ability to not get hit, not on your uber lvl, gear or unbalances character class. I am hoping GW2 has a none auto target combat system like Fallen Earth that leave it up to me to actually get into position to hit a target.
this is called a skill based system and if you ask me it is the future of any decent pvp game. If you ask me decent pvp would not allow you to know the lvl of the person you are fighing nore would it allow you to "inspect" his gear. I would even go so far as it should allow players to mask the gear they have with Item shop "prestige" slots.
AMD Phenum II x4 3.6Ghz 975 black edition 8 gig Ram Nvidia GeForce GTX 760
My criticism of that system is that since a very small percentage of people would flag, it would be a nearly useless feature that nobody used. Somewhat like flagging happens on PvE servers in other games.
If 5% flags, they will only ever see the same 5%. This would lead to a useless sytem where no one ever saw someone else to PvP with.
If you want guild on guild action, a better way would be to challenge them in structured PvP.
Which just goes to show that open world PvP in a gankfest free for all is as niche as a game can get. Hence leave it to the small time indie developers to do that whole FFA bullshit and leave real world consentual PvP to the big boy AAA developers.
Playing: GW2 Waiting on: TESO Next Flop: Planetside 2 Best MMO of all time: Asheron's Call - The first company to recreate AC will be the next greatest MMO.
I've looked all over and cannot really find an exact answer to this.
I've seen this "WvWvW" stuff, but that still looks instanced to me.
I'm talking about open world pvp. I'm guessing guild wars 2 doesn't have it?
If not, I'll probably pass on this one.. tired of instanced PVP games.
DAoC didnt have Open World PvP and it is considered to be the greatest PvP game ever made. If you have this overwhelming urge or need to gank lowbies, or kill unsuspected "carebears" then leave now, this isnt the game for you.
Daoc had open world pvp, it had frontiers that were OPEN TO ALL AND HAD PVP. pvp that is in the open world. Froentiers open world == check, pvp == check .
Oh check this out
"
“The other thing that I think is important and this is not a direct answer, but we have World vs. World PvP in Guild Wars 2. I think that will impact PvE as well. Which is your server shard matched up against two other servers in open world PvP. If you like Dark Age of Camelot, this is, in our minds the next evolution of that. It is something that really drove community and you care about what you are doing on a PVE and PvP side. You care about the people on the server.” – Colin Johansen, Lead Content Designer"
Oh snap anet did call it open world .. i knew it. i so knew it.
Ps you all can see who doing the work here and understands reality, not what i thinkism is right.
If DAoC is "open world", so is GW2. It is literally the same thing. You have a PvE side of the game, and you have a PvP side of the game. Both areas anyone can join/leave freely, with nothing taken against them. So to argue that GW2 is instanced in WvW, and DAoC is open world, describe to me where that difference is? And yes, i currently play DAoC.
Read the thread gw2 has population caps on its pvp 300 per side. = not open world, becuase not anyone can enter, becuase past a x number of players its CLOSED.
DAoC has a server cap as well, we just rarely ever touch it. Is DAoC open world?
No , its pretty simple.
Instance = population capped zone/area - many games use these to have multiple zones of the same pve only area to control for population (5-15-20 - 100 - 200 - 300). Its a cap on a area that doesn't allow people in game to enter past a defined population
instance is a special area that generates a new copy of the location for each group
gw2 doesnt have instances each zone is different there is one for each server and a neutral zone
Open world = no population cap. Allows as many people that can fit into a zone/area. Thhe ZONE/AREA/MAP has no population cap its OPEN not CLOSED (or closed after x number of people fill it).
so ilum in swtor is not open world pvp bc it has a population cap?
is a server not open world bc there is a population cap?
Neither of these preclude epicness, massive multiplayer, or anything, besides defined population caps. Its simple, and may be positive or negitive for gw2, no one at this juncture can tell you.
GW2 offers zones that are pvp oriented where three servers can vie for dominance by controlling areas of interest. You cannot pvp in pve zones, so if your interested in jacking lower level players while they are trying to kill a bear then no. GW2 does not offer that style of play. If you want group vs group in a competitive environment where all characters are given max abilities and gear they offer that as well.
I fail to understand why people think it is bad that GW2 offers areas that cater to most players. They only people I see being left out in the cold are griefers. In my opinion, this is a good thing.
Cheers!
MMO Vet since AOL Neverwinter Nights circa 1992. My MMO beat up your MMO. =S
I understand you are a fan of TERA raystantz so I will post your own quotes:
"I think the simple answer is.. its impossible to please everyone."
"Haters are gonna hate, but this game destroys anything else out right now. I've been looking for a game like this for over a year.. its about time."
"This is the best MMO I've played to date..
I've played ALL of them..."
all the above are your quotes from TERA, yet you still come to the GW2 forums to post things like:
"More stuff..
1. Your not paying a monthly fee, but you can bet they will have about 20 boxes of mini patches you'll have to buy at 30 bucks a pop, plus the cash shop, and other things you can buy.. believe me they'll get their money out of you.
2. Judging from these forums and every other GW2 forum I've looked at, the community is going to akin more to that of Halo than an MMORPG. Its going to be downright atrocious.
3. PVP is set up to be an esport already. You thought arena's in WoW were bad... just wait. The mysticism behind "battle" is being replaced with standardized gameplay.. you'll feel like your playing a mini game.. not waging war against your enemies.
4. Cash shop will eventually become an issue, they always do."
For a person who claims to be:
"I'm not a teenager or whatever. I'm a mature adult with a paying job."
I would not agree since you seem to love to post things that are misleading and appear to be trolling attempts on the GW2 subforums.
So the question is...what do you want?
You have supposedly found the "best mmo" you have ever played. So why don't you act like "a mature adult" and play your game rather than trying to spread misinformation and dissent among forum goers in regards to another game.
Cheers!
MMO Vet since AOL Neverwinter Nights circa 1992. My MMO beat up your MMO. =S
GW2 offers zones that are pvp oriented where three servers can vie for dominance by controlling areas of interest. You cannot pvp in pve zones, so if your interested in jacking lower level players while they are trying to kill a bear then no. GW2 does not offer that style of play. If you want group vs group in a competitive environment where all characters are given max abilities and gear they offer that as well.
I fail to understand why people think it is bad that GW2 offers areas that cater to most players. They only people I see being left out in the cold are griefers. In my opinion, this is a good thing.
Cheers!
Anet actually has a discussion about this very subject. Basically what it boils down to is Anet have decided to base their entire game around mechanics that support group play. As they've said countless times 'our game is about playing with other players, not against them'. In order to do this, they had to make some tough decisions to leave out certain features many gamers have grown to expect within an MMO. Traditional raids & open pvp are two of these decisions.
They have a really good reason (I find) for not including these features, but that doesn't mean that there aren't people out there who only care about these features, regardless of what it does to the game as a whole. I think that's where a majority of the complaints over this feature come from.
I understand you are a fan of TERA raystantz so I will post your own quotes:
"I think the simple answer is.. its impossible to please everyone."
"Haters are gonna hate, but this game destroys anything else out right now. I've been looking for a game like this for over a year.. its about time."
"This is the best MMO I've played to date..
I've played ALL of them..."
all the above are your quotes from TERA, yet you still come to the GW2 forums to post things like:
"More stuff..
1. Your not paying a monthly fee, but you can bet they will have about 20 boxes of mini patches you'll have to buy at 30 bucks a pop, plus the cash shop, and other things you can buy.. believe me they'll get their money out of you.
2. Judging from these forums and every other GW2 forum I've looked at, the community is going to akin more to that of Halo than an MMORPG. Its going to be downright atrocious.
3. PVP is set up to be an esport already. You thought arena's in WoW were bad... just wait. The mysticism behind "battle" is being replaced with standardized gameplay.. you'll feel like your playing a mini game.. not waging war against your enemies.
4. Cash shop will eventually become an issue, they always do."
For a person who claims to be:
"I'm not a teenager or whatever. I'm a mature adult with a paying job."
I would not agree since you seem to love to post things that are misleading and appear to be trolling attempts on the GW2 subforums.
So the question is...what do you want?
You have supposedly found the "best mmo" you have ever played. So why don't you act like "a mature adult" and play your game rather than trying to spread misinformation and dissent among forum goers in regards to another game.
Cheers!
I love when people run full investigations on other posters. "Before SWTOR launched, you were quoted as saying 'this game will be a WoW killer', what do you have to say for yourself mister!" hehe
No, the game does not have OWPvP. The closest it has to OWPvP by your definition is W v W, a large realm that pits 3 servers against each other for 2 weeks, ranks them, and then rearranges match ups based on ranks in order to keep things challenging for everyone.
Don't like W v W? Well, GW2 also has structured 5 v 5 PvP. You can also make custom matches from 1 v 1 up to 10 v 10.
Don't like that? Well, GW2 features PvE with a Dynamic Event quest design. In RIFT, rifts would appear and you and those around you would have to repel the enemies that came. GW2 is quite a bit different. There are many different types of DEs with multiple ways of completing them ranging from killing enough enemies, to escorting, to putting out fires, to fighting a huge boss. Each area in GW2 takes about 15 minutes to run across from end to end without fighting, so there will be plenty to do.
Want something more challenging than open world questing? GW2 has 8 dungeons. Each dungeon has a story mode and explorable mode (which in turn has at least 3 variants for each dungeon). Story mode introduces you dungeon while explorable mode puts your 5 man team to the test. With smaller groups, everyone has to contribute and stay active in order for the group to succeed.
Don't like W v W, structured PvP, custom PvP, PvE w/ Dynamic Events, OR Dungeons? Well, there is crafting, playing the market, bar brawling, keg running, exploring, minigames and more.
If absolutely NONE of that appeals to you and you just want OW PvP by your definition, THEN GW2 may not be the game for you.
But it should have SOMETHING for pretty much everybody else
"As you read these words, a release is seven days or less away or has just happened within the last seven days those are now the only two states youll find the world of Tyria."...Guild Wars 2
GW2 offers zones that are pvp oriented where three servers can vie for dominance by controlling areas of interest. You cannot pvp in pve zones, so if your interested in jacking lower level players while they are trying to kill a bear then no. GW2 does not offer that style of play. If you want group vs group in a competitive environment where all characters are given max abilities and gear they offer that as well.
I fail to understand why people think it is bad that GW2 offers areas that cater to most players. They only people I see being left out in the cold are griefers. In my opinion, this is a good thing.
Cheers!
You clearly either haven't experienced "realm pride" or forgot how it was. If high level people from an opposing realm invade your low-level zones, then your low level people or anyone in the attacked low level area, uses the realm chat to call for your high level people to fight off the attackers. Your realm would have yet another reason to play as a team to succeed. Stop thinking about individuals and start looking at the bigger picture.
Edit: Different mechanisms can be put in place to ensure that your higher level players help the lower level ones. One such system is a political election system in form of democracy. That way lower level people can punish "unhelpful" higher level players for not protecting them when they should.
GW2 offers zones that are pvp oriented where three servers can vie for dominance by controlling areas of interest. You cannot pvp in pve zones, so if your interested in jacking lower level players while they are trying to kill a bear then no. GW2 does not offer that style of play. If you want group vs group in a competitive environment where all characters are given max abilities and gear they offer that as well.
I fail to understand why people think it is bad that GW2 offers areas that cater to most players. They only people I see being left out in the cold are griefers. In my opinion, this is a good thing.
Cheers!
You clearly either haven't experienced "realm pride" or forgot how it was. If high level people from an opposing realm invade your low-level zones, then your low level people or anyone in the attacked low level area, uses the realm chat to call for your high level people to fight off the attackers. Your realm would have yet another reason to play as a team to succeed. Stop thinking about individuals and start looking at the bigger picture.
Edit: Different mechanisms can be put in place to ensure that your higher level players help the lower level ones. One such system is a political election system in form of democracy. That way lower level people can punish "unhelpful" higher level players for not protecting them when they should.
The bigger picture is that the lowbies getting insta-gib ganked aren't going to have fun. If the opposing side fields more gankers than you have willing high level players all leveling effectively stops. This discourages people from continuing to play and the result is less people playing the game. How is that good again? Having to call in higher levels doesn't build anymore realm pride than higher level stuff, but does it does build lowbie hate. By then forcing higher levels to help lowbies they will hate the lowbies they are forced to help. Lowbies constantly asking for help will also get old very quickly. It is a system full of negatives and that's bad.
GW2 system actually promotes the same amount of realm pride without the negative downside of lowbie ganking. Higher levels still have an advantage with gear/traits but can put up a good fight and even beat a higher level. The only negative to the system is you can't insta-gib lowbies that are doing PvE, which isn't much of a negative at all.
It is the ultimate cute and cuddly carebear game: a world in which (>=^o^=)> people are friendly and actually want to play with each other <(=^o^=<) and free from any pesky ganking that spoils the experience of others <(=^o^=)> X3 Weee ^.^
GW2 offers zones that are pvp oriented where three servers can vie for dominance by controlling areas of interest. You cannot pvp in pve zones, so if your interested in jacking lower level players while they are trying to kill a bear then no. GW2 does not offer that style of play. If you want group vs group in a competitive environment where all characters are given max abilities and gear they offer that as well.
I fail to understand why people think it is bad that GW2 offers areas that cater to most players. They only people I see being left out in the cold are griefers. In my opinion, this is a good thing.
Cheers!
You clearly either haven't experienced "realm pride" or forgot how it was. If high level people from an opposing realm invade your low-level zones, then your low level people or anyone in the attacked low level area, uses the realm chat to call for your high level people to fight off the attackers. Your realm would have yet another reason to play as a team to succeed. Stop thinking about individuals and start looking at the bigger picture.
Edit: Different mechanisms can be put in place to ensure that your higher level players help the lower level ones. One such system is a political election system in form of democracy. That way lower level people can punish "unhelpful" higher level players for not protecting them when they should.
The bigger picture is that the lowbies getting insta-gib ganked aren't going to have fun. If the opposing side fields more gankers than you have willing high level players all leveling effectively stops. This discourages people from continuing to play and the result is less people playing the game. How is that good again? Having to call in higher levels doesn't build anymore realm pride than higher level stuff, but does it does build lowbie hate. By then forcing higher levels to help lowbies they will hate the lowbies they are forced to help. Lowbies constantly asking for help will also get old very quickly. It is a system full of negatives and that's bad.
GW2 system actually promotes the same amount of realm pride without the negative downside of lowbie ganking. Higher levels still have an advantage with gear/traits but can put up a good fight and even beat a higher level. The only negative to the system is you can't insta-gib lowbies that are doing PvE, which isn't much of a negative at all.
There are three sides, remember? It is unlikely that one side will be able to dominate the other 2 sides together and the defending faction will have access to much shorter travel time (assuming GW2 woudln't allow people to instantly teleport to enemy territory).
The higher levels would only "hate" helping if they hate fighting against other high level players and hate the political influence/other benefits they get by helping their weaker members.
RF Online, which used to be p2p until it went f2p, had a such similar system. Specially the private servers (in which item mall was not pay 2 win) showed how people behave in a system where there is political influence at stake, 3 warring factions and attack of "low level" areas is possible. It was a beauty to behold, I assure you.
GW2 offers zones that are pvp oriented where three servers can vie for dominance by controlling areas of interest. You cannot pvp in pve zones, so if your interested in jacking lower level players while they are trying to kill a bear then no. GW2 does not offer that style of play. If you want group vs group in a competitive environment where all characters are given max abilities and gear they offer that as well.
I fail to understand why people think it is bad that GW2 offers areas that cater to most players. They only people I see being left out in the cold are griefers. In my opinion, this is a good thing.
Cheers!
You clearly either haven't experienced "realm pride" or forgot how it was. If high level people from an opposing realm invade your low-level zones, then your low level people or anyone in the attacked low level area, uses the realm chat to call for your high level people to fight off the attackers. Your realm would have yet another reason to play as a team to succeed. Stop thinking about individuals and start looking at the bigger picture.
Edit: Different mechanisms can be put in place to ensure that your higher level players help the lower level ones. One such system is a political election system in form of democracy. That way lower level people can punish "unhelpful" higher level players for not protecting them when they should.
The bigger picture is that the lowbies getting insta-gib ganked aren't going to have fun. If the opposing side fields more gankers than you have willing high level players all leveling effectively stops. This discourages people from continuing to play and the result is less people playing the game. How is that good again? Having to call in higher levels doesn't build anymore realm pride than higher level stuff, but does it does build lowbie hate. By then forcing higher levels to help lowbies they will hate the lowbies they are forced to help. Lowbies constantly asking for help will also get old very quickly. It is a system full of negatives and that's bad.
GW2 system actually promotes the same amount of realm pride without the negative downside of lowbie ganking. Higher levels still have an advantage with gear/traits but can put up a good fight and even beat a higher level. The only negative to the system is you can't insta-gib lowbies that are doing PvE, which isn't much of a negative at all.
There are three sides, remember? It is unlikely that one side will be able to dominate the other 2 sides together and the defending faction will have access to much shorter travel time (assuming GW2 woudln't allow people to instantly teleport to enemy territory).
The higher levels would only "hate" helping if they hate fighting against other high level players and hate the political influence/other benefits they get by helping their weaker members.
RF Online, which used to be p2p until it went f2p, had a such similar system. Specially the private servers (in which item mall was not pay 2 win) showed how people behave in a system where there is political influence at stake, 3 warring factions and attack of "low level" areas is possible. It was a beauty to behold, I assure you.
You missed his point. He was talking about Other MMO's, and that GW2 would not have this problem.
GW2 offers zones that are pvp oriented where three servers can vie for dominance by controlling areas of interest. You cannot pvp in pve zones, so if your interested in jacking lower level players while they are trying to kill a bear then no. GW2 does not offer that style of play. If you want group vs group in a competitive environment where all characters are given max abilities and gear they offer that as well.
I fail to understand why people think it is bad that GW2 offers areas that cater to most players. They only people I see being left out in the cold are griefers. In my opinion, this is a good thing.
Cheers!
You clearly either haven't experienced "realm pride" or forgot how it was. If high level people from an opposing realm invade your low-level zones, then your low level people or anyone in the attacked low level area, uses the realm chat to call for your high level people to fight off the attackers. Your realm would have yet another reason to play as a team to succeed. Stop thinking about individuals and start looking at the bigger picture.
Edit: Different mechanisms can be put in place to ensure that your higher level players help the lower level ones. One such system is a political election system in form of democracy. That way lower level people can punish "unhelpful" higher level players for not protecting them when they should.
The bigger picture is that the lowbies getting insta-gib ganked aren't going to have fun. If the opposing side fields more gankers than you have willing high level players all leveling effectively stops. This discourages people from continuing to play and the result is less people playing the game. How is that good again? Having to call in higher levels doesn't build anymore realm pride than higher level stuff, but does it does build lowbie hate. By then forcing higher levels to help lowbies they will hate the lowbies they are forced to help. Lowbies constantly asking for help will also get old very quickly. It is a system full of negatives and that's bad.
GW2 system actually promotes the same amount of realm pride without the negative downside of lowbie ganking. Higher levels still have an advantage with gear/traits but can put up a good fight and even beat a higher level. The only negative to the system is you can't insta-gib lowbies that are doing PvE, which isn't much of a negative at all.
There are three sides, remember? It is unlikely that one side will be able to dominate the other 2 sides together and the defending faction will have access to much shorter travel time (assuming GW2 woudln't allow people to instantly teleport to enemy territory).
The higher levels would only "hate" helping if they hate fighting against other high level players and hate the political influence/other benefits they get by helping their weaker members.
RF Online, which used to be p2p until it went f2p, had a such similar system. Specially the private servers (in which item mall was not pay 2 win) showed how people behave in a system where there is political influence at stake, 3 warring factions and attack of "low level" areas is possible. It was a beauty to behold, I assure you.
You missed his point. He was talking about Other MMO's, and that GW2 would not have this problem.
I thought his point was that the only people being left out in the cold were griefers. I tried to show some aspects, which people other than griefers can very much enjoy, that are abandoned by GW2's decision to have a large seperation between PVE and PVP.
GW2 has many strengths, but they also made several sacrifices.
I've looked all over and cannot really find an exact answer to this.
I've seen this "WvWvW" stuff, but that still looks instanced to me.
I'm talking about open world pvp. I'm guessing guild wars 2 doesn't have it?
If not, I'll probably pass on this one.. tired of instanced PVP games.
Imagine 2 separate continents like Kalimdor and Eastern Kingdoms from WoW. Now imagine kalimdor as a standard PvE-only continent, and Eastern Kingdoms is a World vs World vs World PvP (with some pve as well if im not wrong). Then there you have GW2. Couldnt explain it any easier
I've looked all over and cannot really find an exact answer to this.
I've seen this "WvWvW" stuff, but that still looks instanced to me.
I'm talking about open world pvp. I'm guessing guild wars 2 doesn't have it?
If not, I'll probably pass on this one.. tired of instanced PVP games.
Imagine 2 separate continents like Kalimdor and Eastern Kingdoms from WoW. Now imagine kalimdor as a standard PvE-only continent, and Eastern Kingdoms is a World vs World vs World PvP (with some pve as well if im not wrong). Then there you have GW2. Couldnt explain it any easier
I've looked all over and cannot really find an exact answer to this.
I've seen this "WvWvW" stuff, but that still looks instanced to me.
I'm talking about open world pvp. I'm guessing guild wars 2 doesn't have it?
If not, I'll probably pass on this one.. tired of instanced PVP games.
Imagine 2 separate continents like Kalimdor and Eastern Kingdoms from WoW. Now imagine kalimdor as a standard PvE-only continent, and Eastern Kingdoms is a World vs World vs World PvP (with some pve as well if im not wrong). Then there you have GW2. Couldnt explain it any easier
that is a good way to put it
Not really... Since "Kalimdor" and "Eastern Kingdoms" are not even connected you have to replace "Easter Kingdoms" with "Big PvP arena".
Not really... Since "Kalimdor" and "Eastern Kingdoms" are not even connected you have to replace "Easter Kingdoms" with "Big PvP arena".
That's his whole point. It's not an arena so much as a separate continent just for PvP. Both have PvE, but the WvW maps also have PvP.
Another good way to think about it is having 2 games in 1. You have 1 OWPvP MMO, and you have 1 PvE MMO with instanced battlegrounds. You get to share a character for both, but they are separate from each other. If you really want to call it an arena, then fine, but I think too many people would immediately think of WoW's arenas, of which it has almost nothing in common. It's not only much much larger, but the entire setup of it is nowhere near the same.
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Population caps have nothing to do with the world... Lets put it this way... There are population caps on the servers in WoW, SWTOR, Aion, AOC, WAR, DAOC, and GW2. IF the population cap gets exceeded, you have to wait in queue. Therefore every zone in their game is instanced... Basing instanced off of whether or not it is population capped is silly, to say the least. Instanced has a lot more characteristics to it... the worst you can say is that it is zoned... And even then, as Wolvards said, you have to apply the same brush to DAOC, SWTOR, AOC, etc.
Lets put it another way. In DAOC, enough people gathered together turned it into a lag-fest and PVP stopped being fun.
Arenanet tested and found that when fights scaled beyond a certain number of players, PvP turned into a lag-fest for most players, and stopped being fun. Arenanet limited the number of players to prevent it from hitting that point.
Lets look at it a different way. You go to buy tickets at the door for a concert, the bouncer tells you "sorry, we are at capacity". No one else being admitted. Well, just wait for the next instance, right? The fact that it is population capped means that it is not persistent and that you can just wait for your own instance, right? Except that whatever happens happens and that is it. The concert isn't going to start again an hour later in a new instance for you to join, and the WvWvW is exactly the same. Whatever happens is persistent, and when you do get in you have do deal with what the people who were in before left for you, not start from a clean slate.
Lets look at it from another angle.
You have a large number of players in a zone where you can interact with friendly and non-friendly NPCs, do quests, do dynamic events. The zone is persistent, every other player can interact with the same NPCs, DEs, etc. that you are, at the same time. Sounds like every other zone in the game... If that isn't open world then you have to tar all games that match those characteristics with the same brush. So by your reasoning, any game that includes zones or shards is not open world.
tl;dr? I've seen servers in other games where capital cities were unusable because of lag. I've seen players organise and crash a server. The moment PVP becomes more frustrating than fun, that is a problem. Even dying in PvP can be fun, but when it becomes laggy to the point where you can't participate properly or don't have the chance to defend yourself, that is not fun.
No, there is no ganking of people 20 levels lower than you.
a long time ago, in a very old mmo game...
griefer: "i love this game. best idea ever!!!"
ganker: "f-ing a. how many does that make for you?"
griefer: "you serious? i lost count, lmao"
ganker: "this is so wrong, but hella fun"
griefer: "rofl, i think that last guy was from our race"
ganker: "nah, we're the only ones here, i checked"
griefer: "not for long, im messaging the others now"
ganker: "OWNED, he even tried fighting back"
griefer: "no pvp my ass!"
ganker: "yea, why would we? there's only the pve world"
griefer: "whatever this is, we can't call it that. such a weak sounding description"
ganker: "lets just call it open world"
griefer: "sweet. ah dude, i think he just quit. i was 2 seconds from killing him"
ganker: "let's check other areas, fresh meat all thoughout here"
griefer: "open world, i love this. good idea"
then comes arenanet
griefer: "gw2 blows. no open world"
ganker: "carebears will love it, citing fair and balanced"
griefer: "sigh, battles have never been waged on equal footing"
ganker: "yea, no one in their right mind would go into a fight without a clear advantage"
carebear: "guys, it's pvp in a game, which proper pvp by definition should be fair and balanced"
ganker/griefer: "GTFO"
Seem to me you are interested in ganking PvE gamers.
Is it because you can not hang with real PVPers?
Anyone who wants open world pvp should simply live IN the pvp region and leave pve region alone. There problem solved, everyone is happy.
it would seem to me that with the W- v -W- v -W map which is persistant there is plenty of open pvp for all hardcore PvPers.
I think GW2 will offer a great mix of PvE and PvP to satisfy most every gamer ...except maybe those very few dipshits that want to gank PvEers.
I like pvp but I do not indulge in it ALL the time. I like doing other stuff too and don't like to be griefed when doing them. When I do PvP I have to have a reason for it. I never run about killing everyone in site simply because I can. I have never been a greifer either and never will be. This is not to say I have never greifed anyone because I have but only if i had a reason. In the past I mainly griefed other greifers. I would gather a pose and hunt down griefers and corps camp them for the simple fact they PISS me off. If the griefer happen to get on my shit list i would spend hours corps camping them or untill they log from the game. It was never exceptionally fun but something I saw as neccesary. I have also participated in the total destruction of greifer guilds to the point that they got disbanded and the members opted to reoll new toons to get out of being hunted. I considered it a job well done.
I've always been a fan of open world PVP without BGs or Arenas which I hate but I also think that people who do not like, do not indulge in PvP should also be able to enjoy the game without having to deal with asshat gankers who can not hang in a real PvP environment. I think Arenanet understnads this and has done a rock solid job of providing what both PvP and PvE gamers are looking for.
As long as the W-v-W-v-W has unrestricted access and people can come and go as they please I think it is going to ROCK. The best part is i can enter and leave when ever i want...I don't have to wait 30 min for a matchup like in so many other games with BGs and arenas.
I am so glad the MODs left this thread open I am learning alot aobut the PvP aspect of the game...I just pre purchased the game I am so convinced Arenanet has struck a balance between pvp and pve.
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Any game that includes player lvl and stats in the machanics of pvp is a fail in my opinion. All combat should be determned based on character skills and how much of your resources you have put into said skills. Two games that come to mind that I have played are Eve and Fallen Earth, mostly fallen earth though.
In Fallen earth lvl determins your skill point limit. Atributes determin your skill max. All combat machanics are determined by how many points you have spent in the various skills. Did you max your weapons vs armor, did you max secondary skills instead or weapons, all these factors will determine how much damage you do,how much you take, how much you mitigate. Lvl per lvl most players are on even ground then the actually player skill comes into affect. HOW GOOD ARE YOU REALLY at moving and dodging bullets and melee weapons. In Fallen Earth like in GW2 your ability to survive is based on the players ability to not get hit, not on your uber lvl, gear or unbalances character class. I am hoping GW2 has a none auto target combat system like Fallen Earth that leave it up to me to actually get into position to hit a target.
this is called a skill based system and if you ask me it is the future of any decent pvp game. If you ask me decent pvp would not allow you to know the lvl of the person you are fighing nore would it allow you to "inspect" his gear. I would even go so far as it should allow players to mask the gear they have with Item shop "prestige" slots.
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Which just goes to show that open world PvP in a gankfest free for all is as niche as a game can get. Hence leave it to the small time indie developers to do that whole FFA bullshit and leave real world consentual PvP to the big boy AAA developers.
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Best MMO of all time: Asheron's Call - The first company to recreate AC will be the next greatest MMO.
you do realize the whole server ends every 2 weeks and is reset
for maintence at the same time so your point is moot
WvWvW is an area you can always be in just like wintergrasp/tol barad
has PvE and PvP aspects just like wintergrasp/tol barad
well its not an instance its a persistant area like wintergrasp and tolbarad
GW2 offers zones that are pvp oriented where three servers can vie for dominance by controlling areas of interest. You cannot pvp in pve zones, so if your interested in jacking lower level players while they are trying to kill a bear then no. GW2 does not offer that style of play. If you want group vs group in a competitive environment where all characters are given max abilities and gear they offer that as well.
I fail to understand why people think it is bad that GW2 offers areas that cater to most players. They only people I see being left out in the cold are griefers. In my opinion, this is a good thing.
Cheers!
MMO Vet since AOL Neverwinter Nights circa 1992. My MMO beat up your MMO. =S
I understand you are a fan of TERA raystantz so I will post your own quotes:
"I think the simple answer is.. its impossible to please everyone."
"Haters are gonna hate, but this game destroys anything else out right now. I've been looking for a game like this for over a year.. its about time."
"This is the best MMO I've played to date..
I've played ALL of them..."
all the above are your quotes from TERA, yet you still come to the GW2 forums to post things like:
"More stuff..
1. Your not paying a monthly fee, but you can bet they will have about 20 boxes of mini patches you'll have to buy at 30 bucks a pop, plus the cash shop, and other things you can buy.. believe me they'll get their money out of you.
2. Judging from these forums and every other GW2 forum I've looked at, the community is going to akin more to that of Halo than an MMORPG. Its going to be downright atrocious.
3. PVP is set up to be an esport already. You thought arena's in WoW were bad... just wait. The mysticism behind "battle" is being replaced with standardized gameplay.. you'll feel like your playing a mini game.. not waging war against your enemies.
4. Cash shop will eventually become an issue, they always do."
For a person who claims to be:
"I'm not a teenager or whatever. I'm a mature adult with a paying job."
I would not agree since you seem to love to post things that are misleading and appear to be trolling attempts on the GW2 subforums.
So the question is...what do you want?
You have supposedly found the "best mmo" you have ever played. So why don't you act like "a mature adult" and play your game rather than trying to spread misinformation and dissent among forum goers in regards to another game.
Cheers!
MMO Vet since AOL Neverwinter Nights circa 1992. My MMO beat up your MMO. =S
Anet actually has a discussion about this very subject. Basically what it boils down to is Anet have decided to base their entire game around mechanics that support group play. As they've said countless times 'our game is about playing with other players, not against them'. In order to do this, they had to make some tough decisions to leave out certain features many gamers have grown to expect within an MMO. Traditional raids & open pvp are two of these decisions.
They have a really good reason (I find) for not including these features, but that doesn't mean that there aren't people out there who only care about these features, regardless of what it does to the game as a whole. I think that's where a majority of the complaints over this feature come from.
I love when people run full investigations on other posters. "Before SWTOR launched, you were quoted as saying 'this game will be a WoW killer', what do you have to say for yourself mister!" hehe
Here's a thorough answer
No, the game does not have OWPvP. The closest it has to OWPvP by your definition is W v W, a large realm that pits 3 servers against each other for 2 weeks, ranks them, and then rearranges match ups based on ranks in order to keep things challenging for everyone.
Don't like W v W? Well, GW2 also has structured 5 v 5 PvP. You can also make custom matches from 1 v 1 up to 10 v 10.
Don't like that? Well, GW2 features PvE with a Dynamic Event quest design. In RIFT, rifts would appear and you and those around you would have to repel the enemies that came. GW2 is quite a bit different. There are many different types of DEs with multiple ways of completing them ranging from killing enough enemies, to escorting, to putting out fires, to fighting a huge boss. Each area in GW2 takes about 15 minutes to run across from end to end without fighting, so there will be plenty to do.
Want something more challenging than open world questing? GW2 has 8 dungeons. Each dungeon has a story mode and explorable mode (which in turn has at least 3 variants for each dungeon). Story mode introduces you dungeon while explorable mode puts your 5 man team to the test. With smaller groups, everyone has to contribute and stay active in order for the group to succeed.
Don't like W v W, structured PvP, custom PvP, PvE w/ Dynamic Events, OR Dungeons? Well, there is crafting, playing the market, bar brawling, keg running, exploring, minigames and more.
If absolutely NONE of that appeals to you and you just want OW PvP by your definition, THEN GW2 may not be the game for you.
But it should have SOMETHING for pretty much everybody else
"As you read these words, a release is seven days or less away or has just happened within the last seven days those are now the only two states youll find the world of Tyria."...Guild Wars 2
You clearly either haven't experienced "realm pride" or forgot how it was. If high level people from an opposing realm invade your low-level zones, then your low level people or anyone in the attacked low level area, uses the realm chat to call for your high level people to fight off the attackers. Your realm would have yet another reason to play as a team to succeed. Stop thinking about individuals and start looking at the bigger picture.
Edit: Different mechanisms can be put in place to ensure that your higher level players help the lower level ones. One such system is a political election system in form of democracy. That way lower level people can punish "unhelpful" higher level players for not protecting them when they should.
The bigger picture is that the lowbies getting insta-gib ganked aren't going to have fun. If the opposing side fields more gankers than you have willing high level players all leveling effectively stops. This discourages people from continuing to play and the result is less people playing the game. How is that good again? Having to call in higher levels doesn't build anymore realm pride than higher level stuff, but does it does build lowbie hate. By then forcing higher levels to help lowbies they will hate the lowbies they are forced to help. Lowbies constantly asking for help will also get old very quickly. It is a system full of negatives and that's bad.
GW2 system actually promotes the same amount of realm pride without the negative downside of lowbie ganking. Higher levels still have an advantage with gear/traits but can put up a good fight and even beat a higher level. The only negative to the system is you can't insta-gib lowbies that are doing PvE, which isn't much of a negative at all.
like others said, no world pvp indeed.
It is the ultimate cute and cuddly carebear game: a world in which (>=^o^=)> people are friendly and actually want to play with each other
<(=^o^=<) and free from any pesky ganking that spoils the experience of others <(=^o^=)> 
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There are three sides, remember? It is unlikely that one side will be able to dominate the other 2 sides together and the defending faction will have access to much shorter travel time (assuming GW2 woudln't allow people to instantly teleport to enemy territory).
The higher levels would only "hate" helping if they hate fighting against other high level players and hate the political influence/other benefits they get by helping their weaker members.
RF Online, which used to be p2p until it went f2p, had a such similar system. Specially the private servers (in which item mall was not pay 2 win) showed how people behave in a system where there is political influence at stake, 3 warring factions and attack of "low level" areas is possible. It was a beauty to behold, I assure you.
You missed his point. He was talking about Other MMO's, and that GW2 would not have this problem.
I thought his point was that the only people being left out in the cold were griefers. I tried to show some aspects, which people other than griefers can very much enjoy, that are abandoned by GW2's decision to have a large seperation between PVE and PVP.
GW2 has many strengths, but they also made several sacrifices.
Imagine 2 separate continents like Kalimdor and Eastern Kingdoms from WoW. Now imagine kalimdor as a standard PvE-only continent, and Eastern Kingdoms is a World vs World vs World PvP (with some pve as well if im not wrong). Then there you have GW2. Couldnt explain it any easier
that is a good way to put it
Not really... Since "Kalimdor" and "Eastern Kingdoms" are not even connected you have to replace "Easter Kingdoms" with "Big PvP arena".
That's his whole point. It's not an arena so much as a separate continent just for PvP. Both have PvE, but the WvW maps also have PvP.
Another good way to think about it is having 2 games in 1. You have 1 OWPvP MMO, and you have 1 PvE MMO with instanced battlegrounds. You get to share a character for both, but they are separate from each other. If you really want to call it an arena, then fine, but I think too many people would immediately think of WoW's arenas, of which it has almost nothing in common. It's not only much much larger, but the entire setup of it is nowhere near the same.