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Was shutting down SWG LA's biggest failure yet?

ObraikObraik ChristchurchPosts: 7,261Member

This thread has the potential to go very bad, but read it out...

I think it's pretty hard to deny that TOR's subs are dropping.  How fast is debateable but if one is to trust the data seen at torstatus.net, the numbers are only dropping overall.

Looking at the TOR forums, alot of the requests are for features that were in SWG and are likely not going to be seen in SWTOR because it's just not that type of game.  Things like more player interaction, explorable worlds, better space, better world pvp, etc.  Those asking for these are unlikely to stick with the game once the novelty of it wears off. 

However, SWG was that type of game.  I'm well aware that this is just thinking in a "what if" scenario, but if SWG wasn't shut down, those that were not happy with those short commings in TOR could have enjoyed SWG and kept them in LucasArts' revenue.  Instead, they're leaving TOR and LA is losing their money.

While there are those that like to say that if SWG wasn't shutdown it would be a fairly empty game with TOR around as well.  However, I'm not so sure that would have been the case...

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Comments

  • ignore_meignore_me Apple Valley, CAPosts: 1,987Member

    It would have allowed SWG2 to be made. The engine in SWG even in modern incarnation was too old. People would have gone back, but would have immediately started lobbying for the good things that are in SWTOR (ability to jump, fall off things, etc).

    Survivor of the great MMORPG Famine of 2011

  • ElijarhElijarh ViennaPosts: 73Member

    I totally agree,  Even with the arrival of SWTOR, I thought SWG would have died faster if it wasn't for the shutting down of it late last year, Thing is I've played PC mmo's since ohh.. too long to remember and I'm not one of these people that slags off titles or is a fan or hater of particular Mmo's, If it's crap I just dont play it, end of. The ability of a Mmo to keep me paying anf playing is it's sucess factor these days and not many have managed to do so, SWG did. From I think 2004 or 3 right upto and through the horrid NGE I stuck at it because of the infrastucture of the game was one of the most appealing ..Open world  explore etc.

    I Bought CE Swtor back in Dec 2011 and was super exciteded before it went live dispite the rumours and reports of the world setup and play style. Now ..I dont touch it. To me it was Mass effect on steroids, Such a dissapointment. I would have rather like many others expected SWG to get a reboot or even a sucessor.. but alas It did not happen. Now to date I do not pay for any subscriptions as most games have disolved into this dribble pay to play for pieces method. Nearly all lacking the original concept of a Mmo.

    Bottom line personally I think BW messed up big time with SWTOR and what could have been a amazing chance with such a Huge IP. If SWG2 was announced people I'm sure peeps would  flood to it,  More than likley also that it would destory SWTOR in it's infancy.

     

    Eli

     

     

  • hyllstarterhyllstarter ukiah, CAPosts: 203Member Common

    Lol Obraik Obraik.

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  • Cthulhu23Cthulhu23 Tempe, AZPosts: 994Member

    Originally posted by Obraik

    This thread has the potential to go very bad, but read it out...

    I think it's pretty hard to deny that TOR's subs are dropping.  How fast is debateable but if one is to trust the data seen at torstatus.net, the numbers are only dropping overall.

    Looking at the TOR forums, alot of the requests are for features that were in SWG and are likely not going to be seen in SWTOR because it's just not that type of game.  Things like more player interaction, explorable worlds, better space, better world pvp, etc.  Those asking for these are unlikely to stick with the game once the novelty of it wears off. 

    However, SWG was that type of game.  I'm well aware that this is just thinking in a "what if" scenario, but if SWG wasn't shut down, those that were not happy with those short commings in TOR could have enjoyed SWG and kept them in LucasArts' revenue.  Instead, they're leaving TOR and LA is losing their money.

    While there are those that like to say that if SWG wasn't shutdown it would be a fairly empty game with TOR around as well.  However, I'm not so sure that would have been the case...

    /facepalm.  

    Let it go, man.  SWG was dying long before TOR was a twinkle in Bioware's eye.  

  • jmcdermottukjmcdermottuk LiverpoolPosts: 976Member Uncommon

    This is exactly why SWG was closed down. LA wanted 1 SW licensed game to make sure people only played that 1 game. It's a gamble which looks to have been lost. Suit thinking - "Oh, online gamers playing a Star Wars game. Ok, lets close the old one and they'll all play the new one. It's Star Wars..."

     

    It reminds me of when EA closed down E&B, thinking that people would simply move to the soon to be released Sims Online, which failed miserably. Suits don't get gamers, they never have. They see us as numbers only.

  • ObraikObraik ChristchurchPosts: 7,261Member

    Originally posted by Cthulhu23

    Originally posted by Obraik

    This thread has the potential to go very bad, but read it out...

    I think it's pretty hard to deny that TOR's subs are dropping.  How fast is debateable but if one is to trust the data seen at torstatus.net, the numbers are only dropping overall.

    Looking at the TOR forums, alot of the requests are for features that were in SWG and are likely not going to be seen in SWTOR because it's just not that type of game.  Things like more player interaction, explorable worlds, better space, better world pvp, etc.  Those asking for these are unlikely to stick with the game once the novelty of it wears off. 

    However, SWG was that type of game.  I'm well aware that this is just thinking in a "what if" scenario, but if SWG wasn't shut down, those that were not happy with those short commings in TOR could have enjoyed SWG and kept them in LucasArts' revenue.  Instead, they're leaving TOR and LA is losing their money.

    While there are those that like to say that if SWG wasn't shutdown it would be a fairly empty game with TOR around as well.  However, I'm not so sure that would have been the case...

    /facepalm.  

    Let it go, man.  SWG was dying long before TOR was a twinkle in Bioware's eye.  

    I've let it go, I'm kind of excited to see what happens with The Repopulation and hoping it will be where I can continue my MMO gaming.  However, it doesn't hurt to look back and wonder as well :)

    As for SWG being dead, well, right before the announcement of its shutting down it had just as many "Extremely Heavy" servers as TOR does now, heh.

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  • ignore_meignore_me Apple Valley, CAPosts: 1,987Member

    Originally posted by Obraik

    Originally posted by Cthulhu23


    Originally posted by Obraik

    This thread has the potential to go very bad, but read it out...

    I think it's pretty hard to deny that TOR's subs are dropping.  How fast is debateable but if one is to trust the data seen at torstatus.net, the numbers are only dropping overall.

    Looking at the TOR forums, alot of the requests are for features that were in SWG and are likely not going to be seen in SWTOR because it's just not that type of game.  Things like more player interaction, explorable worlds, better space, better world pvp, etc.  Those asking for these are unlikely to stick with the game once the novelty of it wears off. 

    However, SWG was that type of game.  I'm well aware that this is just thinking in a "what if" scenario, but if SWG wasn't shut down, those that were not happy with those short commings in TOR could have enjoyed SWG and kept them in LucasArts' revenue.  Instead, they're leaving TOR and LA is losing their money.

    While there are those that like to say that if SWG wasn't shutdown it would be a fairly empty game with TOR around as well.  However, I'm not so sure that would have been the case...

    /facepalm.  

    Let it go, man.  SWG was dying long before TOR was a twinkle in Bioware's eye.  

    I've let it go, I'm kind of excited to see what happens with The Repopulation and hoping it will be where I can continue my MMO gaming.  However, it doesn't hurt to look back and wonder as well :)

    As for SWG being dead, well, right before the announcement of its shutting down it had just as many "Extremely Heavy" servers as TOR does now, heh.

    I have trust issues with the Hero engine now though

    Survivor of the great MMORPG Famine of 2011

  • GeezerGamerGeezerGamer ChairPosts: 5,596Member Uncommon

    There is still a very large demand still around for SWG. Aside from a call to Blizzard to bring back some sort of legacy WoW, I don't think there is another game in the industry with a call to "bring it back" as there is for SWG.

     

    SOE may not have the SW license, but how much would it take to re write SWG? Make some modifications to update the code and use today's technologies,  Also remove the SWG branding and otherwise present a new Sci Fi sandbox? The engine and programming for the most part is done. SoE has it, there is a demand for it. Seriously, why not?

     

    I'd think it would be easy for SoE to clone their own game.

  • ThorkuneThorkune Eastern, KYPosts: 1,830Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Cthulhu23

    Originally posted by Obraik

     

    /facepalm.  

    Let it go, man.  SWG was dying long before TOR was a twinkle in Bioware's eye.  

    I think the dying ended in SWG a couple of years ago and it ended up with a healthy population when it shut down. I preferred SWG over ToR and would love it if it were ever resurrected. I feel that LA made a huge mistake in shutting SWG down since it could have done well as a F2P title. SOE is showing that they know how to do F2P well.

  • MukeMuke BredaPosts: 2,172Member Uncommon

    these days the engine would be horribly outdated, as it couldnt already cope at release, server crashes when 40 vs 40 pvp happened on any given place.

    Don't think that the community would accept a swg release now with that engine, horribly lagging code + outdated graphic engine. Only the diehard swg customers would accept the game, and there weren't enough of them to keep the game going in the end.

    Adds to the fact that many left the game just because the group that was behind it. These days many gamers still won't touch a game that is being hosted by that certain company.

     

    "going into arguments with idiots is a lost cause, it requires you to stoop down to their level and you can't win"

  • ignore_meignore_me Apple Valley, CAPosts: 1,987Member

    Originally posted by GeezerGamer

    There is still a very large demand still around for SWG. Aside from a call to Blizzard to bring back some sort of legacy WoW, I don't think there is another game in the industry with a call to "bring it back" as there is for SWG.

     

    SOE may not have the SW license, but how much would it take to re write SWG? Make some modifications to update the code and use today's technologies,  Also remove the SWG branding and otherwise present a new Sci Fi sandbox? The engine and programming for the most part is done. SoE has it, there is a demand for it. Seriously, why not?

     

    I'd think it would be easy for SoE to clone their own game.

    It's possible SoE could re-negotiate for the licence, but I think your idea is better. Get rid of the branding (and some of the stigma) and go with another developer as long as they preserve the things that were in the game.

    -Persistan worlds with player cities/housing

    -realistic models (no clone wars design)

    -Player driven economy

    -non-combat classes as well a combat classes

    etc.

    Survivor of the great MMORPG Famine of 2011

  • musicmannmusicmann port allen, LAPosts: 1,107Member

    No, shutting down SWG was not LA biggest failure. The biggest was themselves and SOE thinking they could change a already established mmorpg to try and capture the wow crowd.

    All that played way back then already know that the game needed some balancing and some added content thrown in but overall it was damn good SW mmo in the pre-cu days.

     

     

  • ignore_meignore_me Apple Valley, CAPosts: 1,987Member

    Originally posted by musicmann

    No, shutting down SWG was not LA biggest failure. The biggest was themselves and SOE thinking they could change a already established mmorpg to try and capture the wow crowd.

    All that played way back then already know that the game needed some balancing and some added content thrown in but overall it was damn good SW mmo in the pre-cu days.

     

     

    Damn you for making me agree with you

    Survivor of the great MMORPG Famine of 2011

  • jacklojacklo BlackpoolPosts: 570Member

    Originally posted by Muke

    these days the engine would be horribly outdated, as it couldnt already cope at release, server crashes when 40 vs 40 pvp happened on any given place.

    Don't think that the community would accept a swg release now with that engine, horribly lagging code + outdated graphic engine. Only the diehard swg customers would accept the game, and there weren't enough of them to keep the game going in the end.

    Adds to the fact that many left the game just because the group that was behind it. These days many gamers still won't touch a game that is being hosted by that certain company.

     

    "server crashes when 40 vs 40 pvp happened on any given place"...

     

    Really, I don't understand comments like these.

    Server crashes were pretty damn rare. I only saw it happen on major world events such as when Restuss was blown up. There would be literally several hundred players in a small area. I've never known any game since that could cope with that kind of stress, even today.

    SWTOR is worse in that respect and was made when?

    SWG had enough people playing to remain profitable in my opinion. I would welcome it's return.

  • Sora2810Sora2810 New Columbia, PAPosts: 567Member

    I'll never forget my time with SWG. But, I wouldn't play it again as it was. My time in fallen earth and EvE are keeping me content as a 'nicotine patch'.

    Played - M59, EQOA, EQ, EQ2, PS, SWG[Favorite], DAoC, UO, RS, MXO, CoH/CoV, TR, FFXI, FoM, WoW, Eve, Rift, SWTOR, TSW.
    Playing - PS2, AoW, GW2

  • ignore_meignore_me Apple Valley, CAPosts: 1,987Member

    Originally posted by Sora2810

    I'll never forget my time with SWG. But, I wouldn't play it again as it was. My time in fallen earth and EvE are keeping me content as a 'nicotine patch'.

    It's easy to say this though to a hypothetical situation. If it were to be a reality I think many would at least come take a look. Even those who were super pissed about NGE.

    Survivor of the great MMORPG Famine of 2011

  • Panther2103Panther2103 Edmonds, WAPosts: 2,365Member Uncommon

    Well, I did like SWG a lot while I did play it. But it did have a population that wasn't exactly healthy. It had 1 server that was populated and the rest maybe had a dusting of players. People who are upset that it shut down are all the ones who weren't even playing it when it did. It's like walking away from a peice of pizza that you ate half way and didn't plan on eating it later, and coming back and being upset that it's gone because someone threw it away when it started getting moldy.

  • TruthXHurtsTruthXHurts El Do, KSPosts: 1,555Member

    Originally posted by Panther2103

    Well, I did like SWG a lot while I did play it. But it did have a population that wasn't exactly healthy. It had 1 server that was populated and the rest maybe had a dusting of players. People who are upset that it shut down are all the ones who weren't even playing it when it did. It's like walking away from a peice of pizza that you ate half way and didn't plan on eating it later, and coming back and being upset that it's gone because someone threw it away when it started getting moldy.

    Real men eat pizza that has sat out in the box all night.

    "I am not in a server with Gankers...THEY ARE IN A SERVER WITH ME!!!"

  • ToothmanToothman Greenfield, WIPosts: 72Member

    Server crashes were pretty rare.  40 on 40 in Restuss did cause some lag issues and some disconnects for people with less optimal connections.    Right before the killing announcement we regularly had regular fights with around 200 players and while it got really choppy, the fights got done and everyone got all the points they wanted.  Generally on multiple characters.  I'd love to see a SWG reboot but the suits would never admit that they might have made a mistake by sponsoring that pile of vomit that is ToR.

     

     

  • ignore_meignore_me Apple Valley, CAPosts: 1,987Member

    Originally posted by Panther2103

    Well, I did like SWG a lot while I did play it. But it did have a population that wasn't exactly healthy. It had 1 server that was populated and the rest maybe had a dusting of players. People who are upset that it shut down are all the ones who weren't even playing it when it did. It's like walking away from a peice of pizza that you ate half way and didn't plan on eating it later, and coming back and being upset that it's gone because someone threw it away when it started getting moldy.

    I challenge you to find a group of people anywhere who aren't petulant.

    Survivor of the great MMORPG Famine of 2011

  • WhiteLanternWhiteLantern Nevada, MOPosts: 2,732Member Common

    A bigger failure than Jar Jar? Have you watched Phantom Menace?

    I want a mmorpg where people have gone through misery, have gone through school stuff and actually have had sex even. -sagil

  • AntariousAntarious Greenville, SCPosts: 2,802Member

    I don't really see where LA had much control over whether the game shut down or not.

     

    So I guess I'd have to say no.

     

    Its not like they pulled the license...  SOE had a license that extended into 2012 (was mentioned in a few comments by Smedley) when the game was shut down in Dec 2011.

     

    LA can't run the game if SOE doesn't want it running... since SOE owns the actual game (but can't run it without a license obviously).  

     

    SOE still runs The Clone Wars game... so its not like there was a total business seperation between the two companies.  

     

    From a business point of view for LA they want every Star Wars game that can possibly be *live* to be out there.   Simply because of the IP fees they get.   For SOE I don't think there was much "good" for them in running a lightly populated and somewhat older game... with an attatched IP cost.

     

     

     

    Moderator's on this site allow certain posters to create endless troll threads. Yet "warn" people for giving recommendations... account *pending* deletion because.. why bother.

  • Panther2103Panther2103 Edmonds, WAPosts: 2,365Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by ignore_me

    Originally posted by Panther2103

    Well, I did like SWG a lot while I did play it. But it did have a population that wasn't exactly healthy. It had 1 server that was populated and the rest maybe had a dusting of players. People who are upset that it shut down are all the ones who weren't even playing it when it did. It's like walking away from a peice of pizza that you ate half way and didn't plan on eating it later, and coming back and being upset that it's gone because someone threw it away when it started getting moldy.

    I challenge you to find a group of people anywhere who aren't petulant.

    I'm assuming you mean people who were once fans of a game getting upset by a game shutting down, yeah I understand. But people everywhere saw SWG's shutdown coming. Once TOR was announced people knew it was only so much time until the inevitable happened. The issue with that statement in general is people get upset that they lose all of their characters and such, so it's going to cause an uproar even if they don't really care that the game itself is shutting down, more of their time invested being lost, even if they weren't playing it at all for a couple of years. Sure, I was one of those people when the original Lineage got shut down, I lost my characters and gear and all of that, but eventually people have to give it up. The game isn't going to be ressurected, the only hope short of a sequal that won't be anything like the game, would be the emulator. Which isn't too bad, I've used it before and it had like 300 people online or something at the time. 

  • ignore_meignore_me Apple Valley, CAPosts: 1,987Member

    Originally posted by Panther2103

    Originally posted by ignore_me


    Originally posted by Panther2103

    Well, I did like SWG a lot while I did play it. But it did have a population that wasn't exactly healthy. It had 1 server that was populated and the rest maybe had a dusting of players. People who are upset that it shut down are all the ones who weren't even playing it when it did. It's like walking away from a peice of pizza that you ate half way and didn't plan on eating it later, and coming back and being upset that it's gone because someone threw it away when it started getting moldy.

    I challenge you to find a group of people anywhere who aren't petulant.

    I'm assuming you mean people who were once fans of a game getting upset by a game shutting down, yeah I understand. But people everywhere saw SWG's shutdown coming. Once TOR was announced people knew it was only so much time until the inevitable happened. The issue with that statement in general is people get upset that they lose all of their characters and such, so it's going to cause an uproar even if they don't really care that the game itself is shutting down, more of their time invested being lost, even if they weren't playing it at all for a couple of years. Sure, I was one of those people when the original Lineage got shut down, I lost my characters and gear and all of that, but eventually people have to give it up. The game isn't going to be ressurected, the only hope short of a sequal that won't be anything like the game, would be the emulator. Which isn't too bad, I've used it before and it had like 300 people online or something at the time. 

    I mean everyone. It's human nature given any group of people who desire something. I was responding to your pizza analogy (which I think is a good analogy). As for resurrection, who can say? Would a new game that achieved much of what the old one did (or more) be considered a resurrection?

    Survivor of the great MMORPG Famine of 2011

  • Panther2103Panther2103 Edmonds, WAPosts: 2,365Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by ignore_me

    Originally posted by Panther2103


    Originally posted by ignore_me


    Originally posted by Panther2103

    Well, I did like SWG a lot while I did play it. But it did have a population that wasn't exactly healthy. It had 1 server that was populated and the rest maybe had a dusting of players. People who are upset that it shut down are all the ones who weren't even playing it when it did. It's like walking away from a peice of pizza that you ate half way and didn't plan on eating it later, and coming back and being upset that it's gone because someone threw it away when it started getting moldy.

    I challenge you to find a group of people anywhere who aren't petulant.

    I'm assuming you mean people who were once fans of a game getting upset by a game shutting down, yeah I understand. But people everywhere saw SWG's shutdown coming. Once TOR was announced people knew it was only so much time until the inevitable happened. The issue with that statement in general is people get upset that they lose all of their characters and such, so it's going to cause an uproar even if they don't really care that the game itself is shutting down, more of their time invested being lost, even if they weren't playing it at all for a couple of years. Sure, I was one of those people when the original Lineage got shut down, I lost my characters and gear and all of that, but eventually people have to give it up. The game isn't going to be ressurected, the only hope short of a sequal that won't be anything like the game, would be the emulator. Which isn't too bad, I've used it before and it had like 300 people online or something at the time. 

    I mean everyone. It's human nature given any group of people who desire something. I was responding to your pizza analogy (which I think is a good analogy). As for resurrection, who can say? Would a new game that achieved much of what the old one did (or more) be considered a resurrection?

    It really depends on what you consider a ressurection. I would call it a resurgence. But for them to achieve that, it would have to be really similar to the original. But then you have the split, theres the people who liked it Pre NGE, and people who started and liked it after NGE. I wish they would make one that was very similar to either one of those, since both were fun to me. I just don't know who could possibly do that. SOE is very unreliable in terms of developing things that people want, they seem to go with whatever is popular at the moment. 

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